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War targets and assisting.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Rieger VaunBraun Crazy Canucks	Posted - 2007.01.03 18:01:00 - [1] Edited by: Rieger VaunBraun on 03/01/2007 18:01:44 I figured this was the best place to ask this question. I have three wonderful EVE players. Player A war decs Player B. So now they can pound the ever loving crap out of each other at gates and in high sec without Concord getting involved. Now, if Player C, who is not at war with Player B is in a gang with player A. As I understand it C is not allowed to fire upon Player B without getting blasted by the authorities. That is all well and good, but what if Player C, being a rare breed, flies a Logistics Ship and is repping Player A? Does this cause the same hostile fire from sentry guns and Concord? Thanks for helping a poor carebear understand the rules and regulations of war.

Jiekon	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:02:00 - [2] if anyone remote reps someones war target, the person at war with said target can legally kill them. Also, if someone joins a gang with someone who is at war, they also become a legal target. BUT they cannot shoot back unless they are attacked first. FINALLY: If you remote rep a criminal (-5 or lower) then you will be global criminally flagged resulting in concordokken, sentry gun fire and everyone being able to kill you. (if i'm right, you will also take a security status hit for aiding a criminal) ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting Guides for new Revelations Features ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

Alumion Amarr Dragons of the Twilight Sun	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:13:00 - [3] Edited by: Alumion on 03/01/2007 19:14:39 Originally by: Jiekon BUT they cannot shoot back unless they are attacked first. This is somewhat misleading, I guess you mean they cannot open fire, but they can return fire - technically this means they can shoot back all right ---- I just noticed I'm talking back to a dev /hides ------ "Scammers, pirates and ore thieves, the only thing that stands between us, and World of Warcraft. God save you all." - Kublai
Rieger VaunBraun Crazy Canucks	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:45:00 - [4] Edited by: Rieger VaunBraun on 03/01/2007 19:45:31 Originally by: Jiekon FINALLY: If you remote rep a criminal (-5 or lower) then you will be global criminally flagged resulting in concordokken, sentry gun fire and everyone being able to kill you. (if i'm right, you will also take a security status hit for aiding a criminal) Thank you for your quick responses, both Jiekon and Alumion. So then if I am in a gang, that has engaged a war target, I can assist members of my gang even though I am unable to fire upon the target? (as long as he is not a criminal) Thank you very much for the clarification.
El Verbatim	Posted - 2007.01.03 20:44:00 - [5] Edited by: El Verbatim on 03/01/2007 20:45:17 Originally by: Jiekon (if i'm right, you will also take a security status hit for aiding a criminal) yep, I can confirm that, Remote Repping a -5 or lower (who hasn't done anything wrong last 15 mins) gives you a sec hit. Gangmate got a -0.25% sec hit when repping me.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.04 07:12:00 - [6] I lost Zealot once because outsiders joined our little skirmish against WT's in hisec. Somehow he was able to shoot me before I shot him .. but it was very intense fight with people flying and dying around me .. "It's great being Amarr, ain't it?Ö" "A world without pain"
Daykin Naib Minmatar FightClub TQ	Posted - 2007.01.04 09:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Jiekon FINALLY: If you remote rep a criminal (-5 or lower) then you will be global criminally flagged resulting in concordokken, sentry gun fire and everyone being able to kill you. (if i'm right, you will also take a security status hit for aiding a criminal) Was this also meant to include the fact that you cant remote rep corp mates that are outlaws without getting flagged and sentry fire on you. Tbh I find that fact slightly ridiculous that you cant assist corp m8s without getting flagged. They are afterall in your corp .....
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.01.04 09:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Daykin Naib Originally by: Jiekon FINALLY: If you remote rep a criminal (-5 or lower) then you will be global criminally flagged resulting in concordokken, sentry gun fire and everyone being able to kill you. (if i'm right, you will also take a security status hit for aiding a criminal) Was this also meant to include the fact that you cant remote rep corp mates that are outlaws without getting flagged and sentry fire on you. Tbh I find that fact slightly ridiculous that you cant assist corp m8s without getting flagged. They are afterall in your corp ..... In the context of aiding criminal corp mates, do you really find it rediculous that you cannot aid a known criminal without the potential for a police response?
Daykin Naib Minmatar FightClub TQ	Posted - 2007.01.04 10:22:00 - [9] Originally by: Rashmika Clavain In the context of aiding criminal corp mates, do you really find it rediculous that you cannot aid a known criminal without the potential for a police response? Well assuming that is the intention of ccp then I guess its just another issue we have to endure with the profession being pirates as it limits our ability to work together as a group which one could argue were the reason we wanted to be in the same corp in the first place.
OldPueblo Gallente The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2007.01.05 01:23:00 - [10] Edited by: OldPueblo on 05/01/2007 01:23:41 Here's a good writeup to back up what's already been said: Flagging & Aggression

