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![Adrien Aideron Adrien Aideron](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90640664/portrait?size=64)
Adrien Aideron
Wise Humans Sword
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 17:31:11 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
I'm actually in FW since almost 4 years so I get in small PvP gangs really often and I'm getting really tired of ECMs, I've got nothing against the idea of the ECM itself but I think it should get nerfed. I think getting a Vigilant worth 300M killed by a small gang of frigs just because there was a 2M worth Griffin in this gang is not normal. The Griffin was able to perma jam my Vigilant for the whole fight, I just had to wait for my death. A corp mate got the same kind of thing with his Tempest, he got perma jammed by a little Griffin (ok it's a minmatar ship but it's a battleship...).
The first idea is : If someone manages to jam a ship, he gets a malus to his ecm chances for the second cycles, if he manages to jam the ship twice, he got a bigger malus for the third cycles. If the jammer fails a cycle the malus resets. A bigger ship could have a smaller malus per successful jam cycle.
The second idea is : if the ship you're trying to jam is bigger than yours, you get a malus to the chances to jam it and the bigger the ship is compared to yours, the bigger the malus will be . (For example if you're in a frigate : you got a 10% malus while trying to jam a dessie, 25% on a cruiser, 50% on a battlecruiser and 90% on a battleship. These numbers are only here for the example).
Ok you could say "Dude, it's called sensor strength..." but this would be added to the current mechanics. This idea would get more people to go out with bigger ECM ships like the Scorpion.
The third idea is to create sizes to the ECM modules (small, medium, heavy) but this would mean create sizes for all other electronic warfare modules (damp, tracking disruptors, etc...) but why not.
Fly safe ! o7 |
![unidenify unidenify](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1463035532/portrait?size=64)
unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
152
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Posted - 2015.10.17 21:55:37 -
[2] - Quote
bigger ship have higher sensor strength, thus reduce chance to jam.
There is counter against ECM, it is called ECCM, Drone* and Auto-targeting missile
*BS should have 5 light drone which will destroy fragile griffin given that it likely to have no tank if it manage to permajam BS somehow. so if your corpmate can't kill griffin with Tempest, it is not because ECM is OP as hell. |
![Bumblefck Bumblefck](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1391276264/portrait?size=64)
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8794
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Posted - 2015.10.17 22:18:10 -
[3] - Quote
ECM is fine, nerf Adrien Aideron nerf threads instead
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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![kimi chon kimi chon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/92352038/portrait?size=64)
kimi chon
Wise Humans Sword
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 22:42:58 -
[4] - Quote
ECM power \o/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/42840121/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/43378870/ |
![Chainsaw Plankton Chainsaw Plankton](https://images.evetech.net/characters/733671405/portrait?size=64)
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1908
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Posted - 2015.10.18 00:04:18 -
[5] - Quote
the new battle brawling griffin should be a ton of fun ![Twisted](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_twisted.png)
unidenify wrote:bigger ship have higher sensor strength, thus reduce chance to jam.
There is counter against ECM, it is called ECCM, Drone* and Auto-targeting missile
*BS should have 5 light drone which will destroy fragile griffin given that it likely to have no tank if it manage to permajam BS somehow. so if your corpmate can't kill griffin with Tempest, it is not because ECM is OP as hell. in solo/small gang it can be hard to justify using a slot for ECM. especially since it only reduces your chance of getting jammed, and unless an ECM ship shows up it doesn't do anything.
fofs go after the nearest target which is almost never going to be an ECM ship. and rarely be a target that makes sense. useful for semi-afk pve sure, pvp maybe not so much.
getting your 5 light drones on said griffin is near impossible when jammed. also since ECM optimal on a griffin is 50km+ that is going to be out of range of many ships, plus if it does start taking hits it can bounce off grid and do drive by attempts at jamming.
as gang size increases organizing jams becomes more difficult and the not jammed ships usually have the ability to volley ECM ships off the field.
@ChainsawPlankto
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![Adrien Aideron Adrien Aideron](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90640664/portrait?size=64)
Adrien Aideron
Wise Humans Sword
1
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Posted - 2015.10.18 17:03:17 -
[6] - Quote
By the way the Tempest had an ECCM overheated |
![Mephiztopheleze Mephiztopheleze](https://images.evetech.net/characters/94858572/portrait?size=64)
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
235
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Posted - 2015.10.19 00:13:40 -
[7] - Quote
Two words: Sensor Dampeners.
