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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.06 16:07:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: subvert
what is noobish is flying into low-sec and complaining because its not easy enough for you to pod people 
Who's complaining?
I'm happy the way it is.
You spend way too much oxygen.
[OMG! SMASH!] |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.01.06 16:13:00 -
[62]
Considering that pirates the mission runners hunt are in deadspace becaus of how they are able to hide there, I'd kinda expect it to be hard to scan them down.
Be glad there aren't nebulai in EVE yet, you're never finding anyone inside one of those.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente
Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.01.06 16:30:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Come on CCP, you remove the ability to attack targets at gates and stations, and now you have pretty much erased any chance of probing out a mission runner.
They just fixed the risk vs. reward. The risk of attacking mission runners was close to zero, the reward huge. Meaning that the time investment to do it should be huge as well to balance it.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
What are solo pirates supposed to do these days? Don't tell me 'go pirate in belts' either. No one ever goes to a belt unless they're either 1: not worth killing (complete noob that doesn't know any better) or 2: bait for the gank squad sitting around in local that is so completely obvious it's pathetic.
Fight other solo pirates? You, sir, are part of the problem. You aren't willing to let yourself be ganked, but are willing to gank others. There are many more of you out there, never engaging each other because of your own preferred play style.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
or I do so myself and allow myself to be attacked on the enemies' terms just so I can get a fight.
Yes, if you want to turn the tide of the gank but not-wannabe-ganked mentality.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I fly all over 0.0 looking for targets. Everyone either safespots or has a Vagabond with 5 fighters assigned to it by some carrier at a POS or deepsafe.
So, once again you want to gank, but not be-ganked. That remains the core of your problem, and many other solo-pirates who roam low-sec and 0.0. As long as you all continue think that way, you won't get many targets.
Thank god somebody said it.
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Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.06 17:31:00 -
[64]
I agree with the OP. Is it too much to ask lvl 4 mission abusers to check local, scanner and maybe halfway align towards a planet? This is what most of us do while ratting on 0.0. Ive never been ganked in a belt out in 0.0 and there are lots of roaming gangs dropping in and out of my ratting system. If you wanna get the nice loot/rewards then you gotta play in the tough league imo. Its idiotic to have ppl run lvl 4 missions with 0 risk. My 2cents...
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Capt Rob
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.01.06 17:37:00 -
[65]
no offense to the op but im a very big soloer and i do always get a share of the things your talking about etc, but its lifes and i have still been able to get lots of kills, adapt or go mine
Signature removed due to inappropriate content. -Ivan K |
Dhaeron Lhun
Caldari
Eve University
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Posted - 2007.01.06 17:44:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I used to have plenty of targets, killing 12-20 ships a day, and usually at least 6-8 battleships, all while solo or in a small (2-3 person) gang. All of that is gone now, so I'm pretty much reduced to waiting until someone actually wants a fight and makes the opportunity available to be attacked, or I do so myself and allow myself to be attacked on the enemies' terms just so I can get a fight.
Yeah what the hell do you expect? If there's as many pirates as mission runners your numbers would mean the mission runners get killed ten times a day. Do you imagine mission runners just long for the opportunity to give all their ISK to pirates? Heck, even with a hundred times as many mission runners as pirates, losing a battleship every ten days still isn't worth it. What do you want? Your own squad of a dozen mission runners who live for the express purpose of providing you with juicy target to shoot? Get real.
Sheesh, sometimes these forums make me think you have to switch off your brain as a requirement for pirating.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.06 19:50:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
I agree with the OP. Is it too much to ask lvl 4 mission abusers to check local, scanner and maybe halfway align towards a planet? This is what most of us do while ratting on 0.0. Ive never been ganked in a belt out in 0.0 and there are lots of roaming gangs dropping in and out of my ratting system. If you wanna get the nice loot/rewards then you gotta play in the tough league imo. Its idiotic to have ppl run lvl 4 missions with 0 risk. My 2cents...
Ratting == 2-3 ships that are less powerful than yours are, and a low DPS.
L4 missions == 50-80 ships that are less powerful than yours are but DPS to frighten capital ships.
How are you supposed to watch local and scanners for one or two people (out of the 40-50 in local, 50-80 red blobs on scanners) when your scanner is already full of hostiles? Perhaps you should run some LoSec missions in the areas where pirate hang out and try again with the post....
<----------->
MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests....
