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Lester Mako	Posted - 2003.12.02 17:36:00 - [1] I've been hearing that soon you won't be able to make a bookmark near a gate and that your in-system warps will place you even further away from gates. This is a game killer for me. This change will increase player's dependence on MWD and cute gate attacks. Another item on Chaos is that it will take 30 seconds for a Battleship to lock a frigate. What kinda crap is this? This is nonsense. Whats our goal gonna be, whomever sells the most power diagnostics wins? Soon it will be impossible to defend yourself or seek revenge on asshats. Only those players spending hours looking for exploits will be enabled to have any type of PvP action. Miner, Seller of Minerals, Father
TheFatman	Posted - 2003.12.02 17:47:00 - [2] This was talked about a long time ago, the insta jump bookmarking that is, I hope they do it. It is much to easy to escape in the game as it is, taking away insta jump bookmarks should enhance PvP not detract from it. The only thing I would hope is that taking away the gate bookmarks isn't done before the Player owned ore refineries are put in.
Raven DeBlade	Posted - 2003.12.02 17:50:00 - [3] I Like that they will remove the insta jump BMs, but i really dont like the "hard to target" on smaller ships, there is no logic at all in that. "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" "Any statements made above this line are my persona"
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.12.02 17:51:00 - [4] "It is much to easy to escape in the game as it is, taking away insta jump bookmarks should enhance PvP not detract from it." This is a game killer, making one of the worst parts of the game (travel) even worse. Bad idea... "Trust No One"
SUNscatcher	Posted - 2003.12.02 17:59:00 - [5] LOL yes removing the ability to set bookmarks so instant jump is possible would provide easier targets for gatecampers. And also provide players with another reason it's not all that profitable to head out into 0.0 space based upon the increased travel time alone. I'm glad that this is just a rumor being recirculated for no good reason by some griefers who are bored and feel the need to stir the "lets cause trouble" pot. If you can catch me you can have me.
TheFatman	Posted - 2003.12.02 17:59:00 - [6] People will have to adapt their loadouts or how far they are willing to travel for buisness. It might actually help improve the market, by effecting travel times, not as big a nerf to "going anywhere" as getting rid of the super highways, but might make the Eve Universe a little "bigger" again. I do believe they need to introduce ore refineries before they do the bookmark nerf, but thats just my opinion.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.12.02 18:02:00 - [7] instead of just freaking out to rumours, read the threads where these changes are being detailed, and discussed. Patch review would be a good start. .
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.12.02 18:03:00 - [8] Quote: I'm glad that this is just a rumor being recirculated for no good reason by some griefers who are bored and feel the need to stir the "lets cause trouble" pot. it's not a rumour. The only rumour here is that it's a rumour. It's true, and it's coming. .
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2003.12.02 18:09:00 - [9] Quote: instead of just freaking out to rumours, read the threads where these changes are being detailed, and discussed. Patch review would be a good start. well you beat me to it. And people do have skills and modules to minimize the locking time. __________ Capacitor research
Koda	Posted - 2003.12.02 18:55:00 - [10] Edited by: Koda on 02/12/2003 18:55:54 So when this does come in Kestrals become the most important ship in the game. By the time the BS locks, 8 cruise missles will be in the air. -------------- Share the love in the SNIGG Forums

Negotiator	Posted - 2003.12.02 18:59:00 - [11] sweet, great changes.
ZzeusS	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:09:00 - [12] [quote it's not a rumour. The only rumour here is that it's a rumour. It's true, and it's coming. /arnold "It's not a rumor!"
