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Feral Karkassia Minmatar Singularity Trafficers	Posted - 2006.12.26 14:52:00 - [1] I read an Eve chronicle about a man who signed up as a crewmember on a battleship. He was worried, knowing that only the pilot had a pod, that if the ship were destroyed, everyone on board would die. The scientific article about the clones and capsules, on the other hand, seems to indicate that capsules made crews obsolete--something about the pod-pilot being able to micro-manage every detail of the ship's operations. I remember reading, also, that small frigates like the Rifter (I think was the example) always operated with just one pilot. So which is it-- 1. Pod pilots are the only people on board, and only in ships not fitted for capsules are there crews. 2. Pod pilots are the only people on board in small ships, and have scaled crew complements to fit larger ships. Either way it also mentions that the ships already in existence were modified for capsules, so I guess things like windows are purely for these crews. Please, 1 or 2? Please, make the Wolf blue again!!!
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.26 16:09:00 - [2] Samll frigates-Just the pod, larger frigs have 2-3 man crews. Cruiser crews number in the hundreds, battleships in the thousands. Pods just replace the bridge crew.
Feral Karkassia Minmatar Singularity Trafficers	Posted - 2006.12.26 17:56:00 - [3] Cool, that's good to know. Thanks. Please, make the Wolf blue again!!!
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.12.27 00:57:00 - [4] i think the kestrel is one of the few frigates with a small crew. infact outside of frigates for the size of our ships the crew numbers are about accurate, an RL Battleship of the Iowa Class had a 2700 member crew and was only 270m bow to stern. an EVE BS has twice that for a beam of 1km. not bad when you think about it.
Feral Karkassia Minmatar Singularity Trafficers	Posted - 2006.12.27 03:38:00 - [5] Edited by: Feral Karkassia on 27/12/2006 03:41:17 Edited for early-morning idiocy. Please, make the Wolf blue again!!!
Mephesto Nizal	Posted - 2006.12.27 19:06:00 - [6] hehehe, the day our characters are able to walk on stations, is the day your chief engineer will walk up and punch you in the nose for almost getting killed by some pirate.
Feral Karkassia Minmatar Singularity Trafficers	Posted - 2006.12.27 19:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Mephesto Nizal hehehe, the day our characters are able to walk on stations, is the day your chief engineer will walk up and punch you in the nose for almost getting killed by some pirate. "You idiot, what's wrong with you!?" "Yeah, that was cool right?" "No, it wasn't! That was four hundred people that almost died so you could grab that stupid afterburner I from the wreckage!" "Yeah, awesome right?" "This is where pirates come from." Please, make the Wolf blue again!!!
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.27 22:18:00 - [8] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i think the kestrel is one of the few frigates with a small crew. infact outside of frigates for the size of our ships the crew numbers are about accurate, an RL Battleship of the Iowa Class had a 2700 member crew and was only 270m bow to stern. an EVE BS has twice that for a beam of 1km. not bad when you think about it. Of course an EVE battleship is quite alot more advanced than an Iowa class battleship, and with a corresponding degree of automatation. The EVE battleships are pretty much to the Iowa class battleships as the Iowa class ships are to Greek triremes.
Crys Steele Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.28 11:33:00 - [9] Edited by: Crys Steele on 28/12/2006 11:35:09 This has always made me think since I started. You are always refered to in game as a 'Pilot' by NPCs and what not, but I personally prefere to think of my Avatar as the Captain of his own ship with crewmen that do the work for him. (From an RP and In Character point of view) Now then, im willing to believe that ships have facilities that perhaps hook up a single person neurologically to a ship who would micro manage the entire ship through his own head, but personally, I prefere the more rough and tumble crewmen feel. My Character has a Comorant and the Bridge on a Comorant can be ovbiously seen in the Middle of the ship (near th eback) by the largeish windows, which kind of give off a rough idea of the size of the ship, compared to the size of people. This would make me guestimate that a Destroyer could hold a crew of about 50-60 people. This is how I operate and I wouldnt want to think of it any other way. So in short, I choose number 2. 2. Pod pilots are the only people on board in small ships, and have scaled crew complements to fit larger ships.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.12.28 19:31:00 - [10] i think we are pilots as we also man the helm and in ship terms i think that makes you a pilot.
Nachshon Caldari Tyrfing Securities	Posted - 2006.12.28 23:32:00 - [11] What I have always believed is that the capsuleer is the only person on his ship. He has all sorts of automated equipment on board to do his bidding. Capsule technology allows you to control every detail of the ship, but you need skillbooks to do it effectively - why else do capsuleers need such detailed knowledge of ship systems? Having 3 ranks in Engineering does not mean that you have a cursory knowledge of power systems. It means that you know a lot about power systems. With 3 ranks in Engineering, you are qualified to be an engineer on a crewed ship. Four ranks, you are fit to serve as chief engineer on a battleship. Five ranks, you're Scotty's equal when it comes to power systems. To me, this makes more roleplaying sense. Capsuleers change ships regularly. This would not be so easy to do with a crew in tow.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.29 14:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Nachshon He has all sorts of automated equipment on board to do his bidding. Capsule technology allows you to control every detail of the ship, but you need skillbooks to do it effectively - why else do capsuleers need such detailed knowledge of ship systems? Having 3 ranks in Engineering does not mean that you have a cursory knowledge of power systems. It means that you know a lot about power systems. With 3 ranks in Engineering, you are qualified to be an engineer on a crewed ship. Four ranks, you are fit to serve as chief engineer on a battleship. Five ranks, you're Scotty's equal when it comes to power systems. To me, this makes more roleplaying sense. Capsuleers change ships regularly. This would not be so easy to do with a crew in tow. Personally I think you misunderstand (that's just my opinion though). I'd say that Engineering, Electronics etc is not practical knowledge of Fusion reactors, warp drives. It's theoretical knowledge which includes the knowledge of how to optimize systems and how to control such systems in an optimal way...and that "skillbooks" is more of a sort of hypnotic programming package, or maybe even a slow-rearrangement of neural pathways in such a way that you innately understand how to set your systems to get the maximum effect. This explains how you're able to learn level 5 engineering in less than 2 weeks (though that is more of a meta-gaming issue). As for a crew. You don't have one "in tow". I'd say a part of the "assembling" in stations is hiring a suitable crew. Beyond that I'd say that there would be a great deal of standardization between the empires. Besides. Even Story Canon(Hands of a killer) states that ships do have crews.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.12.29 15:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Nachshon What I have always believed is that the capsuleer is the only person on his ship. He has all sorts of automated equipment on board to do his bidding. Capsule technology allows you to control every detail of the ship, but you need skillbooks to do it effectively - why else do capsuleers need such detailed knowledge of ship systems? Having 3 ranks in Engineering does not mean that you have a cursory knowledge of power systems. It means that you know a lot about power systems. With 3 ranks in Engineering, you are qualified to be an engineer on a crewed ship. Four ranks, you are fit to serve as chief engineer on a battleship. Five ranks, you're Scotty's equal when it comes to power systems. To me, this makes more roleplaying sense. Capsuleers change ships regularly. This would not be so easy to do with a crew in tow. i tend to think each ship would have a crew, as different ship types would need differently trained crews. a crew on a Badger Mark II isnt going to have the same training as those on a Raven.
Nachshon Caldari Tyrfing Securities	Posted - 2006.12.29 19:32:00 - [14] After reading the chronicles, I may have to revise my opinions. It still makes more sense to me that capsuleer-piloted ships have no crew, but that EVE chronicle is something of a sticking point. Perhaps crews are optional - a capsuleer may hire them or he may not. That would be decent for roleplaying. On some ships, a capsuleer may state that he has a crew. My ship, I don't need no stinking crew. I can maintain my own ship, thank you very much.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.30 04:38:00 - [15] I tend to believe that despite what that one chronicle said, the loss of all of the crew on a battleship is a relatively rare occurrence and that our ships would in fact have a quite a large number of crew escape systems, allowing most of the crew to survive ship destruction each time. I wrote a story about this a while back that I posted here, where basically the ship's bunks and off-duty quarters were safe rooms with small warp drives that jetted out from the ship if it went into structure and were recovered if it survived. On-duty crew needed to dive towards other safe rooms and escape pods to get away though, so they always represented the majority of deaths. When you consider that most ships in EVE aren't insta-popped, this gives the crew plenty of time to escape most of the time. Possibly not in a fleet battle though.