Even on an unbonused hull, a lone damp can stop a Griffin jamming anything without getting significantly closer. Of course, you'll need to get the damp on them before they get a jam cycle off on you.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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![Atomeon Atomeon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/199141963/portrait?size=64)
Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2015.10.19 00:39:20 -
[8] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Two words: Sensor Dampeners.
Even on an unbonused hull, a lone damp can stop a Griffin jamming anything without getting significantly closer. Of course, you'll need to get the damp on them before they get a jam cycle off on you.
Two words: Frigate Battleship. Guess who will lock first ![P](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_p.png) |
![Chainsaw Plankton Chainsaw Plankton](https://images.evetech.net/characters/733671405/portrait?size=64)
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1915
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Posted - 2015.10.19 00:40:29 -
[9] - Quote
one damp puts a griffin's lock range at 55km (with leadership gang bonuses, don't make me bust out the gang links) which more or less matches its jams optimal range. I'm not going to consider that a valid counter.
@ChainsawPlankto
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![Mephiztopheleze Mephiztopheleze](https://images.evetech.net/characters/94858572/portrait?size=64)
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
235
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 00:44:56 -
[10] - Quote
so use two then? or have some friends along in EWAR boats?
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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![Chainsaw Plankton Chainsaw Plankton](https://images.evetech.net/characters/733671405/portrait?size=64)
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1915
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 04:52:54 -
[11] - Quote
fit two unbonused damps to go solo roaming to somewhat defend against griffins, brilliant advice!
the bring friends idea is actually a pretty good one. ECM's biggest weakness is more targets. more targets means you have to spread your jams out, and it gets hard to coordinate jams between multiple ecm ships. plus a missed cycle could mean the ecm ship gets blown up as at least one person can target stuff.
I like the idea of solo pvp being something that is accessible, e-war is rather oppressive vs solo targets. ECM seems the most oppressive. TDs you can manage transversal or swap ammos, vs damps close range or try and burn out of range of the damp ship, vs neuts ASB or cap inject, vs ECM start praying. you can keep your tank going but you get hit with 2-3 cycles in a row and you just want to give up. with the other ewars you can try a few things before feeling helpless. heat + links makes for some rather strong ewar, that well usually doesn't result in happy.
@ChainsawPlankto
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![Anize Oramara Anize Oramara](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91322842/portrait?size=64)
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
471
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Posted - 2015.10.19 10:39:34 -
[12] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:fit two unbonused damps to go solo roaming to somewhat defend against griffins, brilliant advice!
the bring friends idea is actually a pretty good one. ECM's biggest weakness is more targets. more targets means you have to spread your jams out, and it gets hard to coordinate jams between multiple ecm ships. plus a missed cycle could mean the ecm ship gets blown up as at least one person can target stuff.
I like the idea of solo pvp being something that is accessible, e-war is rather oppressive vs solo targets. ECM seems the most oppressive. TDs you can manage transversal or swap ammos, vs damps close range or try and burn out of range of the damp ship, vs neuts ASB or cap inject, vs ECM start praying. you can keep your tank going but you get hit with 2-3 cycles in a row and you just want to give up. with the other ewars you can try a few things before feeling helpless. heat + links makes for some rather strong ewar, that well usually doesn't result in happy. Yup, the good ship friendship is your best and sometimes only counter to ecm. That or don't engage at all . It does mean that if people see ECM ships on dscan they suddenly become very weary of engaging. ECM only really adds engaging gameplay for both sides at mid to large sized fights in my opinion. For that reason you don't want to nerf ECM but if theres anything that can be done for solo/small gang no idea. |
![Garrett Osinov Garrett Osinov](https://images.evetech.net/characters/95126176/portrait?size=64)
Garrett Osinov
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2015.10.19 11:13:21 -
[13] - Quote
If you cant play the game, then quit it. And stop whining about nerfs !!!
