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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
467
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Posted - 2015.10.17 00:50:05 -
[1] - Quote
Just some sample data for anyone interested regarding blitzing lv4 missions. Very important: You are able to keep this pace up indefinitely, without the need for mission pulling alts so long as your Social skill is at V and your other mission related social skills are at least at IV. You also only need to run 1/3 or even less of the storyline missions (War Prep) to maintain mission access.
14:42Time Start 17:45Time End
Just slightly over 3h. This as measured from accepting the first mission, to docking and completing the last mission. Obviously includes all travel, docking/undocking and mistake time.
Isk Start:128 104 106 Isk End:389 098 972
Isk Tot260 994 866
This includes repairing damaged modules, bounties and mission rewards. I only have Negotiations at IV. This effects mission reward payouts only and is only 5% of that (roughly 6-7mill extra over the 3h)
84 072LP Start 338 026LP End
253 954LP Tot
System is a .5 system. Relatively low .5 true sec. I only have security connections IV so I am missing out on 10% of LP, around 25k I think. Much bigger impact than Negotiation.
LP exchange rate for purposes of this example: 1 679/LP. With this rate I can instantly sell the items I am buying and convert around 95% of the LP I gathered. For ease of this example I'll assume 100% because I will sell that LP on the next run at the same rate.
Other income/expenses: -60 000 000isk During missioning there are certain items you do pick up like implants from storylines, Scarlet or faction mods form burners. This run was extremely unlucky in that I got no faction mods, mostly junk and a single scarlet (so one implant). Neither of the two storylines were War Prep so no implants there either. Also I lost one of my burner ships due to a lapse in concentration. It happens and needs to be taken into account when calculating isk/h. The total comes out to around -60mill over the course of the 3h.
For those interested here's the breakdown of the exact missions I ran roughly each hour:
Burners Normal
Worm - 14:42 - Attack of Drones - Stop the Thief Enyo - - Gone Bezerk Enyo - Jaguar - Cruor - - Recon 1 Hawk -
Jaguar - 15:45 Dramiel - Vengeance - Dramiel Base - Cruor - Dramiel Base -
- Attack of Drones 16:45 Dramiel - Hawk - Dramiel Base - Talos - - Cargo Delivery - Recon 1 - Cargo Delivery - Dread Scarlet - - 17:45
For those that don't want to do the math, total isk worth is 627 425 958 or 205 713 428isk/h.
Caveat: My skills are far from being All V for purposes of running burners faster/more efficiently as well as social skills for mission reward. There's a decent bit of room to grow. This was also not a cherry picked data set, I simply got home from work today, got a snack and started running missions for 3hs and noted down the results. I have had results as high as 235mill/h (no ship loss, some faction loot) depends on the luck and today I was pretty unlucky. |
Glathull
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1188
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Posted - 2015.10.17 01:28:01 -
[2] - Quote
In before McAlt Seller shows up to tell us all how you hate high sec, that you hosed your standings and can never run missions again now, or that you are just straight up lying.
Seriously, thanks for the numbers.
I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
662
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Posted - 2015.10.17 02:48:46 -
[3] - Quote
That is crap. Complete crap.
Jori can do 7.6 Burners per hour but you managed to only do 6.
Obviously you lack skill.
You should have been pulling at least 300mil per hour in asset generation.
Scrub
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Z'krooh
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2015.10.17 05:34:41 -
[4] - Quote
Perhaps the standings limit for l4 agent should be higher. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
145
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Posted - 2015.10.17 06:37:40 -
[5] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Just some sample data for anyone interested regarding blitzing lv4 missions. Very important: You are able to keep this pace up indefinitely, without the need for mission pulling alts so long as your Social skill is at V and your other mission related social skills are at least at IV. You also only need to run 1/3 or even less of the storyline missions (War Prep) to maintain mission access. 14:42Time Start 17:45Time End Just slightly over 3h. This as measured from accepting the first mission, to docking and completing the last mission. Obviously includes all travel, docking/undocking and mistake time. Isk Start:128 104 106 Isk End:389 098 972 Isk Tot260 994 866 This includes repairing damaged modules, bounties and mission rewards. I only have Negotiations at IV. This effects mission reward payouts only and is only 5% of that (roughly 6-7mill extra over the 3h) 84 072LP Start 338 026LP End 253 954LP Tot System is a .5 system. Relatively low .5 true sec. I only have security connections IV so I am missing out on 10% of LP, around 25k I think. Much bigger impact than Negotiation. LP exchange rate for purposes of this example: 1 679/LP. With this rate I can instantly sell the items I am buying and convert around 95% of the LP I gathered. For ease of this example I'll assume 100% because I will sell that LP on the next run at the same rate. Other income/expenses: -60 000 000isk During missioning there are certain items you do pick up like implants from storylines, Scarlet or faction mods form burners. This run was extremely unlucky in that I got no faction mods, mostly junk and a single scarlet (so one implant). Neither of the two storylines were War Prep so no implants there either. Also I lost one of my burner ships due to a lapse in concentration. It happens and needs to be taken into account when calculating isk/h. The total comes out to around -60mill over the course of the 3h. For those interested here's the breakdown of the exact missions I ran roughly each hour: Burners Normal
Worm - 14:42 - Attack of Drones - Stop the Thief Enyo - - Gone Bezerk Enyo - Jaguar - Cruor - - Recon 1 Hawk -
Jaguar - 15:45 Dramiel - Vengeance - Dramiel Base - Cruor - Dramiel Base -
- Attack of Drones 16:45 Dramiel - Hawk - Dramiel Base - Talos - - Cargo Delivery - Recon 1 - Cargo Delivery - Dread Scarlet - - 17:45
For those that don't want to do the math, total isk worth is 627 425 958 or 205 713 428isk/h. Caveat: My skills are far from being All V for purposes of running burners faster/more efficiently as well as social skills for mission reward. There's a decent bit of room to grow. This was also not a cherry picked data set, I simply got home from work today, got a snack and started running missions for 3hs and noted down the results. I have had results as high as 235mill/h (no ship loss, some faction loot) depends on the luck and today I was pretty unlucky.
You must've had a lucky mission draw that day. You can't these numbers using only one char to pull missions on a daily basis.
Wait, huh? You using only one ship as well?? Is that even possible? |
Z'krooh
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 07:11:02 -
[6] - Quote
Full API key or we do not believe! |
The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden Haven.
12
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Posted - 2015.10.17 12:48:45 -
[7] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Just some sample data for anyone interested regarding blitzing lv4 missions. Very important: You are able to keep this pace up indefinitely, without the need for mission pulling alts so long as your Social skill is at V and your other mission related social skills are at least at IV. You also only need to run 1/3 or even less of the storyline missions (War Prep) to maintain mission access. 14:42Time Start 17:45Time End Just slightly over 3h. This as measured from accepting the first mission, to docking and completing the last mission. Obviously includes all travel, docking/undocking and mistake time. Isk Start:128 104 106 Isk End:389 098 972 Isk Tot260 994 866 This includes repairing damaged modules, bounties and mission rewards. I only have Negotiations at IV. This effects mission reward payouts only and is only 5% of that (roughly 6-7mill extra over the 3h) 84 072LP Start 338 026LP End 253 954LP Tot System is a .5 system. Relatively low .5 true sec. I only have security connections IV so I am missing out on 10% of LP, around 25k I think. Much bigger impact than Negotiation. LP exchange rate for purposes of this example: 1 679/LP. With this rate I can instantly sell the items I am buying and convert around 95% of the LP I gathered. For ease of this example I'll assume 100% because I will sell that LP on the next run at the same rate. Other income/expenses: -60 000 000isk During missioning there are certain items you do pick up like implants from storylines, Scarlet or faction mods form burners. This run was extremely unlucky in that I got no faction mods, mostly junk and a single scarlet (so one implant). Neither of the two storylines were War Prep so no implants there either. Also I lost one of my burner ships due to a lapse in concentration. It happens and needs to be taken into account when calculating isk/h. The total comes out to around -60mill over the course of the 3h. For those interested here's the breakdown of the exact missions I ran roughly each hour: Burners Normal
Worm - 14:42 - Attack of Drones - Stop the Thief Enyo - - Gone Bezerk Enyo - Jaguar - Cruor - - Recon 1 Hawk -
Jaguar - 15:45 Dramiel - Vengeance - Dramiel Base - Cruor - Dramiel Base -
- Attack of Drones 16:45 Dramiel - Hawk - Dramiel Base - Talos - - Cargo Delivery - Recon 1 - Cargo Delivery - Dread Scarlet - - 17:45
For those that don't want to do the math, total isk worth is 627 425 958 or 205 713 428isk/h. Caveat: My skills are far from being All V for purposes of running burners faster/more efficiently as well as social skills for mission reward. There's a decent bit of room to grow. This was also not a cherry picked data set, I simply got home from work today, got a snack and started running missions for 3hs and noted down the results. I have had results as high as 235mill/h (no ship loss, some faction loot) depends on the luck and today I was pretty unlucky. You must've had a lucky mission draw that day. You can't these numbers using only one char to pull missions on a daily basis. Wait, huh? You using only one ship as well?? Is that even possible?
Forgive me if I went blind, but I can't see the bit where she said 1 ship. I'm guessing a mach and a bunch of frigates. |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
469
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 13:26:23 -
[8] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote: You must've had a lucky mission draw that day. You can't these numbers using only one char to pull missions on a daily basis.
Wait, huh? You using only one ship as well?? Is that even possible?
All in all it was a kinda meh day honestly. Way too many hard or long burners (curor, jags, vengeance, worm), no faction loot despite the number of burner missions, no succubus burner, only one talos run, lost a ship too and had to decline a few burner missions that were either in LS or that I don't have the ship for yet (the gurista base). And to be honest I would have liked a few more 'normal' lv4 blitz missions, especially scarlet or stop the thief. It'll balance out on my next run.
The Angel Base burners were nice though. One went a bit wonky where 2 of the frigs went of back to their starting positions for a while but the angel base burner is pretty sweet.
Also yes, this is not with a single ship as a mach can't get into any of the burner missions, obviously. I have a set of ships specifically for each burner, that's how you run em. Worth it though.
Regardless, These are the numbers and they're about average. This thread isn't to convince you, just as info for people that wanted it
That said, if anyone is interested in learning more, contact me in game. I'll show you the ropes. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1905
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 17:51:55 -
[9] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:You must've had a lucky mission draw that day. You can't these numbers using only one char to pull missions on a daily basis.
sure you can, you can even do it declining a bunch of those missions. I might pick the best one or two of them to keep standings in check and that is just because I'm lazy and cba to frequently check my agent standings.
attack of the drones - skip, involves sitting there waiting for stuff to spawn *yawn* stop the theif - awful payout/bounty, skip gone berserk - meh skip it, might consider running it if on a bad streak of declines. recon - depends on where you run missions, some versions you run, some get skipped cargo delivery - yea it only takes seconds to run, but meh skip
@ChainsawPlankto
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
159
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 23:48:01 -
[10] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:You must've had a lucky mission draw that day. You can't these numbers using only one char to pull missions on a daily basis. sure you can, you can even do it declining a bunch of those missions. I might pick the best one or two of them to keep standings in check and that is just because I'm lazy and cba to frequently check my agent standings. attack of the drones - skip, involves sitting there waiting for stuff to spawn *yawn* stop the theif - awful payout/bounty, skip gone berserk - meh skip it, might consider running it if on a bad streak of declines. recon - depends on where you run missions, some versions you run, some get skipped cargo delivery - yea it only takes seconds to run, but meh skip
Well I use 6 chars to draw lev 4 SOE missions from. I use a combination of 2 or 3 Paladins + either a Legion, or Sleipnir. When I run missions I do full clear and the only missions I except are: The Assault --loot/salvage Recon (1st one only)--loot/savage Blockade--loot/salvage Smash the Supplier--loot/salvage Mordus Headhunters--skip loot (too much work) Worlds Collide-- (best bounty mission) skip loot (too much traveling) Vengeance--loot/salvage Dread Pirate Scarlet (best overall)--loot/salvage
When I run burners I use combination of Kitsune + Slicer + either a Worm, Vengeance or Hawk. I run all the Team Burners except the Worm. And I only do the Angel Base Atomic mission with a Deimos or Zealot, the others are just to hard. If I go full throttle I can make around that 200 mill an hour range, but I'm lazy and like to watch Japanese animation when I run missions so I make around 100-150 mill an hour. |
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
52109
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 23:52:53 -
[11] - Quote
I gave Anize Oramara a +1 Like for posting this thread. It is rather impressive to say the least. Seems like a good streak of luck during a single 3 hr game session.
However a much larger sample size and more time invested is actually needed to get a better estimate on approximate ISK per hour average. Also need to include documentation showing in-game stats.
Quote:LP exchange rate for purposes of this example: 1679/LP. With this rate I can instantly sell the items I am buying and convert around 95% of the LP I gathered. For ease of this example I'll assume 100% because I will sell that LP on the next run at the same rate.
