Originally by: Xsag

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since you very kindly nerfed ecm beyond all recognition the blackbird and the scorpion are basically useless - even with their modifiers for ecm they are still rubbish at it - unless your some v experienced player pvp ecm usage is pretty limited, I suggest changing the stats / bonuses on both the blackbird and the scorpion so that they might yet have a role / use because as it stands caldair now have only 3 useful cruisers (as opposed to 4 with other races) and 2 bs (as opposed to 3 for other races)

id be interested in other ppls opinions about this - im not flaming i just think the nerf on ecm has adversely affected caldari players more than any other race - will this be balanced at some point?

Moved from General Discussion - Devil ([email protected])

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Originally by: Zixxa

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Forget about ECM.
Caldari scums do not deserve good PvP ships. Once formidable Scorpion, primary, now is less than small nuisance.
BB is even more useless.
All Caldari ECM ships cannot jam, cannot tank and cannot damage. With rigs or without. With or without low slots lost for jam powering.

Tux, if you was so wise to render useless whole device class(ECM), please, make next step and remove from the game all ships based on this device class(ECM).

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Originally by: Bronson Hughes

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Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 10/01/2007 15:08:16
The Blackbird is one of the best small gang PvP ships available and I also think one of the most underestimated. Aside from the ECM bonuses, it's got 6 mid-slots, the most of any T1 cruiser. The Caracal and the Celestis have 5 and all the rest have 4 or less. That's a ton of room for EW/tackling gear. I actually prefer to use my Blackbird in a heavy tackler role and I still love it even though i don't use the ECM bonus at all.

Also, good ECM != permajam. Even after the ECM nerf, you can jam ships sometimes, and that's often enough to turn the tides in your favor.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Edited by: Sokratesz on 10/01/2007 15:18:34

While at first it seemed the ECM nerf hit certain ships t== hard, after some testing i found that it's still a very powerful tool.

Scorpion:

4x cruise missile, as many nos as you can fit

2x sensor booster, Two gallente, Two caldari, One Minmatar and One Amarr racial jammer (all T2)

2x 1600mm plate
2x that lowslot ECM boost thing.

Rigs: none atm..wait untill they come down in price.

Use with medium sensor dampener drones for maximum effect in close combat.

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Originally by: Xsag

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those lowslot ecm boosters do good work for ecms and i must admit im loathe to use the racial onces but if it works maybe its time to move over......but i take it u wouldnt solo in that setup....

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Originally by: Xsag

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well i can completely agree with you there but it doesnt work well well for solo pvp at all - it doesnt have the dps needed to take down any half decent pie sure the ecm is fine against npc's but thats not really much help....

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Originally by: Zixxa

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Forget about ECM.
Caldari scums do not deserve good PvP ships. Once formidable Scorpion, primary, now is less than small nuisance.
BB is even more useless.
All Caldari ECM ships cannot jam, cannot tank and cannot damage. With rigs or without. With or without low slots lost for jam powering.

Tux, if you was so wise to render useless whole device class(ECM), please, make next step and remove from the game all ships based on this device class(ECM).

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Edited by: Dark Shikari on 10/01/2007 14:54:02

Oh no, you can only permajam three ships at once instead of five.

I feel so sorry for you.

P.S. Tried the lowslot mods and rigs? You can nearly get the same strength as before... not all the way, but pretty close. I can see a rigged EW scorpion being very scary.

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Originally by: Audri Fisher

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every Blackbird or scorp I have come accross uses dampners....

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Originally by: Pinky Denmark

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What 3 usefull cruisers hehe? Osprey for mining and caracal for anything else and...?

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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I'll post my typical blackbird fleet setup as well:

3x heavy missile launcher
1x small remote armor repper

4x racial of each (best named)
1x sensor booster
1x large shield extender

2x lowslot ECM boost thingy

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Originally by: Shin Ra

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I gotta say though, since Revelations, I've come across very few scorps and no rooks or falcons.

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Originally by: El Yatta

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ECM is only worthwhile now when you have 1 t2 signal distortion amp, and 2 ECM rigs on (or 2 and 1, I dont use 2 and 2, as afaik they stack like other damage mods?), recon or bs 5,

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Nice. Would replacing those missile launchers with rails be effective / fitting possible. To much time spent flying gallente...

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Originally by: Xsag

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well i can completely agree with you there but it doesnt work well well for solo pvp at all - it doesnt have the dps needed to take down any half decent pie sure the ecm is fine against npc's but thats not really much help....

