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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Meleena Ruin
Exercitus Ruina
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:32:00 -
[1]
I am tired of performance issues and lag problems. The community is getting so big now, we might as well face the fact that it would be good to split us up. 25K+ players all the time is really making space crowded and small.
Tranquility: Europe and its neighbors Serenity: Citizens of China New Server: The Americas New Server: Far East (for people who don't live in China)
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Kaaii
Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:33:00 -
[2]
no
Trading 101
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Dekiri
Exanimo Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:34:00 -
[3]
go play wow
--------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur |

DarkMatter
Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:34:00 -
[4]
We need regional sharding, and still have one EVE universe...
Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead |

Jongo Fett
Caldari Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:35:00 -
[5]
stay away from the core systems its pritty simple and u get no lag or even better live in 0.0 easy...
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Meleena Ruin
Exercitus Ruina
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dekiri go play wow
Why would I want to go play a stupid game like that?
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Altaree
Gallente Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:36:00 -
[7]
I guess you don't understand the Eve is a LARGE cluster of servers, not just one server. No matter what, there are going to be lag problems until CCP figures out a way to dynamically move systems between server nodes instead of assigning a group of systems to a node at DT. After that they will need to figure out how to have different grids within a system on different server nodes.
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Nero Scuro
Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:36:00 -
[8]
Yeah I'd really enjoy this, being split from my american/euro corp of 2 years because some carebear doesn't like the lag in Jita.
Not. ___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |

Timmy Bettenson
Caldari Total Mayhem. Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dekiri go play wow
what she said
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Mephesto Nizal
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:38:00 -
[10]
Eh no, in fact we need twice as many players, and better trade hub placing, some new stargate allignments. Deviding Eve is a baaaad idea.
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SonOTassadar
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Altaree I guess you don't understand the Eve is a LARGE cluster of servers, not just one server. No matter what, there are going to be lag problems until CCP figures out a way to dynamically move systems between server nodes instead of assigning a group of systems to a node at DT. After that they will need to figure out how to have different grids within a system on different server nodes.
I doubt it will ever go that far. Technology improves faster than the Eve player base climbs. Simply giving Jita a more powerful node would help.
And to the OP: No. ----- Griffin -- 100,000 ISK ECM - Multispectral Jammer Is -- 20,000 ISK Standar Missile Launcher Is -- 10,000 ISK War target sobbing over losing a fight in his T2 fitted Battleship -- priceless |

sableye
principle of motion R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:39:00 -
[12]
Edited by: sableye on 03/01/2007 19:40:08 no thx, plus why would they even have to bother splitting it they could just add more servers and systems it would be just as effective and keep the oen universe sure you;d still get problems if you went to jita but you know how many times Ive needed togo to jita to buy something, never. Join The Fight With Promo Today |

Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:39:00 -
[13]
No.
Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to. |

PanzerGrenadier
Caldari Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:39:00 -
[14]
Quit Eve.
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Dekiri
Exanimo Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:40:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dekiri on 03/01/2007 19:41:04
Originally by: Meleena Ruin
Originally by: Dekiri go play wow
Why would I want to go play a stupid game like that?
Because they do exactly what you suggest. Oh and they also have lag =P
The internationality of EVE is something that is a core part of the game and in game politics. It would be VERY sad to see something like this happen. You apparently don't know much about the game yet or you would realize that.
--------------------------------- Exanimo Inc. - Mercs for hire Join channel "CONTRACT EXAN" in game if you wish to hire Exanimo Inc. Or contact cptblood or kakanur |

darklegionca
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:40:00 -
[16]
wow you guys ***** and cry that theres lag then one person actualy has a brain here and thinks 4 servers would be better well you know what it would, then you people could find somthing else to ***** and cry about case closed ------------------------------------ darklegionca - One name. One legend. |