The thing I don't like about all these 'X amount of ISK made per hour' threads is that LP's are always included to establish the total 'ISK per hr' amount yet there's never any specifics posted such as what items are being used, where and how those items are being sold.. Obviously it takes time and ISK to convert LP's into items which then needs to be resold for ISK. Doing that detracts from the average amount of ISK made per hr.
Bottom line - there's a lot of different variables that affect the total amount of ISK made per hr average. What one player states isn't the same for other players. Skills, Ship used, Ship fitting, Combat tactics, Mission offers, etc, all affect the outcome. Not to mention posting an average amount of ISK made per hr gives a bad impression to others in that it looks like the norm for running missions.
Anyway, thanks and gratz to Anize Oramara. Hope she has continued success in making that amount of ISK per hr average.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
159
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 00:00:47 -
[12] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I gave Anize Oramara a +1 Like for posting this thread. It is rather impressive to say the least. Seems like a good streak of luck during a single 3 hr game session. However a much larger sample size and more time invested is actually needed to get a better estimate on approximate ISK per hour average. Also need to include documentation showing in-game stats. Quote:LP exchange rate for purposes of this example: 1679/LP. With this rate I can instantly sell the items I am buying and convert around 95% of the LP I gathered. For ease of this example I'll assume 100% because I will sell that LP on the next run at the same rate. The thing I don't like about all these 'X amount of ISK made per hour' threads is that LP's are always included to establish the total 'ISK per hr' amount yet there's never any specifics posted such as what items are being used, where and how those items are being sold.. Obviously it takes time and ISK to convert LP's into items which then needs to be resold for ISK. Doing that detracts from the average amount of ISK made per hr. Bottom line - there's a lot of different variables that affect the total amount of ISK made per hr average. What one player states isn't the same for other players. Skills, Ship used, Ship fitting, Combat tactics, Mission offers, etc, all affect the outcome. Not to mention posting an average amount of ISK made per hr gives a bad impression to others in that it looks like the norm for running missions. Anyway, thanks and gratz to Anize Oramara. Hope she has continued success in making that amount of ISK per hr average. DMC
She could also be one of the reasons why the SOE LP/Isk conversion rates are starting to decline.
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Spruillo
Spruillo Corp
37
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:05:11 -
[13] - Quote
I MADE LIKE 2.5B HR RUNNIN MISSIONS WALLET FLASHED N JITA ALT HAD SOLD 2 PLEX
PLAYIN SPACE TRUCKS VROOM VROOM
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King Aires
I'm Sexy And I Know It
54
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 01:08:23 -
[14] - Quote
Just for poops and shenanigans I decided to do this 3 hour adventure to see what the fuss was all about. I just happened to be in Ichoriya so I ran the double lvl 4 agent station in that .6 system.
I ran for 3 hours and 7 minutes. So I will round that down to 3 hours.
I did 22 burner missions in that time, or 7.3 per hour. I averaged 73029 lp per hour I will use that rather liberal number of 1700 Isk per LP unit I averaged 68,519,135 Isk per hour in my wallet after repair costs
I am not calculating out the ammo or lost drones
So I averaged 117,065,400 Isk worth of LP for a total of:
188,584,535 Isk per hour*
*Not including ammo, drones, time to sell LP Items and time to pee from all the Red BullGäó
Ok, But what I did find interesting is that the claims McAlty Farty Seller or whatever is pretty spot on... I killed my Caldari Navy standings.
I declined almost 200 missions, my Caldari State standings went from 6.05 to 5.89 in 3 hours. My Caldari Navy standings went from 9.8 to .35 in 3 hours. My Amarr faction standings dropped from 5.55 to 5.48
This simply isn't sustainable. And doing the storylines isn't going to help as they would tank my Gallente/Min standings and reduce my isk per hour anyways. Besides, I don't know if I would get enough storylines to cover the standings hits anyways.
The thing that stood out the most was the Corp standings, those things tanked so fast. 4 out of every 5 Burner offers was for Low Sec, declining those are free, but then you have to round your way through the regular missions to get another Burner.
End of story, at least for me... This is not a permanent thing. I find it unsustainable long term. Good Isk injection in the short term. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1909
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 03:28:35 -
[15] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:She could also be one of the reasons why the SOE LP/Isk conversion rates are starting to decline.
there are 100s (1000s?) of SoE mission runners. and anytime anyone asks who to run for people almost immediately say SoE. the blitzing lp glut maybe is quickening the decline of LP, but I wouldn't say is the main reason.
King Aires wrote:Just for poops and shenanigans I decided to do this 3 hour adventure to see what the fuss was all about. I just happened to be in Ichoriya so I ran the double lvl 4 agent station in that .6 system.
I ran for 3 hours and 7 minutes. So I will round that down to 3 hours.
I did 22 burner missions in that time, or 7.3 per hour. I averaged 73029 lp per hour I will use that rather liberal number of 1700 Isk per LP unit I averaged 68,519,135 Isk per hour in my wallet after repair costs
I am not calculating out the ammo or lost drones
So I averaged 117,065,400 Isk worth of LP for a total of:
188,584,535 Isk per hour*
*Not including ammo, drones, time to sell LP Items and time to pee from all the Red BullGäó
Ok, But what I did find interesting is that the claims McAlty Farty Seller or whatever is pretty spot on... I killed my Caldari Navy standings.
I declined almost 200 missions, my Caldari State standings went from 6.05 to 5.89 in 3 hours. My Caldari Navy standings went from 9.8 to .35 in 3 hours. My Amarr faction standings dropped from 5.55 to 5.48
This simply isn't sustainable. And doing the storylines isn't going to help as they would tank my Gallente/Min standings and reduce my isk per hour anyways. Besides, I don't know if I would get enough storylines to cover the standings hits anyways.
The thing that stood out the most was the Corp standings, those things tanked so fast. 4 out of every 5 Burner offers was for Low Sec, declining those are free, but then you have to round your way through the regular missions to get another Burner.
End of story, at least for me... This is not a permanent thing. I find it unsustainable long term. Good Isk injection in the short term.
188.5 isn't far off of 200, a few small improvements would put it over. Running in Ichoriya is a terrible idea for burners as it is nearly surround by lowsec, no wonder you burned through your standings. burners give good standings increases and declining them means you are declining a whole bunch more standard missions to get the next burner.
corp standing is almost irrelevant, as long as it doesn't go below -2.0 you can continue running. That said you may want to preserve CN standing for jita benefits, but you probably shouldn't be running CN missions for isk anyways.
Pretty sure the 6.05 to 5.89 drop in faction standings will be repaired with one combat storyline, maybe even more (I remember getting a 0.20 point boost from one, and that was with higher standings). IMO opposing standings barely matter. can always just go fix it later. and if Gal/Min standings are the ones you are worried about SoE missions will fix that. Derived standings bottom out at -5 anyways.
the blitzing play style is sustainable, if slightly bad standings with other empires is the only downside I can see, and that is pretty much always a mission running problem.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
163
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 04:14:09 -
[16] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:She could also be one of the reasons why the SOE LP/Isk conversion rates are starting to decline.
there are 100s (1000s?) of SoE mission runners. and anytime anyone asks who to run for people almost immediately say SoE. the blitzing lp glut maybe is quickening the decline of LP, but I wouldn't say is the main reason. [quote=King Aires]
Yea it wasn't fair to single her out in particularity. I should've reworded that and said her style of LP blitzing could be the cause of the SOE LP/Isk conversion rate decline.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
666
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 04:37:04 -
[17] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:She could also be one of the reasons why the SOE LP/Isk conversion rates are starting to decline.
there are 100s (1000s?) of SoE mission runners. and anytime anyone asks who to run for people almost immediately say SoE. the blitzing lp glut maybe is quickening the decline of LP, but I wouldn't say is the main reason. [quote=King Aires] Yea it wasn't fair to single her out in particularity. I should've reworded that and said her style of LP blitzing could be the cause of the SOE LP/Isk conversion rate decline.
It is 100% true that the LP values continue to decline. It is also 100% true that any and all calculations are heavily dependent on market conditions, social skills and agent location.
Since the prevailing calculations of the day point to 2:1 LP Isk to Raw Isk ratio I would be very concerned that mission income has no where to go but down. If the LP market were to take a significant drop, missioning would be in a world of hurt.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1910
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 06:16:51 -
[18] - Quote
I think LP is a good mechanic as buying stuff with LP and then trading that stuff is an isk sink. And if LP gets too easy to farm it's value will go down on its own. Also if many people start blitzing a certain mission its reward will go down, and rejected missions value goes up.
the other thing with LP is with quick easy to search websites like fuzzwork and CONCORD lp, incursion runners can cash out quickly anywhere a good isk/lp ratio pops up. I haven't done any incursions in a while but the top earners were making 500k+ LP. It doesn't look like there are a lot of good ways to spend a few million concord LP. the meta cap mods look like decent isk/lp earners but I question the volume. when there are 3 highsec incursions going and 2 are just getting farmed, I wonder how much concord LP is being generated, and how much it influences other LP stores. I imagine if I ran incursions I'd have a mil or two LP stashed (at least) to convert when the opportunity arises.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
471
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Posted - 2015.10.18 10:24:36 -
[19] - Quote
The system you run in can make as much as 50mill/h difference, even if you compare two different SOE systems.
I've measured myself the exact same way 3 times so far since I've moved to my current system, this thread being the 3rd time. Each time was a 3h run. The first run was 210m/h, no ship losses, the 2nd run was 235mill/h no ship losses and the results of the 3rd run is in the OP. I guess I can do another run, though at this point I'm sure it will make little difference to anyone.
So far each time I have measured myself I have been able to make over 200mill. In the last month+ that I have been running SOE in this system I have not once had to run normal lv4 missions apart form the ones I always run (8 missions). Nor have I had to use an alt to pull missions. This has been 100% solo.
Regarding faction standing I have stopped running storylines pretty much completely, since I'm at over 8 faction standing. My agent standing usually averages out at atound 3-4. Sometimes it goes as high as 6 or as low as 1-2 after a very, very bad mission streak. Even then to get to -2 I'd need to decline something like 15+ missions in a row with no burners. Burners rarely spawn in LS so something like that has never happened and probably will never.
Converting LP to isk currently takes me 1-2min and the value I used is far from optimal. If I was willing to wait for the items to sell I'd be looking at 1720+ or if I was willing to transport the items and sell to buy orders a little bit more. Obviously if I wanted to go all out and put up sell orders I could make even more but trading is not my thing.
The thing about Mission running, blitzing in particular, is that pretty much all of the variables can be either fully controlled or through sheer brute force of numbers remove all impact of them on income. I wish I was the 'reason' SOE LP seem to be on a slightly downward trend. That would be a cool thought but I am only one of hundreds or thousands. To be fair it keeps on bouncing back up somehow. The apatite for SOE modules and ships is a little disturbing to my mind, I mean where the heck does it all go?
For the foreseeable future though this CAN be the norm for running missions. That's the whole point of all of this. Theres an initial skill, time and isk investment, for sure but none of the skills are skills a normal combat pilot would not have access to. The skills are actually exactly what most mission running and PvP combat pilots alike would want to have on their characters. Best part is as your skills increase you can slowly do more and more of the burners, or do them faster and faster. Even my own skills are far from optimal.
Meh I'll do another run sometime this week. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1571
|
Posted - 2015.10.18 22:50:22 -
[20] - Quote
Just a note on blitzing the Recons.
The returns on 2 and 3 are indeed poor but both are very quick with a MJD.
In recon 2 you MJD within about 3 or 4 km of the mission completion gate. In recon 3 you MJD past the exit gate but only have about 18km to burn back for mission completion. |
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12747
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Posted - 2015.10.18 23:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Just a note on blitzing the Recons.
The returns on 2 and 3 are indeed poor but both are very quick with a MJD.
In recon 2 you MJD within about 3 or 4 km of the mission completion gate. In recon 3 you MJD past the exit gate but only have about 18km to burn back for mission completion.
Erm, I just do recon in a frigate with an mwd.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1915
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 00:07:54 -
[22] - Quote
warp speed ceptor works fine for the 2 & 3 recon missions. My raptor fit makes it out of recon 3 at 1/2 shields. one heated mwd cycle and you are ramming into the warp gate. I've heard of people doing it in a slasher.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Major Doppler
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.19 06:02:18 -
[23] - Quote
I see many people are trying to measure their average ISK per hour. Here are my last 250 completed missions. (in alphabetical order for easier reading) I can do this more or less indefinitely. I have done between 300 and 500 missions since I had to fix my agent standings. Fixing agent standings takes 5min a day and 5 days max to fix (usually between 2 to 3). Mission running is done with single character. No alts are used even when fixing standings.
