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Are you happy with the Contract system?

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Fto Cruise	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:08:00 - [1] Well, it has its uses, but when it comes to buying and selling , for me, it fails miserably. So, are you happy with it as is, or are there changes you'd like to see implemented?
Nimie	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:18:00 - [2] raise default to two contracts.
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:23:00 - [3] no im not happy. the contract system is not so bad but without the possibility to have all mods show up on market when put for sale there the contract system itself isnt designed for selling of items like escrow were. and for the love of whatever god you believe in let me contract containers if i want to damnit!!!!! Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:25:00 - [4] I've looked at it once since kali, it's unusable. Needs a setting to view all regions on a single page like before.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:27:00 - [5] Needs to look more like the old escrow system, but with contract functionality and please fix all of the contract bugs that are being exploited.
Cupertino Castellum	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:28:00 - [6] It's not nearly as useful as Escrow.
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:29:00 - [7] Originally by: Cupertino It's not nearly as useful as Escrow. escrow was a mess. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Athren Soulsteal Gallente Intergalaxy Salvage And Repair	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:31:00 - [8] Actally you can contract a container of stuff. But the limit on contracts is way to low, at least 5 with aditional per trade skill should be available. Quote: Think about the people that did fight you fairly. Think.... that were honorable and helped you out in times of need. Those are the real heroes of EVE. I wish I could fit all the Quote
Fodderrr	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:34:00 - [9] Its annoying i cant set up a courier mission for cruisers/bc because it calculates a ships default m3 instead of its repackaged m3 and theres a limit to how big the courier m3 can be. And im being taxed!
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Cupertino It's not nearly as useful as Escrow. escrow was a mess. escrow was simplistic but did the job perfectly, i wanted XYZ, there it was ready to buy after inspection. now finding stuff is just luck...
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:36:00 - [11] Originally by: tiller Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Cupertino It's not nearly as useful as Escrow. escrow was a mess. escrow was simplistic but did the job perfectly, i wanted XYZ, there it was ready to buy after inspection. now finding stuff is just luck... well, if they sorted so all faction and officer items showed up in the regular market interface i could live with it. and a slightly higher base amount of contracts. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Drachma Golea	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Fto Cruise Well, it has its uses, but when it comes to buying and selling , for me, it fails miserably. So, are you happy with it as is, or are there changes you'd like to see implemented? The only 3 things I actually don't like is 1. That in the simple view you get to see the contract name or something 2. Scamming is just so easy. (descriptions like zydrine x 40000, but it's really only 1 zydrine offered, and you have to open the contract for that. 3. you can only search 1 region at a time.
LordSlay Them Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:44:00 - [13] I hate it. I used to be able to escrow anything, anywhere, in an XYZ fashion. Now, I have to BE IN THE REGION, and the tax is just stupid. It was nice being in empire and have my alt in 0.0 and just say "escrow to: alt" while still in emp and have my alt get it. Now....pffft, I have to friggn be there beside him to trade anything, why not just TRADE. Contrcts are nigh useless, go ahead CCP, screw them up the rest of the way to make this game a tad bit more unplayable and full of bugs. It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Hohenheim OfLight Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:52:00 - [14] contracts have removed all the usfull features that we had and replaced them with crap, its flassh crap but its still crap none the less. For the love of god ccp sort it out. ---------------------------------------------- Gone but not forgotten
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:54:00 - [15] It pretty much sucks.
Tousaka Langley	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:56:00 - [16] I prefer it to escrow.
Caesium Amarr Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:05:00 - [17] Can not place bids on auctions from remote regions - retarded Can not do a search against all regions - retarded Can not search for Module* (ie x-type - all modules) - retarded Can contract fitted ships with cargo intact - good Can auction (albeit with above limitation) - good Overall right direction poor implementation. Caesium Lyrus Associates
Hellraiza666 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:08:00 - [18] I prefer the old escrow system. Now i cant escrow stuff cause owner of station dont like me . So how am i suppose to sell my old ships and equip now?