Voculus
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:41:00 -
[17]
Absolutely not. One of the most interesting things about my year in EVE, so far, is all the people I've come know outside of North America. _________________________________________________________
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Tachy
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:42:00 -
[18]
Go away. The one server fits all (but the politically disabled citizens of a certain country) is what makes EVE special.
I love meeting people from all over the world. I tasted it first in EQ and I wont miss it. Some people think it is cool to meet the same stooges from the next village every day at the same time. That's okay, it's what they enjoy. But it is just not what I enjoy about being on the internet.
---
Btw. if you really want to, then go ahead and offer ccp a well thought out business plan. ccp repeatedly stated that they have no problem doing more deals like the Serenity one - if someone is interested in running his own server farm. Prepare to dish out a serious amount of money to get the server up and running. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |

Altaree
Gallente Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:44:00 -
[19]
Here is some linky goodness from the devblogs: devblog 1 Oveurs eve architecture blog
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Zomiaen
Gallente Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Zomiaen on 03/01/2007 19:45:08 No. All we need is people to branch out from the core systems into 0.0, lag problems solved, EVE handles twice as many people.
If the server cluster was split up I'd no longer be able to contact 50% of my corporation... _________________________
pirates wear pink! - eris was herrrrrrre
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Calderio
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:47:00 -
[21]
no, there isnt enough people in eve to kill yet rwar sig Listen to me on bob radio 00:00 eve time every friday and saturday http://stream1.bobonair.com:8000/listen-broadband.aac.m3u or go to www.bobonair.com |

Kharakan
Amarr Morticus Impendium
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:48:00 -
[22]
To be honest, you don't have the proverbial snowball in hell's chance of getting this through anyways, so I'm not going to waste time arguing. Just pointing it out ;)
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Gothikia
Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:50:00 -
[23]
NEVA! and if that ever happens, i'll just cancel all 3 accounts...  _________________________ ISD pwned my last sig.. just imagine a really hawt guy with cool eye makeup on and a pic of a deimos with my name on it... gothie > mods tbh, muahaha
one love, gothie |

Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:53:00 -
[24]
Nope.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |

awwsd
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:54:00 -
[25]
lets all wardec him and griefffff him to leave 
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Gut Punch
Gallente The Revenant
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Posted - 2007.01.03 19:57:00 -
[26]
Heck no. If CCP hits at that, which they have done just the opposite, I'm out of here. ---
Gut Punch The Revenant --- Playing as Caldari is EVE on Easy Mode... |

Togakure
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:14:00 -
[27]
I am not exaggerating when I say, I will quit Eve if they ever shard the universe. And no, you can't have my stuff.
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Hysenthlay
Minmatar The Merchant Marines Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Voculus Absolutely not. One of the most interesting things about my year in EVE, so far, is all the people I've come know outside of North America.
QFT
No way I would enjoy EvE if you took away my Euro, East Euro, Ausi, Asia, etc friends. ____________________________ Silflay Hraka U Embleer Rah |

Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kaaii
no
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RedFall
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:27:00 -
[30]
Edited by: RedFall on 03/01/2007 20:30:34 I agree with OP. While we're at it, let's separate the universe and have two servers each. One for empire and one for 0.0 so that you can stay in empire without having to worry about ganking. 
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TheFirstInquisitor
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:32:00 -
[31]
How do I put this, the majority of Eve players are Europeans from what I gather, so it wouldent be just a few people splitting it nicely onto Americas and Europe. If you wanted to do that it would be Noethern Europe, Souther Europe, and throw the East and Americas on one server. The numbers may have changed alot since i last looked, but it wouldent work anyway. TQ is the only server, will be the only server. Serenity sounds very, very boring, so why go onto your regional server, even if charecters themselves are moved to the new server. What will be interesting is how long it will take TQ to be expected to sustain 100k peeps at once, we have around 30k now and the more peeps that are already on the more rapidly we can expect the playerpace to grow. While we are on the topic, when CCP claim over 250k playerbase or something, do they inculde dead trial accounts and the like?...
Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross. |

