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The real logoff guide.

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Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:31:00 - [1] Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 17:38:33 I'm fairly **ed at people logging out of everything lately, so I will write up exactly how this game mechanic works. The general idea is that knowledge is power, and once this gets abused consistently enough, CCP will do something about it. Part A - what makes logoff tactics possible. 1. Aggro timers. Every time you get shot at while logged on you get an aggression timer of 15 minutes. That means, your ship attempts an emergency warp of 1 million km and disappears from space after 15 minutes. Note the bold part. If you log off before you get fired at, and you get shot at while already logged off, you do not get the 15 minute aggro timer, so regardless if you warp or not, you will disappear after 1 minute. 2. Cloaking time at gates. Every time you jump into a system, you are cloaked for 30 seconds, which gives you enough time to analyze the situation. If there is a hostile force present, you can log out before they get a chance to see you or fire at you, meaning that you won't get the 15 minute aggro timer, but only the 1 minute, and if your ship survives for more than a minute, you will disappear from space and be safe. 3. Massive HP boosts. Ever since RMR came out, HP of all ships got boosted, since kali HP got boosted again. The logoff problem always existed, but it was mostly not so important, it was easier to kill the ships, because they didn't have that much HP. Now, a ship can easily survive for a minute, just due to the massive amount of hitpoints. 4. Bubbles being bugged. Any ship can enter emergency warp within a warp bubble, be it an anchored bubble or from an interdictor. If you try to warp out of it manually, it will say that you are within the bubble, yet if you just log out, the emergency warp will ignore the bubble and warp you out. Now let's abuse all these four game mechanics. Part B** - real world usage scenarios. 1. The bubblecamp Let's say you are lazy, stupid and fly through 0.0 without scout for some odd reason in a battleship, you have a bunch of stabs, but that's about it. You are even too lazy to open the map, show average ships destroyed and/or average pilots in space to check your route. You jump into a camp with an interdictor and a bunch of cruisers. You are stabbed up, so you can't fight them, they'd destroy you before you could lock them. What to do? log out... Here is what happens: a) You are cloaked, and do not have an aggro timer yet, you log out BEFORE they fire on you, so you only get a 1 minute timer, not a 15 minute one. It's important to log as soon as possible, so they don't get a chance to shoot at you before you are logged off. b) The bubble of the interdictor is bugged, and since you are stabbed up they might not have enough points on you, and they can't probe you either, since you'll disappear fairly fast if you manage to emergency warp out. c) IF they do manage to get more points on you than you have stabs - there is another challenge they have to overcome, they have to gank your ship in under 1 minute, otherwise you just magically disappear, and you will be safe until you log on the next time. This is not that unlikely to succeed, since double HP boosts from rmr+kali. All about target jamming
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:32:00 - [2] Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 17:38:06 2. The beltratter gank Let's say you are complete retard and don't look at local when ratting. Even with the new standings in local which make it uber easy to identify the dangers with just one glance. Or perhaps the **** on the second monitor is just too good at that moment, it happens. You notice a neutral or hostile ship coming out of warp in your belt. Since the WCS nerf, you don't have any wcs fitted and you can't cloak because you are locked by npc's... what to do? Log out as soon as possible, BEFORE he targets you (advanced tactics - quickly put your rep/shield booster on before you do). What happens: a) If his locktime is really slow, you might be able to enter emergency warp. b) If he scrambles you, he will have 1 minute to bring his friends or kill you on his own... You are npcing in a tanked ship, so you should be able to survive for 1 minute. Then you will just disappear, wait like 30 minutes, log back in and continue npcing. If he is still in local, turn on your hardeners while you are warping back in and log out again. 3. The invincishuttle(tm) Here is how you can never die in 0.0. Take a shuttle, an alt is enough. Go through 0.0. a) If you warp into a bubble - log off, shuttles damn near instawarp, you will be safe. b) If you jump into a bubble - log off, you can't be scrambled fast enough and emergency warp works when in bubbles. Part C - Summary I think i now outlined how to effectively use logoff tactics, if you want to solo win eve or you are too lazy to watch local when you are npcing or check the map when you are travelling. I generally don't consider myself a carebear, neither do I approve of any of these tactics, but the more people know about this, the more people abuse this, the more obvious it should become to CCP that this is breaking the game very badly at the moment. ECM WCS ravens got nerfed because they were iwin buttons (I used to fly one), I wonder when logoff tactics will be nerfed... All about target jamming
implanted Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:40:00 - [3] The "logoffski" is very frowned upon by us pvp,ers and i personaly havnt used it yet....and i say yet because more and more people are doing it all the time because of you the OP er keep telling everyone.if CCP dont sort this out somehow (dunno how thos cos could be legitamate crash and how do you differentiate)i will use it myself along with a lot of other players.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:44:00 - [4] I am a pvper, the only reason I play eve is because of it's complex pvp. As soon as everyone will start using this, there will be a very large outroar in the eve community, and CCP will be forced to do something about this. The faster that happens, the better for us pvpers. All about target jamming
Wizzkidy	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:47:00 - [5] Originally by: implanted The "logoffski" is very frowned upon by us pvp,ers wrong, a lot of pvp'ers use it all the time. I won't mention certain alliance names though
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:48:00 - [6] Aggro timers and bugged bubbles / spheres are the real problems. Bubbles and spheres should lay on full scramble the moment a ship enters it, even if it jumps in cloaked. And aggro timers are the most annoying thing. If I get a scramble on before the ship warps off, it should be mine, whether the pilot is there or not.
Moominer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.02 17:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Ryysa As soon as everyone will start using this, there will be a very large outroar in the eve community. It's already common place. All aspects of CTRL-Qing (not just the bubble-loggers) need fixing, as soon as possible. Nowadays it's a breath of fresh air to see someone actually stay in local for more than 10 seconds when you jump in. Hostile! CTRL-Q CTRL-Q CTRL-Q ...
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:04:00 - [8] Yes, but I haven't seen a complete forum post yet. Trust me, I am more than aware of the current status of 0.0. All about target jamming
Kyria Timeyu	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:04:00 - [9] Because everybody should be forced to fight your gank groups 1 vs 10 right? Because that's proper PvP, killing somebody without having a single shot fired back.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:06:00 - [10] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2007 18:08:24 Originally by: Kyria Timeyu Because everybody should be forced to fight your gank groups 1 vs 10 right? Because that's proper PvP, killing somebody without having a single shot fired back. Say this to yourself fifty thousand times. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual. PvP in EVE is not consensual... -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)

implanted Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:11:00 - [11] people like the idi.....er person above me p me off.u jump in bubble there u die if u cant be ars ed to get a scout.simple
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:18:00 - [12] Edited by: DarkMatter on 02/01/2007 18:17:56 Problem is, I view alt scouting as much of an exploit as logging... Using a shuttle alt to scout is metagaming just as much as logging is. It's an exploit of game mechanics to use a disposable alt to make sure the way is clear for your main and his/her BS. I'm not defending logging, but those that decree you're stupid for not using alt scouts can bite me, you're cheating too... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:18:00 - [13] exactly, if you don't want to pvp, don't leave highsec. EvE has a starter/industrial zone which prevents people who do not wish to engage in pvp to not be ganked/killed and play a safe game they enjoy. Nothing wrong with being a research or industrialist person in EvE, it's all possible, almost perfectly safe. If you want access to the better npc's, better ores and the moon mining products and starbases of lowsec and 0.0 you must fight for your right to be there. It sortof makes sense. The only time you will be ganked 10v1 in this game is when you are too lazy. You deserve to die for being lazy. The people put in an effort to kill you, there's 10 people to kill one of you, compare risk-reward and time spent across the people. Anyhow, I can't be arsed to discuss the validity of "should you be ganked if you jump into a camp/pvp situation in a pvp free environment unprepared". The answer is yes, every time, there is no discussion needed on that subject, it just is that way in this game, it's a fact not an opinion. So please stop discussing that - this thread, believe it or not, is meant as an informative source for people of how to log off most efficiently and save your ass in combat situations, so that CCP does something about it. All about target jamming
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Kyria Timeyu Because everybody should be forced to fight your gank groups 1 vs 10 right? Because that's proper PvP, killing somebody without having a single shot fired back. Reality check. Ferox which later died with a pair of WCS fitted, logging from an interceptor. Spot my blob. It was in the middle of the night, and I was the only one online in corp, with the whole of northern Syndicate all to myself and a few docked AFK people. These things take around 6 minutes to kill this way, assuming you are not nossed and droned in the first 30 seconds, and assuming their blob doesn't show up. I think a few unscouted haulers might have to die in the interests of this sort of fight having a point. Otherwise it's either me getting owned or "Damn, forgot to refill my drone bay, exiting..."
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Originally by: Kyria Timeyu Because everybody should be forced to fight your gank groups 1 vs 10 right? Because that's proper PvP, killing somebody without having a single shot fired back. Reality check. Ferox which later died with a pair of WCS fitted, logging from an interceptor. Spot my blob. It was in the middle of the night, and I was the only one online in corp, with the whole of northern Syndicate all to myself and a few docked AFK people. These things take around 6 minutes to kill this way, assuming you are not nossed and droned in the first 30 seconds, and assuming their blob doesn't show up. I think a few unscouted haulers might have to die in the interests of this sort of fight having a point. Otherwise it's either me getting owned or "Damn, forgot to refill my drone bay, exiting..." Don't you know for convince all PVP involving an amount of aggressors > 0 = Blob Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Insidious 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:38:00 - [16] Edited by: Insidious on 02/01/2007 18:39:32 it is a trend with npc'ers and travelers
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:38:00 - [17] Quote: EvE has a starter/industrial zone which prevents people who do not wish to engage in pvp to not be ganked/killed and play a safe game they enjoy. Nothing wrong with being a research or industrialist person in EvE, it's all possible, almost perfectly safe. Tell that to those in high sec who have been suicide ganked and/or corp war griefed... There is Non-consensual PvP in high-sec as well... So for every asshat carbear that logs from a gate-camp, there is a asshat ganker in high sec to keep up the balance... Both sides have their asshats Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 17:38:33 The general idea is that knowledge is power, and once this gets abused consistently enough, CCP will do something about it. At least someone with a brain :) Cheers to you ;)
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:44:00 - [19] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 02/01/2007 18:41:17 Quote: EvE has a starter/industrial zone which prevents people who do not wish to engage in pvp to not be ganked/killed and play a safe game they enjoy. Nothing wrong with being a research or industrialist person in EvE, it's all possible, almost perfectly safe. Tell that to those in high sec who have been suicide ganked and/or corp war griefed... There is Non-consensual PvP in high-sec as well... So for every asshat carbear that logs from a gate-camp, there is an asshat ganker in high sec to keep up the balance... Both sides have their asshats Thanks for the tip captain obvious. Did you read the "almost" i underlined and bolded it especially for you to read. The reason this "almost" was put in, so that people don't say BUT THERE IS HIGHSEC GANKING. Yes ofcourse i know there is highsec ganking. It has nothing to do with the subject nor post at hand, except for logging out in highsec from empire wars. All about target jamming
Cougem Defile. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:49:00 - [20] Why don't they change the 1 minute timer (if you aren't aggro'd) to a 15 min timer? If you crash then surely you'll be back within a minute anyway so it doesn't matter?

Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.02 18:56:00 - [21] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2007 18:55:54 Originally by: Cougem Why don't they change the 1 minute timer (if you aren't aggro'd) to a 15 min timer? If you crash then surely you'll be back within a minute anyway so it doesn't matter? Because if you aren't aggroed, you should be able to safely quit EVE. If there was a blanket 15-minute timer regardless, then you would be completely unable to log out in space safely as 15 minutes is plenty of time to scan someone down and kill them. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:18:00 - [22] Edited by: Forum Joe on 02/01/2007 19:18:34 Originally by: Dark Shikari PvP in EVE is not consensual. Yes, absolutly. However : A : You do not have to ask a potential target to allow you to kill him. B : You do not have to ask a potential attacker to allow you to avoid him. I repeat : PvP in EvE is NOT consensual. Starting PvP in EvE is NOT consensual. Avoiding PvP in EvE is NOT consensual. Hey guys : how does it feel being like a two day old newb in his rookie frig? How does it feel to be the victim of a situation where you cannot do anything about the way another player has decided to play? Excuse me, but what do you guys always say when a two day old newb comes and whine about being forced into PvP? Isn't it something like "live with it", "Adapt or die", "Can I have your stuff", "Don't let the door hit you", and other garbage like that? I enjoy this thread A LOT. Look at them. Look at all those "tuff guys", "Bad boyz", "uber PvPers", "Elite of EvE". Look at them whining at CCP like little kids who's candy has been taken away from them. "Oh please CCP do this! CCP do that! CCP stop this! CCP stop that!" Ahahahah ! Go on, please, go on, it's a nice show of yourselves you guys are making, absolutly fantastic
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 19:35:00 - [23] Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 19:39:30 Starting pvp is fairly consensual, every time you enter lowsec / 0.0, you are hit with a warning message, unless you turn it off. Well, there's other types of pvp, like market competition and trading and stuff. There's no need to whine for nerfs imo, It's easier to inform everyone of how to use the most imbalanced tactics that humanly need nerfing (where the majority agrees upon). But i said that already in the opening of the post :) I prefer to let other people do the whining, I can't say I disagree with it, but being radical about things hardly solves anything. In EvE, over the past years everything clings back into place eventually - imba stuff gets nerfed, weak stuff gets boosted etc. Just a matter of time. There are much better ways of bringing things to dev's attention than saying OMG I CANT KILL MY TARGET OHNOES. Surely, pvp in it's current state is not what the devs intended it to be. There are out of the box, non-intended things that happen based on creatively using game mechanics. And there is stuff that abuses game mechanics. [center]All about target jamming - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=453926The logof
Andriela	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:04:00 - [24] Originally by: Forum Joe I enjoy this thread A LOT. Look at them. Look at all those "tuff guys", "Bad boyz", "uber PvPers", "Elite of EvE". Look at them whining at CCP like little kids who's candy has been taken away from them. "Oh please CCP do this! CCP do that! CCP stop this! CCP stop that!" Ahahahah ! Go on, please, go on, it's a nice show of yourselves you guys are making, absolutly fantastic +1 m8! Same here! Then whey are telling you it's not fair and you are alone and they do have 20+ ships on the gates - it's really funny And please, stop asking CCP to remove it, whey not gonna remove it, cause ... not gonna tell you, use your brain guys, at list try to do it
SerialTurd	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:07:00 - [25] One possible solution,and I'm sure it has been mentioned before is to use the "safe haven" log out rule. I believe SWG had this in play. Basically it says if your not a "safe haven" i.e. your house or hotel, if you log off, your charcter remains in game for 10 minutes (not the exact number). If you are in those safe areas and log off, your charcter will be in game for only 1 minute. So how do we apply this to eve. If your in a station, and you log off, your ship is logged out instantly and your good to go. No problems there. If your in a shield from an outpost, then your in a safe havent and can log off. Your ship will remain in the shield for X amount of time before warping. If your any where else, your not in a safe area, and your ship will remain there for 10-15 minutes. This pretty much solves the problem of the logoffski. I can see certain problem arising from logging off in a shield area. A shield area from an output could be considered safe, but no where near as safe as a station. An example if this rule was in play would be lets say your outpost comes under attack. You warp in to defend it and are immediatly targeted. Seeing as your out gunned you decide to do the ol' loggofski. Being that your inside your outposts shields, you immediatly warp away and are safe and sound. To combat that, instead of maybe a low minute timer a 5 minute timer could be in play before warping your ship out. Long story short, if your anywhere in 0.0 space besides a shield from an outpost or a station and you log off, your ship should remain in game for 10 minutes at least. Of course there's the scenario of, what about if my game crashes. Well if your game crashes, and you lose your ship from that, as long as you can provide CCP with sufficient evidence of your game crashing and your ship loss, they should reimburse you for it. Not the best plan but a descent one i think.
Basileus	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:10:00 - [26] Ah. Is it time for the gate campers to whine again?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Forum Joe Excuse me, but what do you guys always say when a two day old newb comes and whine about being forced into PvP? Isn't it something like "live with it", "Adapt or die", "Can I have your stuff", "Don't let the door hit you", and other garbage like that? Nobody can force you to go to low security space. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Bazuka	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Ryysa I am a pvper, the only reason I play eve is because of it's complex pvp. Um hum , gatecamping is soooo complex and complicated...and ummmm... exiting PVP...yeah. Your tactic aint gonna work too you know. Becouse no mater how much the whining number increase of you self-proclaimed-EvE-vets it will never be the majority....unless 50+% of EVE players start camping gates...which are the players who whine right? The gatecampers ? I dont ever hear people that hate gatecamping and think its the most ghey play style ever invented ( and called PvP never the less heh ) complain about this. And thats what...90% ? 91% ? more ? Its very cool to hear the gankers cry you know , so I hope these "logoffski"threads go on and on and on and on... Very entertaining.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:15:00 - [29] As much as I am tempted to insult your altaccount and spelling, I'll refrain from doing it ;) There is a very compelling reason not to remove this as it is currently, because if someone honestly crashes after jumping, and their ship dies, they'll be ****ed also =/ All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:15:00 - [30] DS wins this thread. -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]

Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:17:00 - [31] Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 20:19:54 Originally by: Bazuka Originally by: Ryysa I am a pvper, the only reason I play eve is because of it's complex pvp. Um hum , gatecamping is soooo complex and complicated...and ummmm... exiting PVP...yeah. Your tactic aint gonna work too you know. Becouse no mater how much the whining number increase of you self-proclaimed-EvE-vets it will never be the majority....unless 50+% of EVE players start camping gates...which are the players who whine right? The gatecampers ? I dont ever hear people that hate gatecamping and think its the most ghey play style ever invented ( and called PvP never the less heh ) complain about this. And thats what...90% ? 91% ? more ? Its very cool to hear the gankers cry you know , so I hope these "logoffski"threads go on and on and on and on... Very entertaining. Dude i don't give a ** about gatecamping, out of my entire eve career i maybe spent 4 hours gate camping, I think it's the worst kind of pvp. Let's make it clear, I DONT GIVE A FLYING ABOUT GATECAMPING. ok ? capiche? But if you go into a belt ALONE vastly outclassed against a battleship or battlecruiser with your inty, and he just logs off because he knows you can never kill him within 1 minute, that's where the game is broken. It's not about GATECAMPS, a big gatecamp will gank whatever goes through it within 1 minute easy, gate camps don't have a problem with this. I am just tired of retards coming to forums with alt accounts who are most likely carebears who only heard from forums how dangerous 0.0 is, who have NO clue how to play the game and whine all day on forums how they get ganked and how 0.0 is not accessible. I am personally not part of any alliance, I have NBSI policy and i only have a small 200 man entity blue to me out of the entire eve universe, yet I have no problem going wherever i want to. It's called experience, and knowledge of game mechanics. Now if all you alttrolls would kindly ** off from this thread, because the point of this thread is not to discuss whether logging off is broken or not, the point is to show people exactly how it works, no more, no less. So if you want to flame GTFO and find another thread to post in, I did not create this forum thread pro- or against logofftactics, it's meant as an informative post. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Moominer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:24:00 - [32] Ryysa speaks the truth, CTRL-Q effects so much more than bubblecamps, and that's what people are missing. ___ Hostile! CTRL-Q CTRL-Q CTRL-Q ... This well proven theory confirms LOGOFFSKI = 12+15+7+15+6+6+19+11+9 = 100% WIN!
Tanis Bastar Caldari Interstitial Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:26:00 - [33] I think logoffski is lame and have never done it, but every now and then when I jump through gates my client freezes in mid-jump, so that all I can see is that I'm in the new system, but nothing else--overview, local, everything is blank. The only way to fix the problem is to close and reopen the client. When I relog I am in the new system near the gate. My question is what other players see when my client freezes--I would hate for them to see me in overview, see me disappear, and assume that I logged--anyone know?
Bazuka	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:27:00 - [34] Originally by: Moominer Ryysa speaks the truth, CTRL-Q effects so much more than bubblecamps, and that's what people are missing. Maybe..but check out the last 5 or so "logoffski" threads. They all come from gatecampers.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:29:00 - [35] Originally by: Bazuka Originally by: Moominer Ryysa speaks the truth, CTRL-Q effects so much more than bubblecamps, and that's what people are missing. Maybe..but check out the last 5 or so "logoffski" threads. They all come from gatecampers. That's because there are two seperate "logoffski" problems. The first is bubbles (interdictor and regular) not affecting logoffs. The second is people logging before aggro timer and their ship disappearing. They are related, but totally separate problems. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:31:00 - [36] I can only dream of having a 20+ ship blob. It is the exclamation marks in this thread that are being unconstructive, not the complaining PVPers. I was a noob once, and I was ganked like a noob. Hauler and pod to CA inties. Check. Hauler to F-E gatecamp that was supposed to be blue. Check. Hauler to a gate spawn. Check. Hauler, pod and set of +3s in Amamake. Check. (In my defence, the server crashed and when it rebooted, warped me to spot from which my carefully prepared insta was just off). Needless to say I have also had many narrow escapes during my hauling period. I also narrowly escaped getting my Absolution ganked by MC in 1-SMEB. It would have been a stupid way to die, but when I jumped in, I fought rather than logged. This is why when I hear people declare their "right" to close the client the moment a situation turns bad, I feel such contempt. Not because I because I yearn for carebear blood, but because I have been there and can handle it, and if other people can't throw the same chips into the pot, they can leave the table.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:32:00 - [37] Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 20:32:23 @ DS - I believe, I pointed that out in my first post :o All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Bazuka	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:33:00 - [38] Ok , but the whining needs to stop sometimes you know. Write to the devs or somethin. Its the "vets" that allways scream ADAPT !!! and similar.. so how about you guys that have a problem with cry babies logging off adapt and DONT engage a ship you cant take out within a minute ?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:36:00 - [39] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2007 20:37:29 Originally by: Bazuka adapt and DONT engage a ship you cant take out within a minute ? ... First you tell us that gatecamping is bad and blobbing is stupid, and then you tell us to only engage ships we can kill in one minute? Guess the only way to effectively kill ships in one minute... You blob them with a gatecamp -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Bazuka adapt and DONT engage a ship you cant take out within a minute ? Interceptor vs elite industrial. Oh damn. Out of my league now.

Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:38:00 - [41] Originally by: Bazuka Ok , but the whining needs to stop sometimes you know. Write to the devs or somethin. Its the "vets" that allways scream ADAPT !!! and similar.. so how about you guys that have a problem with cry babies logging off adapt and DONT engage a ship you cant take out within a minute ? So writing a guide on the logoffski and the mechanics behind it is not adapting?
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Bazuka Ok , but the whining needs to stop sometimes you know. Write to the devs or somethin. Its the "vets" that allways scream ADAPT !!! and similar.. so how about you guys that have a problem with cry babies logging off adapt and DONT engage a ship you cant take out within a minute ? oh, well, that's the reason that there are so many 20+ man blobs roaming around, because otherwise you just can't kill **** anymore. I doubt you like 20+ man blobs, yet you tell us to adapt, and we do adapt. And as i said before, the gatecampers don't really have a big problem, they have lots of the high damage gank ships, they can take out the target in like 20 seconds np. It's the people who don't actually gank at gates who get hurt the most, you must realize that. The current status with the logoffski actually makes people camp more with lots of people, rather than hunt around in wolfpacks. Less wolfpacks hunting around = less fun small scale pvp. I guess you never thought of it this way, have you? All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:51:00 - [43] The thing the loggers dont seem to realize is that people DO adapt and you are back at square one. So why not just grow a brain and avoid the camp entirely? Fix logging. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
testteyst	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:53:00 - [44] ok can someone explain how a corp mate lost his raven the other night then plz 1 hostile in local, he decides to risk it and warps to a gate, more hostiles entered local, he scanned the gate ahead of him and see a dictor and camp, realises he is in trouble, then POOF crashes out of EVE, Internet/router is down. Manages to log back in around 20minutes later and he is in his new sexy clone. This is because they probed out his ship after he had emergency warped... or?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:55:00 - [45] Originally by: testteyst ok can someone explain how a corp mate lost his raven the other night then plz 1 hostile in local, he decides to risk it and warps to a gate, more hostiles entered local, he scanned the gate ahead of him and see a dictor and camp, realises he is in trouble, then POOF crashes out of EVE, Internet/router is down. Manages to log back in around 20minutes later and he is in his new sexy clone. This is because they probed out his ship after he had emergency warped... or? If you disconnect, you DO NOT get the same benefit as if you had logged off. If you disconnect, the servers wait 30-60 seconds before they count you as having logged off, in case its just a bad case of lag. If you log off, you INSTANTLY are counted as having logged off. This means that if you disconnect, you actually fare much worse than if you had simply logged -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Shinoobie E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:55:00 - [46] Originally by: Bazuka Ok , but the whining needs to stop sometimes you know. Write to the devs or somethin. Its the "vets" that allways scream ADAPT !!! and similar.. This guys is absolute quality. Prime example of not thinking before posting. BTW, we are writing to the DEVS, this is how the community can communicate with the DEVS via this forum for discussion. Also VETS do adapt to any given change. Except where there is no alternative to adapt to. Originally by: Bazuka so how about you guys that have a problem with cry babies logging off adapt and DONT engage a ship you cant take out within a minute ? If we adapt to this, then there will be virtually no PVP in EVE aside from blobs and gatecamps as DS has already pointed out. But this is lame for you, so there is no PVP in EVE. Ho hum Elite Scouting
Wylbur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:07:00 - [47] Edited by: Wylbur on 02/01/2007 21:09:39 Edited by: Wylbur on 02/01/2007 21:08:20 Logoffski is an adaption. Jita is an adaptation. Many other things that are noted in this forum are adaptations. You can fix the symptoms, but that will not cure the illness. The unlying caused of some of these issues are known. Wether they are a problem or not is for someone above my paygrade to decide. Why logoffski? Because people don't want to loss their stuff. Eve's death penalty is very harsh. Players adapt to avoid it. Change things and another adaptation will appear until the underlying cause is addressed. It does not help that the Eve community is filled with people who revel in others misery. There are many solution, but they would result in a huge amount of whining. -----------------------------------------------
Ld Adfrex	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:26:00 - [48] Simple solution me thinks - a) Add a section to the map which lists ships in the vicinity of a gate i.e. people could judge if a gate camp is there or not (or a look ahead before the jump) b) Add a hook on the logout which stops an emergency warp out. A Crashed client would not execute such a sequence LD Out
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:28:00 - [49] lies, the real guide is in my sig 1000% awesome guide to logging out
Wylbur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:30:00 - [50] Originally by: Ld Adfrex Simple solution me thinks - a) Add a section to the map which lists ships in the vicinity of a gate i.e. people could judge if a gate camp is there or not (or a look ahead before the jump) b) Add a hook on the logout which stops an emergency warp out. A Crashed client would not execute such a sequence LD Out I like suggestion a. Adaptation to suggestion b, pull network cable. -----------------------------------------------

