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x64 version of the eve client.. Without dx10?

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Templer Relleg Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:06:00 - [1] So. I just talked on the eve-chaos irc channel. A guy said that the vista client is supposed to support x64. As far as i understand: Eve Classic - 32bit and dx9 Eve Vista - 64bit and Dx10 1) So, if you have a x64 bit XP, will we be stuck with a 32bit client? 2) If i have Vista x64, but no dx10, will we have to use the 32bit client? To sum it up: Is it either all(x64 and dx10) or nothing(x86 and dx9) Thank you
Nicholas Barker Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:23:00 - [2] x64 4tw ------------------------------------- I know more than you do, bugger off!
Sophism Amarr Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:28:00 - [3] /signed :)
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:39:00 - [4] The whole point of the new engine is to re-write it from the ground up around DX10, so I wouldn't expect it will support DX9, that would be what the old/DX9 client is for. Wether they added 64 bit support to the DX9 client when they upgrade its graphics elements with what they learn from writing the new one would probably depend on how difficult it was, if not very I'm sure they'd port that work over also. Oh, and vista can be 32 bit or 64 bit, so presumably the DX10 client will support both (Though if you dont have a rig modern enough to be 64 bit, I'm not sure why you would need vista anyhow) . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.17 07:46:00 - [5] I do hope they add suppot for x64 and SLI do to the fact many of the new systems thats coming out now have that ! And the real game people have even more then that in there systems.
Arimus Darkhart Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.17 07:50:00 - [6] Real shame that as they're starting from scratch with the engine they couldn't move over to OpenGL which would make a native linux client alot easier :) (There are two reasons only why XP remains on my laptop - Eve and Adobe photoshop/lightroom - if Eve goes to linux then I'll get another cheep desktop for photoediting)
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.17 08:03:00 - [7] one or either i dare say time to upgrade to vista asap
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.17 08:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Arimus Darkhart Real shame that as they're starting from scratch with the engine they couldn't move over to OpenGL which would make a native linux client alot easier :) (There are two reasons only why XP remains on my laptop - Eve and Adobe photoshop/lightroom - if Eve goes to linux then I'll get another cheep desktop for photoediting) I lost a laptop do to that crapy Linux and there so called support .. It seems that hackers can get in to Linux with out even trying. I like safer and the more tested software. So i will pay for better software. and with this type of system i will not trust Linux. Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB
Drilla Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.17 08:09:00 - [9] Just get Vista and a new computer - how hard is it? Seek not to bar my way, for I shall win through - no matter the cost!
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.17 08:56:00 - [10] Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Arimus Darkhart Real shame that as they're starting from scratch with the engine they couldn't move over to OpenGL which would make a native linux client alot easier :) (There are two reasons only why XP remains on my laptop - Eve and Adobe photoshop/lightroom - if Eve goes to linux then I'll get another cheep desktop for photoediting) I lost a laptop do to that crapy Linux and there so called support .. It seems that hackers can get in to Linux with out even trying. I like safer and the more tested software. So i will pay for better software. and with this type of system i will not trust Linux. Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Ehhhh you do know Linux is more secure than windows right? My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
ZinderX500 Caldari BLUE EAGLES O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.17 09:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Arimus Darkhart Real shame that as they're starting from scratch with the engine they couldn't move over to OpenGL which would make a native linux client alot easier :) (There are two reasons only why XP remains on my laptop - Eve and Adobe photoshop/lightroom - if Eve goes to linux then I'll get another cheep desktop for photoediting) I lost a laptop do to that crapy Linux and there so called support .. It seems that hackers can get in to Linux with out even trying. I like safer and the more tested software. So i will pay for better software. and with this type of system i will not trust Linux. Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Crappy Linux ? Maybe you also tell us that there are more viruses for linux than windows ? uhuh --
Daelmon Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.17 09:20:00 - [12] Only a moron gets a virus on their computer. I much rather use Windows as do 95% of all the people in the world. I will be purchasing Vista and a Directx 10 video card when the new Eve client is released.
xaix ikkul	Posted - 2007.01.17 09:21:00 - [13] Originally by: ZinderX500 Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Arimus Darkhart Real shame that as they're starting from scratch with the engine they couldn't move over to OpenGL which would make a native linux client alot easier :) (There are two reasons only why XP remains on my laptop - Eve and Adobe photoshop/lightroom - if Eve goes to linux then I'll get another cheep desktop for photoediting) I lost a laptop do to that crapy Linux and there so called support .. It seems that hackers can get in to Linux with out even trying. I like safer and the more tested software. So i will pay for better software. and with this type of system i will not trust Linux. Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Crappy Linux ? Maybe you also tell us that there are more viruses for linux than windows ? uhuh if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user.
