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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1806
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Posted - 2015.10.14 10:53:56 -
[1] - Quote
So, it is hardly a new idea - I found several old, locked threads on the topic (e.g. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1825060), but destroying Mobile Warp Disruptors should generate killmails (as with any other destructible structure).
Why? Because I believe that killmails and lossmails are a great way to provide incentives for people to attack or defend bubbles. Killmails are also "free" - they do not generate any tangible reward - but everyone wants them. If I jump into one of those horrible, bubble-infested systems looking for a ratter or miner to kill, but they all get safe, it would be nice to have something to shoot (in addition to blowing up their jet cans, mobile tractor units, and etc.).
I believe that this will have a positive impact on some of the worst abuses regarding massive bubble spam, without undermining bubble effectiveness when employed under normal circumstances.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit
1038
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Posted - 2015.10.14 11:14:53 -
[2] - Quote
I see no reason why not, other deployable items of similar or greater value do so it is hardly without precedent.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
156
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Posted - 2015.10.14 11:25:04 -
[3] - Quote
Fine by me. That way, i'll most likely take time to clean things on my way rather than just burn out of it.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2153
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Posted - 2015.10.14 11:29:29 -
[4] - Quote
There is an intel impact here. Currently one must maintain a scout in the area to ensure the bubbles are still there, with killmails they will be notified of a passing fleet.
Whether that is good or bad I leave for others to debate, but should be considered alongside the OP.
Perhaps a neutral compromise is making them follow the existing RF model and when RF'd they drop tackle capabilities (bubble down) and delays a potential killmail until later, long after the intel value of the fallen bubble is obsolete. Maybe like...60 minutes RF timer, to keep it reasonable. People will still clear up the space junk, but no-one gets paged when their passive tackle wall falls.
Ed: Oh and as long as I'm dreaming, don't have them trigger a weapons timer either |
Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
2032
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Posted - 2015.10.14 11:42:57 -
[5] - Quote
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS.
Dear eve players, please try and use the word "content" less and instead, be specific. Thanks
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid Decayed Orbit
1038
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:03:47 -
[6] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS.
If you mean just the tower itself then honestly I could live with that.
I get of tired of seeing folks boasting about how fabulous their killboard is when in reality 90% of it is defunct POS mods popped after the tower goes down but if your going to keep KMs for the mods you might as well generate them for any deployable item.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
156
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:05:49 -
[7] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS.
Well, most of recently introduced deployables generate KMs already (MD, MTU, MMJU). Why not add bubbles to the list (except for the intel reason listed earlier)?
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:18:13 -
[8] - Quote
Intel is a bad reason to not do it, if you know people are loosing deployable in a system you have intel that there is activity there.
10 bubble KM in a system dont mean the gates are clear, it may have been 20 bubbles on a single gate or someone can have added new after they got removed. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1807
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:31:52 -
[9] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS.
We have killmails for mobile depots and mobile tractor units. Do you really think people should not get a killmail for destroying your MTU full of loot?
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1807
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:33:38 -
[10] - Quote
afkalt wrote:There is an intel impact here. Currently one must maintain a scout in the area to ensure the bubbles are still there, with killmails they will be notified of a passing fleet. Whether that is good or bad I leave for others to debate, but should be considered alongside the OP. Perhaps a neutral compromise is making them follow the existing RF model and when RF'd they drop tackle capabilities (bubble down) and delays a potential killmail until later, long after the intel value of the fallen bubble is obsolete. Maybe like...60 minutes RF timer, to keep it reasonable. People will still clear up the space junk, but no-one gets paged when their passive tackle wall falls. Ed: Oh and as long as I'm dreaming, don't have them trigger a weapons timer either
If you do not want to shoot it, to save the intel value, that is a choice the aggressor has to make. I have no issues with that.
The same goes for anything you shoot. There have been several times when I am hunting where I do not shoot some low value target in order to make it appear that I am AFK or to hide my fleet's traces.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2154
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:37:23 -
[11] - Quote
Yeah, I really don't mind one way or the other, but someone had to mention it and I always try to get a middle ground if I'm pointing things out |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1807
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Posted - 2015.10.14 12:38:50 -
[12] - Quote
Samillian wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS. If you mean just the tower itself then honestly I could live with that. I get of tired of seeing folks boasting about how fabulous their killboard is when in reality 90% of it is defunct POS mods popped after the tower goes down but if your going to keep KMs for the mods you might as well generate them for any deployable item.
I really do not care about whether someone has a 90% killboard or whatever. I know that is not the measure of an effective PVPer. Many of the best solo PVPers have relatively low efficiency - because they are not just F1-ing on every ship in a huge fleet fight. There are tons of people, however, who will do otherwise boring things for an intangible reward.
And the way I see it, it may or may not matter to everyone, but for those who do care, there should be some intangible impact to sticking 600m ISK worth of bubbles on a gate and going AFK.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1811
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Posted - 2015.10.15 05:51:37 -
[13] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS.
Honestly, we should have killmails for everything that is:
(1) Destructible (2) Has tangible in-game value
The biggest failing of Aegis Sov is that there are no killmails for destroying the super expensive things we destroy with Entosis Links.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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FT Cold
The Scope Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2015.10.16 10:30:19 -
[14] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS. Honestly, we should have killmails for everything that is: (1) Destructible (2) Has tangible in-game value The biggest failing of Aegis Sov is that there are no killmails for destroying the super expensive things we destroy with Entosis Links.