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=426616
LowSec != NoSec
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.06 20:23:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
I agree with the OP. Is it too much to ask lvl 4 mission abusers to check local, scanner and maybe halfway align towards a planet? This is what most of us do while ratting on 0.0. Ive never been ganked in a belt out in 0.0 and there are lots of roaming gangs dropping in and out of my ratting system. If you wanna get the nice loot/rewards then you gotta play in the tough league imo. Its idiotic to have ppl run lvl 4 missions with 0 risk. My 2cents...
Ratting == 2-3 ships that are less powerful than yours are, and a low DPS.
L4 missions == 50-80 ships that are less powerful than yours are but DPS to frighten capital ships.
How are you supposed to watch local and scanners for one or two people (out of the 40-50 in local, 50-80 red blobs on scanners) when your scanner is already full of hostiles? Perhaps you should run some LoSec missions in the areas where pirate hang out and try again with the post....
In the interests of accuracy.
Level 4 missions won't scratch a cap ship (well, except Remedials)
Npc's no longer appear on your scanner so it's only players that will.
*Bringing factual accuracy to a post near you!*
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Donkee Punch
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Posted - 2007.01.06 20:42:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Anna Grahm
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
What are solo pirates supposed to do these days?
Adapt.
One of the BEST response Posts.. EVER!!
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.06 22:27:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
I agree with the OP. Is it too much to ask lvl 4 mission abusers to check local, scanner and maybe halfway align towards a planet? This is what most of us do while ratting on 0.0. Ive never been ganked in a belt out in 0.0 and there are lots of roaming gangs dropping in and out of my ratting system. If you wanna get the nice loot/rewards then you gotta play in the tough league imo. Its idiotic to have ppl run lvl 4 missions with 0 risk. My 2cents...
Ratting == 2-3 ships that are less powerful than yours are, and a low DPS.
L4 missions == 50-80 ships that are less powerful than yours are but DPS to frighten capital ships.
How are you supposed to watch local and scanners for one or two people (out of the 40-50 in local, 50-80 red blobs on scanners) when your scanner is already full of hostiles? Perhaps you should run some LoSec missions in the areas where pirate hang out and try again with the post....
Perhaps setting your overview to display neutrals ontop of rats? Why shouldnt it be harder? Youre getting more isk off those missions anyway then ratting gives. All those LPs....
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smashsmash
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Posted - 2007.01.06 22:35:00 -
[71]
i wonder if im the only one that has never used a probe.
----
Would you like some cries with your whaaamburger? |
Nidhoggur
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.01.06 23:21:00 -
[72]
Originally by: zaqq
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
-]o- BOOOOM
best example of shot down in flames i've seen for quite a few years
Despite the comments of the WoW wannabees, seems to me the OP is pretty much spot on. Solo EVE is dead, unfortunately. Doesn't kill EVE, and doesn't make it a bad game. Just changes things a bit. But yes, there is very little non-consensual combat avaliable.
My slightly obscure WoW comment was in relation to this very fact. While you may chide the OP for 'being afraid to get ganked' in one persons very ignorant opinion, you must clearly realise that the only possible way of making low-sec dangerous IS non-consensual PVP. Pirates, namely. And no, solo pirates should not have to fight of gank-gangs of other pirates, simply because there is no alternative PVP avaliable. That's not what EVE is about.
EVE is a game universe, not merely game system, and there's quite a distinct difference. Namely, that not everything is governed by what would be most fun for part of the playerbase. Part of the design is what would be more REAL, what would contribute more to the atmosphere of the EVE universe. And pirates are very much part of that atmosphere. Read the chronicles if you don't believe me. Pirates and non-consensual PVP are part of what makes EVE. Remember that, like I hope the Devs will.
After reading this post, don't click that reply button immediately. Peruse it at least once more, for EVEs sake, and try and keep in mind that our beloved game is not a simple MMO, but an evolving story.
Nid
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Wylbur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.07 00:20:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Nidhoggur
you must clearly realise that the only possible way of making low-sec dangerous IS non-consensual PVP.
Big, nasty, juicy, tasty rats would do the trick. Maybe they could really like to hang out aroung the gates.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.01.07 00:31:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Wylbur
Originally by: Nidhoggur
you must clearly realise that the only possible way of making low-sec dangerous IS non-consensual PVP.
Big, nasty, juicy, tasty rats would do the trick. Maybe they could really like to hang out aroung the gates.
See the very fact that you're salivating over the idea indicates it wouldn't be a threat so much as a gift.
