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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.09 14:54:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Lady Noir
Blah blah.
Again you seek to make a point to someone who doesn't understand the RP system without bothering to explain the RP system in a way that supports your point.
You keep using the word "decent".
Assume I consider 1 rp a week decent and work from there. Why can't I get 1 rp a week with almost no work? It's obvious you think I can't so that means I don't understand something.
How about you explain it instead of getting all agitated and saying Im wrong about something I've admitted I'm probably wrong about from the start. If you do not wish to explain it then don't bother replying to me in the first place.
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2007.01.09 14:55:00 -
[92]
My claim is not wrong, i stated that the max runs on the best success chance decryptor is 4 runs, 40 for modules, yes, there is a 9 run decryptor but success chance is only like 1 in every 8-10 jobs, it's the lowest success rate decryptor of them all, why use this decryptor if you need to do 8+ jobs before you get a success when you could just use the 4 runs max success chance decryptor and get at least half of your jobs succeed resulting in 4 runs?
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Nimie
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Posted - 2007.01.09 14:56:00 -
[93]
the initial cost is small if you consider the profits it can make. grinding missions is also pretty easy if you only need lvl 3 agents. the only real cost is training, but if you plan on t2 production, you will learn most of the skills already.
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2007.01.09 15:00:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Sorela
Originally by: Lady Noir
Blah blah.
Again you seek to make a point to someone who doesn't understand the RP system without bothering to explain the RP system in a way that supports your point.
You keep using the word "decent".
Assume I consider 1 rp a week decent and work from there. Why can't I get 1 rp a week with almost no work? It's obvious you think I can't so that means I don't understand something.
How about you explain it instead of getting all agitated and saying Im wrong about something I've admitted I'm probably wrong about from the start. If you do not wish to explain it then don't bother replying to me in the first place.
I don't feel like explaining it, i'm just telling you that you are wrong about how the entire system works, therefore your plan is not going to work, you are welcome to try it though.
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Nimie
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Posted - 2007.01.09 15:04:00 -
[95]
anyone have a chance to say roughly how many 40 run module bpcs you could invent a month?
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.09 15:28:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Lady Noir
I don't feel like explaining it, i'm just telling you that you are wrong about how the entire system works, therefore your plan is not going to work, you are welcome to try it though.
Well I just read through the nice research agent guide right on this site. It says pretty simply I need some easy to acquire skills and barely any standing to get a lvl 1 agent that gives me that bare minimum RP/day that I consider to be decent.
So your unwillingness to me seems to just be reluctance to admit the term "decent" is objective and that I can indeed get RP's for little to no work from my point of view.
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J Valkor
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Posted - 2007.01.09 15:49:00 -
[97]
Does this mean Heavy Missile Launcher II's will drop in price?
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2007.01.09 16:05:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Sorela
Originally by: Lady Noir
I don't feel like explaining it, i'm just telling you that you are wrong about how the entire system works, therefore your plan is not going to work, you are welcome to try it though.
Well I just read through the nice research agent guide right on this site. It says pretty simply I need some easy to acquire skills and barely any standing to get a lvl 1 agent that gives me that bare minimum RP/day that I consider to be decent.
So your unwillingness to me seems to just be reluctance to admit the term "decent" is objective and that I can indeed get RP's for little to no work from my point of view.
If you are happy with 5 rp a day and 1 datacore every 100 days then thats fine. You can sell that datacore for about 10 mill, that's a laughable amount of isk to all but a person that's played eve for no more than a week.
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Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 17:16:00 -
[99]
Sorela, you are just being silly now. If you consider 5 RP a day "decent," good for you. Anyone who has an interest in actually producing the darn things will need much more. That's really the key here, that it's not very profitable to do ship invention, because the costs involved are much higher than the prices.
That said, I don't particularly have an opinion on how high the prices should be, but the T2 ship prices will stabilize at some point where it's profitable to do some invention. That may be far off in the future. I'd prefer invention to be easier so that the prices stay at current levels or so, but whatever, this isn't about the OP.
Lady Noir, much thanks for the info on Invention. With your input, hopefully something will be done to reduce the cost of inventing ships to make it a profitable venture for people. I think modules will drop in price, however, and don't need to be looked at. Again, ships may rise in price to equilibrium, but that's far into the future.
Repopulate Low-Sec Paxton Industries is Recruiting
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.09 17:21:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Sorela on 09/01/2007 17:20:45
Originally by: Lady Noir
If you are happy with 5 rp a day and 1 datacore every 100 days then thats fine. You can sell that datacore for about 10 mill, that's a laughable amount of isk to all but a person that's played eve for no more than a week.