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Originally by: Redback911

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Eve is rock paper scissors again, not ECM > all

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Originally by: DunNa

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There is no tracking disruptors that only work on hybrids, there is no nosf that only works on amarian capacitors, there is no sensor damps that only effect gravimetric sensors... Why does ECM have to be different in this respect?

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Originally by: DunNa

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There is no tracking disruptors that only work on hybrids, there is no nosf that only works on amarian capacitors, there is no sensor damps that only effect gravimetric sensors... Why does ECM have to be different in this respect?

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Nice. Would replacing those missile launchers with rails be effective / fitting possible. To much time spent flying gallente...

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Nice. Would replacing those missile launchers with rails be effective / fitting possible. To much time spent flying gallente...

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Originally by: Splagada

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SEED ME DADDY

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Originally by: hired goon

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So if we miss a jam cycle, our ship will be dead. Can you say that about any other ship?

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Quote:

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Also, let's not forget that ECM range can never reach that at which fleet combat takes place nowadays.

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: hired goon

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So if we miss a jam cycle, our ship will be dead. Can you say that about any other ship?

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An ECM ship can alone change the outcome of a battle. Can you say that about any other ship?

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: hired goon

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Also, let's not forget that ECM range can never reach that at which fleet combat takes place nowadays.

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t2 racial ECM range 54k
* 2 from ship skill bonus 108k
* 1.5 from long distance jamming skill 162k
* 1.2 * 1.2 from 2 t1 Particle Dispersion Projector rigs 233k

Come again?

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Originally by: hired goon

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Yes. Most, infact.

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Quote:

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I admit my information was pre-revelations and therefore pre-rig. But I'm afraid I'm not going to spend such a silly amount of money just to be 'on-par', and then be toasted immediately due to the fact I'm in a scorpion at all.

Try again.

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Originally by: hired goon

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So if we miss a jam cycle, our ship will be dead.

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Originally by: hired goon

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Edited by: hired goon on 11/01/2007 01:09:10

Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: hired goon

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So if we miss a jam cycle, our ship will be dead. Can you say that about any other ship?

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An ECM ship can alone change the outcome of a battle. Can you say that about any other ship?

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Yes. Most, infact.

Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: hired goon

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Also, let's not forget that ECM range can never reach that at which fleet combat takes place nowadays.

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t2 racial ECM range 54k
* 2 from ship skill bonus 108k
* 1.5 from long distance jamming skill 162k
* 1.2 * 1.2 from 2 t1 Particle Dispersion Projector rigs 233k

Come again?

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I admit my information was pre-revelations and therefore pre-rig. But I'm afraid I'm not going to spend such a silly amount of money just to be 'on-par', and then be toasted immediately due to the fact I'm in a scorpion at all.

Try again.

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Quote:

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The Scorpion is a jamming ship. At least all of your ships arent one trick ponies[outclassed in their specific area by other ships of different races].

The Scorpions defense should be range. Otherwise, how do you kill a ship that can lay down such raw jamming power?

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Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron

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Quote:

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The Scorpion is a jamming ship. At least all of your ships arent one trick ponies[outclassed in their specific area by other ships of different races].

The Scorpions defense should be range. Otherwise, how do you kill a ship that can lay down such raw jamming power?

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Ideal situations are great, but let's be realistic. In fleet it's all fine and good to sit at 150km, but the game is not all about fleet, and even in fleet there are plenty of situations where you do not have the chance to choose your range. The scorpion is maybe the worst ship in the game at controling it's range... even with a MWD you are lucky to break 1k/s. So sure, in those situations where you can sit at 150km and jam the ship is great. 80% of the time you won't be in this nice a spot, as you may be jumping IN to a conflict or be sitting on a gate with your gang/fleet.

I'm not saying Ewar is broken. I don't have a problem with how it works atm. The problem lies in the scorpion which despite it's very good Ewar ability cannot effectively tank, DPS, lock, or run as well as any other battleship. It's clearly the worst in every category other than ECM, and frankly ECM just isn't enough to make up for the scorpion's last place position in every other area.

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: hired goon

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Yes. Most, infact.

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Care to explain which other *single* ship can *alone* have as much of an impact?

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: hired goon

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I admit my information was pre-revelations and therefore pre-rig. But I'm afraid I'm not going to spend such a silly amount of money just to be 'on-par', and then be toasted immediately due to the fact I'm in a scorpion at all.

