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X-Large Shield Extenders

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Matthew Dust Valklear Legionnaires 40	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:02:56 - [1] - Quote Would like to see some X-Large Shield Extenders, putting 2 Large on a battleship is stupid. I can put 2 Large on a Stabber easy. It's literally almost half the HP of a 1600mm plate. It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. #CCPSHIELDS
Valtem Akin Valklear Legionnaires 0	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:09:18 - [2] - Quote Sounds legit
Jebi Vjetar Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out. Ushra'Khan 0	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:11:50 - [3] - Quote Yes this is a good idea. We need them big shield extenders.
Iain Cariaba 1969	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:37:04 - [4] - Quote Matthew Dust wrote: Would like to see some X-Large Shield Extenders, putting 2 Large on a battleship is stupid. I can put 2 Large on a Stabber easy. It's literally almost half the HP of a 1600mm plate. Except a 1600mm plated ship doesn't have a passive armor regen based on its total shield HP, so you cannot really compare shield extenders to armor plates like that. Matthew Dust wrote: It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. Just because it allegedly won't break the game doesn't make it a good idea. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Matthew Dust Valklear Legionnaires 40	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:46:38 - [5] - Quote It's a great idea, passive regen is next to insignificant, not to mention all ships have passive regen to include armor ships. So what's the point of bringing up passive regen as some sort of worthwhile thing?
Ix Method Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 480	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:13:15 - [6] - Quote It might not break the game but it would significantly change it. Regen rates would have to be nerfed into the ground as another interesting distinction between armour and shield sails off into the deep blue... space. And the subsequent mooing to get XL Armour Reppers would give me a headache. Ships are balanced around existing modules, do you think they'll just shove something like this in and hope for the best or rebalance everything all over again for one module? Travelling at the speed of love.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2721	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:19:09 - [7] - Quote Also need 3200mm armor plate. Both of these need to be too big for a battlecruiser to reasonably fit. You know, big enough for a battleship to actually consider that much powergrid a sacrifice. Matthew Dust wrote: It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. More like putting a medium shield extender on a Stabber. But the point remains the same--I can put a medium shield extender on a Rifter just fine, and it's very nearly a waste of a slot on a Stabber. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 239	Posted - 2015.11.18 11:07:48 - [8] - Quote Matthew Dust wrote: Would like to see some X-Large Shield Extenders, putting 2 Large on a battleship is stupid. I can put 2 Large on a Stabber easy. It's literally almost half the HP of a 1600mm plate. It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. #CCPSHIELDS I'm sure the sig bloom those things would have on a BS would be horrendous not to mention the PWG/CPU requirements. I would rather have CCP buff all shield extenders sizes to fit favorably into their propose meant for ship class.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2721	Posted - 2015.11.18 11:52:53 - [9] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: I'm sure the sig bloom those things would have on a BS would be horrendous not to mention the PWG/CPU requirements. I would rather have CCP buff all shield extenders sizes to fit favorably into their propose meant for ship class. Large shield extenders ARE meant for cruisers. You get more hit points at the cost of powergrid and signature radius. It's a trade-off between offense and defense, and the sig radius bloom is just to prevent using them for nano exploits. You can fit a medium shield extender (frigate size) to your cruiser to get less shield hit points, but at a negligible cost to powergrid and sig radius. The medium on a cruiser primarily costs only the slot. Frigates can fit a medium as a trade-off, or a small if they can't spare fitting. Battleships don't get that choice. The only option for battleships is the weak one that costs barely any powergrid or sig radius (relatively speaking). Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Bobb Bobbington The Cult of the Rare Pepes 140	Posted - 2015.11.18 13:50:31 - [10] - Quote Guys, not everything is meant to be equal. Armor plates are designed to be more for buffer, and shields more for active tanking. That's why armor has an extra plate size, but shield boosters have an extra shield booster size. It'd be boring if everything was equal.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1322	Posted - 2015.11.18 14:07:42 - [11] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Guys, not everything is meant to be equal. Armor plates are designed to be more for buffer, and shields more for active tanking. That's why armor has an extra plate size, but shield boosters have an extra shield booster size. It'd be boring if everything was equal. Issue is, there are no dediated BS+ sized bufermods, you're just throwing multiple cruiser sized mods on there (500PG out of 21k...) XL shield boosters compare to large armor reps btw.
