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Mission runners are (again) untouchable...

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Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:48:00 - [1] I've done everything except skill Astrometric Triangulation to L5. Probes are completely worthless for probing out mission runners. Come on CCP, you remove the ability to attack targets at gates and stations, and now you have pretty much erased any chance of probing out a mission runner. What are solo pirates supposed to do these days? Don't tell me 'go pirate in belts' either. No one ever goes to a belt unless they're either 1: not worth killing (complete noob that doesn't know any better) or 2: bait for the gank squad sitting around in local that is so completely obvious it's pathetic. I used to have plenty of targets, killing 12-20 ships a day, and usually at least 6-8 battleships, all while solo or in a small (2-3 person) gang. All of that is gone now, so I'm pretty much reduced to waiting until someone actually wants a fight and makes the opportunity available to be attacked, or I do so myself and allow myself to be attacked on the enemies' terms just so I can get a fight. I fly all over 0.0 looking for targets. Everyone either safespots or has a Vagabond with 5 fighters assigned to it by some carrier at a POS or deepsafe, so don't tell me 'go fly out to 0.0, plenty of targets there'. I like flying in low-sec because it's not 0.0. No fighters (in .4 anyway) able to be assigned to ships, no dictors, no bubble camps. Give us the means to attack targets without their express consent. Otherwise this might as well be WoW: "Player A requests a fight. PVP? Yes or No?". If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Lord Slater Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:50:00 - [2] YaY ----------------------------------------------- YYAARRHH HAHAHA IM THE HAPPY PIRATE
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:51:00 - [3] Its very difficult to solo scan for mission runners now, and I cant say I like it either. At the same time I understand that mission runners in low sec dont want to get ganked by pirates. And if they make it easy for one pirate to scan a mission runner down, then a gang of pirates will find him almost instantly. There was a thread about this earlier today, and I almost started missing the old scanning system, hearing stories of how a guy used it to track people down using his personal skill and experience with it. Not a button in the GUI randomifying the procedure. So yeah, I hear you... I would be happy if this thing can be made better in some way, and make everybody happier. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:58:00 - [4] Originally by: Jim McGregor Its very difficult to solo scan for mission runners now, and I cant say I like it either. At the same time I understand that mission runners in low sec dont want to get ganked by pirates. And if they make it easy for one pirate to scan a mission runner down, then a gang of pirates will find him almost instantly. There was a thread about this earlier today, and I almost started missing the old scanning system, hearing stories of how a guy used it to track people down using his personal skill and experience with it. Not a button in the GUI randomifying the procedure. So yeah, I hear you... I would be happy if this thing can be made better in some way, and make everybody happier. :) Excuse me, but how difficult was it before the recent ridiculous scan probe changes? And how difficult is it now compared to that? Easier? Harder? EFFORT? No, you shouldn't be able to probe out a mission runner in 2 minutes and go gank them for all their faction mods. Yes you should have to put some effort in, grind or take some losses in the process.
Zeke Novak	Posted - 2007.01.05 23:59:00 - [5] Good times!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:00:00 - [6] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/01/2007 00:01:42 Originally by: BurnHard Excuse me, but how difficult was it before the recent ridiculous scan probe changes? And how difficult is it now compared to that? Easier? Harder? EFFORT? No, you shouldn't be able to probe out a mission runner in 2 minutes and go gank them for all their faction mods. Yes you should have to put some effort in, grind or take some losses in the process. Before the changes it was way too easy. I mean come on, even pirates said there was no challenge what so ever. They got bored. Then you know its BAD. But some kind of middle ground would be nice. It should be possible for a solo pirate to find another solo mission runner before he completes his mission. I dont think thats too much to ask for? This is a pvp oriented game, right? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Anna Grahm	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Bellum Eternus What are solo pirates supposed to do these days? Adapt.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I used to have plenty of targets, killing 12-20 ships a day, and usually at least 6-8 battleships, all while solo or in a small (2-3 person) gang. All of that is gone now, so I'm pretty much reduced to waiting until someone actually wants a fight and makes the opportunity available to be attacked, or I do so myself and allow myself to be attacked on the enemies' terms just so I can get a fight. Wow - you ganked 12 - 20 people per day? Doesn't that tell you something? Like how stupidly unbalanced the whole probing thing was? You aren't taking about fights, you are talking about ganks, so lets be clear: you are a care-bear pirate whiner and should go and fight RA or something instead of crying on the forums.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Jim McGregor But some kind of middle ground would be nice. It should be possible for a solo pirate to find another solo mission runner before he completes his mission. I dont think thats too much to ask for? This is a pvp oriented game, right? Yes, PvP means different things to people like you and me. I think if you want to gank people who don't want to fight you, you should have a chance but it shouldn't be handed to you on a plate. If you want a fair fight, between consenting children, then it's yours all day long. Consider the mission runner is already engaged in his PvE experience and so you have a huge advantage when you find him.