Yoshito Sanders Amarr Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.12.30 06:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Nachshon After reading the chronicles, I may have to revise my opinions. It still makes more sense to me that capsuleer-piloted ships have no crew, but that EVE chronicle is something of a sticking point. Perhaps crews are optional - a capsuleer may hire them or he may not. That would be decent for roleplaying. On some ships, a capsuleer may state that he has a crew. My ship, I don't need no stinking crew. I can maintain my own ship, thank you very much. No you can't. What happens when a gun jams? What happens when there's a power surge in a critical system that needs to be repaired? What happens when a million other unpredictable small things go wrong on your ship that require human intuition and creativity to fix? You're stuck in your pod, it's not like you can pop out, run down to the warp drive, and fix the small ***** in the casing while you're moving through low sec space. That's what the crew is for.
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.30 11:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Nachshon After reading the chronicles, I may have to revise my opinions. It still makes more sense to me that capsuleer-piloted ships have no crew, but that EVE chronicle is something of a sticking point. Perhaps crews are optional - a capsuleer may hire them or he may not. That would be decent for roleplaying. On some ships, a capsuleer may state that he has a crew. My ship, I don't need no stinking crew. I can maintain my own ship, thank you very much. It's funny that I wrote that piece to stop these discussions and people still refuse to believe that capsule pilots are vicious killers with no regard for human life :\
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.30 11:56:00 - [18] Originally by: James Duar I tend to believe that despite what that one chronicle said, the loss of all of the crew on a battleship is a relatively rare occurrence and that our ships would in fact have a quite a large number of crew escape systems, allowing most of the crew to survive ship destruction each time. Ye, good luck being stranded in YZ-LQL with no habited planet around for lightyears tho :)
Augiro	Posted - 2006.12.30 11:57:00 - [19] Originally by: James Duar I tend to believe that despite what that one chronicle said, the loss of all of the crew on a battleship is a relatively rare occurrence and that our ships would in fact have a quite a large number of crew escape systems, allowing most of the crew to survive ship destruction each time. I wrote a story about this a while back that I posted here, where basically the ship's bunks and off-duty quarters were safe rooms with small warp drives that jetted out from the ship if it went into structure and were recovered if it survived. On-duty crew needed to dive towards other safe rooms and escape pods to get away though, so they always represented the majority of deaths. When you consider that most ships in EVE aren't insta-popped, this gives the crew plenty of time to escape most of the time. Possibly not in a fleet battle though. I imagine everything in EVE is sped up, so that 3-4 second journey from entering structure to pop is actually a several minute long ordeal. While not enough for all crewmen to get to the escape pods, I'm sure a sizable number would make it out. At that point they're on their own as to establishing leadership and getting back to safe territory. But one thing's for sure, the ships have crews (supported by the chronicles, and the visuals on the ships themselves). It'd be interesting if this was incorporated somehow into the gameplay, like with crew management or having crews as another resource 'resource' like tritanium or something else entirely. Is this in the pipe?
Nachshon Caldari Tyrfing Securities	Posted - 2006.12.30 19:07:00 - [20] What happens when a missile launcher jams? I activate an appropriate maintainance bot and repair the thing by remote. Power surge in the engine core? Pfft. I didn't get 5 ranks in Engineering for nothing. I tap into the power grid, and divert power as needed.
Yoshito Sanders Amarr Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2006.12.30 22:20:00 - [21] Ok. Now, do all of that at the same time, while keeping your ships shields online, aiming and firing your guns/weapons, keeping those hardeners going, toggling your booster, locking new enemies, and doing all the other stuff you need to do while you're in the middle of combat.
Nachshon Caldari Tyrfing Securities	Posted - 2006.12.30 22:26:00 - [22] Edited by: Nachshon on 30/12/2006 22:27:24 That is the miracle of capsule technology - you can do that with a thought.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.31 03:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Discorporation Originally by: James Duar I tend to believe that despite what that one chronicle said, the loss of all of the crew on a battleship is a relatively rare occurrence and that our ships would in fact have a quite a large number of crew escape systems, allowing most of the crew to survive ship destruction each time. Ye, good luck being stranded in YZ-LQL with no habited planet around for lightyears tho :) Every system has stargates though, and stargates almost certainly have some kind of crew (the structures themselves have windows on them), so I imagine you warp to either a gate or to a station.
Feral Karkassia Minmatar Singularity Trafficers	Posted - 2006.12.31 08:47:00 - [24] I think if people were ejecting by the hundreds or even the thousands, we'd see it; after all, ten Prisoners sit there screaming in a cargo can until you pick them up, why would your own ship's crew become invisible? Anyway, that Eve chronicle does make it pretty clear, and I imagine that during a fight where your ship is taken into structure (and you see structure fires, for example) many would die anyway. So as far as crew death? Yeah, I think it happens. I just wanted to know if there was a crew, most of the time. :P With the fiction I'm writing now, I've made it so that if the pod is damaged and the capsuleer is still on-board and hasn't self-destructed, or if the ship is older and not converted, one can fly it like a "normal" captain, i.e. not in a pod. There's a computerized interface, then, and it still works faster than giving voice commands, but not as fast as a pod-pilot's work. Please, make the Wolf blue again!!!
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.31 11:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Feral Karkassia I think if people were ejecting by the hundreds or even the thousands, we'd see it; after all, ten Prisoners sit there screaming in a cargo can until you pick them up, why would your own ship's crew become invisible? 'Coz of the way the game is designed (lag, etc). Fiction != ingame Originally by: Feral Karkassia With the fiction I'm writing now, I've made it so that if the pod is damaged and the capsuleer is still on-board and hasn't self-destructed, or if the ship is older and not converted, one can fly it like a "normal" captain, i.e. not in a pod. There's a computerized interface, then, and it still works faster than giving voice commands, but not as fast as a pod-pilot's work. There's a little problem there. The pod interface eliminated the need for command crews and such, being a direct interface into the ship. That's why pod piloted ships have less crew. Any sane capsule pilot wouldn't even have his ship built with command crews in mind (certainly not TII pilots). If you decide to hire the crew members that can do your work for you, you're facing a pretty big re-build of your ship (which wouldn't only have pilot interfaces but secondary sub-systems for 'normal' travel) and more costs. A capsuleer'd never stand for that :D
Benin Vivar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.07 00:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Feral Karkassia With the fiction I'm writing now, I've made it so that if the pod is damaged and the capsuleer is still on-board and hasn't self-destructed, or if the ship is older and not converted, one can fly it like a "normal" captain, i.e. not in a pod. There's a computerized interface, then, and it still works faster than giving voice commands, but not as fast as a pod-pilot's work. Additionally, I beleive I read in one of the chronicles that the reason pod-clones are so reliable is that the minute a pod is breached in any way the pilot is injected with a poison and a scan of his or her brain is taken and then transferred to a clone. If your pod was damaged while you were in it you're probably going to wake up a couple systems away. Or is that what you were referring to when you posted "and hasn't self-destructed"?
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Feral Karkassia With the fiction I'm writing now, I've made it so that if the pod is damaged and the capsuleer is still on-board and hasn't self-destructed, or if the ship is older and not converted, one can fly it like a "normal" captain, i.e. not in a pod. There's a computerized interface, then, and it still works faster than giving voice commands, but not as fast as a pod-pilot's work. I assume you mean the pod pilot leaves his capsule so he can use the ship's computerised interface? Not a good idea. If the ship is then subsequently destroyed, then the pilot's consciousness cannot be transferred efficiently and so the pilot then wakes up in his medical clone, the clone would be from when he last updated. Given that a proper mind copy has a very good chance of turning the person into a vegetable, the clone would be a low quality personality copy from the time of update. In theory, you would lose all memories since you last updated and you could lose some memories you had even at the time of the update. Note I said memory, not just skill training. Losing a part of who you are is somewhat more important than some artifical skill software that's been uploaded into your head.