What's the point? Pirates are far more interesting content than any uberhaxx but pea-brained AI NPC. A lot of people understand that fact, but many don't. Pirates are game content.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
BurnHard
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Posted - 2007.01.07 00:36:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Nidhoggur
EVE is a game universe, not merely game system, and there's quite a distinct difference. Namely, that not everything is governed by what would be most fun for part of the playerbase. Part of the design is what would be more REAL, what would contribute more to the atmosphere of the EVE universe. And pirates are very much part of that atmosphere. Read the chronicles if you don't believe me. Pirates and non-consensual PVP are part of what makes EVE. Remember that, like I hope the Devs will.
But you are missing a key point: that PvE play and PvP play are mutually exclusive. Many low sec "pirates" have failed to grasp this basic fact, especially when they come onto the forums to both find ways of "forcing" PvE players into low sec by lowering empire rewards and at the same time wishing for easier ways to kill them. The OP is simply arguing for some kind of PvP that they can participate in, rather than the usual one-sided paper/scissors/stone scenarios you usually get in many low sec encounters.
It is an irony that CCP have to include and improve PvE play if they want to maintain and increase their subscriber numbers.
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Wylbur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.07 00:41:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
What's the point? Pirates are far more interesting content than any uberhaxx but pea-brained AI NPC. A lot of people understand that fact, but many don't. Pirates are game content.
Pirates are not interesting. NPCs stay for the fight. I don't think most pirates really care about being content. Most pirates only really care about the self gratification they get out of make someone unhappy in RL.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.07 02:31:00 -
[77]
Originally by: d026
Edited by: d026 on 06/01/2007 14:38:22
Quote:
I fly all over 0.0 looking for targets. Everyone either safespots or has a Vagabond with 5 fighters assigned to it by some carrier at a POS or deepsafe, so don't tell me 'go fly out to 0.0, plenty of targets there'.
i really honestly don't believe you! im living in the "quiet" north at the moment. AND I TELL YOU its damn hard not to fly into a outbreak ganksquad couple of times a day.. besides i was also living in the south, we used to be a v passcorp.. well you wont tell me that you are not damn busy with ra? really wonder at all why you fighting missionrunners instead of defending your space..?
It's stuff like this that *****s me up. I can run two accounts and have one in fleet (and be on TS etc.) waiting for RA to log back in so we can kill them, and at the same time have another account somewhere else roaming around looking for stuff to shoot at.
That's how boring/lame chasing RA/Goonfleet is.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.07 02:35:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Euthanasia XXX
So prior to the nerfing of scanning requiring talent and dedication (Revelations patch), how many ships were you killing per day?
And why arent you spearheading the fight against warp bubbles and gate camps and fighters and transversal velocity? You seem to hate those as well?
I was killing 12-24 ships per day during Revelations. Quite consistantly.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer. |
Kharo Khann
Cosmology
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Posted - 2007.01.07 02:58:00 -
[79]
If i'm on a pve mission, handed out by npc agents, i don't wanna be ganked by other players. Period. It's a npc mission. On pve missions players have specific mission setups, being completely different in setup from pvp. And, even having the best pve setup, they wont have a chance against a group of carebearing pvpers.
If i'm on exploration, complex running or whatsoever, then i'll have no probs at all. (because it's not a npc mission)
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zaqq
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Posted - 2007.01.07 03:40:00 -
[80]
i've never tried wow, is that where you came from ?
are you REALLY trying to say you can't find ppl to kill in 0.0
tell me, for real. is killing mission runners that gratifying ? i personally only use tech 2 mods.
in my own view, there should be no sentries anywhere under 0.5
and i'd like no concord interference when i'm in mission in empire, so i could at least fight back, should you decide to enter my space.
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AvatarADV
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Posted - 2007.01.07 03:44:00 -
[81]
Think about it as a sort of dynamic equilibrium.
Low-security space has better rewards. So people are lured there to mine. But pirates follow them there, racking up many kills a day each. The people getting killed aren't idiots - nobody likes getting killed - so they learn. They stop going solo. They move in well-armed packs and limit their exposure. Suddenly there aren't enough targets to keep the pirates happy; the best ones still take their prizes, and the other ones are crowded out. Some of these guys "go legit", join a corp, pick up a mining laser, what have you. Others get bored and quit.