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:10:00 - [19] No. Outrageous tax, outrageous deposits, stupidly low number of contracts by default (Oh good, time to train even more useless skills), horribly confusing interface (We'll show # of items here, but not there), restricted to single regions, stupidly low limit of number of items you can put into a contract, et cetera. It'll be perfectly servicable once more work is done on tweaking things, but for now, the old escrow system lords over it like Gold Bender lords his cowboy hat over normal Bender. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:14:00 - [20] Worst feature since jump queues. Interface is too complicated, too many steps just to set up one single item, I could aswell use the market and have nearly the same costs, only good thing is the search funktion and sorting the list. Ship lovers click here
DarkPanther Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:20:00 - [21] I prefer escrow but ccp sort the map out first plz tar
Elliot Reid Digital Fury Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:25:00 - [22] I put something on a contract for my alt but she couldn't see it. I've done it before and had no problem but last night it started to really **** me off . I had to cancel the contract and trade. I was just trying to save me travelling to the same system. _______________________________
Rekless Revenge Knights of Ni	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:28:00 - [23] It is nice and has lots of good points over the old Escrow, but it does have its downside as already pointed out. However, it could have potential for all these things to get sorted out. Personally I will never, ever, ever use contracts to buy stuff until CCP fix how easy it is to scam people. Even if you check, re-check, triple check, you still don't really know if you are about to be scammed. At least in the old Escrow you could determine a scam by a simple check. So in the end I only really use it swap stuff between me and my alt.
Pick Me	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:33:00 - [24] Edited by: Pick Me on 28/12/2006 17:34:28 Yes, very happy! Anything that prevent people from doing boring actions repeatedly like refreshing their escrows, is very good. For unique items, you use contract, for the rest, the market like everyone else. You pay tax everywhere. When there is only one item, they should really put a "x 1" next to the item description thou. Escrow is like the old trade channel, you think you need it until you realise you are better without it if you only change the way you see the world. It's all good! Now they remove auctions from the forum completely (forcing it into contract) and we are all set.
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:34:00 - [25] Hate it. Hate it more than I hate the new map, and I hate that quite a lot Only being able to search 1 region at a time is the most retarded decision ever. As if Jita wasn't concentrated enough already. The 2nd most retarded decision ever was the one to omit the "x 1" when there's only 1 unit of something. Like.... DUH! Moronic. Contracts interface is counter-intuitive and clearly untested. CCP mae the worst interfaces known to mankind and contracts have expanded the awfulness. I give the Contracts system a 3/10. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:35:00 - [26] Originally by: tiller Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Cupertino It's not nearly as useful as Escrow. escrow was a mess. escrow was simplistic but did the job perfectly, i wanted XYZ, there it was ready to buy after inspection. now finding stuff is just luck... There's a search function, that sorta throws your "luck" idea out.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:46:00 - [27] Originally by: tiller escrow was simplistic but did the job perfectly, i wanted XYZ, there it was ready to buy after inspection. now finding stuff is just luck... Escrow was basically just another, better version of the market. It got you around broker fees and such and you could advertise everywhere. I frankly saw no reason for the market when there was escrow since you can't put faction items on market. The amount of default contracts you can do is rather low but I have no problem with contracts beyond that. I also like how you can right click on an item in your hanger and select 'create contract'. I've put a few items in escrow by accident before. I found the escrow interface rather bad. Sometimes it looked as if certain items were selected even though I never clicked on them. Originally by: Hellraiza666 I prefer the old escrow system. Now i cant escrow stuff cause owner of station dont like me . So how am i suppose to sell my old ships and equip now? Crazy idea. Just off the top of my head. Don't put stuff in stations of people who don't like you. How's that?
Goneanti Swift	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:47:00 - [28] I'm not very fond of the contract system. It's extremely limited in several areas. The worst part I see of the fees and deposits and such is, if someone gets lucky and gets a very expensive item, the cost to put it up for auction could be completely outside the resources of a seller. Say you're a fairly new character running a cosmos mission, and you get a data interface bpo. Putting it up for auction could easily cost that character 30-40 million in fees and deposits, which is more than that character has probably touched over his life. He can't sell it on the market, he can't sell it on contract, so they're left trying to sell it in the forums, or in chat channels. Similar things with storyline mission or LP rewards, T2 bpo luck, etc. That seems like a major failure in the new system to me, if it's preferable to use OOG communications over the in-game system you designed.
