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GiantJack
Salvage Team Public-Enemy
7
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Posted - 2015.11.27 13:13:11 -
[1] - Quote
if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2467
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Posted - 2015.11.27 13:22:59 -
[2] - Quote
Because you wardec the corp, not the player is the official reason, iirc.
Also U is dead, probably no point referencing him. |
GiantJack
Salvage Team Public-Enemy
7
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Posted - 2015.11.27 13:32:01 -
[3] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Because you wardec the corp, not the player is the official reason, iirc.
than the rule i mentioned would be bullshit too becuase u cannot join the same corp if u leave it for 2 weeks i think (in war)
afkalt wrote:Also U is dead, probably no point referencing him. sorry i dont get it... or u mean u = you ? |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1054
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 13:37:17 -
[4] - Quote
Umm...
You wardeced a corp that then folded and ceased to exist under your aggression. You Won.
Are you asking for the right to drive those players clean out of the game? |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2849
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 13:44:23 -
[5] - Quote
You DO wardec the Corp not the player. If you have a personal vendetta you can attempt suicide ganks, theft, or other forms of attack.
But I do agree it is too cheap and easy to roll corps. I dont mind people dropping to an npc or social Corp for the duration of a war, but instantly entering or creating another Corp should be looked at.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2407
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 14:34:10 -
[6] - Quote
I'm not saying it works in a good way but you should probably change your target selection criteria if you really wanted to get fights out of those decs... |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2041
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Posted - 2015.11.27 15:11:08 -
[7] - Quote
GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp You should always be able to leave a corp that has been wardecced. You should never be forced to fight for a corporation if you have no interest in doing so.
That said, you should not trivially be able to dodge a war by dropping and reforming a new corp thus minutes later resuming the benefits of being in a player corp - that makes a mockery of the whole risk vs. reward of being in a player corp. There should be some penalty or mechanic to discourage this behaviour. Either a hard cap where you have to remain in the NPC corp for the duration of the original war (or 7 days maybe), or perhaps if you join/create a new corp, a kill right is generated against you for the original wardeccing corp with a duration of 7 days.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
700
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Posted - 2015.11.27 15:23:52 -
[8] - Quote
Reported for redundancy. It's not our responsibility to teach you how wardeccing works.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Hopelesshobo
Tactical Nuclear Penguin's
507
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 16:45:51 -
[9] - Quote
GiantJack wrote: its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
Ok, so when you wardec a corp, you also cannot wardec another corp for 30 days either, because balance.
GiantJack wrote: @CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
You don't think that this would make the people attempting to avoid a wardec unhappy? What makes you more special then them?
As previously stated, if you have an issue with an individual person, gank them. If you have an issue with a corp, wardec them. Any corp that's worth wardeccing won't dissolve their corp because they got wardecced by 1 guy.
Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
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Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
438
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Posted - 2015.11.27 17:14:08 -
[10] - Quote
GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days)
All this would do is create LESS content. People would just station spin or not log in until the war is over. Most smaller HS corps don't have the organization, means, or desire to fight a half dozen T3s on any gate they jump through in HS.
If you're in a more industry/PvE focused corp, chances are you simply can't win a fight against a well organized merc corp. Those people would just not play the game if they could avoid decs. |
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unidenify
Plundering Penguins Solyaris Chtonium
162
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Posted - 2015.11.27 17:41:35 -
[11] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp You should always be able to leave a corp that has been wardecced. You should never be forced to fight for a corporation if you have no interest in doing so. That said, you should not trivially be able to dodge a war by dropping and reforming a new corp thus minutes later resuming the benefits of being in a player corp - that makes a mockery of the whole risk vs. reward of being in a player corp. There should be some penalty or mechanic to discourage this behaviour. Either a hard cap where you have to remain in the NPC corp for the duration of the original war (or 7 days maybe), or perhaps if you join/create a new corp, a kill right is generated against you for the original wardeccing corp with a duration of 7 days.
I agree with this
Same time, make it so you have to be in player corp to do high sec incursion. which I suggest in other thread about nerf high sec incursion. Bam, new risk for high sec carebear |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
658
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 18:26:20 -
[12] - Quote
unidenify wrote:Same time, make it so you have to be in player corp to do high sec incursion. which I suggest in other thread about nerf high sec incursion. Bam, new risk for high sec carebear Have you ever run Incursions is the first question I would ask?