Hohenheim OfLight Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:10:00 - [14] Originally by: hotgirl933 one or either i dare say time to upgrade to vista asap No to Vista that thing is going to kill your computer, as it probs the GFX card 30 to 60 times a nano second to make sure your nto puping any thing out hte anlog whole. Installing vista on your pc is worse than giving controle o fit to M$ becsue the whole point of vista is to give controle of your pc to MPAA and the RIAA. Why do you think ther eis no direct x 10 for xp becuse they know there is no killer ap to force people to move to vista, so the only way to get vista on to peoples machines is to make the gaming ap of choice other wise we simple woudl not bother. Compains will upgrade regardless cos they have no brains and home uses will prob up grade blindley to. So the only way to force peeps who are on the net and care abou the way there pc works (who tend to be gamers) is to make dx10 vista only. I wont be moving to vista the pc is an open hardware platform not the closed hardwear platform that M4 is trying to make it to apeas hollywood, even thou they dont need to. ---------------------------------------------- Gone but not forgotten
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:49:00 - [15] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 10:48:28 Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "Locking down ports"? "Disabling user accounts"? By definition, under an operating system like Linux with proper permissions, User accounts are safe, as they can only edit their own home directories. Vista is attempting to do this but will likely fail, as XP failed also. Linux is far less "complicated" than Windows, because it has an architecture that makes sense. Windows, on the other hand, has the infamous DLL Hell and the registry, which turn an already complicated operating system into something completely and totally unmanageable. On the topic, I hope that CCP releases a non-Vista 64-bit version of EVE. A 64-bit version is literally a recompile that takes 30-60 minutes. Nothing more. And I don't think anyone is going to be wasting a gigabyte of RAM and 10 gigabytes of hard disk space to buy an operating system that restricts what they can do with their system and is the slowest operating system in world history. If I buy a Vista machine, I will wipe it as soon as I get it. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:53:00 - [16] Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. Compensating much? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
George Petsch Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 12:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 10:48:28 Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. ... ... If I buy a Vista machine, I will wipe it as soon as I get it. Well, master of blue robots, you are mistaken here. Obviously you've never seen Vista perform in real world, you've never seen the principle of "least user rights" aka user account control, plus you've never run any benchmarks on any vista machine. Obviously your only source of information are some -3 modded down trolls on slashdot, because that is what your post sounds like. I'm proactivley evaluating Windows Vista since mid december, I won't go into details here, but I can safely say: you're wrong. Please, do not spread such FUD rumors about an OS you know nothing about. Should you decide to open you mind a bit and actually learn something, I'm availible for any questions about my personal experience with Windows Vista & EVE ingame. im in ur safespots pwning ur canz
GouldFish Unscoped Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 13:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm The whole point of the new engine is to re-write it from the ground up around DX10, so I wouldn't expect it will support DX9, that would be what the old/DX9 client is for. Wether they added 64 bit support to the DX9 client when they upgrade its graphics elements with what they learn from writing the new one would probably depend on how difficult it was, if not very I'm sure they'd port that work over also. Oh, and vista can be 32 bit or 64 bit, so presumably the DX10 client will support both (Though if you dont have a rig modern enough to be 64 bit, I'm not sure why you would need vista anyhow) The thing is that most of intels so called 64bit processors are not, they hvae the 64bit commands but still do all the work in 32bit. And Wow to the rest of the thread, so much rumours and crap and Vista, please go read up on vista properly.
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:05:00 - [19] Originally by: MrTriggerHappy Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Arimus Darkhart Real shame that as they're starting from scratch with the engine they couldn't move over to OpenGL which would make a native linux client alot easier :) (There are two reasons only why XP remains on my laptop - Eve and Adobe photoshop/lightroom - if Eve goes to linux then I'll get another cheep desktop for photoediting) I lost a laptop do to that crapy Linux and there so called support .. It seems that hackers can get in to Linux with out even trying. I like safer and the more tested software. So i will pay for better software. and with this type of system i will not trust Linux. Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Ehhhh you do know Linux is more secure than windows right? Sory to brake this to you it is not! if you did read one of there head people did step down do to they can not fix a number of holes in it. http://www.linux.org/news/2006/01/26/0002.html http://www.linuxsecurity.com/content/blogcategory/72/84/ http://www.linuxsecurity.com/content/view/125183/169/ and any software that blames so many other software for having holes and bugs and still needs Antivirus and Firewalls so locked down that its not funny still has more holes then i need. thats why it is my feeling windows Vista x64 will be better for eve players and many other people. you can put a blind eye to it all you wish but when it comes to software i will pay what i need to pay for what i feel is the best and that looks like windows vista x64! I will go with windows Vista x64 when it comes out ! I know eve will go that way ..
Nina Mires Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:16:00 - [20] tbh i can't stand vista, it's driving me round the bend. Yeah it looks nice but my god it bloated. Oh and User Access Control is a PITA. Back to XP or Linux. Nina ---------
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Daelmon Only a moron gets a virus on their computer. I much rather use Windows as do 95% of all the people in the world. I will be purchasing Vista and a Directx 10 video card when the new Eve client is released. After having watched MS bungle every single release pretty much ever, I will drag my ass as long as I possibly can. I will only upgrade when I have absolutely no other choice.
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:36:00 - [22] i'm in ur vista stealin ur windowz oh noes!!1 alien thing flinging himself forward
Imaldris	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:53:00 - [23] I'm going to buy a new vista gameing computer when it goes live in the next few weeks. Will I need to download a new EVE client?
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.17 16:02:00 - [24] Edited by: MrTriggerHappy on 17/01/2007 16:00:47 The biggest problem with vista.. There's 4 versions http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/editions/default.mspx The version you'll get if you buy a new PC will be either the useless "basic" or the fairly useful "Premium". However since I need pretty much everything in the "ULTIMATE" package and I don't buy Pre made PC's i'll be expected to spend ú380 (give or take) on the Ultimate edition. I'll be sticking with good ol' XP pro I believe! EDIT: Also my Linux partition and to Hilbana.. M$ has a lot more security problems than you realise, however I would like to know which Distro of Linux you tried? My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Reiisha Satal's Legion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.17 16:50:00 - [25] I'll wait for the second generation DX10 cards and Vista SP2 before i change OS. But for now, i wonder what DX10 games will look like - Crysis already looks freakin awesome in dx9. Let alone that UE4 is also on the way :) EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
probablecause Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.17 17:49:00 - [26] CCP, please compile us a XP x64 users a 64-bit native client. Some googling shows results for stackless python and AMD 64bit chips, maybe it's a simple task. As for the person who tried getting Linux support, well, if you need support beyond googling for error messages, then Linux is not for you. You might consider a Mac, OSX gives a pretty interface and if you dig around for the terminal icon you'll find there's a fully functional POSIX compliant unix-type operating system underneath. Cheers! __________________ "Buttons are not toys"
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.17 17:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Imaldris I'm going to buy a new vista gameing computer when it goes live in the next few weeks. Will I need to download a new EVE client? Nope ... just copy the folder over to the new computer ( burn to DVD, copy, toggle the Read-Only bit or use a USB Transfer tool like SuperLink [ works, I tried ] ) Then start the client and continue as before.