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Goneanti Swift I'm not very fond of the contract system. It's extremely limited in several areas. The worst part I see of the fees and deposits and such is, if someone gets lucky and gets a very expensive item, the cost to put it up for auction could be completely outside the resources of a seller. Say you're a fairly new character running a cosmos mission, and you get a data interface bpo. Putting it up for auction could easily cost that character 30-40 million in fees and deposits, which is more than that character has probably touched over his life. He can't sell it on the market, he can't sell it on contract, so they're left trying to sell it in the forums, or in chat channels. Similar things with storyline mission or LP rewards, T2 bpo luck, etc. That seems like a major failure in the new system to me, if it's preferable to use OOG communications over the in-game system you designed. Cosmos don't drop data interfaces exploration does and also a "new" charcter running cosmos needs hacking and archaeology to nab the good stuff. If they are running cosmos they arent that dumb or new they can also spam local with WTS.
Goneanti Swift	Posted - 2006.12.28 18:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Phyrr Cosmos don't drop data interfaces exploration does and also a "new" charcter running cosmos needs hacking and archaeology to nab the good stuff. If they are running cosmos they arent that dumb or new they can also spam local with WTS. You missed the whole point getting hung up on a bad example, but at the same time completely justified my point. If shouting "WTS BPO" is a more preferred method of making the sell, auctions are failing.
Taliac Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.28 18:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Rekless Revenge It is nice and has lots of good points over the old Escrow, but it does have its downside as already pointed out. However, it could have potential for all these things to get sorted out. So in the end I only really use it swap stuff between me and my alt. I didn't use escrow much, only to swap items with an alt. I was able to put many items from several stations i wanted on escrow, log out and take them with my alt. Now it's to time consuming to switch all the items. And i'm not going to train the skill for it.
d026 Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader The Pentagram	Posted - 2006.12.28 18:29:00 - [32] its horrible to use. i liked escrow better, thought escrow with the search function as we have it now would be the ****e!
Damon Ra	Posted - 2006.12.28 18:36:00 - [33] The new contracts system is O.K. but needs a little refining to be more usable. 1) Allow bids to be placed on auctions from anywhere, not just the same region. 2) Remove the requirement that a corp have an office in the system where you want to place an exchange contract on behalf of corp. Stress tested Tech II Hamsters for sale
Draqun Caldari Wo Zhi Dao Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.28 19:01:00 - [34] Originally by: Xendie Originally by: Cupertino It's not nearly as useful as Escrow. escrow was a mess. which is why this system is so bad. --------------------------------------- First rule of playing EVE online If your too paranoid to play Eve your not paranoid enough to play Eve
Sylvia Frost Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.28 19:24:00 - [35] I don't like it so far. I have been able to search a bit for things, but overall I miss being able to see stuff on escrow with multiple regions. I am having a problem just doing item exchanges with me alt. For some reason I can never pick them up.....they seem to be non-exhistant.
Hellraiza666 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.28 19:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Hellraiza666 I prefer the old escrow system. Now i cant escrow stuff cause owner of station dont like me . So how am i suppose to sell my old ships and equip now? Crazy idea. Just off the top of my head. Don't put stuff in stations of people who don't like you. How's that? Wait, so im suppose to stay in the same corp forever and never leave the same station ?
Dhalia Dal	Posted - 2006.12.28 21:04:00 - [37] Its OK, but it needs to have the buggyness worked out. Currently there is a bug where a courier contract you issued doesn't get delivered and you cannot get your collateral back after the delivery time has expired. The contact just sits there saying it needs attention, but you can't do anything with it.