Try again.

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If you are at 230k the only ships which can touch you are rohks. Also, a scorp + 2 rigs costs less than a tier3 BS + guns...

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Originally by: hired goon

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: hired goon

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Yes. Most, infact.

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Care to explain which other *single* ship can *alone* have as much of an impact?

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Ok, you are about to get into a small gang fight. Your 5 vs an enemy 5 in your space. Which would you rather the intel said was a member of that gang? A blackbird, or a Brutix/HAC/interdictor/AF? A scorpion or an Eos/Megathron? Even if you chose the ECM ships there, you had a tough time choosing.You have to admit my point; ECM boats are not the frightening pwn-monsters they were pre-rev.

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Originally by: hired goon

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Originally by: hired goon

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I admit my information was pre-revelations and therefore pre-rig. But I'm afraid I'm not going to spend such a silly amount of money just to be 'on-par', and then be toasted immediately due to the fact I'm in a scorpion at all.

Try again.

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If you are at 230k the only ships which can touch you are rohks. Also, a scorp + 2 rigs costs less than a tier3 BS + guns...

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You might be right on the range, as I remember tech2 ammo enabled 230k fleet combat as the norm - I'll check that out. Also however remember, my tier3 BS + tech2 guns might be made primary... will it? Won't it?

My scorp + rigs will die.

Infact, don't tell IRON commanders, but my scorp fleet setups used to have assault launchers in the highs and WCS in the lows as to escape pesky tacklers during my inevitable pilgrimage to the land of Primary Target. Now even if I wasn't relegated to ecm-boost mods in low, WCS would obviously be out of the question.

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Originally by: Aramendel

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Weapon range rigs are rather useless for sniper setups because they share stacking penalities with tracking comps. 3 t1 range rigs after 3 tracking comps give you a whooping 6.2% increase in range.

Generally you can say if a rig does something which a normal module does, too, and if the normal module gets stacking penalities the rig will share them with it.

The +EW range rigs have a stacking penality, too, though, so with 2 you only get a range of 228k instad of 232k. Not realyl a difference there though.

Oh, and regarding a Scorp or BB "dying instantly".

You can use 2-3 ECM mods and 1-2 1600mm plates without any problem on the scorp. In a moderate fleetbattle this gives you just as much breathingspace as other BSs to warp out. In bigger fleetbattles they can use rigs to outrange all but the weakest dps ships. giving them also a good survivability.
In small gang combat a scorp and BB can warp to 100 k - they are there just as effecient as they are at 0 k and will very likely be outside the enemy gangs range. You do not warp with a snipership at 0 k to a blasterthron and then complain because he killed you, right?

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Originally by: Zixxa

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Lol. Most people mumbling about uberness of postKali ECM never flown ECM ships. N E V E R. Period.

ECM ships just suxx now. You have to bring usual BS, like Dominix or even cruiser Raven and it will more useful than Scorpion which may jam sometimes one or two BS. Every pilot involved in war knows pretty well how weak now Scorpion. This caldari's trash does not deserve to be primary anymore. Once every Scorpion pilot was proud to be primary. He knew that he is doing the best for the mates. Now scorpion pilot is ignored in battle.
As additional "bonus" Scorpion cannot kill anything due to miserable firepower. Compare this, once impressive warship, with Typhoon(just deadly in solo/small/med gangs), Armageddon(hej, Burn Eden!), Dominix(possibly most universal BS in the game). Scorpion now is trash. Thank you, Tuxford, again for ruining the game.

Propositions of some retarded pilots to use rigging are laughful. Look at the price. Fight more. Think again.

Propositions of some not so retarded pilots to use racials are good only in rare conditions. Fight more. Think again.

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Quote:

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I'll trade you target painter bonuses for ecm bonuses.

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Quote:

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No it really is that good. The ability to jam three battleships is like the ability to destroy 3 battleships[if you in turn are not destroyed] as soon as you lock them. In a one on one situation another battleship should never lock you.

Compare say, to the Armageddon[which also cannot tank, cannot dictate its range, whose effective operating range is much much smaller than the scorpion and as well, only does one thing]. The Armageddon is a good ship. All it does is sit in one place and shoot at things. This doesnt make it bad, so long as it fills a role that another battleship cannot fill[and it does fill that role, which is now only being challenged with Rigs].

The Scorpion also fulfils a role no other battleship can fill, which is dedicated ECM.