RedLion Caldari evenova	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:08:00 - [10] To OP: Cry me a river and touch my man **** really. and like my grandma says, Pwn like the best or whine like paris hilton..
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:09:00 - [11] Originally by: BurnHard Yes, PvP means different things to people like you and me. I think if you want to gank people who don't want to fight you, you should have a chance but it shouldn't be handed to you on a plate. Exacly. And thats all I ask. Quote: If you want a fair fight, between consenting children, then it's yours all day long. Consider the mission runner is already engaged in his PvE experience and so you have a huge advantage when you find him. I dont really believe in fair fights in a game like this, and I feel that if a mission runner is doing a mission and gets found, he dies. Thats fair and square and the way it should be. Thats why low sec is low sec. You are on your own. So for me, its just a question of how difficult it should be to find a mission runner to keep the game fun for everybody. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Jim McGregor So for me, its just a question of how difficult it should be to find a mission runner to keep the game fun for everybody. Well, I like to think the balance is okay now - previously it was totally out of whack. You have to consider that more players in low sec = good, so how discouraging would it be if mission runners could be probed out too easily? They'd all head back to high sec. Really, as a predator you should be smarter.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:12:00 - [13] Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 06/01/2007 00:14:45 Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 06/01/2007 00:13:30 It's funny because simultaneously some mission runners are still saying probeing is too easy and they shouldn't be able to be ganked in LowSec at all. I think the current balance such as it is is that any particular mission runner is fairly safe, but pirates have a good chance of getting somebody if they work in systems where there are a lot of targets. I wish there were more to it than that, but it doesn't seem completely unfair for either side. It's not good for solo pirates, but I think you either have to suck it up, team up, or lobby for a change back to some version of the old system. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:13:00 - [14] Both are playing solo: Advantage mission runner, he is risking more... If Mission runner is solo, and a group of pirates are in local and he gets ganked, he should have checked local more closely... Mission runner on a plate is not PvP... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Samirol Turbulent	Posted - 2007.01.06 00:14:00 - [15] Turby has been pwning mission runners fairly regularly, ask around the placid area Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it? Contact mach'ett3 for all your sig needs
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Samirol Turby has been pwning mission runners fairly regularly, ask around the placid area Then please let me in on how you're using the provided equipment (probes etc) to get a decent fix on the target. I've been using probes for weeks with literally zero result. I can probe out any normal safe spotted target with 100% reliability. This goes to 0 when trying to probe mission runners. I have all the same skills and all the same know how as anyone else. The chance based system just has too little of a chance to detect a mission runner. So please provide some info on how to effectively probe out a mission runner in a timely fashion with only one or two ships. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:04:00 - [17] Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Bellum Eternus I used to have plenty of targets, killing 12-20 ships a day, and usually at least 6-8 battleships, all while solo or in a small (2-3 person) gang. All of that is gone now, so I'm pretty much reduced to waiting until someone actually wants a fight and makes the opportunity available to be attacked, or I do so myself and allow myself to be attacked on the enemies' terms just so I can get a fight. Wow - you ganked 12 - 20 people per day? Doesn't that tell you something? Like how stupidly unbalanced the whole probing thing was? You aren't taking about fights, you are talking about ganks, so lets be clear: you are a care-bear pirate whiner and should go and fight RA or something instead of crying on the forums. I'm not talking about killing people after I had probed them out. I'm talking about killing battleships 1v1 while being shot by gate guns etc. at the gates before warp to 0km was introduced. Fair fights (more than fair, since they have the guns on their side) and equal risk for both parties. Quite risky on my part actually, but still fun. As it is now, there isn't any opportunity at all. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:07:00 - [18] Mission runners are not untouchable. Now scanning them out is a brute force exercise in spamming the "scan again" button. If you were killing as many ships as you say you were then you were making a pig of yourself at the all-you-can-eat carebear buffet. Want to blame someone for the changes? Look in the mirror. What you did was neither challenging nor particularly clever. Rather than restrain yourself you killed everything in sight and CCP reacted and changed it. I'm not a carebear but I can't say I blame them one bit.
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:09:00 - [19] Quote: I used to have plenty of targets, killing 12-20 ships a day, and usually at least 6-8 battleships, I used to be able to kill a frigate with a single torpedo, and a cruiser with 3, now I can't kill a frigate with 10 torpedos CCP THE INJUSTICE!!!
