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Why enslave the Minmatar?

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Nachshon Caldari Tyrfing Securities	Posted - 2006.12.28 22:44:00 - [1] Everyone knows that the Amarr are trying to enslave the Minmatar. The Amarr claim that they are 'saving' the Minmatar. The Minmatar use this as a rallying cry. This is not a debate as to why the Amarr enslave at all. This is about why enslave the Minmatar? Why the focus on the Minmatar? This is a question that has never been answered properly. Why them? Surely the Gallente would be a better target for slaving, given their decadent society. Think of the impoverished masses, who would likely welcome slavery! Or perhaps the Caldari, who serve nothing higher than themselves or the State. I'll tell you why. The Amarr are weak. They know that they lack the strength to defeat the Gallente or Caldari, so they left them alone. They don't even have the strength to reconquer the Minmatar - if anything, they are losing. I hear about successful Matari operations to free slaves all the time. When was the last time the Amarr launched a major slave raid on the Republic? The proof can even be found in the Minmatar propaganda. They always talk of their brethren held in bondage in the Empire. I rarely hear them talk of how the Amarr take new slaves every day. Why? Surely the capture of new slaves would be a far greater rallying cry. Because the Minmatar are winning. The slavers dare not enter the Republic, lest they be destroyed. New slaves are not being taken, so the Minmatar use something else as their battlecry. The Amarr have numbers, but that is all. They are antiquated, rigid. They are obsolete. They are weak.
Thomas Maleficus Caldari Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.28 22:54:00 - [2] Here here! Nicely said. Pirates stole my signature.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.28 23:05:00 - [3] The Amarr enslaved the Minmatar because, when they found their home planet, the Amarr had vastly superior techology. If they had found us or the Gallente, they'd have tried the same thing. The Minmatar weren't even the first or last race to be enslaved, they're just the most numerous. What do you think they tried to do to the Jovians when they first met them? They sent a huge fleet to subjugate the Jovians, whom they were convinced could not withstand the might of the Imperial Navy. They learned otherwise at Vak'Atioth. If the Amarr ever found themselves on top of the heap, I have no doubt that they'd start working to conquer and enslave their neighbors just as they did in the past. Fortunately, that is unlikely to come to pass. The Amarr Empire has stagnated socially and technologically. Their greatest advances in military technolgy are bought or stolen from allies and enemies. Their ships, tactics and strategies are virtually unchanged from a century ago. Too many of their researchers are tied up trying to find new ways to maintain control of an increasingly restless slave population. The Amarr have even lost the moral high ground, if they ever had it. Their longstanding position that they only hold their slaves in bondage to bring them to salvation ring were revealed as ludicrous when the rest of the galaxy learned about Vitoc, Slave-dogs, the destruction of the Starkmanir tribe and a thousand other vicious cruelties and indignities that the Amarr heap on those that they have enslaved. The Amarr Empire is vast. At one time, it was the bloody jewel of the galaxy. That time has passed. It may be a very long time coming, but if the Amarr Empire does not give up its dreams of galactic domination and universal subjugation, it will die, and I believe that the first death throes will not be long in coming. _ Do Unto Others.
Angelice Minmatar British Space Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.28 23:08:00 - [4] Quote: We are daily confronted by the terryfing instability of all things human, yet we permit our religions to grow more rigid and controlled, more conforming and oppressive. What is this shadow across the highway of Divine Command? It is a warning that institutions endure, that symbols endure when their meaning is lost, that there is no summa of attainable knowledge. Religion must remain an outlet for people who say to themselves, "I am not the kind of person I want to be." It must never sink into an assemblage of the self-satisfied. This is the abyss from which the Amarr must crawl out. Angelice British Space Corps "To see the right and not to do it is cowardice." - Confucius
Spoon Thumb Crystaline Green Order of the Khanid Crown	Posted - 2006.12.29 01:33:00 - [5] I think you're argument is a little unsophisticated. The Amarrian social system has some inhernet strengths that may not be obvious at first. I think you'd do well to learn a bit more about them before openly criticising,l or you end up just sounding like another mouthpiece of the so called "Freedom Fighters" Spoon Thumb - I can scoop ice cream with my thumbs!