90 mil for practically no work you mean. That in itself is hardly laughable for all but a serious money earner if they aren't even playing for a few months. This is all totally ignoring the fact that it's clear with minimal training time the alts can produce far more than 5rp a day and the mains which already have skills can produce even more.
It's not some serious money making scheme no doubt but the fact remains it's probably worth doing for newer players and if they bother to set it up it'll stay setup and continue producing datacores till whoever set it up quit. In contrast I suspect the T2 BPO lottery seemed worthless to a good chunk of people at least.
Originally by: Daos Leghki Sorela, you are just being silly now. If you consider 5 RP a day "decent," good for you.
No I don't consider it decent. The actual number we are discussing is 45 RP a day minimum and I am exagerating to make fun of the fact that they claimed it'd take two months to make an alt that would output "decent" RP. So yes it is purposely silly to contrast such a silly claim.
Like vet's who go around saying you MUST have T2 modules or you just aren't even playing the game.
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Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2007.01.09 17:33:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Sorela
Decent is an objective word. According to the provided figures I'll be able to get 9 datacores per 100 days (3 accounts 3 chars) for minimal training time. Looking at the skills I can double this number in a single days training time by training Laboratory Operation 1 on all 9 characters. A little more training time to get Lab Op 3 on all 9 characters quadruples it to 36 datacores per 100 days.
Your argument is completely flawed in that you are looking at how to maximize things whereas I am only looking at how to get a little something extra out of the accounts I already pay for. Even if you don't consider this a substantial amount if it's profitable everyone will at least do this much and thus datacore prices will drop.
If I am wrong in this at least point me to why I'm wrong without pointing out false scenarios where you assume me to be so stupid that I would train up 3 months of skills when I don't have to. I fully admit I don't know all the mechanics yet and I could very well be wrong but you and the other person have only sought to present cases which have absolutely nothing at all to do with what I am discussing.
You are hypotising something I was tinking to propose to my corporation. Not something worth it as a research character but someting potentially worthwile for support characters.
As most characters end up with at least science 4 for use of the tractor beam, and mechanic and engineering 5 for AF, or Electronics 5 for cloaks, it is not so hard for them to train laboratory operations 1, research 1 (honestly don't recall if that is a needed prerequisite as I had it for start), and 3 skill in one of those science fields without other prerequisites.
Almost all combat pilotes (at least the mission runners) have enough standing to get to the level 2 agents in some research corporation.
So spending between 15 to 25 days (depend on how dense is the pilot) they can recover about 30 rp/day without extra work, nothing great but acceptable for support to the research/invention.
Laboratory operation: that damn description is misleading. those are extra laboratory slot you can use.
To get multiple researcher you need "Research project management".
Good luck.
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IndIIy
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Posted - 2007.01.09 17:48:00 -
[102]
where can i see what does each decryptor do for example like someone said "Installation Guide gives 1.3x to probability of success, -3 "points" to ME, but plus 2 to PE and plus 4 to runs" i wana see this but for minimatar one / angels
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.09 17:51:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Sorela on 09/01/2007 17:48:38
Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne
To get multiple researcher you need "Research project management".
Yea I noticed my mistake a little later. It is indeed pretty misleading. As for my actual scenario all 3 of my accounts actually have good standings and despite never being intended for this sort of thing the math looks like I can make a very substantial amount.
My only question really at this point is this formula:
RP/day = (Agent skill level + player skill level)¦ x [(Agent's effective quality/100)+1]
This implies that even with both the player and agent having lvl 5 skill you can only get about 30 rp per agent? You said something about 100 earlier I think. Were you talking per agent or all agents cumulative? Also I assume the bonus of higher level agents comes in the form of them having higher skill level?
Thank you for the info btw.
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.09 20:34:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne ... "Step 2) run some missions and train some skills" train a bit of social and contacts for a better standing, run missions for standing, train frigate to 4 (as a character maximized for research has 1 for starter) and cruiser to 1 to do the missions, train the scentific field to at least 1, start researching with the first decent agent. Spend some million for ships and time doing level 1 missions.
...
Train the skill as high as you can while increasing your standig, so that you will get better agents every time you increase the skill. Level 5 should be more than another month.
While I can't disagree with your point as a whole, wouldn't it be much easier to do the standings stuff with ONE character, and then have your research alts join your mission-*****'s corporation for a few days? Then they can just run off of your mission-*****'s standings for the purposes of acquiring high-level R&D agents.
--P
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IndIIy
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Posted - 2007.01.09 20:42:00 -
[105]
ok this is the stupidest tuff i ever invested in i made 4 atempts to creat t2 distruptors first using 15 runs bpc second whit 5 and 3 and 4 whit 4 each and nothing how many times do i have to try and no one tald me how many runs must a bpc have and waht is the best decryptor no one knows anything about this and ccp dosnt post anything about it
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2007.01.09 21:19:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:26:33 Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:25:07
Originally by: Mohoi Well again, Lady Noir you where wrong on many fronts. The max run enhancing decrypter has a multiplyer of 9, i.e. modules have a theoretical max run of 90 and Ships of 9!