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:06:00 - [28] Originally by: MrTriggerHappy Edited by: MrTriggerHappy on 17/01/2007 16:00:47 However since I need pretty much everything in the "ULTIMATE" package and I don't buy Pre made PC's i'll be expected to spend ú380 (give or take) on the Ultimate edition. For most Home users ( that do need elevated file encryption, Remote Desktop and other bells ) Windows Vista Premium Home is enough ... and the upgrade will cost you only around 160 $US ( whatever that translates to in your local currency ) I've been using Vista Ultimate since mid Dec'06 and those additional features ( apart remote desktop ) are of no use during day to day use.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:43:00 - [29] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 18:42:50 Originally by: George Petsch Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 10:48:28 Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. ... ... If I buy a Vista machine, I will wipe it as soon as I get it. Well, master of blue robots, you are mistaken here. Obviously you've never seen Vista perform in real world, you've never seen the principle of "least user rights" aka user account control, plus you've never run any benchmarks on any vista machine. Obviously your only source of information are some -3 modded down trolls on slashdot, because that is what your post sounds like. I'm proactivley evaluating Windows Vista since mid december, I won't go into details here, but I can safely say: you're wrong. Please, do not spread such FUD rumors about an OS you know nothing about. Should you decide to open you mind a bit and actually learn something, I'm availible for any questions about my personal experience with Windows Vista & EVE ingame. Vista won't even run on my computer because it will use my entire RAM, nearly a gigabyte, on bootup. There are plenty of websites that describe exactly why Vista sucks. Its slow, has vast DRM restrictions, and has worse compatibility than a 1999 version of Red Hat. I am never ever going to use an operating system that requires 100 dollars of memory just to load the OS and kernel. Ever. (Yes, this means I might consider Vista if 1 gigabyte of memory costs 10 dollars) And if you think Microsoft is so trustworthy, here's a message from Microsoft themselves saying how slow Vista is. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Reddof Nonnac	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 18:42:50 Originally by: George Petsch Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 10:48:28 Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. ... ... If I buy a Vista machine, I will wipe it as soon as I get it. Well, master of blue robots, you are mistaken here. Obviously you've never seen Vista perform in real world, you've never seen the principle of "least user rights" aka user account control, plus you've never run any benchmarks on any vista machine. Obviously your only source of information are some -3 modded down trolls on slashdot, because that is what your post sounds like. I'm proactivley evaluating Windows Vista since mid december, I won't go into details here, but I can safely say: you're wrong. Please, do not spread such FUD rumors about an OS you know nothing about. Should you decide to open you mind a bit and actually learn something, I'm availible for any questions about my personal experience with Windows Vista & EVE ingame. Vista won't even run on my computer because it will use my entire RAM, nearly a gigabyte, on bootup. There are plenty of websites that describe exactly why Vista sucks. Its slow, has vast DRM restrictions, and has worse compatibility than a 1999 version of Red Hat. I am never ever going to use an operating system that requires 100 dollars of memory just to load the OS and kernel. Ever. (Yes, this means I might consider Vista if 1 gigabyte of memory costs 10 dollars) And if you think Microsoft is so trustworthy, here's a message from Microsoft themselves saying how slow Vista is. Are you running RTM with "stable" drivers? Vista is much better than XP, IMO. And this whole *****ing over DRM is not to blaim Microsoft, but the recording industry. They are they driving force behind this feature, and I am tired of people putting the blaim on M$. M$ is just accomodatnig them. It all started with the closure of Napster.
Hilabana Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:37:00 - [31] Well lets put it this way this is what i have now! Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM SATA II RAID and support for 11 drives Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Supports 16 gig or RAM By the time i upgrade my RAM i will have over 1000 gig hard drive space and close to 16 gig of ram so when windows vista x64 is out and the new eve is out i will have a great PC .. Plus there are no drivers out yet half the hardware i have on this system.
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 10:48:28 Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. "Locking down ports"? "Disabling user accounts"? By definition, under an operating system like Linux with proper permissions, User accounts are safe, as they can only edit their own home directories. Vista is attempting to do this but will likely fail, as XP failed also. Linux is far less "complicated" than Windows, because it has an architecture that makes sense. Windows, on the other hand, has the infamous DLL Hell and the registry, which turn an already complicated operating system into something completely and totally unmanageable. On the topic, I hope that CCP releases a non-Vista 64-bit version of EVE. A 64-bit version is literally a recompile that takes 30-60 minutes. Nothing more. And I don't think anyone is going to be wasting a gigabyte of RAM and 10 gigabytes of hard disk space to buy an operating system that restricts what they can do with their system and is the slowest operating system in world history. If I buy a Vista machine, I will wipe it as soon as I get it. Heh, you have absolutely no idea what you're taking about. DLL hell has not really been an issue for awhile, I code in .net so it doesn't really concern me. If linux was so good and so simple to use it would have a wider install base, simple as that. Slowest operating system in history? Where the hell do you get your facts? We have been benching it here at work for the last 6 months and it IS FASTER than XP. Boohoo, you have to get some more memory, and complaining about 10gb of hdd space considering most standard systems come with 120-220gb of hdd space these days. Only think you can complain about is Digital Rights Management, which the hardware has to support for it to work in the first place. You will also find this coming to Linux in the future. -=====-
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:21:00 - [33] Originally by: GouldFish The thing is that most of intels so called 64bit processors are not, they hvae the 64bit commands but still do all the work in 32bit. Strange... I thought this was the sole reason why everyone uses AMD64 as opposed to IA64 architectures... As for the whole Linux/Windows debate, I have to say only a few things. First of all, Linux is too complex for any sort of average user to use properly and securely. Support for Linux is also incredibly poor, relying upon users asking questions in a public forum that someone may or may not actually answer. Professional support is extremely limited. Second, Windows is a 32 bit extension to a 16 bit graphical shell for an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:47:00 - [34] SLI support would be great
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:53:00 - [35] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 20:49:56 Originally by: MysticNZ DLL hell has not really been an issue for awhile, I code in .net so it doesn't really concern me. DLL Hell affects users, not developers, generally. It doesn't matter that you code in .Net when hardly anyone else does. Originally by: MysticNZ If linux was so good and so simple to use it would have a wider install base, simple as that. It doesn't have a 300-billion-dollar company behind it breaking countless laws in an attempt to force it upon the world. Originally by: MysticNZ Slowest operating system in history? Where the hell do you get your facts? We have been benching it here at work for the last 6 months and it IS FASTER than XP. Faster when it has to poll every single device every 30 milliseconds just to keep DRM in line? I don't think so. Last I heard this hurt performance by up to 10%. Originally by: MysticNZ Boohoo, you have to get some more memory, and complaining about 10gb of hdd space considering most standard systems come with 120-220gb of hdd space these days. I have to dedicate 1GB to an operating system... why? What do I get in return? Every single remotely useful feature Vista was going to have (such as WinFS) has been tossed to the wayside during the development process. Initially I was quite interested, but they seemed to have tossed everything useful yet kept the bloat. You'd think they'd go hand in hand, but apparently not... -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:33:00 - [36] what do you use all that drive space for??? don't say rendering fractals or something because i won't believe you :p Originally by: Hilabana Well lets put it this way this is what i have now! Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM SATA II RAID and support for 11 drives Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Supports 16 gig or RAM By the time i upgrade my RAM i will have over 1000 gig hard drive space and close to 16 gig of ram so when windows vista x64 is out and the new eve is out i will have a great PC .. Plus there are no drivers out yet half the hardware i have on this system.