Lowanaera Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.29 01:47:00 - [6] Your understanding of the situation is quite flawed, and so too are the conclusions you draw from it. The Minmatar of the Republic are not our enemies, times do change and the Empire changes with it, regardless of the cries of our foes shouting "stagnation! weakness!" and desperately wishing it so. While, due to lacking the proper guidance of Amarrian sovereignty to place them on a proper path, the Republic is self-destructive, crude, and struggling for mere survival, it is not a threat in and of itself. Just as the Gallenteans with their myopic self-indulgence are a threat to none but themselves. Who we fight, and work to return to our control (as the Republic is obviously incapable of self-policing), are those terrorist entities which operate in outright illegal aggression against the Empire. Ushra'Khan are the most obvious example of this, but sadly far from the only. They are savages, striking blindly against that which they little understand but greatly fear, like children or feral animals. They must be caged or destroyed for their own good and for ours. Sadly, as long as the Republic continues in its current state, the ignorance and desperate circumstances that gives birth to this kind of filth will continue to propagate. The terrorists are quite adept at taking those who are wretched and starving within the empty system of the Republic and giving them hope by delivering us to hate and fear. "It's the Empire's fault we're like this! If you don't fight them they'll enslave us all! Your children are dying of starvation because of the Amarr, rise up against them!" I pity them, they almost don't know any better, so desperate they are to find any solid ground to latch on to, to give their suffering purpose. How much better off they would be within the safety of the Empire's grasp....
Nachshon Caldari Tyrfing Securities	Posted - 2006.12.29 02:14:00 - [7] I am impressed. I did not think that the Amarr would have a decent answer. But it seems they do. The Gallente may be decadent, or the Caldari selfish, but they are not actively waging war on the Empire. The Minmatar are. They enslave the Minmatar because the Minmatar are a threat. Simple as that. Now, I personally believe that the Minmatar are justified, but as I stated in the OP, this is not a debate as to the merits of slavery. However, I still believe that the Amarr are losing to the Minmatar. If this war were even, then for every Minmatar attack to free slaves, there should be an Amarr slaving operation. Yet such things never hit the news.
Lowanaera Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.29 02:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Nachshon Yet such things never hit the news. Whether the fact that it's never publicly aired can be taken as proof of our failure or of our overwhelming success is quite debatable. Take that as you will.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.29 13:20:00 - [9] Quote: Everyone knows that the Amarr are trying to enslave the Minmatar. The Amarr claim that they are 'saving' the Minmatar. The Minmatar use this as a rallying cry. This is not a debate as to why the Amarr enslave at all. This is about why enslave the Minmatar? We dont "try" we "do". And the reason is Enlightenment and our duty to God as prescribed in the Scriptures. ""Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good. Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land. The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood. But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God. Thus they were saved and became God's chosen one." ## The Scriptures. Book II. " We are the chosen and it is our duty. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Yaerav Aeyar Legio X Nefantarum	Posted - 2006.12.29 13:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Nachshon (...) Why the focus on the Minmatar? This is a question that has never been answered properly. Why them? (...) Has it ever occured to you that, perhaps, the Minmatar may in a way, have been chosen as well? --- Live to Serve Serve to Grow Grow to Ascend
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.12.29 14:39:00 - [11] The Amarr are weak. They are trying to enslave Matari because they think we are the weakest. Even from us they are getting a good kicking. Amarr should apply for Federation membership TBH, maybe they can learn how to be civilized human beings.
Letheeth Kayl	Posted - 2006.12.29 17:01:00 - [12] How soon so many forget the work of our late emperor! Why are there no slave raids? Because of the work of Emperor Heideran, and his desire for peace in the universe. The Empire focuses on producing a stable working class within it's own boundaries, instead of raiding other sovereignties. While the Para-militants gnash their teeth and violently clash with each other meaninglessly, the Empire is at an impasse as it awaits it's new Emperor(/ress). You will see just how weak the Empire is once it reconcentrates. Then again, your kind might concentrate the Empire's focus just by being such a deadly nuisance. Already a strong para-military system is in place. You only see and hear of our problems, because they are so public. What of Caldari's and the fractured state they are in? Last I checked, the mega corporations were scrambling to stop SuVee and friends from exploiting others (non caldari) to the point of hostilities, just as they try to keep Kaalkoita and the patriots from charging head first towards Gallente Prime. The Gallente, too, are ever on the verge of military coup and secession of outlying regions. Is there not a sizable portion of Intaki clamouring for seperation and autonomy? Others have already hinted at the Republic's myraid problems. Everyone picks on the Amarri because they see our weakness, and hope to focus their people's against us, so as to hide or reduce their own weaknesses. The world is ever on the verge of disaster, but people are strong, and life will continue. Has not our species lasted more than 20 thousand years? The Empire is stronger than you would dare imagine, you just have not seen our strengths. As for the Starkmanir tribe, that was the actions of ONE man. Do not blame billions for his actions, just as we do not blame the Matari for your actions.
