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[ISS] Breach of Fiduciary Duty, Call For Resignations.

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XirtamVotf Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 07:18:00 - [61] I do beleive that this would fall under military jurisdiction,and military courts. Seeing how that coming into game it was understood that it a PVP oriented game. So none of you public lawyers have anything to say:P
Varheg Xan Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.10 07:39:00 - [62] OP, can I have your shares?
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.10 08:31:00 - [63] Originally by: Murukan Using wikipedia as a base for your arguements is just stupid. That is like calling for the resignation of a politician for something you read in the tabloids. But... that NEVER happens! What's the world coming to. Originally by: Archilies Out of curiosity. Lets say the shareholders voted the count and the other dude out. What would happen and would a vote that was successfull, actually have any impact? [i.e would they have to leave] Forcibly? No. That'd still be their choice. Personally I really don't think that'd be very clever, since the actual outpost managers are different people. Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 10/01/2007 03:09:21 Tbh I doubt that ISS will survive this. At least not with their current business model. It depends on trust and investors. Guess it doesn't matter currently, how competent their leadership is. They have a large chunk of the universe against them and the pro-iss people will think twice, if they invest any new money into ISS at least for the next months. Imho game-over. Even if they'd get some magic help now, they can't force people to trust them, love them, treat them as neutrals. The times of the ISS we know are over. (I think that without being an iss hater. I may be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.) Reviewing the model? Yes, that's definitely on the cards. Whether it'll change or not, remains to be seen. Been a bit pre-occupied the last couple of weeks though :) Originally by: Graalum Letting Lotka Volterra get involved was probably the most idiotic move ever. As soon as LV started shooting IAC is support of ISS, its "neutrality" was void and openly any enemy to most of eve. When someone rolls up, in force, and says 'these guys your're currently fighting, we want some pew pew too' then you'd be a fool to say 'no go home'. I mean, assuming you could actually stop them in the first place (weren't LV and IAC already shooting each other at that point?), and didn't end up in the middle with both sides shooting you.
Chronos VIII Dark Blade Incorporated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.10 09:20:00 - [64] Originally by: Resipsa Loquitor Always fun when laymen quote legalese. It's the reason why I have a job - when lay people mess up thinking they know what they are doing and I help clean it up. Unfortunately, to RP a bit, I'm only licensed to practice in front of the Gallente Federation with their Supreme Court. As well, since either party has not hired me and neither are not my client as well as the fact that there (at this point) appears to be no identified counsel, to proffer advice or opinion at this point may mislead them and cause harm as well as appear to show bias. As an officer of the Court (as all attorneys are), this would be a failing in my professional and ethical responsibilities. Having said that, there probably is a meritorious argument on both sides regarding "failing to protect the interests of shareholders". One may be a financial interest, in which there may be a lost of share income as well as share value, which will have to be proven. Another is the actions of ISS in both stages of the conflict so far as well as the history of dealings with the engaged parties, if any. Please feel free to contact my office if either party wishes to explore retaining me as local counsel in the Gallente Federation. I am sure that our liberal interpretation of extraterritorial events and impact upon Gallente Federation citizens may warrant investigation into personal and subject matter jurisdiction as well as venue. Resipsa Loquitor, Esq. "If you're going to hire counsel, why not hire the most evil counsel available. What could be more evil than a BoB attorney???" You are definitely not the only one out there, you gallentean scum! As for me, im the 276th Chief Justice of the Amarr Empire, nominated by the Emperor himself. Hail the Emperor
Clementina Eye of God	Posted - 2007.01.10 09:52:00 - [65] Originally by: Manas Hey, I bet the OP could go the route of suing the new Outpost owners for property damage, too. I am sure wiki has a link for it. There is! lookie! However there might be more luck in suing the corporations that make up an outpost. They're usually incorporated in one of the empires, and would, theoretically be liable according to the laws of their jurisdiction. Supposing, of course they did anything wrong.
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 09:55:00 - [66] I own a large amount of shares in various ISS investments (including the Count T action figure) and I'm happy with them so far _
velana The Syndicate Inc Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.10 12:06:00 - [67] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Graalum Letting Lotka Volterra get involved was probably the most idiotic move ever. As soon as LV started shooting IAC is support of ISS, its "neutrality" was void and openly any enemy to most of eve. When someone rolls up, in force, and says 'these guys your're currently fighting, we want some pew pew too' then you'd be a fool to say 'no go home'. I mean, assuming you could actually stop them in the first place (weren't LV and IAC already shooting each other at that point?), and didn't end up in the middle with both sides shooting you. Doesn't really matter the moment someone else than mercs joined your war. you lost the illusion of neutrality. Added to that that you are the caretaker of an outpost in LV space. and the people will see your actions as picking sides. This is in my opinion where you lost neutrality. or at least the appearance.