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 20:49:56 Originally by: MysticNZ DLL hell has not really been an issue for awhile, I code in .net so it doesn't really concern me. DLL Hell affects users, not developers, generally. It doesn't matter that you code in .Net when hardly anyone else does. Originally by: MysticNZ If linux was so good and so simple to use it would have a wider install base, simple as that. It doesn't have a 300-billion-dollar company behind it breaking countless laws in an attempt to force it upon the world. Originally by: MysticNZ Slowest operating system in history? Where the hell do you get your facts? We have been benching it here at work for the last 6 months and it IS FASTER than XP. Faster when it has to poll every single device every 30 milliseconds just to keep DRM in line? I don't think so. Last I heard this hurt performance by up to 10%. Originally by: MysticNZ Boohoo, you have to get some more memory, and complaining about 10gb of hdd space considering most standard systems come with 120-220gb of hdd space these days. I have to dedicate 1GB to an operating system... why? What do I get in return? Every single remotely useful feature Vista was going to have (such as WinFS) has been tossed to the wayside during the development process. Initially I was quite interested, but they seemed to have tossed everything useful yet kept the bloat. You'd think they'd go hand in hand, but apparently not... Heh, you make me laugh. DLL hell is really a mute point in XP/Vista. Don't even know why you are using this as an argument. Lots of people code in .net. Like I said, with the DRM, the hardware has to support it or this polling doesn't even happen. You don't need 1gb dedicated to the os, it uses around 480-520 in our tests with full aero on. I like how in most threads you heard this and that has happened. Yeah well, I heard pigs can fly too. WinFS is going to be released at a later date, probably as Vista R2 like Win2k3. What do you mean bloat? Install a full linux distro and then complain to be about bloat. -=====-
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:06:00 - [38] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 17/01/2007 22:05:17 Originally by: George Petsch Well, master of blue robots, you are mistaken here. Obviously you've never seen Vista perform in real world, you've never seen the principle of "least user rights" aka user account control, plus you've never run any benchmarks on any vista machine. Obviously your only source of information are some -3 modded down trolls on slashdot, because that is what your post sounds like. I'm proactivley evaluating Windows Vista since mid december, I won't go into details here, but I can safely say: you're wrong. Please, do not spread such FUD rumors about an OS you know nothing about. Should you decide to open you mind a bit and actually learn something, I'm availible for any questions about my personal experience with Windows Vista & EVE ingame. I triple boot Windows XP, Vista RTM and Ubuntu Edgy Eft on my computer, specs follow: Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4ghz Conroe) Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 2048MB DDR800 CL5 RAM (2x 1028MB DIMMs, dual channel) PNY Geforce 7950GT Using the nVidia RTM drivers in Vista: 1. 3dmark06 produces major artifacts 2. facial textures in Oblivion do not render 3. there is an approximate 10% performance hit in EVE compared with Windows XP. There are no issues with graphics in Windows XP, and all of the issues I had with graphics in Vista show up in a google search on the subject. I would also like to note that I run Beryl with the nVidia render platform under Edgy Eft and it is much more responsive than the Vista window manager. This is likely due to poor nVidia drivers in Vista. Limited user accounts in Vista are a joke - its more of an annoyance than anything; gksudo does a much better job of prompting for permissions and then not bothering you again for a within that app. For example, I tried to copy my eve directories into program files on my vista install and was prompted to give explorer.exe permissions and then give permissions for the copy operations 5 times. I suspect this is a bug, but I could have done the same thing on the command line in a nix based system using a single pipeline. Vista does have a lot of nifty little features, but I suggest people wait at least a year, theres a lot of little problems that MS (and manufacturers) will likely fix before then. More on topic... Originally by:* Dark Shikari On the topic, I hope that CCP releases a non-Vista 64-bit version of EVE. A 64-bit version is literally a recompile that takes 30-60 minutes. Nothing more. It might be as simple as a recompile. It might not. You'd be surprised what a little bit of magical inline assembly does to execution speed (and stuff compiled under MS's compiler need all the help it can get - g++ and icc make msc look horrible). EDIT: One last thing to Dark Shikari - theres plenty of things wrong with Vista. Using up 1gig of memory on boot is not one of them. Complaing about vista using 500megs of ram, not 1000. (Edgy uses around 200MB on boot, and thats with beryl) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
MysticNZ Solstice Systems Development Concourse The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:25:00 - [39] Well i've heard bad things about Nvidia drivers. Our tests were done using a ATI x700 256mb. -=====-
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:32:00 - [40] Well I'll admit I skipped most of this discussion but I thought I'd point something out. I seriously doubt the "classic" client will derive any benefit from 64bits. Without going into a lot of game design specifics a space game like EvE just doesn't have the resource requirements to need more than 2gb of memory usually. The new vista client might push that wall but probably not the "classic" client. So in other words if you have to run the dx9 version in 32 bit it really won't matter.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:52:00 - [41] Originally by: Sorela So in other words if you have to run the dx9 version in 32 bit it really won't matter. One thing I'd like to point out in all this: The current eve client is barely using DX8 features, let alone DX9. Sure, it requires that you get the latest version of DX, but it certainly isn't using it! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:57:00 - [42] Originally by: Hllaxiu One thing I'd like to point out in all this: The current eve client is barely using DX8 features, let alone DX9. Sure, it requires that you get the latest version of DX, but it certainly isn't using it! I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to point out by quoting me and saying this but I thought I should clarify that when I said "dx9 version" I mean the new client that's coming out in the future which is restricted to dx9 only.
