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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1788
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:06:07 -
[91] - Quote
next up npc escorts because hiring mercs costs valuable isk
Recruiting V I R I I Small Gang Nullsec PVP
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
132
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:19:47 -
[92] - Quote
Nice try with that anger stuff, I'm sure it works on someone. If someone is angry and, may I say, somewhat anxious judging by their behaviour lately, it's your bunch.
I love how you present bumping mechanic as something which has been intentionally developed to reduce safety of freighters whereas CCP employees (Fozzie) refer to it as a "wonky side-effect of" eve's "physics system". Lovely spin, as usual, shame there's an ever increasing amount of clear statements and data working against you.
As for -10's running around hisec, I'm impressed by your knowledge of CCP's intended design goals. You must be Hilmar's alt, or something. Myself, I'd say CCP didn't want to close hisec for those chars, allowing them to move through it. However, I doubt they ever wanted -10's to operate basically unhindered in hisec (which is fairly easy now with insta docks/undocks, ability to dock up in any station and reship there etc.). Also, if you want to tackle a freighter besides bumping - there is a mechanic for that, it's called warp disruption.
The only chips I have to deal with are those occasionally found on my table (hint: French fries). Back on topic, removing ability of -10's to easily gank (as they do nowadays) would make ganking more expensive - true, and that would be the point. You'd still want to go after big 'whales' but I doubt many folks would bother with ganking empty freighters, at least to the degree its being done today. Why - well because ganking would actually have CONSEQUENCES (and fairly light ones too, I mean if you can't afford to spend 200-300 mil every now and then to restore your sec status while ganking, then you're doing something terribly wrong). I don't understand why you find it so hard to accept the possibility of such a scenario, while all this time you advocate consequence based gameplay. I'd say such a change would be much more EVE-like then current mechanics are. Anyway, let's wait and see, I bet that in the end I'll be the one laughing  |

Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1929
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Posted - 2015.11.05 13:51:26 -
[93] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:I love how you present bumping mechanic as something which has been intentionally developed to reduce safety of freighters whereas CCP employees (Fozzie) refer to it as a "wonky side-effect of" eve's "physics system". Lovely spin, as usual, shame there's an ever increasing amount of clear statements and data working against you. CCP has had 12 years to make changes to the bumping mechanics. They just revisited and rebalanced freighters two years ago. If they wanted to fix bumping they would have. They haven't because it is clear that criminals need some way to tackle ships in highsec or freighters would be almost perfectly safe from them. There isn't some grand conspiracy here: CCP wants freighters to be vulnerable to criminals. If they remove/change bumping, it will be replaced with some other interdiction method or weakness for freighters.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:As for -10's running around hisec, I'm impressed by your knowledge of CCP's intended design goals. You must be Hilmar's alt, or something. Myself, I'd say CCP didn't want to close hisec for those chars, allowing them to move through it. However, I doubt they ever wanted -10's to operate basically unhindered in hisec (which is fairly easy now with insta docks/undocks, ability to dock up in any station and reship there etc.). Also, if you want to tackle a freighter besides bumping - there is a mechanic for that, it's called warp disruption. Again with the myth propagating. -10 are far from unhindered. There are very limited ways in which they can operate which practically necessitates the current way ganking is done.
CCP is quite concerned about allowing suicide gankers to operate in highsec. They of course have to be a little careful about expressing that unpopular truth in public, but there are hints of that all throughout the CSM minutes (like on page 59 where they are worried about an "unhealthy reduction suicide ganking") and other less public sources. CCP wouldn't have built the security status system, Crimewatch mechanics if they just wanted to prevent criminals from operating or always use tags to repair their status. It would have been much simpler just to lock criminals out of highsec if that was their design goal.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:The only chips I have to deal with are those occasionally found on my table (hint: French fries). Back on topic, removing ability of -10's to easily gank (as they do nowadays) would make ganking more expensive - true, and that would be the point. You'd still want to go after big 'whales' but I doubt many folks would bother with ganking empty freighters, at least to the degree its being done today. Why - well because ganking would actually have CONSEQUENCES (and fairly light ones too, I mean if you can't afford to spend 200-300 mil every now and then to restore your sec status while ganking, then you're doing something terribly wrong). I don't understand why you find it so hard to accept the possibility of such a scenario, while all this time you advocate consequence based gameplay. I'd say such a change would be much more EVE-like then current mechanics are. Anyway, I'd say, let's wait and see, I'll bet that in the end I'll be the one laughing  I am equally sure you will be raging impotently just as you are now whatever changes are made. CCP is not going to make freighters safe from criminals ever so no matter how they iterate or "balance" things CODE. is going to continue to explode them. You will then be back on the forums the next week demanding yet another nerf to solve what you think is a problem ("Consequences!, we want them"), yet is intended game play put into the game on purpose by the developer.
I hope "Angry Rham" is just a persona and you really are having fun behind the keyboard because it certainly doesn't come across that way. Remember, Eve Online is just a video game. |

Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1790
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Posted - 2015.11.05 14:25:35 -
[94] - Quote
why is someone wearing an Angel Cartel jacket and opposing criminal activity, what a time to be alive 
Recruiting V I R I I Small Gang Nullsec PVP
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Ione Kjyshy
TSOE Po1ice TSOE Consortium
0
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Posted - 2015.11.05 14:52:22 -
[95] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Bumping is essential as the only realistic counter to the insane EHP of freighters.
I don't see EHP of freighters being insanely high. If a ship can be alpha'd in HighSec with number of ships and modules that cost less than the said freighters hull I'd say it's quite effectively the opposite. |

La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
442
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:04:24 -
[96] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Freighter bumping is aggression-free tackle. That's problematic. You shouldn't be able to tackle another ship permanently without consequences. Why? ...Snipped the blah...
Because everything in EvE has usually consequences. Guys like you demand consequences for other stuff but if you need to adapt, you want to get picky.
Always telling others that are possibilities to avoid bumping, avoiding and ignoring, that bumping is a risk free game mechanic. And once again, guys like you, love to sing songs about how you hate those risk averse ppl and how to force them to fight, ignoring all reasonable arguments. So you hate risk avoiding ppl, but of course it is alright if it suits you.
That behavior does not make you evil, it makes you pathetic.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2588
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:09:35 -
[97] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:....That behavior does not make you evil, it makes you pathetic. Says the dude hiding out in an NPC corp lol
Scrubalicous, really. Thank you for that.
F
Would you like to know more?
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
851
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:27:27 -
[98] - Quote
Ione Kjyshy wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Bumping is essential as the only realistic counter to the insane EHP of freighters. I don't see EHP of freighters being insanely high. If a ship can be alpha'd in HighSec with number of ships and modules that cost less than the said freighters hull I'd say it's quite effectively the opposite.
This is essentially bollocks. I shouldn't have to explain why. |

La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
442
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:27:51 -
[99] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:La Rynx wrote:....That behavior does not make you evil, it makes you pathetic. Says the dude hiding out in an NPC corp lol Scrubalicous, really. Thank you for that.
Oh please, you are welcome. I am not hiding, i am stating my own opinion and do not need the backup of my alliance to boost it.
You obviously have not realized, that NPC arguments makes *you* pathetic since you have no other argument to bring up? Time to wake up, only kindergarden kids, codies and their friends from C&P give a "shi-t", because they have no good arguments.
Black Pedro wrote:So much anger. I suggest ...
Have you any idea how hard the codie-bullshit-BINGO is ringing whith your arguments?
Apropos hiding... Why are you not in any corp of the codie alliance? You are very very obviously more than friend to them?

Why oh why should *WE* be angry? Changes to bumping are bad for you, not "us".

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2588
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:33:52 -
[100] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:reeeeee reeeeee reeeee Fixed your spelling for you.
EDIT: Im thinking of changing my sig! "You can't spell REEE REE without NPC CORP membership."
F
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
442
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:35:11 -
[101] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:La Rynx wrote:reeeeee reeeeee reeeee Fixed your spelling for you.
Sweet. but no arguments. Get your posts ready to be deleted.
Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2588
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Posted - 2015.11.05 15:36:48 -
[102] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:La Rynx wrote:reeeeee reeeeee reeeee Fixed your spelling for you. Sweet. but no arguments. Get your posts ready to be deleted. Wait, did you just yell "MOM!, Feyd is bugging me!!!" ?
REEE REEE REEE!
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
1830
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Posted - 2015.11.05 16:12:07 -
[103] - Quote
BirdStrike wrote:As things stand it is broken that participents in a heist (bumpers) don't get suspect flagged - lets be fair, demanding immunity from consequences is exactly what carebears do so its a bit rich to suggest freighter jacking should be risk free. Let's think a moment about why this is even the case? Why are bumpers so untouchable and so well protected?
Obviously it's because bumping machs are protected by the Code and blessed by James 315, which makes them essentially invincible bumping machs.
I really hope I got that point across.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Toxic Yaken
Amarr Squad
28
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Posted - 2015.11.05 16:35:23 -
[104] - Quote
So uhhh... do we actually know what they're doing with bumping yet?
Highsec Spaceboat Pirate
Amarr Squad Diplomat
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
132
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Posted - 2015.11.05 16:38:46 -
[105] - Quote
Nope, but we can make a threadnaught while waiting  |

