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Tracable alts

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Ralus eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.05 16:45:00 - [1] Disclaimer: I'm bringing up and old topic I remember reading about but I'm afraid I've forgotten the original author, so apologies. I like pvp, I like carebearing, I like pirates, I like mission runners, I like scammers, I like everyone tbh except for the invisible, un-traceable alt who seems to exist in every major scam and theft these days. Its time that the alt can be traced, and here I believe is a simple and non game breaking way to do it. Not everyone uses an alt to scam with, and it is only fair that a person who uses an alt to do unconnected things to his main should remain anonymous. Its also important that connected alts should be able to be traced over separate accounts, so you have to look at what connects these characters. The answer is there wallet, connected alts will all be transferring isk between themselves. So a new angle of intelligence gathering is acquired, using isk and standings they can bribe the npc's to provide journal lists showing transactions and transfers on select characters : Had a corp thief? Trace where the money went, IPO scam? Again trace the money trails. If theirs lots of alts and lots of movement there might be a nest of transactions, which in my opinions simply makes piecing the threads together more interesting. I believe this provides a simple measure to create the accountability that so many players want without breaking the game and without rubber stamping everyone's forehead with the names of all the characters. Discuss?
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2007.01.05 17:13:00 - [2] ehm, i've been hired by people to trace who owns a character and it's doable, it takes imagination and out of game tools (no, not haxing any gibsons) but it's doable, and I don't really see why your own incompetance should cut into my business.
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.05 17:39:00 - [3] In a virtual world without many restrictions on what can be done to another player the only real accountability is reputation. Disposable alts break that. For a competetive, capitalist, PvP society to survive I think we really need that accountability. I have always, and still support any mechanism which links all characters and alts paid for by a single person to that person. Shamis
Dario Wall Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.05 17:41:00 - [4] Originally by: kublai ehm, i've been hired by people to trace who owns a character and it's doable, it takes imagination and out of game tools (no, not haxing any gibsons) but it's doable, and I don't really see why your own incompetance should cut into my business. I agree with kublai here. Tracing alts can be easy enough if you know what to look for, and where to look. Like was said already, sometimes you need to use out of game tools(forums anyone?) to connect the alts to the mains. One way is to use the search to look for a characters name, then you can quickly browse all their posts to see if they make an "oops, alt post" post in the forums.
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2007.01.05 17:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz In a virtual world without many restrictions on what can be done to another player the only real accountability is reputation. Disposable alts break that. For a competetive, capitalist, PvP society to survive I think we really need that accountability. I have always, and still support any mechanism which links all characters and alts paid for by a single person to that person. Shamis It is impossible to do that though, if I pay one account via a credit card and another via ingame purchased GTC's or ones i've bought trough a third party site, the only way to make it possible would be to violate privacy laws in a douzen countries.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:03:00 - [6] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 05/01/2007 18:03:54 Originally by: kublai Originally by: Shamis Orzoz In a virtual world without many restrictions on what can be done to another player the only real accountability is reputation. Disposable alts break that. For a competetive, capitalist, PvP society to survive I think we really need that accountability. I have always, and still support any mechanism which links all characters and alts paid for by a single person to that person. Shamis It is impossible to do that though, if I pay one account via a credit card and another via ingame purchased GTC's or ones i've bought trough a third party site, the only way to make it possible would be to violate privacy laws in a douzen countries. Err, it's CCP:s game. AFAIK you sign a license agreement when signing up for an account. I wouldn't be surprised if it had some paragraph detailing usage of eg. an IP-address (or maybe a MAC-#?). [OMG! SMASH!]