Nehroon Pagani	Posted - 2007.01.18 02:50:00 - [43] if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. Yay! Linux snobbery FTW!
Feerax FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 03:31:00 - [44] Originally by: MrTriggerHappy Originally by: Hilabana Originally by: Arimus Darkhart Real shame that as they're starting from scratch with the engine they couldn't move over to OpenGL which would make a native linux client alot easier :) (There are two reasons only why XP remains on my laptop - Eve and Adobe photoshop/lightroom - if Eve goes to linux then I'll get another cheep desktop for photoediting) I lost a laptop do to that crapy Linux and there so called support .. It seems that hackers can get in to Linux with out even trying. I like safer and the more tested software. So i will pay for better software. and with this type of system i will not trust Linux. Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition System Manufacturer NVIDIA OEM Processor AMD64 X2 Family 15 Model 75 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~2210 Mhz Name x2 NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OC SLI Name Realtek High Definition Audio 8.1 Memory 3.87 GB Ehhhh you do know Linux is more secure than windows right? I have never had a single issue out of windows or any of the exploits as I do not put all my eggs into one piece of software... Linux just comes with the extra software by default, not to mention 90% of the builds are a pure pain in the ass to find compatible software for that I use daily. Usability > Security
Templer Relleg Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.18 09:52:00 - [45] Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/01/2007 09:49:35 Dudes, this is not a "Vista sucks", or "Linux is better then windows", because that is pure ignorence. Its a matter of perspective. Keep it from a flamewar, thank you. I just want to know how its going to work, if we do get the native 64bit eve client(Which is comming, from what i have heard) with Dx9, or if we need dx10 to get 64bit client.
George Petsch Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 12:33:00 - [46] Originally by: Templer Relleg Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/01/2007 09:49:35 Dudes, this is not a "Vista sucks", or "Linux is better then windows", because that is pure ignorence. Its a matter of perspective. Keep it from a flamewar, thank you. I just want to know how its going to work, if we do get the native 64bit eve client(Which is comming, from what i have heard) with Dx9, or if we need dx10 to get 64bit client. k, back on topic then let's have a look on what is possible: WindowsXP 32-Bit running DX9 WindowsXP 64-Bit running DX9 WindowsVista 32-Bit running DX10 WindowsVista 64-Bit running DX10 now, DX10 is a Vista exclusive, so I think the answer is obvious: The DX10 Eve will be a Vista exclusive, and if a 64-Bit Version will be produced it will be Vista(DX10) exclusive too. I can't imagine that they code a Vista/DX10 client AND a XP/DX9 client in both 32 and 64 bit, so I think that CCP will go for the more advanced technology, which in this case is Windows Vista/DX10, be it 32 or 64 Bit. So, Editions that sound feasible to me: EVE for XP/dx9, 32-Bit (the one we already have) EVE for Vista/dx10, 32-Bit (the logical successor) EVE for Vista/dx10, 64-Bit (same code branch, recompiled for ppl who like it) im in ur safespots pwning ur canz
Svanh Mickahl Infinite Dreams Inc	Posted - 2007.01.18 13:31:00 - [47] Well for a moment ignoring the Vista bashing:-) The idea of a true 64 bit client is nice, I thought SLI was a driver issue not a game issue, if not then switch to crossfire :-) Lastly I would LOVE to see true multithreaded support for dual and quad core procesors. For limitless possibilities, you need Infinite Dreams ====================================== Svanh Mickahl CEO, Infinite Dreams

Redundancy	Posted - 2007.01.18 13:50:00 - [48] You're missing Vista x32/x64 DX9. With a bit of fiddling, you can run the current client in Vista, and we'll be working on better support for the future. We've tried compiling 64 bit versions of the client, and there's a few issues with it at the moment. I suspect that there's a certain inevitability about offering a 64 bit client eventually.

Gothikia Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.18 14:08:00 - [49] Quote: DLL Hell affects users, not developers, generally. It doesn't matter that you code in .Net when hardly anyone else does. DS stfu.. There are more dotnet developers in the world right now than for any other platform. So please check ALL of your facts before posting complete and utter bullcrap.
