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x64 version of the eve client.. Without dx10?

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Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:37:00 - [31] Well lets put it this way this is what i have now! Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM SATA II RAID and support for 11 drives Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Supports 16 gig or RAM By the time i upgrade my RAM i will have over 1000 gig hard drive space and close to 16 gig of ram so when windows vista x64 is out and the new eve is out i will have a great PC .. Plus there are no drivers out yet half the hardware i have on this system.
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 10:48:28 Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "Locking down ports"? "Disabling user accounts"? By definition, under an operating system like Linux with proper permissions, User accounts are safe, as they can only edit their own home directories. Vista is attempting to do this but will likely fail, as XP failed also. Linux is far less "complicated" than Windows, because it has an architecture that makes sense. Windows, on the other hand, has the infamous DLL Hell and the registry, which turn an already complicated operating system into something completely and totally unmanageable. On the topic, I hope that CCP releases a non-Vista 64-bit version of EVE. A 64-bit version is literally a recompile that takes 30-60 minutes. Nothing more. And I don't think anyone is going to be wasting a gigabyte of RAM and 10 gigabytes of hard disk space to buy an operating system that restricts what they can do with their system and is the slowest operating system in world history. If I buy a Vista machine, I will wipe it as soon as I get it. Heh, you have absolutely no idea what you're taking about. DLL hell has not really been an issue for awhile, I code in .net so it doesn't really concern me. If linux was so good and so simple to use it would have a wider install base, simple as that. Slowest operating system in history? Where the hell do you get your facts? We have been benching it here at work for the last 6 months and it IS FASTER than XP. Boohoo, you have to get some more memory, and complaining about 10gb of hdd space considering most standard systems come with 120-220gb of hdd space these days. Only think you can complain about is Digital Rights Management, which the hardware has to support for it to work in the first place. You will also find this coming to Linux in the future. -=====-
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:21:00 - [33] Originally by: GouldFish The thing is that most of intels so called 64bit processors are not, they hvae the 64bit commands but still do all the work in 32bit. Strange... I thought this was the sole reason why everyone uses AMD64 as opposed to IA64 architectures... As for the whole Linux/Windows debate, I have to say only a few things. First of all, Linux is too complex for any sort of average user to use properly and securely. Support for Linux is also incredibly poor, relying upon users asking questions in a public forum that someone may or may not actually answer. Professional support is extremely limited. Second, Windows is a 32 bit extension to a 16 bit graphical shell for an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:47:00 - [34] SLI support would be great
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:53:00 - [35] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 20:49:56 Originally by: MysticNZ DLL hell has not really been an issue for awhile, I code in .net so it doesn't really concern me. DLL Hell affects users, not developers, generally. It doesn't matter that you code in .Net when hardly anyone else does. Originally by: MysticNZ If linux was so good and so simple to use it would have a wider install base, simple as that. It doesn't have a 300-billion-dollar company behind it breaking countless laws in an attempt to force it upon the world. Originally by: MysticNZ Slowest operating system in history? Where the hell do you get your facts? We have been benching it here at work for the last 6 months and it IS FASTER than XP. Faster when it has to poll every single device every 30 milliseconds just to keep DRM in line? I don't think so. Last I heard this hurt performance by up to 10%. Originally by: MysticNZ Boohoo, you have to get some more memory, and complaining about 10gb of hdd space considering most standard systems come with 120-220gb of hdd space these days. I have to dedicate 1GB to an operating system... why? What do I get in return? Every single remotely useful feature Vista was going to have (such as WinFS) has been tossed to the wayside during the development process. Initially I was quite interested, but they seemed to have tossed everything useful yet kept the bloat. You'd think they'd go hand in hand, but apparently not... -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:33:00 - [36] what do you use all that drive space for??? don't say rendering fractals or something because i won't believe you :p Originally by: Hilabana Well lets put it this way this is what i have now! Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM SATA II RAID and support for 11 drives Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Supports 16 gig or RAM By the time i upgrade my RAM i will have over 1000 gig hard drive space and close to 16 gig of ram so when windows vista x64 is out and the new eve is out i will have a great PC .. Plus there are no drivers out yet half the hardware i have on this system.