You cannot give a dedicated ECM boat other advantages such as speed or great damage. Can you imagine an armageddon that was able to jam 3 ships as well as shoot at things? Could you imagine a dedicated tanking Abaddon that could jam 3 ships at a time? How could you kill it aside from blobbing?

What would a nanophoon look like with that kind of jamming ability? A domi?

The ability to completly[or near completly with missiles] shut down an enemies offensive capability is extraordinally powerful, if you start making those ships competent in other areas while retaining their ECM ability they become way way way to powerful.

Simply put, you are trying to turn the Scorpion into a "solopwnmobile" or a "sologangpwnmobile"

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Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron

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I've flown the scorpion and blackbird almost exclusively in pvp for a long time. While these ships are not currently useless, I am not pleased with their performance now and have been using mainly the drake and frigates outside of fleet. The blackbird is still very powerful, as a 3mil ship which can jam 2 battleships with a proper fit, but here's the problem. Very rarely are situations where your gang will fight 2v2 or 4v4, mostly you see blob fights or gankings. Blackbirds are not very good in blobs, as they will be swiftly killed by opposing HACs in 1-2 volleys. They are extremely powerful in a 3-4 man gang where you fight equal numbers, as you can take out 2 battleships and your gang can hopefully take down the remaining ships before you are annihilated. With that said, even jamming 2 battleships for 30 seconds can turn the tide in a small fight and win the engagement for you. Unfortunately the price you pay is that your BB will probably be the only casualty on your side. Therefore, if the BB is used as a throw-away support ship by a skilled EW pilot, it is an exceptional tool... albiet situational. I hardly ever fly them because... I don't like losing a ship every time we engage another gang.

The scorpion is another story. On paper, the scorpion looks extremely powerful... and in the right situation it can be absolutely devestating. Unfortunately the new changes have almost completely eliminated the survivibility of this battleship, meaning that it too is considered a throw-away ship in most fleet situations. The scorpion is the only battleship which does not have a weapon damage bonus... it is only one of two battleships which have only 6 high slots... and it's maximum of 4 turret or launcher slots is matched only by the typhoon, which has a myriad of other advantages. It is the slowest locking non-capital ship in eve. It may be the slowest and least-maneuverable battleship in the game, but I have not confirmed this... it certianly feels that way.

What does all this mean? It means that a properly-fitted EW scorpion (and with the bonuses this ship was given, it is obvious this is the way the developers intended it to be used) has the worst DPS, slowest lock time, worst handling, and worst tank of any battleship. It is the slowest battleship. In exchange this ship can, properly fitted and skilled... lock down 3 battleships 70-80% of the time, effectively taking them out of the battle. Is this a fair trade-off? The scorpion is a completely one-trick pony, and should probably be given some other advantage other than EWar. To be forced to fly the worst-rated battleship in every concevible area other than EW effectiveness seems like a harsh cost to be called primary 90% of the time. I would suggest to the developers that they boost the scorpion in some way so it is on par with other battleships. To prevent the scorpion from becoming a solo-pwn machine, a boost to it's defensive capabilities would greatly enhance the survivibility of this ship.

Combining the two EW bonuses into a single bonus and returning the old shield capacity boost would go a long way. Frankly any secondary bonus, be it to launcher ROF, shield strength, resistances, lock time, or whatever. I don't mind the EW changes, I just don't like flying a paper airplane.

For the record...

BB setup

3 assault T2 (precision)
1 remote repper/nos

1 MWD
2 Racial Jammers (matched)
2 Multispecs
1 Large Shield Extender II

2 Signal Distortion amp


Scorpion

4 T2 Cruise
1 E500 NOS
1 Large Smartbomb

6 Racial Jammers (pairs)
1 Sensor Booster II
1 100mn MWD

2 1600 plate
2 Signal Distortion Amplifier

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Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron

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Quote:

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I'll trade you target painter bonuses for ecm bonuses.

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No battleship has target painter bonuses, and I'm sure you would be rightly ****ed if one of yours did. Regardless this discussion is not about the craptastic nature of target painters... shall we nerf everything to that level of garbage, or should you simply take your target painter complaints to another thread, preferably one not dedicated to the scorpion?

Quote:

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No it really is that good. The ability to jam three battleships is like the ability to destroy 3 battleships[if you in turn are not destroyed] as soon as you lock them. In a one on one situation another battleship should never lock you.