Calisto Cody
Minmatar The Black Swan Society
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:35:00 -
[32]
no
Originally by: Sergio Ling
Originally by: Butter Dog but I'm professional enough to keep my mouth shut about what I know.
i can't imagine that's true
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Cryten Jones
Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lorth I demand my own personal server.
I would love a EvE personal server with say 2 client connections and a single solar system to use as a sort of sandpit for ship fittings and POS loadouts.
Sort of a 'Real Shipfit' :D
-CJ
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CrayC
Gallente CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: TheFirstInquisitor While we are on the topic, when CCP claim over 250k playerbase or something, do they inculde dead trial accounts and the like?...
If I remember correctly, Hellmar stated at the FanFest a number surpassing 1 million, but that included the dead accounts. Don't know where you got the 250k from...
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CrayC
Gallente CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:43:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cryten Jones I would love a EvE personal server with say 2 client connections and a single solar system to use as a sort of sandpit for ship fittings and POS loadouts.
Use Singularity 
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Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:46:00 -
[36]
Originally by: CrayC
Originally by: Cryten Jones I would love a EvE personal server with say 2 client connections and a single solar system to use as a sort of sandpit for ship fittings and POS loadouts.
Use Singularity 
You mean when it decides to NOT lag you to death? ;)
But seriously, OP, die. Die and self-destruct a head full of implants on a newbie clone. Then do it again. ----------------------------
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
WTB: Friggin' portrait |

Mitten
Caldari Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:47:00 -
[37]
Tbh, each country should have its own server located out of the most populated city of said country.
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TheFirstInquisitor
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:50:00 -
[38]
I got that number from 3rd Issue of EON I think, cant find the magasine atm but I beleive thats where I got the figure from, something about the playerbase surpassing the number of people in Iceland or something...
Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross. |

Verus Potestas
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:59:00 -
[39]
Unplug your internets.
--- In third-party forums we trust
Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
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TheFirstInquisitor
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:07:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Verus Potestas Unplug your internets.
Internets? Plural, I have seen this before, whats it all about?
Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross. |

Verus Potestas
Caldari The I-Win Button
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:09:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Verus Potestas on 03/01/2007 21:09:52
Originally by: TheFirstInquisitor
Originally by: Verus Potestas Unplug your internets.
Internets? Plural, I have seen this before, whats it all about?
Welcome to the interblag
--- In third-party forums we trust
Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
|
|

Karass Sayfo
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department

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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:10:00 -
[42]
Thread cleaned a bit, although you may not agree with the OP, please refrain from outright flaming and trolling. Thanks! _______
|
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Lone Bear
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:12:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Lone Bear on 03/01/2007 21:13:49
Use that lil' button spelled "D-E-L-E-T-E" after your login screen.
bu-bye.
Edit: Karass, you got a lovely sig 
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Draec Sjet
Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:21:00 -
[44]
no, eve is better than ALL other MMORPGs (cough WoW cough) because of no sharding and ALL MMORPGS get lag, it's just what happens. deal with it.
|

Sgt Blade
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:31:00 -
[45]
devide eve and probley 75% of the players will leave, its pretty much the main point why many of us play. you just need to move out from hte heavy areas if your really annoyed with the lag and only go there for supplys  Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |

Scetrov
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:31:00 -
[46]
Part of the draw of EVE for me is having one world, I can go to anyone who understands EVE and say that I am Scetrov from EVE and people know how to contact me in-game, someone says "I am in Evoloution" and I know the type of corporation they are a member of.
It gives a personal identity that you don't get in sharded game, with 4 shards you could say, "I am in Evoloution" and you might mean the Corp. in BoB on TQ, the Industrialist Corp. on Serenity or the PvP Pirate Wing of the Lonetrek Maffia on the Americas Server. --
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Major Stormer
Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:43:00 -
[47]
No
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Rowdy Yates
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:46:00 -
[48]
I say we build a wall and put the people we don't like on the other side.
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Bael'Zhaeron
Minmatar E X O D U S
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:51:00 -
[49]
Why eve is crowded is due to the fact that we have WTZ instead of mwd/AB to gates which would require more time spent traveling and would open up alot more tactics in the game such as holding a gate or trying to get out of a system. And you will not see the big alliances take over regions every other day. Actually the only thing slowing it down is POS wars.
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Glengrant
Minmatar TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.03 22:11:00 -
[50]
We absolutely need a shard ... ... so we can put those who keep asking for shards there. :-)
That 100 or so players can than have their own little Eve cluster and the rest of us is spared yet another message about this. ;-)
TQ is *not* crowded. It's not even close to being crowded.
Anybody asking for a shard does not understand Eve.
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Glassback
M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.03 22:13:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Meleena Ruin I am tired of performance issues and lag problems. The community is getting so big now, we might as well face the fact that it would be good to split us up. 25K+ players all the time is really making space crowded and small.
Tranquility: Europe and its neighbors Serenity: Citizens of China New Server: The Americas New Server: Far East (for people who don't live in China)
Get your stuff and get out.
G.
I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about.
|