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 20:49:56 Originally by: MysticNZ DLL hell has not really been an issue for awhile, I code in .net so it doesn't really concern me. DLL Hell affects users, not developers, generally. It doesn't matter that you code in .Net when hardly anyone else does. Originally by: MysticNZ If linux was so good and so simple to use it would have a wider install base, simple as that. It doesn't have a 300-billion-dollar company behind it breaking countless laws in an attempt to force it upon the world. Originally by: MysticNZ Slowest operating system in history? Where the hell do you get your facts? We have been benching it here at work for the last 6 months and it IS FASTER than XP. Faster when it has to poll every single device every 30 milliseconds just to keep DRM in line? I don't think so. Last I heard this hurt performance by up to 10%. Originally by: MysticNZ Boohoo, you have to get some more memory, and complaining about 10gb of hdd space considering most standard systems come with 120-220gb of hdd space these days. I have to dedicate 1GB to an operating system... why? What do I get in return? Every single remotely useful feature Vista was going to have (such as WinFS) has been tossed to the wayside during the development process. Initially I was quite interested, but they seemed to have tossed everything useful yet kept the bloat. You'd think they'd go hand in hand, but apparently not... Heh, you make me laugh. DLL hell is really a mute point in XP/Vista. Don't even know why you are using this as an argument. Lots of people code in .net. Like I said, with the DRM, the hardware has to support it or this polling doesn't even happen. You don't need 1gb dedicated to the os, it uses around 480-520 in our tests with full aero on. I like how in most threads you heard this and that has happened. Yeah well, I heard pigs can fly too. WinFS is going to be released at a later date, probably as Vista R2 like Win2k3. What do you mean bloat? Install a full linux distro and then complain to be about bloat. -=====-
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:06:00 - [38] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 17/01/2007 22:05:17 Originally by: George Petsch Well, master of blue robots, you are mistaken here. Obviously you've never seen Vista perform in real world, you've never seen the principle of "least user rights" aka user account control, plus you've never run any benchmarks on any vista machine. Obviously your only source of information are some -3 modded down trolls on slashdot, because that is what your post sounds like. I'm proactivley evaluating Windows Vista since mid december, I won't go into details here, but I can safely say: you're wrong. Please, do not spread such FUD rumors about an OS you know nothing about. Should you decide to open you mind a bit and actually learn something, I'm availible for any questions about my personal experience with Windows Vista & EVE ingame. I triple boot Windows XP, Vista RTM and Ubuntu Edgy Eft on my computer, specs follow: Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4ghz Conroe) Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 2048MB DDR800 CL5 RAM (2x 1028MB DIMMs, dual channel) PNY Geforce 7950GT Using the nVidia RTM drivers in Vista: 1. 3dmark06 produces major artifacts 2. facial textures in Oblivion do not render 3. there is an approximate 10% performance hit in EVE compared with Windows XP. There are no issues with graphics in Windows XP, and all of the issues I had with graphics in Vista show up in a google search on the subject. I would also like to note that I run Beryl with the nVidia render platform under Edgy Eft and it is much more responsive than the Vista window manager. This is likely due to poor nVidia drivers in Vista. Limited user accounts in Vista are a joke - its more of an annoyance than anything; gksudo does a much better job of prompting for permissions and then not bothering you again for a within that app. For example, I tried to copy my eve directories into program files on my vista install and was prompted to give explorer.exe permissions and then give permissions for the copy operations 5 times. I suspect this is a bug, but I could have done the same thing on the command line in a nix based system using a single pipeline. Vista does have a lot of nifty little features, but I suggest people wait at least a year, theres a lot of little problems that MS (and manufacturers) will likely fix before then. More on topic... Originally by:* Dark Shikari On the topic, I hope that CCP releases a non-Vista 64-bit version of EVE. A 64-bit version is literally a recompile that takes 30-60 minutes. Nothing more. It might be as simple as a recompile. It might not. You'd be surprised what a little bit of magical inline assembly does to execution speed (and stuff compiled under MS's compiler need all the help it can get - g++ and icc make msc look horrible). EDIT: One last thing to Dark Shikari - theres plenty of things wrong with Vista. Using up 1gig of memory on boot is not one of them. Complaing about vista using 500megs of ram, not 1000. (Edgy uses around 200MB on boot, and thats with beryl) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:25:00 - [39] Well i've heard bad things about Nvidia drivers. Our tests were done using a ATI x700 256mb. -=====-