I doubt making it a requirement to be in a player corp would change high sec incursions in any noticeable way. While forcing them into player corps may make them potential targets, they would likely be targets that most merc corps would not want to tangle with simply because of the high cost of replacing the ships they would lose.
Even if you did make this a requirement they would simply have an entire series of corps set up and held open by an alts. When war deced they would simply drop corp and rejoin one of the others and continue with life in EvE as normal.
OP You say that people being able to drop corp or move to another makes you an unhappy player, yet you completely ignore the fact that in the simple act of declaring war on them YOU have created and entire group of unhappy players. All you are doing is clearly stating that YOUR happiness with this game is more important than those you war dec and that is the very definition of being selfish.
To a more general comment on the situation. In my years in the game one thing has held constant and that is your ability as a player to move from corp to corp without limits as to why or when and it must always stay that way. If there are any restrictions placed on this freedom of movement during a war dec then they must be balanced by more restrictions on who and when you can declare war. |
Madd Adda
145
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Posted - 2015.11.27 20:59:57 -
[13] - Quote
you can force a corp into war, but you can't make its members fight. OP just wants to easy kills from indy corps that won't/can't fight back.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3970
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 23:22:31 -
[14] - Quote
So OP.
Why should it not be possible for a nullsec resident to create a corp without either using an alt or waiting a month? Let's face it, we're all under wardecs all the time. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15260
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 00:01:49 -
[15] - Quote
Hard barriers, especially timers, are not good game design. Instead, just raise the corp creation cost to something non trivial. Maybe make it multiply if you use it too often.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2015.11.28 01:00:07 -
[16] - Quote
GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it There is a huge workload when remaking corp, unless it's a one-man lolcorp. There is a whole lot higher cost of not remaking a corp on wardec, so remaking it is still better, despite huge workload. Here's a revolting solution for you: wardec corps who are actually willing to fight. There are plenty, just don't expect a fight from holing up pussybears like marmite or devils.
GiantJack wrote:its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days) So, basically, you want people to stay in NPC corp forever, because lolcorps (who were probably not going to fight you anyway even if they had to stay docked) made you mad?
GiantJack wrote:@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers? Like, you know, newbie miners you wardecced because you were afraid of someone who actually can fit a gun?
GiantJack wrote:it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp This rule has prevented an exploit, that is a good reason to leave it alone, until new mechanics are implemented which would enable to remove old hacks (like, you know, free corp aggro hack). But until it happens, we're stuck with a hack it is.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Hard barriers, especially timers, are not good game design. Instead, just raise the corp creation cost to something non trivial. Maybe make it multiply if you use it too often. It already contains a huge pita for non-lolcorps. Scooping all the POSes, redoing permissions, the cost of offices is also lost and you have to repopulate corp hangars with stuff and persmissions all over again, then re-setup the POSes, just to have some unicellular being to press the concord removal button again on your new corp in 2 days. Trivial? Pressing the concord removal button is trivial, redoing the corp is a major PITA and cost. The problem is that the cost of not doing it could easily go into billions, better fix that. |
O2 jayjay
DERP'S R US
52
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Posted - 2015.11.28 06:02:59 -
[17] - Quote
GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp
They just need to make the wardec coat and new corp cost the same.
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
653
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 07:33:51 -
[18] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:You DO wardec the Corp not the player. If you have a personal vendetta you can attempt suicide ganks, theft, or other forms of attack.
But I do agree it is too cheap and easy to roll corps. I dont mind people dropping to an npc or social Corp for the duration of a war, but instantly entering or creating another Corp should be looked at.
Pretty much this since you do war dec a group of people within a corp. If there is some personal issues you should use different tools. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2731
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 10:48:17 -
[19] - Quote
CCP have already fixed this. Citadels which replace POS can not be pulled down faster than 24 hours meaning they will always be vulnerable to a wardec. So corps will not be able to casually roll if they have structures.