Also I did measure theoretical isk per hour in 14 one hour sessions ( session lasted between 59min and 63min ) last month. how is it calculated? ISK at the end -ISK at the start + 1.6mil per 1k LP +loot -any costs and fees ( loot calculation and any other costs and fees not included below. That is why numbers are bit lower when just calculating LP + ISK)
327mil per hour ( 117874LP + 128mil ) ISK 333mil per hour ( 139874LP + 122mil ) ISK 318mil per hour ( 114751LP + 119mil ) ISK 313mil per hour ( 129390LP + 102mil ) ISK 311mil per hour ( 121504LP + 120mil ) ISK 342mil per hour ( 148324LP + 108mil ) ISK 351mil per hour ( 138908LP + 144mil ) ISK 336mil per hour ( 90785LP + 79mil ) ISK + 110mil implant (storyline mission) 268mil per hour ( 115186LP + 77mil ) ISK (server lag and 1 socket close) also 1 burner mission (4 jumps away) because of lower than usual agent standings) 323mil per hour ( 138952LP + 93mil ) ISK 305mil per hour ( 113607LP + 127mil ) ISK 353mil per hour ( 149222LP + 118mil ) ISK 314mil per hour ( 128612LP + 97mil ) ISK 320mil per hour ( 131057LP + 125mil ) ISK
average 322mil per hour
Loot, ammo cost, lost drones and repair costs are included. Courier cost and any fees when selling items is also included.
Not included is time to: 1.) Research what item is best when converting. 2.) Accquiring required items to convert LP. (I am also buying ammo, cap booster and drones when doing this) 3.) Converting items in LP store. 4.) Transporting items to market hub. 5.) Selling items in market hub.
Now to measuring true isk per hour 1.) takes 2minutes max. ( using website http://evefight.com ) 2.) takes 5minutes max. ( includes setting up courier using market hub alt ) 3.) takes 3minutes max. 4.) takes 5minutes max. ( private contract to alt, then alt makes courier contract ) 5.) also 5minutes max. ( using buy orders cannot be bothered to babysit sell orders )
Now I usually do this for every 1mil LP Accquiring 1mil LP takes around 8hours. so 20 minutes for every 8 hours running missions. average was 322mil per hour 322mil x 8 ( 480min ) =2576mil 2576mil / 500min = 5,152mil 5,512 x 480 = 2472.96mil 2472.96 / 8 = 309,12 mil per hour True isk per hour is 309,12mil.
But you are using alt character for moving, selling items, buying requried items for mission running! Well it is on the same account created some time ago with near minimal skills.
Conclusion: With highly skilled characters, Ascendancy implants and optimised ship setups it is possible to earn near or above 300mil isk per hour in high sec with single account.
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King Aires
I'm Sexy And I Know It
55
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 06:50:50 -
[24] - Quote
Major Doppler wrote:I see many people are trying to measure their average ISK per hour. Here are my last 250 completed missions. (in alphabetical order for easier reading) I can do this more or less indefinitely. I have done between 300 and 500 missions since I had to fix my agent standings. Fixing agent standings takes 5min a day and 5 days max to fix (usually between 2 to 3). Mission running is done with single character. No alts are used even when fixing standings. Also I did measure theoretical isk per hour in 14 one hour sessions ( session lasted between 59min and 63min ) last month. how is it calculated? ISK at the end -ISK at the start + 1.6mil per 1k LP +loot -any costs and fees ( loot calculation and any other costs and fees not included below. That is why numbers are bit lower when just calculating LP + ISK) 327mil per hour ( 117874LP + 128mil ) ISK 333mil per hour ( 139874LP + 122mil ) ISK 318mil per hour ( 114751LP + 119mil ) ISK 313mil per hour ( 129390LP + 102mil ) ISK 311mil per hour ( 121504LP + 120mil ) ISK 342mil per hour ( 148324LP + 108mil ) ISK 351mil per hour ( 138908LP + 144mil ) ISK 336mil per hour ( 90785LP + 79mil ) ISK + 110mil implant (storyline mission) 268mil per hour ( 115186LP + 77mil ) ISK (server lag and 1 socket close) also 1 burner mission (4 jumps away) because of lower than usual agent standings) 323mil per hour ( 138952LP + 93mil ) ISK 305mil per hour ( 113607LP + 127mil ) ISK 353mil per hour ( 149222LP + 118mil ) ISK 314mil per hour ( 128612LP + 97mil ) ISK 320mil per hour ( 131057LP + 125mil ) ISK average 322mil per hour Loot, ammo cost, lost drones and repair costs are included. Courier cost and any fees when selling items is also included. Not included is time to: 1.) Research what item is best when converting. 2.) Accquiring required items to convert LP. (I am also buying ammo, cap booster and drones when doing this) 3.) Converting items in LP store. 4.) Transporting items to market hub. 5.) Selling items in market hub. Now to measuring true isk per hour 1.) takes 2minutes max. ( using website http://evefight.com ) 2.) takes 5minutes max. ( includes setting up courier using market hub alt ) 3.) takes 3minutes max. 4.) takes 5minutes max. ( private contract to alt, then alt makes courier contract ) 5.) also 5minutes max. ( using buy orders cannot be bothered to babysit sell orders ) Now I usually do this for every 1mil LP Accquiring 1mil LP takes around 8hours. so 20 minutes for every 8 hours running missions. average was 322mil per hour 322mil x 8 ( 480min ) =2576mil 2576mil / 500min = 5,152mil 5,512 x 480 = 2472.96mil 2472.96 / 8 = 309,12 mil per hour True isk per hour is 309,12mil. But you are using alt character for moving, selling items, buying requried items for mission running! Well it is on the same account created some time ago with near minimal skills. Conclusion: With highly skilled characters, Ascendancy implants and optimised ship setups it is possible to earn near or above 300mil isk per hour in high sec with single account.
Whoa... I don't mean to sound like a troll but I have to call some of that into question. 200mil, 250mil per hour, sure. 322? not with those numbers.
You have 140k+LP in one hour... how?!
Lets put it like this, that is roughly 12-14 burners... lets just say 12.
60 minutes / 12 = 5 minutes per burner.
Considering your undock/dock timer is 30 seconds, Frigate align time is 4 seconds and even the shortest of warps would be 10 seconds.
You have a minimum of 45 seconds in navigation if, and this is a big if, you were running in your agent system.
Now take into account the fastest anyone has ever completed a Burner mission (And proved it) was 2 minutes flat... and that is only before the changes to the enyo fits. The daredevil unified time to kill alone is averaged over 2.5 minutes.
Then you are telling me you never have to change ships? Another timer You never have to decline missions? Takes 6 seconds to decline and ask for a new mission You never have to jump gates?
I don't see how anyone could "Average" 12 missions per hour. You might get lucky one hour, but there have been several posts with the average somewhere in the high 7's, maybe even 8's.
I just don't think your numbers hold up. Can we see a screen shot with some times in there? Ticks on your wallet maybe?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1915
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 07:30:24 -
[25] - Quote
if the burner mission pays out 14k LP then it is 10 burner missions, and as they average ~6mins that is doable. with burner bases I'd say it is on the high side of average, but burner bases pay out more in isk, so you make up for it there.
my stats are a little worse, but that is because 1. I run in a higher sec status system so less LP payout, and I think slightly less payout/reward 2. I cheap out on a few ship fits so I lose a minute or two here and there.
200, 250, 300, eh what's the difference, I've run out of things to care about making a little bit of isk.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Major Doppler
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 07:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
King Aires wrote:
You have 140k+LP in one hour... how?!
10 burners missions. One burner mission is usually 14.2k LP.
Here are my times from when I measured time starting with clicking accept mission to complete mission ( 2jumps )
Burner Angel 4min 35s 4min 45s 4min 34s 4min 21s 4min 7s
Burner Blood (should a bit lower now since I optimised ship setup further ( atleast 20s to 40s) 7min 22s
Burner Gurista 6min 10s 6min 6s 6min 8s 5min 23s 6min 4s
Burner Sansha 5min 15s 5min 5min 8s 5min 4min 26s (Ascendency implants) 4min 43s
Burner Serpentis 4min 40s 4min 52s 4min 54s 5min 4s 4min 59s 4min 26s (Ascendency implants)
Team Enyo 5min 9s 5min 50s 6min 12s
Team Jaguar 5min 50s 5min 36s 5min 58s
Team Vengeance 5min 26s Team Vengeance 6min 20s
Team Hawk 5min 6min 13s 5min 17s 5min 41s 4min 42s 4min 58s 5min 10s |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
471
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 09:07:52 -
[27] - Quote
I wouldn't have believed it before but it's certainly possible. I run more of the normal mission even though they're around half the income / min of burners and isn't strictly nessesary and my skills are far from optimal. My ship fits aren't all max blinged out either so some burners take a bit longer than necessary. Because of the high rep speed and relative low total HP of burners compared to normal Lv4 missions people are used to, a small increase in dps can actually have a pretty sizable impact on speed to kill.
What implants apart form ascendancies are you using? Interested to see what your're boosting. My guess would be rockets? Or do you use light missiles for the team burners?
Also the blood burner is currently my biggest pita. Using a cap injected armor wolf? |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 18:05:54 -
[28] - Quote
Major Doppler wrote:King Aires wrote:
You have 140k+LP in one hour... how?!
10 burners missions. One burner mission is usually 14.2k LP. Here are my times from when I measured time starting with clicking accept mission to complete mission ( 2jumps ) Burner Angel 4min 35s 4min 45s 4min 34s 4min 21s 4min 7s Burner Blood (should a bit lower now since I optimised ship setup further ( atleast 20s to 40s) 7min 22s Burner Gurista 6min 10s 6min 6s 6min 8s 5min 23s 6min 4s Burner Sansha 5min 15s 5min 5min 8s 5min 4min 26s (Ascendency implants) 4min 43s Burner Serpentis 4min 40s 4min 52s 4min 54s 5min 4s 4min 59s 4min 26s (Ascendency implants) Team Enyo 5min 9s 5min 50s 6min 12s Team Jaguar 5min 50s 5min 36s 5min 58s Team Vengeance 5min 26s Team Vengeance 6min 20s Team Hawk 5min 6min 13s 5min 17s 5min 41s 4min 42s 4min 58s 5min 10s King Aires wrote: Can we see a screen shot with some times in there? Ticks on your wallet maybe?
This is from yesterdays session.
Wait a second, why did you block out the hour and date?
Not that it matters, 200mil, 300mil nothing to spend it on in this game anymore anyways.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 18:08:52 -
[29] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:I wouldn't have believed it before but it's certainly possible. I run more of the normal mission even though they're around half the income / min of burners and isn't strictly nessesary and my skills are far from optimal. My ship fits aren't all max blinged out either so some burners take a bit longer than necessary. Because of the high rep speed and relative low total HP of burners compared to normal Lv4 missions people are used to, a small increase in dps can actually have a pretty sizable impact on speed to kill.
What implants apart form ascendancies are you using? Interested to see what your're boosting. My guess would be rockets? Or do you use light missiles for the team burners?
Also the blood burner is currently my biggest pita. Using a cap injected armor wolf?
Blood burner is easy in a passive Jag.
[Jaguar, Burner Cruor] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender Dark Blood Stasis Webifier
200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher
Small Core Defense Field Purger II Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Hail S x360 Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x56
Just keep your web on him as much as possible between neut cycles. Goes down like a bag of Jenn's
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12753
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 18:23:22 -
[30] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Just keep your web on him as much as possible between neut cycles. Goes down like a bag of Jenn's
I didn't know me and yo momma shared the same 1st name. That's amazing!
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 18:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Just keep your web on him as much as possible between neut cycles. Goes down like a bag of Jenn's
I didn't know me and yo momma shared the same 1st name. That's amazing!
Not bad, I wondered if that would get your attention.
For every Ying, there is a Yang :)
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 20:59:57 -
[32] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Blood burner is easy in a passive Jag.
[Jaguar, Burner Cruor] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender Dark Blood Stasis Webifier
200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher
Small Core Defense Field Purger II Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Hail S x360 Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x56
Just keep your web on him as much as possible between neut cycles. Goes down like a bag of Jenn's
use basically the same jag but 33 hp/s "can be " not enough. lost one somedays during a smashing spree. just saying. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 21:05:42 -
[33] - Quote
Ploing wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: Blood burner is easy in a passive Jag.
[Jaguar, Burner Cruor] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender Dark Blood Stasis Webifier
200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher
Small Core Defense Field Purger II Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Hail S x360 Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x56
Just keep your web on him as much as possible between neut cycles. Goes down like a bag of Jenn's
use basically the same jag but 33 hp/s "can be " not enough. lost one somedays during a smashing spree. just saying.
Check again. Against the Burner you have over 220 ehp/s and the Burner only does 179dps...
If you lost it, you had something offline You can tank forever until DT if you forget ammo or something.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 21:20:44 -
[34] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Ploing wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: Blood burner is easy in a passive Jag.
[Jaguar, Burner Cruor] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender Dark Blood Stasis Webifier
200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher
Small Core Defense Field Purger II Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Hail S x360 Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x56
Just keep your web on him as much as possible between neut cycles. Goes down like a bag of Jenn's
use basically the same jag but 33 hp/s "can be " not enough. lost one somedays during a smashing spree. just saying. Check again. Against the Burner you have over 220 ehp/s and the Burner only does 179dps... If you lost it, you had something offline You can tank forever until DT if you forget ammo or something. there is nothing to offline tankbased i know the stats. fit worked so far for 50 burners as it pops. cruor had like 20 smashing hits that time.
at how many % did your shield stay normal ? |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1923
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 21:27:27 -
[35] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Wait a second, why did you block out the hour and date?