Malakai0 Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.28 21:17:00 - [38] Originally by: Caesium Can not place bids on auctions from remote regions - retarded Can not do a search against all regions - retarded Can not search for Module* (ie x-type - all modules) - retarded Can contract fitted ships with cargo intact - good Can auction (albeit with above limitation) - good Overall right direction poor implementation. This sums it up perfectly IMO. _________________________ Level 3 Member of Eye of God
D'an Y'eal Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.28 21:52:00 - [39] Edited by: D''an Y''eal on 28/12/2006 21:57:37 Originally by: Fto Cruise Well, it has its uses, but when it comes to buying and selling , for me, it fails miserably. So, are you happy with it as is, or are there changes you'd like to see implemented? First let me say 'yes' I am quite happy with the new contract system. What I am unhappy with are the people who complain about it because they can't understand the old escrow system was never meant to circumvent actual markets. They have now fixed that, either train the skill to use more escrows or train the skills to use the markets better. People who kill other people have a saying in eve 'adapt or die' the same applies to contracts. I'm also sick of hearing from the "zomg! new time-sink skilz" whiners. I've been playing this game for over 3 years and that's just the way the game goes. Sometimes you have to train new skills just to get back to what you were doing before (markets, mining specialization, etc) and sometimes the new skills give you enhanced capabilities (surgical strike, missle upgrade skills etc.). I do sympathize with the folks who actually make extensive use of courier contracts. In a lot of cases you guys need your stuff moved and you are giving newbs a chance at earning some money. I salute you in your efforts and would support a new skill allowing more public courier contracts. **edit** Above comments are not about bugginess and usefullness: yes please fix the bugs, sure go ahead and add wildcards to search, allow searching multiple regions, etc. I don't like hear the argument which can be summed up "Whaaaaa, I want to sell my stuff and not use the market"
M'rvn Monki Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.28 23:38:00 - [40] Long time lurker, first time poster; hi all. Originally by: D'an Y'eal Edited by: D''an Y''eal on 28/12/2006 21:57:37 Originally by: Fto Cruise Well, it has its uses, but when it comes to buying and selling , for me, it fails miserably. So, are you happy with it as is, or are there changes you'd like to see implemented? First let me say 'yes' I am quite happy with the new contract system. What I am unhappy with are the people who complain about it because they can't understand the old escrow system was never meant to circumvent actual markets. They have now fixed that, either train the skill to use more escrows or train the skills to use the markets better. People who kill other people have a saying in eve 'adapt or die' the same applies to contracts. I'm also sick of hearing from the "zomg! new time-sink skilz" whiners. I've been playing this game for over 3 years and that's just the way the game goes. Sometimes you have to train new skills just to get back to what you were doing before (markets, mining specialization, etc) and sometimes the new skills give you enhanced capabilities (surgical strike, missle upgrade skills etc.). I do sympathize with the folks who actually make extensive use of courier contracts. In a lot of cases you guys need your stuff moved and you are giving newbs a chance at earning some money. I salute you in your efforts and would support a new skill allowing more public courier contracts. **edit** Above comments are not about bugginess and usefullness: yes please fix the bugs, sure go ahead and add wildcards to search, allow searching multiple regions, etc. I don't like hear the argument which can be summed up "Whaaaaa, I want to sell my stuff and not use the market" I want to sell my stuff but the market won't let me waaah. I want to buy bpc's but the market won't let me waaah. ... (sometime later) ... I want to get a good deal too waah. (is waah an acyronym or something? nm) so ok, what about items that can't go into the regular market? The idea that a sorted list is alpha sorted by page is, well stupid. I want to use the contracts system to buy and sell, not an 'spot the item you're looking for' game having to check every single page for every single region, if i want to be thorough. If there is a way to get all the items up for sale of a given type, please tell me. And the change and adapt argument doesn't work for me, 'if something is broken, fix it'; does. Oh and how do you see the current bid price rather than the starting bid price; that would save time if the item had exceeded what I am prepared to pay? The contracts system is worse than escrow (and that was pretty bad tbh) and alot of effort has gone into this but there are fundamental flaws in what a db search return should offer. Scamming appears to have been built in also. Scamming in eve? By all means but for goodness sake don't put a button on the contracts system (x1 item in the Description please) if this was intentional then it is really lame as the people who get hurt are the occasional and new users. It is bad for business. p.s. this is my main.
Hephaesteus Gallente PILGRIMS Insane Asylum	Posted - 2006.12.28 23:47:00 - [41] Prefered escrow least you could find what you wanted. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.12.28 23:59:00 - [42] The real question is: what do you nominate for the worst design of the year award - new map or the contract system? If you want a constructive post, dig up the old threads back when CCP released the first blogs. Ironically enough, we could tell CCP the shortcomings of the system long before ever having seen it. You will be suprised about what you will read.
