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I want more ISK farmers and EVEbayers

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Iesiama Nobalte Chinese ISK Farmers	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:23:00 - [31] I totally agree with the original poster. EVE definitely needs more farmers. Make them absolutely commonplace, so no one pays any attention to them. Errr, I mean... Postel vely gleat on opinion. Is make feed thousand starving dragon child. Prease are to be farm more! Ancient spilit is thanking. Chinese ISK Farmers starblog
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Claudia Bluebell snip Whether the farmers are using a script or wage slave labour, they are breaking the rules the moment they try to trade in-game materials for out-of-game currency. We don't want them in this game. I would rather CCP come up with a storyline about all high sec belts being mined to exhaustion (never to respawn), than have criminals profit from this game. I doubt it would even harm T1 manufacturing a great deal, as low sec would finally at long last have a point.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Cmdr Sy Originally by: Claudia Bluebell snip Whether the farmers are using a script or wage slave labour, they are breaking the rules the moment they try to trade in-game materials for out-of-game currency. We don't want them in this game. I would rather CCP come up with a storyline about all high sec belts being mined to exhaustion (never to respawn), than have criminals profit from this game. I doubt it would even harm T1 manufacturing a great deal, as low sec would finally at long last have a point. Make all belts exploration sites, once the belt is mined out, it's gone... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Zinzal	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:34:00 - [34] Macro Miners are cheating. People that buy ISK are cheating. I don't give a damn if its good or bad for the EVE economy. If I bother to work in the game to achieve something I don't want to come across someone who's done the same thing in 5 minutes using his credit card. Id never buy my way into any game and people that do are really sad.
Arianhod	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:46:00 - [35] Originally by: Zinzal Macro Miners are cheating. People that buy ISK are cheating. I don't give a damn if its good or bad for the EVE economy. If I bother to work in the game to achieve something I don't want to come across someone who's done the same thing in 5 minutes using his credit card. Id never buy my way into any game and people that do are really sad. Cheating is debateable is people use this as a job to buy the bread and keep the family sheltered to be honest. People are in fact allowed to buy ISK as endoresed by CCP through GTC retail. Eve econemy (I use buy orders alot) is dependant on macrominers or whoever the peeps are that mine the low ends and keep it down. I use huge amounts of buy orders and I would be plesantly surprised if even a half was mined by genuine mining corporations. You want to get rid of cheap modules, ban the macro-miners/farmers by all means. Besides, we do this all the time, my shoes were made in Vietnam and my shirt in China, my computer, assembled in China also. The peeps there get a better deal out of farming Isk than by working for a few of the multi-nationals by the sounds of it and we exploit it, knowingly or not. Im not endorsing MM, just stating that we are dependant on them more than peeps would care to recognise sometimes.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.05 20:01:00 - [36] Edited by: DarkMatter on 05/01/2007 20:01:56 Quote: Cheating is debateable is people use this as a job to buy the bread and keep the family sheltered to be honest I don't really give a **** if ppl would starve if CCP were somehow able to stop farming. That's not CCP's problem, and it certainly is not our f'ing problem, we should not have to deal with that in a freaking game... Let them go play a damn MMO like Second Life and make their living there, not here. Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Mayoz Miner	Posted - 2007.01.05 20:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Claudia Bluebell I would like to present you with a different perspective to those darn ISK farmes since they have been given bad publicity lately. It all comes down to this: They are cheap labor!!!! Nobody else wants to do the tedious work of grinding astroid belts but they do! They don't want social insurance but do provide us with cheap minerals. Really, if they would all go to another server or MMO then our mineral prices would go up because our "work time" is much more expensive than theirs. For this to work we need rich EVEbayers actually buying stuff from the ISK farmers. It's a offer and demand system. These rich-first-world-noob-EVE-players then use this isk to buy some idiot ship and fly it to low-sec. Result: Free target practice with Phat Lewt! So each day I am really thankful that some people are able to pay the over-inflated prices I ask for the ships I have on market. And BTW, if you are now going to tell me that this creates inflation then you are not shooting down enough ships. Yea you cant be a miner by profession otherwise you wouldn't be making selfish staements like this, it might be good for you but its not good for everyone. By your way of thinking why dont CCP just give us all free ships then you wont ever have to mine/mission/w/e for them. Oh and just beacause someone buys a GTC and sells it for cash doesn't mean they are stupid and waste it by getting killed str8 of in low sec .
