|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 11:23:59 -
[1] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
What he's saying is that he can make that 100 mill an hour running anoms in null sec using only one Rattlesnake.
It's still good that high-sec does have a income stream. The cons are is that it requires multi-chars and not completely consistent unlike null sec that provides a constant isk faucet running anoms while making 100 mill isk an hour using only one char.
If you blitz highsec level 3 missions using a t2 fitted mach you can hit 80-90 mil an hour and you can do this all day every day without interruptions like you get in null. The best income right now via shooting comes from highsec, the only reason anoms are done is because you can run them afk although afk income will take a large hit when carriers lose their ability to use drones next year.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 13:13:33 -
[2] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
And in Null you and your alts can run anoms semi-afk making 100mil per hour of direct isk never having to deal with markets, LP conversions, building, hauling and you always know when someone comes into local they are there to kill you, instead of the anonymity of the masses that comes with guessing who the gank alt is in high sec.
So tell me again what they are doing to nerf Rattlesnakes?
To hit that income in null requires a ratting carrier or pimp vindicator and no interruption. Converting LP takes no time at all, building is automatic and takes all of 5 minutes to set up, hauling also takes very little time once a week or even once a month and selling can be done remotely while you run missions. Chances of being ganked in highsec are next to nill unless you officer fit.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 18:30:43 -
[3] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Quite a few errors there. I thought Goons prided themselves on accuracy. First off, while converting of LP does indeed not take any time it still needs to be shipped to the market. I myself am happy to take a hit to my isk/h and have other people do the hauling but that is something to take into account. Hauling ships regularly get ganked between the various mission hubs, I tend to see multiple wrecks on gates any time I go off to Amarr or Jita, dodged a few attempts myself as well. Remember, in HS you're not protected, you're avenged. In NS you're protected. Big difference
I use a speed fitted blockade runner, warps like an intercepter and its impossible to catch in highsec if flown correctly.
Anize Oramara wrote: If you look at the best system to do these kinds of things, Lanngisi for example, it is not in the same region as either of the two biggest trade hubs (Amarr and Jita) so no, you can't do selling remotely either.
Use an alt to sell, either on the same account or alt account. Doesn't even take 5 minutes to update sell orders.
Anize Oramara wrote: Ganking of faction and dedspace fit mission boats is a regular occurrence, as in daily. No really check the killboards. Don't need officer fit ships to become a gank target.
You dont need those mods, the only bling you ever need are faction damage mods and even those are optional. Bling is simply not needed and t2 mission running ships with a smattering of faction damage mods are simply not going to be a viable target. You are more likely to die by falling asleep running the mission than being ganked.
Anize Oramara wrote: Nullsec income is almost exclusively raw isk while Lv4 ission blitzing is almost no raw isk once you convert the LP/isk into faction modules. This is ok though because of the somewhat more difficult moving of stuff from null to high. It does make it a dangerous proposition to just flat out increase isk rewards in null.
To get the very best income you have to use the ESS, which rewards you partly in LP and unlike highsec it can be raided/blown up.
Anize Oramara wrote: You also haven't addressed the issue that to reach the 200mill+ you're looking at 6-8bill in initial capital while in null you're only looking at a 2bill to 2.5bill ratting carrier for 100mill was it? just add more alts, that's what makes null different and that's ok too.
While I appreciate the fine art of Goon misdirection and misinformation and propaganda, all of the arguments have been covered dozens of times and is not what this thread is about.
To get the anoms requires holding sov and deploying infrastructure which are a lot more expensive plus you have to defend it, something highsec doesn't need to worry about. When you start defending your mission running system with 60 billion isk worth of assets then you can start comparing prices.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 18:43:38 -
[4] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: With two characters in T2 Rattles you can easily hit 80-100mil isk per hour each in Null running Anoms. That initial investment is well under that to run Burners in efficiency and a fraction of the fit needed to run Incursions well. You will also make as much as both of those activities.
If you are earning the same then clearly burners and level 4s are the better option because you get concord protection while running them and no interruptions or competition.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Burners require you to be at the mercy of the LP market and Jita market. It requires a little more critical thinking and effort. Null sec gives direct wallet ticks.
I have a tool that tells me instantly what to spend my LP on.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Incursions end every few days and often there is a period where there are none to run. Also if you get unlucky with your contests you end up simply fueling some other guys numbers instead of your own. It also requires you to deal with LP and markets.
Yet incursion income dwarfs the total mission payouts despite the fact that only a fraction of people run incursions compared to missions.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: So, spin it anyway you want. You have the ability to make easier, less effort isk in relative safety of your intel channels and blue donut pacts with lesser investment and the occasional big score pay day. But you don't want to hear that, so I am talking to a rock.
When was the last time you fought a trillion isk war against someone else to control your highsec missions?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 19:08:10 -
[5] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: If you use the same account then you can't update sell orders and mission at the same time. If you use an alt then your isk/h is halved whereas if you use an alt in null your isk is doubled. You're changing from what you originally said, moving the goalposts.
It takes 5 minutes to log out your main/alt, log on a market alt, change prices, log out and back onto the main.
Anize Oramara wrote: I agree completely, you don't need those mods, however that's not the point now is it? Ships that are NOT officer fit are ganked daily in just the system I mission from. There are dozens of other mission hubs and the surrounding systems. You're changing from what you originally said, moving the goalposts.
I said t2 ships dont get gabnked, said again t2 ships dont get ganked and I'll tell you again now, t2 ships wont get ganked. Dont put pointless bling on your ship and it will live forever.
Anize Oramara wrote: I am well aware of the ESS and exactly how it functions, used it for months when I was in null. The LP is gives is a small amount and your income isn't impacted by much even if you decide to not use it. In fact your income is eventually increased if you use it long enough over what you were making before the ESS iirc. The majority of your income however is still in raw isk.
100 mil in LP is the same as 100 mil in isk. Infact the LP system is far better than being pain in raw isk as it adapts to inflation.
Anize Oramara wrote: You're in an organized alliance with thousands of members with Tax, Moon goo, supers and all kinds of other toys that help support that infrastructure. I get it, null is different to HS, that's what I've been saying. Part of that is that it's easier to ramp up income to well over what is possible in HS. And that's FINE because you need to be able to do that. I'm not advocating a nerf to null so untwist those undies.
It actually isn't possible to beat highsec for income. Even using a carrier you are earning only a little more from anoms than is possible from level 3 missions in highsec. Nullsec hasn't had the best income for 5 years now.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 19:31:21 -
[6] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:[ Concord is not protection, it's punishment. if someone wants to gank you concord will not stop them. Come on, this is basic Eve stuff.
They protect in the same way nukes do.
Anize Oramara wrote: What, you mean as a solo player? Come on, you're not even comparing two different types of food here never mind apples to apples.
Feel free to lump in as many highsec bears as you wish, Simple fact hre is this so called risk free null income comes on the back of not only hundreds of billions of isk worth of infrastructure but also spending trillions in ship replacements. Highsec set up and running costs are nothing in comparison.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 19:32:35 -
[7] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Firstly, nice seeing you the other night in Wicked Creek Baltec. I took a potshot at your Mega hoping to be on your kill mail, then you up and didn't die. Next time Baltec, next time...
Got it out in 20% shields but died 7 jumps out to a random gang
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 21:43:59 -
[8] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:As an aside, I should note that there's a way to break 600m+ ISK/hour if you cherry-pick a specific series of L4 missions. The downside is that you will absolutely, positively destroy opposing Empire standings in the process - as well as severely damage your own declining mission after mission to get it. I'm referring of course to the 'Enemies Abound' mission series for Caldari (and Empire equivalents). Mission rewards and salvage alone typically exceed 170m ISK per run, so with LP you're easily over 200m per character. With 3 characters you can easily blitz all three sets in roughly an hour. 600m+ ISK. Voila.
However, this should be considered a burst in income - and isn't sustainable unless you regularly pray at the Altar of Bob (you could literally get two 'Enemies' back-to-back or decline 50 missions and not get a single one...). You will also need at least one Golem to pull this off (ideally 2 or 3), if only for the salvaging/cargo capabilities.
If you want staggering income you need to try bomber blitzing FW level 4 missions.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16903
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 22:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: I've heard it can be insanely lucrative. But how staggering are we talking about?