Frezik Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:23:00 - [28] Originally by: Bastogne Pods just replace the bridge crew. Never liked this explanation. Chronicals seem to indicate that all ships (not just frigs) see a significant reduction in crew size over the entire ship. The bridge crew would not make up a significant fraction of the crew on something cruiser-sized or bigger. T2 ships should see even more reductions.
Feral Karkassia Minmatar Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:07:00 - [29] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Feral Karkassia With the fiction I'm writing now, I've made it so that if the pod is damaged and the capsuleer is still on-board and hasn't self-destructed, or if the ship is older and not converted, one can fly it like a "normal" captain, i.e. not in a pod. There's a computerized interface, then, and it still works faster than giving voice commands, but not as fast as a pod-pilot's work. I assume you mean the pod pilot leaves his capsule so he can use the ship's computerised interface? Not a good idea. If the ship is then subsequently destroyed, then the pilot's consciousness cannot be transferred efficiently and so the pilot then wakes up in his medical clone, the clone would be from when he last updated. Given that a proper mind copy has a very good chance of turning the person into a vegetable, the clone would be a low quality personality copy from the time of update. In theory, you would lose all memories since you last updated and you could lose some memories you had even at the time of the update. Note I said memory, not just skill training. Losing a part of who you are is somewhat more important than some artifical skill software that's been uploaded into your head. Actually, his consciousness would not be transferred at all--he would be dead, since it's the pod that broadcasts his memories. It IS a bad idea. :P But for fiction, it serves its purpose nicely--because if he is unable to operate from the (malfunctioning!) pod, he has a backup system that works nicely for his interactions with a crew. Please, make the Wolf's propulsion trails blue again!!!
Nardon Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Benin Vivar Additionally, I beleive I read in one of the chronicles that the reason pod-clones are so reliable is that the minute a pod is breached in any way the pilot is injected with a poison and a scan of his or her brain is taken and then transferred to a clone. If your pod was damaged while you were in it you're probably going to wake up a couple systems away. Or is that what you were referring to when you posted "and hasn't self-destructed"? While the crew suffers a grim fate the pod pilot just takes the fast lane to oblivion. Pretty cowardly behaviour, don't you think? ;) After all the scanner should have done all the work before the toxin is even going to affect the brain. Otherwise you might wake with your brain in panic mode. :P Just for the record I don't like the idea of crewed ships in eve. Though arguing against crews seems sacrosanct as the prime fiction states otherwise.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Frezik Originally by: Bastogne Pods just replace the bridge crew. Never liked this explanation. Chronicals seem to indicate that all ships (not just frigs) see a significant reduction in crew size over the entire ship. The bridge crew would not make up a significant fraction of the crew on something cruiser-sized or bigger. T2 ships should see even more reductions. When I say bridge crew, I'm referring to a lot of people. And this would be several shifts of people, enough to cover a 24 hour period. The pod would be replacing actual bridge command crew, your 1st mates & whatnot, entire navigation and cartography staff, your fire direction control staff, communications officers, etc. I.E. Before pods the captain directs the weapons control officer to target that incoming Angel Nephilim, who would then confirm target lock, meanwhile missiles load targeting data/target telemetry is handed down to the gun crews, captain gives order to fire and command is relayed down. Now the pod pilot locks the target, targeting data is automatically processed and fed to the weapon systems, which for missiles are fired when the pilot gives the fire command and run off the targetign data loaded into their warheads and their internal guidance systems, or the targeting data is constantly updated and fed to the rail/blaster/howitzer/autocannon/laser crews who begin firing when the pod pilot gives the command, shift targets as he commands etc. Every person involved betwen the captain and the gun crews, or with missiles even the crews, has been taken out of the equation.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.01.21 10:47:00 - [32] I agree that's for the command crew, for the actual operation of the ship's systems. I think there's still some space for management, who have no direct link with the ships systems, but work with the crew. After all somebody has to sort out the shift rotas, supplies, security (make sure people turn up for their shifts, stop fights between the crew), medical, cargo admin and sorting in larger ships (you're always going to need people who can drive the EVE equivalent of forklift trucks and can tally a list), etc. After all, what's a pod pilot going to do if a minority of the crew repeatedly say "I can't be arsed to turn up for my shift"? Remotely seal the section of the ship they're in and leave them to starve/open an air lock? Jump out of his pod and go shout at them? I'd rather have some blokes with big (non-hull penetrating) guns to do that for me.
Hatra Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.01.23 08:10:00 - [33] though i don't really have a full opinion... imagine pilot in farscape (with a few exceptions) directly control and in tune with the ship. just having a crew 'smooths things' along a little :p
William Hamilton	Posted - 2007.01.23 20:43:00 - [34] Edited by: William Hamilton on 23/01/2007 20:40:45 Well, if you read the descriptions for the combat boosters they seem to support that the capsule pilot is the only being aboard his ship and is "one with his ship" in a way. Personally I do beleive in there being a ground crew, but nobody else permanently stationed aboard the ship. It's all really muddy water if you ask me..
Discorporation Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:24:00 - [35] Originally by: William Hamilton It's all really muddy water if you ask me.. No, it isn't.
Silver Night Caldari Intergalactic Combined Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.24 20:21:00 - [36] Edited by: Silver Night on 24/01/2007 20:18:34 What we need is a sticky about ship crews, with just links to Jovian Wetgrave, that other chron, and most importantly, Hands of a Killer. I swear there is one of these threads like clockwork, as soon as the old on is a page or two back. -------------- Director. GLS Mr. State Caldari Patriot. Murderer of (his own) Frigates.
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.01.26 03:33:00 - [37] I'm still a 'crew minimalist' - I think that crews are not on all ships. As I have argued on other threads, thanks to skillbooks, a pod pilot is capable of micro-managing all his ships' systems alone. Perhaps some pilots use crews to supplement their own skills - maybe a crew mechanic could be introduced, where you buy 'crew' with certain skills, who effectively allow you to act as if you had those skills. However, many pilots operate their ships without crew. This is especially common in the outer regions, where ships are not expected to have long lifespans. __________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.26 14:46:00 - [38] all ships have crews, BSs large crews. remember that in game ships pop much much faster then they would in a storyline. this is because its what gamers want they want fast kills CS in space, i can imagine things would get boring for most if they where chasing a Rokh around playing "Sink the Bismark" for 12hrs.
Jr Grae Gallente House 0f Shadows	Posted - 2007.01.27 01:15:00 - [39] Edited by: Jr Grae on 27/01/2007 01:11:55 Just to make a point about Frigates having/not having a crew. If you read Theodicy in the short stories section of the backstory, then you'll read of Rifter pilots not even in pods, and they have a crew that comes along with them, though I think its more of a ground crew traveling in the hold, but it is a crew. I think its a bit optional in regards to story telling.
Splunk jamma Caldari Intel 7	Posted - 2007.01.28 01:02:00 - [40] Yes we have ship crews, but being capsuleers and of an elite standing the people on board our ships are nothing more than the ammunition that feeds the guns and launchers. From a gaming point of view this is why we don't see escape pods ejecting from the ship or have to deal with crew micro management. Just like space it's cold, harsh and unforgiving.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.28 08:23:00 - [41] From what I remember of the backstory frigates have no other crew than the pilot. They're a direct descendant of the upsized caldari one-man fighter craft used in the Caldari-Gallente war. For shipsizes larger than frigates (cruisers, transports and battleships) they do need crews. Mostly, I'd think, because of the complexity of their systems. As for "skillbooks". I've said it many times before. There is a difference between the skill to operate a device and the skill to service, repair or even build that same device. I'm sure any one of you can drive a car or even service it (I'm sure a whole bunch of you are pretty good drivers that can get alot more out of your car than the average "I've just gotten into a car" newbie), that however doesn't make you a mechanic by default. ______________________________________________ -The more it changes, the more it stays the same. Mankind and all its activities. War and Peace, Love and Hate. Ever changing, ever the same.
