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change the blackbird and the scorpion they are useless now

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Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.10 14:49:00 - [1] since you very kindly nerfed ecm beyond all recognition the blackbird and the scorpion are basically useless - even with their modifiers for ecm they are still rubbish at it - unless your some v experienced player pvp ecm usage is pretty limited, I suggest changing the stats / bonuses on both the blackbird and the scorpion so that they might yet have a role / use because as it stands caldair now have only 3 useful cruisers (as opposed to 4 with other races) and 2 bs (as opposed to 3 for other races) id be interested in other ppls opinions about this - im not flaming i just think the nerf on ecm has adversely affected caldari players more than any other race - will this be balanced at some point? Moved from General Discussion - Devil ([email protected]) ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.10 14:51:00 - [2] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/01/2007 14:54:02 Oh no, you can only permajam three ships at once instead of five. I feel so sorry for you. P.S. Tried the lowslot mods and rigs? You can nearly get the same strength as before... not all the way, but pretty close. I can see a rigged EW scorpion being very scary. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 14:55:00 - [3] My T1 fit blackbirds can still swing a fight in my sides favor, the permajam is no more - granted, but a reasonalble % of jams on an enemy gang's main damage dealers is not to be overlooked. -----
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:02:00 - [4] Originally by: Xsag since you very kindly nerfed ecm beyond all recognition the blackbird and the scorpion are basically useless - even with their modifiers for ecm they are still rubbish at it - unless your some v experienced player pvp ecm usage is pretty limited, I suggest changing the stats / bonuses on both the blackbird and the scorpion so that they might yet have a role / use because as it stands caldair now have only 3 useful cruisers (as opposed to 4 with other races) and 2 bs (as opposed to 3 for other races) id be interested in other ppls opinions about this - im not flaming i just think the nerf on ecm has adversely affected caldari players more than any other race - will this be balanced at some point? Moved from General Discussion - Devil ([email protected]) You're just not using it correctly. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Zixxa	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:05:00 - [5] Forget about ECM. Caldari scums do not deserve good PvP ships. Once formidable Scorpion, primary, now is less than small nuisance. BB is even more useless. All Caldari ECM ships cannot jam, cannot tank and cannot damage. With rigs or without. With or without low slots lost for jam powering. Tux, if you was so wise to render useless whole device class(ECM), please, make next step and remove from the game all ships based on this device class(ECM). --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Zixxa Forget about ECM. Caldari scums do not deserve good PvP ships. Once formidable Scorpion, primary, now is less than small nuisance. BB is even more useless. All Caldari ECM ships cannot jam, cannot tank and cannot damage. With rigs or without. With or without low slots lost for jam powering. Tux, if you was so wise to render useless whole device class(ECM), please, make next step and remove from the game all ships based on this device class(ECM). Caldari pilots (like Zixxa here) are probably the dumbest pilots in Eve. It seems that all they can do is hit F1-F8. Even rock biters (sorry Chribba ) are able to do something slightly more complicated than push a few buttons. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Bronson Hughes Caldari Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:10:00 - [7] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 10/01/2007 15:08:16 The Blackbird is one of the best small gang PvP ships available and I also think one of the most underestimated. Aside from the ECM bonuses, it's got 6 mid-slots, the most of any T1 cruiser. The Caracal and the Celestis have 5 and all the rest have 4 or less. That's a ton of room for EW/tackling gear. I actually prefer to use my Blackbird in a heavy tackler role and I still love it even though i don't use the ECM bonus at all. Also, good ECM != permajam. Even after the ECM nerf, you can jam ships sometimes, and that's often enough to turn the tides in your favor.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:14:00 - [8] For ECM caldari whinners.. just say that.. Minmatar and Target painters. Go back to your cave! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:17:00 - [9] While at first it seemed the ECM nerf hit certain ships t== hard, after some testing i found that it's still a very powerful tool. Scorpion: 4x cruise missile, as many nos as you can fit 2x sensor booster, Two gallente, Two caldari, One Minmatar and One Amarr racial jammer (all T2) 2x 1600mm plate 2x that lowslot ECM boost thing. Use with medium sensor dampener drones for maximum effect in close combat. Basilisk Fitting Link
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:22:00 - [10] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 10/01/2007 15:08:16 The Blackbird is one of the best small gang PvP ships available and I also think one of the most underestimated. Aside from the ECM bonuses, it's got 6 mid-slots, the most of any T1 cruiser. The Caracal and the Celestis have 5 and all the rest have 4 or less. That's a ton of room for EW/tackling gear. I actually prefer to use my Blackbird in a heavy tackler role and I still love it even though i don't use the ECM bonus at all. Also, good ECM != permajam. Even after the ECM nerf, you can jam ships sometimes, and that's often enough to turn the tides in your favor. well i can completely agree with you there but it doesnt work well well for solo pvp at all - it doesnt have the dps needed to take down any half decent pie sure the ecm is fine against npc's but thats not really much help.... and i do appreciate wot some of u say about the ecm boosters in the lows and the rigs but cmon u fit rigs to a bb ur talking a serious hit on the bank balance if it goes pop.....(i have been playing all of 3 months) 20+m is alot to lose, ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~

Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 10/01/2007 15:18:34 While at first it seemed the ECM nerf hit certain ships t== hard, after some testing i found that it's still a very powerful tool. Scorpion: 4x cruise missile, as many nos as you can fit 2x sensor booster, Two gallente, Two caldari, One Minmatar and One Amarr racial jammer (all T2) 2x 1600mm plate 2x that lowslot ECM boost thing. Rigs: none atm..wait untill they come down in price. Use with medium sensor dampener drones for maximum effect in close combat. thats an interesting setup to be sure, and i must admit when i had a scorp i was still training cruise missiles....and well torps suck balls might have to try that one ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:24:00 - [12] I'll post my typical blackbird fleet setup as well: 3x heavy missile launcher 1x small remote armor repper 4x racial of each (best named) 1x sensor booster 1x large shield extender 2x lowslot ECM boost thingy Basilisk Fitting Link
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:44:00 - [13] those lowslot ecm boosters do good work for ecms and i must admit im loathe to use the racial onces but if it works maybe its time to move over......but i take it u wouldnt solo in that setup....... ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:59:00 - [14] Originally by: Xsag those lowslot ecm boosters do good work for ecms and i must admit im loathe to use the racial onces but if it works maybe its time to move over......but i take it u wouldnt solo in that setup.... Yay now caldari want to solo in supportships... Dont fly a bb or scorp if you want to solo ffs... _________________________________________________ Breetime
kisu tei	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:00:00 - [15] YEY, caladri actually have a ship to complain about. maby eve is balancing out
Bronson Hughes Caldari Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:24:00 - [16] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 10/01/2007 16:21:06 Originally by: Xsag well i can completely agree with you there but it doesnt work well well for solo pvp at all - it doesnt have the dps needed to take down any half decent pie sure the ecm is fine against npc's but thats not really much help.... The Blackbird is a support ship, not a solo ship. Fly it as such and you'll find yourself very happy. If you want to solo PvP in a Caldari cruiser, go for a Caracal, they're much better suited for it and require the exact same skills.
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Zixxa Forget about ECM. Caldari scums do not deserve good PvP ships. Once formidable Scorpion, primary, now is less than small nuisance. BB is even more useless. All Caldari ECM ships cannot jam, cannot tank and cannot damage. With rigs or without. With or without low slots lost for jam powering. Tux, if you was so wise to render useless whole device class(ECM), please, make next step and remove from the game all ships based on this device class(ECM). Do you ever post something constructive?
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:50:00 - [18] Whoever solos in a scorp needs a slap. Basilisk Fitting Link
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:54:00 - [19] What 3 usefull cruisers hehe? Osprey for mining and caracal for anything else and...? well - Blackbirds aren't actually very good anymore... They are just good in the right hands, but with some rigs you can get the strength pretty much up to the old Pinky
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:31:00 - [20] Now.. how wwoudla bellicose be better than a Black bird? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!

Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:26:00 - [21] I gotta say though, since Revelations, I've come across very few scorps and no rooks or falcons.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:41:00 - [22] every Blackbird or scorp I have come accross uses dampners....
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/01/2007 14:54:02 Oh no, you can only permajam three ships at once instead of five. I feel so sorry for you. P.S. Tried the lowslot mods and rigs? You can nearly get the same strength as before... not all the way, but pretty close. I can see a rigged EW scorpion being very scary. I see that as one very expensive wreck.
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Audri Fisher every Blackbird or scorp I have come accross uses dampners.... Jammer + dampener drones = good combo...if only the scorp could field 5 heavies :) Basilisk Fitting Link
Shandling Minmatar Disband	Posted - 2007.01.10 18:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Pinky Denmark What 3 usefull cruisers hehe? Osprey for mining and caracal for anything else and...? The Moa is vastly underrated. Get some T2 Rails/Blasters on that, and a decent tank... it's a very solid solo PvP ship. Played correctly, I'd say comparable to the Rupture. (Although I'd prefer a Rupture myself, being Minmatar)
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.10 19:09:00 - [26] Originally by: Sokratesz I'll post my typical blackbird fleet setup as well: 3x heavy missile launcher 1x small remote armor repper 4x racial of each (best named) 1x sensor booster 1x large shield extender 2x lowslot ECM boost thingy Nice. Would replacing those missile launchers with rails be effective / fitting possible. To much time spent flying gallente... Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU!
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.10 19:13:00 - [27] ECM is only worthwhile now when you have 1 t2 signal distortion amp, and 2 ECM rigs on (or 2 and 1, I dont use 2 and 2, as afaik they stack like other damage mods?), recon or bs 5, and preferably a max-skilled infowarfare Eos in gang. Well, lucky for us then, its pretty brutal when someone skilled shows up in a rook. I see very few people flying hostile ECM ships any more, but when you get friendlies with as or more powerful ECM than pre-patch, its now actually more viable than ever. Kali was the death of the mid-skilled ECM pilot in every gang, and the birth of the elite ECM pilot as a force to be reckoned with. ---\|\|---
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.10 19:24:00 - [28] Originally by: Shin Ra I gotta say though, since Revelations, I've come across very few scorps and no rooks or falcons. Thats because people can't do math. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Redback911	Posted - 2007.01.10 19:42:00 - [29] Had no issues near permajamming 2 domis and a raven in a rook with Recon 4... Just use racials and the low slot enhancers. Multispecs are dead now, but tbh that was the main problem, they always should have been. Eve is rock paper scissors again, not ECM > all
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.10 19:46:00 - [30] Originally by: El Yatta ECM is only worthwhile now when you have 1 t2 signal distortion amp, and 2 ECM rigs on (or 2 and 1, I dont use 2 and 2, as afaik they stack like other damage mods?), recon or bs 5, If you can afford the rigs much less find them...if you dedicate your ship to ewar you dont need lowslots at all, so you got plenty space for 2 dist amps. Originally by: Jas Dor Nice. Would replacing those missile launchers with rails be effective / fitting possible. To much time spent flying gallente... If you can use T2 small railguns by all means do, they are great for killing tackler that may come after you. Basilisk Fitting Link



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