Off hand I think its 1mil+ LP for 3 hours work in a hound. I have seen claims of 600 mil/hr a few times by people but I honestly haven't tried to do that myself.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16922
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 10:26:29 -
[10] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
Carriers would still be able to use drones with even better bonuses at the expense of losing their logi capabilities last I heard.....unless CCP changed their minds again from that last blog.
Carriers are losing drones and fighters need to be manually used, the age of AFK carriers is at an end. You also cant refit with a weapons timer or use capital reps without the new dedicated logi capitals without large drawbacks so current defensive tactics are also taking a large hit. Ratting carriers can still work but you will need new fits, tactics and you cant be afk in them.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16922
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 13:45:25 -
[11] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: Ratting Dreadnoughts?
Possible, I'm more interested in nano dreads
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Oh god forbid you have to actually be at your computer while you get the largest wallet ticks available in the game.
This is already the case.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16923
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 18:01:30 -
[12] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Possible, I'm more interested in nano dreads OK, you perked my interest. Any details you'd care to share?
I have heard numbers such as 500m/s with the capital MWD which if I am correct means I should be able to get a dread up fast enough to keep up with AB cruiser fleets. Challenge is going to be cap usage as I don't have any info on the new capital cap mods.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16923
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 18:30:09 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:I have heard numbers such as 500m/s with the capital MWD which if I am correct means I should be able to get a dread up fast enough to keep up with AB cruiser fleets. Challenge is going to be cap usage as I don't have any info on the new capital cap mods. Will that be with or without Hyperspacial rigs?
I already have that part sorted
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17021
|
Posted - 2015.11.22 02:42:01 -
[14] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Well, this thread topic didn't take long to derail into a 'nerf high sec / buff null sec' thread, thanks to a few posters who just had to ride that train here.
Just the usual Meta-game tactic. Gotta give props though, placing a bug in CCP's ear at Eve Player Events is another aspect that definitely helps, especially when it's done by a few different players.
Unbelievable, the lengths some players will go to.......
DMC
The only meta gaming going on here if from yourself, we have the hard numbers that show PVE is in a mess when looking at the way risk and effort is rewarded all across EVE and its not as black and white as you might assume.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17040
|
Posted - 2015.11.23 22:22:21 -
[15] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:
- There is no way around the 1y limit. I checked, double checked and then triple checked.
Best check again. You can be operating a level 3 blitz mach in a month and earning more than an afktar in null.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17040
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 06:07:38 -
[16] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:
- There is no way around the 1y limit. I checked, double checked and then triple checked.
Best check again. You can be operating a level 3 blitz mach in a month and earning more than an afktar in null. No no you can't And because I know you know better I am going to just have to call you a liar. In fact you can belt rat at a higher clip than a lvl 3 blitzer AND you don't have to ever deal with LP.
Yes, you can. All you need is the ability to fly the mach, fit large autos, fit warp speed rigs, and operate a medium armour rep. People have been running level 4 missions in ravens at one month old for a decade now.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17040
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 08:10:42 -
[17] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:
- There is no way around the 1y limit. I checked, double checked and then triple checked.
Best check again. You can be operating a level 3 blitz mach in a month and earning more than an afktar in null. No, no you can't. We tried it and I tested it in a fully skilled warp speed fit Tengu. I wanted to get over 100mill/h but I couldn't, no one could. And what I meant with the 1y limit (Because again, you seem to misunderstand or twist my words) is to blitz burners, to get over 200mill/h.
Found your problem.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17041
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 09:52:04 -
[18] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:
Tengu has better speed, range, application and is in general better at blizing lv3 missions than a mach. and Yet a fullt skilled 13au/s Tengu can't reach 100mill/h but you want a 1month old Machariel to do it? BAHAHAHAHA.
Did I say 100 mil?
Anize Oramara wrote: Here is an interesting way to look at it however. A near fully skilled rattlesnake does close to 1500 dps, Typhoon Fleet should get decently close to it and so should some of the faction blaster boats. Even a Max skilled Mach should get 1400. In null that should get you very close to 100mill/h but lets go with 75mill/h per character. This thread has Arthur use 3 faction battleships with ascendencies to run Lv4 missions and he's making at most 150mill/h. With those 3 ships he should be breaking 225mill/h in null easily, consistently and infinitely. And best part is you can just add more characters. Heck put them in different systems so when one gets camped you can continue to rat somewhere else.
He isn't blitzing the sites.
Anize Oramara wrote:
In my case I realistically can't run more than one character doing what I do, it's just not feasible to run at that speed without making mistakes.
Think again
Anize Oramara wrote: You're comparing Hyper optimized 8 billion isk invested operations (Focussed on ONE character. Every character you add is another 8bill) to a single afktar in null (That shares the huge investment with a 40k user alliance and additional alts is the cost of a single ship). At the very least what I'm doing is worth a fully set up deathstar pos in a fully upgraded system and a ratting carrier. Start there and see what's easier to expand, what gives the most return the fastest and what has the higher cap; the null operation by adding alts or the Hi-sec operation by adding alts?
But you know all this, or you should...
Best income by far is incursions if you are running multiple alts. if you only have the one account then running FW missions in a bomber. Highsec level 3s in a mach worth less than a billion (including the hull) will come close to matching carrier income in null anoms, level 4s in highsec will beat it.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17041
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 14:06:15 -
[19] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:baltec1 wrote: Best income by far is incursions if you are running multiple alts. if you only have the one account then running FW missions in a bomber. Highsec level 3s in a mach worth less than a billion (including the hull) will come close to matching carrier income in null anoms, level 4s in highsec will beat it.
This is the only thing worth replying to. No one has been able to post numbers that prove what you're saying (and plenty have tried), only numbers that refute what you're saying. I've not been able to aither, running for SOE with the best isk/lp with a far better setup than 1 month old mach. And yes, as soon as you say carrier income you're talking about 100mill/h + and yet: Try not to contradict yourself in the same post.
You seem to have a big problem with context and following conversations.
Yes you can hit 84-90 mil/hr using a blitz mach in level 3s. It has been tested and verified several times including in the pirate battleship rebalance thread.
No a month old pilot cant do that but I never said they could. I said a month old mach pilot blitzing level 3 missions in highsec will beat an afktar running null anoms.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17041
|
Posted - 2015.11.24 17:14:27 -
[20] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: And I've tested it, with my alt, this month and this is not true. Can't even make that in lv4s with my alt because I can't skip as many missions since he cant run burners yet so I HAVE to grind through a angel extrav or a blockade or some of the worse missions like buzzkil, silence the informant, the score, saboteurs, mordus, etc etc etc. every now and then.
No, you haven't tested it. If you had you would know just how silly easy it is to do. The blockade for example is super easy.
Shoot the stasis tower, pop destroyer trigger, kill the singleton in the three waves, kill Tribunus, warp out.
Anize Oramara wrote: I blitzed lv4s with the mach before starting on burners, I wish I could find the posts I made before I started running burners but I DO have isk per minute numbers for my lv4 missions. This includes travel time to and from the station. A quick calc shows on average I'd be maxing out at 120-150mill per hour or between 2 to 3 mill/minute for most blitz type missions with a nearly maxed out Mach. This is T2 guns, BS5 and a head full of billions of isk worth of implants. 2 Machariels might be able to match that in null, 3 will definitely out pace it. Income Potential.
You just made my point for me, in order to beat highsec income you have to roll multiple alts.
Anize Oramara wrote:
For that matter if you guys are so GRR Missionrunners why aren't you guys ganking the heck out of all the blingy ships? See this is exactly what I'm saying, can't be arsed to lift a finger to fix a perceived problem, just whine whine whine to CCP to fix it when you can do something about your problem yourself. I though that's what Eve was about, I thought that was what the nullsec corps were about, kicking over other people's sandcastles. I saw a problem; almost no one was Doing It Right(tm) and I dang well am trying to fix it and all you two can do is whine and moan about how unfair it all is.
You don't fix game imbalances by tossing away billions of isk in useless ganking. You fix the problem.
