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Bastogne
Caldari Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.17 20:58:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Frezik
Originally by: Bastogne Pods just replace the bridge crew.
Never liked this explanation. Chronicals seem to indicate that all ships (not just frigs) see a significant reduction in crew size over the entire ship. The bridge crew would not make up a significant fraction of the crew on something cruiser-sized or bigger. T2 ships should see even more reductions.
When I say bridge crew, I'm referring to a lot of people. And this would be several shifts of people, enough to cover a 24 hour period. The pod would be replacing actual bridge command crew, your 1st mates & whatnot, entire navigation and cartography staff, your fire direction control staff, communications officers, etc.
I.E. Before pods the captain directs the weapons control officer to target that incoming Angel Nephilim, who would then confirm target lock, meanwhile missiles load targeting data/target telemetry is handed down to the gun crews, captain gives order to fire and command is relayed down.
Now the pod pilot locks the target, targeting data is automatically processed and fed to the weapon systems, which for missiles are fired when the pilot gives the fire command and run off the targetign data loaded into their warheads and their internal guidance systems, or the targeting data is constantly updated and fed to the rail/blaster/howitzer/autocannon/laser crews who begin firing when the pod pilot gives the command, shift targets as he commands etc. Every person involved betwen the captain and the gun crews, or with missiles even the crews, has been taken out of the equation.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.01.21 10:47:00 -
[32]
I agree that's for the command crew, for the actual operation of the ship's systems.
I think there's still some space for management, who have no direct link with the ships systems, but work with the crew.
After all somebody has to sort out the shift rotas, supplies, security (make sure people turn up for their shifts, stop fights between the crew), medical, cargo admin and sorting in larger ships (you're always going to need people who can drive the EVE equivalent of forklift trucks and can tally a list), etc.
After all, what's a pod pilot going to do if a minority of the crew repeatedly say "I can't be arsed to turn up for my shift"? Remotely seal the section of the ship they're in and leave them to starve/open an air lock? Jump out of his pod and go shout at them?
I'd rather have some blokes with big (non-hull penetrating) guns to do that for me.
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Hatra
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2007.01.23 08:10:00 -
[33]
though i don't really have a full opinion...
imagine pilot in farscape (with a few exceptions)
directly control and in tune with the ship. just having a crew 'smooths things' along a little :p
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William Hamilton
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Posted - 2007.01.23 20:43:00 -
[34]
Edited by: William Hamilton on 23/01/2007 20:40:45 Well, if you read the descriptions for the combat boosters they seem to support that the capsule pilot is the only being aboard his ship and is "one with his ship" in a way.
Personally I do beleive in there being a ground crew, but nobody else permanently stationed aboard the ship.
It's all really muddy water if you ask me..
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Discorporation
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.24 16:24:00 -
[35]
Originally by: William Hamilton
It's all really muddy water if you ask me..
No, it isn't.
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Silver Night
Caldari Intergalactic Combined Technologies
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Posted - 2007.01.24 20:21:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Silver Night on 24/01/2007 20:18:34 What we need is a sticky about ship crews, with just links to Jovian Wetgrave, that other chron, and most importantly, Hands of a Killer. I swear there is one of these threads like clockwork, as soon as the old on is a page or two back. --------------
Director. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
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Nachshon
Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.01.26 03:33:00 -
[37]
I'm still a 'crew minimalist' - I think that crews are not on all ships. As I have argued on other threads, thanks to skillbooks, a pod pilot is capable of micro-managing all his ships' systems alone.
Perhaps some pilots use crews to supplement their own skills - maybe a crew mechanic could be introduced, where you buy 'crew' with certain skills, who effectively allow you to act as if you had those skills.
However, many pilots operate their ships without crew. This is especially common in the outer regions, where ships are not expected to have long lifespans.
__________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.26 14:46:00 -
[38]
all ships have crews, BSs large crews. remember that in game ships pop much much faster then they would in a storyline. this is because its what gamers want they want fast kills CS in space, i can imagine things would get boring for most if they where chasing a Rokh around playing "Sink the Bismark" for 12hrs.