Dirtball Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:58:00 - [7] Well some people play eve to metagame and would rather win at all costs than to see a war that everyone from both sides considers fun outside of the metagaming. Unfortunatly pilot fish (the little fish that follow sharks and eat scraps) seem to think its ok to tarnish their reputation and welcome being called cheaters just so long as they can win. Its just like steroids in football/baseball because eve basicly is organized sports for computer jocks where you have to show up at certain times and if the teams needs you dont be selfish and be a team player. Players want a championship ring so they join the team with the best chance to win. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 05/01/2007 18:03:54 Originally by: kublai Originally by: Shamis Orzoz In a virtual world without many restrictions on what can be done to another player the only real accountability is reputation. Disposable alts break that. For a competetive, capitalist, PvP society to survive I think we really need that accountability. I have always, and still support any mechanism which links all characters and alts paid for by a single person to that person. Shamis It is impossible to do that though, if I pay one account via a credit card and another via ingame purchased GTC's or ones i've bought trough a third party site, the only way to make it possible would be to violate privacy laws in a douzen countries. Err, it's CCP:s game. AFAIK you sign a license agreement when signing up for an account. I wouldn't be surprised if it had some paragraph detailing usage of eg. an IP-address (or maybe a MAC-#?). I have three accounts, to trace me as the owner of all three accounts means tracing payments, my ip adress and many other things that in Norway would be considered highly illegal, we have strict rules regarding online privacy and to trace me as the owner of this and that would either infrindge on these laws or simply not be efficient enough to do. Personally, I like it how it is, adds a greater challenge to the game, I love all this cloak and dagger stuff.
Trolling alt	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:38:00 - [9] Originally by: kublai ehm, i've been hired by people to trace who owns a character and it's doable, it takes imagination and out of game tools (no, not haxing any gibsons) but it's doable, and I don't really see why your own incompetance should cut into my business. OK IM AN ALT AND I TALK LOUD IF YOU CAN TELL ME MY MAIN I WILL GIVE YOU 300 MILLION ISK.
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Trolling alt Originally by: kublai ehm, i've been hired by people to trace who owns a character and it's doable, it takes imagination and out of game tools (no, not haxing any gibsons) but it's doable, and I don't really see why your own incompetance should cut into my business. OK IM AN ALT AND I TALK LOUD IF YOU CAN TELL ME MY MAIN I WILL GIVE YOU 300 MILLION ISK. I don't work for alts ;) Not alt's that havent been alive for more than 30 minutes, at the very least.
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 20:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 05/01/2007 20:07:05 Originally by: kublai I have three accounts, to trace me as the owner of all three accounts means tracing payments, my ip adress and many other things that in Norway would be considered highly illegal, we have strict rules regarding online privacy and to trace me as the owner of this and that would either infrindge on these laws or simply not be efficient enough to do. Personally, I like it how it is, adds a greater challenge to the game, I love all this cloak and dagger stuff. a) The accounts belong to CCP. b) They need not trace anything, whenever you connect, your IP connects to their IP. You transmit it yourself. c) They can just check which accounts use the same IP at certain times, and BINGO. No tracing involved. And yeah, there is no breach of privacy, if you wanted that, you shouldn't connect to anyone, or anything. [OMG! SMASH!]
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2007.01.05 20:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 05/01/2007 20:07:05 Originally by: kublai I have three accounts, to trace me as the owner of all three accounts means tracing payments, my ip adress and many other things that in Norway would be considered highly illegal, we have strict rules regarding online privacy and to trace me as the owner of this and that would either infrindge on these laws or simply not be efficient enough to do. Personally, I like it how it is, adds a greater challenge to the game, I love all this cloak and dagger stuff. a) The accounts belong to CCP. b) They need not trace anything, whenever you connect, your IP connects to their IP. You transmit it yourself. c) They can just check which accounts use the same IP at certain times, and BINGO. No tracing involved. And yeah, there is no breach of privacy, if you wanted that, you shouldn't connect to anyone, or anything. Proxies etc, it's easy to make mistakes, people on shared networks (colleges playing at work brothers sisters etc), it wont be accurate.
