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Roland Scott
Vindicator Corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.10 15:07:14 -
[1] - Quote
Hi
So the Golem has a 10% buff to target painters per marauder skill level. I have always gotten the impression this was a little out of place but it did the job. Now that we have Missile guidance enhancers and computers it would seem more in keeping with the Caldari to have some sort of bonus applying to them instead of the target painters.
Just a thought. |
Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
147
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Posted - 2015.10.10 18:25:28 -
[2] - Quote
Roland Scott wrote:Hi
So the Golem has a 10% buff to target painters per marauder skill level. I have always gotten the impression this was a little out of place but it did the job. Now that we have Missile guidance enhancers and computers it would seem more in keeping with the Caldari to have some sort of bonus applying to them instead of the target painters.
Just a thought.
No. Because the TP bonus is useful for you AND your potential fleetmates, while the MGC/MGE would only apply to you. (Also, doing that would greatly devalue the Raven Navy which only interest is the way better application.)
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Curatores Veritatis Alliance
125
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Posted - 2015.10.10 18:42:36 -
[3] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote: No. Because the TP bonus is useful for you AND your potential fleetmates, while the MGC/MGE would only apply to you. (Also, doing that would greatly devalue the Raven Navy which only interest is the way better application.)
Pretty much this. Also, in some circumstances a TP is way better than a MGC, you just have to do the math.
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
98
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Posted - 2015.10.10 18:43:34 -
[4] - Quote
[quote=Nyalnara No. Because the TP bonus is useful for you AND your potential fleetmates, while the MGC/MGE would only apply to you. (Also, doing that would greatly devalue the Raven Navy which only interest is the way better application.)[/quote]
Marauders are not "natural" fleet ships, they are more suited for solo play (mainly PvE but some few do PvP with them) |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1212
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Posted - 2015.10.10 19:41:41 -
[5] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:Nyalnara wrote: No. Because the TP bonus is useful for you AND your potential fleetmates, while the MGC/MGE would only apply to you. (Also, doing that would greatly devalue the Raven Navy which only interest is the way better application.)
Pretty much this. Also, in some circumstances a TP is way better than a MGC, you just have to do the math.
well the skill train and price difference should be enough too allow them both too be useful, if the golem got an explosion radius bonus or an explosion velocity bonus. that and navy raven is much more mobile than a golem especially one in bastion mode but more mobility could be added too Navy raven aswell.
T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely.
ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats
Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2656
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Posted - 2015.10.10 22:28:25 -
[6] - Quote
I think they should just switch it to a range bonus instead of an amount bonus. It's no good if it can't hit out to cruise missile range. I like to hit my enemies from very, very far away.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
950
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Posted - 2015.10.10 23:29:49 -
[7] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I think they should just switch it to a range bonus instead of an amount bonus. It's no good if it can't hit out to cruise missile range. I like to hit my enemies from very, very far away.
After the upcoming buff to MGCs, they will be close in effectiveness to TPs on a Golem. Reducing bonus in exchange for a range bonus will only makes MGCs shine more.
Also, they're easier because MGCs don't require target swapping. I've already been using them on my Golem, before the MGC buff was even a thought, and they're arguably better than TPs.
I don't think the Golem should be given any bonus to TPs, MGCs, or basic bonuses to missiles.
Instead, I'd rather see the drone bay buffed to 100, and the bw buffed to 50. Now you've got something I can work with. |
Chocolaty Sprogmaster
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2015.10.10 23:31:35 -
[8] - Quote
It should affect both to different degrees to make them both useful, depending on the situation. |
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2015.10.11 00:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
I never understood why Golem has bonus on TPs, this is a minmatar bonus usually. It seems better to get at MGC bonus. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
634
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Posted - 2015.10.11 01:53:26 -
[10] - Quote
Atomeon wrote:I never understood why Golem has bonus on TPs, this is a minmatar bonus usually. It seems better to get at MGC bonus.
Well, for one, MGC's are a fairly recent addition to Eve. The Golem's been around for much longer.