What stops you to bring griffin yourself, sensor dampener ship, of fit 1 sensor dampener to all of your ships ? |
![Adrien Aideron Adrien Aideron](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90640664/portrait?size=64)
Adrien Aideron
Wise Humans Sword
1
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Posted - 2015.10.19 13:42:27 -
[14] - Quote
Garrett Osinov wrote:What stops you to bring griffin yourself, sensor dampener ship, of fit 1 sensor dampener to each of yours ships ?
1) If it's not the kind of gameplay you like?
2) In small ships you don't have free mid slots for damps or ECCM and as it's been told earlier only one damp won't stop a Griffin trying to jam you. |
![Haatakan Reppola Haatakan Reppola](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93980461/portrait?size=64)
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
107
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Posted - 2015.10.19 14:39:26 -
[15] - Quote
Adrien Aideron wrote:Garrett Osinov wrote:What stops you to bring griffin yourself, sensor dampener ship, of fit 1 sensor dampener to each of yours ships ? 1) If it's not the kind of gameplay you like? 2) In small ships you don't have free mid slots for damps or ECCM and as it's been told earlier only one damp won't stop a Griffin trying to jam you.
Your comparing a very specialised ship that dedicate most of its modules to ECM vs any random ship you can get your hands on. What is the lock range for a Griffin after 1 or 2 damps from a Keres (heated with links?)
Basily EWAR ships are insanely strong when you min/max them for their role |
![PhantomMajor PhantomMajor](https://images.evetech.net/characters/487728317/portrait?size=64)
PhantomMajor
High Flyers Gentlemen's.Club
52
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Posted - 2015.10.20 05:51:11 -
[16] - Quote
there plenty of ways to offset ewar strengths, adapt or die....oh wait you did die.
so endith the lesson on Darwinian evolution |
![Chainsaw Plankton Chainsaw Plankton](https://images.evetech.net/characters/733671405/portrait?size=64)
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1928
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 06:42:25 -
[17] - Quote
a keres is a much better option and rather useful for the small gang, especially a kitey gang.
bringing a keres or counter griffin doesn't really do much when you are solo pvping. there are many solo situations where the soloer can do amazing things. either fighting out numbered and picking people off, managing reps to tank the incoming damage while killing targets, or using smart piloting to fight a larger target. Then someone quickly reships to a griffin with specific jammers, and the soloer gets dead.
big miker nearly soloed a carrier the other day, then they brought an ECM ship. although in this case that didn't work as miker was in a vargur and you can't jam a bastioned marauder. I say nearly soloed because a few of his corp mates showed up to finish it off.
@ChainsawPlankto
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![Dungheap Dungheap](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1937253034/portrait?size=64)
Dungheap
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.10.20 23:50:35 -
[18] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote: in solo/small gang it can be hard to justify using a slot for ECM. especially since it only reduces your chance of getting jammed, and unless an ECM ship shows up it doesn't do anything.
this is the same argument miners used when told to tank their barges against ganking .. they were mocked for complaining about something that has in game counters available .. |
![Anize Oramara Anize Oramara](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91322842/portrait?size=64)
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
474
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 01:49:39 -
[19] - Quote
Dungheap wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote: in solo/small gang it can be hard to justify using a slot for ECM. especially since it only reduces your chance of getting jammed, and unless an ECM ship shows up it doesn't do anything.
this is the same argument miners used when told to tank their barges against ganking .. they were mocked for complaining about something that has in game counters available .. Meaning to or not, that is a strawman argument.
Regardless, ECM is a valid tactic within the framework of the game, I am definitely behind that. Unfortunately it has a very negative effect on solo play. This is also simply a fact. It is not a potential rewarding mechanic the same way being damped or tracking disrupted can be, where through smart piloting on the soloer's part or a mistake on the ewar ship's part it can be overcome. It's just down to luck, for the most part. It sucks dieing to luck, or lack there off. It's an on/of switch, a binary mechanic that removes a level of depth that is part and parcel of Solo play. Once you reach mid to large gang size you have all kinds of fun and interesting counter mechanics that make jamming a fun mechanic again.
That's been my experience. |
![Ace Lapointe Ace Lapointe](https://images.evetech.net/characters/95808055/portrait?size=64)
Ace Lapointe
Duty. Mighty Wings.