And if they do not have structures pick your targets better. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1058
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 12:27:08 -
[20] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp They just need to make the wardec coat and new corp cost the same.
if they do that, then they may as well just let people pay to restore Concord protection. |
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
659
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 17:08:44 -
[21] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:CCP have already fixed this. Citadels which replace POS can not be pulled down faster than 24 hours meaning they will always be vulnerable to a wardec. So corps will not be able to casually roll if they have structures. The average war dec is nothing more than paying Concord to look the other way when you kill careless people, or those who do not fully understand what a war dec actually means and structuires in space have very little to do with war decs. Since structures in space have very little to do with the average war dec these new structures will have virtually zero impact on war decs.
Setting that part of the new structures aside I draw your attention to this dev blog. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/building-your-citadel-one-block-at-a-time/
Specifically the section titled "Regarding the blueprints themselves: " According to this blog the cost for the blue print for the hull alone for a medium will be 6 billion ISK. How many of the high sec corps are going to be able to afford 6 billion ISK just for the blueprint? These new structures are going to have exactly ZERO affect on the average high sec war dec, their cost alone guarantees that fact.
From another point of view and looking at the costs of these new citadels one can only hope that CCP ties the ability to war dec a corp to them having a structure in space. Finally being able to form a corp with friends simply because we want to, and never having to worry about a war dec, such are the things dreams are made of. That and it will be funny to sit and read the tears from the war dec community about how unfair it is that they cannot war dec hundreds of smaller corps and that is ruining their enjoyment of the game, yes those tears would be especially tasty.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2732
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 00:07:49 -
[22] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:The average war dec is nothing more than paying Concord to look the other way when you kill careless people, or those who do not fully understand what a war dec actually means and structuires in space have very little to do with war decs. Since structures in space have very little to do with the average war dec these new structures will have virtually zero impact on war decs. Setting that part of the new structures aside I draw your attention to this dev blog. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/building-your-citadel-one-block-at-a-time/ Specifically the section titled "Regarding the blueprints themselves: " According to this blog the cost for the blue print for the hull alone for a medium will be 6 billion ISK. How many of the high sec corps are going to be able to afford 6 billion ISK just for the blueprint? These new structures are going to have exactly ZERO affect on the average high sec war dec, their cost alone guarantees that fact. From another point of view and looking at the costs of these new citadels one can only hope that CCP ties the ability to war dec a corp to them having a structure in space. Finally being able to form a corp with friends simply because we want to, and never having to worry about a war dec, such are the things dreams are made of. That and it will be funny to sit and read the tears from the war dec community about how unfair it is that they cannot war dec hundreds of smaller corps and that is ruining their enjoyment of the game, yes those tears would be especially tasty. If I needed a BPO to ever own a Citadel, I could do it solo in less than a month if I bothered. Of course, I could also just spend a few hundred million to buy a researched BPC off someone who owns the BPO or I could spend 600 million or a bit more to buy one already manufactured off the market. So yes, people will have the citadels, the average corp is quite capable of acquiring them via one way or another, and they will make a difference to wardecs.
If you want to kill the person not paying attention, just learn to gank. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 05:47:09 -
[23] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:CCP have already fixed this. Citadels which replace POS can not be pulled down faster than 24 hours meaning they will always be vulnerable to a wardec. So corps will not be able to casually roll if they have structures.
And if they do not have structures pick your targets better.
Unanchoring timer duration was NOT specified in dev blogs. The specified 24 hours is for anchoring. They are referred to as separate timers, so, as of yet, the unanchoring timer duration is unknown.
Well, if it is 24 hours, then hisec will not have structures. Hooray for yet another deathblow to hisec mining, which is pure necrophilia, sodomizing something which has been killed by odyssey and buried by crius. If it is less, it's still loss of rigs every time some unicellular organism pushes concord removal button, so that depends on the usability of unrigged citadel compared to that of rigged citadel.
Donnachadh wrote:From another point of view and looking at the costs of these new citadels one can only hope that CCP ties the ability to war dec a corp to them having a structure in space. Finally being able to form a corp with friends simply because we want to, and never having to worry about a war dec, such are the things dreams are made of. That and it will be funny to sit and read the tears from the war dec community about how unfair it is that they cannot war dec hundreds of smaller corps and that is ruining their enjoyment of the game, yes those tears would be especially tasty.