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
132
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Posted - 2015.11.05 16:58:07 -
[106] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:I hope "Angry Rham" is just a persona and you really are having fun behind the keyboard because it certainly doesn't come across that way. Remember, Eve Online is just a video game. Oh well, saddens me that you claim to see anger or at least try to provoke an angry reaction in every poster who disagrees with you. I hope that passive-agressive Pedro is just a persona, but I doubt it. |

Toxic Yaken
Amarr Squad
28
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Posted - 2015.11.05 16:59:26 -
[107] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Nope, but we can make a threadnaught while waiting 
A constructive threadnought or another C&P vs the world circlejerk? 
Highsec Spaceboat Pirate
Amarr Squad Diplomat
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Tengu Grib
Black Hydra Consortium.
1457
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Posted - 2015.11.05 17:37:29 -
[108] - Quote
Samwise Everquest wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Austneal wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Samwise Everquest wrote:Bumping should cause damage to both ships involved :D Bumping should only cause damage to the buming ship. NOT the ship being bumped. It's not the freighters fault he got bumped, so he shouldn't take damage. It's not fair to be able to damage a ship and circumvent destruction at the hands of CONCORD. "It's not the freighter's fault he got suicide ganked" "It's not the miner's fault they got wardec'd" That's not really a valid arguing point. If they apply damage mechanics to bumping, then both ships need to take damage. Not that I'm in favor of damage dealing bumps, but it would have to be applied equally. It should only apply to ships with an active prop mod. Anything other than that is unfair and unbalanced. Crash into a parked car doing 90 mph then come back and suggest that.
You didn't have a NOS system installed so it shouldn't do damage.
Special thanks to Carlvagio for being a cool bro and financing fun activities.
StonerPhReak> Being an adult sucks.
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Tengu Grib
Black Hydra Consortium.
1457
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Posted - 2015.11.05 17:41:49 -
[109] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:
And one post "No 5 is alive" suggests subscriber numbers *are* rising.
That's good to hear and I really hope it's true.
Special thanks to Carlvagio for being a cool bro and financing fun activities.
StonerPhReak> Being an adult sucks.
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Siegfried Cohenberg
Schlomos Incorporated Shut It Down
124
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Posted - 2015.11.05 19:03:29 -
[110] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: You'd still want to go after big 'whales' but I doubt many folks would bother with ganking empty freighters, at least to the degree its being done today. Why - well because ganking would actually have CONSEQUENCES (and fairly light ones too, I mean if you can't afford to spend 200-300 mil every now and then to restore your sec status while ganking, then you're doing something terribly wrong)
Being -10 in highsec already has consequences. It limits your gameplay options. On my -10 characters I can do a couple of things. I can move through highsec but I can never stop moving. So all I'm really limited to doing is just more ganking.
If I want to do things like suspect bait then I need to buy tags for 300m. So now my security status is high enough to have unhindered movement. If I gank again I have to decide if I'm going to limit the amount of things I aggress or do I go all out and get back to -5 within a few hours. A few pods later and that 300m tag purchase is gone. |

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
132
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 20:37:48 -
[111] - Quote
Siegfried Cohenberg wrote: Being -10 in highsec already has consequences. It limits your gameplay options. On my -10 characters I can do a couple of things. I can move through highsec but I can never stop moving. So all I'm really limited to doing is just more ganking.
If I want to do things like suspect bait then I need to buy tags for 300m. So now my security status is high enough to have unhindered movement. If I gank again I have to decide if I'm going to limit the amount of things I aggress or do I go all out and get back to -5 within a few hours. A few pods later and that 300m tag purchase is gone.
Well, for starters, you didn't have to become -10 in the first place, it was your choice, so accept the consequnces. Want to pvp without limits - go to nullsec (and lowsec to a degree). However, with lowsec having the same silly sec penalties as hisec, I can't say that arguing for restrictions towards pirate char's movement in hisec is reasonable (unless there is a massive re-work of sec status hits in high/lowsec).
Furthermore, notice how nothing I've proposed would impact pod ganking or solo/small group indy ganking we know today. Hell, it wouldn't even impact miner ganking (which is gameplay of questionable quality but ok, I can see how at least providing some interaction to miners might not be the worst thing out there).
The only thing that would change is the ability to perform the bumping-enabled freighter/capital ganks we have atm. However, my proposals would not render freighter ganks impossible, far from it. They would just be more demanding and consequence laden - as they should be. Why would that be a bad thing, I still don't understand.
What I always find amusing is spinning the narative - making it sound like I want ganking removed, theme-park like hisec etc. Seriously, some of your buddies sound more like whiny carebears then whiny carebears themselves. |