Akat Slacker Industries	Posted - 2006.12.29 00:24:00 - [43] Depends on how you look at it and it can be either good or bad. Overall, I feel a fix is needed to at least allow "remote" bidding/acceptance. As a seller, its horrible because one can only look at it region by region. This essentially limits the contract to the region where the contract exists. As a buyer, there is the same problem. BUT it is also the **** because its so useless. I know I've had MANY good scores because I was the only and lowest bidder on a few auctions.
Azrael Maxim Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.29 00:41:00 - [44] Escrow was simpler, contracts could get better over time. I do not mind the tax and skills needed, I do mind that contracts are a lot more restrictive then escrow was. There needs to be a global trade system as the trade hubs are overflowing now since everybody is forced to sell there, this is compeletely retarted and was warned about by lots of concerned people before contracts were introduced. Improvements needed: Global search and global bidding. The ability to search per alphabetic letter globally, just type in D to find anything starting with D etc. The ability to contract illegal goods.
Nathanial Victor	Posted - 2006.12.29 01:09:00 - [45] contract system = I liked escrow system a million times more. Ppl at CCP work hard, but sometimes i think they working too hard on things that need zero attention. Someone at CCP's dev team needs to make a big banner for the office that says "If it isn't broke, dont fix it!" god knows there are plenty of broken / poorly implimented things they can focus their attention on.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2006.12.29 01:15:00 - [46] I am very happy with the contract system. It does what it was meant to do perfectly. I am also happy that Escrow got nerfed. No more people selling billions of stuff with no taxes. For selling/buying, use the market. If you want to escape the market fees, do what people do in RL: trade in-person under the table. =================================== Above comments are my personal views Originally by: Oveur Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.12.29 01:46:00 - [47] Originally by: hydraSlav I am also happy that Escrow got nerfed. No more people selling billions of stuff with no taxes. For selling/buying, use the market. If you want to escape the market fees, do what people do in RL: trade in-person under the table. And this adds to the game what? Hassle? Inconveniance? Reduced trade volumes? Reduced aviability of goods?
El Marchetto	Posted - 2006.12.29 01:53:00 - [48] Edited by: El Marchetto on 29/12/2006 01:53:38 Edit: spelling. Most of previous posters have covered the main gripes I have with Contracts...except 1... Anyone else noticed, that when you sort on Amount, it actually does a partial ASCI sort and not a numeric value based sort? Someone in the QA team, please deliver a sharp genital cuff to the 'developer' who did that please
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.29 01:55:00 - [49] should at the very least have partial name search ability, fixed named searches are not helpfull 1 bit, having to individually name each and every variant of a module u want. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.29 01:56:00 - [50] Edited by: Xtro 2 on 29/12/2006 01:57:42 Maybe set it up very similar to the layout of the standard market, or somehow merge the 2, the basic market already has buy / sell order ability, just expand the rubbish contracts system into a revamped market.. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically
RtoZ	Posted - 2006.12.29 02:04:00 - [51] I think the contract system is a good concept with a totally flawed execution. The Bad: Divided by regions. And by god there is a lot of them. Totally impratical to search for what you want. Overworked Interface. Way too many options. All we really needed was a global sell option, a courier option and a global buy option. And of course the item description, with correct display of quantities when applicable. Totally retarded filter options, which are useless anyways, since the whole piece of crap system is devided by regions and you're not gonna find what you want anyways, unless you look for it in lonetrek, where you have a marginally better chance. More skills. For the love of god, don't we have enough filler skills in the game allready? What a waste of my time. More expenses. Why is it so expensive when the piece of crap is not even global? The Good: It got rid of the vast majority of retarded spammers and scammers. That would be worth the expense if the system was global. My personal advice to ccp, as a small time trader, would be keep the general interface, simplify the design a bit according to the above stated, make the system global and put results out on a table, similar to escrow. That would be good enough for me to stomach the taxes and the skills and not feel ripped off. Also bare in mind that escrow never replaced market, it was simply an interface for direct trade of low availability goods, and as such deserved its place. The contract system should have built on that, not replaced it with this uneffective pile of dosh we have now. So yeah, I guess I hate it.