Not that it matters, 200mil, 300mil nothing to spend it on in this game anymore anyways.
given how shiny some of the burner fits can get a little opsec isn't a bad idea. not giving away their active times isn't a bad idea.
here's one from me http://i.imgur.com/GuIbxNm.png bonus link, have some mission names: http://i.imgur.com/o2ycSo9.png (just in case anyone wants to tell me blitzing is unsustainable standings wise, although I did gone berserk on 10.5, 9.17, 9.15 and cba to go back more from there)
it goes back a while as I haven't really been running anywhere near consistently lately. I can't say if any inefficiencies were caused by controllable distractions (ie forum posting, **** breaks, refilling the drink, other breaks, updating buy/sell orders), piloting mistakes (ie burn out guns, mess up transversal, activate the mods in the wrong order, or forget timely heat), or dumb luck (ie not getting a successful ECM jam, although over time that will average out)
in a number of cases I cheap out on ships/fittings, so some time could be made up there, and as I said I use ECM ships on most team burners, which are a bit variable in completion times. According to eve-search I had 23 forum posts on 9.25, I'd say that is a decent level of distractions.
I believe over 300 is doable, but requires specific things. over 200 should be pretty widely reproducible. and 180ish should be doable almost anywhere.
I think it is reasonably fair to simplify burners into 30mil blocks. Breaking it down into 5mil bounty, 5mil in reward+bonus, 20mil in LP I'd say it is about fair or perhaps slightly under current LP rewards and trade values. so to hit 300mil/hour that requires 10 missions, or a 6min average. If I drop down to a 7m completion time that is ~8.5/hour, or 255mil/hour.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 21:41:16 -
[36] - Quote
Keep posting that crazy numbers till fozzie reads it and nerf more the high sec activities, because i believe at every DT they nerfing something |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:26:40 -
[37] - Quote
Ploing wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Ploing wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: Blood burner is easy in a passive Jag.
[Jaguar, Burner Cruor] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender Dark Blood Stasis Webifier
200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II 200mm AutoCannon II Caldari Navy Rocket Launcher
Small Core Defense Field Purger II Small Core Defense Field Purger II
Hail S x360 Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x56
Just keep your web on him as much as possible between neut cycles. Goes down like a bag of Jenn's
use basically the same jag but 33 hp/s "can be " not enough. lost one somedays during a smashing spree. just saying. Check again. Against the Burner you have over 220 ehp/s and the Burner only does 179dps... If you lost it, you had something offline You can tank forever until DT if you forget ammo or something. there is nothing to offline tankbased i know the stats. fit worked so far for 50 burners as it pops. cruor had like 20 smashing hits that time. at how many % did your shield stay normal ?
Ran two today. First one was stable at just under 50% and the second was closer to 33%
I was having real bad luck with timing my web on the second one so it was taking longer than usual.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1923
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:27:53 -
[38] - Quote
Atomeon wrote:Keep posting that crazy numbers till fozzie reads it and nerf more the high sec activities, because i believe at every DT they nerfing something I'm mostly convinced they need some sort of nerf, but I haven't seen the burners killboard either
@ChainsawPlankto
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:30:29 -
[39] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Wait a second, why did you block out the hour and date?
Not that it matters, 200mil, 300mil nothing to spend it on in this game anymore anyways.
given how shiny some of the burner fits can get a little opsec isn't a bad idea. not giving away their active times isn't a bad idea. here's one from me http://i.imgur.com/GuIbxNm.png bonus link, have some mission names: http://i.imgur.com/o2ycSo9.png (just in case anyone wants to tell me blitzing is unsustainable standings wise, although I did gone berserk on 10.5, 9.17, 9.15 and cba to go back more from there) it goes back a while as I haven't really been running anywhere near consistently lately. I can't say if any inefficiencies were caused by controllable distractions (ie forum posting, **** breaks, refilling the drink, other breaks, updating buy/sell orders), piloting mistakes (ie burn out guns, mess up transversal, activate the mods in the wrong order, or forget timely heat), or dumb luck (ie not getting a successful ECM jam, although over time that will average out) in a number of cases I cheap out on ships/fittings, so some time could be made up there, and as I said I use ECM ships on most team burners, which are a bit variable in completion times. According to eve-search I had 23 forum posts on 9.25, I'd say that is a decent level of distractions. I believe over 300 is doable, but requires specific things. over 200 should be pretty widely reproducible. and 180ish should be doable almost anywhere. I think it is reasonably fair to simplify burners into 30mil blocks. Breaking it down into 5mil bounty, 5mil in reward+bonus, 20mil in LP I'd say it is about fair or perhaps slightly under current LP rewards and trade values. so to hit 300mil/hour that requires 10 missions, or a 6min average. If I drop down to a 7m completion time that is ~8.5/hour, or 255mil/hour.
Those are far more accurate numbers to what many have reported. Like it was said before, and like I posted on post #3, 7.6 is the average Jori was getting. 8 seems to be a good number to use for a highly skilled and well seasoned mission vet.
Assuming all goes well and you get lucky 9 would be the max I could ever accept as average.
But 10, of the perfect quality burners that give the 14k lp dumps... no way, not that consistently. Hiding the hours on the screenshot confirmed my suspicions. Hell I ran Burners all day today, was quite fun... but not once did I get one within 5 jumps of my agent. I was averaging 10 minutes a damn mission.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:32:08 -
[40] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Atomeon wrote:Keep posting that crazy numbers till fozzie reads it and nerf more the high sec activities, because i believe at every DT they nerfing something I'm mostly convinced they need some sort of nerf, but I haven't seen the burners killboard either
I don't have time to find it... but it was reported earlier this year that the Burners are killing us at a very good rate. Now its getting easier to run since we are getting more established. But I wanna say that earlier it was like 1/5 attempts ended in a lost player ship.
I will try and find it later.
Also, the LP market is going to tank since the probe changes... now its almost impossible to lose them.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:34:29 -
[41] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Ran two today. First one was stable at just under 50% and the second was closer to 33%
I was having real bad luck with timing my web on the second one so it was taking longer than usual.
second one at 33 is more impotant. means he nearly breaks your tank. will only say its a bit dangerous, but anyhow we are at the wrong thread |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
668
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:38:16 -
[42] - Quote
Ploing wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: Ran two today. First one was stable at just under 50% and the second was closer to 33%
I was having real bad luck with timing my web on the second one so it was taking longer than usual.
second one at 33 is more impotant. means he nearly breaks your tank. will only say its a bit dangerous, but anyhow we are at the wrong thread
Not really. Burners are lvl 4. And 33% is where your recharge starts to shine... now if I was at 22% sure I would be getting concerned. But it never gets to the peak recharge because MATHS
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:46:07 -
[43] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Ploing wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: Ran two today. First one was stable at just under 50% and the second was closer to 33%
I was having real bad luck with timing my web on the second one so it was taking longer than usual.
second one at 33 is more impotant. means he nearly breaks your tank. will only say its a bit dangerous, but anyhow we are at the wrong thread Not really. Burners are lvl 4. And 33% is where your recharge starts to shine... now if I was at 22% sure I would be getting concerned. But it never gets to the peak recharge because MATHS
i know that they shine at that peak and told it to people that had concerns about it. but you know sometimes burners act a bit crazy.
anyway the fit paid of 50 times
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1574
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 22:54:32 -
[44] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:[quote=Chainsaw Plankton]
Also, the LP market is going to tank since the probe changes... now its almost impossible to lose them.
People losing probes never explained the ongoing high demand for the launchers.
I have always suspected the probe market is powered by all those new players going into low sec based on the exciting tutorial descriptions of exploration and trying to make up for low skills with good probes. Its not that they lose the probes, they lose entire ships to people on losec roams (or just get bored of exploration and park the ship and probes and go do something else).
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
472
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 23:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:But 10, of the perfect quality burners that give the 14k lp dumps... no way, not that consistently. Hiding the hours on the screenshot confirmed my suspicions. Hell I ran Burners all day today, was quite fun... but not once did I get one within 5 jumps of my agent. I was averaging 10 minutes a damn mission.
Now you're just being paranoid. Unless he managed to perfectly time it for dozens upon dozens of hours so that it showed 6-7 min? I mean come on, at some point even you have to realize what you're saying and how absolutely absurd it is.
Also you're in the wrong system. Burners are 1-3 jumps from where I mission. 80% of the time its 2 jumps. Now do the calcs based on having to do 8-10(back and forth counted as 2) fewer jumps per burner. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1574
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 23:35:18 -
[46] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:
Also you're in the wrong system. Burners are 1-3 jumps from where I mission. 80% of the time its 2 jumps. Now do the calcs based on having to do 8-10(back and forth counted as 2) fewer jumps per burner.
I get 0-1 jump with the odd 2 jump one occasionally and very very rare 3 jumps, never had more than 3 jumps. Never had a lowsec burner either. |
Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 23:41:20 -
[47] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:
Also you're in the wrong system. Burners are 1-3 jumps from where I mission. 80% of the time its 2 jumps. Now do the calcs based on having to do 8-10(back and forth counted as 2) fewer jumps per burner.
I get 0-1 jump with the odd 2 jump one occasionally and very very rare 3 jumps, never had more than 3 jumps. Never had a lowsec burner either.
kidding me? most burners are 4-6 jumps from agent. rare 0,1,2 jumps
perhaps this is a pattern |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
472
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 23:46:32 -
[48] - Quote
Ploing wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:
Also you're in the wrong system. Burners are 1-3 jumps from where I mission. 80% of the time its 2 jumps. Now do the calcs based on having to do 8-10(back and forth counted as 2) fewer jumps per burner.
I get 0-1 jump with the odd 2 jump one occasionally and very very rare 3 jumps, never had more than 3 jumps. Never had a lowsec burner either. kidding me? most burners are 4-6 jumps from agent. rare 0,1,2 jumps perhaps this is a pattern There is no pattern, nothing. It is controlled by one single factor; where you are. Move to one of the other mission hubs and the distance to the burners will most likely change. I will know, I used to get 6-8 jumps most of the in LS. However I moved and now it's 1-3 jumps. |
Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 23:48:47 -
[49] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Ploing wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:
Also you're in the wrong system. Burners are 1-3 jumps from where I mission. 80% of the time its 2 jumps. Now do the calcs based on having to do 8-10(back and forth counted as 2) fewer jumps per burner.
I get 0-1 jump with the odd 2 jump one occasionally and very very rare 3 jumps, never had more than 3 jumps. Never had a lowsec burner either. kidding me? most burners are 4-6 jumps from agent. rare 0,1,2 jumps perhaps this is a pattern There is no pattern, nothing. It is controlled by one single factor; where you are. Move to one of the other mission hubs and the distance to the burners will most likely change. I will know, I used to get 6-8 jumps most of the in LS. However I moved and now it's 1-3 jumps.
hmm...observe this
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1923
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 01:05:09 -
[50] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Atomeon wrote:Keep posting that crazy numbers till fozzie reads it and nerf more the high sec activities, because i believe at every DT they nerfing something I'm mostly convinced they need some sort of nerf, but I haven't seen the burners killboard either I don't have time to find it... but it was reported earlier this year that the Burners are killing us at a very good rate. Now its getting easier to run since we are getting more established. But I wanna say that earlier it was like 1/5 attempts ended in a lost player ship. I will try and find it later. Also, the LP market is going to tank since the probe changes... now its almost impossible to lose them. if I remember right it was a devblog about a year ago now. if there is something more recent I would be interested in seeing it.
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Those are far more accurate numbers to what many have reported. Like it was said before, and like I posted on post #3, 7.6 is the average Jori was getting. 8 seems to be a good number to use for a highly skilled and well seasoned mission vet.
Assuming all goes well and you get lucky 9 would be the max I could ever accept as average.
But 10, of the perfect quality burners that give the 14k lp dumps... no way, not that consistently. Hiding the hours on the screenshot confirmed my suspicions. Hell I ran Burners all day today, was quite fun... but not once did I get one within 5 jumps of my agent. I was averaging 10 minutes a damn mission.
wasn't it 7.6 burners/hour plus a number of other missions in Jorie's post? I think he had 6-7 non burner missions in his pool of accepted missions, been a while since I read that thread.
the 10 burners/hour is a very specific pull where you only run frig sized burners as those are the ones that average ~6 mins each. 2/14 of their posted 1 hour samples had 140k+ lp. Showing that it isn't a consistent pull, but it can happen. Burner bases take slightly longer but pay out more in isk not moving the overall average much, but lowering the LP/hour. Also running other missions like dread pirate increase isk lower LP, and give you a 8mil implant. then there are missions like the assault which are just worse in every way, but are sometimes needed to keep standings in check.
All my agent standings are positive, I could probably decline The Assault more often than I do, but as I said earlier, just running it every time is shows up means I don't have to frequently check standings.
and the 5+ jumps is where my 180 figure came from, I remember averaging 10mins/burner with those conditions. can't say how many optimizations I've made since then, or how many slight nerfs (when did the LML nerf happen?)