Bon Hedus
Amarr O.E.C
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Posted - 2007.01.03 22:23:00 -
[52]
Nope. I've been playing with a group of people from all around the world for many years. Played together in Jumpgate to SWG to Eve. I wouldn't want to loose them as they are some of the greatest friends around. -------------------------------------- Heavy Lag Spike II belonging to EvE Cluster Node #0815 hits your Connection, wrecking your latency to 998ms |

Athren Soulsteal
Gallente Intergalaxy Salvage And Repair
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Posted - 2007.01.03 22:30:00 -
[53]
The real solution is to have a reasion to get out of the crowded systems (not forced out).
Yes its laggy even in systems that only you are in due to the server also hosting a popular system (most of the servers host multiple systems). But if there was a reasion to have the people disperse and spread out from the saturated systems it would be a lot less laggy. One shard if fine with as few people a play EVE, being a niche game does have it's benifits.
To the OP, if your constantly in a laggy system try moving to a diffrent region. There are actualy lower populated regions that offer just as much as the densly populated ones.
Quote: Think about the people that did fight you fairly. Think.... that were honorable and helped you out in times of need. Those are the real heroes of EVE.
I wish I could fit all the Quote |

Antodias
Puppets on Steroids
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Posted - 2007.01.03 22:54:00 -
[54]
About the 100 millionth time this idea has been dug up.
No. 99.9% people will leave, including me. The community _is_ EVE. ------------------------------------ It's great being a Dev, isn't it? |

Kerushi
Caldari BIG R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.03 22:56:00 -
[55]
hell no!
we just need bypasses around crowded systems so u don`t have to go trough it even if u don`t want to
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:05:00 -
[56]
No.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:10:00 -
[57]
I'm an american living in europe. I'd prefer you not make decissions for me. Also I rather like the international flavor EVE has and it would be quite a bit less without it.
What really shoots this questionable idea in the arse is that it is a false logic to assume that splitting the community up would solve lag problems.
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Necrosmith
Gallente Eth3real
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Voculus Absolutely not. One of the most interesting things about my year in EVE, so far, is all the people I've come know outside of North America.
/signed
I love playing with, chatting with people from all over the world. It's very refreshing.
Best Regards,
--Necro
------------- "Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both." |

Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:19:00 -
[59]
It was said before, having just one server is one of the core attributes of the EVE universe. It is one of the main reasons I spent time in this virtual world. If anything, I would like to get it bigger, definitly not smaller.
Juwi Kotch
JOIN NOW, KLICK SIG! |