Eneroth	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:11:00 - [13] Quote: I Like that they will remove the insta jump BMs, but i really dont like the "hard to target" on smaller ships, there is no logic at all in that. Yeah that sucks. ppl will probably transport bp in frigs and once u got a lock on them they have already jumped. All in have to say to ccp is eat my shorts if u gonna screw pvp and stuff like that. Does ccp actually read on the forums or do they only look at the amount of players paying for this game? But i really think that those instajumps will go away. Since many ppl use em and the only way to get those punks is to camp at jip. -Any fool can pull a trigger.-
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:12:00 - [14] Why not be more creative? Why not force the pirates to equip warp disrupters, allowing them to pull 1 ship out of warp 50k from the gate no matter if the person is using a BM or not. Why punish everyone with longer travel times, at every gate in the game? Why give this to the pirates, why not make them work for it? It's just a silly way to go about this whole situation. I think it would be more fun an interesting if these issues were settled with more skills & modules, and not these blatant accross the board nerfs all the time. It's just another instance of CCP taking the easy way out... "Trust No One"
Visionary	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:15:00 - [15] Quote: So when this does come in Kestrals become the most important ship in the game. By the time the BS locks, 8 cruise missles will be in the air ROFL... but the next 8 missile will never be launched --------------- "just my 2 isk"
Uuldahan	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:30:00 - [16] niiice, great changes
Cortex Reaver	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:45:00 - [17] Edited by: Cortex Reaver on 02/12/2003 19:48:52 Quote: This is nonsense. Why is CCP trying to turn this game into "Poppa Smurf versus Barney"? Whats our goal gonna be, whomever sells the most power diagnostics wins? Soon it will be impossible to defend yourself or seek revenge on asshats. Only those players spending hours looking for exploits will be enabled to have any type of PvP action. Amen! -CR /* Cortex Reaver crtxreavr at trioptimum dot com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 */
Mr nStuff	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:45:00 - [18] Yup.. You would need affordable Mobile Ore Refineries before implementing this.. No one is going to do 30 jump Bistot hauling Ops w/o insta-jump bookmarks.. No matter what the five of you are doing in PF-3 Ore Hauling Ops: Insta-Jump bookmarks = 15 minutes one way. No Insta-Jumps = 1h 15 minutes one way.. Do the math.. Why not give the Gate Campers a device that only works while they are close to it.. This device forces ships out of warp early.. Like a warp disruption bubble. Then the gate campers don't have to cry about insta-jump users, and the insta-jump users don't have to cry about 3 hour long ore hauling routes. Disruption bubbles could even be used to bring someone out of warp in the middle of no where.. Pretty scary technology. It promotes war, it promotes mining, it promotes camping. Everyone is happy. 5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers.. Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer. My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period. Expires on 19. September 2004
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:50:00 - [19] Quote: Edited by: Koda on 02/12/2003 18:55:54 So when this does come in Kestrals become the most important ship in the game. By the time the BS locks, 8 cruise missles will be in the air. 8 Cruise missiles will barely take my bship to half shields. Which will be repaired shortly thereafter. Which is assuming my m12 defender launcher allows 8 cruise missiles to hit me. Which is where I ask: Now what's the Kestrel going to do about the incoming 3 cruise missiles and squad of angry drones? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
SUNscatcher	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:50:00 - [20] Edited by: SUNscatcher on 02/12/2003 19:53:26 If you can catch me you can have me.

SUNscatcher	Posted - 2003.12.02 19:51:00 - [21] Well it better be just a rumor cause its a stupid idea. Soooo tired of listening to the PK's whine about not having someone to shoot at. Talk about carebears. If you can catch me you can have me.
Koda	Posted - 2003.12.02 20:16:00 - [22] Quote: Now what's the Kestrel going to do about the incoming 3 cruise missiles and squad of angry drones? Die probably, but if the pilot has half a brain he's got 4 or 5 mates doing the same thing. A solo BS pilot could find himself in trouble if a group showed up and managed to warp jam him. -------------- Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
var'ulfur	Posted - 2003.12.02 20:21:00 - [23] um sorry to bust your parade but the less signature a ship has the harder it is to find. thats the way it is in real life and in this game if you want it to be lifelike. take the f117 i think its number is it has the sigature of a bumbel bee on radar screens. so a friget a ship that is made small and has a very small signture will be very hard to target. you people cry and stomp your hankies that the game is not real enought. well welcome to the real world fokes get use to it wolf
