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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 15:25:41 -
[1] - Quote
What bonus is outpost construction V going to give people if I is all you need to build an XL citadel? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 15:33:11 -
[2] - Quote
not that i'm complaining as i lounge upon a stack of trillions of isk but don't you think that 700b might be a bit expensive for the bpo |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 15:43:16 -
[3] - Quote
Are those research/copy times in minutes or in seconds? Can't seem to find anything online to clarify those units. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 16:03:30 -
[4] - Quote
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:I like these new Citadels, but one thing kinda bothers me. Why do you have three different sizes? What you are part of a small group and you build a Medium Citadel, but as time goes on your group grows. Now you need a bigger Citadel. OK, but that means either building it someplace new, or having to tear down the Medium to make room. That is kinda lame.
Why can't there just be one Citadel that you can just keep upgrading over? Sure keep the cost investment the same, but there would no longer be the annoyance to move all assets out of the structure just to turn around and replace it with the next level up. Maybe that is part of the plan and I missed it in the blog? blow up the old one and use asset safety to automove |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 16:10:40 -
[5] - Quote
So this is linked in the devblog:
CSM Citadel FAQ GÇô A detailed FAQ covering all important aspects of the new structures. Compiled by the CSM in conjunction with CCP. Available in English only. - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mEbMx9xUXje3KH4AppvcjSSoALUVtVEaK6ZZ-zy2Lrs/edit?pli=1
Yet in this, there's such things as:
Quote:How may I attack someone's Citadel? Medium, Large and X-Large structures will use a version of the Sovereignty capture mechanic, which means they will only be attacked through the use of the Entosis module.
What information in here is reliable and what is not? Clearly it's not up to date. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 16:48:50 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:Are those research/copy times in minutes or in seconds? Can't seem to find anything online to clarify those units. Seconds. If those were in minutes you would be waiting 1805 days to manufacture a X-L Citadel . As Aryth pointed out this basically means that when you buy a 700b bpo, you make copies every 5 days (before bonuses). That means a single BPO will effectively flood the market with copies. It means that anyone buying a bpo will have more copies than they can possibly use, which they'll sell in jita...driving down the cost of a bpc to miniscule prices on your 700b bpo. It means it's a really dumb purchase and it's hard to even justify as a means to ensure you always have the ability to build an XL, or to make a profit, or really any reason. Its especially odd how much less time it is to copy these things than a titan bpo, which requires copies to be usable, and which costs 1/10th of what this costs.
It puts these bpos in a really awkward spot for a 700b investment that just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. You don't get exclusivity, you don't have any hope of a profit, I'm not sure why anyone would buy one instead of waiting around for someone to not do the math. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1172
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 16:53:47 -
[7] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote: This is for larges specifically which is only important for the larger low class groups that have dozens of capitals needing to be stored. Mediums will be able to be brought in with transports, so an attacking group can just use medium citadels.
If you've been building "dozens" of capitals you can build one more. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1174
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 17:08:40 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: We can always tweak copy times around, those numbers aren't final, just a first draft. Which number would you have in mind?
Copy time or cost probably should be changed - I think copy time is the big outlier here. You have some idea of how many of these structures you expect will exist but my guess is a few dozen at most in the first year. You shouldn't be able to make many more bpcs than structures intended to be deployed. You need a bpc market of course - not every null alliance can be expected to put up 700b to get their foot in the door - but you've got to have it so the bpcs any one bpo can produce are some fraction of expected demand. With a base build time of 30 days, I'd set copy time to at least 30 days and probably much more - unlike supercapitals, there is no need for you to copy this bpo to produce with it safely. You can produce in-station off the bpo itself so copy time can be a freebie for when the bpo is not in use and can be longer than the production time, even several multiples of it without it being a big problem for the market.
The bpo cost of these is 10x what a titan bpo costs, the bpc copy time is ~1/6th of a titan bpo copy time, and most titan bpcs are pretty cheap. Leviathans are the only one where the bpo isn't glutted but even those run only 1-2b each.
I'd probably make it a several month base copy time so that you get people buying the bpos initially so they can get a leg up on deploying them and use of the bpo is tilted more towards manufacturing than copying. At a minimum producing them and copying them should be roughly the same time or at a minimum at the ratio of t2 bpos. Copying in 1/6th of the time to build it seems way, way off. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1174
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 17:09:57 -
[9] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote: And if you want to look at cost, consider that currently, you can store your capitals at a tower with an XL SMA for less then a billion ISK. With these changes, you need to invest in a 7+ billion isk structure, and then another 2 billion isk to build the freighter whose only job is to drop off the citadel. I could have used that isk to build more capitals!
on the other hand, your large citidel is like a million times more useful than your pos with weak-ass weapons, easy theft, and the like which is why you're desperate to deploy one |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1175
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 17:23:38 -
[10] - Quote
Azahar Ortenegro wrote:Since this devblog, nothing has been said about the other types of structures except for the Market and Office structures, merged and renamed Citadels in this devblog. Basic functionalities provided by Small and Medium POSes will be moved to citadels with: 1/ A loss in size choice. 2/ A BPO 12 to 48 times more expensive than it currently is. Saying i'm shitposting isn't going to make my posts less relevant. they're not relevant
Quote: Please note the Citadel Hulls and their associated blueprints are the most expensive structure set due to the importance regarding asset safety and home defense. Other structures will vary in price based on their role and intended persistence. |
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1180
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Posted - 2015.10.26 18:39:12 -
[11] - Quote
Grorious Reader wrote:I'd just like to point out that "X will be so expensive that only a handful will be built by the biggest alliances" is a demonstrably horrible design philosophy. I'm pretty sure CCP Fozzie previously stated this fact in regard to titans and super caps. Now CCP is doing it again with XL Citadels. I predict Deklein will be filled to the brim with XL citadels within a year. Billions of isk is not cost prohibitive when you have individual players toting around trillions. I'm not seeing the benefit to dozens of these in the same region versus other things we could do with that isk. They're massive, cool, and have great defenses but each new one has a declining marginal utility in a region. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1181
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 18:58:56 -
[12] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:Can you provide any information about how/if existing fuel blocks can be converted to structure fuel blocks? Or do we have to reprocess them to take a material loss(reprocessing efficiency)? pos won't be deleted for a good long while, year+ minimum
no reason to sort this out now but the best solution would be market buy orders or just converting them into their base constituent parts |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1186
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Posted - 2015.10.28 13:19:43 -
[13] - Quote
Azahar Ortenegro wrote:And what about replacing Small and Medium POSes in-space storage and fitting abilities? mobile depot |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1187
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 19:45:58 -
[14] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:I've been trying to figure out a reason to use a M Citadel, rather than a L or XL - and, save the minor savings in cost, I don't see much of any reason to ever do so, particularly in low or null space.
Perhaps a M Citadel should have some advantage over the L and XL, at least, in low or null - such as the ability to fit a cloaking device (that would be fun), or simply be immune to directional scan (ie. needs to be found using combat probes)? how on earth is "is 8.4b cheaper before rigs/mods" not a huge advantage when you're putting up a personal citadel for ratting or mining or the like |
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