Hellcore Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.18 14:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Gothikia Quote: DLL Hell affects users, not developers, generally. It doesn't matter that you code in .Net when hardly anyone else does. DS stfu.. There are more dotnet developers in the world right now than for any other platform. So please check ALL of your facts before posting complete and utter bullcrap. I would wage there are far more C/C++/COBOL code monkeys than any other language by far
George Petsch Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 20:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Redundancy You're missing Vista x32/x64 DX9. With a bit of fiddling, you can run the current client in Vista, and we'll be working on better support for the future. We've tried compiling 64 bit versions of the client, and there's a few issues with it at the moment. I suspect that there's a certain inevitability about offering a 64 bit client eventually. Yeah, only mentioned the "native" dx version for each OS, for sure, Vista/dx10 fully supports/fallback to dx9 routines. I for one run EVE with 2 clients simultaneously on Windows Vista/dx10, retail version. Works like a charm. im in ur safespots pwning ur canz
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.18 20:59:00 - [52] Originally by: Dark Shikari Linux is far less "complicated" than Windows, because it has an architecture that makes sense. Windows, on the other hand, has the infamous DLL Hell and the registry, which turn an already complicated operating system into something completely and totally unmanageable. The registry is a damned good idea with a poor implementation, so I'll cede that. DLL hell? Have you used Windows in the past decade? I'll take "DLL hell" over the idiocy of RPM, .deb and the rest any day of the week. The only distro approaching usability in terms of non-conflict is Gentoo, and it's rather a pain in the arse unless you can suffer lengthy compile times. Originally by: Dark Shikari On the topic, I hope that CCP releases a non-Vista 64-bit version of EVE. A 64-bit version is literally a recompile that takes 30-60 minutes. I could nitpick about the time given and the fact that adjustments to the code may very well have to be made. However, converting from 32 bit to 64 bit isn't a massive undertaking by any means. I'd kill for a 64 bit client for EVE that isn't dependant on Vista. Originally by: Dark Shikari And I don't think anyone is going to be wasting a gigabyte of RAM and 10 gigabytes of hard disk space to buy an operating system that restricts what they can do with their system and is the slowest operating system in world history. Depends on how much RAM drops. I've been looking for a reason to shove 16 GB into me Opteron. Seriously, though, no one gives a damn about performance in the desktop world. The death of Windows has been often foretold, and has yet to happen. No one was going to switch to 98, or ME, or XP. People will switch for several reasons. First, XP x64 will go the way of end of life, while 64-bit processors will continue to advance. Second, DX10 - heaven forbid the mere mortal is left without shinier graphics. Finally, it'll come on new computers. Few people, when considering the market as a whole, are going to wipe Vista just to install XP or anything else for that matter. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
solarwinds ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:16:00 - [53] I currently run Vista and EVE on Vista with no modifications. I use whatever drivers it installed by default. I have been a part of a Vista/Office 2007 technology adopter program since October. It is running on a Dell D620 laptop with Core Duo 1.83Ghz, 1GB RAM, 60GB hard disk, and crappy Intel 945GM integrated graphics. With my antivirus/antispyware/firewall, WSUS client, Outlook 2007, IE 7, several terminal server windows, Office Communicator, and custom service delivery applications running Vista uses 490MB RAM. It is very responsive and reliable. It had never hung or crashed since installation and often goes two or three weeks without rebooting with no discernable performance degredation. Network performance has increased considerably over Windows XP, Solaris, and Red Had Linux in back-to-back testing. More importantly, EVE runs flawlessly on it. "Boss mode" is great, minimize the client while doing noob-corp hauling/trading and mouse over the app on the taskbar and the Aero preview shows exactly what is going on - just too cool. I have even run 2 clients at the same time with good performance - one client was involved in a fleet battle and the other was perfectly responsive. To date, I am very pleased with the Vista experience and plan to purchase a new PC with Vista preinstalled that at least exceeds the performance of my work laptop, which shouldn't be too difficult. All you need is enough graphics horsepower to run Aero, everything else out there already (CPU/memory architecture/hard disk) performs very well in the Vista Experience rating (my integrated video only scores 2.2 out of 5). Originally by: Lygos Plus y'know we're the f#cking Inst'l Stahbase Syndicate.
Madphly	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:53:00 - [54] a good link for reference for what windows vista is incorporating as far as digital rights management. http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-073.htm The drm modulation is going to ugly at best - i hope for some stripped down version on irc else i'm not "upgrading" to vista. The fact is, you actually lose some functionality as far as media goes. I'd bet an intelligent artistic crowd like the eve playerbase will have plenty of gripes about the changes.
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 00:58:00 - [55] Originally by: Madphly a good link for reference for what windows vista is incorporating as far as digital rights management. http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-073.htm The drm modulation is going to ugly at best - i hope for some stripped down version on irc else i'm not "upgrading" to vista. The fact is, you actually lose some functionality as far as media goes. I'd bet an intelligent artistic crowd like the eve playerbase will have plenty of gripes about the changes. Interesting read/listen... The next one is pretty nice too, and more about vista: http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-074.htm --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
Iratus Caelestis KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 01:11:00 - [56] In fairness to Microsoft (and I hate them right now) UAC is a good principle, however the fact that it doesn't work is mostly down to application developers assuming admin privelidges, if the app doesn't assume that or try and run privilidged actions then you don't even know its there. If it needs to then it prompts you, exactly the same as SU'ing in Unix. That said Microsoft have given you admin access by default for the last 11 years so just about every app assumes you will have it :) 64 Bit client would be ftw, so would multi threading, so would SLI. But 64 Bit clients are down on my priority list, get the newly rewritten client out and then start thinking about 64bit imho as it's not going to make that much difference in its current state beyond installing to c:\program files instead of the x86 directory.
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.19 02:28:00 - [57] Vista Ultimate is only about ú135 OEM. Which for a piece of software you use everytime you turn on your computer and is just as important as any hardware part, and will more then likely outlast your hardware, it really isn't that bad. If you have it and use it for 5 years, that works out at only ú27 a year.
Imperil Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 02:52:00 - [58] Vista is a Mac OS X ripoff! Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW!
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 03:03:00 - [59] someone really thinks vista will be more secure than linux? your in for a shock if you think vista is going to be anywhere near "relatively safe" until probably service pack 2 which is why you will find alot of people wont buy it until there has been atleast 1 service pack , they have previous experience of buying an ms os near the release date
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.19 05:23:00 - [60] Originally by: Anatolius I'll take "DLL hell" over the idiocy of RPM, .deb and the rest any day of the week. The only distro approaching usability in terms of non-conflict is Gentoo, and it's rather a pain in the arse unless you can suffer lengthy compile times. Have you used Linux (or BSD or OSX) in the past decade? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.19 07:30:00 - [61] Edited by: FingerThief on 19/01/2007 07:31:38 Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui someone really thinks vista will be more secure than linux? your in for a shock if you think vista is going to be anywhere near "relatively safe" until probably service pack 2 which is why you will find alot of people wont buy it until there has been atleast 1 service pack , they have previous experience of buying an ms os near the release date Let's define "safe" or "secure" here ... Working in an enterprise environment that basically comes down to ... - Educating employee's to not wildly click "Yeah" anytime something pops up on the screen - Locking down user rights and not giving them admin access. - Have a firewall somewhere in between the user and the internet - Run good AV software. - Windows Update or WSUS client ( for local WSUS servers ) I am sick and tired of people treating an OS being insecure. It's not the OS that is insecure these days it's the users just trusting everything and installing toolbars here and there. A very high percentage of incidents are not due to OS being "open" but due to users being logged in as admin and then installing software of dubious origin which in turn leads to Bots, Worms etc being installed. In Vista the UAC is nice ... it does not presume you are admin nor does it give you the rights of one ... but if you right-click the shortcut you can "Run as Administrator" and avoid it. Reading some other stuff like "DLL Hell" makes me purely laugh. It's a thing of the past since the introduction of .Net 1.0, GAC, ILMerge and all that. And saying that nobody codes in .Net is even more laughworthy ... just look at the third part tools like EVEMon etc ... those ARE written in .Net. And I have to agree with a previous poster ... reading about something on the net and repeating it like a nice parrot without actually knowing what you talk about sure does make you look like an Ares. And to the whole MS vs Linux stuff I just want to add the following ... if you have the same percentage of MS OS Users poke sticks at Linux to find bugs/holes/flaws etc as you have Linux users poke MS OS's ... I do not think you would have time to actually use Linux because you would be occupied compiling the kernel every single day a few times.