Anize Oramara wrote:That, that right there is what you're reduced to doing, and it's not even accurate. How am I benefiting by writing a public guide and spreading it wherever I can? *Disappoint*
You are benefitting from an income far higher than you should for the level of risk, effort and investment you put in.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17041
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 00:26:44 -
[21] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Some quotes from a different place where I'm sharing my guide that might be applicable. Quote:It works in NPC null too btw; I've been messing around with it for a small while. If you think 0.5 sec burner missions give out tons of LP, take a look at 0.0 sec burner missions. Also, you don't have to copy-paste anti-burner fits blindly. The "Unified Daredevil" with 3 armor-repair rigs runs every single "Anomic Agent" mission perfectly well. It has the same completion time for the Daredevil Burner as the Hawk, and is only ~45 seconds slower than the Wolf against the Cruor. It's cool to see that someone independently came up with almost the exact same Polarized Garmur blitzing fit as me though. and Quote:Depends on the area, some places are more camped than others. L4 missions are usually 1 jump maximum with the better paying mission usually in the same system. Once you get high enough standings you can decline essentially any mission you want. and Quote:Look at PFP-GU for an example. I made my first 1bil blitzing missions there with a 6000 isk:LP ratio (back in 2013). Two L4 security agents and it's literally empty 22/7. In the ~3 months I spent there I only ran into two gate-camps, and only lost 1 ship (was trying to MJD-kite an Arazu). There's better examples of course, but that's a decent-enough one.
there are no mission agents in the vest bulk of null.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17041
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 00:43:50 -
[22] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
There are no lvl 4 security agents in the vast bulk of High-Sec either... and 97% of the agents in High-Sec don't pay out enough in the right kind of LP to bust what you can make mining in Null.
Most LP is worthless, most mission agents in High-Sec are worthless. There are very few worthless agents in Null.
By the way, there are well over 200 Level 4 Security agents in Null sec. So you are pretty much wrong anyways.
Feel free to tell us where the level 4 agents are located in dek
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17041
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 08:57:03 -
[23] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote:
Once again, not understanding.
Does all of pve need rebalancing? Is all of eve broken except null pvp? No. What has been said is that null income would exceed hisec income, except for having to avoid all the other people in null. Maybe pvp is broken, maybe it needs to be made more difficult to catch people in null (Jenn before you misunderstand again, I don't actually think that, just making a point).
The problem is not that people can make lots of isk in hisec in a very extreme set of circumstances. The problem is that you can't effectively do it where you have chosen to live because of the people you have chosen to live with. It's like going to McDonald's and complaining that they don't use the colonels secret recipe.
No the problem is very much that PVE in all areas of space aside from WH is a mess. Over the years CCP have nerfed, buffed and added pve content without any thought of the overall picture which has resulted in a rather large game imbalance. Ratting in null sovs anoms using a subcap under the very best of circumstances will net you around the same as a mach blitzing level 3 missions in highsec. Greed is blinding people to the problems.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 09:32:05 -
[24] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
So if CCP nerfs incursions payout and make hi-sec missions unblitzable would you be satisfied??
No as there are a lot more issues than that, Anoms for example are deeply flawed and also cause issues for eve. They are very poor at hosting large populations, they inject too much raw isk, they devalue over the years due to inflation and they can be run AFK. Highsec isn't the only place that requires some kind of nerfs.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 09:51:21 -
[25] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:baltec1 wrote:No the problem is very much that PVE in all areas of space aside from WH is a mess. Over the years CCP have nerfed, buffed and added pve content without any thought of the overall picture which has resulted in a rather large game imbalance. Ratting in null sovs anoms using a subcap under the very best of circumstances will net you around the same as a mach blitzing level 3 missions in highsec. Greed is blinding people to the problems. You keep saying this and there is no proof supporting it. In fact, all the numbers I've been able to gather on the subject (Personal experimentation as well as checking numbers with old corpmates in null) shows that this is a bald faced lie.
We worked it out back when the pirate battleship balance pass happened, originally the goal was to beat isktar ratting in null anoms using a rapid heavy missile raven in highsec level 3s. When it was found that was possible a number of battleship specialists decide to see just how far we could take the concept and quickly found the mach could hit 84-90 mil/hr blitzing level 3 missions. Feel free to go read up on that thread.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 10:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: I talked to an old corpmate in drone lands last night actually and he said he was getting 100mill with a Vexor Navy. He was getting this with less than perfect skills but looking at the dps output of a Vexor Navy its around 800 dps for All V.
That man is telling you lies, that is greater income than a pimp fitted vindicator and on par with an active carrier.
Anize Oramara wrote: Now when it comes to Anoms, as you well know it's pretty much all about the dps and application thereof as opposed to blitzing where it's more about range, application, speed and a little about the actual dps.
Since we're comparing pirate battleships, a similarly well skilled rattlesnake or even Mach for example should be pushing out 1400 dps. Now obviously an increase of around 75% in dps does directly translate into 75% increase in isk/h but it should be a very sizable bump up. Do you have any numbers what a T2 fit rattlesnake can make? More than a similarly skilled Mach blitzing lv3s, by a huge margin.
Less.
Issue with the rattle is the delay in both the missiles getting to the target and the delay in the drones either by heavies getting to the target or returning to scoop the sentries. It also has much slower warp speed times which are key.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 10:53:59 -
[27] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Also would like to emphasize what you said here: Quote:Ratting in null sovs anoms using a subcap under the very best of circumstances will net you around the same as a mach blitzing level 3 missions in highsec. Greed is blinding people to the problems. An AFKtar is not the 'very best of circumstances'. You are comparing sub optimal semi-afk ratting with using the very best ship currently available in the game for the job and actively piloting (non-afk) it to boot.
I am comparing to the very best subcap which is the vindicator.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 11:27:35 -
[28] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Also would like to emphasize what you said here: Quote:Ratting in null sovs anoms using a subcap under the very best of circumstances will net you around the same as a mach blitzing level 3 missions in highsec. Greed is blinding people to the problems. An AFKtar is not the 'very best of circumstances'. You are comparing sub optimal semi-afk ratting with using the very best ship currently available in the game for the job and actively piloting (non-afk) it to boot. I am comparing to the very best subcap which is the vindicator. baltec1 wrote:We worked it out back when the pirate battleship balance pass happened, originally the goal was to beat isktar ratting in null anoms using a rapid heavy missile raven in highsec level 3s. When it was found that was possible a number of battleship specialists decide to see just how far we could take the concept and quickly found the mach could hit 84-90 mil/hr blitzing level 3 missions. Feel free to go read up on that thread. Try and keep your story straight.
Are you even reading what I am typing?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 11:30:48 -
[29] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: Ah right so now he lies. People said the same thing to me when I initially claimed 200mill/h+ and now you and Jenn are using it as gospel.
Again you are trying to marginalize the effectiveness of things counter to your argument by assuming worse possible scenarios. The 1400 dps was actually with heavy drones (not gecko), not sentries. Having the Rattlesnake stay close to the drones means that it's both close enough that there is a very small time between firing missiles and the missiles hitting the NPCs and that scooping drones is quick.
Warping from one site to another is nothing compared to warping from station, through 1 or 2 gates, warping to the mission pocket (and sometimes acceleration gates) and then doing all that again on the way back. Travel time is near enough a non factor with anoms, unless you're in a carrier I guess. Still no reason you cant fit hypervelocities to the rattlesnake.
Oh, and a Machariel gets 1400 dps too so your argument is irrelevant twice over.
Now factor in travel time of the heavy drones from target to target, also factor in travel time of the missiles and finally factor in travel time for the slower warping rattle.
You seem to have no grasp at all about what I am talking about.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 16:00:31 -
[30] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote: Ah right so now he lies. People said the same thing to me when I initially claimed 200mill/h+ and now you and Jenn are using it as gospel.
Again you are trying to marginalize the effectiveness of things counter to your argument by assuming worse possible scenarios. The 1400 dps was actually with heavy drones (not gecko), not sentries. Having the Rattlesnake stay close to the drones means that it's both close enough that there is a very small time between firing missiles and the missiles hitting the NPCs and that scooping drones is quick.
Warping from one site to another is nothing compared to warping from station, through 1 or 2 gates, warping to the mission pocket (and sometimes acceleration gates) and then doing all that again on the way back. Travel time is near enough a non factor with anoms, unless you're in a carrier I guess. Still no reason you cant fit hypervelocities to the rattlesnake.
Oh, and a Machariel gets 1400 dps too so your argument is irrelevant twice over.
Now factor in travel time of the heavy drones from target to target, also factor in travel time of the missiles and finally factor in travel time for the slower warping rattle. You seem to have no grasp at all about what I am talking about. Are you serious? I literally addressed each and every single one of these things in the post you quoted. What the heck man. I even said the Machariel (That has one of the best align times and very best warp speed of all BS, equal to cruisers in fact) ALSO gets 1400 dps. This is hilarious. baltec1 wrote:Are you even reading what I am typing? Relevant
No you addressed none of it. All you look at is dps charts and nothing else. Drones and missile ships are slower than gunships at shooting stuff because both have flight time on top of their cycle time and reloading. I am also not talking about cruiser warp speeds, you want the best possible warp speeds which with the mach is borderline interceptor warp speeds. Just by going off your last few posts it's clear you have never tried anything like this before.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 17:15:02 -
[31] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:
baltec, honestly what are you talking about.