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:32:00 - [40] Well I'll admit I skipped most of this discussion but I thought I'd point something out. I seriously doubt the "classic" client will derive any benefit from 64bits. Without going into a lot of game design specifics a space game like EvE just doesn't have the resource requirements to need more than 2gb of memory usually. The new vista client might push that wall but probably not the "classic" client. So in other words if you have to run the dx9 version in 32 bit it really won't matter.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:52:00 - [41] Originally by: Sorela So in other words if you have to run the dx9 version in 32 bit it really won't matter. One thing I'd like to point out in all this: The current eve client is barely using DX8 features, let alone DX9. Sure, it requires that you get the latest version of DX, but it certainly isn't using it! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:57:00 - [42] Originally by: Hllaxiu One thing I'd like to point out in all this: The current eve client is barely using DX8 features, let alone DX9. Sure, it requires that you get the latest version of DX, but it certainly isn't using it! I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to point out by quoting me and saying this but I thought I should clarify that when I said "dx9 version" I mean the new client that's coming out in the future which is restricted to dx9 only.
Nehroon Pagani	Posted - 2007.01.18 02:50:00 - [43] if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. Yay! Linux snobbery FTW!
Feerax FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 03:31:00 - [44] Originally by: MrTriggerHappy Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Arimus Darkhart Real shame that as they're starting from scratch with the engine they couldn't move over to OpenGL which would make a native linux client alot easier :) (There are two reasons only why XP remains on my laptop - Eve and Adobe photoshop/lightroom - if Eve goes to linux then I'll get another cheep desktop for photoediting) I lost a laptop do to that crapy Linux and there so called support .. It seems that hackers can get in to Linux with out even trying. I like safer and the more tested software. So i will pay for better software. and with this type of system i will not trust Linux. Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Ehhhh you do know Linux is more secure than windows right? I have never had a single issue out of windows or any of the exploits as I do not put all my eggs into one piece of software... Linux just comes with the extra software by default, not to mention 90% of the builds are a pure pain in the ass to find compatible software for that I use daily. Usability > Security
Templer Relleg Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.18 09:52:00 - [45] Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/01/2007 09:49:35 Dudes, this is not a "Vista sucks", or "Linux is better then windows", because that is pure ignorence. Its a matter of perspective. Keep it from a flamewar, thank you. I just want to know how its going to work, if we do get the native 64bit eve client(Which is comming, from what i have heard) with Dx9, or if we need dx10 to get 64bit client.
George Petsch Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:33:00 - [46] Originally by: Templer Relleg Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/01/2007 09:49:35 Dudes, this is not a "Vista sucks", or "Linux is better then windows", because that is pure ignorence. Its a matter of perspective. Keep it from a flamewar, thank you. I just want to know how its going to work, if we do get the native 64bit eve client(Which is comming, from what i have heard) with Dx9, or if we need dx10 to get 64bit client. k, back on topic then let's have a look on what is possible: WindowsXP 32-Bit running DX9 WindowsXP 64-Bit running DX9 WindowsVista 32-Bit running DX10 WindowsVista 64-Bit running DX10 now, DX10 is a Vista exclusive, so I think the answer is obvious: The DX10 Eve will be a Vista exclusive, and if a 64-Bit Version will be produced it will be Vista(DX10) exclusive too. I can't imagine that they code a Vista/DX10 client AND a XP/DX9 client in both 32 and 64 bit, so I think that CCP will go for the more advanced technology, which in this case is Windows Vista/DX10, be it 32 or 64 Bit. So, Editions that sound feasible to me: EVE for XP/dx9, 32-Bit (the one we already have) EVE for Vista/dx10, 32-Bit (the logical successor) EVE for Vista/dx10, 64-Bit (same code branch, recompiled for ppl who like it) im in ur safespots pwning ur canz
Svanh Mickahl Infinite Dreams Inc	Posted - 2007.01.18 13:31:00 - [47] Well for a moment ignoring the Vista bashing:-) The idea of a true 64 bit client is nice, I thought SLI was a driver issue not a game issue, if not then switch to crossfire :-) Lastly I would LOVE to see true multithreaded support for dual and quad core procesors. For limitless possibilities, you need Infinite Dreams ====================================== Svanh Mickahl CEO, Infinite Dreams

Redundancy	Posted - 2007.01.18 13:50:00 - [48] You're missing Vista x32/x64 DX9. With a bit of fiddling, you can run the current client in Vista, and we'll be working on better support for the future. We've tried compiling 64 bit versions of the client, and there's a few issues with it at the moment. I suspect that there's a certain inevitability about offering a 64 bit client eventually.