DeckardIRL Gallente Bravehearts Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 12:35:00 - [68] This war started over 6 months ago when ISS NAP'd CDC (who were enemies to both ISS and IAC at the time) and CDC were able to attack IAC from Marginnis. That was when IAC was not long in Catch and trying to get established having just deployed the Distillery. ISS then changed their charter so this couldn't happen again. But now this latest conflict. ISS then bungled it again by bringing in MC and thinking they would get a quick win. IAC held firm and totally turned it around. Count T made 2 public statements which Tyrrax rebuffed. The Count played politics the whole way instead of addressing IAC directly. ISS are now in trouble. However, remember IAC are not a conquering alliance and its now D2 and LV that are the real threat to ISS and with that its bye bye ISS- unless they can afford to employ BoB and that cost not even ISS can pay. Deck _____________________________________________ Watchin' the Game.... Havin' a Bud.... I shoot better on Bud..... Eve Info- All you need to know
Porter Hadlend Gallente Righteous-Indignation Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 12:59:00 - [69] Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Thems the breaks unfortunately... Man.. I'm glad I took a little time to think about investing in the new ISS IPO. Be Chaotic Neutral
Algey ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.10 13:35:00 - [70] Originally by: Porter Hadlend Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Thems the breaks unfortunately... Man.. I'm glad I took a little time to think about investing in the new ISS IPO.

Resipsa Loquitor Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:53:00 - [71] Originally by: Dirtball Originally by: Resipsa Loquitor "Trust me - I'm a lawyer." You need to add something about graduating from the Ken Lay School outpost down in delve and how you know how to get around corporate laws. Say stuff like "If I cant get you off the hook we can fake your death". (does best impression of Sam Kenison from "Back to School") "All right. Good. I like the way you think. I'm going to keep my eye on you." (/Sam) I believe that station's name is "The Ken Lay School of Economics". Quite a fine institution I've heard. --- Resipsa Loquitor, Esq. - Visiting professor teaching "Ethics and business - why the two don't mix" at The Ken Lay School of Economics, Delve branch.
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:01:00 - [72] Originally by: Porter Hadlend Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Thems the breaks unfortunately... Man.. I'm glad I took a little time to think about investing in the new ISS IPO. Well Titan, that ISK is actually safe from this though the present conflcit indeed raises questions concerning how well it will be managed. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Kalmanaka The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:06:00 - [73] How does one's ability to fight determine one's skill in managing and making money?
Shiftless	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:10:00 - [74] Originally by: Gord Freeman And that accusation won't deflect attention from this monumental failure of ISS leadership. Not to sound like too much of an idiot, but when did Seleen join ISS?
Porter Hadlend Gallente Righteous-Indignation Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:18:00 - [75] Originally by: Baun Originally by: Porter Hadlend Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Thems the breaks unfortunately... Man.. I'm glad I took a little time to think about investing in the new ISS IPO. Well Titan, that ISK is actually safe from this though the present conflcit indeed raises questions concerning how well it will be managed. True enough. BTW.. why aren't you around more ;) Be Chaotic Neutral
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:44:00 - [76] Originally by: DeckardIRL This war started over 6 months ago when ISS NAP'd CDC (who were enemies to both ISS and IAC at the time) and CDC were able to attack IAC from Marginnis. That was when IAC was not long in Catch and trying to get established having just deployed the Distillery. ISS then changed their charter so this couldn't happen again. But now this latest conflict. ISS then bungled it again by bringing in MC and thinking they would get a quick win. IAC held firm and totally turned it around. Count T made 2 public statements which Tyrrax rebuffed. The Count played politics the whole way instead of addressing IAC directly. ISS are now in trouble. However, remember IAC are not a conquering alliance and its now D2 and LV that are the real threat to ISS and with that its bye bye ISS- unless they can afford to employ BoB and that cost not even ISS can pay. Deck Actually CDC NAPped IAC at the same time. That was part of the deal. Didn't last long though, unfortunately. I'm sure someone will be quick to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm _fairly_ sure it was IAC that re-opened hostilities at that point.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:46:00 - [77] Originally by: velana Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: Graalum Letting Lotka Volterra get involved was probably the most idiotic move ever. As soon as LV started shooting IAC is support of ISS, its "neutrality" was void and openly any enemy to most of eve. When someone rolls up, in force, and says 'these guys your're currently fighting, we want some pew pew too' then you'd be a fool to say 'no go home'. I mean, assuming you could actually stop them in the first place (weren't LV and IAC already shooting each other at that point?), and didn't end up in the middle with both sides shooting you. Doesn't really matter the moment someone else than mercs joined your war. you lost the illusion of neutrality. Added to that that you are the caretaker of an outpost in LV space. and the people will see your actions as picking sides. This is in my opinion where you lost neutrality. or at least the appearance. If you get mugged in the street, it's not politics when the guy in the shop comes out with a baseball bat to assist. I can't change people's perceptions, but I do still think they're incorrect in this situation.