Hasikan Miallok wrote:I have always suspected the probe market is powered by all those new players going into low sec based on the exciting tutorial descriptions of exploration and trying to make up for low skills with good probes. Its not that they lose the probes, they lose entire ships to people on losec roams (or just get bored of exploration and park the ship and probes and go do something else).
I have a lot of old parked ships
And yes there is a pattern, all dependent on where you are.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1575
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 01:21:20 -
[51] - Quote
The number of jumps is very much an artifact of where you are. Lanngisi is is a good example of a hub that rarely if ever sends you more than 3 jumps. Tricky to sustain a blitz though with only the one agent in system.
As far as 10 burners in an hour the random factor does come into it. I had one agent give me 6 burners in a row yesterday one after the other (though unfortunately several of those were the Dramiel base mission that I do not have a ship for) but I have also had runs of 20 or so missions with no burners offered at all |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1924
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 01:27:13 -
[52] - Quote
Ploing wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:
Also you're in the wrong system. Burners are 1-3 jumps from where I mission. 80% of the time its 2 jumps. Now do the calcs based on having to do 8-10(back and forth counted as 2) fewer jumps per burner.
I get 0-1 jump with the odd 2 jump one occasionally and very very rare 3 jumps, never had more than 3 jumps. Never had a lowsec burner either. kidding me? most burners are 4-6 jumps from agent. rare 0,1,2 jumps perhaps this is a pattern that is one of the things that annoys me about CONCORD lp being convertible to empire corps. there would be a lot of interesting corps to run missions for. If lp rates go over 1800 or so the most profitable thing to do with concord LP is to convert to that. moving to that system where I have to go 5 jumps and average 10mins/mission I have to get ~2800 isk/lp to get similar lp value to someone who is running ~6min average and converting at 1700 isk/lp. not even counting the extra reward/bounty from doing 4 more burners/hour
it just doesn't make sense to run missions outside a very small number of locations.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
706
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 02:56:42 -
[53] - Quote
It's burner missions that are really driving the ISK/hr for level 4s through the roof and breaking the LP market. They require a significant startup investment in properly fit ships to run them all consistently, but once you're set up and have mastered them it looks like one of the biggest ISK farms in the game...though somewhat self correctly as burner farming steadily crashes the market for LP items (SoE launchers have dropped around 5M/ISK per unit in the past 6 months).
So lets be clear...anyone making the argument that level 4 rewards are too high is talking about burners. You will be hard pressed to top 100M an hour running standard level 4's with one character. Trying to balance ISK generation to deter people who can invest a few billion ISK in ships to get rolling and have multiple characters devoted to the endeavor is just silly.
I personally never got into burners because the barrier to running them consistently is quite high. You either need to multibox (I don't) or invest a few billion ISK in a stable of shiny ships to deal with all of the burners, and you will probably lose a couple when you start out.
People make these "ISK/hr in highsec is too high" arguments and neglect to mention all the other factors in play. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
706
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 02:59:40 -
[54] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Ploing wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:
Also you're in the wrong system. Burners are 1-3 jumps from where I mission. 80% of the time its 2 jumps. Now do the calcs based on having to do 8-10(back and forth counted as 2) fewer jumps per burner.
I get 0-1 jump with the odd 2 jump one occasionally and very very rare 3 jumps, never had more than 3 jumps. Never had a lowsec burner either. kidding me? most burners are 4-6 jumps from agent. rare 0,1,2 jumps perhaps this is a pattern that is one of the things that annoys me about CONCORD lp being convertible to empire corps. there would be a lot of interesting corps to run missions for. If lp rates go over 1800 or so the most profitable thing to do with concord LP is to convert to that. moving to that system where I have to go 5 jumps and average 10mins/mission I have to get ~2800 isk/lp to get similar lp value to someone who is running ~6min average and converting at 1700 isk/lp. not even counting the extra reward/bounty from doing 4 more burners/hour it just doesn't make sense to run missions outside a very small number of locations.
The tags requirement on many LP items needs to be looked out. The vast majority of items in empire LP stores are unprofitable because of tags. I frankly don't know how some of the faction modules end up on the market for the prices they do because even if you're willing to play .01 games the conversion rate is like 800-1000 ISK/LP at best.
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1576
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 03:55:47 -
[55] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
So lets be clear...anyone making the argument that level 4 rewards are too high is talking about burners. You will be hard pressed to top 100M an hour running standard level 4's with one character. Trying to balance ISK generation to deter people who can invest a few billion ISK in ships to get rolling and have multiple characters devoted to the endeavor is just silly.
.
To be honest you do not need to spend anything like that to cover most of the single and team burners if you are happy to take 6 minutes instead of three.
The real barrier for the average mission runners is initially skills. Most peoples mission alts do not have the racial frigates or cruisers to V or assault frigates to V or thermodynamics V or any significant points invested in EWAR skills. These are all relatively cheap to train but a lvl IV mission alt has generally trained none of them.
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Major Doppler
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 04:06:29 -
[56] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote: 200, 250, 300, eh what's the difference, I've run out of things to care about making a little bit of isk.
That is a bit ignorant thing to say considering there is 50% difference between 200 and 300.
Anize Oramara wrote: What implants apart form ascendancies are you using? Interested to see what your're boosting. My guess would be rockets? Or do you use light missiles for the team burners? Also the blood burner is currently my biggest pita. Using a cap injected armor wolf?
I am still using same implants before burner missions were introduced ( they were quite expensive), apart from asc. implants which I started to use more recently. So no implants that increase damage to small weapons ( hybrid, projectile, laser, light missiles or rockets). As for team burners I use both light missiles and rockets. Rockets are definitely faster for 2 of the team burners for other 2 light missiles seem to be more consistent. Yes I use cap injected armor wolf for blood burner.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Wait a second, why did you block out the hour and date? Those are far more accurate numbers to what many have reported. Like it was said before, and like I posted on post #3, 7.6 is the average Jori was getting. 8 seems to be a good number to use for a highly skilled and well seasoned mission vet.
Assuming all goes well and you get lucky 9 would be the max I could ever accept as average.
But 10, of the perfect quality burners that give the 14k lp dumps... no way, not that consistently. Hiding the hours on the screenshot confirmed my suspicions. Hell I ran Burners all day today, was quite fun... but not once did I get one within 5 jumps of my agent. I was averaging 10 minutes a damn mission.
Because i do not want you to know when I am running missions.
Look I dont have to prove anything to you but as I as said I run 14 1h sessions (run 1 missions for 1 hour Uninterrupted then stop or take break and run another 1h session. (max was 3h in one day) LP in hour Varied from 113k LP to 149 with average being just shy of 121k LP ( I ignored LP from when I did storyline mission and when there was server lag). Also when I was close to 140k or over 140k LP session lasted up to 63min. Now 121k LP average equals 8.52 burner missions on average. Also my fits are a bit better than anything posted in this thread. Devil is in the details. Right? Hint: I also Decline 2 of the Burner Base missions.
Hasikan Miallok wrote: I get 0-1 jump with the odd 2 jump one occasionally and very very rare 3 jumps, never had more than 3 jumps. Never had a lowsec burner either.
Any hints? Region, Constellation, Corporation, System :)
Demerius Xenocratus wrote: I personally never got into burners because the barrier to running them consistently is quite high. You either need to multibox (I don't) or invest a few billion ISK in a stable of shiny ships to deal with all of the burners, and you will probably lose a couple when you start out.
Believe me it is worth even if you loose few ships when you start. I refused to run Burner missions when they were first introduced. But after 2 months I started running them. At first only one of them but over next month I mastered all of them. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
706
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 04:12:34 -
[57] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
So lets be clear...anyone making the argument that level 4 rewards are too high is talking about burners. You will be hard pressed to top 100M an hour running standard level 4's with one character. Trying to balance ISK generation to deter people who can invest a few billion ISK in ships to get rolling and have multiple characters devoted to the endeavor is just silly.
.
To be honest you do not need to spend anything like that to cover most of the single and team burners if you are happy to take 6 minutes instead of three. The real barrier for the average mission runners is initially skills. Most peoples mission alts do not have the racial frigates or cruisers to V or assault frigates to V or thermodynamics V or any significant points invested in EWAR skills. These are all relatively cheap to train but a lvl IV mission alt has generally trained none of them.
All of the fits posted in the burners thread are quite costly, and hell I pvp on this account and I don't have thermodynamics to 5.
I'm hesitant to go to the trouble especially as I suspect burner farming is going to nuke the SoE LP market into the ground. I would expect SoE probe launchers to drop below 30M in the next 6 months.
Even running T2 fits...a stable of faction frigates and AF's + couple losses will cost as much as a new faction BS.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1928
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 06:58:51 -
[58] - Quote
Major Doppler wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote: 200, 250, 300, eh what's the difference, I've run out of things to care about making a little bit of isk.
That is a bit ignorant thing to say considering there is 50% difference between 200 and 300. yea maybe, My point was it doesn't make much of a difference to me personally. At this point it is isk generation for the sake of isk generation. Burners were fun for a while but are starting to get boring. it's all in the ballpark of 250, tracking it in more detail is effort I cba to spend. if I could push it to a 500m or a bil/hour then I'd care. I don't care if it is 200 or 300, as I'm not going to be running burner missions to buy a titan or something.
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The tags requirement on many LP items needs to be looked out. The vast majority of items in empire LP stores are unprofitable because of tags. I frankly don't know how some of the faction modules end up on the market for the prices they do because even if you're willing to play .01 games the conversion rate is like 800-1000 ISK/LP at best.
Tags could use a look at mostly the frigate level stuff. but the low value items usually just aren't in demand. changing the tag reqs isn't going to help that. and a lot of the stuff that isn't profitable is because there is a 5 run bpc in another store.
also tags give a nice incentive to run empire faction kill missions.
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:All of the fits posted in the burners thread are quite costly, and hell I pvp on this account and I don't have thermodynamics to 5.
I'm hesitant to go to the trouble especially as I suspect burner farming is going to nuke the SoE LP market into the ground. I would expect SoE probe launchers to drop below 30M in the next 6 months.
Even running T2 fits...a stable of faction frigates and AF's + couple losses will cost as much as a new faction BS.
there are many cheaper alternative fits. the ones linked are the recommended ones, which have good times to complete and aren't insanely expensive. I EFT'd a higher dps wolf fit, but it costs 400mil, and IMO it doesn't make sense to use over the fit that the only shiny is the rep. and therm 5 is nice to have but not needed. just gets a little more time on the heat, most useful where you are heating a mwd or a rep.
I thought the SoE LP market was going to implode.. well back whenever I was running SoE missions in apanake like a year ago? so far it hasn't
so buy a few ships, run the burners you can run with those ships, and build up ships till you can run them all. completing a few burner missions pretty much buys a new ship. if the LP does end up tanking you can sell off your ships.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
472
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 09:16:38 -
[59] - Quote
Regarding costs, most ships have pretty cheap optional fittings and some others are marginal even with quite a bit of bling depending on skills. That said I figure to get over 200mill/h you should be willing to invest around 5 bill in ships and implants and be ready to replace ships. Only lost frigs so far though a few cruisers have been in structure
I did a rough 'draft' character and with +4 implants and no remaps you can get a brand new character into running every single burner in the game comfortably in 365 days of training. Thats from the starting 400k sp. Thats also without a cerebral accelerator. Thermodynamics 5 is definitely not needed no. 4 works fine and the only place where I wish I had 5 is with the blood agent.
Regarding the SOE LP items specifically, looking at in game price graph launchers have dropped maybe 5 mill over the last year. There was a huge (10mill) spike in December last year (SOE ships release) and it took just under 6 months to normalize again.
However Stratioses have been rock solid steady with near as I can tell almost no change at ALL (apart from release spike) since its release. Heck it even looks like there might be a slight uptake. A single Stratios is 8 1/2 launcher's worth of LP. Astero graph looks way more chaotic (huge spike at the start) but it seems relatively steady over the last 6 months. They're just over 2 launcher's worth of LP. Those two items have added a huge amount of stability to SOE LP and they're both quite popular and often in very dangerous situations (Blops drops, low and null exploration, wormholes). I think it'd be great if their price went down a bit, they are beautiful ships. 17299 Stratioses were lost in pvp alone according to zkillboard, 17,791 according to eve-kill. That's 213 BILLION LP or over 152 thousand probe launchers. Astero adds a moderate 14 billion LP to that total.
And that's just PvP losses.