Compare say, to the Armageddon[which also cannot tank, cannot dictate its range, whose effective operating range is much much smaller than the scorpion and as well, only does one thing]. The Armageddon is a good ship. All it does is sit in one place and shoot at things. This doesnt make it bad, so long as it fills a role that another battleship cannot fill[and it does fill that role, which is now only being challenged with Rigs].

The Scorpion also fulfils a role no other battleship can fill, which is dedicated ECM.

You cannot give a dedicated ECM boat other advantages such as speed or great damage. Can you imagine an armageddon that was able to jam 3 ships as well as shoot at things? Could you imagine a dedicated tanking Abaddon that could jam 3 ships at a time? How could you kill it aside from blobbing?

What would a nanophoon look like with that kind of jamming ability? A domi?

The ability to completly[or near completly with missiles] shut down an enemies offensive capability is extraordinally powerful, if you start making those ships competent in other areas while retaining their ECM ability they become way way way to powerful.

Simply put, you are trying to turn the Scorpion into a "solopwnmobile" or a "sologangpwnmobile"

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I'm not sure what game you are playing, but restoring the old shield bonus of 5% per level hardly consitutes a game-breaking adjustment. It's a slight buff, a suggestion that is up for discussion. Your overreaction stinks of trolling, as I fail to see how an extra 500-some passive shields per level would somehow transform the scorp into an awesome force to be reckoned with. It's an extra moment or two to warp out before popping after being called primary. It's a slight buff, nothing more.

Otherwise, what is the point of flying this battleship? The blackbird performs just as well in it's primary role. One or two of the scorpion's midslots are needed for sensor boosters anyhow, which leaves the scorp with at best 7 jammers to the blackbird's 6... and a 6 jammer blackbird will still lock faster than the scorp.

In a nutshell? EW is fine. Scorp needs a little love... nothing major, just a little boost. Same as about 10 other ships in eve, feel free to start threads about them.

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Quote:

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Otherwise, what is the point of flying this battleship? The blackbird performs just as well in it's primary role. One or two of the scorpion's midslots are needed for sensor boosters anyhow, which leaves the scorp with at best 7 jammers to the blackbird's 6... and a 6 jammer blackbird will still lock faster than the scorp.

In a nutshell? EW is fine. Scorp needs a little love... nothing major, just a little boost. Same as about 10 other ships in eve, feel free to start threads about them.

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Originally by: Commoner

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Quote:

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Otherwise, what is the point of flying this battleship? The blackbird performs just as well in it's primary role. One or two of the scorpion's midslots are needed for sensor boosters anyhow, which leaves the scorp with at best 7 jammers to the blackbird's 6... and a 6 jammer blackbird will still lock faster than the scorp.

In a nutshell? EW is fine. Scorp needs a little love... nothing major, just a little boost. Same as about 10 other ships in eve, feel free to start threads about them.

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Amen. This is the real problem, not the ECM, its the scorpion.

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Quote:

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Amen. This is the real problem, not the ECM, its the scorpion.

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Quote:

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as far as i can read.. there is a cruiser name in threads title.. that is the equivalent of bellicose. So he has a very valid point.

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Quote:

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OK.... NOW we might have a greap of reality. So close this thread and open another one with the correct title.

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BRING ECM BACK !!!!

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Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron

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Nobody is asking for a freakin scorpion to be able to jam 3 an dps like a raven. The scorpion would need over 100% bonus to ROF to match a raven's dps, and even the idiot Caldari aren't asking for that. Oh and by the way, the Raven is hardly the DPS champion of battleships. Most scorpion pilots would be happiest frankly with a change to their unbelevibly slow lock time. Maybe bring back the shield bonus. Please stop claiming that knowledgable Scorp pilots want a tech 1 battleship as good as a Dominix or Typhoon... we know our tech 1 will never be that good because we have probably the best tier 2 battleship (albiet for pve), and one of the better tier 3's. We just want the scorpion to suck a little less, and not be the absolute worst battleship in every offensive, defensive, speed, or locking aspect. EW is fine.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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It has no medslots 'left' for tanking, it has no lowslots 'open' for it. it needs everything it has to perform its role - and we just liek a liiiiitle more freedom in fitting them plzkthx.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Edited by: Sokratesz on 13/01/2007 09:24:00


Goumin, youre an idiot. we dont want to scorp to be omgwtfpwn, but the ecm nerf hit it hard, very hard, and we would like to free up at least one of the two medslots we currently need for sensorboosters for more survivability...

its an ewar ship, give it decent locktimes.

no-one in their right mind puts an 8-slot tank on a scorp for pvp cause its still made of tinfoil and has the ultimate in crappy-dps. I'll bet that NOT ONE single corp pilot with good skills and some experience (which i think i may claim to have) will put any form of tank on it for pvp, besides plates to extend his lifetime. It has no medslots 'left' for tanking, it has no lowslots 'open' for it. it needs everything it has to perform its role - and we just liek a liiiiitle more freedom in fitting them plzkthx.