Moominer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:13:00 - [51] Originally by: Wylbur It does not help that the Eve community is filled with people who revel in others misery. There are many solution, but they would result in a huge amount of whining. The last I looked, under 0.4 space EVE is hostile, you enter it at your own risk, and, like it or not "reveling in others misery" is entirely part of this wonderfully brutal game. You even get a popup box informing you of this fact when you try and enter 0.4 or below. Not wanting to get killed in 0.4->0.0 is absolutely no excuse not to fix CTRL-Q abuse, which can currently get you out of 99% of non-consentual PvP situations. If you don't want to get killed, heed the warnings the game gives you and use common sense, rather than making ****ty excuses to dumb down the more brutal aspects of EVE. ___ Hostile! CTRL-Q CTRL-Q CTRL-Q ... This well proven theory confirms LOGOFFSKI = 12+15+7+15+6+6+19+11+9 = 100% WIN!
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:41:00 - [52] Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 02/01/2007 23:42:43 I like how the mindboggingly bad justification for logging off doesn't even work mechanically. Logging is great at avoiding lots of things, but sizeable gatecamps isn't one of them - those will vaporize your non-capitalship in under 60 seconds and have enough points or ram you to keep you in place. You wouldn't know though, because you're not logged in when it's happening -_-
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg You wouldn't know though, because you're not logged in when it's happening -_- All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg You wouldn't know though, because you're not logged in when it's happening -_- also -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:07:00 - [55] why has this post not been deleted yet. Its explaining how to expilot they delete macro treads so why not this. Your idea to enable every1 to know how to do this is in hope it will get fixed is just stupid, all you doing is adding to the problem. \|- Insert witty sig here -\| Save Radar Scanner Man!
Nikla Uthaan Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Moominer The last I looked, under 0.4 space EVE is hostile, you enter it at your own risk, and, like it or not "reveling in others misery" is entirely part of this wonderfully brutal game. If i dont want to die, i dont go to low sec. If I go to low sec, I *** my knuckles, put on my yarr-suit and hope for the best. People who log off me off just as much as the people who unplug their connection at the start of an RTS game when they land a map or team who they arent good at playing against just to maintain a pristine record. ----------------- One word,, emo,,, The Mishing** is an ethnic group in the districts of North Lakhimpur, Sonitput, Dhemaji, Dibrugarh, Sibsagar, Jorhat, Golaghat, Tinsukia of Assam.
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:38:00 - [57] Originally by: SasRipper why has this post not been deleted yet. Its explaining how to expilot they delete macro treads so why not this. Your idea to enable every1 to know how to do this is in hope it will get fixed is just stupid, all you doing is adding to the problem. Because according to CCP it's not an exploit. What CCP need to to is change it so that after you log out people have 30 seconds to get you aggressed for 15 minutes, and for those 30 seconds if you have a cloak it shouldn't deactivate btw. Cormack's Power diag
Jimmy Dolittle	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:48:00 - [58] Originally by: Dark Shikari If you disconnect, the servers wait 30-60 seconds before they count you as having logged off, in case its just a bad case of lag. If you log off, you INSTANTLY are counted as having logged off. This means that if you disconnect, you actually fare much worse than if you had simply logged Based on this post it sounds like ôLogoffskiö is exploiting a bug. But it seems like there is a good reason to have warp away, we saw it numerous times in the tournament, the client/connection is not 100% stable. I think it bites to have a game crash and loose your ship and pod. The problem is how does the game recognize a genuine crash from a deliberate act of evasion. As long as you can unplug your Internet connection, I donÆt see how they can differentiate.
DR HK	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:23:00 - [59] Edited by: DR HK on 03/01/2007 02:26:16 Simple if you are camping a gate and a ship warps in that you can easly kill/disable dont kill it strait away,people only log because they dont want to loose everything.If you gave them the chance to pay tax then you wouldnt be in such a bad situation.If you give people no other option they will choose the easy way out.Poor tatics on the gate camps part.
Wylbur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:34:00 - [60] Originally by: Moominer Originally by: Wylbur It does not help that the Eve community is filled with people who revel in others misery. There are many solution, but they would result in a huge amount of whining. The last I looked, under 0.4 space EVE is hostile, you enter it at your own risk, and, like it or not "reveling in others misery" is entirely part of this wonderfully brutal game. What I discribed is clinical Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e. sociopath). It is not a part of the game; it is a mental illness. Anyone fitting this description would more wisely spend their money on professional treatment. I understand how the game is played. I have been playing for more than three years. I have spent many months living in low sec. -----------------------------------------------

Zeke Novak	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:40:00 - [61] As long as pirates keep trying to grief me in belts, I'll log off to deprive them of their kill if I can. As a general rule though, if I end up in a bubble, I'm looking for a fight, so no worries there
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:41:00 - [62] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 03/01/2007 02:41:07 Originally by: Wylbur What I discribed is clinical Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e. sociopath). It is not a part of the game; it is a mental illness. Anyone fitting this description would more wisely spend their money on professional treatment. Anyone who resorts to insulting their opponents by accusing them of having mental disorders has far worse problems than they can imagine. Please don't use real life insults in EVE. They can only lead to bannination. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Wylbur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:47:00 - [63] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 03/01/2007 02:41:07 Originally by: Wylbur What I discribed is clinical Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e. sociopath). It is not a part of the game; it is a mental illness. Anyone fitting this description would more wisely spend their money on professional treatment. Anyone who resorts to insulting their opponents by accusing them of having mental disorders has far worse problems than they can imagine. Please don't use real life insults in EVE. They can only lead to bannination. That was not an insult. It was not directed at a particular person. It was a general statement of fact. Given the statistics, at least 600 playing Eve at any given time have APD. Likely more given that Eve does not discourage that type of behavior. -----------------------------------------------
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:51:00 - [64] Originally by: Wylbur That was not an insult. It was not directed at a particular person. It was a general statement of fact. Given the statistics, at least 600 playing Eve at any given time have APD. Likely more given that Eve does not discourage that type of behavior. So anyone who enjoys defeating other people in a game has a mental disorder? -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Wylbur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:35:00 - [65] Originally by: Dark Shikari So anyone who enjoys defeating other people in a game has a mental disorder? No, not at all. Defeating your opponent, NPC or PC, is a major part of most games. Competition is natural. -----------------------------------------------
Awox I Fought Piranhas	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:35:00 - [66] <3 Ryysa (yes, even if he is a mean bastard) I am of the opinion however, that the more people to abuse this tactic, the less likely CCP will change it.
Kaaln Gallente Soar Angelic	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:54:00 - [67] Originally by: Forum Joe Edited by: Forum Joe on 02/01/2007 19:18:34 Originally by: Dark Shikari PvP in EVE is not consensual. Hey guys : how does it feel being like a two day old newb in his rookie frig? How does it feel to be the victim of a situation where you cannot do anything about the way another player has decided to play? The rookie still made the choice of coming to low sec. He chose to play in the same arena as people who are experienced. It's not like once you logon for the first time, you are thrust out the station in 0.0 sec. There's a reason the security status indicator becomes more red the deeper into low sec you go.
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2007.01.03 07:12:00 - [68] nothing a cloak can't fix its extremly satisifying as your t1 frig in the middle of a 10man bubble camp flys away freely as their intys fly in the wrong direction. though i would much rather use a covert ops with nanos.
Moominer InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.03 07:36:00 - [69] Originally by: Wylbur Originally by: Moominer Originally by: Wylbur It does not help that the Eve community is filled with people who revel in others misery. There are many solution, but they would result in a huge amount of whining. The last I looked, under 0.4 space EVE is hostile, you enter it at your own risk, and, like it or not "reveling in others misery" is entirely part of this wonderfully brutal game. What I discribed is clinical Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e. sociopath). It is not a part of the game; it is a mental illness. Anyone fitting this description would more wisely spend their money on professional treatment. I understand how the game is played. I have been playing for more than three years. I have spent many months living in low sec. Clearly, you don't understand how the game is played if you think people who engage in non-consentual PvP are loons, and think people should abuse CTRL-Q to escape them. ___ Hostile! CTRL-Q CTRL-Q CTRL-Q ... CTRL-Q can save you from sociopath PvPers
Viliny	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:48:00 - [70] Hey i had a time when i got 10 bluescreens a day while playing eve, and once when fighting 5 frigates in my BC, don't know how that ended cos i was greeted with my bios bootscreen soon enough. Lost a ship but i only lost my pod after logging in again... Id like for there to be some kind of system to help out people who suffer from software failures... As for logging out intentionally, tbh im too lazy to hone my skills at something so untastefull. For anyone suffering from constant crashes/bluescreens due to the h10 something .sys file and you are using a creative card of some sort, give Kx project drivers a go, their completely rewritten and free. Works great for me, and might solve issues not related to EVE aswell...