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.29 06:12:00 - [42] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 29/01/2007 06:11:12 Personally I think ships have crews, if nothing else beacuse there's a chronicle stating so; also ships that big are just to sophisticated and complex to just control and repair electronicly. But I also believe there are escape systems for the crew. I mean come on, your telling me that with all the incredible advances in technology they havent invented an escape pod? Hell we basicly have that now! With that in mind i just think its pretty much impossible that ships don't have escape pods for the crews. Now that I think of it here's proof that ships DO have escape pods. Notice that the apoc's crew abandons ships save a skeleton crew. If they had escape pods with non-capsuleer ships then there's no good reason as to why they wouldn't be on capsuleer ships as well. -Caesar ----------------------------- Unless otherwise stated my opinions don't represent that of my corporation and/or alliance, but unless your retarded, that should go without saying

Ginger.	Posted - 2007.01.29 10:14:00 - [43] Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.

Yakoff Star Scream Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.29 21:46:00 - [44] Well, if ships had crews, then why the heck do I have to train Engineering to Level V. Why not have Scotty trained at V so I don't have to worry about HIS darned engines. And Sulu can focus on weapons systems. Then I can worry about other critical skills like Charisma, leadership, and getting that beautiful green orion slave girl?
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.01.30 08:11:00 - [45] Originally by: Yakoff Well, if ships had crews, then why the heck do I have to train Engineering to Level V. Why not have Scotty trained at V so I don't have to worry about HIS darned engines. And Sulu can focus on weapons systems. Then I can worry about other critical skills like Charisma, leadership, and getting that beautiful green orion slave girl? Because the pod pilot takes over all command functions. On a normal naval ship, the captain gives a command, which is relayed to the appropriate chief, which is then passed down to the team in charge of that system and finally relayed to the weapons team. Then the command is relayed back up as confirmation that they heard it correctly. My favourite example: Captain: Target that raven! Weapons officer: Target that raven! Gunner: Target which raven, sir? Weapons officer: Target which raven sir? Captain: Points at the screen That one! Weapons officer: The one by the ruined station! Gunner: Targeting raven, sir! Weapons officer: Targetting raven, sir! Compare that to the pod pilot's mental equivalent of F1, F2, F3... Eve crews are there for all the mundane stuff, clearing turret jams, reloading weapons, organising the cargo, cleaning the ship, etc.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.30 15:20:00 - [46] escape pods wouldnt be seen as they are too small remember we can barely see a drone if not for the overview. if drones didnt have that little X in space you wouldnt even know they where orbiting you. our pods are also infact oversized so they can be seen for gameplay(when seen out of a ship in space the pod looks big enough it shouldnt fit into a condor).
Mamarto Minmatar Space Raiders	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:02:00 - [47] Congratulations to Feral Karkassia for being the first to get a clear no-nonsense dev reply in a ships crew thread. :) Good to finally have the matter settled for future discussions.
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:14:00 - [48] Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 30/01/2007 17:11:35 from the ship comparison charts you can see that a battleship is aprox 500-800 metres long and about 100-200 metres high making them quite capable of holding quite a few people. A typical frig is something like 50 mtres long. A pod has 1000m3 volume making the radius of the pod (qassuming its a sphere) around 6 metres. I seem to have read somewhere that the pod is 20metres in diameter wich seem a bit strange since it then would take up more than half the space of an frigate. But if so i guess that settles it as far as crews in frigs go. Cruisers are something like 100-200 metres long, a battlecruiser 300-400. So it makes it reasonable to think they should have some 50 odd crew. A carrier seem to be twice the size of battleships (around 1,5km) and dread around twice the carrier, the mothership somewhere inbetween that. The Iowa class battleships of US navy is about 270m long and have a crew of 1800 people. Taking into concern better technology and the fact that most of the ship is run by the pod pilot lets say a ship of that sice (comparable to a cruiser or battlecruiser of eve) have something like 900 people. Lets say 400 for a cruiser and 900 for the BC. Scaling that to battleships makes them have around 1800 people, carriers 3600 and a dread 7000 people. Of coruse nothing says crew count should scale linear but it should place it in the ballpark. And the chronicles seem to support something of a thousand people on a battleship. ----------------------------------------- For the liberation and safety of the Matari people!
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.01.30 20:08:00 - [49] Edited by: Ceanthar Cerbera on 30/01/2007 20:05:47 According to the chart the typhoon is 770m long, raven 600 and the apoc and mega a wopping 1400m long. Thats right the apoc is almos the same length as a nidhoggur and the same length as the smalles carrier, the chimera. Whats most strange is the size of the pod and the size of some frigs. the volume of the pod is 1000m3 making the diameter around 12m but that would make it bigger than frigs like the slahser and reaper or even the rifter(wich is around 6m high) whats even more odd is the size of the ships ingame. the carriers are around 3/4-1/2 the size that the ship comparison suggest. After doing some comparison of ships like the typhoon and the apoc it seems they have proper size relative eachothers. The Naglfar according to the chart is 4,5km long. around 6 times the lenght of the typhoon. Another strange thing is that the caldari have some of the smallest ships in the chart. Raven is 600m long but then again its about the same width. But how they came to be the heaviest ships is a mystery only solve by the assumption that other bigger ships like the apoc have more inside space (are less dense) edit. but then again this thread isnt about the size but anyway. ----------------------------------------- For the liberation and safety of the Matari people!
Narita Townshend VSP Corp. R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.31 10:46:00 - [50] Edited by: Narita Townshend on 31/01/2007 10:43:19 Random point For those who use evemon, if you look at the stats listed, theres a stat listed as "max passengers" I've thought that thats the max possible crew I.e. a condor has 8 max passengers, raven has about 1000, pheonix has about 999, Titan has 1500 May be not exact numbers, but another thing to ponder in this puzzle
Ceanthar Cerbera Minmatar Lone Gunmen Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.01.31 11:51:00 - [51] Originally by: Narita Townshend Edited by: Narita Townshend on 31/01/2007 10:43:19 Random point For those who use evemon, if you look at the stats listed, theres a stat listed as "max passengers" I've thought that thats the max possible crew I.e. a condor has 8 max passengers, raven has about 1000, pheonix has about 999, Titan has 1500 May be not exact numbers, but another thing to ponder in this puzzle could also mean passenger besides the crew ----------------------------------------- For the liberation and safety of the Matari people!
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.31 14:19:00 - [52] Quote: The Iowa class battleships of US navy is about 270m long and have a crew of 1800 people. of course the Iowa class hax with over 50 high slots and one hell of a projectile bonus.
Wanoah Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.01 12:17:00 - [53] Originally by: Ceanthar Cerbera Originally by: Narita Townshend Edited by: Narita Townshend on 31/01/2007 10:43:19 Random point For those who use evemon, if you look at the stats listed, theres a stat listed as "max passengers" I've thought that thats the max possible crew I.e. a condor has 8 max passengers, raven has about 1000, pheonix has about 999, Titan has 1500 May be not exact numbers, but another thing to ponder in this puzzle could also mean passenger besides the crew There were probably going to be passenger courier missions, similar to those in Elite. At some point, they must have decided to drop that and just stick passengers in the cargo hold. There were also going to be special containers for carrying hazardous materials in your cargo. Confusingly, when I first started playing, the item descriptions for things like Toxic Waste still stated that the special containers were needed, even though they had never been put into the game.