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.02 20:23:00 - [24] Quote: Quote: Now what's the Kestrel going to do about the incoming 3 cruise missiles and squad of angry drones? Die probably, but if the pilot has half a brain he's got 4 or 5 mates doing the same thing. A solo BS pilot could find himself in trouble if a group showed up and managed to warp jam him. 5 vs 1 odds, I don't expect to win. I will fight to the best of my ability. And if they make a single mistake, I will escape. But it's not a fight I expect to win. Then again, what about my buddies? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Koda	Posted - 2003.12.02 20:27:00 - [25] Edited by: Koda on 02/12/2003 20:34:42 Quote: 5 vs 1 odds, I don't expect to win. I will fight to the best of my ability. And if they make a single mistake, I will escape. But it's not a fight I expect to win. Then again, what about my buddies? If Merc frigates taught us anything, when the pilot has little at risk (implants notwithstanding) they will behave more recklessly. Combined with this boost against BS's, I think people people may give this play style a try. It's not going to reinvent the Pvp wheel, but it will have an impact. Now if they could fix the lag and get rid of the @#$*ing invulnerability timer... -------------- Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.02 20:56:00 - [26] Quote: Edited by: Koda on 02/12/2003 20:34:42 Quote: 5 vs 1 odds, I don't expect to win. I will fight to the best of my ability. And if they make a single mistake, I will escape. But it's not a fight I expect to win. Then again, what about my buddies? If Merc frigates taught us anything, when the pilot has little at risk (implants notwithstanding) they will behave more recklessly. Combined with this boost against BS's, I think people people may give this play style a try. It's not going to reinvent the Pvp wheel, but it will have an impact. Now if they could fix the lag and get rid of the @#$ing invulnerability timer... Quote:* Skills & Modules: sorry but they are still broken, I'll update them tomorrow Invulnerability Time: changes coming very soon JIP: we have a testable version of a fix for jump point camping, this will enter Chaos very soon Drones: drones will most likely soon be given accuracy Frigates: new frigates entering game play, much sturdier frigates up to cruiser class strenght Missiles (FOF problem): smartbombs will get boost to tackle missiles I will post changes here later, sorry if I'm not detailed enough, but there are lots of changes going on and they need alot of focus/work. TomB in the forest fire concerning the changes to lock timers in Ships & Modules I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.02 21:05:00 - [27] Jump In Changes directly from a Developer I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.02 22:17:00 - [28] Quote: Quote: Jump In Changes directly from a Developer Perhaps my planetside hiatus has made me dim... do you have an equivalent link quoting CCP on the removal of quick-jump bookmarks? That'd require digging through the CSM logs I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Drutort	Posted - 2003.12.02 23:22:00 - [29] Quote: Quote: instead of just freaking out to rumours, read the threads where these changes are being detailed, and discussed. Patch review would be a good start. well you beat me to it. And people do have skills and modules to minimize the locking time. ya even with my maxed out skill at lvl5 isnt going to help unless they give us another skill for say a BS/BB that would let us target faster smaller ships support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
SUNscatcher	Posted - 2003.12.02 23:25:00 - [30] did I miss read Chandra or did she not say she thought bookmarks will work as before? If so then where has it been written that this aspect of the game is definitely going to be nerfed? If you can catch me you can have me.

Fetty Chico	Posted - 2003.12.02 23:40:00 - [31] boo hoo Battleships wont be the only thing to fly if you want people to die boo hoo ya breakin me heart ------------------------------------------------ Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly - the ill deeds, along with the good - and let me be judged accordingly. If this world was supposed to be friendly CCP wouldnt have wasted time paying the devs to code so many weapons
LiverpoolFC	Posted - 2003.12.03 00:01:00 - [32] Guess my looted sensor boosters will come in handy with the new targeting rules, may even be able to sell the spare ones for a good price. They change the game we got to adapt. The pirates been doing it well since day 1. Maybe its time the the BS miners (like me) had to rethink weapons/device load outs. All on-line games change as the game and players evolve. Assumptions made by the devs in the early stages of development are proved wrong by the players, the devs have to counteract that in order to maintain the balance. Hell there are lots of things I think are wrong with this game, but others will disagree with me. Its all a matter of opinion. Many of us agree that there is so much right with the game and are willing to see how things develope. If people didn't give a **** these forums would be empty. Lets see how the new patch works out and adapt to the changes. You may even like them and even if you don't you can always cancel you account and move on. We all have that right.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.12.03 00:16:00 - [33] here at SPVD HQ, we've done pretty well adapting to the changes so far. I never expected Eve to stand still. I also never expected to see such huge changes coming together all in one go like this. I can only hope it goes smoothly. .