Sythra Coratana Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2006.12.29 18:19:00 - [13] I always find it amazing how people can find conclusions using nothing more then mere heresay. It's dangerous to assume too much about a people. Moreso if you intend to make an enemy of them. However, I would prefer not to fight over something so trivial as a few words spoken in ignorance. Allow me to tell you why we have more Minmatar in our service then many others. The first and foremost reason may be that they were already on the path to salvation, through service, and we do not wish to let them slide back in the barbaric nature they held before we encountered them. Allowing them to be free completely would undo generations of teachings, forcing us to start again. ---------------- For God and Empire, gladly would I die a thousand times.
Nachshon Caldari Tyrfing Securities	Posted - 2006.12.29 19:20:00 - [14] To all Amarr who posted here: Thank you for answering my questions. It seems the Amarr have good reasons (from their perspective) for focusing on the Minmatar rather than the Caldari or Gallente: The Minmatar are threatening the Amarr The Minmatar are barbaric, worse than the Gallente or Caldari The Minmatar were already on the path to salvation
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.12.29 21:40:00 - [15] I have no doubt that the Amarr people have as much potential as any other, that potential has never manifested itself because they have not been allowed to evolve. Circumstances are forcing the Empire to evolve whether it wants to or not, the only question is what will the Empire evolve into.
Angelice Minmatar British Space Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Archbishop We dont "try" we "do". And the reason is Enlightenment and our duty to God as prescribed in the Scriptures. ""Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good. Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land. The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood. But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God. Thus they were saved and became God's chosen one." ## The Scriptures. Book II. " We are the chosen and it is our duty. Archbishop You know I can almost hear the dead, emotionless tone, like a robot repeating its programming... for debugging purposes? Angelice British Space Corps "To see the right and not to do it is cowardice." - Confucius
Merdaneth Amarr Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Nachshon However, I still believe that the Amarr are losing to the Minmatar. If this war were even, then for every Minmatar attack to free slaves, there should be an Amarr slaving operation. Yet such things never hit the news. Slaving raids are illegal under Amarr and Minmatar law. Attacking targets in Amarr space are illegal under Amarr and Minmatar law. The only thing you are noticing that the average Amarr is more law-abiding and civilized than the average Minmatar. Your observations have nothing to do with winning or losing, but with morality and immorality.
Nachshon Caldari Tyrfing Securities	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:11:00 - [18] I was unaware of this. I thank you again for correcting my facts.
Futher Bezluden Minmatar Red Dwarf Mining Corps	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Nachshon The Amarr have numbers, but that is all. They are antiquated, rigid. They are obsolete. They are weak. Whoa. Hold the horses. With the number of Amarrian women flying around in Republic space, no doubt reinforcing the rumors of Matari sexual prowess, how did the Amarr get numbers; is this another "Attack of the Clones"? I can understand the Amarr being bitter that so many friendly Amarrian women are doing "Missionary" work for us Matari, but to try to enslave more Matari? Yeah, get us closer to your wives and mistresses. After a month, they'll be begging for more. Enjoy those nice long trips away, we'll take care of the Missus. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Phoenix Wing	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:41:00 - [20] The Amarr are weak and lazy. That is the reason their entire Empire would crumble under its own weight without forcing the noble Matari to do their labor. --- We are Recruiting!