It's not all about the probes :) |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1933
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 06:25:54 -
[60] - Quote
wow that is a lot of lp :D
and it doesn't include the ones lost in pve that don't ever get posted to KBs. and the number of ones that get left over there and it is just easier to buy another one over here. leading to a bunch of dupe ships.
as for probes I just bought a set of each for a t3d, they probably won't ever leave that ship and I'll buy a new set the next time I need probes. Although I have skills so for the most part I'll probably just stick with t2 launchers. unless I'm fitting for something specific.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
835
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 13:28:28 -
[61] - Quote
To people saying thermodynamics 5 is not needed. It is not required, but having it can really be the difference between a loss and win. |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1936
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 19:46:49 -
[62] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:To people saying thermodynamics 5 is not needed. It is not required, but having it can really be the difference between a loss and win. probably some it depends on ship, fit, and other skills. Anything with a daredevil, probably not going to make a difference, at least not on the guns. The one that mostly concerns me is vs the burner daredevil. my rockets are usually pretty close to where I want to stop heating when it goes down. not sure what the result would be if I stopped heating sooner. I have burned out my ECM on my kite garmur when on an unlucky streak, although with 20s cycles it takes a while to burn out, not sure what effect thermo4 would have. and on the serpentis base I've come close to burning out my MWD, but that isn't a condition for success just something that helps you finish a little faster. either have one less heated mwd cycle or need to spread them out more.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
479
|
Posted - 2015.10.24 20:35:36 -
[63] - Quote
So I did say I was going to do another 3h run this week so here's the data. This time I ran fewer normal blitzable lv4s (So skipped some assault/attack of drones/etc.) and I managed to not lose a ship. On the downside I got absolutely garbage for drops, total of 16mill with half of that from the one Blood base. I got some faction stuff derping around during the week but I just cant seem to get any good stuff when I'm actually doing a 3h run. The burners themselves is a bit of a mixed bag, some nice ones and some crappy ones and I think 3 of them was 4 jumps out but acceptable.
I also paid attention to my faction and agent standings. Agent standings pretty much stayed in the positive for the most part, ending up at 2.77 effective (around what I started with) and faction standings went from 8.04 to 7.94 effective. I declined 2 storyline missions. Didn't feel like running any and want to keep the agent available in case I get a Materials for War.
Time starts: 17:00 Time end: 20:00
Same thing as last time, taken from accepting first mission to docking and completing last mission.
Isk Start: 215 936 581isk Isk End: 495 510 940isk
Isk Tot : 279 574 359isk
LP Start: 56 547 LP End: 324 209
LP Tot: 267662
Just under 20mill and 15k LP better than last try. Getting in an extra burner base pretty much covers the difference.
No changes regarding skills except for getting cal cruiser 5 so the one blood base I ran went a lot easier than usual.
LP Exchange rate I will use the same as my last example. Currently there is an upwards spike in LP value but I'm pretty sure it's temporary so we'll go with 1 679isk/LP.
Other income/expense: 16.5mill This is mostly scrap modules and burner loot. half of it is from the guaranteed loot from the Ashimu burner. The rest is meta modules and faction ammo. Knock off 5.5mill from the isk/h if you feel it shouldn't be included.
Isk/h comes out to 248 507 822. Total worth 745 523 467 Isk.
Burners Normal
Angel Base - 17:00 - The assault - Recon 1 Serpentis Base - Jaguar - Hawk - Curor - Enyo -
Jaguar - 18:02 Vengeance - Serpentis Base - Dramiel - Dramiel - - Recon 1 - Attack of the drones Enyo -
Angel Base - 19:02 Daredevil - Jaguar - Blood Base - Worm - - The Assault Daredevil - - - 20:00
|
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4700
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 20:04:40 -
[64] - Quote
So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
479
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 20:14:34 -
[65] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed? It's self regulating. if enough people run them properly then SOE LP value will automatically go down. So far Stratios prices have been rock solid stable since they were introduced (Except for the current price spike).
Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much, if any, isk into the economy. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
679
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 20:30:18 -
[66] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed? It's self regulating. if enough people run them properly then SOE LP value will automatically go down. So far Stratios prices have been rock solid stable since they were introduced (Except for the current price spike). Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example.
Why do you keep saying there is a Stratios price spike?
You don't have a clue do you? Stratios is 271mil in Jita, 276mil in Amarr and the price never changed in Dodixie or Hek.
And yes, SoE LP is getting nerfed. CCP is partnering to do a quasi folding@home type thing where they are going to reward us with SoE lp for using our computers through their game.
But that nerf isn't even needed since don't look now, probes and probe launchers have dropped below 1600isk/lp barrier.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
479
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 20:38:16 -
[67] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed? It's self regulating. if enough people run them properly then SOE LP value will automatically go down. So far Stratios prices have been rock solid stable since they were introduced (Except for the current price spike). Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example. Why do you keep saying there is a Stratios price spike? You don't have a clue do you? Stratios is 271mil in Jita, 276mil in Amarr and the price never changed in Dodixie or Hek. And yes, SoE LP is getting nerfed. CCP is partnering to do a quasi folding@home type thing where they are going to reward us with SoE lp for using our computers through their game. But that nerf isn't even needed since don't look now, probes and probe launchers have dropped below 1600isk/lp barrier. Sold multiple stratios BPCs for 275mill this weekend: over 2k isk/lp Sold stacks of probe launchers this weekend (to buy orders) for 36mill each: over 1800isk/lp Buy orders for probe launchers are CURRENTLY at 35mill each, in Jita: 1762 isk/lp
See, I told you you were going to hurt yourself. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
679
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 21:06:04 -
[68] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:So the only real question is... When are Burner missions getting nerfed? It's self regulating. if enough people run them properly then SOE LP value will automatically go down. So far Stratios prices have been rock solid stable since they were introduced (Except for the current price spike). Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example. Why do you keep saying there is a Stratios price spike? You don't have a clue do you? Stratios is 271mil in Jita, 276mil in Amarr and the price never changed in Dodixie or Hek. And yes, SoE LP is getting nerfed. CCP is partnering to do a quasi folding@home type thing where they are going to reward us with SoE lp for using our computers through their game. But that nerf isn't even needed since don't look now, probes and probe launchers have dropped below 1600isk/lp barrier. Sold multiple stratios BPCs for 275mill this weekend: over 2k isk/lp Sold stacks of probe launchers this weekend (to buy orders) for 36mill each: over 1800isk/lp Buy orders for probe launchers are CURRENTLY at 35mill each, in Jita: 1762 isk/lp See, I told you you were going to hurt yourself.
You are confusing the price YOU got for an item and market price. I can sell a plex for 10bil isk if someone isn't paying attention. But I wouldn't go on the forums trying to convince people everyone else could too.
And at 36mil isk, a probe launcher from Sister's of Eve actually doesn't get more than 1800isk/lp Take out the 9.6mil you pay CCP, the 14.4k in LP and the cost of the launcher you need to turn, then your market costs... and this is at your fake price, 34.5mil is where I see the SELL orders at.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
THE TRUTH
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
479
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 21:14:03 -
[69] - Quote
At 36mill 36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 26 375 000
26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP = 1 832isk/lp
At 35mill 34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 25 375 000
25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP = 1 727 isk/lp
Having some trouble with math are we? |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
679
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 21:16:17 -
[70] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:At 36mill 36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 26 375 000
26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP = 1 832isk/lp
At 34.5mill 34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 25 375 000
25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP = 1 727 isk/lp
Having some trouble with math are we?
No, but you are. Taxes + original item that needs converting puts you under 1800 at 36mil
Having trouble reading what is required to MAKE AND SELL a SoE Launcher?
Also, I said 34.5mil was the SELL orders. You gonna let it sit there .01 gaming all day?
Oooo I see the price is going up as I was typing. So I would advise anyone who has em to sell em, because looks like you could dump them above the 1800 mark for a short while.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
THE TRUTH
|
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
479
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 21:19:04 -
[71] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:At 36mill 36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 26 375 000
26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP = 1 832isk/lp
At 34.5mill 34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 25 375 000
25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP = 1 727 isk/lp
Having some trouble with math are we? No, but you are. Taxes + original item that needs converting puts you under 1800 at 36mil Having trouble reading what is required to MAKE AND SELL a SoE Launcher? Also, I said 34.5mil was the SELL orders. You gonna let it sit there .01 gaming all day? Oooo I see the price is going up as I was typing. So I would advise anyone who has em to sell em, because looks like you could dump them above the 1800 mark for a short while. Finally bothered logging into eve and actually checking your facts?
Also my maths include the price of the launcher used to actually make the probe launchers. |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
679
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 21:21:43 -
[72] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:At 36mill 36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 26 375 000
26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP = 1 832isk/lp
At 34.5mill 34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 25 375 000
25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP = 1 727 isk/lp
Having some trouble with math are we? No, but you are. Taxes + original item that needs converting puts you under 1800 at 36mil Having trouble reading what is required to MAKE AND SELL a SoE Launcher? Also, I said 34.5mil was the SELL orders. You gonna let it sit there .01 gaming all day? Oooo I see the price is going up as I was typing. So I would advise anyone who has em to sell em, because looks like you could dump them above the 1800 mark for a short while. Finally bothered logging into eve and actually checking your facts?
Fact is you could be one of the very lucky people to get a bite at 36mil... but sell orders are at 34.1mil
And there isn't very many between 34mil and 33mil.
So if you have a lot of LP, you are going to run out of buyers before you drop below 1700isk/lp.
Again, you want to talk consistent and lucrative products, then give us a couple of one item sales as a poster child. ridiculous
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
THE TRUTH
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
479
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 21:28:30 -
[73] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:At 36mill 36 000 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 26 375 000
26 375 000 isk / 14 400 LP = 1 832isk/lp
At 34.5mill 34 500 000 - 9 600 000 - 25 000 = 25 375 000
25 375 000 isk / 14400 LP = 1 727 isk/lp
Having some trouble with math are we? No, but you are. Taxes + original item that needs converting puts you under 1800 at 36mil Having trouble reading what is required to MAKE AND SELL a SoE Launcher? Also, I said 34.5mil was the SELL orders. You gonna let it sit there .01 gaming all day? Oooo I see the price is going up as I was typing. So I would advise anyone who has em to sell em, because looks like you could dump them above the 1800 mark for a short while. Finally bothered logging into eve and actually checking your facts? Fact is you could be one of the very lucky people to get a bite at 36mil... but sell orders are at 34.1mil And there isn't very many between 34mil and 33mil. So if you have a lot of LP, you are going to run out of buyers before you drop below 1700isk/lp. Again, you want to talk consistent and lucrative products, then give us a couple of one item sales as a poster child. ridiculous The price for all SOE items have been spiking this weekend, I said that multiple times, then you challange this statement, then you fall back on it yourself. I'm getting alittle dizzy here myself.
My calculations on isk/h are STILL BASED on my normal sub 1700isk/h LP rates. This has not changed even if I've been able to convert over a million LP at a much Higher rate over this weekend. You are desperately trying to build a strawman and it's getting a little sad. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1596
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 22:19:15 -
[74] - Quote
The point is simple really you have two main choices if you do not run a market alt:
a) try and optimize your time so you have as much as possible for mission running and dump to market buy or sell at the long term average. The time saved chasing market fluctuations can be used for running more missions. In many cases yu make more this way than wasting time chasing optimal market prices.
b) try and optimise your sales. For example SOE prices did spike over the weekend but erratically, I sold some 300 mill plus Stratios in Amarr and some expanded probe launchers for 44 mill in Rens. Do you make more than dumping to market and using the time to mission instead ? Sometimes. This weekend I made a few hundred mill extra for wasting maybe 40 minutes. Other times I would have been far better off with more missioning.
The more ISK/hr you make missioning the less benefit you will get chasing market fluctuations. |
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
160
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 01:16:15 -
[75] - Quote
I like doing stuff like this, so I thought IGÇÖd post some numbers too.
These numbers are not as impressive. I tried to do some L4s as fast as I could, and using the luck of the draw in accepting missions. I did not salvage anything. It's hard to blitz in a brick.
I set out to do 3 hours of L4 missions. I stopped after 2 hours (119m39s), my head started to hurt. All missions were ran with a Golem, except for the recon missions where I used a Tengu. I turned down 3 burner missions and one story line.
So after 2 hours I ran 10 missions. I made 41,444 in LPs. At 1500 ISK per LP, that is about equal to 62.2M ISK. The rewards and bounties equaled 51.7M ISK, for a grand total of 113.9M. Which is about 56.9M ISK per hour. (minus the cost of ammo.)
I could post the missions, but I donGÇÖt feel itGÇÖs necessary. This is just what could be expected at the lower end of the scale by not really blitzing or messing with Burners.
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1945
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 01:41:56 -
[76] - Quote
uuhhhmm.. do I need to mention there are 2 different sisters probe launchers?
the core ones are selling for 36m+ and buying at 35mil in jita right now. the expanded ones are 34.8/33.1. as they have slightly different uses, ie core are only useful for finding sites and have very low fitting costs, where the expanded ones can be used to probe out ships or sites but has very high cpu fitting cost.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
684
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 01:52:41 -
[77] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:uuhhhmm.. do I need to mention there are 2 different sisters probe launchers?
the core ones are selling for 36m+ and buying at 35mil in jita right now. the expanded ones are 34.8/33.1. as they have slightly different uses, ie core are only useful for finding sites and have very low fitting costs, where the expanded ones can be used to probe out ships or sites but has very high cpu fitting cost.
Yeah I know that. He claims to have sold Sisters Core Probe Launchers for over 36mil this weekend when the highest recorded sale price in Jita this weekend was 35,009,017
So my point, and the point of others still stand. Mission income is dependent on a market value which fluctuates and has recently been trending downwards. It is also not unlimited and if everyone was doing what is being proposed, the value of our efforts would be hardly worth it.