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.01.05 20:45:00 - [38] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 05/01/2007 20:01:56 Quote: Cheating is debateable is people use this as a job to buy the bread and keep the family sheltered to be honest I don't really give a **** if ppl would starve if CCP were somehow able to stop farming. That's not CCP's problem, and it certainly is not our f'ing problem, we should not have to deal with that in a freaking game... Let them go play a damn MMO like Second Life and make their living there, not here. That as may be about starving, but moraly does that make it right to cut off a source of income to a poor country? I am being a bit off here, but is it wrong to steal bread to feed your family who are starving, and does it go under the "you stole, you face the law" kind of an attitude. When you have a situation with food ect, becomes a bit of a grey area don`t you think? Storm Thesis CEO
Mayoz Miner	Posted - 2007.01.05 20:53:00 - [39] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 05/01/2007 20:01:56 Quote: Cheating is debateable is people use this as a job to buy the bread and keep the family sheltered to be honest I don't really give a **** if ppl would starve if CCP were somehow able to stop farming. That's not CCP's problem, and it certainly is not our f'ing problem, we should not have to deal with that in a freaking game... Let them go play a damn MMO like Second Life and make their living there, not here. That as may be about starving, but moraly does that make it right to cut off a source of income to a poor country? I am being a bit off here, but is it wrong to steal bread to feed your family who are starving, and does it go under the "you stole, you face the law" kind of an attitude. When you have a situation with food ect, becomes a bit of a grey area don`t you think? Did these ppl just die before CCP came into existience ? no they would do some other menial task that noone else wnated to do the only people making money are the people who 'employ' them. There are better ways to help people than unregulated ILLEGAL activities such as ISK farming, but hey if stops them from going into prostitution or w/e then yea it is the lesser of 2 evils, but is this the case ? I dunno all I see is people being exploited just in modern/new ways.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:00:00 - [40] Originally by: Alz Shado Always a fun read when these discussions come up. Anda's Game That was a pretty interesting read. But damn did some of that game's stuff need nerfing!
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:03:00 - [41] People get expoited all the time, this is just one way of the new ways. But a quick look at the populations shows that the poorer countries have an increase of population of around 3% per year. Big deal you may think, but the population doubles just over every 26 years. The countries here that are expoited by the construction indusry of countries that have stable, static populations. The ratio here goes out of balance very quickly, so new and "imaginative" niches must be made and exploited by those that want to have a job ect. Storm Thesis CEO
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:14:00 - [42] Originally by: DarkMatter There are plenty of players/corps that would mine for a living, but it's just not profitable when macroers & farmers are undercutting you left right & center... The game would be better if there were none of them, then miners could get back to having a career, right now that career is broken because of cheaters... Go read the end of the 7 page thread about NPC corp tax which is bellow this thread. The 0.0 players actually want the ORE ships taken away from the NPC players. Meanwhile, the OP of this thread wants the macro miners and Asian isk farmers to be encouraged since they are "cheap labor." This player base is hilarious.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Xavier Raines Originally by: DarkMatter There are plenty of players/corps that would mine for a living, but it's just not profitable when macroers & farmers are undercutting you left right & center... The game would be better if there were none of them, then miners could get back to having a career, right now that career is broken because of cheaters... Go read the end of the 7 page thread about NPC corp tax which is bellow this thread. The 0.0 players actually want the ORE ships taken away from the NPC players. Meanwhile, the OP of this thread wants the macro miners and Asian isk farmers to be encouraged since they are "cheap labor." This player base is hilarious. I'm a 0.0 player and that's just silly... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:17:00 - [44] That is indeed just silly, why on earth would you restrict ships to NPC corps, its just a way to play the game... Storm Thesis CEO