Ostos Marek	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:00:00 - [21] Edited by: Ostos Marek on 09/04/2007 21:00:34 Edited by: Ostos Marek on 09/04/2007 20:58:05 Why the focus on the Minmatar? Why not the Gallente or the Caldari? It is because the Minmatar were chosen as well, by God. Some were deemed worthy and came over willingly to following the true Lord of all. Look to the prohecies of Moourn Marek, as he foresaw the coming of the Amarr, the chance to enlighten our people in their glory and Gods Glory. The Ammatar, faithful minmatar converts to Amarr religion, are a shining beacon for the rest of the Minmatar to strive towards. The Amarr focus so much on the rest of the Minmatar because they see what faithful and devout people they can be (The Ammatars). Gallente are not a good "target for slaving" as they are so entrenched in their decedence that it would require an effort 10 times what it is taking for the Minmatar to help them see the error of their ways. It is not because the "Amarr are weak", which is most assuredly not so. It is because the Minmatar have the most potential. The Gallente are most assuredly the weakest of all the factions. Their rampant sex and drug abuse is a major blow to their "military skills", showing that most are not strong enough to resist their primal, heathen urges. One can not operate effectivley under the influence of anything but the righteousness of Gods word. Also the Minmatar are very visceral fighters, something the Gallente lack. As far as slavers not entering "Minmatar space", where are you getting your facts? Daily do the slavers of the Empire and the Mandate take new slaves from the Terra Iredente (I believe you refer to it as the Minmatar Republic). Moreso than what slaves are "reclaimed" by the Ushra'Khan and other terrorist organizations. Antiquated? Rigid? Obsolete? Weak? And why, because you've said so? I believe the empire has more territory throughout space. I don't see anyone trying to take it back, caldari, gallente, or minmatar combined? You'd think all 3 would unite and try to take on the Empire if it is such a bad thing? They won't, because they can't win. Glory to the Amarr, and the Ammatar. Faithful in His service. For God, Empire, and Mandate. Denique Ammatar! We are recruiting!
Aslann Gallente Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:15:00 - [22] Well with you likes of you 'protecting' the minmatar who else would they try to enslave? This is like shooting fish in a barrel. Sure they could come for us Gallente or even the Caldari, but that would more likely be more trouble then they are worth (tbh us Gallente fail at manual labor anyways).
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Caesar and Sons Salvaging	Posted - 2007.04.09 21:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Ostos Marek Gallente are not a good "target for slaving" as they are so entrenched in their decedence that it would require an effort 10 times what it is taking for the Minmatar to help them see the error of their ways. It is not because the "Amarr are weak", which is most assuredly not so. It is because the Minmatar have the most potential. The Gallente are most assuredly the weakest of all the factions. Their rampant sex and drug abuse is a major blow to their "military skills", showing that most are not strong enough to resist their primal, heathen urges. One can not operate effectivley under the influence of anything but the righteousness of Gods word. Also the Minmatar are very visceral fighters, something the Gallente lack. The Gallante are hardly as bloodthirsty as some of the creatures the Amarr spawn (Blood Raiders and Imperial slavers come to mind) but that hardly means they're slouches on the battlefield. The Gallante have developed some of the most impressive military hardware in the cluster, their ships posses firepower rivaled by none. Originally by: Ostos Marek As far as slavers not entering "Minmatar space", where are you getting your facts? Daily do the slavers of the Empire and the Mandate take new slaves from the Terra Iredente (I believe you refer to it as the Minmatar Republic). Moreso than what slaves are "reclaimed" by the Ushra'Khan and other terrorist organizations. So you admit the Amarr are violating Republic sovreignty? I was under the impression that the Imperial line was to say these slavers either didn't exist, or that they were criminals playing their trade against Imperial mandate. I'm sure your "peers" in the Empire will be along shortly to correct your rhetoric, best not to run afowl of the ones holding your leash eh? ----------------------------- "Our nation, may she always be right, but our nation right or wrong" - Unknown
Arnulf Ogunkoya Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.04.09 23:22:00 - [24] Sadly Ostos Marek is correct in claiming that Imperial forces raid Republic space for slaves. I have been sent to repulse enough of these raids. What disturbs me is that they are not being conducted by freelancers, but by ships of the regular Caldari and Amarrian navies. Now there are many factions within both nations so I am prepared to accept that the elements conducting these raids are renegade and acting without proper authority. Nevertheless they do occur. As do raids by the Blood Raiders (and I still can't understand why the Thukkers are friendly with them) and other pirate factions. Regards, State of the Art Bang-Bang.