1
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Posted - 2015.10.21 02:44:43 -
[20] - Quote
ECM is fine I think, I have fought against Gangs that had Griffon and Blackbird support and they only got 2 Jams off on me over a 4 minute fight, it is all luck, trust me if you want something more frustrating then ECM, wait till your awesome Solo BS gets caught by a single Gal Recon with a Scram and 3-4 Damps, and you will be stuckwith under 20km lock range, and can't warp off, that to me is worse, at least ECM is chance based, and not 100% just cause you are in optimal, ECM boats also have 0 Tank if they are dedicated ECM boats, Damp, TD, TP, Web, Point ships are all Armour Tankers though, so they have massive EHP compared to ECM ships, so it could be worse, it just seems overpowered when you are at it's mercy.
If you want a hard counter for a gang against ECM, use a Armour Tanked Vexor or something like that, that doesn't need to be tackle, and fit it with 1-2 remote ECCM, 2 of those will break a Falcon jam, you can't really complain about ECM when it is the one E-WAR, that is countable both with Local fits, and Remote fits.
But yes, it sucks for Solo pilots trying to fight a gang, but there is ways past it, I would prefer to fight a gang with a Griffon rather then a Damp ship, cause ECM can at least miss and then you pop the ECM ship, Damp don't 'miss', they just let you watch your ship die, I might be the only person that thinks like that, but it is the most logical way to think, people just don't like being jammed because it does give you nothing to do for 20 seconds, where as Damps allow you to still lock things if they get in range, which gives you the feeling that you can still fight back, but a good gang with a dedicated Damp ship will ruin your day 100% if you don't land on top of it, ECM can still fail though. |
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![Chainsaw Plankton Chainsaw Plankton](https://images.evetech.net/characters/733671405/portrait?size=64)
Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1935
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Posted - 2015.10.21 03:47:29 -
[21] - Quote
Dungheap wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote: in solo/small gang it can be hard to justify using a slot for ECM. especially since it only reduces your chance of getting jammed, and unless an ECM ship shows up it doesn't do anything.
this is the same argument miners used when told to tank their barges against ganking .. they were mocked for complaining about something that has in game counters available .. you could always tank a barge and maintain a decent yield. most miners were complaining because they fit all cargo expanders had almost no EHP, and could get ganked by a single catalyst. we called it anti-tanking. in this case no one is actively fitting mods that decrease their sensor strength.
and it isn't a counter, it is something that reduces the chance you get jammed. people with 100+ sensor strength can still get jammed by a 1 point ECM drone. Fitting a tank to a barge isn't a counter against getting ganked, but does increase either the number of ganking ships the gankers need, or the quality of the ship used.
so now I should fit an eccm, a sensor booster, a cap injector, a tracking comp, and a prop mod just to counter the stuff my opponents might bring! oh great now I'm out of slots and can't even point/web my targets
yes it is a trade off of not fitting an ECCM. but I still maintain fitting one isn't a very compelling counter.
yet another point about ECM being strongest vs solo players, and very strong against small gangs, and not so strong in massive fleets.
if I had a fantastic idea about how to change ECM so it was "balanced" I'd be over in F&I talking about it.
@ChainsawPlankto
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![Anize Oramara Anize Oramara](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91322842/portrait?size=64)
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
476
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 08:06:12 -
[22] - Quote
Ace Lapointe wrote:t a hard counter for a gang against ECM, use a Armour Tanked Vexor or something like that, that doesn't need to be tackle, and fit it with 1-2 remote ECCM, 2 of those will break a Falcon jam, you can't really complain about ECM when it is the one E-WAR, that is countable both with Local fits, and Remote fits. Remote Sebo, Remote Tracking Comp, Tracking comp, Sebo, tracking enhancer, Signal amp. The difference between these is that they improve the ship over and above even when they are not being used to counter e-war. ECCM has no such additional utility.
Perhaps adding some kind of utility to eccm modules over and above just *sometimes* countering an ecm ships, if there even is one on field or not, would encourage people to bring an ECCM instead of say, a TC or Sebo. Make it a rewarding choice for the player rather than making him feel like he's being forced to neuter his fit for the off chance that he runs into an ECM ship end gets completely shut down. |
![Amanda Chan Amanda Chan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1563205022/portrait?size=64)
Amanda Chan
Tyrant's Short Bus Syndicate
54
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Posted - 2015.11.01 03:59:23 -
[23] - Quote
or...you could yolo a marauder, dread or super and say screw your ecm ![Pirate](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_pirate.png) |
![Ong Ong](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1123752638/portrait?size=64)
Ong
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
125
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Posted - 2015.11.01 04:57:19 -
[24] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Two words: Sensor Dampeners.