Bobb Bobbington The Cult of the Rare Pepes 141	Posted - 2015.11.18 15:49:50 - [12] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Bobb Bobbington wrote: Guys, not everything is meant to be equal. Armor plates are designed to be more for buffer, and shields more for active tanking. That's why armor has an extra plate size, but shield boosters have an extra shield booster size. It'd be boring if everything was equal. Issue is, there are no dediated BS+ sized bufermods, you're just throwing multiple cruiser sized mods on there (500PG out of 21k...) XL shield boosters compare to large armor reps btw. Lol, XL shield boosters in no way compare to large armor reps. Just because they fit the same doesn't mean they are the same. A large armor repairer does 920 hp every 15 seconds with base skills (61.3/second), whereas an XL shield booster does 690 every 5 seconds (138/second). All taken with base stats from evelopedia. So, an XL shield repper does 2.25x the hp/second than a large armor repper, while a 1600mm plate (4800 hp) does 1.83x more than a large shield extender (2625). A little uneven, but as it is they seem pretty balanced to me. Personally, I don't see a need for battleship sized plates. Battleships do need a pass, but people are already complaining about logi OP, and bigger plates would only increase the problem due to more alpha needed to kill them before reps land. You'd also have to go through and balance a ton of other stuff while you're at it.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 279	Posted - 2015.11.18 16:05:36 - [13] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: Bobb Bobbington wrote: Guys, not everything is meant to be equal. Armor plates are designed to be more for buffer, and shields more for active tanking. That's why armor has an extra plate size, but shield boosters have an extra shield booster size. It'd be boring if everything was equal. Issue is, there are no dediated BS+ sized bufermods, you're just throwing multiple cruiser sized mods on there (500PG out of 21k...) XL shield boosters compare to large armor reps btw. Lol, XL shield boosters in no way compare to large armor reps. Just because they fit the same doesn't mean they are the same. A large armor repairer does 920 hp every 15 seconds with base skills (61.3/second), whereas an XL shield booster does 690 every 5 seconds (138/second). All taken with base stats from evelopedia. So, an XL shield repper does 2.25x the hp/second than a large armor repper, while a 1600mm plate (4800 hp) does 1.83x more than a large shield extender (2625). A little uneven, but as it is they seem pretty balanced to me. Personally, I don't see a need for battleship sized plates. Battleships do need a pass, but people are already complaining about logi OP, and bigger plates would only increase the problem due to more alpha needed to kill them before reps land. You'd also have to go through and balance a ton of other stuff while you're at it. Agreed the entire way. Also worth noting: shield reps get the advantage of an optional shield amp mod so your reps get even better. Costs a midslot, yes, but it's something you can't quite duplicate with armor. Again with the differences between armor and shield, with shield you get a relatively easy-to-fit mod that dramatically increases your active tank. You can equip and de-equip it at will because it's a mod. Rigs allow you to decrease the capacitor used when repping, or rep faster. Armor gets no module to equip or de-equip at will to enhance repping. However, this ability is available in a rig, which means you are stuck with that until you destroy the rig for something else. That's a more permanent investment than a simple module. Armor also gets access to a rig that lets you rep faster. And when it comes to ancillaries, shield gets outright capless repping that still works with the shield rep amp, which falls in line with the rig that decreases cap use (as a theme). Armor gets a boost to rep amount but still uses the same cap as a normal repper, keeping in line with it's rig that allows for more potent reps (as a theme). These differences are what makes EvE interesting. It's a good, nuanced system and I don't want that system unbalanced by huge shield buffer mods, as that's armor's territory. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2722	Posted - 2015.11.18 20:25:32 - [14] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Agreed the entire way. Also worth noting: shield reps get the advantage of an optional shield amp mod so your reps get even better. Costs a midslot, yes, but it's something you can't quite duplicate with armor. Shield boost amplifiers are not nearly as useful as people seem to think. When you consider it's using a slot and CPU that could be spent on a hardener, a lot of times it only barely comes out on top in terms of net shield boost amount while not assisting your EHP at all. It's certainly no huge boon to active tanking and sometimes has little use beyond saving capacitor. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
To mare Advanced Technology 426	Posted - 2015.11.18 21:01:37 - [15] - Quote yes the day when we get an x-large armor repairer