Ralus eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.05 21:59:00 - [13] Edited by: Ralus on 05/01/2007 21:59:35 Just to make a point this system was never about tracing actual subscription payments or IP's, that illegal, its about looking at in game wallets to see where isk has been transferred from player to player, its not an out of game tool its an in game traceability system that hopefully removes the meta-gaming aspect of hunting through corp forums and killboards
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Ralus Edited by: Ralus on 05/01/2007 21:59:35 Just to make a point this system was never about tracing actual subscription payments or IP's, that illegal, its about looking at in game wallets to see where isk has been transferred from player to player, its not an out of game tool its an in game traceability system that hopefully removes the meta-gaming aspect of hunting through corp forums and killboards WTS - Nano internal fiber - 900 million isk You're going to track every bogus sell/buy order too? :) http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0612/Forums_sig_for_kublai.jpg Sig removed, lacks game related content. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -Pirlouit
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:11:00 - [15] Edited by: Sun Win on 05/01/2007 23:11:04 Originally by: Ralus Edited by: Ralus on 05/01/2007 21:59:35 its about looking at in game wallets to see where isk has been transferred from player to player, So everyone I've ever ransomed is my Alt? Awesome. New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here
WhiteBull	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:18:00 - [16] not sure
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Sun Win Edited by: Sun Win on 05/01/2007 23:11:04 Originally by: Ralus Edited by: Ralus on 05/01/2007 21:59:35 its about looking at in game wallets to see where isk has been transferred from player to player, So everyone I've ever ransomed is my Alt? Awesome. Another point, some corp's and alliances dont let their members do ransoms, so when I DO ransom them, I haveto promise not to let anyone know they actually paid me. The system you suggest would ruin alot of things in this game, personally I think cloak and dagger are key elements to the game. If you're worried, don't give people you don't know accs to your billions, jeez :) http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0612/Forums_sig_for_kublai.jpg Sig removed, lacks game related content. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -Pirlouit
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:31:00 - [18] Am I the only one that actually has my real name in my account details? Quote: Your Account Details: Username:xxx Full name:xxx xxxxxx Email: Date of birth:xxxxxx Gender:Male Country:United States Time zone:EST: Eastern Standard (GMT -5 hours) Edit Account Info \| Change password Seems like that should be trackable. Sure people could lie, but it seems like that would break some real world laws. Shamis
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:34:00 - [19] If alts were linked we wouldn't really need concord anymore, nor would we need as many GM's. The population would police itself. Why don't people sit at the stop lights in New York City and blow up trucks that look like they might drop good loot? Because they can't log in their alt and transfer the isk to him after the police whack him. Shamis
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Am I the only one that actually has my real name in my account details? Quote: Your Account Details: Username:xxx Full name:xxx xxxxxx Email: Date of birth:xxxxxx Gender:Male Country:United States Time zone:EST: Eastern Standard (GMT -5 hours) Edit Account Info \| Change password Seems like that should be trackable. Sure people could lie, but it seems like that would break some real world laws. Shamis If CCP starts giving our rl info about me I quit. And how to trace via identifying a main? mains are also sold and traded, faking a name isn't violating any rl laws in my country unless I use my credit card, I can use isk purcahsed gtc's. Again, WHO does the character belong to? rl name? CCP can't give out rl names, also many people share rl names. http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0612/Forums_sig_for_kublai.jpg Sig removed, lacks game related content. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -Pirlouit
vile56 Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.06 03:48:00 - [21] i think your streachin it a bit farther than the op intended kub, while all these may be true(the legality issues) i highly doubt ccp would implement something that is illegal in many countrys. yes you can change mains, yes you can pay with 3 dif credit cards, but most pay with one credit card, but your new main would then inturn own that alt that you scammed with ( eg slave) AND GIVE ME BACK INTNUB (i want my drunk ruskie)
kublai TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.06 04:26:00 - [22] Originally by: vile56 i think your streachin it a bit farther than the op intended kub, while all these may be true(the legality issues) i highly doubt ccp would implement something that is illegal in many countrys. yes you can change mains, yes you can pay with 3 dif credit cards, but most pay with one credit card, but your new main would then inturn own that alt that you scammed with ( eg slave) AND GIVE ME BACK INTNUB (i want my drunk ruskie) His MINE all MINE, I may rent him to you thoug, I could do with some more isk, i'm rather poor atm...damn me and my addiction to pimping things :( http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/0612/Forums_sig_for_kublai.jpg Sig removed, lacks game related content. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -Pirlouit
charseller	Posted - 2007.01.06 05:27:00 - [23] Edited by: charseller on 06/01/2007 05:24:12 nvrmind
Yukiko Kanezaki	Posted - 2007.01.06 08:55:00 - [24] What about an agent, such as a locater agent, that reveals the last 10 (example) player wallet transactions? 10 would be to small, so maybe something such as... 1-10 wallet entries - 1k isk per entry - ~hour for results. 11-30 wallet entries - 2k isk per entry - several hours for results. 31-100 wallet entries - 3k isk per entry - Upwards of a day for resulsts. And so on. The idea being that, the deeper you want to dig into someones wallet, the more you have to pay, because the transactions are old, and they take time to dig up, blah blah blah. You could also have a player picked filter for the searches, say, don't turn up any transactions under 10k isk. Meh, I dunno. Being able to attach alts to mains is a neat idea, and it would be great if it could be implimented in such a way as to allow scamming for those dedicated to it to still happen, but provide a means of detering corp theft.