Lorn Yeager Gallente Blessed Souls	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:10:00 - [71] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Wylbur That was not an insult. It was not directed at a particular person. It was a general statement of fact. Given the statistics, at least 600 playing Eve at any given time have APD. Likely more given that Eve does not discourage that type of behavior. So anyone who enjoys defeating other people in a game has a mental disorder? dont you know? we are labeled as griefers. :-D Begin sig: //-> Its Aloha time! Lorn Yeager Blessed Souls
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:54:00 - [72] Very interesting post I noticed I'm able to dock while under "Global Criminal Countdown", should it be so, is it a bug, should it be bug reported ? thank you
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:00:00 - [73] Hummm there is a little misunderstanding I think, I see some people telling that PvP is not consensual AND pointing out the fact that 0.4 and below is a PvP zone. PvP zones = consensual PvP. You accept it when you enter it. However in eve you can be killed in 1.0 : Suicide gankers, corp wars, rogue corp members, griefers tactics. As soon as you undock, you can be a target, anywhere, anytime. THIS is non-consensual PvP. More seriously: logoffsky is marvelous, perfect. It's the perfect tool to avoid PvP, not exactly "Player versus Player" but more likely "Predator vs Prey" as the root of the problem of logoffsky lies in ganking. But logoffsky is also horrible, atrocious, by it's effect on regular PvP. Sadly, the regular pvpers will just have to suffer the effects of this method, because they are outnumbered by the gankers, wich are outnumbered by the carebears. Don't you understand that CCP is completly stuck between two huge problems? Mission runners don't want to be analy probed in their deadspace, yet PvPers have to find their ennemies. Lowbies (SP & equipment) don't want to be toilet paper for vets, yet vets need to be able to harm all members of an ennemy corp. Soloers don't like playing "one ant vs 50 hammers", yet a group must absolutly be able to stop critical ships, like an hauler full of POS fuels. Nearly everyone loathes gate camps, yet it's the only way to effectively prevent ennemy actions in some scenarii and/or protect your operations/territories. Ect... Personnally I hope that stages 2 and 3 of revelations will not fix the logoffsky problem, neither confirm it as valid, but just make even thinking about it obsolete.
Apertotes Nuevos Horizontes O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:17:00 - [74] somethings that could help with log off exploits and other things, like alt scouting, alt market scout, etc. which i also consider exploits. 1. no alts. only 1 character per account. this is the hardest part, but i am sure CCP would find a way to do it right 2. persistant ships. only safe log off at stations. whenever you log off on open space, your ship remains there until you log on again. this would also help when defending territories, and would make roaming gangs much more challenging. so, what if you need to close the game and you are deep in 0.0 and the closest station is 15 jumps away? well, chances are not many people will look for you, but if you want to play it safe, get to your own hidden place, put a cloak on, and leave. 3. nerf map statistics, at least on 0.0
Khes	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:01:00 - [75] I totaly agree that something must be done about the log-off situation. It is just not working as it is now. Simple as that. I have no idea about what to do, but Im sure someone has brains enough to figure something out. Just do it a.s.a.p.
Soulja	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:06:00 - [76] Edited by: Soulja on 03/01/2007 14:08:36 Ok. I dont post often, you might see why after reading this post but here goes. I propose a solution (of sorts), please read it all before flaming :). 1) No bubbles within 100km of Gates, (gates use mucho power thus interfering with the field for RP sake) 2) Bubbles that stop players mid-warp (the bigger the bubble the more likely it is, perhaps) 3) Bubbles trigger aggression timer, no more logoffski 4) When a player joins a system they dont get shown who is hostile or friendly for a time, say 5 - 10 minutes enough time for the hostiles to try and intercept at the gate. First edit: Ok for step number 2 to be feasible, a quicker anchor time and cheaper bubbles might be need, I dunno I never used em. I'm curious to know what people think of this?
Cougem Defile. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:40:00 - [77] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2007 18:55:54 Originally by: Cougem Why don't they change the 1 minute timer (if you aren't aggro'd) to a 15 min timer? If you crash then surely you'll be back within a minute anyway so it doesn't matter? Because if you aren't aggroed, you should be able to safely quit EVE. If there was a blanket 15-minute timer regardless, then you would be completely unable to log out in space safely as 15 minutes is plenty of time to scan someone down and kill them. Sounds like a small price to pay to me - just dock if you want to quit.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Cougem Sounds like a small price to pay to me - just dock if you want to quit. Perhaps you should leave empire for a change. You know, 0.0 generally doesn't feature docking ability, NPC stations and player outposts excluded. You know, sometimes you just have to go, like... whatever... or maybe your power goes out or w/e. All that is needed to fix, is that whenever a player is aggressed he gets a 15 minute timer. Doesn't matter if he is logged on or off, also the disappear delay (between logging off and the ship disappearing) when not aggressed, should be reduced to 45 seconds or under, so that it's not possible to probe out players who log out without aggro timer. This would solve most cases, and well, if your game crashes, **** luck, you lose your ship. Chances are, most of the time the game won't detect the client crash until you are in a pod anyway. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:41:00 - [79] Originally by: Cougem Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2007 18:55:54 Originally by: Cougem Why don't they change the 1 minute timer (if you aren't aggro'd) to a 15 min timer? If you crash then surely you'll be back within a minute anyway so it doesn't matter? Because if you aren't aggroed, you should be able to safely quit EVE. If there was a blanket 15-minute timer regardless, then you would be completely unable to log out in space safely as 15 minutes is plenty of time to scan someone down and kill them. Sounds like a small price to pay to me - just dock if you want to quit. Seconded. In what other PvP-based RPG can you just log out and vanish instantly? Or any MMO, for that matter. Logging out when there's danger means you'll probably die horribly. The emergency warp is a courtesy to stop the rats from tearing you asunder. Players have more toys. If you log off in unsafe space, you will probably die. If you disconnect, get back in and fight. If your power goes out, well, you're a rarity (or a liar), so tough ;) ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:50:00 - [80] I would like to see a logout option that gives you a timer before logging off, and once the timer runs out you instantly vanish from space and do not warp off. This would be used mainly for logging out at POSs and actually staying in the shield bubble.

Jas Dor	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:58:00 - [81] So set off a smart bomb in the general vicinity of the jump in point everytime somebody comes in. Bam instant aggro timer. Probe as needed.
Deva Blackfire Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:21:00 - [82] Originally by: Jas Dor So set off a smart bomb in the general vicinity of the jump in point everytime somebody comes in. Bam instant aggro timer. Probe as needed. I was thinking abt ECM burst - should have longer range and only breaks the lock (so no prob for campers).
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:22:00 - [83] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Jas Dor So set off a smart bomb in the general vicinity of the jump in point everytime somebody comes in. Bam instant aggro timer. Probe as needed. I was thinking abt ECM burst - should have longer range and only breaks the lock (so no prob for campers). ECM burst is better deffo. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Jas Dor	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:39:00 - [84] Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Cougem Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2007 18:55:54 Originally by: Cougem Why don't they change the 1 minute timer (if you aren't aggro'd) to a 15 min timer? If you crash then surely you'll be back within a minute anyway so it doesn't matter? Because if you aren't aggroed, you should be able to safely quit EVE. If there was a blanket 15-minute timer regardless, then you would be completely unable to log out in space safely as 15 minutes is plenty of time to scan someone down and kill them. The EvE client randomly kills my graphics driver about once every couple of days requiring windows to reboot (this does not happen around gates). Sounds like a small price to pay to me - just dock if you want to quit. Seconded. In what other PvP-based RPG can you just log out and vanish instantly? Or any MMO, for that matter. Logging out when there's danger means you'll probably die horribly. The emergency warp is a courtesy to stop the rats from tearing you asunder. Players have more toys. If you log off in unsafe space, you will probably die. If you disconnect, get back in and fight. If your power goes out, well, you're a rarity (or a liar), so tough ;)
nickky01 The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:33:00 - [85] Originally by: Kyria Timeyu Because everybody should be forced to fight your gank groups 1 vs 10 right? Because that's proper PvP, killing somebody without having a single shot fired back. just for you http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/lars7480/danger.jpg ------------------------------------------- Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Oh and IAC's official response to ISS's offer is lollerskates.
Pseudo Ucksth HelpCorp United Eden's Fire	Posted - 2007.01.04 09:43:00 - [86] Originally by: Viliny ... Id like for there to be some kind of system to help out people who suffer from software failures... It's called a reimbursement petition. If you lose a ship due to eve crashing, the GMs can investigate it and give you your ship back. (minus whatever equipment was dropped in your wreck, so, basically, anything that's in your killmail.) If indeed you crashed, and didn't log off. They can tell the difference. Therefore, there is no reason not to change it, however, reimbursement petitions usually take awhile as it is, and if there's a sudden influx of them due to many people actually realizing this, they would have less of a reason to fix it anyways. _____
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.05 09:37:00 - [87] Originally by: Pseudo Ucksth Originally by: Viliny ... Id like for there to be some kind of system to help out people who suffer from software failures... It's called a reimbursement petition. If you lose a ship due to eve crashing, the GMs can investigate it and give you your ship back. (minus whatever equipment was dropped in your wreck, so, basically, anything that's in your killmail.) If indeed you crashed, and didn't log off. They can tell the difference. Therefore, there is no reason not to change it, however, reimbursement petitions usually take awhile as it is, and if there's a sudden influx of them due to many people actually realizing this, they would have less of a reason to fix it anyways. Err. They can't really tell too much, if it's client failure, you rarely will get your stuff back. And what stops me from plugging out my internet cable when i see that things are going bad for me, then petitioning? All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Goose1965	Posted - 2007.01.05 11:25:00 - [88] Well...as long as you got fighters in your camp, then anything bigger than a frigate dies...as you can lock cruisers and above before they insta warp..and fighters follow them to their 1 Million K logged ss. I have had many folks try this tactic in my camps, and they always die from the fighters within the 1 minute
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.05 12:02:00 - [89] Originally by: Pseudo Ucksth Originally by: Viliny ... Id like for there to be some kind of system to help out people who suffer from software failures... It's called a reimbursement petition. If you lose a ship due to eve crashing, the GMs can investigate it and give you your ship back. (minus whatever equipment was dropped in your wreck, so, basically, anything that's in your killmail.) If indeed you crashed, and didn't log off. They can tell the difference. Therefore, there is no reason not to change it, however, reimbursement petitions usually take awhile as it is, and if there's a sudden influx of them due to many people actually realizing this, they would have less of a reason to fix it anyways. So the GMs can tell the difference? sweet. as long as legitimate war kills arent getting their crap reimbursed.
NeverL Enterprise Estonia	Posted - 2007.01.05 12:02:00 - [90] thank you ryysa, now if i ever find myself in a situation like you describe i will ctrl+q every time. thank you, you just saved my BS.