Taedrin Gallente The Last Ravens	Posted - 2007.02.02 23:36:00 - [54] Here's some food for thought... where does the crew go when you self destruct and/or eject? I can just imagine it now: "Alright guys, time for our tri-monthly insurance scam. Abandon ship." "But... we don't have escape pods like you!" "Yeah, good thing too. It would suck if there were any witnesses."
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.02.03 22:44:00 - [55] My character would not take on a crew if he could avoid it. The proof lies in the names of his ships. My character always names his main ship "Jerusalem". Each ship named Jerusalem has died a violent death. Jerusalem I (Merlin-class frigate): Destroyed on a Worlds Collide mission. Jerusalem II (Merlin-class frigate): Destroyed by rats. Jerusalem III (Merlin-class frigate): Destroyed while providing escort to a miner by a pirate trying out his new battlecruiser. Jerusalem IV (Caracal-class cruiser): Destroyed by pirate in a Stabber (Minmatar cruiser) Jerusalem V (Caracal-class cruiser): Destroyed by sentry guns Jerusalem VI (Caracal-class cruiser): Destroyed by pirate in a dreadnought Jerusalem VII (Manticore-class stealth bomber): Destroyed by POS defense batteries when I accidentally warped right into them. Consequently, signing on as his crew is a form of suicide, unless there are escape pods. __________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ.
Zephyrys	Posted - 2007.02.05 19:54:00 - [56] I look at it in the Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda sense.. The Pod (us) are the Ships AI's. We control all aspects of the fighting and defense..There are crews but they are symbolic and do the drudge work.. mucking out my intakes.. cleaning my manifolds.. counting my ammo stores.. There has to be crews.. afterall.. who builds a battleship with so many windows but noone to look out them?
Frightspear 5 November	Posted - 2007.02.05 22:22:00 - [57] If there's any topic that keeps appearing, this has to be it. Please CCP, add some crew stats to your ship data! In the meantime, check out some of these old pics LINKS.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.05 23:19:00 - [58] Originally by: Ginger. Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps. Do people just not see this? Seriously sticky this and be done with it.
Arbelia Amarsa	Posted - 2007.02.06 09:11:00 - [59] Edited by: Arbelia Amarsa on 06/02/2007 09:12:32 Edited by: Arbelia Amarsa on 06/02/2007 09:08:08 There is a mission (lvl 1 worlds collide i think) where you rescue crew of a heron frigate, there are 10 men in that crew when you pick them up (maybe 20 cant remember) so that show you there can be crews for frigates too. It all just depends on the pilot, how you outfit the ship, technology etc i think. Even in modern navies not every ship has same compliment. I am not a big fan of the pod pilot thing. I like to think my char is using a standard bridge, has a crew and is connected to the ship through a helmet or something. Crew size rough guestemates Frigate 5-20 men Destroyer 40-100 men Cruiser 50-400 men Battlecruiser/assaultships 150-1000+ men Battleships 1000-8000+ men Carriers 8000+ men Titans few hundred thousand to million men I think escape pods for crew depend on the ships owner. Amarr may use slave men for crew in which case they dont need escape pods, maybe just for officers. CAldari may equip escape pods for crew but it would be costly etc etc.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.02.06 15:26:00 - [60] i think it depends on if its a pod ship or not. most ships in the galaxy are tradital crewed starships. however id say only NPCs are dumb due to AI programing. id imagine in lore while a pod flown ship is better a good pilot still wouldnt consider a normal crewed ship of the line easy prey.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.07 00:38:00 - [61] Edited by: Bastogne on 07/02/2007 00:35:15 Originally by: Bastogne Originally by: Ginger. Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps. Do people just not see this? Seriously sticky this and be done with it. That is a dev in case some of you aren't paying attention. Argument is over.
Azmodelli Leetrano Gallente Clan LoKi Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.07 05:05:00 - [62] and to top it off, may I remind those who were in beta or just after beta that the ship info contained the number of crewmembers in its description... I have no idea why they removed that bit of info but meh... :)
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.02.07 10:27:00 - [63] Originally by: Bastogne Edited by: Bastogne on 07/02/2007 00:35:15 Originally by: Bastogne Originally by: Ginger. Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps. Do people just not see this? Seriously sticky this and be done with it. That is a dev in case some of you aren't paying attention. Argument is over. I don't think any of us is arguing the point whether a ship has a crew or not - they blatantly do. I think the point we're arguing is how important the crew is to the ship. People like Arbelia Amarasa think that a crew is vital to a ship and will cease working virtually immediately without one (although she appears to have missed the fact that we're in a pod, not piloting with a helmet...). I'm more of the view that the crew is essential for efficient running of a ship, but the ship can function for a while without one. The larger the ship, the shorter this crewless duration is.
qantua gnartians Gallente Cosmic Odyssey	Posted - 2007.02.07 11:32:00 - [64] Originally by: Yo**o Sanders No you can't. What happens when a gun jams? What happens when there's a power surge in a critical system that needs to be repaired? What happens when a million other unpredictable small things go wrong on your ship that require human intuition and creativity to fix? You're stuck in your pod, it's not like you can pop out, run down to the warp drive, and fix the small ***** in the casing while you're moving through low sec space. That's what the crew is for. Well you can actually, Whats is the problem for a pod pilot to take direct control of a drone with far better tools at hand then any human could operate, no clumsy biomass can compeet with a drone's tools when it comes to doing the work. And to think that an actual person is needed in the gunnery section to load antimatter into a railgun seams pretty silly to me. there might be some aspects of long term maintainance where some supporting bridge crew is needed for instance to perform ruotine inspections of bigger prototype guns. The crew might even take over ship while the capsuleer takes a break, doing routine travel, but they wont need to be at the guns or down in the engines douing combat, they can be in sealed space ready compartments, they dont need to have a low survivel rate. It would make sense that serving on a ship sort of became the a way of earning the privilige of becoming a capsuleer your self, or at least offer you acess to the wealth that comes from working side by side with the elite, and surely being at at ship flown bye a capsuleer is an efficient leaning enviroment. "Hands of a killer" deals with an amarr, a people obsessed with honour and old rituals, those would include some sort of status to crews on starships, might even some rituals stating that they must die with the ship to win the gods favour.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.07 23:07:00 - [65] Edited by: Bastogne on 07/02/2007 23:04:44 All weapon systems need a crew present. What if a stabilization fin drops down during reloading a missile tube and the missile is unable to fit fully in the bay, or the locking mechanism at the rear of the torpedo hatch fails and needs swapped out during a fight? What if a focusing crystal for a laser battery fails to latch in place properly due to worn actuators and needs seated manually? Say a hybrid shell catches on a shard of metal in the reloading mechanism on a large turret, and either you build overly elaborate robotic systems or some dude can stick a pair of pliers in there and pry it out, and bam the gun is loaded and firing again. Say you're doing missions and capute a contingent of enemy soldiers, you'll damn well want your own security detail present so those guys don't just run around sabatoging your vessel. Or say you take some hull damage and have injuries on board. Do your crewmembers just lie around bleeding in the hallways, or do medical teams rush to their aid? There a million different tiny little things that most people never think of that are involved in even the most seemingly simple of infrastructures. I spent 5.5 years in the army and have long been a huge naval warfare & history buff. While you can skeleton crew ships, it is never the standard to do so, and to do so as a habit is an invitation to catastrophe.
Varis Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.08 16:35:00 - [66] Bastgone - said perfectly. There is no way to automate something as complex as a ship - and expect it to work under fire. Like those realy expensive automated sattelites that NASA sends out - and becuase of a faulty wire or something ends up not working and flying off, or just sitting there like a multi-million dollar paperweight. and nothing is shooting at those things.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.02.09 04:27:00 - [67] Quote: Well you can actually, Whats is the problem for a pod pilot to take direct control of a drone with far better tools at hand then any human could operate, no clumsy biomass can compeet with a drone's tools when it comes to doing the work. i doubt a drone could ever "Mcgyver" a subsystem in the heat of battle to keep the shields up when all logical methods wont work in time.