George Petsch Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 08:01:00 - [62] Originally by: Madphly a good link for reference for what windows vista is incorporating as far as digital rights management. http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-073.htm The drm modulation is going to ugly at best - i hope for some stripped down version on irc else i'm not "upgrading" to vista. The fact is, you actually lose some functionality as far as media goes. I'd bet an intelligent artistic crowd like the eve playerbase will have plenty of gripes about the changes. See, that is just plain wrong. I'm using Vista, I still can rip my CDs and create mp3s. I can rip my DVD's, stream them and watch them with vlc or media player. You're not losing any functionality with windows Vista, you're gaining some! Yeah, really, DRM gives you advantages. Like Blue-Ray DVD. By design blue-ray movies players need to be certified by the industry, and they need to comply to copy protection standards. As far as I know, Vista is the ONLY OS which will provide a LEGAL way to play blue-ray movies, BECAUSE of it's DRM architecture, thus complying with the industry. im in ur safespots pwning ur canz
Roche Pso Gallente Deltole Research Labs	Posted - 2007.01.19 08:04:00 - [63] Originally by: FingerThief For most Home users ( that do need elevated file encryption, Remote Desktop and other bells ) Windows Vista Premium Home is enough ... and the upgrade will cost you only around 160 $US ( whatever that translates to in your local currency At current exchange rates $160 is a little more than ú80, however Microsoft's price for Vista Premium Home in the UK is more like ú130. Apparently they aren't using such a ****ty exchange rate to increase their profit, it is for our protection in some way they dont define properly
FingerThief Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.19 08:19:00 - [64] Edited by: FingerThief on 19/01/2007 08:16:12 Originally by: Roche Pso Originally by: FingerThief For most Home users ( that do need elevated file encryption, Remote Desktop and other bells ) Windows Vista Premium Home is enough ... and the upgrade will cost you only around 160 $US ( whatever that translates to in your local currency At current exchange rates $160 is a little more than ú80, however Microsoft's price for Vista Premium Home in the UK is more like ú130. Apparently they aren't using such a ****ty exchange rate to increase their profit, it is for our protection in some way they dont define properly Upgrade ( from eligible MS OS's ) or Full ? And if Upgrade ... Wowzers
Rejectea	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:38:00 - [65] I shall get vista the way I have had every OS since Windows 98, and it wasn't from the shops :P
BustyBounty Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:17:00 - [66] Quote: I am sick and tired of people treating an OS being insecure. It's not the OS that is insecure these days it's the users just trusting everything and installing toolbars here and there. you can hardly blame buffer overflow exploits and such on the user. there was a jpeg exploit not so long ago right? you can hardly blame the user for IE having a flaw. you cant expect everyone to use there computer without beeing on an account with admin rights either ------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to.
Bluestealth Minmatar Star Scream Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:16:00 - [67] Originally by: BustyBounty Quote: I am sick and tired of people treating an OS being insecure. It's not the OS that is insecure these days it's the users just trusting everything and installing toolbars here and there. you can hardly blame buffer overflow exploits and such on the user. there was a jpeg exploit not so long ago right? you can hardly blame the user for IE having a flaw. you cant expect everyone to use there computer without being on an account with admin rights either I absolutely hate windows, but I have to agree that if you run as a limited rights user, revoke a few of the stupid privileges they give you (for ex. the ability to write files almost anywhere on the drive), and don't use IE, you will probably never get a virus. There are so many annoying quirks with windows that make me hate it, but viruses and security are only a minor annoyance with XP/Vista if setup correctly. I do believe that Microsoft is completely to blame for giving out Administrator rights, they should have stopped that with NT4, instead they are fixing it with Vista. I am also still not convinced how well they have implemented a locked down user and will have to wait for a copy of Vista to check just how "low rights" it really is. To the poster who said an OS should get out of your way and not be complex, well Linux IS. If you choose one of the distributions targeted at average users you can easily install it and get going quickly. I doubt there are many people who couldn't sit down and start using it to do everyday computing, except for some initial shell shock from seeing something different. I would say it is about as complex as going from Windows to Mac, except its harder to buy preinstalled. However, if you want to do more with the OS and customize it into exactly what you want it to be, go ahead all the code and tools are there for you, otherwise its just an OS, and UI and basic system tools are all you will need. The reason that my desktop is Windows XP and not Linux at this time is lack of hardware support by Creative. There are times that I have felt like kicking my XP box because it frustrated me that much, but its still on there, it survived the kill switch last time when I realized it would be difficult to get my X-Fi with 7.1 audio working. Also I am completely reliant on BeyondTV for watching TV, and my crappy ATI TV Tuner Elite(I know it has the best picture quality, but it seems like a huge paperweight) has no linux drivers (Woe be me, should have got the hauppauge).