Missile flight time in no way at all affects actual dps. It delays the APPLICATION of that dps by the time it takes for the first volley to hit. This is important so you need to pay attention, it delays, not reduces the dps. Since this is not pvp and the rats wont warp off grid, the dps does not change. This is where volley counting comes in and it looks like you might be unfamiliar with it. This is the technique whereby you know how many volleys it takes to kill something, so you preemptively stop firing your launchers and switch target. The great thing about PvE rats in eve is they have the same stats every single time. One of the few redeeming qualities of missiles is that they will always do the same damage to the same rat going at the same speed if your fit and skills stay constant. Thus you know that rat X, with your dps and application, will die in 4 volleys. Again, there is no reduction in dps, only a single delay of maybe 5 to 10 seconds over the entire site.
That said this can be mitigated or even eliminated by flying real close to the enemy rats. So that way you wont have to count volleys. On the upside to this is the fact that if you're using heavy drones, they will be close to you so you can scoop them easily. The other advantage of an anom is that for the most part the rats all spawn in a nice tight ball. Very little travel time required for you or your drones. Of course Sentries and long range sniping is also a very viable tactic with the rattlesnake because again, missile damage applying same damage regardless of range. Just make sure to practice your volley counting.
And yes, I have plenty of experience with the above, I ratted for many months in null with a Typhoon fleet. If you're unfamiliar with that ship it can fit cruise missiles and use 5 sentries so I had a decent amount of practice on counting volleys and using drones to finish off NPCs so you dont have overkill either. Dank efficiency.
Then theres the Machariel. While it doesn't quite have the application at range of a missile boat it has decently tracking ACs that can hit battleships at point blank very effectively, applying most of its 1400 dps (Small part of that is drones, either sentries of Hevaies)
Now, regarding the warp speed. You're going to need to read both paragraphs this time otherwise you're going to say something silly again. An ishtar has a base warp speed of 3.3 while a Machariel has a base warp speed of 3. However, the ishtar has only two rig slots, while the Mach has 3. This means the Machariel can actually go faster than the ishtar. 5 au/s vs 5.2 au/s. With High-Grade Ascendencies it's 8.1 au/s for the ishtar (a cruiser) and 8.5 au/s for the Mach. I however do not think it is worth spending that much for something that gives such a tiny effect when it comes to ratting. The rattlesnake, granted, is a bit of a slowpoke at only 4 au/s and 5.6 au/s with implants. There's also align time but that's 3 seconds of difference between a cruiser and the Mach so meh.
That said however, this actually matter far more when it comes to missions than it ever will with anoms. Since it's a single, in system warp from site to site (Where you spend 90% or more of your time in the site so warp speed effect on income is reduced over time) while in the case of blitzing missions far less than half the time is actually spent in site and more than half is spent in warp.
Now the fact that you didn't know any of the above is a little distressing baltec1, since you are giving advice as if you know a lot about this stuff.
You are quite correct in saying you don't understand what I am talking about. You need to go research this stuff.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 17:18:44 -
[32] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Everyone knows Null Sec space is way more safer than High Sec space, especially in the heart of Alliance controlled areas. Infrastructure Upgrades are basically an ISK printing press. Alliance Intel channels give advance notice of any enemy ships entering the area. I just can't see how one lone AFK Cloaker can disrupt and shut down activity in an Alliance controlled system, especially a system that's been upgraded.
DMC
If we compare mission hubs that have the same population as with dek we find dek has several hundred more killed every month. In total nullsec space beats highsec for ships killed by several million.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17040
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 17:14:16 -
[33] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:I would trade removing lvl 4's and incursions from High-Sec if we got local removed in Null. Include removing local from low-sec and my interest is perked.
Add in highsec and we might have a deal.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17040
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 17:17:12 -
[34] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:FW is the major reason for most items from the Navies to be worthless, but Concord LP from incursions is really stupid too. So... Can we surmise that Faction Warfare and Incursions may need a review with respect to the actual LP loot tables so that there are less conflicts with standard missions and the LP rewards from Empire corporations? (I'm not talking about a nerf, just a rebalance with respect to the LP rewards)
Told you the PVE imbalances are complicated
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17040
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 20:47:50 -
[35] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: What's the benefit in high-sec?
Easier to hide in a war.
Arthur Aihaken wrote: So it would seem... Is there an easier fix, like just making certain LP items exclusive to Faction Warfare as opposed to duplicating many in the Navy Factions?
Toning down the amount of LP gained per hour would help, splitting up the rewards is another and dealing with the mountain of concord LP is yet another but there is no one magic bullet. This isn't just a grr nerf highsec, its a need to revamp the lot in all areas in EVE.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:44:51 -
[36] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Easier to hide in a war. You mean as opposed to say, not undocking? Arthur Aihaken wrote:Toning down the amount of LP gained per hour would help, splitting up the rewards is another and dealing with the mountain of concord LP is yet another but there is no one magic bullet. This isn't just a grr nerf highsec, its a need to revamp the lot in all areas in EVE. Are we talking Faction Warfare, Incursions or both?
Both and also missions. It might even be a good idea to remove loot from npc wrecks and put them into the mission LP stores for highsec which would not only greatly expand the selection options for spending LP but also increase the market for T1 mods which would help new industry players. Faction equipment could be something only available in lowsec and dead space/complex mods in new null sov mission agents. Remove mission blitzing and we would have a much better risk/reward situation. Bonus being that null players would have to take gates just like in highsec so the danger is higher than today.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:34:23 -
[37] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:baltec1 wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Easier to hide in a war. You mean as opposed to say, not undocking? Arthur Aihaken wrote:Toning down the amount of LP gained per hour would help, splitting up the rewards is another and dealing with the mountain of concord LP is yet another but there is no one magic bullet. This isn't just a grr nerf highsec, its a need to revamp the lot in all areas in EVE. Are we talking Faction Warfare, Incursions or both? Both and also missions. It might even be a good idea to remove loot from npc wrecks and put them into the mission LP stores for highsec which would not only greatly expand the selection options for spending LP but also increase the market for T1 mods which would help new industry players. Faction equipment could be something only available in lowsec and dead space/complex mods in new null sov mission agents. Remove mission blitzing and we would have a much better risk/reward situation. Bonus being that null players would have to take gates just like in highsec so the danger is higher than today. Like I've said previously, I do not like the concord LP situation but since a change is already in the works and is currently being implemented, I purposefully ignore any incursion discussion, either for or against until whatever CCP has planned for it is fully implemented and the effects are observed. This however means that any suggested changes to mission LP payout or ability/speed in getting that LP is also not relevant. Currently any high value low volume LP items (everything that isn't SOE or Navy) is controlled by concord LP/Incursion runners because of the 1 to .8. conversion rate. Ideally this should be controlled by mission runners. Encourage mission runners to move around from corp to corp, system to system, make choices for who you run matter and make the standings system matter (more than it does now) and allow enterprising individuals that go the extra mile to reap extra rewards. Also allow pirates to gank additional targets as a full burner/blitz operation runs into 4 to 6 billion in ships and mods and need to be moved. SOE LP items have steadily been on the rise since the Blood event. Currently there are huge buy orders up for SOE items for over 1900isk/lp. Modules are on the market for close to 3kisk/lp. We should see the Concord LP being cashed out into SOE items soonish as soon as the converted isk/lp surpasses that of implants that incursion runners have access to. However, that does beg the question that I haven't received a good answer to. If SOE item value is on the rise, doesn't that mean demand is outstripping the mission runner's ability to supply SOE items? If so, how does reducing LP income via direct or indirect nerfs make sense? Unless you like 50mill or 100mill faction probe launchers? 500mill Stratioses? Mission running is largely a market controlled income stream so why apply external nerfs to something that's already controlled efficiently by the players? That said, if whatever they do to incursions removes or reduces the 'threat' of concord LP to LP stores consideration will need to be given on weather or not missions will need to be adjusted in accordance with that but we will only know that after incursion changes. People here are fond of bashing CCP for making too many and too big changes too quickly but those same people are prone to falling into that same trap, as demonstrated by the nerf mission crowd. Identify what systems synergies and compete Realize the effect one system will have on another Observe effects of changes to one system has on another Ask, is there (still) a problem THEN discuss a solution to the problem. You guys are skipping a few steps.