Puddsy
Puddsy Corp Phoebe Freeport Republic
9
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Posted - 2015.11.05 23:16:23 -
[112] - Quote
Heya, I'm Puddsy, one of New Eden's top haulers right now. I deal heavily within EVE's hauling community, on the contractor and contractee sides equally.
Flying a freighter should NOT be a risk free ordeal. I should not be able to put my entire savings into a single ship and undock with no consequences. That said, I think flying a freighter (in highsec) is currently too risky. We're seeing a sharp shift towards DST and BR contracts in the Haulers Channel, as well as NEE's recent change to their freighter service.
Here's what I think is wrong:
1) It's really, really, REALLY easy to bump a freighter. I've done it a few times. If you don't believe me, buy any T1 BS, fit an MWD and some nanos to it, then sit on a gate in the jita -> amarr pipe for a few minutes trying it. I've done it in an Abaddon.
2) A freighter can be killed for a small fraction of the cost it takes to build one. it costs what, 50 mil to kill a freighter? That's 20-some catas, at least. If killing a freighter cost a few hundred mil, people would be less inclined to do it. They wouldn't stop, but I think they'd do it less.
3) There's no good way to escape being bumped aside from using a webber and hoping you don't get bumped before you warp.
4) Freighters have more use OUTSIDE highsec than in it. Less so now that IHubs are 60k m3.
Here's what I think is good:
1) Freighters CAN die. If they were invincible, everyone would fly one. Like I mentioned above, i don't think that freighters should be allowed to move around with no risk. Something something sandbox.
2) Freighters have more moving power than any other ship. A million m3 is a lot. They are also the only ship that can drop outposts.
3) Freighters are like baby JFs. I like JFs. I own 3, soon 4. Freighters and JFs are the lifeblood of EVE's economy. Changing them changes the core aspects of how the game's economy works. They do need a change, though.
Anyway, that about gets across what I wanted to say. It's not exactly the bumping needs a nerf, I think it's more than hauling needs a buff.
Also: JFs are not invincible, don't try that with me. I can write a VERY detailed and specific guide on how to hunt and catch a JF if you want. This is why I think freighters should not be invincible.
Thanks,
-Puddsy
-Puddsy
CEO of Puddsy Corp
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Sasha Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling CODE.
24
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Posted - 2015.11.06 04:23:45 -
[113] - Quote
Puddsy let me break down the cost of ganking freighters So In a perfect scenario which is in a pulled .5 system
Triple anti-tanked freighter - 14 cats or 112m Default ehp freighter - 18 cats or 142m Bulkhead freighter 22-26 cats or 176-208m All above cats are tech 2 And this is only doable when there's 0 opposition. Now this is pretty cheap but you need that many cankers to make it that cheap
Now for worst case scenario on say a fat whale in a .8 system unpulled We would be looking at 12-20 talos depending on fitting Which is 1440m-2400m The only time we would see a 50m cost puddsy is if the gank fleet has 30 people in t1 cats |

Puddsy
Puddsy Corp Phoebe Freeport Republic
10
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Posted - 2015.11.06 17:50:07 -
[114] - Quote
Sasha Cohenberg wrote:Puddsy let me break down the cost of ganking freighters So In a perfect scenario which is in a pulled .5 system
Triple anti-tanked freighter - 14 cats or 112m Default ehp freighter - 18 cats or 142m Bulkhead freighter 22-26 cats or 176-208m All above cats are tech 2 And this is only doable when there's 0 opposition. Now this is pretty cheap but you need that many cankers to make it that cheap
Now for worst case scenario on say a fat whale in a .8 system unpulled We would be looking at 12-20 talos depending on fitting Which is 1440m-2400m The only time we would see a 50m cost puddsy is if the gank fleet has 30 people in t1 cats
Thanks for breaking that down for me. I kinda just pulled a number out of my ass.
I've put it in my notes for future reference.
-Puddsy
CEO of Puddsy Corp
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Avi Shekelstien
New Order Logistics CODE.
41
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Posted - 2015.11.06 18:29:35 -
[115] - Quote
Just pay your local friendly agent of the new order 10 million Isk and enjoy a gank free second job. *disclaimer* being afk will invalidate said permit. |

Samwise Everquest
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
148
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Posted - 2015.11.06 18:36:03 -
[116] - Quote
I would like to see a mechanic added where I can fill a Iteron V with explosives and self destruct it causing significant damage to everyone around me.
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps looking for work. Pras Phil.
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ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
201
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Posted - 2015.11.06 22:08:31 -
[117] - Quote
Quote: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
This thread is beyond repair. Locked.
~ISD Buldath
Interstellar Services Department
Support, Training and Resources Division
Lt. Commander
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