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Quote:

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If you want DPS you do not fly a Scorp. Fly a Raven or Rokh or another race's BS but not a Scorp. Why peeps fit T2 Cruise launchers is beyond me - RoF will still suck.

I've had to drop the 3*1600 plate tank in lows since last EW change but replacing with 3*SDAs & DCU is no big hurt in my opinion. Only other change I'll be making is to fit Caldari racial jammers to counter Rokh which means dropping another racial jammer.

A properly fitted T1 Scorp is easily as dangerous as any other BS in a gang/fleet op & a great support ship. Very Dangerous, cheap & easily replaced.

I feel left out if I'm not primaried

p.s. Rook & BB still rule as well

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Quote:

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You have some very nice points, but I think I have to disagree. Obviously the Scorpion isn't meant to DPS, it not having a DPS bonus fairly well proves that. A slight boost to lock time or defense would surely not unbalance this ship. I agree with you that the rook and blackbird are fine, although the blackbird does use a ton of capacitor (and I have cap skills at 5), and I have to fit a large battery for extender jamming. The Falcon on the other hand has suffered even more than the scorpion. As I don't fly the ship, I'm not going to comment or suggest changes, but clearly the dev team should look at all the caldari ECM boats and consider changes to compensate in some small way for the ECM nerf (which was needed). Are they useless? No, not in the least... but given the very strong tier 1 battleships that other races have, and the extremely powerful recons, some adjustment is probably needed.

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Quote:

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You have some very nice points, but I think I have to disagree. Obviously the Scorpion isn't meant to DPS, it not having a DPS bonus fairly well proves that. A slight boost to lock time or defense would surely not unbalance this ship. I agree with you that the rook and blackbird are fine, although the blackbird does use a ton of capacitor (and I have cap skills at 5), and I have to fit a large battery for extender jamming. The Falcon on the other hand has suffered even more than the scorpion. As I don't fly the ship, I'm not going to comment or suggest changes, but clearly the dev team should look at all the caldari ECM boats and consider changes to compensate in some small way for the ECM nerf (which was needed). Are they useless? No, not in the least... but given the very strong tier 1 battleships that other races have, and the extremely powerful recons, some adjustment is probably needed.

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Originally by: Katarina Hetiako

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Hmm, well I for one am happy that these changes seem to upset alot of you. For too long ECM had been an 'I win' button and totally overpowered on Caldari ships.

My main used to use ECM but due to the fact that it was duller than watching paint dry I switched to dampers.

Thank you CCP for trying to balance the game.

All this Caldari whining if it's not one thing (my torps don't hit frigs) it's another (what! other ships can shoot at me).

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Originally by: welsh wizard

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Originally by: Katarina Hetiako

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stuff

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Tell you what, play the game before you post on these forums again ok? N1


Painters are good its just that pilots see no immediate benefit to themselves, its all "me, me & me". Painters are fantastic modules and provide no end of benefit to a gang.

The Scorpion doesn't jam BS without a completely dedicated setup, a setup which a lone battleship can get through in 20-30 seconds. It must have more staying power because at the moment it doesn't do its job in fleet. It needs a tanking bonus or 10% to ECM strength per level, "but then it'll omgwtfroflpwnarsepwnmofopwn!!!!" you all scream. stop thinking in terms of solo pvp, it isn't a solo ship, never will be. Even if it does tank like a Rokh it still isn't going to kill anything. Even the Rokh has trouble killing stuff with relatively poor damage but it tanks like hell.

It's broken, the evidence is right in front of your faces everytime you undock, not many people fly the bloody thing because; a)its no fun to fly b)it doesn't do what its supposed to do particuarly well and c)its too predictable resulting in constant death.

Right now we have a BS that no-one wants to fly, can any of the other races say that? If Caldari are going to have multiple ships dedicated to Ewar alone it needs to work well. Don't forget that all the other races get a useful extra tier 1 BS that aren't pigeon holed into having to use their races respective Ewar.

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