Fleshed out the idea a bit more, go re-read it.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:09:07 -
[38] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: Doesn't change anything at all, all my points are still valid and unanswered. You are still skipping steps 1-4 and going straight to step 5. Also doesn't address what is currently happening to SOE LP value and upcoming/planned changes to incursions (Drifters, OGB).
The market is apparently showing that mission LP supply can not keep up with SOE item usage demand and you are suggesting we move those items away from the majority of people supplying them further reducing supply?
How does that make sense?
Its not being moved away from most players, we all have access to low sec space.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:28:53 -
[39] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
I highlighted the part of your post where you lack any understanding of how players in this game work.
Hey if you don't want to leave the safety of highsec that's up to you but if you want those better rewards your ganna need to take that risk and put in that extra effort.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:37:39 -
[40] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote: You know better than anyone that's not how it works.
That's exactly how it should work. Highsec, lowest reward for the highest safety and least effort put in, lowsec, mid risk and effort for mid reward, nullsec, highest risk and effort for big rewards, WH, high risk and biggest effort for the biggest reward.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17042
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 14:42:44 -
[41] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote: You know better than anyone that's not how it works.
That's exactly how it should work. Highsec, lowest reward for the highest safety and least effort put in, lowsec, mid risk and effort for mid reward, nullsec, highest risk and effort for big rewards, WH, high risk and biggest effort for the biggest reward. But but, if it made sense like that, how can one have one's cake AND eat it too like you can right now in 'relative safety'? The above question is where every balance discussion ends up eventually... You two are way too intelligent to post crap like this. Both of you know that if you remove Incursions from HS, not many will care. But those that are effected will turn to lvl 4 missions. Remove lvl 4 missions and people will blitz the lvl 3's At some point you need to realize that this entire endeavor is just to make HS so bad, so poor of space that people are willing to get rid of it all together, THAT is your ultimate goal. You guys are just trying to get CCP to soften everyone up to the idea in baby steps.
Point out where I said I want incursions and level 4 missions removed. I'm talking about altering rewards not removing content.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17043
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 14:49:12 -
[42] - Quote
King Aires wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: It pleases me to no end to know that (in your short-sightedness) you think you are defending high sec and lowly solo/casuals, when in reality you are actually defending a status quo that benefits null sec and it's already space-rich overlords (where a lot of the min/maxxed wealth ends up).
I will give you an answer to this with personal experience. You can see what alliance I am in, you can see where we live. Most of us with alts appear to run incursions or missions in high sec, most of us without alts or with specialized alts run Mordus missions for insane LP rewards, far greater than anything you can get in high sec. But I really doubt my overlords are really benefiting from my alts running burner missions for soe and having our alliance live in NPC stations. On a contrasting note, the CFC we are fighting tend to spend massive amounts of time ratting and running sites in their home systems. If their alts are also running missions in empire, so be it. But what I know for a fact is sov alliances tend to use their space. So I guess I have no idea what world you live in, but it must not be the same as mine.
Even with the changes to anoms we don't have enough to go around and the bulk of the people doing anoms are using afk setups so they earn isk while doing something else. Being able to afk anoms is their only selling point.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 16:17:37 -
[43] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
Baltec wants to remove faction missions from hi-sec to low-sec without another form of compensation for producing that level of income in hi-sec.
Never said that. I said move the faction LP rewards to lowsec with faction ammo and capboosters staying in highsec. I also said CCP should move meta loot drops away from NPC wrecks and into the highsec LP shops. I never said remove the missions themselves. This the problem with you highsec bears, you don't read anything, you just scream we are out to get you and only you.
Daniela Doran wrote: Lack of foresight in full display here. Most players play in hi-sec today because they are relatively new to the experience of Eve and are not ready to take on the challenge of low sec or players who prefer casual gameplay due to lack of dedicated time.
We aren't talking about these people we are talking about people like me who know the mechanics inside and out. The average low skilled highsec player wont even see any change.
Daniela Doran wrote: The only activity there is to do in hi-sec is mostly PVE, BUT do you think even this activity would be conducted if all you could make was a lousy 30 mill an hour? Hi-Sec players doing lev 4 missions should be capable of making 50-80 mill an hour per char. Anything less than this then it would start to feel like a 2nd part time job that doesn't pay enough.
That right there is what should be happening. You SHOULD be looking at your income and saying I want what that guy in lowsec or null is earning. This is how you incentivise people to get out there.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 16:22:42 -
[44] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
Then un-blue some people.
Then we have a smaller powerblock with the same lack of anoms. Anoms are very poor at their job because they a finite, they cant adapt to growing populations like missions can. Everyone in null has this problem.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 16:26:35 -
[45] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:Like I said way back at the start of this thread, null sucks and you're blaming it on HS instead of taking your leaderships to task on why null sucks.
What exactly can they do? Its game mechanics that are the problem here and they have no control over that.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 16:31:09 -
[46] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:We've already seen what happens when null income is the best, most consistent and easily farmable in the game; giant blue rental empires and rampant RMTing. Currently it's only a mild problem because the content can still be farmed with multiboxing but any buffs to nullsec (as have started creeping into the nullies posts) will worsen it again. Jenn's entire argument depends on multiboxing not existing. Multiboxing 3 alts in null will net you more isk but that's apparently 'not fair'. It's fair that you can make double the isk with 3 alts in null than people can running the content normally with 3 alts in HS. It's fair that you can just add more alts and make double the isk I will ever be able to make in HS. But people are lazy and risk averse in null and suddenly it's unfair what hisec is able to do.
The only metric that matters is how much isk a player(not character) can make because that will dictate the level of abuse possible for that content. So why is it every time I bring multiboxing up it's immediately dismissed or ignored?
Because you can multibox incursions in highsec and make a staggering sum of isk that dwarfs any other pve activity.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 18:41:42 -
[47] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:
Funny thing is I don't give a single care about incursions, I've only ever pointed out that excessive, or the wrong kind of nerfs has in the past backfired and CCP has had to undo them. None of the suggested changes (as few and far in between as they are) are sane and most of them will have knock on effects that will harm the game. Besides they're already changing incursions. What's the point of baying for blood if we don't even know what effect the planned changes will have in the first place?
Which nerfs would those be? The most damaging things have always been buffs and new overpowered content. Tracking titans, tech moons, level 5 missions, original FW mechanics, original incursion income, anom buffs. All of them were delt with via nerfs of some kind or another. Nerfs infact tend to be the best answer to game issues.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 21:18:01 -
[48] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
Salvage nerf comes to mind. Concord LP (and the ability to exchange it). Super easy scanning mechanics which caused a rise in the exploration community effectively lowering the value of faction and deadspace mods/ships. It also made combat scanning so easy that you saw an increase in mission ganking/flipping. Removal of drone loot.
All of those things happened in low an null space too and all but scanning were very much needed and far from bad for the game.
Daniela Doran wrote: Kind of ironic that some hisec carebears come up with ways to min/max mission rewards, and nullbears who whine about it; trying to make it out that this is the norm.
Its players from null based groups that have figured out the vast bulk of the best ways to exploit the mechanics in highsec.
Daniela Doran wrote: OP made 108mil isk per hour using 3 toons. Three toons. 3 toons in nullsec flying AFK Ishtars make more than that in 1 hour of gaming with less effort involved. I can chain some FW L4 missions and make more than that. I can join an incursion and make more isk than that.
Bittervets. Get over yourselves and adapt.
We have adapted, hence the problems. We have turned highsec into the cashcow that supports our nullsec linemembers.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.01 23:02:55 -
[49] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
And yet, you continue to whine.
You keep on using that word yet you don't understand its meaning.
Were we whining when we called for tech moons to be nerfed? Or when tracking titans were not only blapping frigates in pvp but also printing so much isk they were driving inflation?
Pointing out game imbalances is not whining.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.02 10:46:20 -
[50] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
But this is what you really meant when you said that, isn't?
No, hence why I am not asking for the removal of content from highsec.