eXtas Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.29 02:31:00 - [52] I like it, a lot beter then escrow was. but still not perfect :( Like yesterday I noticed I cant contract a ship to a corpmate because it had ammo loaded in it's guns... and I was scrambling a carrier and needed some help most other downsides have allready been talked about here.. actualy I like not beeing able to check more then one region at a time.. tho it would be nice to be able to search for just x-type or dark blood items :) not sure what I think about the tax... kinda sucked to sell a gist-x shield booster well its still beter then escrow
Jayoel	Posted - 2006.12.29 02:36:00 - [53] What about this as way to solve auctions. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=451816
D'an Y'eal Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.29 03:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Xtro 2 Edited by: Xtro 2 on 29/12/2006 01:57:42 Maybe set it up very similar to the layout of the standard market, or somehow merge the 2, the basic market already has buy / sell order ability, just expand the rubbish contracts system into a revamped market.. That's the entire point. Just use market. If the thing can't be sold I market I get that, but that is an entirely different thing: fix the market so it can be sold. DO NOT make escrow/contracts into some sort of "I want to specialize but not invest the skills" market. I don't care if you can't sell something globally using the standard market. Too damn bad. I don't care if you can't do it with contracts and you could with escrow, CCP didn't want it quite that way and they changed it.
Moxprow Darkness Realized	Posted - 2006.12.29 06:14:00 - [55] I'll let you know if I ever get to use it
Linavin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.29 06:24:00 - [56] Contracts needs an every region page like escrow, and it also needs bidding/claiming escrow from anywhere. Limiting bids and claims to regions is an unnecessary pain in the arse, right now I need to jumpclone back to empire when ever I get outbid. ---
Sinder Ohm Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.29 08:29:00 - [57] I dont like the new contracts at all. 1. I cant view all the contracts (I used to realy enjoy sitting with my morning coffe surfing escrow looking for possable bargains and just generaly window shopping) 2. Its far to easy to scam with contracts ... if you got scammed in escrow it was your own fault cos you didnt inspect the goods. 3. Better graphics != better market system !!11 I would have escrow back any day!!11 and please please the new map is even worse than the new market. If I use the new map once a week its alot I avoid it like the plauge. happy new year none the less Originally by: Blind Man okies so liek when u warp in on them u shod target them... and stuff k.then u FIRE ZE MISSILES
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.29 08:43:00 - [58] I like contracts, but we need 2 things: 1. A much higher base amount of contracts. Like 10. 2. The ability to view all contracts in a region of any type, so you can just scroll through all of them.
Sally Va	Posted - 2006.12.29 08:54:00 - [59] Plain and simple ? Contract system are a big PITA. Oh and buggy OMG so buggy. -Sorting on time left on auctions gives you like: 1 day 1 hour 10 days 2 days 2 hours etc.. I simply cannot fathom how they did not see this bug when they coded/implemented it. If I were to program something like this for a paying customer, they'd fracking SUE me. Not being able to bid on auctions in other regions is complete and utter nonsense, and it defeats the whole purpose of the system. All it creates is more clogging up of the already clogged up super-trade-hubs (JITA-RENS etc..) More skills for more contracts (more than 1 !? lol) is a timesink to keep us busy. I personally wish CCP would get their act together, because lately, they have dropped the ball on every single thing they did (bar the Tier3 BS/BC - which are actually cool)
Hari Sel'don Gallente Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2006.12.29 08:55:00 - [60] It has led to even more centralization of already over crowded trade hubs. It has led to even more overcrowding of the sales forums which are a complete tragic mess. OMFG how hard would it be to create a couple more forum channels! I think i'm going insane...
Ghitza Backup Squad	Posted - 2006.12.29 10:03:00 - [61] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers The real question is: what do you nominate for the worst design of the year award - new map or the contract system? If you want a constructive post, dig up the old threads back when CCP released the first blogs. Ironically enough, we could tell CCP the shortcomings of the system long before ever having seen it. You will be suprised about what you will read. Good post. The problem is simple - some ppl in CCP done their job improperly. Guy who designed contracts has no idea about some in-game things. How much such stuff will we see in game from such ppl in future? I fear that its only begining... Fix those damn contracts.