Agreed, for reasons that are all outlined well in previous posts. |
Anthar Thebess
1345
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Posted - 2015.10.16 10:39:11 -
[15] - Quote
Yes, people will have a reason to kill them.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Rek Seven
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
2032
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Posted - 2015.10.16 12:42:28 -
[16] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS. We have killmails for mobile depots and mobile tractor units. Do you really think people should not get a killmail for destroying your MTU full of loot?
I think the MTU should because they can contain loot, but anything that can't contain loot shouldn't generate a KM in my opinion.
I'd be ok with these other items dropping salvage, if people are looking for a reason to destroy them. I would prefer if people didn't hold kill mails in such high regard tbh.
Dear eve players, please try and use the word "content" less and instead, be specific. Thanks
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2336
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Posted - 2015.10.16 13:17:02 -
[17] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Yes, people will have a reason to kill them.
How about the reason that it's slowing you down/impacting your travel? Isn't that a reason to shoot them? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1818
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Posted - 2015.10.16 15:50:18 -
[18] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:Yes, people will have a reason to kill them. How about the reason that it's slowing you down/impacting your travel? Isn't that a reason to shoot them?
Sure, that is one reason to shoot them. If I, as a small gang FC, ask my fleet to do something as boring as shooting a bunch of bubbles, it would at least be nice to see how much ISK you cost your enemy.
Additionally, I can spend the entire fleet saying, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
Which seems very appropriate given the nationality of my nearest bubble-loving neighbors...
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1818
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Posted - 2015.10.16 15:53:57 -
[19] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?
I think the line should be drawn at POS. We have killmails for mobile depots and mobile tractor units. Do you really think people should not get a killmail for destroying your MTU full of loot? I think the MTU should because they can contain loot, but anything that can't contain loot shouldn't generate a KM in my opinion. I'd be ok with these other items dropping salvage, if people are looking for a reason to destroy them. I would prefer if people didn't hold kill mails in such high regard tbh.
So, by your definition, an empty MTU should not generate a killmail?
You can pretend to disdain kill mails all you like, but everyone wants them. By the same corollary, no one wants a loss mail. Incentives to stick around and protect your property should exist in Eve. A red killboard because you lose 600m in large bubbles every time you leave them up is a powerful incentive not too go crazy with the bubbles.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
13389
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Posted - 2015.10.16 16:04:58 -
[20] - Quote
We agree that these things really should be generating killmails. I can't promise anything quite yet but we've added it to our list of little things.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Ares Desideratus
Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan
279
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Posted - 2015.10.16 16:13:52 -
[21] - Quote
Killmails shouldn't even exist in the first place, at least in their current form. They should be either removed from the game entirely or completely overhauled, but the sheep mentality will keep them where they are. |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
228
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Posted - 2015.10.16 16:17:48 -
[22] - Quote
Ares Desideratus wrote:Killmails shouldn't even exist in the first place, at least in their current form. They should be either removed from the game entirely or completely overhauled, but the sheep mentality will keep them where they are.
why? |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1137
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Posted - 2015.10.16 16:24:40 -
[23] - Quote
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1818
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We agree that these things really should be generating killmails. I can't promise anything quite yet but we've added it to our list of little things.
That would be awesome! Thank you for even considering this!
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1818
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:23:44 -
[25] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?
See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it).
I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubble walls.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Athryn Bellee
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
58
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:26:09 -
[26] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount? See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it). I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubbles walls
The problem is when some nullbear puts so many bubbles on the gate that you literally can't see anything without zooming nearly all the way out. I know you can usually petition them to be removed at that level, but it might be nice if there were a limit to how many could be on grid at the same time, or within a certain distance of each other. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1818
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:33:20 -
[27] - Quote
Athryn Bellee wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount? See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it). I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubbles walls The problem is when some nullbear puts so many bubbles on the gate that you literally can't see anything without zooming nearly all the way out. I know you can usually petition them to be removed at that level, but it might be nice if there were a limit to how many could be on grid at the same time, or within a certain distance of each other.
I have been through similar walls. Yes, it is annoying. But when you reflect that could be 2b ISK worth of losses on their killboard, a solution presents itself. A gang of left-over Ishtars could make quite a dent in someone's pocket.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Circumstantial Evidence
232
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:42:54 -
[28] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount? I think I've read CCP had hoped to find time to move bubbles into the new drag/drop deployment system used by newer deployables like the depots and MTU (probably mentioned in those discussion threads). If they ever get to this, I would not be surprised if bubbles gained a timer.
Separately, "metaballs" - the graphical merging of overlapping bubbles into a continuous shape, was discussed as a future possibility, in the Art & Gfx panel in 2014 fanfest.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1487
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Posted - 2015.10.16 17:52:21 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:We agree that these things really should be generating killmails. I can't promise anything quite yet but we've added it to our list of little things.
If it has the possibility of dropping player loot - km
If it's just some space thing (no possibility of loot or npc thinger) - no km
Bubbles - no loot, so no km sma at offline tower - loot, so km abandoned tower - possible loot, so km
Drawing the line at loot seems like the easiest thing to do. Make it part of the loot fair drop randomizer code to generate a km.
A km for a bubble seems pretty bottom shelf to me. Next we'll be generating km for each asteroid we finish off (J/K - no one run with this bad idea please) |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1137
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Posted - 2015.10.16 18:11:41 -
[30] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount? See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it). I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubble walls.
1 hour is pretty reasonable. I do have a problem with people building 'walls' that last forever and have no upkeep, I don't know why you don't. |
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