Daniela Doran wrote:
Yea you don't miss the opportunity to brag when you can. You've been playing Eve for 10 years compared to me only playing the game 2.5 years so I can't compete with you in regards to Eve experience. But just because you have the experience doesn't mean that players with less experience should just accept your way of viewing how things should be in Eve without even considering their opinions. You alone don't make up the player base. Regardless if you're right or wrong, if the player base doesn't accept your propose way of thinking then it shouldn't be accepted.
2.5 years is also far from new. And yes, if you don't have the experience you don't exactly have any say in the subject because you don't have the knowledge.
Daniela Doran wrote:
Wrong again. You can't forced no one to play in null sec if they don't want to.
Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. If you don't want to leave the safety of highsec you don't have to, just don't expect to be earing as much as people who do leave and take on that extra effort and risk.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17044
|
Posted - 2015.12.02 19:28:28 -
[51] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
Missed this. I understand it completely. It's not a game mechanic imbalance. It's an imbalance created by the players.
Your problem is that you live in a sea of blues in nullsec, and basically suffer from overpopulation. Sure it gives you some security, but it also causes resource competition. Reduce your blues/population and you will have more resources to share with those who remains. Of course, your level of security will go down a bit; but that is the trade off.
Now instead of fixing the real problems which were created by your own alliance, you look to either buff your null income or nerf the hisec income so your turf looks better. So yeah, until your alliance gets its house in order, you are basically whining.
So your answer to fixing the hardcap on how many people can PVE in null is to depopulate null...
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 05:35:39 -
[52] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:It would be interesting to know exactly how many people actually blitz missions for 100 mill per hour plus. It seems to me the bulk of mission runners get nothing like that and many newer players spend over an hour on one level 4 mission that may return 20 mill ISK if they are lucky.
It is highly unlikely that the handful of people making 100 mill plus per hour as an ACTIVE activity are online enough to be having that much effect on the EVE economy.
Nerfing mission running on the basis that some minuscule percentage of older high SPcharacters can make good ISK in level 4 missions (rather than running 5s in a Carrier in losec or whatever ) is likely to seriously effect newer players and probably be detrimental overall.
The nerfs being talked about would only impact the people who blitz missions. The people who dont blitz would see no change. Its also worth pointing out the average pilot running anoms in null also isnt maxing out the system. The afktar will net around 45 mil/hr in perfect circumstances and it will die in the not too distant future.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 05:41:35 -
[53] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
Or maybe you spread out some. After all, ya'll pretty much focused in one area of nullsec. Vast swaths are pretty much barren, and I know it's mostly because they are so damn far out there. Players want to stay within jump distance so they can get their goods from/to hisec, and that is also a problem; but more of logistics and bad structure design by CCP.
Logistics isnt the reason large parts of null are empty. They are empty because the systems are terrible in quality to the point where it is simply not worth investing in.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 11:09:47 -
[54] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
What?!
45mil an hour if you were skilled like a noob maybe.
You literally just told us three pages ago that an ishtar made as much as the 90mil an hour blitz level 3 guys... we literally can pull your own words to prove you are lying.
No I did not and have never said an afk ishtar will make 90 mil/hr. Please stop telling blatant lies.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 18:06:04 -
[55] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:
What?!
45mil an hour if you were skilled like a noob maybe.
You literally just told us three pages ago that an ishtar made as much as the 90mil an hour blitz level 3 guys... we literally can pull your own words to prove you are lying.
No I did not and have never said an afk ishtar will make 90 mil/hr. Please stop telling blatant lies. You very incorrectly said that running the best setup in anoms would net you the same as a lvl3 blitzer in High Sec, which you incorrectly pegged at 100mil an hour. Then you went on to say that you were in a RHML Raven in HS making 84mil blitzing lvl 3's which would have put you ahead of Stoic's optimal Rail Tengu/Mach numbers. Then you went on to say you were talking about Vindicators... So basically, you Fudded your way through several posts, none of which are true and none of which have real numbers. AFK Ishtar is EASILY 75mil to 85mil per hour in pure bounty plus the odd boost from loot fairy. And because a fully upgraded system now has a minimum of 5 high end anoms, you can run a few in each system you have access to. I love your attempts to be sly, you just keep lying about everything though.
Quote that passage of text, you will find that you are talking bullshit.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.03 18:26:22 -
[56] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Can we revisit this 90m ISK/hour estimate blitzing L3s? I seriously doubt this is obtainable, and rather than quoting threads I'd like to see some of those championing L3 blitzing post their fits and actual numbers achieved. This includes a breakdown of mission rewards, NPC bounties, salvage where applicable and ISK/LP conversion - in addition to which Empire Faction and system type.
Otherwise we can add this claim to cold fusion and crop circles.
Looking back you were there at ground zero when this was discovered. But here we are anyway.
This was done With the following.
[Machariel, Level - 3] Gyrostabilizer II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Signal Amplifier II Signal Amplifier II Medium Armor Repairer II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script 100MN Microwarpdrive II
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Cannon II, Phased Plasma L Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Warden II x4 Hobgoblin II x5
Implants: 5% dmg: ss-905 5% dmg: LP1005 10% warp speed: ws-610
Warp speed: 5.18 AU/s Guns: 1005 DPS Range: 4.8km+69km
I would like to point out that improvements have been made on the above fit which has given it even faster warp speeds.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 01:15:14 -
[57] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Looking back you were there at ground zero when this was discovered. Probably, but I've lost track of many of these threads. Thanks for posting the spreadsheet analysis. It looks like if we use an ISK/LP conversion ratio of 2000 (which seems a tad on the high side), 80m ISK/hour is achievable. On the low side, 55m ISK/hour. So a happy medium is probably somewhere in the middle around 67.5m ISK/hour.
80 mil/hr isn't too hard to get with the newer mach fits as they get 8 au warp speeds, longer falloff and faster locking times than the original. Your looking at 90 mil/hr maxed out and it's no harder than piloting a hyperion or vindi in anoms. SOE probes are also selling at very good rates at the moment.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 01:37:09 -
[58] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:SOE probes are also selling at very good rates at the moment. 2000 ISK/IP good?
2400 as of now. Even some of the faction ammo is knocking on for 2000 and good many in demand implants are well over 3000.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 06:06:43 -
[59] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
Thanks Arthur for taking the time to gather REALISTIC isk per hour figures on mission blitzing. What the high inflated numbers don't explain is that those figures are only achievable under optimal conditions and with only running with SOE.
Not only are they realistic but right now they are based upon 2000isk/lp, the current going price of combat probes is 2400 so you can be earning more that 90mil/hr doing level 3 missions. 2000 isk/lp can also be found in a surprisingly large number of factions too.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 11:05:04 -
[60] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Somewhat off-topic (but still related), when you run in a SoE system your likelihood of being ganked just increased 10-fold (if not more).
Chances of a t2 fitted battleship getting ganked are as close to nil as you can get.
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
As previously indicated (as as the numbers demonstrate), 2000 ISK/LP is unrealistic and 2400 ISK/LP is grossly exaggerated.
Your numbers are wrong, the tools we are using are indeed accurate hence why they get used.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 12:05:17 -
[61] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
You don't need to use tools. I have station trading alts in Amarr, Dodixie, Ren and Jita and I can tell you that his numbers aren't that far off.
He is 110,000 isk per unit off.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 16:53:38 -
[62] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:
No you can't go by what they are selling for because it shows I am wrong in a way I cannot argue against.
Fixed that for you.
Now that we have shown you the facts we can move this topic back to the pressing need of reform of this game imbalance.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 16:54:48 -
[63] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:LP rates change based on player demand. Market economy and all that. What might be high one week, can be low the next. For all we know someone could have been saving up for months to buy up all the probes and launchers, and the resell them at a higher price. So stop niggling on a wildcard in the equation.
The only thing in PVE that stays constant is the bounty.
SOE prices have been steady for years.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 17:52:05 -
[64] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:baltec1 wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:LP rates change based on player demand. Market economy and all that. What might be high one week, can be low the next. For all we know someone could have been saving up for months to buy up all the probes and launchers, and the resell them at a higher price. So stop niggling on a wildcard in the equation.
The only thing in PVE that stays constant is the bounty. SOE prices have been steady for years. Oh? Show proof.
I think it is about time for you so show some proof. I have posted guides, fits, graphs and endless statistics, now its your turn.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.04 23:17:41 -
[65] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:
I don't have to. Everyone knows prices fluctuate in a market economy. EVE is no different. You stated that the price has been steady for years. You are the one stating something as fact. Not I. Burden of proof is on you.