Damien Smith Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 14:08:00 - [11] Originally by: Daykin Naib Was this also meant to include the fact that you cant remote rep corp mates that are outlaws without getting flagged and sentry fire on you. Tbh I find that fact slightly ridiculous that you cant assist corp m8s without getting flagged. They are afterall in your corp ..... Don't waste your breath Daykin. Everytime an argument is made regarding someone assisting an outlawed but not criminaly flagged corpmate the 'bears spam the thread with "but you're aiding a criminal lolz!1!". No one cares that outlaws sometimes fight war targets, or just need repping while safespotted, doing missions or whatever. No one even sees the big hole in their argument that if this outlaw is so evil and repping him brings insta-death to any good samaritan who wants to help them, then why don't sentries fire on them on sight? Everyone seems to think every outlaw who argues for this 'game mechanic' to be fixed just wants to create logistics boosted gatecamps, yet fails to see how this would be impossible if the decision to flag the assistee would be made on whether or not the outlaw was criminally flagged or not, as it should be. If they were gatecamping then they'd be criminally flagged, and then helpers would get sentrypwned as you'd expect. They don't see the problem with an outlaw sitting on a gate, not flagged, not aggressed, then having a corpmate go to repair him, and the helper gets instapopped. To them that's perfectly logical and normal. Strange eh? ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.05 14:36:00 - [12] Edited by: Xendie on 05/01/2007 14:37:03 Originally by: Jiekon FINALLY: If you remote rep a criminal (-5 or lower) then you will be global criminally flagged resulting in concordokken, sentry gun fire and everyone being able to kill you. (if i'm right, you will also take a security status hit for aiding a criminal) and now the question comes... is the boosting person supposed to become globally criminally flagged and get a sec hit when the criminal is not globally criminally flagged except for him being -5? i have personally seen this happen and if it is not supposed to do that then you got a bug to squash. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Damien Smith Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Xendie Edited by: Xendie on 05/01/2007 14:37:03 Originally by: Jiekon FINALLY: If you remote rep a criminal (-5 or lower) then you will be global criminally flagged resulting in concordokken, sentry gun fire and everyone being able to kill you. (if i'm right, you will also take a security status hit for aiding a criminal) and now the question comes... is the boosting person supposed to become globally criminally flagged and get a sec hit when the criminal is not globally criminally flagged except for him being -5? i have personally seen this happen and if it is not supposed to do that then you got a bug to squash. The general consensus is that it's 'supposed to happen' and 'not a bug'. Denying outlaws from using the same tactics as everyone else is perfectly normal, even against non-criminally flagged outlaws. That's carebear logic for you... ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2007.01.05 22:38:00 - [14] If you join a gang with someone who is a war target you get a nice little message telling you that anyone who is at war with the person you are joining with will be able to shoot you. This DOES NOT work both ways, a war target cannot go parading around getting help from any random people to assist them in the war. You will NOT be able to attack any of your gang mates war targets untill they fire on you first, if they do fire on you then you can defend yourself to your hearts content (but you cannot defend the initial war target or anyone else in your gang). As far as deciding wether or not to remote repair someone just be aware that all parties with kill rights on the person you assist will now have kill rights on you (but you will NOT have agaisn them so you must still wait to be attacked first). So if you repair someone who has concord after them (for ANY REASON whatsoever) they will immediatly attack you aswell.