Gothikia Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.18 14:08:00 - [49] Quote: DLL Hell affects users, not developers, generally. It doesn't matter that you code in .Net when hardly anyone else does. DS stfu.. There are more dotnet developers in the world right now than for any other platform. So please check ALL of your facts before posting complete and utter bullcrap.
Hellcore Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.18 14:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Gothikia Quote: DLL Hell affects users, not developers, generally. It doesn't matter that you code in .Net when hardly anyone else does. DS stfu.. There are more dotnet developers in the world right now than for any other platform. So please check ALL of your facts before posting complete and utter bullcrap. I would wage there are far more C/C++/COBOL code monkeys than any other language by far
George Petsch Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 20:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Redundancy You're missing Vista x32/x64 DX9. With a bit of fiddling, you can run the current client in Vista, and we'll be working on better support for the future. We've tried compiling 64 bit versions of the client, and there's a few issues with it at the moment. I suspect that there's a certain inevitability about offering a 64 bit client eventually. Yeah, only mentioned the "native" dx version for each OS, for sure, Vista/dx10 fully supports/fallback to dx9 routines. I for one run EVE with 2 clients simultaneously on Windows Vista/dx10, retail version. Works like a charm. im in ur safespots pwning ur canz
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.18 20:59:00 - [52] Originally by: Dark Shikari Linux is far less "complicated" than Windows, because it has an architecture that makes sense. Windows, on the other hand, has the infamous DLL Hell and the registry, which turn an already complicated operating system into something completely and totally unmanageable. The registry is a damned good idea with a poor implementation, so I'll cede that. DLL hell? Have you used Windows in the past decade? I'll take "DLL hell" over the idiocy of RPM, .deb and the rest any day of the week. The only distro approaching usability in terms of non-conflict is Gentoo, and it's rather a pain in the arse unless you can suffer lengthy compile times. Originally by: Dark Shikari On the topic, I hope that CCP releases a non-Vista 64-bit version of EVE. A 64-bit version is literally a recompile that takes 30-60 minutes. I could nitpick about the time given and the fact that adjustments to the code may very well have to be made. However, converting from 32 bit to 64 bit isn't a massive undertaking by any means. I'd kill for a 64 bit client for EVE that isn't dependant on Vista. Originally by: Dark Shikari And I don't think anyone is going to be wasting a gigabyte of RAM and 10 gigabytes of hard disk space to buy an operating system that restricts what they can do with their system and is the slowest operating system in world history. Depends on how much RAM drops. I've been looking for a reason to shove 16 GB into me Opteron. Seriously, though, no one gives a damn about performance in the desktop world. The death of Windows has been often foretold, and has yet to happen. No one was going to switch to 98, or ME, or XP. People will switch for several reasons. First, XP x64 will go the way of end of life, while 64-bit processors will continue to advance. Second, DX10 - heaven forbid the mere mortal is left without shinier graphics. Finally, it'll come on new computers. Few people, when considering the market as a whole, are going to wipe Vista just to install XP or anything else for that matter. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
solarwinds ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:16:00 - [53] I currently run Vista and EVE on Vista with no modifications. I use whatever drivers it installed by default. I have been a part of a Vista/Office 2007 technology adopter program since October. It is running on a Dell D620 laptop with Core Duo 1.83Ghz, 1GB RAM, 60GB hard disk, and crappy Intel 945GM integrated graphics. With my antivirus/antispyware/firewall, WSUS client, Outlook 2007, IE 7, several terminal server windows, Office Communicator, and custom service delivery applications running Vista uses 490MB RAM. It is very responsive and reliable. It had never hung or crashed since installation and often goes two or three weeks without rebooting with no discernable performance degredation. Network performance