I guess it is best said that the numbers being presented are more of a potential than a hard rate. It is entirely possible that the ratios could go way up one day too, and all that LP some of us have stored in now worthless corps will be worth something too. But that has more to do with Market-Fu than missions.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
THE TRUTH
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1598
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 03:38:02 -
[78] - Quote
I do not think anyone is claiming one off prices are sustainable,
You can however do far better than average by watching the market.
Mission alt trading this morning.
However time spent finding best deals can often be better spent running more missions.
EDIT: Dates and times are Aussie TZ |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
479
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 06:17:50 -
[79] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: So my point, and the point of others still stand. Mission income is dependent on a market value which fluctuates and has recently been trending downwards. It is also not unlimited and if everyone was doing what is being proposed, the value of our efforts would be hardly worth it.
Emphasis mine.
I figured as much. The reason for the desperation at least now is confirmed.
Man you are going to hate what I'm putting together
Market McSelling Alt wrote: I guess it is best said that the numbers being presented are more of a potential than a hard rate. It is entirely possible that the ratios could go way up one day too, and all that LP some of us have stored in now worthless corps will be worth something too. But that has more to do with Market-Fu than missions.
I can, and have been, dumping millions of LP at effectively over the rate that I use in my examples for almost three months now. The SOE market is far more robust than you think. Yes, it boggles the mind, but enjoy it and stop trying to spread misinformation just to keep your little isk fountain safe. It should be shared with everyone. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
716
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 13:32:20 -
[80] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: So my point, and the point of others still stand. Mission income is dependent on a market value which fluctuates and has recently been trending downwards. It is also not unlimited and if everyone was doing what is being proposed, the value of our efforts would be hardly worth it.
Emphasis mine. I figured as much. The reason for the desperation at least now is confirmed. Man you are going to hate what I'm putting together Market McSelling Alt wrote: I guess it is best said that the numbers being presented are more of a potential than a hard rate. It is entirely possible that the ratios could go way up one day too, and all that LP some of us have stored in now worthless corps will be worth something too. But that has more to do with Market-Fu than missions.
I can, and have been, dumping millions of LP at effectively over the rate that I use in my examples for almost three months now. The SOE market is far more robust than you think. Yes, it boggles the mind, but enjoy it and stop trying to spread misinformation just to keep your little isk fountain safe. It should be shared with everyone.
I have not seen 36M buy orders in ages for launchers and never seen Stratios buys for above 280. The numbers you are throwing out are unrealistic unless one is playing serious market games with dedicated trade alts in multiple hubs, and doing things like sitting on the LP for long periods of time until an exploitable market fluctuation comes along. So yes you can get 2k ISK/LP but it requires a good deal of luck and patience, trade alts in all the major hubs and the ability to quickly move stock between them. I'm sure there are opportunities for even greater ROI moving stock to lowsec and nullsec markets but Johnny mission runner isn't getting 2k selling to buy orders on a daily basis. I sold a stack of launchers in Dodixie few weeks back for 31M apiece after fees and taxes.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 14:13:47 -
[81] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: So my point, and the point of others still stand. Mission income is dependent on a market value which fluctuates and has recently been trending downwards. It is also not unlimited and if everyone was doing what is being proposed, the value of our efforts would be hardly worth it.
Emphasis mine. I figured as much. The reason for the desperation at least now is confirmed. Man you are going to hate what I'm putting together Market McSelling Alt wrote: I guess it is best said that the numbers being presented are more of a potential than a hard rate. It is entirely possible that the ratios could go way up one day too, and all that LP some of us have stored in now worthless corps will be worth something too. But that has more to do with Market-Fu than missions.
I can, and have been, dumping millions of LP at effectively over the rate that I use in my examples for almost three months now. The SOE market is far more robust than you think. Yes, it boggles the mind, but enjoy it and stop trying to spread misinformation just to keep your little isk fountain safe. It should be shared with everyone. I have not seen 36M buy orders in ages for launchers and never seen Stratios buys for above 280. The numbers you are throwing out are unrealistic unless one is playing serious market games with dedicated trade alts in multiple hubs, and doing things like sitting on the LP for long periods of time until an exploitable market fluctuation comes along. So yes you can get 2k ISK/LP but it requires a good deal of luck and patience, trade alts in all the major hubs and the ability to quickly move stock between them. I'm sure there are opportunities for even greater ROI moving stock to lowsec and nullsec markets but Johnny mission runner isn't getting 2k selling to buy orders on a daily basis. I sold a stack of launchers in Dodixie few weeks back for 31M apiece after fees and taxes. Uh, ok, then did you just not bother logging in to eve over the weekend? Regardless, if I have to repeat the same line for the 5th time I don't mind; There was a price spike this weekend, resulting in very high, but temporary price increase in probe launchers and stratioses. Yes people were putting up buy orders (at least 50 units) for probe launchers for 36mill, no this is not normal, no this inflated price is not what I'm basing the 248.5mill/h income on.
I mean really guys I know we're all a little ADHD but this is getting silly
Edit: There's buy orders for Stratios hulls right now at this moment up for 280,000,105.40.
That's technically over 280mill right?
http://puu.sh/kYnOh/ae30695776.jpg for anyone doubting the 36mill probe launchers |
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1946
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 00:36:26 -
[82] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:uuhhhmm.. do I need to mention there are 2 different sisters probe launchers?
the core ones are selling for 36m+ and buying at 35mil in jita right now. the expanded ones are 34.8/33.1. as they have slightly different uses, ie core are only useful for finding sites and have very low fitting costs, where the expanded ones can be used to probe out ships or sites but has very high cpu fitting cost. Yeah I know that. He claims to have sold Sisters Core Probe Launchers for over 36mil this weekend when the highest recorded sale price in Jita this weekend was 35,009,017 So my point, and the point of others still stand. Mission income is dependent on a market value which fluctuates and has recently been trending downwards. It is also not unlimited and if everyone was doing what is being proposed, the value of our efforts would be hardly worth it. I guess it is best said that the numbers being presented are more of a potential than a hard rate. It is entirely possible that the ratios could go way up one day too, and all that LP some of us have stored in now worthless corps will be worth something too. But that has more to do with Market-Fu than missions.
the 24th and 25th were this weekend the Average prices were between 36.2 and 36.9 mil. highest recorded sale price would have been 38,949610.43 http://i.imgur.com/6gPZHWC.png
as for LP spikes they are almost impossible to be anything more than short lived thanks to incursion runners. 1 concord LP -> 0.8 any major empire store LP. Has become one of my major gripes as it makes many corps just not worth running for. Burner missions can only be blamed for a small portion of LP price decreases.
Hasikan Miallok wrote:I do not think anyone is claiming one off prices are sustainable, You can however do far better than average by watching the market. Mission alt trading this morning.However time spent finding best deals can often be better spent running more missions. EDIT: Dates and times are Aussie TZ
I sold some CN cloaks for ~2700 isk/lp recently
1500-1800 is reasonably convertible right now. very sure every race has a store that is at or above this point right now. might not be in the awesome volume level, but typically most stores can handle at least a few people running them. that said whatever happens to tag/lp rates when more people start running can be interesting.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4701
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 08:45:42 -
[83] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example. I think you misread my comment... I meant with how successful players are at running them, when is the inevitable nerf bat going to hammer them?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 09:11:18 -
[84] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example. I think you misread my comment... I meant with how successful players are at running them, when is the inevitable nerf bat going to hammer them? Hmm I don't think I'm misreading it at all really.
Why does the fact that some players are able to successfully complete content(most of the time) mean there will be an inevitable nerf?
Effectively to me what you are suggesting is that the content is not working as intended, that being able to complete the content is not something CCP wanted to happen. I believe some of the burners that CCP felt has been too easy have in fact been buffed(The daredevil is a really though cookie) so nothing at this date indicates a nerf.
Currently it looks like most people don't even *believe* that it's possible to do what some of us are doing, never mind actually running burners at all. A number are also running them extremely inefficiently, using multiple characters to run them and using anything from Marauders to some of the slowest battleships in the game to complete unnecessary normal lv4 missions. From observing the ships undocking in popular trade hubs a very *very* small portion of the mission running population is running at even remotely a good efficiency. We've had people that have been running missions for more years than my character has existed that are getting barely over 100mill/h on a good day for pete's sake .
Basically, just because a tiny number of mission runners are able to get a high isk/h, does this mean the content should be nerfed for the vast majority too lazy or otherwise lacking in mental faculties to achieve a similarly high isk/h? |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
716
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 12:36:22 -
[85] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example. I think you misread my comment... I meant with how successful players are at running them, when is the inevitable nerf bat going to hammer them? Hmm I don't think I'm misreading it at all really. Why does the fact that some players are able to successfully complete content(most of the time) mean there will be an inevitable nerf? Effectively to me what you are suggesting is that the content is not working as intended, that being able to complete the content is not something CCP wanted to happen. I believe some of the burners that CCP felt has been too easy have in fact been beefed up(The daredevil is now a really though cookie) so nothing at this date indicates a nerf. It actually looks like most people don't even *believe* that it's possible to do what some of us are doing, never mind actually running burners at all. A number are also running them extremely inefficiently, using multiple characters to run them and using anything from Marauders to some of the slowest battleships in the game to complete unnecessary normal lv4 missions. From observing the ships undocking in popular trade hubs a very *very* small portion of the mission running population is running at even remotely a good efficiency. We've had people that have been running missions for more years than my character has existed that are getting barely over 100mill/h on a good day for pete's sake . Basically, just because a tiny number of mission runners are able to get a high isk/h, does this mean the content should be nerfed for the vast majority too lazy or otherwise lacking in mental faculties to achieve a similarly high isk/h?
Ironically that is the argument that the "nerf highsec" crowd makes - that risk/reward should be balanced based on the rewards available to the most invested, active and efficient PvE'ers. Of course doing so leaves everyone else out in the cold.
I personally don't run burners because I PvP too much and lose too much ISK there to easily fund the initial startup investment, including the inevitable losses on the learning curve. I've got into incursions instead, which to me don't seem near as broken as everyone claims because once again the high ISK/hr figures tossed out require extreme efficiency in fitting, at the individual level and throughout the entire fleet. Not to mention they're so boring I can scarcely stand to run more than 8-10 sites in one sitting.
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Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
698
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 14:31:54 -
[86] - Quote
Damn, and I thought making 100m / hr in low sec was good! |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 14:34:49 -
[87] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Damn, and I thought making 100m / hr in low sec was good! If you get a nice quiet bit of LS and find the right corp to run for you could rake it in with lv4s and burners in LS. No idea if such a place exists though |
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 16:21:14 -
[88] - Quote
A compilation of some tips and fits for Blitzing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
A guide to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
694
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 16:29:35 -
[89] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:Damn, and I thought making 100m / hr in low sec was good! If you get a nice quiet bit of LS and find the right corp to run for you could rake it in with lv4s and burners in LS. No idea if such a place exists though
Only because I don't run low-sec missions anymore. But HOPHIB
That is all.
And yes, Burners in Hophib will give you over 23k lp per mission if I remember correctly. Although, its crap LP
CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.
40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4702
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 18:22:41 -
[90] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:It actually looks like most people don't even *believe* that it's possible to do what some of us are doing, never mind actually running burners at all. A number are also running them extremely inefficiently, using multiple characters to run them and using anything from Marauders to some of the slowest battleships in the game to complete unnecessary normal lv4 missions. From observing the ships undocking in popular trade hubs a very *very* small portion of the mission running population is running at even remotely a good efficiency. We've had people that have been running missions for more years than my character has existed that are getting barely over 100mill/h on a good day for pete's sake. My hat's off to you for excelling and setting a standard with mission running that I continue to aspire to.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1948
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 19:00:37 -
[91] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be nerfed? Keep in mind that burners don't inject much isk into the economy, compared to nullsec ratting for example. I think you misread my comment... I meant with how successful players are at running them, when is the inevitable nerf bat going to hammer them? there are a few small very direct nerfs that could be made to reduce blitzing income, and not really hurt the general population.
personally I'd like to see a risk/reward balance pass, feel like there are a lot of little oddities in the system. That said risk/reward is more complex than high/low/null/wh. Imo you shouldn't compare afk ishtar ratting to lv4 blitzing. Where FW has multiple sub parts, offensive/defensive plexing, and missions. to call for nerfs to whole groups of sec bands is just overly simplistic and not useful.
CCP seems to have some ideas too https://www.themittani.com/features/huge-changes-coming-drifters-standings-and-more
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 19:46:23 -
[92] - Quote
Quote:- The Burner mission AI will eventually be adapted for every NPC ship in the game. That being said, CCP does expect some bugs and weird behaviors, and will keep an active eye on NPC behaviour. Burner missions might also be expanded to the Opportunity system as a part of the new player experience. - CCP knows that there needs to be a greater variety of missions. There are no plans to make the missions safer for the mission runners. Hiding things behind locked acceleration gates is not good gameplay.
Those two points especially make me pretty excited.