Coumarin	Posted - 2007.01.05 12:27:00 - [91] Originally by: Pseudo Ucksth Originally by: Viliny ... Id like for there to be some kind of system to help out people who suffer from software failures... It's called a reimbursement petition. If you lose a ship due to eve crashing, the GMs can investigate it and give you your ship back. (minus whatever equipment was dropped in your wreck, so, basically, anything that's in your killmail.) If indeed you crashed, and didn't log off. They can tell the difference. Therefore, there is no reason not to change it, however, reimbursement petitions usually take awhile as it is, and if there's a sudden influx of them due to many people actually realizing this, they would have less of a reason to fix it anyways. This is still Viliny writing, yeah i know about reimburements... my friend lost a drake because his ship bugged in a lvl 3 mission and he couldn't warp out But i didn't bother to do one, figured i can live with it... i mean if i wouldn't have crashed i doubt id still have made it out any better, i might have had the chance to survive a bit longer and maybe a snowball in hell chance of making out with my ship but hey... don't wanna clog the petitions up any more than they already are. Luckily i found the reason to my bluescreens though :]
Zanarkand Gallente Enterprise Estonia	Posted - 2007.01.05 13:30:00 - [92] Edited by: Zanarkand on 05/01/2007 13:31:07 Another scenario: Jump into a bubble camp in my 4 stabbed enyo/Vexor/Thorax/whatever. Log off and get out of the bubble safely, but if you want to continue on and you will have to do the "login and out" stuff. Just log in once you have succesfully logged out of a camp and log out as soon as you are in the system(either you visiually see your ship or see yourself in local with an alt). Continue with the log on and log off thing for 5+ times and eventually you will end up in a spot where you can freely warp off. I haven't really done this a lot, but I have gotten several ships through 10man+ camps using that tactic. The same thing works for pods. This thing seriously needs a fix...
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.05 15:05:00 - [93] I can see both sides of this argument being viable...in a way. I'm sure there's frustration involved on both sides. Personally, I don't mind my ship getting destroyed so much in actual PvP. The only large loss I suffered was my own damn fault for making two relatively minor mistakes. Oops? Pain and humiliation are two of the most efficient learning tools in the world. Would I have even put any thought into what I could have done better if I simply logged off and disappeared? Pretty improbable. That's what I consider PvP, though...two (or more) players fighting each other. In a relatively fair fight, i.e. both ships are fighting ships, I'd be pretty annoyed at anyone that logged off or ran away when it became clear they were losing. On the other hand, I don't consider 5 frigs loaded with t2 jumping on a mining barge or indy PvP and I don't think I'd blame anyone that'd use *every* method at their disposal to evade a pack of pussies ganging up on a ship that has very little chance to survive otherwise. So, for the wannabe pirates that head out into 0.0 with the bare necessities trained and a few bits of T1 taped to their ships...hey...you deserve to be ass piped by the cold, hard rod of your own incompetence. Suck it up and watch how they attack and what weps they use. You might just learn something. And for the gate campers and belt monkeys that are only in search of easy prey...sorry 'bout your luck. Deal with easy prey being able to disappear or quit being a candy ass and use your awesome skills to track down someone with enough confidence in their ship not to log off when you attack.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.05 17:28:00 - [94] Edited by: Ryysa on 05/01/2007 17:28:25 Originally by: NeverL thank you ryysa, now if i ever find myself in a situation like you describe i will ctrl+q every time. thank you, you just saved my BS. Originally by: Zanarkand Another scenario: Jump into a bubble camp in my 4 stabbed enyo/Vexor/Thorax/whatever. Log off and get out of the bubble safely, but if you want to continue on and you will have to do the "login and out" stuff. Just log in once you have succesfully logged out of a camp and log out as soon as you are in the system(either you visiually see your ship or see yourself in local with an alt). Continue with the log on and log off thing for 5+ times and eventually you will end up in a spot where you can freely warp off. I haven't really done this a lot, but I have gotten several ships through 10man+ camps using that tactic. The same thing works for pods. This thing seriously needs a fix... Agree, but I haven't seen this work very reliably. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Dinique Caldari Malicious Intentions Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.14 18:28:00 - [95] The day CCP FINALLY fixes this I would be very happy. Fix Emergency warps out of bubbles ATLEAST.
MegabitOne Caldari The Black Ops Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 12:37:00 - [96] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 02/01/2007 18:17:56 Problem is, I view alt scouting as much of an exploit as logging... Using a shuttle alt to scout is metagaming just as much as logging is. It's an exploit of game mechanics to use a disposable alt to make sure the way is clear for your main and his/her BS. I'm not defending logging, but those that decree you're stupid for not using alt scouts can bite me, you're cheating too... Woot? Alt scouting not ok for you? Have you, IRL, ever saw a BS wander around alone in hostile waters? Don't think so, huh? No, they use frigates, destroyers, cruisers etc too to go in before they arrive at the battle field. And for the same reason that scouts are used in EVE: BS's are too precious to be lost due to a gate camp if it can be avoided. Scouting is legit game play IMHO.... The fact that you do it yourself or let one of your friends/corpies do it for you is not the question: you don't have any advantage nor disadvantage from doing it yourself against going in with two people. In EVE all that is not forbidden, is allowed. And there is almost no game tactic forbidden, bar griefing and stuff... Logoffski is not greafing, it's like super-ECM :-) Off course there are people, also IRL, that will try to fight 4 opponents while the 5th one is holding 'm down instead of running away when they have the chance. To those I can only say that there is a very thin line between bravery and foolishness :p Usually the outcome of the fight decides what it was, hehe. --- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway! -= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =-
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:24:00 - [97] Edited by: Sebastien LeReparteur on 15/01/2007 18:22:51 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2007 18:20:45 Originally by: Kyria Timeyu Because everybody should be forced to fight your gank groups 1 vs 10 right? Because that's proper PvP, killing somebody without having a single shot fired back. Say this to yourself fifty thousand times. PvP in EVE is not consensual. [...] If you don't want to have to scout ahead and plan for the possibility of gatecamps, don't leave high sec. There are countless game mechanics available to counter gatecamps--use them and you will be able to laugh at those that waste their time sitting on gates while you go right around. ROFL that makes me laugh! Actualy trustin ppl to follow any sort of honor code. Anyway CCP can't do anything for this. CCT could be from power cut, to ISP ban, from Ctrl+Q, to node crash. All of you hard core anti whine super pvper just get a life and don't mind the mechanics users. And Btw Blob tactics is a game mechanics as is Login trap, as Nano setup are... This is just a game and most don't care about your PvP in EVE is not consensual thing... I personally don't mind but neither do I promise I won<t try to save a 2 bill ship by loggoff ski someday in the far far future... Oh ship bumping to prevent warp is alos a game mechanics yet it is the only one to prevent capital warp and even emergency warp If I am not wrong... Dunno for you all but seing a guy login and off for 30 min just to get to a system is a won engagement for me...
Zhecao Vai	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:39:00 - [98] Maybe someone covered this, but why not just make emergency-crash-warp not warp you if you're scrambled or bubbled? That seems fair.
Mayoz Miner	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:15:00 - [99] Edited by: Mayoz Miner on 15/01/2007 19:12:04 If they have logged of you have won the fight, your the 'better man'. Do you need a kill mail to tell you this ...do you ? or is it the ISK from the loot you miss most of all ? They logoffski = you win. Them = Lame players of a MMO.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:30:00 - [100] Originally by: Mayoz Miner Edited by: Mayoz Miner on 15/01/2007 19:12:04 If they have logged of you have won the fight, your the 'better man'. Do you need a kill mail to tell you this ...do you ? or is it the ISK from the loot you miss most of all ? They logoffski = you win. Them = Lame players of a MMO. The moral victory is nice, but it's hard to make a living pirating if you're not collecting ransoms or loot. Alliance people would also say that they haven't won the fight if they haven't kept someone out of their territory and hopefully inflicted a financial loss on them as well. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE

Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:38:00 - [101] Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur Edited by: Sebastien LeReparteur on 15/01/2007 18:22:51 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/01/2007 18:20:45 Originally by: Kyria Timeyu Because everybody should be forced to fight your gank groups 1 vs 10 right? Because that's proper PvP, killing somebody without having a single shot fired back. Say this to yourself fifty thousand times. PvP in EVE is not consensual. [...] If you don't want to have to scout ahead and plan for the possibility of gatecamps, don't leave high sec. There are countless game mechanics available to counter gatecamps--use them and you will be able to laugh at those that waste their time sitting on gates while you go right around. ROFL that makes me laugh! Actualy trustin ppl to follow any sort of honor code. Anyway CCP can't do anything for this. CCT could be from power cut, to ISP ban, from Ctrl+Q, to node crash. All of you hard core anti whine super pvper just get a life and don't mind the mechanics users. And Btw Blob tactics is a game mechanics as is Login trap, as Nano setup are... This is just a game and most don't care about your PvP in EVE is not consensual thing... I personally don't mind but neither do I promise I won<t try to save a 2 bill ship by loggoff ski someday in the far far future... Oh ship bumping to prevent warp is alos a game mechanics yet it is the only one to prevent capital warp and even emergency warp If I am not wrong... Dunno for you all but seing a guy login and off for 30 min just to get to a system is a won engagement for me... They can do something. They can not remove your ship from the server, when you ctrl-q or disconnect. Let it take like 30 seconds to quit the game, where you need to sit at your spot and keep the fingers of the keyboard and mouse. Then your ship gets removed from space, but not if you ctrl-q or disconnect. Something like that is my preferred fix. And if you crash, log back in. Simple. edit: Damn, the people, who defend logging, because an engagement isn't fair should get the license to visit low sec and 0.0 removed for not understanding, what pvp in EVE is. You need to take it, like it comes in EVE. Either you are able to run or if that option is not available you fight and win or die. And losing is meant to cost you something. If you want to reduce your risk to get ganked, adapt your playstyle that you don't get often in that situation. That it. If been ganked, too. So what. If you enter 0.0 and fly around alone without a scout, then that can happen. Big deal. If I want zero risk to get killed by people who are more or have fittings where I stand no chance, then I shouldn't be there, maybe not undock at all in EVE.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:48:00 - [102] Edited by: Strel Samodelkin on 15/01/2007 19:45:17 Great guide! I'll be using this to get expensive cargo through low sec for sure. Time to make a lot more isk! So do I need to hit CTRL Q or pull the plug from my router?
Astorothe Ono-Sensai	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:00:00 - [103] What's low security?
Ashiana	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:12:00 - [104] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Cougem Sounds like a small price to pay to me - just dock if you want to quit. Perhaps you should leave empire for a change. You know, 0.0 generally doesn't feature docking ability, NPC stations and player outposts excluded. You know, sometimes you just have to go, like... whatever... or maybe your power goes out or w/e. All that is needed to fix, is that whenever a player is aggressed he gets a 15 minute timer. Doesn't matter if he is logged on or off, also the disappear delay (between logging off and the ship disappearing) when not aggressed, should be reduced to 45 seconds or under, so that it's not possible to probe out players who log out without aggro timer. This would solve most cases, and well, if your game crashes, **** luck, you lose your ship. Chances are, most of the time the game won't detect the client crash until you are in a pod anyway. Sounds pretty good. Getting closer to a solution... Only downside is for the player who has a cloaked hauler/covops/whatever and ctd's due to lag on warpin. He's toast, when he'd have a good chance if he was still logged in. Guess he can petition though... Why do people moan so much about gatecamps? I mean, I hate jumping into the things, and I hate how they make it so hard to get in and out of .0, but they do take organisation and dedication. Campers have no idea what's coming through the gate unless they station a scout in the next system over. Even then, a well-tanked bs could hold a camp off until the cavalry came in. Then the campers are stuck in their own bubble and done for. Gotta try that sometime.
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:29:00 - [105] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 20:19:54 Originally by: Bazuka Originally by: Ryysa I am a pvper, the only reason I play eve is because of it's complex pvp. Um hum , gatecamping is soooo complex and complicated...and ummmm... exiting PVP...yeah. Your tactic aint gonna work too you know. Becouse no mater how much the whining number increase of you self-proclaimed-EvE-vets it will never be the majority....unless 50+% of EVE players start camping gates...which are the players who whine right? The gatecampers ? I dont ever hear people that hate gatecamping and think its the most ghey play style ever invented ( and called PvP never the less heh ) complain about this. And thats what...90% ? 91% ? more ? Its very cool to hear the gankers cry you know , so I hope these "logoffski"threads go on and on and on and on... Very entertaining. Dude i don't give a ** about gatecamping, out of my entire eve career i maybe spent 4 hours gate camping, I think it's the worst kind of pvp. Let's make it clear, I DONT GIVE A FLYING ABOUT GATECAMPING. ok ? capiche? But if you go into a belt ALONE vastly outclassed against a battleship or battlecruiser with your inty, and he just logs off because he knows you can never kill him within 1 minute, that's where the game is broken. It's not about GATECAMPS, a big gatecamp will gank whatever goes through it within 1 minute easy, gate camps don't have a problem with this. I am just tired of retards coming to forums with alt accounts who are most likely carebears who only heard from forums how dangerous 0.0 is, who have NO clue how to play the game and whine all day on forums how they get ganked and how 0.0 is not accessible. I am personally not part of any alliance, I have NBSI policy and i only have a small 200 man entity blue to me out of the entire eve universe, yet I have no problem going wherever i want to. It's called experience, and knowledge of game mechanics. Now if all you alttrolls would kindly off from this thread, because the point of this thread is not to discuss whether logging off is broken or not, the point is to show people exactly how it works, no more, no less. So if you want to flame GTFO and find another thread to post in, I did not create this forum thread pro- or against logofftactics, it's meant as an informative post. So yeah, this is where I find a big 'ol heap of irony. Pretend with me for a sec, that the OP is the guy (about to do a logofski) minding his own business, trying to do something that he thinks is fun. When BAM, all of a sudden, other people start messing with that idea (the bubble camp, the suicide gank, the other random * moves out there) and he starts to get all **ed. The forums are as much PvP as the game in this example. There is NOTHING he can do about this thread getting derailed into talking about other stuff. ABOSUTELY NOTHING. So he has two choices, yell (like above) or logofski, and ignore this thread because he has no other choice. I just can't stop laughing about that, I LOVE irony like this. Anyway, personal opinion: I think the logoff tactics are lame, but i'll continue to use them because as a solo player, it's the only way i can get around. I've only done it twice, i think, and i got very angry eve-mails about it too. But since I had NO WAY to defend myself being the solo player that I am, I decided to turn the tables and give them NO WAY to gank me being the 10 players that they were. PS if anyone wants to join a corp (of just me) that likes to do whatever it wants, when ever it wants, so long as it isn't killing people just for the kill mail orgasm it produces, let me know. good game
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:36:00 - [106] And now for my constructive post. I agree with the idea to make a logout button that works like it does in other MMOs like SWG and WOW. Hit the button, your character sits down and waits for like a min (we could make eve's timer 2 min cause i think that's what it is if you disconnect anyway) after that time, if you haven't moved your ship, activated any modules, or anything then your ship is removed from space. Otherwise, it stays and uses the timers and stuff. good game
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:05:00 - [107] Originally by: Moraguth So yeah, this is where I find a big 'ol heap of irony. Pretend with me for a sec, that the OP is the guy (about to do a logofski) minding his own business, trying to do something that he thinks is fun. When BAM, all of a sudden, other people start messing with that idea (the bubble camp, the suicide gank, the other random *** moves out there) and he starts to get all *ed. The forums are as much PvP as the game in this example. There is NOTHING he can do about this thread getting derailed into talking about other stuff. ABOSUTELY NOTHING. So he has two choices, yell (like above) or logofski, and ignore this thread because he has no other choice. I just can't stop laughing about that, I LOVE irony like this. Anyway, personal opinion: I think the logoff tactics are lame, but i'll continue to use them because as a solo player, it's the only way i can get around. I've only done it twice, i think, and i got very angry eve-mails about it too. But since I had NO WAY to defend myself being the solo player that I am, I decided to turn the tables and give them NO WAY to gank me being the 10 players that they were. Pah. Who's choice is it to play solo? Who's choice is it to wander outside of Concord protected space? I play solo as well, and I deal with the consequences. What that means is that I plan a lot more, I take some risks, and I pay for my mistakes when I screw up or luck just doesn't go my way. In return, I get to make my own way and I get the satisfaction of playing with the numbers and odds stacked against me. So each success counts for a lot. How anyone can derive any satisfaction out of hitting ctrl-q when they already admit it's lame is beyond me. * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:15:00 - [108] I get satisfaction from having a good fight, or narrowly escaping if i choose to fight. When there's absolutely NO CHANCE though, why bother giving them the satisfaction? I'll save my isk and my time, just logoff for a short bit, and be happier for it. I lvoe this game. good game
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:42:00 - [109] I admit it makes "practical" sense to log off--I'm not any fonder of getting by ships blown up than anybody else, and if it were RL I'd definitely logoff to save my, uhh, car. :P But I see it as my mistake for getting into that situation in the first place. And those mistakes are what make my successes mean something. And since it's a game, I don't take it quite as seriously as I would getting my car blown up by a ganksquad at a toll gate. To me, logging off is like losing twice. Once because I screwed up, twice because I didn't accept the consequences. As far as the isk goes, that's where the whole "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" thing comes in. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Moraguth Amarr Rangers	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:57:00 - [110] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske I admit it makes "practical" sense to log off--I'm not any fonder of getting by ships blown up than anybody else, and if it were RL I'd definitely logoff to save my, uhh, car. :P But I see it as my mistake for getting into that situation in the first place. And those mistakes are what make my successes mean something. And since it's a game, I don't take it quite as seriously as I would getting my car blown up by a ganksquad at a toll gate. To me, logging off is like losing twice. Once because I screwed up, twice because I didn't accept the consequences. As far as the isk goes, that's where the whole "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" thing comes in. Thanks for the sensible response. Alot of people on the forums don't know how to do that. Good Hunting good game

Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:29:00 - [111] Originally by: Moraguth Thanks for the sensible response. Alot of people on the forums don't know how to do that. My response made sense? I think that means I fail the E-O forums for the day. Quote: Good Hunting Likewise. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Tri Kaya	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:10:00 - [112] Hi, very intresting topic. I think both sides have some good arguments for an against logoff tactics. I never crtl-q in a combat situation (either with pre- or without agro status) but personaly I don't have problems with players who do it. Why ? Because they don't want to play. And in this situation it's no my problem but theirs. You cannot force somebody to play if he don't want to. Still there are enough players outside have fun playing eve without loging off. So have fun and thx for nice coments on this issue. -Tri Kaya
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:54:00 - [113] Originally by: Moraguth And now for my constructive post. I agree with the idea to make a logout button that works like it does in other MMOs like SWG and WOW. Hit the button, your character sits down and waits for like a min (we could make eve's timer 2 min cause i think that's what it is if you disconnect anyway) after that time, if you haven't moved your ship, activated any modules, or anything then your ship is removed from space. Otherwise, it stays and uses the timers and stuff. Add to that timer "if you have not been aggressed within that time". And we have a deal. Hell, 2 minutes is not even needed, make it 1 minute. And if you are on pvp timer make it tell you how long you are still on it. Just as long as if you get aggressed during the waiting period you get the 15 minute timer. You can also choose to "Force" log out, but in that case your ship stays in space, for the specified time, at your own risk and if you get aggroed, you get the timer still the same. Imo, it's uber simple to fix logoff tactics, just make people get an aggro timer if they get shot at, always, not only when they're logged on. Voila, most of the logoff problems are eliminated. The bubbles are a rather touchy subject. Let's say you did genuinely crash in a bigger fleet op.... Not warping out of the bubble would be kinda the death sentence. So i can't comment on that really. But you shouldn't be able to jump your freighter without scout into 10 man gatecamp, then log out and be able to save your ship, that's just wrong. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:59:00 - [114] Originally by: Pseudo Ucksth It's called a reimbursement petition. To which Devs respond: Sorry we cannot honor your request due to being unable to find any proof in the serverlogs. Ps. Never logged off myself in a fight. PPs Solution: Logging off should not be instant, but give you a two minute countdown (preparing to enter subspace hibernate status in: 119 seconds) unless you have an aggro timer. Then leave your ship out for one minute after you are gone. When you have an aggro timer you will get a warning before initiating logoff. All that is needed is server sided registration of logoff, upon logoff request. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Daddy's Belt Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:16:00 - [115] Yay! I finally got a chance to logoffski about a half hour ago, and I log in now, and I'm as safe as a spacepuppy. Thanks for your guide! Honor is for the weak. Someone's gonna get a buttwhippin'!
Steppa Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:41:00 - [116] The djinni is out of the bottle on multiple accounts, ie an alt scout. If CCP would have started Eve with an IP blocker that only lets one IP address log on to the server at a time, we'd not be having this discussion. However, on the other side of that same coin, Eve may not have had the subscription numbers to make it past Exodus. I hate the fact that we're allowed to have multiple accounts that do various and sundry things for us (avoiding empire wars, cyno alts, scouts, etc), but since it is so pervasive in the game, I have come to realize that you cannot fight inertia that also comes with a large revenue tag to CCP. I have alts now myself.
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:03:00 - [117] Edited by: Sebastien LeReparteur on 16/01/2007 18:03:48 Originally by: Steppa The djinni is out of the bottle on multiple accounts, ie an alt scout. If CCP would have started Eve with an IP blocker that only lets one IP address log on to the server at a time, we'd not be having this discussion. Some may share the same IP with some ISP so not this is not a plan of action. But I do not see how this could actually prevent Log Off/in tactics... I would be the first one to quit since UI could not do those nice EVELAN party!
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:10:00 - [118] they should remove all the safety mechanisms and build in a port scanner and dos attack pinger of death thing into the game so you can flood enemies of the internet. having electronic (internet) warfare could be a new slant on this already technologically advanced game!
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:29:00 - [119] Originally by: Ryysa I am a pvper, the only reason I play eve is because of it's complex pvp. As soon as everyone will start using this, there will be a very large outroar in the eve community, and CCP will be forced to do something about this. The faster that happens, the better for us pvpers. Well, im outroaring Its doing no good so far, just getting the same response every time I petition it. Its kinda ****ty when a war target escapes because of stabs but meh, thats eve, but people logging out? especially when scrambled. (some are retarded enough to leave their drones out (SHOOT THOSE GOD DAMN DRONES, THEY SHOOT BACK, 15 MINUTES OF FUN) All i can say is if someone logs on you (like a certain alliances fleet commander...) Fraps it, if you're quick enough on the trigger you can bring them untold shame and greef If they log in and out constantly to stay in warp till help arrives then just keep the tape rolling.... doesnt help if his names asdkahkljlsd and he likes to farm things but it will help if hes part of a player corp. (just send it to his CEO, unless you find out it is the ceo....then just embarass them on the interweb) If the enemys in local its fine to log off, do it in a safe spot though... If the enemys at a gate/belt looking at you, then it is not fine to log off, ever. Its that simple.
Sy Sperling	Posted - 2007.01.19 05:37:00 - [120] Originally by: Steppa The djinni is out of the bottle on multiple accounts, ie an alt scout. If CCP would have started Eve with an IP blocker that only lets one IP address log on to the server at a time, we'd not be having this discussion. And my roommate would still be looking over my shoulder while I play the game instead of getting an account himself and playing it on his PC.

Nuska Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.01.19 06:00:00 - [121] Originally by: Dark Shikari Nobody can force you to go to low security space. Nobody can force you to not log off either. Logging off is as much part of the game as getting ganked 50:1. Those who can't deal with that do have the option to not renew their subscription. Done and done.
Haas Murthal	Posted - 2007.01.19 08:13:00 - [122] OP, thanks for posting this, very helpful. I've been seeing this more and more out here in 0.0 and well, you know what they say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:23:00 - [123] Originally by: Nuska Originally by: Dark Shikari Nobody can force you to go to low security space. Nobody can force you to not log off either. Logging off is as much part of the game as getting ganked 50:1. Those who can't deal with that do have the option to not renew their subscription. Done and done. I have no problem with people logging off because they have to go etc. I really don't want to force anyone to not log off. As I said over and over again, it's easy to fix the issue at hand, just make people get 15min aggro timer whatever state they are in if they get shot at. Logged in or off. If you shoot at someone he should get the 15 minute timer. Now people would still log out of bubbles at gatecamps, but if you have semi-competent gatecamp shoot them with something just before they manage to warp off (when they're logged already) now your covops will have 15min to probe them. Originally by: Haas Murthal OP, thanks for posting this, very helpful. I've been seeing this more and more out here in 0.0 and well, you know what they say, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Yep, exactly. The more people do it, the larger attention from CCP this will gather, and the faster it gets fixed. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Viront Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.21 14:59:00 - [124] I was wondering why so many people have been doing this lately... Well I hope your idea of increasing awareness works Ryysa but I've only been seeing others do this like mad and they do it well. Corps actually use it as a tactic so they can get everyone out and then back in for some serious ganking. This has the added benefit of leaving no trace, if you have scouts in the surrounding systems and see no hostiles you may think your safe to attack their bait and once they have you bubbled/scrammed local fills up but not from the gate, on top of you I've heard directly from the GMs that this is NOT an exploit so all this guide seems to do is increase the amount of people doing it and their understanding of aggro timers. But since your posts seem well thought-out I'll take your word for it. After all, the recent logoffskies have ****ed me off so much I posted on eve-o forums.

Suvetar Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.21 15:02:00 - [125] This topic has been done to death. The GMs have made their decision and until such time as CCP or the GMs change their mind or alter mechanics, theres no point in continuing the discussion. Locked. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our new Website!



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