No dice, prove what you are saying for once.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.05 09:10:15 -
[66] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I don't think you necessarily need a Machariel, though. A HML Tengu with FoF missiles would probably suffice (warp speed with a Gravitational Capacitor will be comparable), and you can run a passive fit for the most part. 600 applied DPS with implants, no micromanagement and a fast align time would seem to meet the requirements (you're not going to be getting 1000+ DPS with a Machariel at maximum range anyway).
.
FoF tengu wont get close to a mach.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.05 09:15:35 -
[67] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
You are the dishonest one here claiming things that are easily verified as false.
I'm the only one here who has back up what they have said with spreadsheets, data, fits and guides. Your side so far has absolutely noting to back up what you say. As usual.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Markets move up and down and the numbers you claim are so far off base we can safely discard them.
Prove what you are saying.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.06 04:14:33 -
[68] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote:I'm not quite sure it's that simple. Granted, I also don't believe their argument that they are just doing it for other people's benefit (won't someone think of the children).
Tech moon nerf, tracking titan nerf, anom nerf, FW nerf (the one where we could make 1 trillion in a weekend) are a few examples of things I have supported in the past. All of them directly hurt my income, my corps income and my alliances income. I call out game imbalances for what they are even if it negatively impacts me.
The Bigpuns wrote: There should be incentive for people to go to nullsec. Activities there's should pay more than equivalent activities in high.
And they do.
I have shown countless times now that they do not. Anoms, the primary activity and income source in null pay at best around the same as highsec level 3 missions.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.06 13:47:44 -
[69] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Again, even if the 70-90mil per hour for blitzing lvl 3s was "easy" you can still run three accounts "easier" doing anoms.
It is infact just as easy to run 3 accounts in level 4 missions as it is running them in anoms.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: So actually per person behind a keyboard you have the potential to make more than incursions, lvl 4 or lvl 3 missions with relatively lighter workload.
Per person its 90 mil at the very most you will get from anoms, this is on par with level 3 missions per person.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Also, you guys should be happy now. Incursions just got a huge nerf due to the changes in Logi. RIP Shield Vindi fleets (32km optimal shield logi lulz)
Logi sit on top on the fleet, no change for them at all.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.06 23:55:40 -
[70] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Point 1) You are full of crap. You cannot multi-box mission blitz characters, not even close. You are blatantly lying.
People run FC fleets while running probing alts at the same time, running multiple blitz alts is easier than that.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Point 2) Per character it is 25mil ticks AFK... or 75mil per character. This scales with the number of systems and the upgrades available. Running 3 accounts at 25mil ticks is almost as easy as running 1 at 30mil ticks. Again, you are blatantly lying.
You can also run them AFK in missions for a similar amount.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Point 3) You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, even so with the fitting changes and the Scimi losing 50 CPU, you will never fit an Incursion Scimi the same again. Going to chalk this one up to ignorance.
Stop lying Baltec, you are just fudding your way through this horribly.
Why would your logi move more than 35 km away from the DPS in an incursion fleet in the first place? There is no reason at all for the logi to be any more than 5km away from the fleet.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 00:02:45 -
[71] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:This thread has got TL&DR .
However my superficial impression is the argument seems to be "because maybe 50 or 100 mission runners (out of 300,000 subscriptions) at Lanngisi blitz missions and deliberately trash their agent standings to just above -2.0 please nerf all highsec ISK making activity :D
It's just politics the overall motive is to reduce highsec income for all mission runners and the blitzers are just good propoganda. This a handful of scrubs shoould't decide the outcome for all.
So would you like to reverse the tech moon nerf?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 00:18:39 -
[72] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:
It is infact just as easy to run 3 accounts in level 4 missions as it is running them in anoms.
Per person its 90 mil at the very most you will get from anoms, this is on par with level 3 missions per person.
Logi sit on top on the fleet, no change for them at all.
Point 1) You are full of crap. You cannot multi-box mission blitz characters, not even close. You are blatantly lying. Point 2) Per character it is 25mil ticks AFK... or 75mil per character. This scales with the number of systems and the upgrades available. Running 3 accounts at 25mil ticks is almost as easy as running 1 at 30mil ticks. Again, you are blatantly lying. Point 3) You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, even so with the fitting changes and the Scimi losing 50 CPU, you will never fit an Incursion Scimi the same again. Going to chalk this one up to ignorance. Stop lying Baltec, you are just fudding your way through this horribly. I agree. You are soo full of it baltec. baltec1 wrote: Per person its 90 mil at the very most you will get from anoms, this is on par with level 3 missions per person.
This post from you is your most ridiculously dumbfounded post thus far in this thread.
So far I have backed up everything I have said with data, charts, guides, fits, spreadsheets and even videos. To date you have provided nothing to back up your argument other than insults and lies.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 00:59:35 -
[73] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:baltec1 wrote: So would you like to reverse the tech moon nerf?
Implying you directly received any of it anyway, , its personal income argument here not alliance wide. .
Argument here is game balance, tech is just one example of poor balance that benefited a handful of people.
OK how about the FW nerf that stopped us from earning 1 trillion in a single weekend? Its only a handful of people after all.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 01:07:55 -
[74] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
That is the problem with Baltec and Jenn. Their issue with income in High Sec is with Incursions (which 1.5% run) and lvl 4's (Which are LP value dependent).
Incursions just got a nerf in the form of Logi fitting, module fitting, cycle times, range. Incursions had a nerf before that in drone assist limits. Incursions are about to be nerfed harder by OGB changes.
Is it enough for them? Nope, they minimalize it.
None of those things have or will nerf incursion income.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Null sec got Anoms boosted this summer, are they happy? Nope
Anoms don't work with large populations even with that buff and have a host of other issues. You have been told this countless times.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: And their lvl 4 arguments revolve around a broken LP market for 3 total agents in High Sec, only two that are particularly useful. So really they have an issue with the market value of LP, while ignoring the fact they could make 2x as much running the same missions in Null.
Actually its just about every faction LP store, even the caldari navy can net you close to 2000 LP
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
And LOL@ "FC's probe on alt accounts while running a fleet so missions are easy to multibox"
Where you flying? MoA?!
Just about every fleet in null operates like this.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 01:11:33 -
[75] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Jerry T Pepridge wrote:baltec1 wrote: So would you like to reverse the tech moon nerf?
Implying you directly received any of it anyway, , its personal income argument here not alliance wide. . Argument here is game balance, tech is just one example of poor balance that benefited a handful of people. OK how about the FW nerf that stopped us from earning 1 trillion in a single weekend? Its only a handful of people after all. The FW nerf was due to CCP realizing there was a problem in their code and fixing it. QQ more somewhere else, but code fixes for exploits shouldn't be the hill you decide to die on.
And the problems we are pointing out are also problems with code that we are exploiting to the max. How about we bring back tracking titans again so we can earn 500mil/hr? I'm sure plex buyers would love for all of that raw isk to flood into the economy.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17046
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 01:21:55 -
[76] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
What do you think needs to happen here, what exactly is your argument, that null should be buffed, or the SOE agents should be nerfed?
PVE in all areas of space needs a top down revamp. Remove the ability to blitz missions, massively reduce incursion payouts in highsec, FW missions need to also be revamped so you cant blitz them in a bomber, Anoms need to be retired as the primary form of making isk in null and replaced with mission agents. Loot and LP markets also need to be revamped to better reward people who fly in the more dangerous areas of space. Moon mining needs to become active not passive income.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: you have options, you can crash the price of all SOE items
That's not an option, the SOE market will only crash if CCP nerfs the items it sells.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17047
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 08:41:11 -
[77] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
You can very easily crash any market in this game.
Not markets like SOE that are in huge demand and have a relatively wide distribution.
Jerry T Pepridge wrote: I certainly can agree it does need to be looked at Top down, your ideas would bring some great conflicts, particular the moon mining, but i think alliances that hold sov need some income to balance all the isk required to "live" there.
Income will come via taxing for things such as using infrastructure. A little more incentive to go live in the space you own.
Jerry T Pepridge wrote: My idea is a little simpler. leave everything as it is, Missions in Nullsec need to be easier to complete, so the players there can use cheaper ships / pvp ships to do the content.
Imagine If a PVP vexor could complete a nullsec L4 PVE mission.