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Jr Grae
Gallente House 0f Shadows
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Posted - 2007.01.27 01:15:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jr Grae on 27/01/2007 01:11:55 Just to make a point about Frigates having/not having a crew. If you read Theodicy in the short stories section of the backstory, then you'll read of Rifter pilots not even in pods, and they have a crew that comes along with them, though I think its more of a ground crew traveling in the hold, but it is a crew.
I think its a bit optional in regards to story telling.
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Splunk jamma
Caldari Intel 7
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Posted - 2007.01.28 01:02:00 -
[40]
Yes we have ship crews, but being capsuleers and of an elite standing the people on board our ships are nothing more than the ammunition that feeds the guns and launchers. From a gaming point of view this is why we don't see escape pods ejecting from the ship or have to deal with crew micro management. Just like space it's cold, harsh and unforgiving.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.28 08:23:00 -
[41]
From what I remember of the backstory frigates have no other crew than the pilot. They're a direct descendant of the upsized caldari one-man fighter craft used in the Caldari-Gallente war. For shipsizes larger than frigates (cruisers, transports and battleships) they do need crews. Mostly, I'd think, because of the complexity of their systems.
As for "skillbooks". I've said it many times before. There is a difference between the skill to operate a device and the skill to service, repair or even build that same device. I'm sure any one of you can drive a car or even service it (I'm sure a whole bunch of you are pretty good drivers that can get alot more out of your car than the average "I've just gotten into a car" newbie), that however doesn't make you a mechanic by default.
______________________________________________ -The more it changes, the more it stays the same. Mankind and all its activities. War and Peace, Love and Hate. Ever changing, ever the same. |
Agustus Caesar
Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.29 06:12:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 29/01/2007 06:11:12 Personally I think ships have crews, if nothing else beacuse there's a chronicle stating so; also ships that big are just to sophisticated and complex to just control and repair electronicly. But I also believe there are escape systems for the crew. I mean come on, your telling me that with all the incredible advances in technology they havent invented an escape pod? Hell we basicly have that now! With that in mind i just think its pretty much impossible that ships don't have escape pods for the crews. Now that I think of it here's proof that ships DO have escape pods. Notice that the apoc's crew abandons ships save a skeleton crew. If they had escape pods with non-capsuleer ships then there's no good reason as to why they wouldn't be on capsuleer ships as well.
-Caesar ----------------------------- Unless otherwise stated my opinions don't represent that of my corporation and/or alliance, but unless your retarded, that should go without saying |
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Ginger.
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Posted - 2007.01.29 10:14:00 -
[43]
Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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Yakoff
Star Scream Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.01.29 21:46:00 -
[44]
Well, if ships had crews, then why the heck do I have to train Engineering to Level V. Why not have Scotty trained at V so I don't have to worry about HIS darned engines. And Sulu can focus on weapons systems.
Then I can worry about other critical skills like Charisma, leadership, and getting that beautiful green orion slave girl?
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Marine HK4861
Caldari Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.01.30 08:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Yakoff Well, if ships had crews, then why the heck do I have to train Engineering to Level V. Why not have Scotty trained at V so I don't have to worry about HIS darned engines. And Sulu can focus on weapons systems.
Then I can worry about other critical skills like Charisma, leadership, and getting that beautiful green orion slave girl?
Because the pod pilot takes over all command functions.
On a normal naval ship, the captain gives a command, which is relayed to the appropriate chief, which is then passed down to the team in charge of that system and finally relayed to the weapons team. Then the command is relayed back up as confirmation that they heard it correctly.
My favourite example: Captain: Target that raven! Weapons officer: Target that raven! Gunner: Target which raven, sir? Weapons officer: Target which raven sir? Captain: *Points at the screen* That one! Weapons officer: The one by the ruined station! Gunner: Targeting raven, sir! Weapons officer: Targetting raven, sir!
Compare that to the pod pilot's mental equivalent of F1, F2, F3...
Eve crews are there for all the mundane stuff, clearing turret jams, reloading weapons, organising the cargo, cleaning the ship, etc.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.30 15:20:00 -
[46]
escape pods wouldnt be seen as they are too small remember we can barely see a drone if not for the overview. if drones didnt have that little X in space you wouldnt even know they where orbiting you. our pods are also infact oversized so they can be seen for gameplay(when seen out of a ship in space the pod looks big enough it shouldnt fit into a condor).