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Caesar and Sons Salvaging	Posted - 2007.04.10 00:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Arnulf Ogunkoya Sadly Ostos Marek is correct in claiming that Imperial forces raid Republic space for slaves. I have been sent to repulse enough of these raids. What disturbs me is that they are not being conducted by freelancers, but by ships of the regular Caldari and Amarrian navies. Now there are many factions within both nations so I am prepared to accept that the elements conducting these raids are renegade and acting without proper authority. Nevertheless they do occur. As do raids by the Blood Raiders (and I still can't understand why the Thukkers are friendly with them) and other pirate factions. Indeed, and like any decent Republican pod-pilot I've killed my fair share; but I'm shocked and amazed that someone from the Amarrian camp is actually being honest about the nature of these incursions. Usually their MO is to either: 1. Deny the Republic exists 2. Deny the raids themselves occour 3. Deny the rights of the raids' victims to not be scooped up and sold like livestock 4. Deny the perpetrator's affiliation with the Caldari/Amarrian governments Ostos has borken the mold and spoke frankly and honestly about the nature of these incursions. While I despise everything he stands for I aplaud him for being the first in his camp to admit what the rest of us have known for decades. While I have no doubt that sooner or later his Amarrian pupeteers will either correct him here directly, or make him change his statement; for a fleeting moment Ostos demonstrated something I thought was totally absent from the Amarrian camp: honesty. ----------------------------- "Our nation, may she always be right, but our nation right or wrong" - Unknown
Rudina Gallente The Hirogens	Posted - 2007.04.10 10:33:00 - [26] If you read some of the historical texts, the reason for enslaving Minmatar was simply because the Amarr wanted their technology, and had the military might to take it. At the time the Minmatar had a flourishing empire that exceeded all the other empires. The Amarr was stagnate and needed advancement for their universe conquest. The Minmatar provided the technology and the skills through enslavement. The Gallante and Caldari "discovered" jumpgate operation and jumpdrive before the Amarr and started to exceed Amarr colonisation. The Amarr needed an edge to regain superiority and the Minmatar provided it. This is still partly true today, and part of the reason Amarr still enslave Minmatar. The Minmatar has proven themselves capable engineers and fighters, and as such is a threat to the other empires. Keeping them enslaved prevents them from achieving beyond the other races. On a side note: Minmatar is not the only enslaved race. They are just the most. It is known that there are Caldari and Gallentean slaves. This information is right here on Galnet. I am sure you can find it.
Ostos Marek	Posted - 2007.04.10 13:22:00 - [27] Edited by: Ostos Marek on 10/04/2007 13:19:37 Originally by: Rudina If you read some of the historical texts, the reason for enslaving Minmatar was simply because the Amarr wanted their technology, and had the military might to take it. At the time the Minmatar had a flourishing empire that exceeded all the other empires. The Amarr was stagnate and needed advancement for their universe conquest. The Minmatar provided the technology and the skills through enslavement. The Gallante and Caldari "discovered" jumpgate operation and jumpdrive before the Amarr and started to exceed Amarr colonisation. The Amarr needed an edge to regain superiority and the Minmatar provided it. This is still partly true today, and part of the reason Amarr still enslave Minmatar. The Minmatar has proven themselves capable engineers and fighters, and as such is a threat to the other empires. Keeping them enslaved prevents them from achieving beyond the other races. On a side note: Minmatar is not the only enslaved race. They are just the most. It is known that there are Caldari and Gallentean slaves. This information is right here on Galnet. I am sure you can find it. Actually you are quite wrong. The Amarr were much more superior in their technology, which definatley aided in the conquering initially of the Minmatar people (aside from the blessed help of the Ammatar). Where are you getting your history from? The only reason the Minmatar eventually pushed back on the Amarr was due to the fact that the Empire was entrenched in a war with the Jove. Originally by: Agustus Caesar Originally by: Arnulf Ogunkoya Sadly Ostos Marek is correct in claiming that Imperial forces raid Republic space for slaves. I have been sent to repulse enough of these raids. What disturbs me is that they are not being conducted by freelancers, but by ships of the regular Caldari and Amarrian navies. Now there are many factions within both nations so I am prepared to accept that the elements conducting these raids are renegade and acting without proper authority. Nevertheless they do occur. As do raids by the Blood Raiders (and I still can't understand why the Thukkers are friendly with them) and other pirate factions. Indeed, and like any decent Republican pod-pilot I've killed my fair share; but I'm shocked and amazed that someone from the Amarrian camp is actually being honest about the nature of these incursions. Usually their MO is to either: 1. Deny the Republic exists 2. Deny the raids themselves occour 3. Deny the rights of the raids' victims to not be scooped up and sold like livestock 4. Deny the perpetrator's affiliation with the Caldari/Amarrian governments Ostos has borken the mold and spoke frankly and honestly about the nature of these incursions. While I despise everything he stands for I aplaud him for being the first in his camp to admit what the rest of us have known for decades. While I have no doubt that sooner or later his Amarrian pupeteers will either correct him here directly, or make him change his statement; for a fleeting moment Ostos demonstrated something I thought was totally absent from the Amarrian camp: honesty. You have had my respect Augustus for a while now, depsite our conflicting views. Respect is still given. We all know that raids do take place, but from the private corporations, not directly from either side. And by raids I mean both slaver raids and terrorist raids(trying to free slaves). Since these are private corporations/groups, they do not infringe upon the agreements of the Empires. With that said, I feel that soon an age is coming when the boundaries set currently, will come crashing down. Turmoil, despair, death, grief, pain; these will be what the universe will be made of... Long has hatred seeded the souls of man, and it shall drive humanity into the fire. What ends as a result of the flame will be the tempered spirits of man, forged pure by the purging heat of war. We are recruiting!