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:59:00 - [78] Originally by: James Lyrus Originally by: DeckardIRL This war started over 6 months ago when ISS NAP'd CDC (who were enemies to both ISS and IAC at the time) and CDC were able to attack IAC from Marginnis. That was when IAC was not long in Catch and trying to get established having just deployed the Distillery. ISS then changed their charter so this couldn't happen again. But now this latest conflict. ISS then bungled it again by bringing in MC and thinking they would get a quick win. IAC held firm and totally turned it around. Count T made 2 public statements which Tyrrax rebuffed. The Count played politics the whole way instead of addressing IAC directly. ISS are now in trouble. However, remember IAC are not a conquering alliance and its now D2 and LV that are the real threat to ISS and with that its bye bye ISS- unless they can afford to employ BoB and that cost not even ISS can pay. Deck Actually CDC NAPped IAC at the same time. That was part of the deal. Didn't last long though, unfortunately. I'm sure someone will be quick to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm _fairly_ sure it was IAC that re-opened hostilities at that point. From then-CDC member Tyrian Solteuer Posted - 2006.12.11 19:23:00: Originally by: Tyrian Solteuer Just to set the record straight on the CC/CDC conflict with ISS and IAC... We deployed 6 dreads into ZXIC, bottled up the system, put enough ISS starbases into reinforced mode and put up enough of our own to challenge the sovereignty of the system. IAC actually lost more ships than ISS during this siege while they tried to cut us off from our lines of supply. Once this was done we entered into negotiations with the Count, reached an accord, which had absolutely nothing to do with money, access, offices, resources or use of space...we then packed up our forces and withdrew. At the time of the negotiations Count Tessasine was gracious enough to require that we speak to IAC about a NAP at the same time. He actually insisted on a join NAP but we felt that it would set a bad precedent to deal with both groups as a unit....however, I heard what IAC had to say, struck a temporary cease fire, and promised to meet up again in a week to discuss a longer term agreement. Unfortunately IAC forces violated the accord twice over the next few days as our forces withdrew. We came to the conclusion that a long term peace with IAC was not in our interest. In the end ISS held up their end of the deal and IAC greased 2 of our battleships under a flag of truce. Nuff said. I have always found that ISS have stuck to their word when it comes to their charter and the actions of their membership. Every incident that I have ever had with ISS has always been resolved quickly and in good spirits. Its quite clear that after we departed the area, the IAC have gotten quite bored and full of themselves, and are now simply looking for something else nearby to shoot at. important portion bolded http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=441626&page=10#283
Pakmule Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:08:00 - [79] You'll excuse me if I just ignore comments made by an alt quoting an enemy...
Mortin Skeer Multiplay UK	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:11:00 - [80] Originally by: Kalmanaka How does one's ability to fight determine one's skill in managing and making money? Going off current events? Quite a lot it seems... :P

Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:43:00 - [81] I remember when ISS came into being well over a year ago. When I first heard about it, I thought to myself that they would immediatly fail and that they had no hope for success. What they accomplished over that time exceeded all my expectations. When someone engineers a big scam we all glamorize it and talk about it constantly. ISS's Executive team had hundreds of billions under their thumb and thus far managed all that isk with honor and integrity. For that I tip my hat to them. It truly is rare to find someone in EvE who does not have a 'magic' number at which they would abandon everyone and run off with all the assets. I do not know why IAC declared war on them, and I don't know why everyone else jumped on the bandwagon. Regardless ISS proved me wrong, and I sincerely hope they learn from this setback and move on. EvE people needs people like them.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.10 19:01:00 - [82] Originally by: Graalum Letting Lotka Volterra get involved was probably the most idiotic move ever. As soon as LV started shooting IAC is support of ISS, its "neutrality" was void and openly any enemy to most of eve. When someone rolls up, in force, and says 'these guys your're currently fighting, we want some pew pew too' then you'd be a fool to say 'no go home'. I mean, assuming you could actually stop them in the first place (weren't LV and IAC already shooting each other at that point?), and didn't end up in the middle with both sides shooting you. The thing was, you could have and should have told LV to go home, you let them play politics with you and it was your undoing. Fix and MC and whatever assorted hired guns you had were more than enough to make sure that you would not loose marginis, assuming that an attempt would be made to take it. When you let LV in, and arrogantly posted pics of Enslavers e-peen in the midst of a swarm of dreads pummeling an IAC pos, there is no way you could not know that RA, Goon, TCF, and everyone else would be after you.