Your calculations are again way off. Why don't you give us a brake and shut up. You should pay more attention to your homework (math ftw).
You should learn to read, if you could do so, you would have READ me saying that there is indeed a 9 run decryptor, but it has the worst success chance out of all the decryptors, infact the success rate is so bad with that decryptor that only 1 out of 8 attempted jobs will even succeed. It is a very common decryptor, and it's common for a reason, BECAUSE IT'S A PILE OF CRAP!
When it takes 8 attempts to get a success (on average) out of the 9 run decryptor, would you please explain to me what is the point in even using it? You'd be better of doing 8x invention jobs using the 1x run decryptors which result in a higher ME level if doing ships, or, even better, you are best of using the RARE decryptor type, it's the one with a 4 run multiplier but also has the best success rate of all the decryptors, about 50% success chance. Now you'd have to be an idiot to use the 9 run decryptors which fail most of the time if you have the option of using the 4 run decryptor which only fails half of the time.
There is more than 1 max run enhancing decryptor btw, it is YOU who is wrong, seriously, don't try to call me stupid when you are the only clueless one out of the two of us, again, if you could read properly, you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself like this.
Now why don't you shut up, you should pay more attention to your homework (reading comprehension ftw)
LEARN TO READ!
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Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2007.01.09 21:32:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Pilk
Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne ... "Step 2) run some missions and train some skills" train a bit of social and contacts for a better standing, run missions for standing, train frigate to 4 (as a character maximized for research has 1 for starter) and cruiser to 1 to do the missions, train the scentific field to at least 1, start researching with the first decent agent. Spend some million for ships and time doing level 1 missions.
...
Train the skill as high as you can while increasing your standig, so that you will get better agents every time you increase the skill. Level 5 should be more than another month.
While I can't disagree with your point as a whole, wouldn't it be much easier to do the standings stuff with ONE character, and then have your research alts join your mission-*****'s corporation for a few days? Then they can just run off of your mission-*****'s standings for the purposes of acquiring high-level R&D agents.
--P
My corp has 7.40 with minmatar fleet but I can acces only level 2 agents of Republic Fleet. So corporation standing is of no use to get better agents than your personal standing.
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.09 21:47:00 -
[108]
The guide says this about the standings:
Quote: While agents with the mission service only require standing in one category, either faction, corporation or personal, to become available to you, research agents require standing in two of those three categories before they are available to you.
That's a little vague but I'm guessing your corporation standing can count for one of the two pre-req's at least? Or perhaps it means you need both good faction standing and good standing with the corporation in question?
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IndIIy
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:11:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Lady Noir Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:26:33 Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:25:07
Originally by: Mohoi Well again, Lady Noir you where wrong on many fronts. The max run enhancing decrypter has a multiplyer of 9, i.e. modules have a theoretical max run of 90 and Ships of 9!
Your calculations are again way off. Why don't you give us a brake and shut up. You should pay more attention to your homework (math ftw).
You should learn to read, if you could do so, you would have READ me saying that there is indeed a 9 run decryptor, but it has the worst success chance out of all the decryptors, infact the success rate is so bad with that decryptor that only 1 out of 8 attempted jobs will even succeed. It is a very common decryptor, and it's common for a reason, BECAUSE IT'S A PILE OF CRAP!
When it takes 8 attempts to get a success (on average) out of the 9 run decryptor, would you please explain to me what is the point in even using it? You'd be better of doing 8x invention jobs using the 1x run decryptors which result in a higher ME level if doing ships, or, even better, you are best of using the RARE decryptor type, it's the one with a 4 run multiplier but also has the best success rate of all the decryptors, about 50% success chance. Now you'd have to be an idiot to use the 9 run decryptors which fail most of the time if you have the option of using the 4 run decryptor which only fails half of the time.
There is more than 1 max run enhancing decryptor btw, it is YOU who is wrong, seriously, don't try to call me stupid when you are the only clueless one out of the two of us, again, if you could read properly, you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself like this.
Now why don't you shut up, you should pay more attention to your homework (reading comprehension ftw)
LEARN TO READ!
ok cna u tell what is the 4 runs decryptor frome the minimatar? and how many licence runs do u use for each bpc u put in inventions
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Tanis Bastar
Caldari Interstitial Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:11:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Sorela The guide says this about the standings:
Quote: research agents require standing in two of those three categories before they are available to you.