Even on an unbonused hull, a lone damp can stop a Griffin jamming anything without getting significantly closer. Of course, you'll need to get the damp on them before they get a jam cycle off on you.
~~~You are literally the aids that is killing the game from the inside out. Go kill yourself you piece of ****.~~~ |
![Ylein Kashuken Ylein Kashuken](https://images.evetech.net/characters/91150996/portrait?size=64)
Ylein Kashuken
SQUIDS.
2
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Posted - 2015.11.01 11:07:29 -
[25] - Quote
Stop complaining, you would die anyway :D |
![ISD Buldath ISD Buldath](https://images.evetech.net/characters/93816192/portrait?size=64)
ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
198
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Posted - 2015.11.01 14:50:33 -
[26] - Quote
Topic moved to FANDI.
~ISD Buldath
Interstellar Services Department
Support, Training and Resources Division
Lt. Commander
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![afkalt afkalt](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90040903/portrait?size=64)
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2339
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Posted - 2015.11.01 16:45:17 -
[27] - Quote
ISD Buldath wrote:Topic moved to FANDI.
Aw come on bro, there's clearly enough shiptoasting down here already.
Plus I'm only going to have to report it for being unoriginal and redundant ![What?](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/Images/Emoticons/ccp_question.png) |
![Reaver Glitterstim Reaver Glitterstim](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1017580736/portrait?size=64)
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2705
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Posted - 2015.11.02 01:25:55 -
[28] - Quote
I like your ideas and they bear similarities with other ECM proposals going around, but I don't feel a nerf is in order. ECM needs to be changed, yes. But not due to how strong it is. If you take a 300 million ISK ship against a small fleet, that's your first mistake. If the Griffin weren't able to pacify your Vigilant, they would have just brought a Maulus instead. In the end, rich babies will have their toys taken away from them, such is the nature of EVE Online.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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![FT Diomedes FT Diomedes](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1173578059/portrait?size=64)
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1883
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Posted - 2015.11.02 02:47:44 -
[29] - Quote
Pilot goes solo roaming. Runs into a gang that is prepared for him. He dies. Instead of bringing friends, he posts another whine thread on the forums. Welcome to Eve.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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![afkalt afkalt](https://images.evetech.net/characters/90040903/portrait?size=64)
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2340
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Posted - 2015.11.02 08:56:11 -
[30] - Quote
Paging Aliventi for an updated version, this is the google one I hit.
Aliventi wrote:There is nothing wrong with ECM: A substantiation with numbers Version 1.0.3 10/21/13 By: Aliventi A work in progress. To be refined as more "ECM is OP/wrong/bad" threads pop up. If you step back and take a look, ECM is arguably the least destructive of the EWAR varieties with the exception of TPs. A sensor dampener can lower a ship's targeting range to the point that it can't lock anything. Tracking disruptors lower the tracking on a ship to the point it can't actually hit anything. How frustrating is it that you can lock a target, but you can't track well enough to even hit it? Of course, TDs don't work against logistics, EWAR, or missile boats. That would make TDs less effective than ECM. In other words, ECM, damps, and tracking disruption all have the potential to remove enemies from the fight. ECM and damps prevent you from locking, and TDs prevent your guns from doing anything effective. ECM is balanced in the way that it has a non-trivial chance of outright failing none of the other EWARs have. In fact SDs, TDs, and TPs never miss. ECM effects lasts 20 seconds whereas SD and TD effects last for as long as the module is activated. Another balancing factor is that ECM is a mid-slot module in a race that is purely shield tanking. The other three races can fill their mids