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.12.03 00:18:00 - [34] "here at SPVD HQ, we've done pretty well adapting to the changes so far." Yeah, I gotta hand it to exploiters, they are always ahead of the curve... "Trust No One"
Negotiator	Posted - 2003.12.03 05:49:00 - [35] lol...30 seconds to lock and 15 seconds to reload the launchers with FOF missles and let them rip... no probs there
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.12.03 05:56:00 - [36] Edited by: Jash Illian on 03/12/2003 05:58:43 Quote: boo hoo Battleships wont be the only thing to fly if you want people to die boo hoo ya breakin me heart Fetty, you're a semi-respectable guy . I went over to Chaos and tried locking a Badger with a Vigil. Not scrambling/webifying. Just locking. Chaos has a function that allows you to mark anyone in targetting range in your threat window. So the second they appeared in the system, I could try locking via the threat window. With a 1.43s lock time I failed every time (was a specific test of a module). I won't mention that I was out of web/scramble range 3-4 times due to the random location on the jumpin. And Overall the changes are okay. But atm, they're in dire need of some tweaking else even you'll be outta work. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2003.12.03 06:51:00 - [37] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 03/12/2003 06:52:16 Drutort That's not a bad idea imo. Kind of a BS designed to kill frigates, it should ofcourse be vulnerable to BS. __________ Capacitor research
Pann	Posted - 2003.12.03 06:52:00 - [38] Removed flames and OT posts. Please keep it civil and On Topic or we'll have to shut 'er down. Thanks. Eve Community Manager [email protected] CCP
Slithereen	Posted - 2003.12.03 07:12:00 - [39] Once again, its damned if you do, damned if you don't. The changes---making your locking time dependent on ship radius---came about from complaints about EVE being over-battleshipped and frigates being renegated to sheer uselessness and a mark of noobiedom. So yeah, I think its a good idea, but it needs some tweaking. If you like to make changes to the game, at least give realistic, real world justifiable reasons to do so. It would be much more acceptable. ECM having a real range and fall off---that's real and acceptable. Locking time dependent on ship's radius, that is acceptable. Military aviation terms call this radar cross section, and the smaller your radar cross section is, the greater is your inherent "stealth" against radar. Frigates and small things, naturally, should be much harder to both detect and lock on than big ships. The game should orient PvP back to the low end---frigates and cruisers. PvP with battleships are far too expensive to be maintainable in the long run and acceptable for the players, when the costs of replacement is exorbitant. CCP is in the right track but this needs some fine tuning. If you find the length of locking time to be a bit excessive, file a report. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Miso	Posted - 2003.12.03 08:59:00 - [40] Edited by: Miso on 03/12/2003 09:00:11 I love these sorts of threads, guaranteed to bring out all the kiddies and criers. Whatever is done, its wrong. Can't you guys just adapt? -------------------------------------------- Dead

Intensity Green	Posted - 2003.12.03 09:17:00 - [41] PvP will change. For some that's guaranteed to be a bad thing. I however, think this a way to try and fix pvp. Just because the big badass PvP'ers from beta can't jip camp frigates with their bs's anymore we shouldn't all cry a river.
Artean	Posted - 2003.12.03 11:07:00 - [42] Do like the changes in principle. Though, they are in need of some tweeking etc, but TomB is pretty aware of that. Ive never seen a new change bring such a flood of grumble. Tough, as long as TomB keeps his choosen path, it dosent bother me. New will come, old will fall. Adapt. For the game in generall, I do think these changes are just whats needed. Players will in an earlier stage in their EVE career be usefull in PvP, and thereby willing to participate. PvP should be available for all, without weeks/months of mining, and not considered as a luxury.
Indira Firebrand	Posted - 2003.12.03 11:17:00 - [43] Quote: I Like that they will remove the insta jump BMs, but i really dont like the "hard to target" on smaller ships, there is no logic at all in that. no Logic? It will ALWAYS take a BS with 6+ heavy guns that need to be brought to bear ,MUCH longer to target a tiny little, fast flying frigate then it will take the frigate with its 2 to 3 weeny pea shooters to target a huge, really slow BS that fills half the screen. You have to actually USE logic to recognise logic.
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.12.03 11:51:00 - [44] "Just because the big badass PvP'ers from beta can't jip camp frigates with their bs's anymore we shouldn't all cry a river" DAMN STRAIGHT! "Trust No One"
Hatsim	Posted - 2003.12.05 19:01:00 - [45] lol


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