Nir Draturiss Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.02.09 07:19:00 - [68] Edited by: Nir Draturiss on 09/02/2007 07:17:32 Ships have crews. I cant remember where I read this from...perhaps chrons or backstories, too lazy to find, but the pod technology of the 4 main empires can only manage frigates (larger frigs have crew). Only the Jove mastered the technical know-how of entirely controlling larger class ships with a single pod and i think they want to keep that secret. Drones..well yeah they might work. But then you still need people to maintain those drones now, won't you? ;) And in battleships, the amount of drones you're going to need will be numerous. More drones, more technicians. (if we are to accept that drones can manage battleships in the first place) Now all those skill books and skill points? Well thats just meta gaming **** to make the game makes sense for players. I believe its not meant to translate literally into "eve" universe. I mean, none of the chronicles ever mention anything bout skill books or points, do they? I'm sure all the pod pilots in Eve dont go around in station lounges "Hey dude, have you reached 15m skill points yet?" "nah I only have 6 million man...short of 500k points to 7 million" lol! thats just absurd , how the heck you keep track of how many points you are from Electronics 5 for example? They are not meant to be taken in as the "reality" in the Eve Universe. My Actions. my Sacrifices. my Life and my Death...are only for You, my God...my Eternal - oath of a long forgotten Khanid Knight.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.02.09 08:21:00 - [69] Originally by: Nir Draturiss Now all those skill books and skill points? Well thats just meta gaming **** to make the game makes sense for players. I believe its not meant to translate literally into "eve" universe. True, the exact concept of skill points isn't supposed to translate, but if the levels equate various levels of competence, then you could have a form of hierarchy. For example, level 1 Engineering is being able to wire in a plug, while level 5 allows you to macguyver an anti-personnel laser from a 9V battery, a pair of reading glasses and a lightbulb.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.02.10 14:28:00 - [70] skill points give the gameplay a method of making a character progress, much like getting levels in WoW but with no annoying grind. as well as control access to the nicer modules so that not everyone is flying around in T2 fitted Nanophoons the second they hit 100mil isk
James Duar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.13 04:41:00 - [71] I speculated on this in another thread here where I questioned how literal the "learning" we get from skillbooks needed to be. For all we know, having trained Electronics 5 might give you absolutely no ability to answer technical questions about electronics, or work with it manually, but it might setup structures in the pod pilot's brain which, combined with some conscious knowledge, let him run his ship better subconsciously.
Yakoff Star Scream Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.14 16:19:00 - [72] Well, since it is confirmed by CCP that ships do in fact have crew, IÆd like to throw an idea into the mix. How about introducing crew morale into the operational status of ships? Higher morale allows ship functions to work better, and inversely with low morale. Morale can be determined by how you play. Say you are a pirate, you pwn a hauler or a noob, but itÆs loot yields nothing. Morale drops. Crews start to mutiny, and they start to loose incentive to load your weapons faster. DonÆt flame me you dastardly pirates. This can also be a gain in your pirating pwn mobile. Say you get a hauler/noob/enemy ship with good loot. Your ship modules can work even better. What type of advantage does this have, you ask? Well, say you can not quite afford/use those tech II or faction items, yet. High morale can boost the attributes of modules. Or even if you can buy/use tech II items, low morale can make them work like tech I. How do you determine morale? Well, if anyone does not flame me and would like to know more, I will put the suggestions in.
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:00:00 - [73] ôHigher morale allows ship functions to work better, and inversely with low morale. Morale can be determined by how you play.ö One problem. You mind takes over the hosts body and they cannot move or do anything moral has no factor into crew performance. In the storeys and background its mentioned how the pod pilot shear mind power takes over the crew to say fire then releaseÆs control again once the job is done. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.02.14 18:26:00 - [74] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker skill points give the gameplay a method of making a character progress, much like getting levels in WoW but with no annoying grind. as well as control access to the nicer modules so that not everyone is flying around in T2 fitted Nanophoons the second they hit 100mil isk We weren't debating that, we were debating how skill points could be described from a role play point of view. Originally by: Pottsey ôHigher morale allows ship functions to work better, and inversely with low morale. Morale can be determined by how you play.ö One problem. You mind takes over the hosts body and they cannot move or do anything moral has no factor into crew performance. In the storeys and background its mentioned how the pod pilot shear mind power takes over the crew to say fire then releaseÆs control again once the job is done. I'm not a big fan of this system as it implies the crew are connected to the ship in some way, at least mentally. When the pod pilot tells them to do something, their mind and body basically does the work for the pilot, like a back-up processor or a sub-routine. If that were the case, then why bother with a human mind? Why not an automated piece of kit that will A) do the work just as efficiently, if not more so and B) require far less upkeep like food, life support, etc. I prefer Bastogne's view that the crew have their duties, with you as an omnipresent voice bellowing commands at them.
Feral Karkassia Minmatar Mean Corp Veni Vidi Vici .	Posted - 2007.02.15 13:44:00 - [75] Originally by: Mamarto Congratulations to Feral Karkassia for being the first to get a clear no-nonsense dev reply in a ships crew thread. :) Good to finally have the matter settled for future discussions. Lol awesome! Thanks Ginger for the reply :D " Its Time Lord science man.. they are bigger on the inside :P" ^ Exactly what I was thinking--why ARE pods so darn big? But I think the question on everyone's minds here is clearly: does the crew have escape pods? It is a fascinating point, and one that obviously hasn't been implemented yet. Is it something invisible that happens without us knowing? It IS a very interesting question! Please, make the Wolf's propulsion trails blue again!!!
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.02.17 23:12:00 - [76] I have an idea regarding crew escape pods: they don't exist. Escape pods, you see, would compromise hull integrity. Instead, when the ship is about to be destroyed, the crew converge on the pod - which, as many have noted, is rather large. This is so the crew can escape as well. If the ship is instapopped, or the pod is destroyed, the crew dies. Tough luck. __________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ.
Arkios Odymei The Marauders	Posted - 2007.02.18 06:38:00 - [77] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 18/02/2007 06:38:05 I worte a couple RP stories back in the day. Here is an excerpt of one of them. I wrote this back when I bought my first BS and was bringing her up to my (old) alliance's controled space. It pretty much sums up how I think the ships are run. After getting to my new ship, I adress my Crew via a ship-wide VOX system. Originally by: Untitled Story Excerpt Arkios clears his throat a little. ôEh-hermà This is your captain speaking. You are supposedly some of the best Megathron command specialists and crew around these parts and for what I am paying you all, you damn well better be.ö He chuckles a bit to himself. ôBut remember, with you being the best, I will expect nothing less from you. We will be seeing action very shortly so remember your drills and past experiences. Everything you have practiced and everything you have learned will be needed during the upcoming struggles. I see myself as a very easy going person and what I want from you is very simple to do. Perform your role to the best of your abilities whenever required. Perform well, and you all shall be rewarded in various ways. Perform poorly, and we all will probably die. ItÆs as simple as that. I need you, because you will ensure that this ship will do whatever I want it to, whenever I want it to happen. Now everyone back to their posts, we will be heading out without delay. That is all.ö With a smile like that of a kid in a candy store, Arkios turns behind him to the set of stairs that will lead him up to the capsule deck. He yells over his shoulder, ôSet a course for Autaris system. Once we get there IÆll take over in my pod.ö He laughs to himself and thinks out loud, ôDarian and the boys are gonna be happy to see weÆll have another Battleship up there.ö The stationÆs tractor beams slowly pull the Megathron class Battleship, C.M.S. Goliath, out of the docking bay. Once freed, her main engines spark to life. With the faint greenish glow of her Ion thrusters growing brighter by the second, she accelerates into the beginning of her first journeyà into the Vale of the Silent. I wrote these stories a while ago, and no one but myself has ever really read them . Feedback is always apreciated.
qantua gnartians Gallente Cosmic Odyssey	Posted - 2007.02.19 14:42:00 - [78] Originally by: Varis Bastgone - said perfectly. There is no way to automate something as complex as a ship - and expect it to work under fire. Like those realy expensive automated sattelites that NASA sends out - and becuase of a faulty wire or something ends up not working and flying off, or just sitting there like a multi-million dollar paperweight. and nothing is shooting at those things. But on manned vessels fixing anything is a masive task requiring speciliced tools often of robotic nature. You need the human mind but the body needs a lot of support, the astronauts dont just jump out and fix things. The idea of someone just jumping in under the loading array of a blasters is plain silly, how is that guy getting there? i mean it's a space ship flying in the big deadly void of zero air space, and besides blasters and railguns are superconducters using radioactive and instable ammo, how is he suposed to stay alive long enogh to be of any use if he get there in his space suit. there's too much technology needed to actually let him do anything around those forces needed to operate the big guns, ive always seen it more like the crew basicly living or working inside the pod making sure the pod pilot gets the support he needs and that all those little things like monitoring engine subsystems and inventory gets done, or in general controling and reprogramming the automation systems, because the pod pilot cant be everywhere and the automations systems make poor decisions. And dont tell me that a full functional replica of a set of human arms cant be build by the makers of a stargate.