Cyclops43	Posted - 2006.12.29 11:34:00 - [62] Edited by: Cyclops43 on 29/12/2006 11:36:04 After having used the contract system a bit, and having used the old escrow system a lot, I'd like to make a few comments for possible improvements. First of all, I like the concept behind the new contract system. If it had been implemented right, it would have been a great addition to EVE, and made the forum market section more or less obsolete for ingame items. As can probably be guessed, I do not think it was implemented right. There are a lot of good ideas, but it is plainly obvious that the end user has NOT been consulted in how the system should work. This is a serious oversight when developing a software system, and unfortunately makes the current contract system less usable than the old escrow system was even considering all its faults. Now, my main points of critique: 1. The region split is NOT a good thing. It might have been thought out for performance reasons (i.e. so different markets are split on separate servers), or it might have been put in to enforce greater regionalisation in EVE. If for the first of these reasons, there might not be a great deal to do about it (hardware/system limits can be hard to get around), but it is still bad design. If for the second reason, it is probably working in exact the opposite way since most trade will happen in Jita, i.e. creating LESS regionisation, not more. 2. It is in practical terms impossible to browse the market. The only two options you have is either to browse ALL items in a specific region, or look up individual specific items in a specific region. This is so user-unfriendly that it is beyond belief. You can not browse for faction items alone, unless you do every one of them by themselves, etc. 3. High fees and artificial limitations makes it impossible to use the system for low-value items. The fees for using the contract system has been increased by several 1000% percent compared to the old escrow system. It is no longer possible to make a profit on relatively low-value BPC's for example, since the fees are so high, and artificial limits as the 1 million minimum bid on auctions makes it even harder. This has probably been done to limit spam, but it is a bad solution as it limits trade as well. 4. Lots of items being removed from the market. This was a bad decision too. Every type of individual (non-customised, i.e. not BPC's) item should be sellable on the market, period! This include all faction gear etc. It would remove a lot of contract entries from that system, making it easier to browse, and since BOTH systems have a region limit, it wouldn't really take away anything. Currently, for example items like the drone AI units dropped by the Silence the Informant level 4 missions can not be sold through the marked, even though it is a very common item. There are other types as well. Keep pure sales on the market and use the contract system for more advanced stuff. Continued below!
Cyclops43	Posted - 2006.12.29 11:34:00 - [63] Ok, now I've lined up a few of the bad things about the current system. What do I think can be done to improve it. 1. Either make a search option across all regions (with possible limits of high-sec, low-sec, 0.0), or remove the regions altogether. We do NOT need Jita to be THE trade center of the EVE universe. 2. There need to be WAY more options to limit your browsing. This may be heavy on the database searches, but it needs to be there to make a usable system. The search options I can think off right now are: a. BPC's included/excluded b. BPO's included/excluded c. Ships included/excluded d. Ship equipment included/excluded e. Faction items included/excluded f. Officer items included/excluded g. Market items included/excluded (i.e. items that are on the market) 3. Make the fees WAY lower, and remove all artificial limits. I know you like ISK sinks, but replacing a system like escrow (though it had faults) that was usable and cheap, with a system that is too expensive is not really the way to go. Artificial limits like the 1 million auction floor is bad too as it inhibits the usability. Real-life studies of ebay auctions have shown that the auctions that fetch the highest price are the ones starting low! 4. Add all standard items (including officer and faction) BACK to the market. It takes some pressure off contracts, and makes it easier for the users. Well, that was my 0.02 ISK. Comments?
Thetys Surfer des Sandwurms	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:16:00 - [64] good constructive posts so far! what i would like to see is that some of the bugs(?) would get fixed. example: atm i cannot search for thorn rage rocket BPO, but i can create a contract (same thing with many other t2 bpos, if not with all?) - bug? wanted? the multiple item contract view is in heavy need of a resizeable window (you can only show 3 items at once - omg sucks!!) sorting things by price should do so (atm it is somewhat screwed up) blocked persons should not appear in any list of the contract view (bohoo scammers!) and finally, something really not important - but the search mask of the contract window looks like they were made in 5 minutes, devs, take another 15mins and place text input fields a bit more nicely, in line, some a bit larger, some a bit smaller, raise your esthetic requirements for ui masks :))) i made so many of them and i know how tempting it is to "just" make them work and do not care bout the layout, but thats real quality guys regards thetys ------
Neon Genesis Gallente Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:21:00 - [65] It's all a huge downgrade without the show all regions option that escrow had. Pretty much means if you have something to sell, go to Jita, or risk going through 10 contracts and selling nothing.