has increased considerably over Windows XP, Solaris, and Red Had Linux in back-to-back testing. More importantly, EVE runs flawlessly on it. "Boss mode" is great, minimize the client while doing noob-corp hauling/trading and mouse over the app on the taskbar and the Aero preview shows exactly what is going on - just too cool. I have even run 2 clients at the same time with good performance - one client was involved in a fleet battle and the other was perfectly responsive. To date, I am very pleased with the Vista experience and plan to purchase a new PC with Vista preinstalled that at least exceeds the performance of my work laptop, which shouldn't be too difficult. All you need is enough graphics horsepower to run Aero, everything else out there already (CPU/memory architecture/hard disk) performs very well in the Vista Experience rating (my integrated video only scores 2.2 out of 5). Originally by: Lygos Plus y'know we're the f#cking Inst'l Stahbase Syndicate.
Madphly	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:53:00 - [54] a good link for reference for what windows vista is incorporating as far as digital rights management. http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-073.htm The drm modulation is going to ugly at best - i hope for some stripped down version on irc else i'm not "upgrading" to vista. The fact is, you actually lose some functionality as far as media goes. I'd bet an intelligent artistic crowd like the eve playerbase will have plenty of gripes about the changes.
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 00:58:00 - [55] Originally by: Madphly a good link for reference for what windows vista is incorporating as far as digital rights management. http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-073.htm The drm modulation is going to ugly at best - i hope for some stripped down version on irc else i'm not "upgrading" to vista. The fact is, you actually lose some functionality as far as media goes. I'd bet an intelligent artistic crowd like the eve playerbase will have plenty of gripes about the changes. Interesting read/listen... The next one is pretty nice too, and more about vista: http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-074.htm --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
Iratus Caelestis KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 01:11:00 - [56] In fairness to Microsoft (and I hate them right now) UAC is a good principle, however the fact that it doesn't work is mostly down to application developers assuming admin privelidges, if the app doesn't assume that or try and run privilidged actions then you don't even know its there. If it needs to then it prompts you, exactly the same as SU'ing in Unix. That said Microsoft have given you admin access by default for the last 11 years so just about every app assumes you will have it :) 64 Bit client would be ftw, so would multi threading, so would SLI. But 64 Bit clients are down on my priority list, get the newly rewritten client out and then start thinking about 64bit imho as it's not going to make that much difference in its current state beyond installing to c:\program files instead of the x86 directory.
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.19 02:28:00 - [57] Vista Ultimate is only about ú135 OEM. Which for a piece of software you use everytime you turn on your computer and is just as important as any hardware part, and will more then likely outlast your hardware, it really isn't that bad. If you have it and use it for 5 years, that works out at only ú27 a year.
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 02:52:00 - [58] Vista is a Mac OS X ripoff! Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 03:03:00 - [59] someone really thinks vista will be more secure than linux? your in for a shock if you think vista is going to be anywhere near "relatively safe" until probably service pack 2 which is why you will find alot of people wont buy it until there has been atleast 1 service pack , they have previous experience of buying an ms os near the release date
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.19 05:23:00 - [60] Originally by: Anatolius I'll take "DLL hell" over the idiocy of RPM, .deb and the rest any day of the week. The only distro approaching usability in terms of non-conflict is Gentoo, and it's rather a pain in the arse unless you can suffer lengthy compile times. Have you used Linux (or BSD or OSX) in the past decade? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson

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