Arkios Odymei The Marauders	Posted - 2007.02.19 15:15:00 - [79] Originally by: qantua gnartians And dont tell me that a full functional replica of a set of human arms cant be build by the makers of a stargate. I dont think that the ability to make these robotics is the issue. There is proof about our ability to make self sustaining, inteligent machines right in the prime fiction. Just look at Rogue Drones for instance; They are prety much what everyone who believes in "automated crewless battleships" think is crawling around in their ship... If you are the only human in the ship, I doubt anyone sane would want this onboard with them given current drone AI's track record. (Dont even give me that "they-wont-have-AI-because-I-will-control-thousands-of-drones-silmultaneously-with-my-mind-link-along-with-everything-else-thats-going-on-in-my-ship argument. Some Pod Pilots have trouble controling just their 5 combat drones while they are busy fighting.) The main issue about having crew is simple. When you get donw to it, its all about cost effectiveness. A Human life is much cheaper to buy than a specialized machine that acts like, and replicates the function of a human. Yes, Eve is a dark place. Thats why its so great. Keep in mind, Just because they are human crews doesnt mean they just run around naked in the ship doing their thing. Obviously, they will be using some kind of machines, exo-suits, and tools in general.
Caios Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.02 03:13:00 - [80] This debate's been going on so long... Does it have to be one or the other? Let's just say that a ship could either be completely automated, or crewed, and that it's really the pilot's preference. I can imagine Caldari pilots prefering the efficiency of full AI systems to complement the pod, Amarr pilots being more old fashioned and having slave crews do their shoveling for them, Minmatars being too ghetto to afford automoation , etc. Leave it up to individual pilots to decide whether their own ships are crewed or not.
R34PER Caldari Imperial Ravens	Posted - 2007.03.03 19:37:00 - [81] Edited by: R34PER on 03/03/2007 19:36:37 Edited by: R34PER on 03/03/2007 19:35:07 As they are crews on ships, i want a ship in eve that specializes in taking over other ship's crews, and it would ofcourse only work in fleets/gangs or otherwise supported, because by itself it may be sturdy but has no offensive power on its own. Instead, it sends out 'infiltration crafts' to seriously distrupt or temporarily shut off some modules on that ship, like in homeworld or nexus: the jupiter incident The crafts would have to stick to the enemy ship's hull for a while before taking effect, so they can be shot down by drones. And the crafts themselves are treated like kind of drones by game mechanics, so they need a large drone bay After, say a minute, they return to your drone bay if they are still in one piece.
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.05 23:55:00 - [82] Seeing how far into the future we are, I think people would find it pointless to risk unnecessary lives using large crews on battleships. I know you guys all think that crews "blatantly exist," however, in what form they exist has not been discussed. I too like the idea that the pilot controls everything from his pod and it is all automated. How does he repair problems? Well, there would be a large compliment of drones to act as the ship's crew who do all the day to day repairing tasks necessary. Honestly, don't flame me and tell me that I am wrong. There is no definitive way to know exactly what goes on inside the ships, and no one actually knows if there is a crew or not. The rp'ers have just decided this and therefore it is true.
The Mute Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.06 00:49:00 - [83] Edited by: The Mute on 06/03/2007 00:50:37 Edited by: The Mute on 06/03/2007 00:46:53 Pics from Beta. These have been posted in other threads on this same topic. Megathron Crew Dominix Crew Thorax Crew Link
Mercy Lescaut	Posted - 2007.03.06 01:42:00 - [84] Edited by: Mercy Lescaut on 06/03/2007 01:39:14 The developer gods have spoken. The ships, with the exception of the smallest and lightest frigates, have crews. It's easy to believe a frigate like the Condor could be run by a single pilot with the aid of a powerful AI. It is, after all, the Eve equivalent of an F-16. I'd imagine you first start to see crews on the mining frigates. Maybe two or three extra people to compliment the pilot. You need some to fix those mining lasers when the circuits fuse together from hours of pharming scordite. You need some one to repair the mining drones when they break down. You need some one to right-click/set-destination when the Pilot goes insane and begins to think his pod is a roid that needs to be mined. From there, I don't know. I find it hard to believe that in a universe as advanced as Eve you'd need more than a couple thousand people to man even the largest and most complex ships, to include Titans.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.03.06 17:37:00 - [85] People that still refuse to accept crews make me want to rip my hair out.
Hana Lena Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.10.25 19:37:00 - [86] Edited by: Hana Lena on 25/10/2007 19:38:48 Edited by: Hana Lena on 25/10/2007 19:38:18 Originally by: pandymen Seeing how far into the future we are, I think people would find it pointless to risk unnecessary lives using large crews on battleships. I know you guys all think that crews "blatantly exist," however, in what form they exist has not been discussed. I too like the idea that the pilot controls everything from his pod and it is all automated. How does he repair problems? Well, there would be a large compliment of drones to act as the ship's crew who do all the day to day repairing tasks necessary. Honestly, don't flame me and tell me that I am wrong. There is no definitive way to know exactly what goes on inside the ships, and no one actually knows if there is a crew or not. The rp'ers have just decided this and therefore it is true. Can you not read?? Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello! Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps. The above Post was made by a Dev a person that made the game this person sade that ships have crews therefore SHIPS HAVE CREWS! ADHD + Dyslexia = BAD SPELLING Proud to be in the FNA and not be a alt! Meow Mix! Bacon! DOOM!
Garonis Caldari Templars of Space Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.26 11:06:00 - [87] Back in the early days of the game the eve website had a few ship blueprints stating the crew sizes on them. I seem to remember a few frigates having a crew of just under ten members, cruisers having crew of high hundreds.. Battle cruisers of course weren't around then, and battleships thousands of crew, specifically I think the Raven had a crew of over 6 thousand. This is my sig ^^
New Davrin	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:28:00 - [88] Originally by: Bastogne Edited by: Bastogne on 07/02/2007 23:04:44 All weapon systems need a crew present. What if a stabilization fin drops down during reloading a missile tube and the missile is unable to fit fully in the bay, or the locking mechanism at the rear of the torpedo hatch fails and needs swapped out during a fight? What if a focusing crystal for a laser battery fails to latch in place properly due to worn actuators and needs seated manually? Say a hybrid shell catches on a shard of metal in the reloading mechanism on a large turret, and either you build overly elaborate robotic systems or some dude can stick a pair of pliers in there and pry it out, and bam the gun is loaded and firing again. Say you're doing missions and capute a contingent of enemy soldiers, you'll damn well want your own security detail present so those guys don't just run around sabatoging your vessel. Or say you take some hull damage and have injuries on board. Do your crewmembers just lie around bleeding in the hallways, or do medical teams rush to their aid? There a million different tiny little things that most people never think of that are involved in even the most seemingly simple of infrastructures. I spent 5.5 years in the army and have long been a huge naval warfare & history buff. While you can skeleton crew ships, it is never the standard to do so, and to do so as a habit is an invitation to catastrophe. Ok.. while I believe you are right to an extent, let's not forget we are talking about spaceships in the far future. Autoloaders. It's as simple as that. The ships in EVE have magazines, from which sophisticated (by our standards) autoloaders select ammunition and transport it throughout the vessel to the various turrets or launch tubes. This is as true on frigates as it is on dreadnoughts. Generally, the more sophisticated a piece of technology becomes, the less grunt work a human tech will have to do to maintain it.. but this reduction in grunt work is accompanied by the need for greater expertise. The fact that battleships have crews in the thousands indicates that they have extensive technical, engineering and damage control teams, as well as the support/security staff to go with them. Most, if not all of the functions you carry out as a pilot have nothing to do with the crew.. flight, locking of targets, engaging modules.. etc. They would be involved in the process of fitting your ship in the station, integrating new modules and storing cargo/ammunition/drones/fuel. The crew would also be involved in maintaining the ship in the state of readiness required by the pilot,.. (this would include activities like maintaining the reactor, making sure the capacitor recharge rate remained constant,.. damage control teams would attempt to stop modules from overloading, and to stop the damage spreading to other modules..