Feerax FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 00:32:00 - [68] Originally by: Rejectea I shall get vista the way I have had every OS since Windows 98, and it wasn't from the shops :P Proud of being a thief? Kudos.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 02:14:00 - [69] ANY OS is only as good as it's user is proficient with it. An idiot will be an idiot regardless of whether he uses Vista or Linux. Windows is better in my world, because the applications I use in my daily life doesn't exist for Linux. And that is what matters to me. [OMG! SMASH!]
sr blackout Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.23 04:21:00 - [70] i think its about time though for 64bit and sli support... it would make eve on par with other games... but thats just me cause this pc i have is just waiting for something more to do hehe... and im wondering if 64bit xp pro is a better idea then vista? since i do have a amd 64bit chip, and sli ready though 7900 is more then enough for now, and pretty soon it will be no point for my 7900, getting another one when i would need a dx10 card sooner or later
Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.23 04:31:00 - [71] Originally by: Rejectea I shall get vista the way I have had every OS since Windows 98, and it wasn't from the shops :P /cheer
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.23 05:42:00 - [72] I have just one thing to say. http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/ Tomshardware is a fairly respectable source. They've been running benchmarks, since I've been online, and that's a damn long time. There are multiple benchmarks showing performance degradation. Also, until i upgrade to at least 2 GB of ram, I will not get Vista. I simply don't see the point in doing so right now. I never have any issues with my WinXP, I can run everything i need to, and it's not half as bloated as Vista is atm. 490mb ram for the op system, give me a goddamn break. Jamming & Logoffski
Claude Leon Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.01.23 05:50:00 - [73] Originally by: Ryysa I have just one thing to say. http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/ Tomshardware is a fairly respectable source. They've been running benchmarks, since I've been online, and that's a damn long time. There are multiple benchmarks showing performance degradation. Also, until i upgrade to at least 2 GB of ram, I will not get Vista. I simply don't see the point in doing so right now. I never have any issues with my WinXP, I can run everything i need to, and it's not half as bloated as Vista is atm. 490mb ram for the op system, give me a goddamn break. Umm your late. 2GB's was so last year. Hell, my cat has a computer with 2GB's of ram. It is all about 4gigs baby. You either adapt or die. 1GB of memory, hah!
Templer Relleg Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.23 12:45:00 - [74] Edited by: Templer Relleg on 23/01/2007 12:51:10 Originally by: Ryysa I have just one thing to say. http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/17/gameplay-only-gets-worse-with-vista/ Tomshardware is a fairly respectable source. They've been running benchmarks, since I've been online, and that's a damn long time. There are multiple benchmarks showing performance degradation. Also, until i upgrade to at least 2 GB of ram, I will not get Vista. I simply don't see the point in doing so right now. I never have any issues with my WinXP, I can run everything i need to, and it's not half as bloated as Vista is atm. 490mb ram for the op system, give me a goddamn break. Yadadada, you make me laugh You do know why it takes 490mb ram from cold boot? Because it preloades stuff that you often use, in order to give you a fast load time on the things you use on a regular basis, which it figures out with several very complex algorithms. The article by tomshardware is useless. They use non-rtm drivers from nvidia, that are in beta stage. So what do you expect? Yes, you could in theory see a small decrease in performence in games with Vista, if you look at how DirectX 9 works, as its emulated. But if you look at the new graphics driver model, the performence will be better. Now please try and read into the stuff, before posting benchmarks which you just read, and think you know what really is going on! Also when my xp boots it consumes more then 400mb ram. And i hardly have alot running from cold boot.
sr blackout Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.23 22:20:00 - [75] my q is i have a dual core amd 64bit with 7900 and 2gb of ram... should i even bother maybe with an oem of vista ultimate? btw how does it work could you put it on more then one home comp or no :P xp pro is nice, and i have 32bit of xp pro and wondering if i should get 64bit pro yet or just jump to 64bit vista does anyone know such answers? And of course I would love eve to have 64bit or sli support
Satsukage Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.23 22:26:00 - [76] Originally by: Reddof Nonnac Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 18:42:50 Originally by: George Petsch Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 17/01/2007 10:48:28 Originally by: xaix ikkul if you dont understand how to spend twenty minutes locking down ports and disabling gust/anonymous user accounts in linux then you dont have the technical knowledge or exerience to be dabbling in such a complicated operating system. it's not the software it's the user. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. ... ... If I buy a Vista machine, I will wipe it as soon as I get it. Well, master of blue robots, you are mistaken here. Obviously you've never seen Vista perform in real world, you've never seen the principle of "least user rights" aka user account control, plus you've never run any benchmarks on any vista machine. Obviously your only source of information are some -3 modded down trolls on slashdot, because that is what your post sounds like. I'm proactivley evaluating Windows Vista since mid december, I won't go into details here, but I can safely say: you're wrong. Please, do not spread such FUD rumors about an OS you know nothing about. Should you decide to open you mind a bit and actually learn something, I'm availible for any questions about my personal experience with Windows Vista & EVE ingame. Vista won't even run on my computer because it will use my entire RAM, nearly a gigabyte, on bootup. There are plenty of websites that describe exactly why Vista sucks. Its slow, has vast DRM restrictions, and has worse compatibility than a 1999 version of Red Hat. I am never ever going to use an operating system that requires 100 dollars of memory just to load the OS and kernel. Ever. (Yes, this means I might consider Vista if 1 gigabyte of memory costs 10 dollars) And if you think Microsoft is so trustworthy, here's a message from Microsoft themselves saying how slow Vista is. Are you running RTM with "stable" drivers? Vista is much better than XP, IMO. And this whole *****ing over DRM is not to blaim Microsoft, but the recording industry. They are they driving force behind this feature, and I am tired of people putting the blaim on M$. M$ is just accomodatnig them. It all started with the closure of Napster. No, MS compiles it, MS sells it, MS makes the cash. MS is getting into the digital media arena. MS is totally, absolutly without any question whatsoever 100% to blame for the DRM nightmare that is Vista. Period. Anything else is self-delusional fanboism.
sr blackout Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.25 03:12:00 - [77] does anyone know the answer to my questions?
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.25 03:47:00 - [78] Originally by: Rejectea I shall get vista the way I have had every OS since Windows 98, and it wasn't from the shops :P /signed --------- join on New Movement of Market Traders

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