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Mamarto
Minmatar Space Raiders
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Posted - 2007.01.30 17:02:00 -
[47]
Congratulations to Feral Karkassia for being the first to get a clear no-nonsense dev reply in a ships crew thread. :)
Good to finally have the matter settled for future discussions.
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Ceanthar Cerbera
Minmatar Lone Gunmen Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.01.30 17:14:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 30/01/2007 17:11:35 from the ship comparison charts you can see that a battleship is aprox 500-800 metres long and about 100-200 metres high making them quite capable of holding quite a few people. A typical frig is something like 50 mtres long. A pod has 1000m3 volume making the radius of the pod (qassuming its a sphere) around 6 metres.
I seem to have read somewhere that the pod is 20metres in diameter wich seem a bit strange since it then would take up more than half the space of an frigate. But if so i guess that settles it as far as crews in frigs go. Cruisers are something like 100-200 metres long, a battlecruiser 300-400. So it makes it reasonable to think they should have some 50 odd crew. A carrier seem to be twice the size of battleships (around 1,5km) and dread around twice the carrier, the mothership somewhere inbetween that.
The Iowa class battleships of US navy is about 270m long and have a crew of 1800 people.
Taking into concern better technology and the fact that most of the ship is run by the pod pilot lets say a ship of that sice (comparable to a cruiser or battlecruiser of eve) have something like 900 people. Lets say 400 for a cruiser and 900 for the BC. Scaling that to battleships makes them have around 1800 people, carriers 3600 and a dread 7000 people.
Of coruse nothing says crew count should scale linear but it should place it in the ballpark. And the chronicles seem to support something of a thousand people on a battleship. ----------------------------------------- For the liberation and safety of the Matari people! |
Ceanthar Cerbera
Minmatar Lone Gunmen Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.01.30 20:08:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 30/01/2007 20:05:47 According to the chart the typhoon is 770m long, raven 600 and the apoc and mega a wopping 1400m long. Thats right the apoc is almos the same length as a nidhoggur and the same length as the smalles carrier, the chimera.
Whats most strange is the size of the pod and the size of some frigs. the volume of the pod is 1000m3 making the diameter around 12m but that would make it bigger than frigs like the slahser and reaper or even the rifter(wich is around 6m high)
whats even more odd is the size of the ships ingame. the carriers are around 3/4-1/2 the size that the ship comparison suggest. After doing some comparison of ships like the typhoon and the apoc it seems they have proper size relative eachothers.
The Naglfar according to the chart is 4,5km long. around 6 times the lenght of the typhoon.
Another strange thing is that the caldari have some of the smallest ships in the chart. Raven is 600m long but then again its about the same width. But how they came to be the heaviest ships is a mystery only solve by the assumption that other bigger ships like the apoc have more inside space (are less dense)
edit. but then again this thread isnt about the size but anyway. ----------------------------------------- For the liberation and safety of the Matari people! |
Narita Townshend
VSP Corp. R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.01.31 10:46:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Narita Townshend on 31/01/2007 10:43:19 Random point
For those who use evemon, if you look at the stats listed, theres a stat listed as "max passengers" I've thought that thats the max possible crew
I.e. a condor has 8 max passengers, raven has about 1000, pheonix has about 999, Titan has 1500
May be not exact numbers, but another thing to ponder in this puzzle
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Ceanthar Cerbera
Minmatar Lone Gunmen Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.01.31 11:51:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Narita Townshend Edited by: Narita Townshend on 31/01/2007 10:43:19 Random point
For those who use evemon, if you look at the stats listed, theres a stat listed as "max passengers" I've thought that thats the max possible crew
I.e. a condor has 8 max passengers, raven has about 1000, pheonix has about 999, Titan has 1500
May be not exact numbers, but another thing to ponder in this puzzle
could also mean passenger besides the crew ----------------------------------------- For the liberation and safety of the Matari people! |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.31 14:19:00 -
[52]
Quote: The Iowa class battleships of US navy is about 270m long and have a crew of 1800 people.
of course the Iowa class hax with over 50 high slots and one hell of a projectile bonus.