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:46:00 - [89] well the reloading of the guns could have crew involved, even if its some guy forklifting a pallet of fresh ammo into the autoloader bays.
Gerard Deneth Caldari Intel 7	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:53:00 - [90] Edited by: Gerard Deneth on 29/10/2007 16:54:12 Another thing is to consider the psychological issues as a part of crewing. Personnel serving by themselves for long periods tend to become very depressed, slowly taking more and more risks to help fight against a feeling loneliness, to "see if they are still alive". (This has already been seen on the ISS and other stations... in one documented instance, a Russian astronaut conducted an unauthorized spacewalk without a security tether on the outside of the space station.. later debriefing revealed he had been suffering from clinical depression). Many other astronauts have mentioned the same feelings upon return, even from stations with crews (alibet small ones) like Mir and the ISS. Adding on to the psychological reasons, you also have to think about crew endurance. Can a Pod Pilot monitor every ship function, even on a cursory basis, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Howabout when in combat? Even the Jovians would start to feel fatigued after some days of this, at the best. Pilots would end up resorting to stimulants to maintain focus, and minds would wander from the task at hand more and more as rest is ignored. The only guys who COULD do that would be Sansha's True Slaves.... and I don't think we quite want to go to that level... A crew gives the Pod Pilot the ability to unwind and function on long deployments, someone to "mind the store" while he is in the bathroom or having a shower and singing off key (thank Jove for soundproofing). Lastly, on the subject of repairs. Generally, "repairs" such as they are happen in combat. At that point, the Pod Pilot's already busy. He's trying to kill the buggers damaging his hull, and probably only saying "Fix This!" to those who are aboard with him. He probably doesn't have time to know that the port-side #2 engine lost a power feed and he has to jack up the power into the other port-side engine to compensate. Or that "Hull damage" is actually a breach in the forward break room, and needs a weld patch until the repairers can get over to them. Add on to that the ability to conduct "sideways" repairs on a ship IE non-standard repair jobs. With the hole in said break room, the computer's "book" procedure would most likely either be to lock down the compartment and assign nano repair when it is available. But damage might be coming in over more important positions, so he grabs a heavy table and slams it over the breach before using a quickset glue to make it airtight. No, not a perfect repair, but a d**n sight better than getting sucked out a hole :D
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.10.31 04:05:00 - [91] ships would have to have some form of offduty distractions, even if its a video screen in the mess hall. movies are pretty much how they keep submarine crews sane IRL. since they pretty much never surface until they are pulling back into New London, CT 8 months later
Andre Ricard Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:52:00 - [92] Edited by: Andre Ricard on 01/11/2007 05:53:41 As I remember it from Beta, there were a few issues with implementing the crews of the spaceships, even though they are supposed to be there. The first and foremost was simply development time - in all honesty EVE's beta was a little bit of a mess, and some things that were supposed to be in right from the start went on the chopping block early on. Crews were one of these things - you saw the stat for crews in early beta versions of the client but it was just another number which you never did anything with. The crew system was never implemented because there was just so much else to get online first. Secondly, however, there was the issue of 0.0 and population. With the exception of a few areas, 0.0 is very sparsely populated. Even now 0.0 alliances are tied to Empire for some of the supplies for POSes, but imagine if every pilot needed to replace crew every time a battleship went pop - never mind what happens in a typical fleet battle or god forbid what happens in maximum derp situations and a dozen dreadnoughts go pop in the space of an hour. Crew was a logistical nightmare that would have strangled the life out of the 0.0 game, so in the end the decision was made to simply fiat the whole thing and say that the ships simply came crewed - it's assumed to be part of the build cost or somesuch. Plus, of course, people have pointed out the problems with crew simulation - it's yet another thing to worry about on top of all the stuff you already have to fiddle with when piloting a ship. It was a layer of complexity that simply was not needed. Crews are on the ships and in the backstory, but in terms of gameplay they simply detract more than they add to the experience, unfortunately. That may change someday, but for the foreseeable future crews will remain unsimulated. ----- Character back under original management.
Freedom Rain Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:55:00 - [93] Well, I believe that, as ginger stated most frigs are pod-pilot only, I look at frigs like fighter jets, some have one pilot, some have 2, stealth bombers probably 3-5, larger ships have more people,of varying numbers based on which race and their technological level. I won't argue numbers, but what I think would be interesting, and add to immersion, is when we lose a ship that has others on it, we get a mail with all the names of the crew lost. Make them real people. maybe even get mail from their families once in awhile, perhaps as a trigger to a "storyline" mission of some kind. That would be really cool.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:50:00 - [94] Originally by: Freedom Rain we get a mail with all the names of the crew lost. Make them real people. maybe even get mail from their families once in awhile, perhaps as a trigger to a "storyline" mission of some kind. That would be really cool. I agree with you that it would make it a lot more interesting immersion wise, but given the number of ships destroyed in a day and the average crew of a battleship (at least 7000), it's going to need a very heft random name generator or a lot of John Smiths. In any case, it'd be unlikely as the limits on the EVEmail system wouldn't allow a mail of that size.
Freedom Rain Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:02:00 - [95] Originally by: Marine HK4861 Originally by: Freedom Rain we get a mail with all the names of the crew lost. Make them real people. maybe even get mail from their families once in awhile, perhaps as a trigger to a "storyline" mission of some kind. That would be really cool. I agree with you that it would make it a lot more interesting immersion wise, but given the number of ships destroyed in a day and the average crew of a battleship (at least 7000), it's going to need a very heft random name generator or a lot of John Smiths. In any case, it'd be unlikely as the limits on the EVEmail system wouldn't allow a mail of that size. You have a point there..wonder if someone on the dev team could come up with some alternative, some variant of this idea that would work..
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:10:00 - [96] the problem is the way the game works doesnt work with having crews(how fast a ship goes pop), in truth something the size of a battleship and definatly the capitols would take hours and hours to totally destroy. however nobody would play EVE if a well tanked BS required a game of "Sink the Bismark".
Victoria Ehr Twisted Attitude Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.11.06 09:06:00 - [97] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker the problem is the way the game works doesnt work with having crews(how fast a ship goes pop), in truth something the size of a battleship and definatly the capitols would take hours and hours to totally destroy. however nobody would play EVE if a well tanked BS required a game of "Sink the Bismark". Game mechanics are one thing, your imagination is another. The game has to be cut and dry for playability, so it is fast paced at times. But concerning crews and how long it takes to really destroy a battleship, imagination would dictate that would take hours and so many things would happen with the crews. So on the one hand you just have to play the game for what it is. But if you want to roleplay and think about the other aspects of game immersion like crews, machinery etc. then you have to use imagination. Demand answers and inherit lies; Ask questions and inherit truth.

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