I don't think this is right, despite what the guide and agent info tab say. I just set up a level 4 R&D agent, and as far as I know the only standing requirement that I met was personal standing.
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:21:00 -
[111]
Originally by: IndIIy
Originally by: Lady Noir Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:26:33 Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:25:07
Originally by: Mohoi Well again, Lady Noir you where wrong on many fronts. The max run enhancing decrypter has a multiplyer of 9, i.e. modules have a theoretical max run of 90 and Ships of 9!
Your calculations are again way off. Why don't you give us a brake and shut up. You should pay more attention to your homework (math ftw).
You should learn to read, if you could do so, you would have READ me saying that there is indeed a 9 run decryptor, but it has the worst success chance out of all the decryptors, infact the success rate is so bad with that decryptor that only 1 out of 8 attempted jobs will even succeed. It is a very common decryptor, and it's common for a reason, BECAUSE IT'S A PILE OF CRAP!
When it takes 8 attempts to get a success (on average) out of the 9 run decryptor, would you please explain to me what is the point in even using it? You'd be better of doing 8x invention jobs using the 1x run decryptors which result in a higher ME level if doing ships, or, even better, you are best of using the RARE decryptor type, it's the one with a 4 run multiplier but also has the best success rate of all the decryptors, about 50% success chance. Now you'd have to be an idiot to use the 9 run decryptors which fail most of the time if you have the option of using the 4 run decryptor which only fails half of the time.
There is more than 1 max run enhancing decryptor btw, it is YOU who is wrong, seriously, don't try to call me stupid when you are the only clueless one out of the two of us, again, if you could read properly, you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself like this.
Now why don't you shut up, you should pay more attention to your homework (reading comprehension ftw)
LEARN TO READ!
ok cna u tell what is the 4 runs decryptor frome the minimatar? and how many licence runs do u use for each bpc u put in inventions
Use whatever the maximum runs is for that bpc.
The minmatar 4 run and highest success chance decryptor is called Assembly Instructions.
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IndIIy
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:26:00 -
[112]
Use whatever the maximum runs is for that bpc.
The minmatar 4 run and highest success chance decryptor is called Assembly Instructions.
ty vm now one more question how do i find whats the max runs for a bpc?
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Lady Noir
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:36:00 -
[113]
Originally by: IndIIy
Use whatever the maximum runs is for that bpc.
The minmatar 4 run and highest success chance decryptor is called Assembly Instructions.
ty vm now one more question how do i find whats the max runs for a bpc?
Just try to research it for 9999 runs and it will default to max.
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IndIIy
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:40:00 -
[114]
and to get decryptors i notice that at least for the one frome minimatar u get it frome cosmos plx and it respawns in a specific can if u'r intresed in geting them i'm geting my own decryptors
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Trotski II
Rasta Tropical Club
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Posted - 2007.01.10 03:18:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Tanis Bastar
Originally by: Sorela The guide says this about the standings:
Quote: research agents require standing in two of those three categories before they are available to you.
I don't think this is right, despite what the guide and agent info tab say. I just set up a level 4 R&D agent, and as far as I know the only standing requirement that I met was personal standing.
The thing is this:
To use any agent of a given faction you can take advantage of your faction standing. So if you are a lv4 runner you may have 7 or more faction standing with one empire. This means automatic acess to any agent on that faction.
With research agents it¦s diferent. You can still use the faction standings but the higher level agents still require corporation standings but it will still be easier.
Compare a level 4 research agent standings required with other department and you will see.
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Mohoi
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Posted - 2007.01.10 05:14:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Lady Noir Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:26:33 Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:25:07
Originally by: Mohoi Lady Noir pay more attention to your homework (math ftw).
Blah Blah Blah
Well although I really like ticking you off, where exactly do you get 1 in 8 from? The multiplyer for the 9 run thingy is 0.4.
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Mohoi
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Posted - 2007.01.10 05:14:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Lady Noir Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:26:33 Edited by: Lady Noir on 09/01/2007 21:25:07
Originally by: Mohoi Lady Noir pay more attention to your homework (math ftw).
Blah Blah Blah
Well although I really like ticking you off, where exactly do you get 1 in 8 from? The multiplyer for the 9 run thingy is 0.4.
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Balgus Malignas
Amarr League of Extra-Horny Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.01.10 06:28:00 -
[118]
Where are you guys getting the detailed information on what each decrypter does? All I see is a description.
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Bermag
Point-Zero Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.10 10:15:00 -
[119]
Check out the item database on http://eve.coldfront.net/db
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ProSaturn
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:43:00 -
[120]
As far as getting more RP/day for datacores could you not train the skills "Social" and "Connections" to increase agents quality and standing without running any missions? I am thinking this may allow you to access better agents with mimimal effort and skill training time.
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