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Wanoah
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.01 12:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ceanthar Cerbera
Originally by: Narita Townshend Edited by: Narita Townshend on 31/01/2007 10:43:19 Random point
For those who use evemon, if you look at the stats listed, theres a stat listed as "max passengers" I've thought that thats the max possible crew
I.e. a condor has 8 max passengers, raven has about 1000, pheonix has about 999, Titan has 1500
May be not exact numbers, but another thing to ponder in this puzzle
could also mean passenger besides the crew
There were probably going to be passenger courier missions, similar to those in Elite. At some point, they must have decided to drop that and just stick passengers in the cargo hold. There were also going to be special containers for carrying hazardous materials in your cargo. Confusingly, when I first started playing, the item descriptions for things like Toxic Waste still stated that the special containers were needed, even though they had never been put into the game.
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Taedrin
Gallente The Last Ravens
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Posted - 2007.02.02 23:36:00 -
[54]
Here's some food for thought... where does the crew go when you self destruct and/or eject?
I can just imagine it now:
"Alright guys, time for our tri-monthly insurance scam. Abandon ship."
"But... we don't have escape pods like you!"
"Yeah, good thing too. It would suck if there were any witnesses."
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Nachshon
Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.03 22:44:00 -
[55]
My character would not take on a crew if he could avoid it. The proof lies in the names of his ships.
My character always names his main ship "Jerusalem". Each ship named Jerusalem has died a violent death. Jerusalem I (Merlin-class frigate): Destroyed on a Worlds Collide mission. Jerusalem II (Merlin-class frigate): Destroyed by rats. Jerusalem III (Merlin-class frigate): Destroyed while providing escort to a miner by a pirate trying out his new battlecruiser. Jerusalem IV (Caracal-class cruiser): Destroyed by pirate in a Stabber (Minmatar cruiser) Jerusalem V (Caracal-class cruiser): Destroyed by sentry guns Jerusalem VI (Caracal-class cruiser): Destroyed by pirate in a dreadnought Jerusalem VII (Manticore-class stealth bomber): Destroyed by POS defense batteries when I accidentally warped right into them.
Consequently, signing on as his crew is a form of suicide, unless there are escape pods.
__________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
Zephyrys
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Posted - 2007.02.05 19:54:00 -
[56]
I look at it in the Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda sense..
The Pod (us) are the Ships AI's. We control all aspects of the fighting and defense..There are crews but they are symbolic and do the drudge work.. mucking out my intakes.. cleaning my manifolds.. counting my ammo stores..
There has to be crews.. afterall.. who builds a battleship with so many windows but noone to look out them?
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Frightspear
5 November
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Posted - 2007.02.05 22:22:00 -
[57]
If there's any topic that keeps appearing, this has to be it. Please CCP, add some crew stats to your ship data!
In the meantime, check out some of these old pics LINKS.
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Bastogne
Caldari Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.05 23:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ginger. Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
Do people just not see this? Seriously sticky this and be done with it.
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Arbelia Amarsa
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Posted - 2007.02.06 09:11:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Arbelia Amarsa on 06/02/2007 09:12:32 Edited by: Arbelia Amarsa on 06/02/2007 09:08:08 There is a mission (lvl 1 worlds collide i think) where you rescue crew of a heron frigate, there are 10 men in that crew when you pick them up (maybe 20 cant remember) so that show you there can be crews for frigates too. It all just depends on the pilot, how you outfit the ship, technology etc i think. Even in modern navies not every ship has same compliment.
I am not a big fan of the pod pilot thing. I like to think my char is using a standard bridge, has a crew and is connected to the ship through a helmet or something.
Crew size rough guestemates
Frigate 5-20 men Destroyer 40-100 men Cruiser 50-400 men Battlecruiser/assaultships 150-1000+ men Battleships 1000-8000+ men Carriers 8000+ men Titans few hundred thousand to million men
I think escape pods for crew depend on the ships owner. Amarr may use slave men for crew in which case they dont need escape pods, maybe just for officers. CAldari may equip escape pods for crew but it would be costly etc etc.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Worms Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:26:00 -
[60]
i think it depends on if its a pod ship or not. most ships in the galaxy are tradital crewed starships. however id say only NPCs are dumb due to AI programing. id imagine in lore while a pod flown ship is better a good pilot still wouldnt consider a normal crewed ship of the line easy prey.
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