Jiekon	Posted - 2007.01.06 12:30:00 - [15] CONCORD has made it a crime to aid an outlaw in any scenario, corp mate or not. So aiding an outlaw will result in a sec hit and flagging for performing a criminal act. Perfectly logical in my opinion, whether they are a corp mate or not. ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting Guides for new Revelations Features ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.06 13:19:00 - [16] Originally by: Damien Smith Don't waste your breath Daykin. Everytime an argument is made regarding someone assisting an outlawed but not criminaly flagged corpmate the 'bears spam the thread with "but you're aiding a criminal lolz!1!". Strange eh? I don't agree with you. I'm not a bear. Strange eh?
Damien Smith Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.06 15:17:00 - [17] Edited by: Damien Smith on 06/01/2007 15:14:02 Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Originally by: Damien Smith Don't waste your breath Daykin. Everytime an argument is made regarding someone assisting an outlawed but not criminaly flagged corpmate the 'bears spam the thread with "but you're aiding a criminal lolz!1!". Strange eh? I don't agree with you. I'm not a bear. Strange eh? So you think that it's perfectly logical for someone remote assisting an unflagged outlaw to be killed by sentries, while the outlaw he's assisting isn't harmed in any way, shape or form? How does that make any sense? ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Jia Yan Blazing Angels Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.01.06 21:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Rashmika Clavain Originally by: Daykin Naib Originally by: Jiekon FINALLY: If you remote rep a criminal (-5 or lower) then you will be global criminally flagged resulting in concordokken, sentry gun fire and everyone being able to kill you. (if i'm right, you will also take a security status hit for aiding a criminal) Was this also meant to include the fact that you cant remote rep corp mates that are outlaws without getting flagged and sentry fire on you. Tbh I find that fact slightly ridiculous that you cant assist corp m8s without getting flagged. They are afterall in your corp ..... In the context of aiding criminal corp mates, do you really find it rediculous that you cannot aid a known criminal without the potential for a police response? The REALLY stupid is that you get globally flagged (and therefore sentried, even when the outlaw is not - someone in CCP really was on a no-brainer day when they thought that one up )
Daykin Naib Minmatar FightClub TQ	Posted - 2007.01.07 13:42:00 - [19] Originally by: Jiekon CONCORD has made it a crime to aid an outlaw in any scenario, corp mate or not. So aiding an outlaw will result in a sec hit and flagging for performing a criminal act. Perfectly logical in my opinion, whether they are a corp mate or not. So logic is when you aid a outlaw corp m8 fighting in this case a wartarget in low sec where the reach of concord/police should be very limited that you will get flagged and sentry fire on you when the outlaw corp mate aint flagged in anyway. You can shoot the same wartarget but you cant aid your own corp mate. To me that logic is kinda on a edge to say the least. Wouldnt it just be easier to flag outlaws the second they undock with this kind of logic?
Zacheria Malfor Gallente FightClub TQ	Posted - 2007.01.07 17:23:00 - [20] Unfortunately the remote repairing issue has been a major problem for us in our recent wars as we tend to fight outnumbered and up close, meaning we try to fit to compliment each other and seen as adding sentry tanking aswell as tanking the war targets if you wish to repair your corp mate it sort of defeats the point, but i'd say it's fairly obvious that this matter isn't up for debate given the replies. But I am on the boat where if the criminal isnt flagged and is a corp mate... what is the issue with him receiving aid be it remote repairing, cap transfer or shield transfer. The majority of pirate corps in my experience tend to be much smaller than the majority of the war targets they will go for which restricts tactics when it comes to fighting toe-to-toe battles and given that logistics are effectively rendered useless when an outlaw that relegates yet another tactic to the garbage pile. Do not fear the reaper, for death is the only certainty in life.


Jiekon	Posted - 2007.01.07 20:05:00 - [21] outlaws ARE flagged the instant they undock, that's what the little red flashy icon means. Sentry guns respond ONLY to agression, sec status changes and criminal acts. Sentry guns are not in place to kill outlaws, they are there to prevent crime. Empire Police forces will actively hunt any outlaw who enters their space in 0.5+ Empire Police forces do not patrol low security space. ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting Guides for new Revelations Features ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