Besides, am I really the only one here that questions this idea based on the realization that OP is essentually asking for on bonus to turn into effectively two? Did we all forget that TP's don't buff missile projection? So, CCP would either conveniently forget that themselves as well and we'd walk away with a much stronger buff than intended, or they'd have to nerf it into the ground to the point that it would serve far less in the way of application. As much as I would love to have 2 forms of application buffs and 2 forms of projection buffs on the Golem given I fly the damned thing, I'll pass I think.
Granted, the current MGC/MGE modules suck right now and could use a boost -- CCP is already about to give them a boost in December. A 10% boost isn't a lot, and may not even be enough for at least one of these module families alone and even less for the other, it's a start at least.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
130
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Posted - 2015.10.11 07:59:48 -
[11] - Quote
Atomeon wrote:I never understood why Golem has bonus on TPs, this is a minmatar bonus usually. It seems better to get at MGC bonus.
Yep, I agree, or give the TPs a range bonus like Reaver said. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
578
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Posted - 2015.10.11 16:12:21 -
[12] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Did we all forget that TP's don't buff missile projection?. TP have never affect that actual max range of a missile so that aspect of "projection" is off the table. TP have never affected the ROF of the launchers so that takes that aspect of "projection" off the table. TP have never affected the max damage that a missile has so that aspect of "projection" is off the table. So this leaves us with the application of damage and TP have always had a serious affect on that.
Since you seem to thnk you are the only one that sees this perhaps you can clarify it so the rest of us can be in on your little secret. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
635
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Posted - 2015.10.11 20:52:13 -
[13] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:Did we all forget that TP's don't buff missile projection?. TP have never affect that actual max range of a missile so that aspect of "projection" is off the table. TP have never affected the ROF of the launchers so that takes that aspect of "projection" off the table. TP have never affected the max damage that a missile has so that aspect of "projection" is off the table. So this leaves us with the application of damage and TP have always had a serious affect on that. Since you seem to thnk you are the only one that sees this perhaps you can clarify it so the rest of us can be in on your little secret.
Uh...TP's don't affect missile projection, they affect missile application?
Since when was that a secret? Pretty sure that's common knowledge.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
151
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Posted - 2015.10.11 23:46:04 -
[14] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:Did we all forget that TP's don't buff missile projection?. TP have never affect that actual max range of a missile so that aspect of "projection" is off the table. TP have never affected the ROF of the launchers so that takes that aspect of "projection" off the table. TP have never affected the max damage that a missile has so that aspect of "projection" is off the table. So this leaves us with the application of damage and TP have always had a serious affect on that. Since you seem to thnk you are the only one that sees this perhaps you can clarify it so the rest of us can be in on your little secret. Uh...TP's don't affect missile projection, they affect missile application? Since when was that a secret? Pretty sure that's common knowledge.
Well, OP seems to not be aware of the fact that bastion module already give way too good projection to the Golem hull, and that it doesn't actually need bigger bonus to that.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
635
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Posted - 2015.10.12 03:07:30 -
[15] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I think they should just switch it to a range bonus instead of an amount bonus. It's no good if it can't hit out to cruise missile range. I like to hit my enemies from very, very far away.
Because I got bored, some numbers with respects to a possible range buff in place of the 10%/level effectiveness buff; Variables "O" and "F" are pretty self-explanatory, representing optimal and falloff ranges respectively.
No Bonus to target painter range... Optimal range = 45Km Falloff range = 90Km O+1F = 135Km O+2F = 225Km
@ 10%/level to target painter range... Optimal range = 67.5Km (up 22.5Km), same as the Hyena without an effectiveness buff Falloff range = 135Km (up 45km) O+1F = 202.5Km (up 67.5Km) O+2F = 337.5Km (up 112.5Km)
@ 10%/level to target painter optimal range only (no falloff buff), so Hyena without effectiveness buff again... Optimal range = 67.5Km (up 22.5Km) Falloff range = 90Km O+1F = 157.5Km (up 22.5Km) O+2F = 247.5Km (up 22.5Km)
@ 7.5%/level to target painter range... Optimal range = 61.875Km (up 16.875Km) Falloff range = 123.75Km (up 33.75km) O+1F = 185.625Km (up 50.625Km) O+2F = 309.375Km (up 84.375Km)
For reference, right now the Golem's locking range is 118.75 with Long Range Targeting maxed, meaning current target painter optimal ranges account for less than half that range at around 38% (assuming I did the math correctly, I'm no arithmetic wizard). Without reducing the buff amount, switching it to a target painter range buff means optimal range would account for nearly 57% locking range. A reduced buff would make the optical ranges just over 52% locking range.