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.06 09:06:00 - [25] CCP like giving ppl the ability to grief so i dont think u will see alts vanish for any time yet All posts made by myself represent my personal opinion only - they do not represent the rest of the privateer alliacne unless they decide to agree with what im saying
Katamarino Blazing Angels Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.01.06 11:32:00 - [26] The lamest thing IMO is 'Pirates' and 'Mercenaries' who won't even undock unless they have their throwaway velator alt scouting the system for them, and then tracking targets around. We've experienced several 'Merc' corps who do this, and while it didn't stop them being soundly beaten anyway, it's unbelievably pathetic! Grow some cajones, or get a real friend guys...
Kronn Blackthorne 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.06 11:34:00 - [27] Edited by: Kronn Blackthorne on 06/01/2007 11:31:48 if CCP gave tools to people to scam others , they also gave tools to avoid them ( check contract and so ) , so please THIS GAME IS NOT ON EASY MODE . people scammed and whinning need to go back play WoW where u don t lose anything when u are stupid . scams works only cause people are noob enough to fall in the trap . For once , EvE manage to be a really mature game on some sort , and it s a world where u can do everything u want ...... bout the alts used to scout and so ...it s the same as if u use teamplay with one of ur corpmate ..and so far , those alts are pretty easy to know who they belong to my 2 isks The Frenchy
Katamarino Blazing Angels Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.01.06 11:43:00 - [28] Yeah, it's easy to know who they belong to, but they are always hidden in Noob corps so you can't do a thing about them - at least a corp mate scouting gives accountability (ie in a war, you can shoot the git!). Alt scouts are simply meta-gaming!
Jhonen Senraedi Minmatar Decimus Corp Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.01.06 11:58:00 - [29] Could always go to the 1 character per account rather than 3...plus have an increase in the time before one could recycle a character...a week/a month ...rather than the current 24 hour period. Would probably cut down on a lot of alt scamming etc. Would also give a better time frame to try and locate and gain some sort of vengeance on the guilty. Some people here are saying that stupidity etc should be punished...well..Romeo built up an established business,was trusted etc. and scammed people out of a lot of money..no warning bells etc.(Nope..I wasn't one of them)..so to call everyone who gets ripped off stupid is..er..well..stupid. You can't always see a scam etc. coming...and before people say this sin't rl..like they always do when someone make s avalid point..People in real life get scammed..but there is a mechanism for the guilty to be punished and maybe even for the victim to regain some or all of what they lost...In Eve..a scammer alt just gets away with it..no comebacks or anything...Now that is truly science fiction and should be addressed. Character accountability and reputation is a major part of the game..and also a part of what makes Eve such a vibrant living enviroment...alts circumvent this..and that not only detracts from the game..but also legalises griefing in a base and more or less untraceable form.
sdeer	Posted - 2007.01.06 13:09:00 - [30] Don't forget that characters can bought and sold. One day you trace an alt to one player, another day to another.

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