darkfuntime Minmatar ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.10 20:16:00 - [83] I will buy any and all ISS shares for 1 mil isk a share.At least you will get something back for them,contact me in game
Baymm Shadow Gypsies R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.10 20:30:00 - [84] Originally by: Resipsa Loquitor Originally by: Gord Freeman After having failed to protect the interests of their shareholders, and effectively loosing untold billions of Isk because of their gross negligence in providing the highest possible standard of care for the assetts entrusted to them - I call on Count TaSessine and Serenity Steele to resign from their positions immediately. Furthermore, the head of the ISS Navy must be removed and replaced with a competent military commander. A temporary new management team must be installed and a full audit of all ISS financial records must occur immediately if there is to be any degree of trust or market confidence in their ISS leadership moving forward. For the sake of the newborn Eve public stock market, and shareholders across the galaxy - the leadership of ISS must be held accountable for this unacceptable lack of care. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary_duty Thoughts? Always fun when laymen quote legalese. It's the reason why I have a job - when lay people mess up thinking they know what they are doing and I help clean it up. Unfortunately, to RP a bit, I'm only licensed to practice in front of the Gallente Federation with their Supreme Court. As well, since either party has not hired me and neither are not my client as well as the fact that there (at this point) appears to be no identified counsel, to proffer advice or opinion at this point may mislead them and cause harm as well as appear to show bias. As an officer of the Court (as all attorneys are), this would be a failing in my professional and ethical responsibilities. Having said that, there probably is a meritorious argument on both sides regarding "failing to protect the interests of shareholders". One may be a financial interest, in which there may be a lost of share income as well as share value, which will have to be proven. Another is the actions of ISS in both stages of the conflict so far as well as the history of dealings with the engaged parties, if any. Please feel free to contact my office if either party wishes to explore retaining me as local counsel in the Gallente Federation. I am sure that our liberal interpretation of extraterritorial events and impact upon Gallente Federation citizens may warrant investigation into personal and subject matter jurisdiction as well as venue. Resipsa Loquitor, Esq. "If you're going to hire counsel, why not hire the most evil counsel available. What could be more evil than a BoB attorney???" Nice post. Lots of truth in it as well. 8) BTW, loquitur not loquitor. Give me a tell in game, would love to know where you practice and what field. Baymm Shadow Gypsies Rise
Resipsa Loquitor Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.10 20:57:00 - [85] Originally by: Baymm BTW, loquitur not loquitor. Give me a tell in game, would love to know where you practice and what field. Yeah, misspelled it on purpose to avoid a conflict with another name at the time. Feel free to drop me an eve-m. As for the Amarr "Chief Justice", I think he'll find a problem with a little thing called "conflict of interest". How can he independently preside over a conflict he has a vested interest in as a full-fledged member and pod pilot in IAC? He can't. Now he can act as counsel for his party so long as he isn't a material witness or a liable actor in the case, which he may be. He will, however, under normal ethical standards of law, have to recuse himself from his ministerial roles with the Amarr "judiciary" during the term of the legal proceedings. Of course, using the term "normal standard" and Amarr in the same sentence gives even the most free-wheeling of counsel a wry smirk. We all know the Amarr have their own methods of administering "justice" - maybe this slight ethical conflict issue isn't really a problem for them. --- Resipsa Loquitor, Esq. - Visiting professor teaching "Ethics and business - why the two don't mix" at The Ken Lay School of Economics, Delve branch.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.10 21:19:00 - [86] I am not usually comfortable speaking on behalf of the entire ISS but I am 100% assured in my capability to do so in this thread. The skills that the ISS management team bring to the organisation are not generic or interchangeable. There is not a single member of the organisation who could be adequately replaced. This team includes the people you have demanded resignations from: chairman Count TaSessine, military director Algey and finance director Serenity Steele. They are not jobs, they are people. Nobody could be a better Count TaSessine than the man himself, nobody a better Serenity Steele than Serenity Steele and while the head of ISSN is an interchangable role, Algey is anything but incompetant. In addition, destroying our internal structure and spending all of our time for a few weeks digging up financial accounts from corp wallets will not help this situation one bit. It will, in fact, ruin the ability of our alliance to adequately address the current situation. Our time and effort is better spent dealing with situations than running away from them by resigning. Instead of destroying our entire management structure to appease one shareholder, we'll go ahead with our current plans to discuss how we'll proceed internally with our more than capable management team. We will hold a shareholder meeting (announcement should be out in the market order forum shortly) to detail the future plans we have and discuss the state of all current IPOs. I know eve has a semi-realistic economic model but not everything to do with real life business is applicable to eve. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.


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