Daykin Naib Minmatar FightClub TQ	Posted - 2007.01.07 22:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Jiekon outlaws ARE flagged the instant they undock, that's what the little red flashy icon means. Sentry guns respond ONLY to agression, sec status changes and criminal acts. Sentry guns are not in place to kill outlaws, they are there to prevent crime. Empire Police forces will actively hunt any outlaw who enters their space in 0.5+ Empire Police forces do not patrol low security space. what I meant with being flagged was sentry fire on them the second they undock as that is the kinda logic you are refering to. You dont have to tell me the rules that this game currently have as i have been playing for 3+ years now. What I am doing is questioning the logic behind the flagging system that have been around for ages while the game have changed alot. These days the game is alot about team effort and in this particular case im questioning the fact you cant aid a corp m8 who is an outlaw in a situation where he havent attacked a so called innocent party but a wartarget. But with the current system Im not allowed to aid him with remote repping or other similiar means without getting myself flagged and therefore sentry fire on me, reminding this is going on in low sec which should be pretty lawless area. But still somehow it becomes a 'criminal act' to aid your own corp m8 in this 'lawless' area to the extent of only having 2 sentries 150+ km from the gate. So it is the logic behind this particular 'crime' im questioning.
Ennis Metara Gallente JASDIP	Posted - 2007.01.07 22:42:00 - [23] Since when do logic and justice have anything to do with one another? As far as I can tell, the more advanced and complex we get, the less sense our legal systems seem to make. Maybe what we need is a new mini-profession: the space lawyer.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.07 22:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Damien Smith So you think that it's perfectly logical for someone remote assisting an unflagged outlaw to be killed by sentries, while the outlaw he's assisting isn't harmed in any way, shape or form? How does that make any sense? Jiekon explained it very nicely tbh.
Damien Smith Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.07 23:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Jiekon outlaws ARE flagged the instant they undock. No, they aren't. If they were globally criminally flagged then sentries would open fire on them on sight, which they don't. Therefore they aren't flagged. No sentries firing, no aggression timer in the top left, nothing. Anyone assisting an unflagged outlaw becomes flagged, but the outlaw doesn't. That's what we're talking about. If sentries only engage on aggression, sec status changes or criminal acts, then why do sentries a few systems over fire on you if you've travelled over there cloaked? You haven't aggressed, there is no sec status change, or no criminal act (since the one you were flagged for). The difference is that you are FLAGGED. When you are flagged sentries fire on sight, therefore outlaws aren't flagged as soon as they undock because the sentries don't fire unless the outlaw has a current global criminal countdown or has a flag to the station he's near. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Samirol Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.07 23:09:00 - [26] Originally by: Jiekon outlaws ARE flagged the instant they undock, that's what the little red flashy icon means. Please show me the aggression timer There is absolutely no reason why I shouldnt be able to remote repair a corpmate without getting flagged. Tier 2 BS Lotto Contact mach'ett3 for all your sig needs
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.01.08 12:45:00 - [27] Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 08/01/2007 12:44:25 If he is under -5, you're aiding and abetting a known criminal. As such you should be flagged for assisting a wanted criminal, corp mate or otherwise. I do agree though, that there does seem to be a discrepancy in the logic of how it works.
Damien Smith Turbulent Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.08 14:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Hippoking@Scrapheap Forums It's like the Sheriff of Nottingham goes and raids the Inn where Robin Hood is staying, arrests the Innkeep for aiding and abetting, and then holds the door open for Mr Hood to leave. Couldn't have said it better myself... ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg

Jiekon	Posted - 2007.01.09 09:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Damien Smith Originally by: Hippoking@Scrapheap Forums It's like the Sheriff of Nottingham goes and raids the Inn where Robin Hood is staying, arrests the Innkeep for aiding and abetting, and then holds the door open for Mr Hood to leave. Couldn't have said it better myself... Not entirely true, the sherrif and his men don't take part in the aprehension. it's the local people throwing stones. or in eve terms: Concord stays out of it. the sentry guns owned by the "local faction" decide to shoot you for aiding a criminal. ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting Guides for new Revelations Features ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.01.09 10:12:00 - [30] I don't get the complaining. Outlaws are not gonna hunt anything in hisec anyways, because they are gonna get shot there. So the whole thing only applies to lowsec (0.1 - 0.4). Now some people are whining for getting flagged. Dudes, you're going there on purpose, because you know your mate is an outlaw and therefor can't go to hisec. So infact you are taking part in avoiding police forces and aiding a criminal. Why don't you see the consequences? And by the way: you could easily go to 0.0 anytimes. No flagging here...



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