Templar Dane Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 347	Posted - 2015.11.18 22:03:24 - [16] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Also need 3200mm armor plate. Both of these need to be too big for a battlecruiser to reasonably fit. You know, big enough for a battleship to actually consider that much powergrid a sacrifice. Matthew Dust wrote: It won't break the game. I'm just saying a Large Shield Extender on a battleship is like putting a small shield extender on a stabber. More like putting a medium shield extender on a Stabber. But the point remains the same--I can put a medium shield extender on a Rifter just fine, and it's very nearly a waste of a slot on a Stabber. Armor battleships would need their grid tweaked in that case, because most fitted battleships are tight on grid even with plates only needing 500ish grid.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1741	Posted - 2015.11.18 23:20:45 - [17] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Agreed the entire way. Also worth noting: shield reps get the advantage of an optional shield amp mod so your reps get even better. Costs a midslot, yes, but it's something you can't quite duplicate with armor. Shield boost amplifiers are not nearly as useful as people seem to think. When you consider it's using a slot and CPU that could be spent on a hardener, a lot of times it only barely comes out on top in terms of net shield boost amount while not assisting your EHP at all. It's certainly no huge boon to active tanking and sometimes has little use beyond saving capacitor. Consider that the only armor alternative is a 2nd rep aside from rigs, costing a low slot, PG and CPU, with a considerably higher comparative cap investment.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2722	Posted - 2015.11.18 23:26:01 - [18] - Quote Templar Dane wrote: Armor battleships would need their grid tweaked in that case, because most fitted battleships are tight on grid even with plates only needing 500ish grid. They're only tight with top-end weapons. Try fitting some Dual Heavies and you'll free up thousands of megawatts. Then you can fit that huge plate, but it comes at a cost. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Ellendras Silver CrashCat Corporation 218	Posted - 2015.11.19 00:17:30 - [19] - Quote Matthew Dust wrote: It's a great idea, passive regen is next to insignificant, not to mention all ships have passive regen to include armor ships. So what's the point of bringing up passive regen as some sort of worthwhile thing? because shield tanked ships have much higher resistances on top of an larger HP + the regen that comes with it, CAN simply make SOME ships too powerful [u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2722	Posted - 2015.11.19 00:26:53 - [20] - Quote Ellendras Silver wrote: because shield tanked ships have much higher resistances That is patently false. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 244	Posted - 2015.11.19 01:07:58 - [21] - Quote ccp will troll you all and the xl extender will be the one for capitals. until then just make due with your capless asb required brining up of difference in implants between shield and armor (shield get stronger reps, armor better buffer)
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 281	Posted - 2015.11.19 02:53:57 - [22] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Shield boost amplifiers are not nearly as useful as people seem to think. When you consider it's using a slot and CPU that could be spent on a hardener, a lot of times it only barely comes out on top in terms of net shield boost amount while not assisting your EHP at all. It's certainly no huge boon to active tanking and sometimes has little use beyond saving capacitor. But they do have a use. I don't shield tank much myself, so I'm no expert, but I'd imagine there's a point where you've already fitted your primary shield hardeners, and any more would be hit by diminishing returns. Then there's a case to be made for the amp. When active tank, your buffer need only last long enough for your rep to cycle. Shields rep at the beginning of the cycle, so no problem there. And shield reppers cycle much faster than armor, so there's that. I don't claim they are a universal "must-have" mod, but they do provide options and have a use that isn't mimicked by armor. Even if all they do is save capacitor, that still goes to the theme with their ancillaries and rigs. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2725	Posted - 2015.11.19 04:01:37 - [23] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: But they do have a use. They definitely have a use. A good example is on a Rattlesnake with a really strong shield tank. You have so many slots you can use for hardeners that your diminishing returns start to get in the way, and you can get significantly more EHP/s with the boost amplifier than without. But I see people using them poorly pretty often--fits with 1-2 hardeners and a boost amplifier are just bad. I will agree that armor doesn't always have the most favorable options for tanking, either active or passive. I can usually get more buffer tank with armor but it's a pretty small difference. The main balance between shields vs armor is that shields repair faster at the cost of lower capacitor efficiency. When you take logi into the mix, the difference is almost as negligible as the difference in buffer hit points. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
bunzing heet Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 11	Posted - 2015.11.19 04:06:04 - [24] - Quote +1 for xl shield extenders me thinks would be GREAT!! Fly safe keep killing And remember I'm watching you !!!!