De'Hestus
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:21:00 -
[60]
My first reaction was to say "**** no". But as I've gotten to thinking about it, I would tenetively be interested if the suggestion was made to create a roleplaying server.
But a bunch of new servers just because someone is whining about the lag in the core systems? Here's a hint, get the hell out of Jita.
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Usha Lamia
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:22:00 -
[61]
Must and will stay as one.
I for one enjoy ppl saying good morning to me at 6 in the evening .
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Professor Wilkins
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:25:00 -
[62]
this is the only big game that allows people to be together on one big server. The problem with Jita is that it is a THE meeting point for killing, buying and selling and I think CCP should invest more equipment for a node dedicated to that central meeting area
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Chade Malloy
Anarchy Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.01.04 00:19:00 -
[63]
No.
Eve runs on one server (well, there is the extra china server, but since its for chinese people only it could be on the moon as well) and thats it.
The mayor problems with systems like Jita is that ONE system still gets no more than ONE cpu from the server. Most cpus in the cluster manage entire constellations, but one highly frequented system canŠt be shared by lets say two or three cpus.
I for myself stay as far away from jita and the likes as possible.
Originally by: Oveur Jesus Christ. The Freighter ate the Stargate god and the Dreadnought didn't!
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.04 00:40:00 -
[64]
I endorse this idea. I think sharded clusters are good for eVe because they will be less overcrowded, less lag, less e-murderers, fun fleet warfare, less POS ping pong warfare, more subscriber capacity. One cluster for normal eVe, one cluster for Americas, one cluster for Europe and one cluster for Asia. In my humble opinion, it is good for eVe in the long term. More players are good. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. |

Spei Prodetor
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Posted - 2007.01.04 02:21:00 -
[65]
fixing/adding hubs solves half the problem and adding more 0.0 gateways would do alot to =p do taht and it gives ppl more reasons to be elsewhere.
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Brunswick2
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2007.01.04 02:41:00 -
[66]
One important part of EVE for me is being able to play with Euros. I wouldn't appreciate being split from my corp because of additional servers being made.
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Meleena Ruin
Exercitus Ruina
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Posted - 2007.01.04 02:59:00 -
[67]
With all due respect, I do appreciate everyone's opinions.
The one thing I would miss if Eve was set on different clusters for different geo regions would be the interaction I have with people from around the world. I do love the international part. Its been great getting to know other people from other countries.
But what I have found from posting my two topics today, Dividing the World (Chinese citizens should play on on the China server), and Dividing the World #2 (We need 4 servers instead of 1), is that posting on the forums is a pointless endeavor, an exercise in utter futility.
First of all I was misunderstood and accused of being racist and disrepectful which is the farthest from the truth.
Second, people didn't bother to read all my posts before they lashed out. Even a forum moderator that locked my other topic said I was being disrespectful. I plainly said in my posts that I do not have a problem with people of Chinese heritage. My only beef is with macroers, and that doesn't have anything to do with ethnicity. I am not a bigot: I hate racism in all its forms.
Yes, I am hostile towards macro scumbags that ruin the economy and break the Eula, and the absolute truth of my experience for over a year is a huge number that I have encountered in The Forge have all been from Asia (China mainly)that have admitted their activities. My feelings for them are the same feelings I have for all macro cheaters no matter where they live in the real world.
Futility! I hate the forums, and I will never post again with any of my characters.
Moderators: You can lock or delete all my post/topics for all my characters. I don't care anymore.
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ollobrains
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.04 03:03:00 -
[68]
CCP have stated the server can be upgraded and scaled up as much as they want - where these problems come from are a) not enough nodes b) jump gates c) otehr bugs that are causing memory leaks
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.04 03:36:00 -
[69]
A Euro server would be great. 20k people online at peak time and ~36 online at 4am.
What a great use of resources!
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Meleena Ruin
Exercitus Ruina
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Posted - 2007.01.04 05:02:00 -
[70]
Please delete/lock thread. Thanks.
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Daddy's Belt
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.04 05:37:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Meleena Ruin Please delete/lock thread. Thanks.
HAHA, damn. Someone got owned.
Someone's gonna get a buttwhippin'! |

Tachy
|
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:50:00 -
[72]
Esiest way to get a thread locked without a warning is to send an email with the link to [email protected]
I guess you learned to check the way you post before hitting the 'Post Reply' button. You other opening post sounded pretty racist because of your use of widely generalising statements.
You finished your skill posting on the internet [3].  --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |

Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.01.04 07:03:00 -
[73]
IBTL 
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Conuion Meow
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department

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Posted - 2007.01.04 07:23:00 -
[74]
Locked at the request of the OP.
IWTL! *ker-click*
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