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:18:00 - [45] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Xavier Raines Originally by: DarkMatter There are plenty of players/corps that would mine for a living, but it's just not profitable when macroers & farmers are undercutting you left right & center... The game would be better if there were none of them, then miners could get back to having a career, right now that career is broken because of cheaters... Go read the end of the 7 page thread about NPC corp tax which is bellow this thread. The 0.0 players actually want the ORE ships taken away from the NPC players. Meanwhile, the OP of this thread wants the macro miners and Asian isk farmers to be encouraged since they are "cheap labor." This player base is hilarious. I'm a 0.0 player and that's just silly... Sorry. i didn't mean to group all 0.0 players together with that statement. I know there are still some people here with some common sense.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:20:00 - [46] Originally by: Kirjava Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 05/01/2007 20:01:56 Quote: Cheating is debateable is people use this as a job to buy the bread and keep the family sheltered to be honest I don't really give a **** if ppl would starve if CCP were somehow able to stop farming. That's not CCP's problem, and it certainly is not our f'ing problem, we should not have to deal with that in a freaking game... Let them go play a damn MMO like Second Life and make their living there, not here. That as may be about starving, but moraly does that make it right to cut off a source of income to a poor country? I am being a bit off here, but is it wrong to steal bread to feed your family who are starving, and does it go under the "you stole, you face the law" kind of an attitude. When you have a situation with food ect, becomes a bit of a grey area don`t you think? This isn't about morals; it's about a damn game! It's not CCP's responsibility to worry about starving families in Russia when they code their game... I donate to charities, and hope the money goes to poor ppl. I don't play EVE to donate money to poor ppl... Those ppl need to go get real jobs, and not leech off of a game which prohibits that activity... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:22:00 - [47] From an economical standpoint, for anyone who is not mining, macrominers are good. From an ethical standpoint, they are bad. Also, if you buy isk on ebay from a macro miner, the isk goes to the macro miner, not to CCP. CCP already did something about this though. People are able to legitimately buy ISK for real money by selling timecodes. The money goes CCP not to the macroers, the people who would get their advantage because they are rich, get it anyway, except that CCP benefits from it. Also this system allows a lot of people who otherwise couldn't afford the subscription fee to play the game. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:22:00 - [48] They leach of us, at least the roles are reveresed for a change I suppose... It comes down to the teach a man to fish thing, people want to make money, they work for it by providing a service that we as a playerbase, unknowingly or not, are dependant on. Donate as much money as you want, nobel as it is I feel better about people earning their money as opposed to giving it to their hands. Storm Thesis CEO
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:24:00 - [49] Quote: Also this system allows a lot of people who otherwise couldn't afford the subscription fee to play the game. And that's another thing I have a problem with... Why do some ppl they should be able to play for free? Give ppl an inch and they expect a mile next time Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:24:00 - [50] Also for a mining standpoint, as a dedicated miner/industrialist myself, I see that it is useful to have such a low value of lowends such as trit and pyr as MM are credited with flooding the market with and undercutting it. Storm Thesis CEO
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:26:00 - [51] Edited by: Xavier Raines on 05/01/2007 21:26:57 The bottom line is that it goes against the spirit of the game and this is still just a game. Like someone above just said, CCP is not responsible for poor Asian countries and supporting their economy with their GAME. Whenever people use this as an argument to why isk farmers should exist and be albe to operate in games, I just want to reach through my monitor and strangle them.