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:36:00 - [66] My issue with it is that it is too easy to scam people in it. Contract or marketing skills should also bring down the fees.
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.29 12:48:00 - [67] I was actually going to say that there's just two or three regions that do 90% of the interesting contracts, so searching through say Heimatar and The Forge should provide most of your needs, but I'll say if searching across ALL regions makes Jita and Rens less of a hub I'm all for it. Doing escrows from space is a good thing. Auctions per se are a good thing, just too bad I won't bid on out-of region offers, which excludes said 90% of offers. A few niggles should be sorted, too. Couriers on repackaged ships use the wrong size, no ammo in ships and no way to remotely take it out without repackaging, no amount shown on single items, little pests like these. Let's see what fixes CCP comes up with first, must be any time soon (tm). -- Thukkers do
Liklin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.29 15:48:00 - [68] Had 5 crows, made a contract, same station, using 2 different accounts (both mine) a 2 week contract from account a to account b simple right ? nope, account a, could see the contract. account b had no contracts issued to it, not by account a, or by anyone else anywhere ever. except that account a, could clearly see there was a contract issued to account b in the same station. result :- cancelled contract and retrieved goods with account a opened trade window with account b traded goods to account b and realised right there that contracts dont work. *personally i think that CCP cant make it idiot proof without stopping people ripping other people off, and well we all know that hell will freeze over before CCP figure out that with crime comes this ickle thing called punishment.
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC.	Posted - 2006.12.29 16:13:00 - [69] Here's my issues with the contract system: I can never see contracts issued to me. Period. The only way I can find my contracts are if the issuer sends me a link. Searching contracts is irrationally painful. There needs to be a lot more filtering options. The worst though,by far, is the regional limit. It's cool that I can look up contracts in any region, but I honestly don't see wtf the point is when I can't bid on them. I live out in 0.0. So, on a shopping trip to Empire, I bid on various contracts while I was there. I go back home to 0.0. I see I have been outbid on some of the contracts, and there isn't a damn thing I can do except run back to Empire, just to place a higher bid. Why the hell can I not at least raise a bid from another region? So, to have somewhat of a shot at winning auctions, I pretty much have to set up residency in whatever region the auction is located. This is RETARDED. If you are going to run them that way, why not go all the way and make it station specific? You can see auctions from anywhere, but you actually have to go to the specific station to bid on it. Sounds pretty stupid right? Well this is just a step or two above that. I suppose I can somewhat see a reason to not let people place bids on contracts in other regions, but at least let them raise bids on anything they have previously bid on, regardless of location. Please.
Caesium Amarr Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.29 16:31:00 - [70] View available contracts tab View -> Me Type -> All find contracts. yeah it's retarded you can't type in your name in the other tab. Caesium Lyrus Associates
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC.	Posted - 2006.12.29 16:36:00 - [71] Originally by: Caesium View available contracts tab View -> Me Type -> All find contracts. yeah it's retarded you can't type in your name in the other tab. Does not work. Here, I'll repeat for those that need it - I cannot see contracts issued to me. Period. Full stop. Do not pass go, do not collect your 200 isk. The ONLY way I can see contracts for me, is if someone links the contract to me.
Caesium Amarr Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.29 17:00:00 - [72] hmm that is particularly strange. Caesium Lyrus Associates
Hel O'Ween	Posted - 2006.12.29 17:02:00 - [73] Originally by: Phyrr Edited by: Phyrr on 28/12/2006 17:45:13 There's a search function, that sorta throws your "luck" idea out. I hated escrow, the way it lagged, the small font, the &^*&%ú$^%^^%$^%$^ crap at the top so people would get their stuff notcied. I love the new contract system and have found it far easier to use and it's more specific, with regions divided up it reduces lag. Escrow imo was cheating and tbh contracts don't replace escrow because it was exploited for another purpose than it's intention. ACK. Never liked Escrow. Sure, Contracts have their downsides, but given the fact that we currently have Contracts v1.0, I'm pretty sure it will evolve with upcoming patches and get better.

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