Suddenly there's not all that many pirates out there. Low-security space is safer with fewer lone killers floating around, and most of the teams are busy with their own tasks. With fewer pirates around, there's more opportunity for profit, especially for the marginal folk who had previously been forced out of low-sec space. Some people start risking solo runs again, and getting away with it, because the pirates are bored or legit or elsewhere. More and more pilots take the risk...
Suddenly there's all these people running around unprotected in low-sec space. The occasional person turns to piracy...
The OP is clearly a victim of his and his compatriot's own success. My suggestion is to lie low for a while, find something else to do, and wait for the turn of the wheel...
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.01.07 07:54:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Wylbur
Pirates are not interesting. NPCs stay for the fight. I don't think most pirates really care about being content. Most pirates only really care about the self gratification they get out of make someone unhappy in RL.
If you truly think evil NPCs are more interesting than "evil" players, I don't know what to say. 
Nice generalization about pirating by the way. Why do I think you haven't met many?
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Aknot Wat
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Posted - 2007.01.07 08:20:00 -
[83]
I can't stand pirates, at least the kind in EvE. Hell I hate going to even lowsec since it's turned in to "0.0-light" and even empire has slowly become "lowsec-light".
BUT....
We need rare and hard to get minerals. So the corp has to mine in lowsec on down. This forces us to THINK. We spend weeks ahead of time finding juicy areas to mine in. We make sure it has safe exits, we make sure it's not too player [local] heavy. Only then do we bring in the strip miners...escorted by a mini fleet.
Pirates and gankers are a dirty fact of life. I hope one day we can all live in peace, but I doubt that will ever happen.
We had to adjust our tactics to survive. I suggest you do the same.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.07 09:11:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
I agree with the OP. Is it too much to ask lvl 4 mission abusers to check local, scanner and maybe halfway align towards a planet? This is what most of us do while ratting on 0.0. Ive never been ganked in a belt out in 0.0 and there are lots of roaming gangs dropping in and out of my ratting system. If you wanna get the nice loot/rewards then you gotta play in the tough league imo. Its idiotic to have ppl run lvl 4 missions with 0 risk. My 2cents...
Align on a planet = not aligned to the next gate. And usually there are 100 km to go for the next gate.
So you can choose to do the mission and align on the gate or be more safe and never complete the mission.
So please avoid doing suggestion on thing you don't know.
And your 0.0 rats give at least 3-4 times the reward of a level 4 mission, so you can efford to risk your ship more often.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.07 09:15:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/01/2007 09:14:01
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Ratting == 2-3 ships that are less powerful than yours are, and a low DPS.
L4 missions == 50-80 ships that are less powerful than yours are but DPS to frighten capital ships.
How are you supposed to watch local and scanners for one or two people (out of the 40-50 in local, 50-80 red blobs on scanners) when your scanner is already full of hostiles? Perhaps you should run some LoSec missions in the areas where pirate hang out and try again with the post....
In the interests of accuracy.
Level 4 missions won't scratch a cap ship (well, except Remedials)
Npc's no longer appear on your scanner so it's only players that will.
*Bringing factual accuracy to a post near you!*
But wrecks appear on scanner if you want to scan for probes. So after starting the battle you have plenty of clutter.
Originally by: lira skydancer
Perhaps setting your overview to display neutrals ontop of rats? Why shouldnt it be harder? Youre getting more isk off those missions anyway then ratting gives. All those LPs....
Like in: to see probes you should disable overview settings.
And again, never done a level 4 mission and looked the rewars?
Whiner.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.07 09:26:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 07/01/2007 09:27:24
Originally by: Nidhoggur
EVE is a game universe, not merely game system, and there's quite a distinct difference. Namely, that not everything is governed by what would be most fun for part of the playerbase. Part of the design is what would be more REAL, what would contribute more to the atmosphere of the EVE universe. And pirates are very much part of that atmosphere. Read the chronicles if you don't believe me. Pirates and non-consensual PVP are part of what makes EVE. Remember that, like I hope the Devs will.
Nid
Yes, but exactly for that real feeling, people avoid the zones were the chance to be casually killed are too high.
If you value the real feeling you must accept that no one will enther your turf unless he feel he has sufficent protection.
In real life you rarely see a old lady with a bank evolope in hand entering in one of the worst parts of a town.
And shopowners are very careful moving cash and protecting the shop with alarms, armored grates, ecc.
Generally in RL the local thug band ask protection money in exchange for tranquility.
In EVE almost no one do that.