A guide to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4703
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 20:05:33 -
[93] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Those two points especially make me pretty excited. The PvE ideas are all pretty exciting, to be honest. Tribute in particular sounds quite appealing...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 20:21:31 -
[94] - Quote
Hmm actually this is probably the most important part of that whole article:
Quote:Tracking player participation is a very big part of moving forward. From Data sites to Rogue Drones, Burner missions to highsec Incursions, CCP knows what content players are engaging in, and what players are being rewarded with. When confronted about highsec Incursions, for example, CCP Affinity stated that Sansha Incursions running forever does not make much sense. For now, they will likely bump up the payout for null and low Incursions. Rogue Drones and Data Sites are also being discussed due to remarkably poor player participation.
CCP knows that they can make a mechanic as engaging and 'fun' as they want but if it's not giving players worthwhile rewards no one is going to run them ever. And they can track this.
I feel this is where CCP struck the goldmine with burners. It's fun and engaging, a lot more so than semi afk pressing f1 every 30 seconds watching battleship after battleship slowly get chipped at and explode, while still paying out a very nice amount of both isk and LP. The LP that helps reduce the impact of the isk injection by acting as an isk sink. It gives a reason for players to have multiple ships in station and for them to be constantly switching from one to the other.
And yea the tribute system sound kinda nice actually. lot of potential there or some interesting rewards. 30 day police skins anyone?
A guide to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
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Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
161
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 20:54:53 -
[95] - Quote
IMHO . . .
It seems like eventually everything in EVE reaches a peak and then fades, or it becomes common place. If it all becomes easy to do, then really what's the point.
Let me try to explain my thoughts.
Any player just starting out doing L1 missions is in awe. They progress to L2, find things a bit tougher. On thru L3 to L4s.
Eventually, L4s become boring, like Anize said, " pressing F1 every 30 sec" over and over.
Then Burner missions appeared. I lost a few ships early on, trying to find something to take them out.
Now, there's fits designed for specific Burner missions, and they now too have become easy. They just pay out a lot more, and take way less time.
Same with Incursions. Once EVE players figured out how to do it, it became very easy to do. Another cash cow.
There is a level of excitement that has returned to me in BLITZING L3 missions. That excitement just wasn't there in a Golem. (Everything takes f o r e v e r).
I'm not in it for the ISK anymore, I have more than enough. I want excitement, a challenge. Something to get this old heart pumping.
When I log on, with this character, it is most likely to run a couple of L4s, and then call it a night. I don't have time for much more. Now with L4 Burner missions, I don't have to be on EVE as much, if all I wanted to do is run a couple of missions.
So I'm sure those brief moments of excitement will last, but it will eventually fade.
Anize I don't want to take anything away from what you have done. It's not easy to keep track of all those numbers and then post them for people to analyze and question. Do they think we sit around making this stuff up? Good job.
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 21:19:07 -
[96] - Quote
Ion Kirst wrote: Now, there's fits designed for specific Burner missions, and they now too have become easy. They just pay out a lot more, and take way less time.
Well yes and no. One of the biggest differences, for me at least is that to run the burners as effectively as possible, there's so much more things to do and keep track of on a second by second basis compared to normal lv4s.
Some of it is very similar to blitzing Lv3s in a smaller ship in fact and some closer to PvP. I need to check my heat levels on all my modules, tank, guns, etc. so I don't burn em out. I need to keep an eye on my cap and cap inject when necessary. I need to make sure none of my modules deactivate and reactivate them when they do go offline. I need to keep range and react when a burner gets a lucky wrecking hits or a couple of wrecking hits in a row. Overheat the repper if that happens or else I go boom. Theres drone control/aggro (far higher than you will find in any other mission) you have to manage, constantly swapping out drones. most of the cruiser burners even have a lot of manual piloting involved, etc. so it's constant second to second activity.
Not all of these things are perhaps strictly required, but they make a huge difference in completion time. The same can not be said for normal Lv4s. Manual piloting/transversal matching might have a very minor impact but due to the sheer amount of EHP you have to grind through, OH has absolutely no advantage whatsoever.
So yea, a little bit of the excitement of PvP combined with getting a really nice payout.
Quote: Anize I don't want to take anything away from what you have done. It's not easy to keep track of all those numbers and then post them for people to analyze and question. Do they think we sit around making this stuff up? Good job.
-Kirst
No probs, people like different things. So long as you've at least tried it as you have then I don't mind.
A guide to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 21:57:55 -
[97] - Quote
I tested what it would take to get my agent standings to -2 from a positive standing of around 3.5. 20 missions. I even had to decline not only multiple normal lv4 'blitz missions' but I also had to decline quite a few burners as well. I have to admit though that it was an impressive amount of bad missions in a row. Don't see it often but then I did have to decline multiple normal and burner missions(that dont show up).
It only took one mission that I had to use my mission pulling alt for to fix the standings and it wasn't even a 'good' mission, just any old scrappy mission works fine.
http://puu.sh/kZXL3/266a20b9df.jpg
A guide to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4703
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 22:00:54 -
[98] - Quote
Completing storyline missions can make a huge difference.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
481
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 22:21:47 -
[99] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Completing storyline missions can make a huge difference. For Faction standing definitely. Especially the combat ones. I think the really bigs ones are like 15% boost to faction standing.
For agent standings however storylines don't do anything. I do always keep one eye on it but I had to actively sabotage my process to actually get to -2. Just some more numbers for those interested
A guide to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1knVqZEH8qFY0eT44nMEFwcKd3t4PbgcZeuv58SVUxsI/edit?usp=sharing
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4705
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Posted - 2015.10.27 22:53:46 -
[100] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Completing storyline missions can make a huge difference. For Faction standing definitely. Especially the combat ones. I think the really bigs ones are like 15% boost to faction standing. And corporation. Once you reach 9 standing or higher you really start to see the law of diminishing returns (even with the combat-orientated Storyline missions).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1949
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Posted - 2015.10.28 03:19:27 -
[101] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Completing storyline missions can make a huge difference. For Faction standing definitely. Especially the combat ones. I think the really bigs ones are like 15% boost to faction standing. And corporation. Once you reach 9 standing or higher you really start to see the law of diminishing returns (even with the combat-orientated Storyline missions). tell me about it, I did the 9.9 faction grind for the 2 run CNR bpc.
so much wasted time
@ChainsawPlankto
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4707
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Posted - 2015.10.28 03:28:26 -
[102] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:tell me about it, I did the 9.9 faction grind for the 2 run CNR bpc. so much wasted time It was well worth it when CNRs were 650m ISK...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1949
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 04:46:03 -
[103] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:tell me about it, I did the 9.9 faction grind for the 2 run CNR bpc. so much wasted time It was well worth it when CNRs were 650m ISK... opportunity cost was billions and billions that I could have made by blitzing instead, and I stubbornly went for CPF LP so not worth it, at least another bil down the drain
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
495
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Posted - 2015.10.31 11:54:08 -
[104] - Quote
Ran another 3h session and I think this time I got what can accurately be described as a 'lucky set of missions". I even recorded all 3h of it but uploading all of it is probably an impossibility. Might upload parts of it. Was pretty bizzarre really. I also ended up with higher agent standing than I started with (over 5). In hind sight I could probably have declined the Blood base missions and done better but I like running blood bases, I'm weird like that.
Won't bore you with all of the details. Specifics are: 250mill/h @ 1679isk/lp (I'm getting higher but lets stick with what I've been using)
Burners Normal Angel Base - 17:55 Serpentis Base - Blood Base - Angel Base - - Pirate Invation Angel Base - - Pirate Invation 18:59 Blood Base - Enyo - Angel Base - Sansha Agent - Vengeance - Hawk - Jaguar - 19:54 Blood Base - Enyo - - Recon 1 Jaguar - - Dread Pirate Scarlet - Dread Pirate Scarlet - Materials for war prep - - 20:57
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4718
|
Posted - 2015.11.02 21:17:43 -
[105] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Specifics are: 250mill/h @ 1679isk/lp (I'm getting higher but lets stick with what I've been using) You're really raising the bar for all of us!
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
701
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Posted - 2015.11.03 19:07:16 -
[106] - Quote
At first, I thought this was insane isk/hr. Then I realised the OP was making 200m per hour of EFFORT (since blitzing can't be done semi-afk).
Mining ice in a solo exhumer can make you about 20m per hour. Doesn't seem alot, but honestly, within that hour, you might only spend 5 minutes clicking and looking on your screen. You can spend the other 55 minutes on Netflix and chill.
Since you're making 20m of isk per 5 minutes of effort, that equals to 240m per hour of effort. This is more than blitzing level 4s.
Mining makes better isk. |
Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
36
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Posted - 2015.11.03 19:37:02 -
[107] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:At first, I thought this was insane isk/hr. Then I realised the OP was making 200m per hour of EFFORT (since blitzing can't be done semi-afk).
Mining ice in a solo exhumer can make you about 20m per hour. Doesn't seem alot, but honestly, within that hour, you might only spend 5 minutes clicking and looking on your screen. You can spend the other 55 minutes on Netflix and chill.
Since you're making 20m of isk per 5 minutes of effort, that equals to 240m per hour of effort. This is more than blitzing level 4s.
Mining makes better isk. lol
he can do a burner in this 5 min. and has 30-35 m isk. after that he can chillin too.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
513
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 20:12:15 -
[108] - Quote
Both of those are very valid POV as yes, it is an hour of effort for he 250mill. If you have limited hours available to be at the computer then obviously the one would be more favorable than the other and the other way around.
That said, you are breaking the golden rule.
Quote:You can spend the other 55 minutes on Netflix and chill.
Log before you flog.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
698
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 20:17:49 -
[109] - Quote
Ploing wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:At first, I thought this was insane isk/hr. Then I realised the OP was making 200m per hour of EFFORT (since blitzing can't be done semi-afk).
Mining ice in a solo exhumer can make you about 20m per hour. Doesn't seem alot, but honestly, within that hour, you might only spend 5 minutes clicking and looking on your screen. You can spend the other 55 minutes on Netflix and chill.
Since you're making 20m of isk per 5 minutes of effort, that equals to 240m per hour of effort. This is more than blitzing level 4s.
Mining makes better isk. lol he can do a burner in this 5 min. and has 30-35 m isk. after that he can chillin too.
WTB Setup that allows me to run 10 accounts on Burners at the same time...
Not that I would ever advocate someone claw their eyes out mining, but 10 ice miners would be less than half the effort of 1 burner pilot, and you can make the same amount per hour without ever having to worry about LP values, LP nerfs and your initial investment would be about the same.
CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.
40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
513
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 20:37:52 -
[110] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Ploing wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:At first, I thought this was insane isk/hr. Then I realised the OP was making 200m per hour of EFFORT (since blitzing can't be done semi-afk).
Mining ice in a solo exhumer can make you about 20m per hour. Doesn't seem alot, but honestly, within that hour, you might only spend 5 minutes clicking and looking on your screen. You can spend the other 55 minutes on Netflix and chill.
Since you're making 20m of isk per 5 minutes of effort, that equals to 240m per hour of effort. This is more than blitzing level 4s.
Mining makes better isk. lol he can do a burner in this 5 min. and has 30-35 m isk. after that he can chillin too. WTB Setup that allows me to run 10 accounts on Burners at the same time... Not that I would ever advocate someone claw their eyes out mining, but 10 ice miners would be less than half the effort of 1 burner pilot, and you can make the same amount per hour without ever having to worry about LP values, LP nerfs and your initial investment would be about the same. You know, apart from the 10 subs you'd have to pay.
It's funny, it's a huge deal when you'd even contemplate using an alt to handle the shipping and selling of LP items but 10 mining alts? Sure, that's not a problem at all.
You're adorable, never change.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
36
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Posted - 2015.11.03 20:44:37 -
[111] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
WTB Setup that allows me to run 10 accounts on Burners at the same time...
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Captain Ron Sotken
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 21:12:05 -
[112] - Quote
This seems pretty low. The average mission runner should be making about 420mil an hour with little effort and not declining anything. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1609
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 22:49:29 -
[113] - Quote
Captain Ron Sotken wrote:This seems pretty low. The average mission runner should be making about 420mil an hour with little effort and not declining anything.
Whilst true not everyone has a carrier and runs losec Vs. |
Captain Ron Sotken
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 00:24:18 -
[114] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Captain Ron Sotken wrote:This seems pretty low. The average mission runner should be making about 420mil an hour with little effort and not declining anything. Whilst true not everyone has a carrier and runs losec Vs.
This is highsec safe security space with mission level 4. It is not adviseable to ever go to low sec space for missions. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
4719
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 10:49:03 -
[115] - Quote
Captain Ron Sotken wrote:This seems pretty low. The average mission runner should be making about 420mil an hour with little effort and not declining anything. Good luck with that. Sometimes you'll get a lot of non-blitzable missions and just horrible luck with Burner ones.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1611
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 00:24:52 -
[116] - Quote
Captain Ron Sotken wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Captain Ron Sotken wrote:This seems pretty low. The average mission runner should be making about 420mil an hour with little effort and not declining anything. Whilst true not everyone has a carrier and runs losec Vs. This is highsec safe security space with mission level 4. It is not adviseable to ever go to low sec space for missions.
Your not getting a carrier into highsec.
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