It can. A small gang of 5 pvp fitted ships is very efficient at running missions.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17047
|
Posted - 2015.12.07 10:45:48 -
[78] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote: Do you have any figures to show ? these markets will be / are well on there way to be / already saturated. As more and more switch, and more and more get produced, the price can only go down to a point where something else(caldari navy probs) has better isk/LP ratio & has agent in idyllic location.
the prices of the other lp stores will rise, as more people swap to soe.
SOE LP has been steady for years, the sum of isk required to crash that market would be gigantic to the point of making the ice interdictions look cheap and the effect only temporary, a week or two at best. Nobody has pockets that deep.
Jerry T Pepridge wrote: id like to be able to solo it, in something most people can afford to lose (a t2 pvp fitted cruiser) after just one of these horrible eve pve missions you guys do.
Entirely possible, sig tanking combined with a rep works but you will take a hit isk/hr doing so. Running around in a small gang is more ideal as it provides dedicated logi, more firepower and the ability to respond to threats more effectively.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17047
|
Posted - 2015.12.08 10:23:21 -
[79] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Overall this thread is totally illogical.
Claimed issue: People make too much out of SOE missioning
Rational Solution: Increase the ISK component of SOE specific LP store items
Commonly Suggested Solution: Nerf hisec LP for everyone everywhere
It's not just SOE it's the entire PVE setup. Highsec offers better rewards than null sec from most level 4 agents and a good few level 3 agents match it, low sec offers the best isk/hr of all, beating even WH income and all you need to risk is a t2 fitted torp bomber. In null the primary isk maker is so easy you can run them afk but can only support a handful per system and inject too much raw isk. Ironically because anoms inject a large amount of isk it means that they are slowly becoming worth less as inflation happens. This is why nobody belt rats these days while back in 2005 you could find a raven in almost every belt in null.
PVE has a lot of problems in all areas of space.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17047
|
Posted - 2015.12.08 13:39:41 -
[80] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Overall this thread is totally illogical.
Claimed issue: People make too much out of SOE missioning
Rational Solution: Increase the ISK component of SOE specific LP store items
Commonly Suggested Solution: Nerf hisec LP for everyone everywhere
It's not just SOE it's the entire PVE setup. Highsec offers better rewards than null sec from most level 4 agents and a good few level 3 agents match it, low sec offers the best isk/hr of all, beating even WH income and all you need to risk is a t2 fitted torp bomber. In null the primary isk maker is so easy you can run them afk but can only support a handful per system and inject too much raw isk. Ironically because anoms inject a large amount of isk it means that they are slowly becoming worth less as inflation happens. This is why nobody belt rats these days while back in 2005 you could find a raven in almost every belt in null. PVE has a lot of problems in all areas of space. And as we have said before. Mission for mission Low/Null pays out far more for the same missions than HS does. Don't like the risk? Don't do em in Null sec. It has nothing to do with how "good" high sec is, that is a player created problem. Next, WH income is unmatched, yes FW is nice and all, but WH is unmatched. It also has the greatest risk and effort. Belt ratting is still done by people without standings or skills required to do missions or anoms. That being said, it is a neglected piece of content that CCP has forgotten about over the years. It is on my personal list of things CCP should buff before they do anything more with sov or Gila nerfs. And then you went off the deep end. "Inflation". There is only one single part of the eve economy "inflating" and its Plex. Plex is not a normal item so it is never included in price index. EVERYTHING ELSE IS DEFLATING. 1 billion graphs, a dozen CCP reports and fanfest videos over the last half decade and you still lie straight through your teeth that the economy suffer inflation...
So it should be easy for you to show this deflation over the last decade.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17048
|
Posted - 2015.12.08 16:10:34 -
[81] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:We going to talk about the buff to anoms now in the form of grid sizes?
Not only can you use local as your intel, you can now see ships in warp 8k out. Meaning even ceptors will still be roughly 4 or 5 seconds away from deceleration before they can lock and will be visible on your overview. Add to that changes incoming to warp decel curves so ships don't just appear at the end of warp, instead you visibly see them slow down on your UI.
Just one more thing to make Null sec safer and safer.
A ratting ship is in warp when said neural enters local, this makes zero difference to safety.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17048
|
Posted - 2015.12.08 17:47:34 -
[82] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:And then you went off the deep end. "Inflation". There is only one single part of the eve economy "inflating" and its Plex. Plex is not a normal item so it is never included in price index. EVERYTHING ELSE IS DEFLATING. 1 billion graphs, a dozen CCP reports and fanfest videos over the last half decade and you still lie straight through your teeth that the economy suffer inflation... http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68738/1/economy.indices_4.png Yep... There is the result of CPI over the course of the Game History... under 100, well under. Primary under a hundred. Secondary and Mineral barely moved up overall in over 10 years... that is what we would call, deflation.
Ok lets look at this shall we.
My favourite ship the Megathon has more than doubled in price in the last 5 years.
Tritanium, lifeblood of EVE, has again, doubled in price. Pyrite, doubled. Mexallon, doubled.
Even the drake has doubled in price. You could buy a drake and fit it for less than the hull costs today. Anyone who says inflation hasn't happened either hasn't been paying attention or is too new to know any different.
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
That's not a good thing, it means we are making more isk than we can spend. We are hoarding isk.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17048
|
Posted - 2015.12.08 20:15:02 -
[83] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
We have done this before, and I will school you again.
Ships, particularly BS sized, were changed a number of years ago and their build materials were increased. Now... that aside, no the price overall for primary goods like hulls have not gone up.
Notice how the materials have doubled in price? That has nothing to do with the battleship changes. If the materials have doubled in price guess what happens to the build costs. It also doesn't matter how or why the price goes up what matters is that its gone up. Between bigger build costs and material costs inflation has happened.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: You might be able to find a couple of hulls, over a specific set of years where the price increased, but overall, as CCP's data says, they have decreased in price.
The only ships that have fallen in price are the pirate faction ships and that is simply due to a massive increase in BPC drops. All the other ships are far more expensive than they used to be to the tune of doubling in price in near all cases.
Market McSelling Alt wrote: Are you seriously suggesting that CCP's economic data is wrong? Or are you so butt hurt that you are trying to cherry pick anything you can to save face?
I'm sating you have no idea how to use it.
Here is the simple fact, I am paying well over twice as much for my ships than five years ago.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17049
|
Posted - 2015.12.09 08:40:15 -
[84] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:the data doesn't lie.
There could be some flaws in some aspect of the analysis or some strange items in the CPI but hopefully the data set is random/big enough that it captures a good overall picture. Prices for some t1 ships changed by a lot, prices for nearly everything else went down. Overall I believe what it is saying.
On the velocity of isk: personally I spend almost all my isk, but there are plenty of bored trillionaires with a butt ton of isk. plus who knows how much sitting in corp wallets. Just because you spent a few billion doesn't mean squat for the velocity of isk for the population of eve. Spend a trillion and I'll be ever so slightly interested.
T2 went down when CCP broke the tech moon monopoly which was forcing the price of t2 items artificially high. Despite the efforts of the usual suspects it's simple fact that prices have risen. A fully t2 fitted drake used to cost 45 million, today you are looking at 54 million just for the hull. Back in the day you could pick up a freighter for 600 mil, today you're looking at 1.3 billion.
Costs have gone up and CCP have had to step in to reduce the amount of isk entering the system several times in the past. This is why having anoms as the primary way of earning isk is a bad plan, they don't adapt to inflation because bounties can't rise while at the same time the inject the very isk that is causing them to lose value. Add on the fact you can run them afk and they can't support more than a few players per system and it becomes clear anoms can't continue to be the primary pve content in null sov.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17049
|
Posted - 2015.12.09 13:05:11 -
[85] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:baltec1 wrote:This is why having anoms as the primary way of earning isk is a bad plan, they don't adapt to inflation because bounties can't rise while at the same time the inject the very isk that is causing them to lose value. Add on the fact you can run them afk and they can't support more than a few players per system and it becomes clear anoms can't continue to be the primary pve content in null sov. In case I missed it somewhere, what exactly is the proposal to buff null-sec income?
Replace the current military index bonus to anoms with a mission agent system. The military index determines what mission agents are available.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
17051
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 16:58:41 -
[86] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:The Bigpuns wrote:Can I just ask what missions have actually changed? I haven't noticed any differences, but that says more about how little attention I pay to spawns and objectives, I just keep shooting until there's no more red... I'm working on a short list. Feel free to let me know if you notice anything amiss...
Done a few of the missions you listed and they are all the same on my end, must have been some kind of bug.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
|
|
|
|