This assumes Meta 4, Faction, and Tech2 TP's with base ranges @ 30Km optimal and 60Km falloff with Frequency Modulation and Long Distance Jamming maxed out. I'm not bored enough for the Tech 1, 'Inception', and other Meta TP's.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1625
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Posted - 2015.10.12 03:29:57 -
[16] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I think they should just switch it to a range bonus instead of an amount bonus. It's no good if it can't hit out to cruise missile range. I like to hit my enemies from very, very far away. I'd rather not lose damage application in the ranges most of my targets actually inhabit, especially considering how rarely they miss in early falloff. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1276
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Posted - 2015.10.14 04:36:11 -
[17] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:Nyalnara wrote: No. Because the TP bonus is useful for you AND your potential fleetmates, while the MGC/MGE would only apply to you. (Also, doing that would greatly devalue the Raven Navy which only interest is the way better application.)
Marauders are not "natural" fleet ships, they are more suited for solo play (mainly PvE but some few do PvP with them)
What are you talking about a fleet built around a marauder core is amazing it's the price that tends to limit the use rather than the ship itself
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
951
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Posted - 2015.10.14 05:02:34 -
[18] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Haatakan Reppola wrote:Nyalnara wrote: No. Because the TP bonus is useful for you AND your potential fleetmates, while the MGC/MGE would only apply to you. (Also, doing that would greatly devalue the Raven Navy which only interest is the way better application.)
Marauders are not "natural" fleet ships, they are more suited for solo play (mainly PvE but some few do PvP with them) What are you talking about a fleet built around a marauder core is amazing it's the price that tends to limit the use rather than the ship itself
A fleet built around a Marauder has an extremely weak point. That Marauder is either an anchor that can't receive any remote assistance, or is extremely weak to ewar if out of bastion. Unless you're speaking of the alliance tournament, in which case, bastion was banned his year and Marauders performed TERRIBLY without it.
As far as small gang pvp, why? You're just going to get a cyno dropped on you. Why even large fleet pvp? You'll just get vollied. The only good use for amMarauder in a fleet is incursions, where their ewar weaknesses make no difference because any target being locked by the NPCs gets jammed, scrammed, webbed, neuted, and whatever else to any ship. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
579
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Posted - 2015.10.14 14:22:45 -
[19] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Sobaan Tali wrote:Did we all forget that TP's don't buff missile projection?. TP have never affect that actual max range of a missile so that aspect of "projection" is off the table. TP have never affected the ROF of the launchers so that takes that aspect of "projection" off the table. TP have never affected the max damage that a missile has so that aspect of "projection" is off the table. So this leaves us with the application of damage and TP have always had a serious affect on that. Since you seem to thnk you are the only one that sees this perhaps you can clarify it so the rest of us can be in on your little secret. Uh...TP's don't affect missile projection, they affect missile application? Since when was that a secret? Pretty sure that's common knowledge. Me thinks you did not read or did not understand and that may be my fault. I was not the one that stated that TP affect missile "projection" Sobann Tali did. I was simply pointing out that TP had no affect on any of those items and so I was wondering how and why Sobaan Tali thought that TP did affect "projection", in fact I still do want to here that explanation since I always thought they affected application.
Moving on and after looking up the definition of "projection" in preparation for this response we have some interesting possibilities. Projection The act of throwing or shooting forward. The act of projecting out from something. The act of expelling or propelling something out. If we consider the idea behind missiles is to put damage on target then based on these an argument could be made that TP do indeed affect projection, in that they allow you to more effectively "project" your damage onto the intended target. Perhaps this is what Sobann Tali was referring to, but I would still like to know.
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