Jokim	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:30:00 - [52] Originally by: Jim McGregor Well, no other game has successfully managed to do that either. that is because the owner of said games dont want to, since the farmers means a nice profit they just ban a small group every so often and makes an annoucement about it, so people will think they are doing something about the situation Look at lineage 2 for example, a game where about 80% of the logged in accounts are botting, and a mere 20-25% of the playerbase are "real" players (and 90-95% of these ebays heavily) NCSoft has had the technology to ban bots forever, the bot client virtually all botters use sends faulty packets and are easily identified, so they could get rid of all botters in literally a matter of minutes IF THEY WANTED TO. But why should they ? These people give them profit, and its not like players quit anyways People complain and complain and complain about it, 24/7, BUT THEY ARENT QUITTING THE GAME OVER IT. And the mmo game owner knows this (this is a general rule of MMO's) If you are sitting here and complaining about the botters (or "macro miners" as their specific name is in eve) but you dont stop your subscription (and give a reason why, botters) then of cource they wont do anything about the problem Oh and the only reason ebaying in MMOs is against the eula is because the company owning the game dont like people profiting on THEIR game, its not because it is a rule to protect players
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:30:00 - [53] The spitit of EvE is player versus player, as stated by Ouver himself. It can be said that the farmers who use this as their source of income are players in the game, and compete with players. However, it could be taken that the stakes for them is higher than it is for the rest of us. I can wholeheartedly see why you detest them being in the game, but the spitit of the game is not to help one another of the like such as in World of Warcraft, but to backstab and relentlessly pursue your goals, why else would corp thefts, scams and non consentual PvP define this game? Storm Thesis CEO
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:35:00 - [54] Edited by: Xavier Raines on 05/01/2007 21:36:43 Originally by: Kirjava The spitit of EvE is player versus player, as stated by Ouver himself. It can be said that the farmers who use this as their source of income are players in the game, and compete with players. However, it could be taken that the stakes for them is higher than it is for the rest of us. I can wholeheartedly see why you detest them being in the game, but the spitit of the game is not to help one another of the like such as in World of Warcraft, but to backstab and relentlessly pursue your goals, why else would corp thefts, scams and non consentual PvP define this game? The problem I have with your argument is that these isk farmers are not really part of the game. In fact, they go outside of the game and sell what they made inside of it. I have no problem with people scamming contracts, stealing ore, pirating in unorthadox ways, corp theft ect. because those are all players playing this game, Isk farmers are making real world bucks and to make matters worse, they actually effect the in-game economy. Therefore, they taint and tamper with the game. This is why people dislike them.
Trotski II Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:06:00 - [55] Oh MM are so evil... I can¦t stand knowing they are making over $3 a day while they still get the previlege of playing 16 hours of EVE on 6 old school PC at same time. They should just starve to death and stop interfering in my sandbox. 99% of the time people whine of MM but only 1% of time they complain of buyers. Until MMO players stop buying nothing will change. Just like with prostitution,drugs,etc in real life. Any laws, fiscalization, rules,whatever will just have an impact between having a big offer or an huge offer and the price that must be paid. This greedy SOB should be banned, forward to relevant CCP department please: Greddy and DUMB!!!
Joran Koba	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Claudia Bluebell I would like to present you with a different perspective to those darn ISK farmes since they have been given bad publicity lately. It all comes down to this: They are cheap labor!!!! Nobody else wants to do the tedious work of grinding astroid belts but they do! They don't want social insurance but do provide us with cheap minerals. Really, if they would all go to another server or MMO then our mineral prices would go up because our "work time" is much more expensive than theirs. For this to work we need rich EVEbayers actually buying stuff from the ISK farmers. It's a offer and demand system. These rich-first-world-noob-EVE-players then use this isk to buy some idiot ship and fly it to low-sec. Result: Free target practice with Phat Lewt! So each day I am really thankful that some people are able to pay the over-inflated prices I ask for the ships I have on market. And BTW, if you are now going to tell me that this creates inflation then you are not shooting down enough ships. Or we could just ban them all so it's worth it for real players to mine the low ends that the market isn't being flooded with anymore. There might actualy be more than one way for noobs to make money again OMG.
Kirjava Caldari Storm Thesis The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.01.06 08:00:00 - [57] Originally by: Trotski II Oh MM are so evil... I can¦t stand knowing they are making over $3 a day while they still get the previlege of playing 16 hours of EVE on 6 old school PC at same time. They should just starve to death and stop interfering in my sandbox. 99% of the time people whine of MM but only 1% of time they complain of buyers. Until MMO players stop buying nothing will change. Just like with prostitution,drugs,etc in real life. Any laws, fiscalization, rules,whatever will just have an impact between having a big offer or an huge offer and the price that must be paid. This greedy SOB should be banned, forward to relevant CCP department please: Greddy and DUMB!!! You sir are completely right there, but bloody hell, how stupid can you get, even posting the name of the charecter or the sell page?... Storm Thesis CEO
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2007.01.06 10:19:00 - [58] Edited by: EPSILON DELTA on 06/01/2007 10:15:38 I would love to buy battleships at under 100mil... ah the old days Honestly speaking, who in their right mind would want to mine millions upon millions of veld. True corps usually have mining ops, but comon, they only mine higher end minerals to trade for trit. No one should suffer having to mine millions of veld. you hate macro miners, but you depend on them... what can you do...

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