Agustus Caesar Minmatar Caesar and Sons Salvaging	Posted - 2007.04.10 14:03:00 - [28] Edited by: Agustus Caesar on 10/04/2007 14:00:51 Originally by: Ostos Marek Actually you are quite wrong. The Amarr were much more superior in their technology, which definatley aided in the conquering initially of the Minmatar people (aside from the blessed help of the Ammatar). Where are you getting your history from? The only reason the Minmatar eventually pushed back on the Amarr was due to the fact that the Empire was entrenched in a war with the Jove. I'm afraid Ostos is quite right here, the primary (and in my opinion the only reason) the Ammar were able to conquer Pator is because at the time they had vastly superior technology, granted our talents as engineers and soldiers didn't come fully to bear untill the revolution, but at the time of the invasion the Amarr possessed superior technology. As of now we are on an even technological footing with the Amarr, but due to our greatly superior rate of scientific progress it won't be long untill it is we who hold the technological superiority card. Originally by: Agustus Caesar Indeed, and like any decent Republican pod-pilot I've killed my fair share; but I'm shocked and amazed that someone from the Amarrian camp is actually being honest about the nature of these incursions. Usually their MO is to either: 1. Deny the Republic exists 2. Deny the raids themselves occour 3. Deny the rights of the raids' victims to not be scooped up and sold like livestock 4. Deny the perpetrator's affiliation with the Caldari/Amarrian governments Ostos has borken the mold and spoke frankly and honestly about the nature of these incursions. While I despise everything he stands for I aplaud him for being the first in his camp to admit what the rest of us have known for decades. While I have no doubt that sooner or later his Amarrian pupeteers will either correct him here directly, or make him change his statement; for a fleeting moment Ostos demonstrated something I thought was totally absent from the Amarrian camp: honesty. Originally by: Ostos Marek You have had my respect Augustus for a while now, depsite our conflicting views. Respect is still given. We all know that raids do take place, but from the private corporations, not directly from either side. And by raids I mean both slaver raids and terrorist raids(trying to free slaves). Since these are private corporations/groups, they do not infringe upon the agreements of the Empires. sigh seems your back peddling. While I'll grant you that lone criminal groups make up their fair share of slave raids, a staggering number are perpetrated by seemingly official ships of the Amarrian/Caldari navies meaning either: A. These ships are using hacked database registries, which cause their ships to show up as official ships of the Caldari/Amarrian navies, the frequency of which this occurs is almost as frightening as.... B. These ships were stolen from Imperial and State naval ship yards, due to the sheer quantity and size of these ships that's close to being scarrier than..... C. These ships follow rogue commanders, again a frightening prospect but not nearly as shocking as.... D. These ships are operating with the full knowledge and consent of their superiors and are conducting sanctioned operations (ie: slaving, recon, espionage) in another nation's sovreign territory, thus making those who sent them there guilty of multiple breaches of the Yulai treaty. Pick which one makes you sleep best at night. ----------------------------- "Our nation, may she always be right, but our nation right or wrong" - Unknown
Rudina Gallente The Hirogens	Posted - 2007.04.10 14:14:00 - [29] I think you may misinterpret what I said above. Having the military strength to take and subjugate is obviously dependent on reasonable equal or above levels of military technology, and military manpower. Never said the Amarr was technologically less advanced. Known fact the Amarr discovered jump gate technology first. However that does not mean that the Minmatar had nothing the Amarr wanted or needed. In every instance of slavery there is a valid reason for enslaving people, beyond what religion justifies.
3ll3 Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.04.10 15:19:00 - [30] A question how would it be so right for Amarrian people to claim slavery was okay if the roles had been reversed? Aserouse question that has repeatedly entered my mind Verus Amare Vinceres Omnis

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