with EWAR and put together a reasonable armor tank. It is no mystery that this is why the CFC celestis fleets are so successful. They are combining never miss EWAR with a bonused ship that can tank long enough for logi to rep them. Caldari ships can put together a tissue paper armor tank at best. One more reason ECM is less effective than the other types of EWARs is that to be effective in all situations a ECM ship needs to fit 4 specialized modules compared to the 1 generalized module that TDs, SDs and TPs enjoy. This means that tank is often sacrificed to reacha bare minimum of effectiveness. "That is all fine and dandy," You say "but ECM is still too powerful". Why don't we take a look at some numbers? Take a T2 Minmatar jammer. The ECM Phase Inverter II has a Ladar jam strength of 3.6. Jammer vs Rifter: 3.6/8 sensor strength = 45% chance of a jam or 55% chance of doing nothing. Jammer vs Stabber: 3.6/13 sensor strength = 27.69% chance of a jam or 72.31% chance of doing nothing. Jammer vs Hurricane: 3.6/16 sensor strength = 22.5% chance of a jam or 77.5% chance of doing nothing. Jammer vs Tempest: 3.6/20 sensor strength = 18% chance of a jam or 82% chance of doing nothing. See? hardly anything wrong with ECM. Even against the most basic frigate it will fail more times than it will succeed. Imagine if your guns, hardeners, point, MWD, etc. had that fail rate. *shudder* You see your issue is not truly with ECM. Your issue, is in fact, with the ECM bonused hulls. Take a Falcon with all level 5 skills fit with racial jammers, 2 Sensor Distortion Amps, and one ECM strength rig and let's look at those numbers again. All level 5 Falcon vs. Sensor Comp. 5 ship: Jammer vs Rifter: 14.2/9.6 sensor strength = 100% chance of jamming Jammer vs Stabber: 14.2/15.6 sensor strength = 91.02% chance of jamming Jammer vs Hurricane: 14.2/19.2 sensor strength = 73.95% chance of jamming Jammer vs Tempest: 14.2/24 sensor strength = 59.16% chance of jamming That really isn't OP at all. Considering the vast amount of training one has to accomplish to become a perfect Falcon pilot. In comparison the time it take to train a racial sensor comp to 5 or fit an ECCM module is trivial. In addition a Falcon has a tissue paper tank, a non-trivial chance of missing a jam, and unlike the other forms of EWAR it doesn't last forever. Now you are likely to bring up a rather painful point in small gang and solo PvP: The ECM drone. Why don't we take a look at those? EC-300 drone strength is 1. Jammer vs Rifter: 1/9.6 sensor strength = 10.41% chance of jamming Jammer vs Stabber: 1/15.6 sensor strength = 6.41% chance of jamming Jammer vs Hurricane: 1/19.2 sensor strength = 5.23% chance of jamming Jammer vs Tempest: 1/24 sensor strength = 4.16% chance of jamming EC-600 drone strength is 1.5. Jammer vs Rifter: 1.5/9.6 sensor strength = 15.62% chance of jamming Jammer vs Stabber: 1.5/15.6 sensor strength = 9.61% chance of jamming Jammer vs Hurricane: 1.5/19.2 sensor strength = 7.81% chance of jamming Jammer vs Tempest: 1.5/24 sensor strength = 6.25% chance of jamming Neither of those scream OP at all. "Now that isn't the real story" you exclaim "Most ships have 5!" True: (How to calculate: Link calculator: Link (P (X>=1)) is the important number) 5 EC-300 jam strength 1: vs Rifter: 42.28% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Stabber: 28.19% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Hurricane: 23.55% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Tempest: 21.02% chance of jamming with 5 drones. For 25m3 of drones these do seem a touch too powerful. I would recommend a reduction in jam strength down to .75. 5 EC-600 jam strength 1.5: vs Rifter: 57.22% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Stabber: 39.66% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Hurricane: 33.40% chance of jamming with 5 drones. vs Tempest: Or 27.58% chance of jamming with 5 drones. For 50m3 of drones these seem very well balanced for their size. You see in the grand scheme of things ECM is neither OP, broken, wrong, out of place, or any of the other things people claim ECM is. It is merely a different and perfectly valid form of EWAR. It is high-risk high-reward, only truly effective on bonused hulls (as it should be) which at best can manage a tissue paper tank when fitting jams, and doesn't last forever like the other forms of EWAR. All things considered, it is perfectly in line with the other forms of EWAR. What's so wrong with that? |
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