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:09:00 - [20] IMHO they should revamp the whole mission thing to make it more like PvP. Less targets, that hit harder and will attempt to warp away when low on health. Make missions doable in a PvP fitted ship instead of requiring faction stuff if you want to run them anywhere near efficiently.
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:14:00 - [21] Conservation at work, I think. You can't hunt them into extinction. CN Ravens and GN Megathrons take time to respawn.
Anna Smacke	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:16:00 - [22] Originally by: Bellum Eternus I used to have plenty of targets, killing 12-20 ships a day, and usually at least 6-8 battleships, all while solo or in a small (2-3 person) gang. Probably answered your own question.
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:18:00 - [23] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Mission runners are not untouchable. Now scanning them out is a brute force exercise in spamming the "scan again" button. If you were killing as many ships as you say you were then you were making a pig of yourself at the all-you-can-eat carebear buffet. Want to blame someone for the changes? Look in the mirror. What you did was neither challenging nor particularly clever. Rather than restrain yourself you killed everything in sight and CCP reacted and changed it. I'm not a carebear but I can't say I blame them one bit. Not really. I was simply able to kill well set up well defended ships while enduring gate gun fire due to the fact that I am/was flying an almost maxed out BS with a healthy dose of implants, hardwirings and T2/Faction/Officer modules. The fights were always close, but one of the key reasons that I was able to attack in the first place was because my targets thought they were safe/capable of defending themselves. Not because anything was out of balance. As it sits now, there is zero reason for anyone to ever expose themselves to anything when it comes to enemy fire. It's lame. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:20:00 - [24] i think it would be cool for (Deadspace only!) you need 3 pilots and a seperate type of scanning device. here is my $.02 ppl will still use scanning probes etc for everything else in the game. but force ppl that want to exclusively bust in on ppls deadspace to have to go the extra mile, including fitting. instead of a probe launcher, use a different module.... lets call it 'triangulation beacon'. No new skills needed, use same skills as scan probes. Now in this scenario, you need three ships, each w/ a triangulation beacon in different parts of the system. this forces pirates to go the extra mile to pwn mission runners. it would be easier than now, but also... you cant do it solo (remember, the one M in mmo stands for multiplayer). adjust the idea as you wish. change it up a bit. i think would be fair compromise. prats will need to not only be organized into gang instead of just solo gankers but will need to sacrifice a high slot (and thats ONLY for deadspace!! everything else in game stays same w/ probing) mission runners would not need to hide everytime local jumped up by one, only when it jumped up by three when a problem cant be fixed by beer, turn to compromise.
Ogdru Jahad Amarr Dark Entropy	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:20:00 - [25] Jesus H Christ Bellum Eternus!! nothing pleases you guys does it? - During the extended downtime
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:21:00 - [26] Meh, whatever. Just trust me when I say you aren't winning anyone over with your line of reasoning. "Dear CCP, I can't chainspawn highend mission runners" is what this thread boils down to.
Dau Imperius Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:21:00 - [27] I've got a logical conclusion here: What's the point of even having any sort of PvE in EVE if all the PvPers want to do is gank everyone else. So my question: What are you thinking CCP? EVE is primarily PvP you keep telling us, yet you offer PvE that encourages the worst kind of PvP: Free kill mails. Ios that PvP? Here's a thought: Get rid of PvE outside Empire and not only will you finally see the monster you all are, but you'll see that the players here won't be able to support thier killing sprees on merely killing each other in wars anymore. They'll have to come back to Empire and whine. Whine cheese, all these forums are silly. I think I'll prescibe prozac and ridilin for you all. :)
DR HK Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:49:00 - [28] You say you could kill 12-20 ships a day you are the product of you own demise!.This clearly was two easy for you now that your skills have become stagnant you are finding it hard.In any pvp game you need to always be pushed to the max that is where the fun is!!!.Risk and reward. There simple arnt any easy kills for you as there was before so now you have to think around the problem presented to you.In other words you my have to risk more!!! ot get more.Unless you can think of somthing better.
ShadowKi Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:53:00 - [29] People do not like being on the wrong side of a gank... You need bait, go fishing with an ibis lol.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.01.06 01:59:00 - [30] I never go to low sec or deep space by my own. Its no point. It was usually a "instant death" happening. The scanning system where and are pretty easy. With the new skills the reduction in scaning time increases the chance of scans pretty fast. Maybe the reason why you cant find so many people anymore is because noone is going there? I know many of the people I know in the game dont go there anymore, unless they are in a alliance. And then they keep to their area. It is simply not worth it. It takes time to sc***a fortune in empire, but at least what you earn there you are able to keep. Besides, there are too many pirates in EVE. A few less would also makes it more attractive for non-pirates. Most of you have said adapt and stfu to the "carebears". Maybe its the time for the carebears to return the words? EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER**

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