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Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.01.07 12:15:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Align on a planet = not aligned to the next gate. And usually there are 100 km to go for the next gate.
So you can choose to do the mission and align on the gate or be more safe and never complete the mission.
So please avoid doing suggestion on thing you don't know.
And your 0.0 rats give at least 3-4 times the reward of a level 4 mission, so you can efford to risk your ship more often.
Ehm, I always do missions aligned to a planet or other celestial object. It's not a race you know. Usually I still have a couple of hours left to recieve the bonus as I cash in the mission after looting and salvaging.
Are you doing missions with all cargo-expanders in your lows to make your ship that slow?
Originally by: Venkul Mul
But wrecks appear on scanner if you want to scan for probes. So after starting the battle you have plenty of clutter.
How about setting up your overview to show probes but not wrecks?
Originally by: Venkul Mul
And again, never done a level 4 mission and looked the rewars?
The rewards for lvl 4s are insane. Completely insane. I just made 50 million isk from a three jump, 0.1 m3 courier mission. +4 implants sell for quite a lot.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Yes, but exactly for that real feeling, people avoid the zones were the chance to be casually killed are too high.
If you value the real feeling you must accept that no one will enther your turf unless he feel he has sufficent protection.
In real life you rarely see a old lady with a bank evolope in hand entering in one of the worst parts of a town.
And shopowners are very careful moving cash and protecting the shop with alarms, armored grates, ecc.
Generally in RL the local thug band ask protection money in exchange for tranquility.
In EVE almost no one do that.
In EVE a lot of people do the equivalent or transporting cash with no protection. They are usually the ones who come to the forums to complain about piracy.
In EVE a lot of pirates ask for protection money. It's called a ransom. Problem is, most people are too miffed about being caught out stupid to offer any payment.
/Ki
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Iyanah
Minmatar
Mining Munitions and Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.01.07 12:29:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I've done everything except skill Astrometric Triangulation to L5. Probes are completely worthless for probing out mission runners. Come on CCP, you remove the ability to attack targets at gates and stations, and now you have pretty much erased any chance of probing out a mission runner.
What are solo pirates supposed to do these days? Don't tell me 'go pirate in belts' either. No one ever goes to a belt unless they're either 1: not worth killing (complete noob that doesn't know any better) or 2: bait for the gank squad sitting around in local that is so completely obvious it's pathetic.
I used to have plenty of targets, killing 12-20 ships a day, and usually at least 6-8 battleships, all while solo or in a small (2-3 person) gang. All of that is gone now, so I'm pretty much reduced to waiting until someone actually wants a fight and makes the opportunity available to be attacked, or I do so myself and allow myself to be attacked on the enemies' terms just so I can get a fight.
I fly all over 0.0 looking for targets. Everyone either safespots or has a Vagabond with 5 fighters assigned to it by some carrier at a POS or deepsafe, so don't tell me 'go fly out to 0.0, plenty of targets there'.
I like flying in low-sec because it's not 0.0. No fighters (in .4 anyway) able to be assigned to ships, no dictors, no bubble camps. Give us the means to attack targets without their express consent. Otherwise this might as well be WoW: "Player A requests a fight. PVP? Yes or No?".
get together with your corp mates, form a gang, all start scanning.
it's easy if you work as a team. it's encouraging group work, and social interaction. my, my, how dare an MMORPG force you to interact with another human being!!
==========================================
Iy |
Malcanis
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Posted - 2007.01.07 12:40:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly
IMHO they should revamp the whole mission thing to make it more like PvP. Less targets, that hit harder and will attempt to warp away when low on health. Make missions doable in a PvP fitted ship instead of requiring faction stuff if you want to run them anywhere near efficiently.
AGREED!
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.01.07 13:39:00 -
[90]
Gotta love pirates with no clue disguising as runners and making stupid arguments...
Originally by: Ki An
Ehm, I always do missions aligned to a planet or other celestial object. It's not a race you know. Usually I still have a couple of hours left to recieve the bonus as I cash in the mission after looting and salvaging.
If you really think that, you fail at missions. It IS a race. Since it is all about the isk/time ratio.
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Venkul Mul
But wrecks appear on scanner if you want to scan for probes. So after starting the battle you have plenty of clutter.
How about setting up your overview to show probes but not wrecks?
Well it sure would be nice to do that, but doh... there is no option for showing probes in the overview settings? They only appear on scanner if you disable overview settings and show ALL.
---------
ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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