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 281	Posted - 2015.11.19 13:06:52 - [25] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: But they do have a use. They definitely have a use. A good example is on a Rattlesnake with a really strong shield tank. You have so many slots you can use for hardeners that your diminishing returns start to get in the way, and you can get significantly more EHP/s with the boost amplifier than without. But I see people using them poorly pretty often--fits with 1-2 hardeners and a boost amplifier are just bad. I will agree that armor doesn't always have the most favorable options for tanking, either active or passive. I can usually get more buffer tank with armor but it's a pretty small difference. The main balance between shields vs armor is that shields repair faster at the cost of lower capacitor efficiency. When you take logi into the mix, the difference is almost as negligible as the difference in buffer hit points. Very true. Also, shield tanking benefits by something else that armor is inhibited by. You can put power grid mods in the lows to increase fitting for tank (couple of niche setups I use, are guilty of this). So ironically, some armor ships get better shield tank through that method. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Thron Legacy White Zulu Scorpion Federation 27	Posted - 2015.11.19 18:47:21 - [26] - Quote When will people realize Shield is best for active and Armor best for buffer tank
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 19	Posted - 2015.11.19 19:40:20 - [27] - Quote XL-shield extenders for all ships - against it. I am usially flying ships with huge shield buffer (30k+(plus is top secret)). and the ability to make a 100k pure shield tank is ... makes me high!!!
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1325	Posted - 2015.11.19 19:49:41 - [28] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: Lol, XL shield boosters in no way compare to large armor reps. Just because they fit the same doesn't mean they are the same. A large armor repairer does 920 hp every 15 seconds with base skills (61.3/second), whereas an XL shield booster does 690 every 5 seconds (138/second). All taken with base stats from evelopedia. So, an XL shield repper does 2.25x the hp/second than a large armor repper, while a 1600mm plate (4800 hp) does 1.83x more than a large shield extender (2625). A little uneven, but as it is they seem pretty balanced to me. If you fit both to an otherwise unfitted T1 hull, you'll have roughly 120 ehp/s for 35GJ/s with an LAR II and 190ehp/s for 72GJ/s on a T2 XL-SB. That's a 55% difference. Having your tank located in the lows or mids does make a huge difference, seeing that local tanks make most sense in very small engagements unless we're talking caps, where shieldtanked triage archons are outperforming armortanked ones. While it's easy to use up all lowslots for tank, relying on base damage+drones, doing so on a shieldship robs you all those mids you'd need for tackle and cap booster. As far as practical fits go, they're fairly even. The massive CPU-reqs for XL-boosters tend to get in the way about as often as the PG requirements for dualrep fits. Going to BS, you find mids used with things like MJD, point, sometimes web, 1-2 cap boosters + tank, leaving even a ship like a Mael with invuln+XL-booster unless going for ASB which don't profit off links you should use for classic shieldboosting. Looking at a hyperion, you get LAR+LAAR or 2LAR, 2 eanms, RAH, DCU and a magstab, but full tackle with one or two CBs next to a prop. Before links or pills, that's a 1100dps mael with 630ehp/s tanked, or a 980dps hyperion with 1150ehp/s tanked, both using shortrange faction ammo and web+scram. Anyways, XL-SB fits and 1/2 LAR fits tend to be well comparable. If you got free space for a SBA next to hardeners, we're most likely not talking pvp fits. Tackle, CBs and prop going into midslots just don't allow for shieldtanks to significantly outperform armorfits on subcaps.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2726	Posted - 2015.11.19 22:24:50 - [29] - Quote Thron Legacy wrote: When will people realize Shield is best for active and Armor best for buffer tank It'd be nice if armor actually had more buffer. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 909	Posted - 2015.11.19 23:56:16 - [30] - Quote I don't think that battleships need more buffer but I would agree that the small shield booster needs some love-making to it. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.

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