Rushing social corps without thinking is something which will be very bad. Having only no structures in space requirement promotes their abuse by ganktards - free ganks, at no threat of wardec. Their ridiculous argument of "It's -10.0 anyway" is meaningless due to CCP non-enforcement of alts scrapping exploit (using infinite buddy invites to grab a plex for main and 51 days of playtime on a throwaway gank account). Easy solution would be just to disallow red safety for social corps (which kind of makes sense), but it breaks lowsec - either it's permanent security loss for lowbros to shoot them, or we allow limited lowsec wardec with no security status loss and confuse everyone, or we make them free game in lowsec and they will never go there. Therefore, social corps cannot be fit in without a compete rethinking of war dec mechanics, which is long overdue - it has been like 500% ISK inflation since the costs were introduced, which makes them too dated and simply too low for the deccer, both sides of it can easily avoid any conflict with a fairly high penalty to defender and virtually no penalty for attacker, and with the collapse of the last successful mutual war dec, the current mechanic only serves as the newbie repellent - it simply doesn't hurt anyone else (except maybe a few attackers and Kaarous going full butthurt in this and many other threads). |
O2 jayjay
DERP'S R US
52
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Posted - 2015.11.29 06:19:13 -
[24] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:GiantJack wrote:if i wardec someone and he leave the corp and creates a new corp thats a real bad joke why the hell CCP is not change it
its damn easy to fix: if a new corp is created u cannot leave it for 30 (or at least 7 days) if u leave a corp u cannot create a new corp for 30 (or at least 7 days)
@CCP why the hell u dont change this. u like unhappy customers?
it makes the "u cannot join the same corp if left in wardec for 2? weeks" rule to a big joke if u just make a new corp They just need to make the wardec coat and new corp cost the same. if they do that, then they may as well just let people pay to restore Concord protection.
Yes that would work also. Turn it into a isk battle.....NVM that sounds like a horriable idea.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
660
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 16:33:43 -
[25] - Quote
Nevyn AuscentI wrote:If I needed a BPO to ever own a Citadel, I could do it solo in less than a month if I bothered. Of course, I could also just spend a few hundred million to buy a researched BPC off someone who owns the BPO or I could spend 600 million or a bit more to buy one already manufactured off the market. So yes, people will have the citadels, the average corp is quite capable of acquiring them via one way or another, and they will make a difference to wardecs. First in the dev blog CCP does not indicate if the the blueprints will be originals or copies only. No you cannot assume that they will be BPO's because there are at least 3 items in the game that I know of that are available as single run BPC's only, hello Nestor, Stratios and Astero we are looking at you.
If you have interpreted this correctly you will still have a 1.2 billion ISK investment in the hull alone, 600 million for the BPC and 600 million for materials. And you will still have to add the costs for all the modules, rigs etc that will turn it into something that can be used and at this point I have not seen any information from CCP on the expected costs of those items. So it is not out of the range of possibility that a fully set up medium citadel could cost between 3 and 4 billion ISK. And at that level of investment and considering the risk associated with having one I think it is safe to assume that these citadels will not be popping up in high sec like weeds in an untreated lawn. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 16:57:56 -
[26] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Nevyn AuscentI wrote:If I needed a BPO to ever own a Citadel, I could do it solo in less than a month if I bothered. Of course, I could also just spend a few hundred million to buy a researched BPC off someone who owns the BPO or I could spend 600 million or a bit more to buy one already manufactured off the market. So yes, people will have the citadels, the average corp is quite capable of acquiring them via one way or another, and they will make a difference to wardecs. First in the dev blog CCP does not indicate if the the blueprints will be originals or copies only. No you cannot assume that they will be BPO's because there are at least 3 items in the game that I know of that are available as single run BPC's only, hello Nestor, Stratios and Astero we are looking at you. If you have interpreted this correctly you will still have a 1.2 billion ISK investment in the hull alone, 600 million for the BPC and 600 million for materials. And you will still have to add the costs for all the modules, rigs etc that will turn it into something that can be used and at this point I have not seen any information from CCP on the expected costs of those items. So it is not out of the range of possibility that a fully set up medium citadel could cost between 3 and 4 billion ISK. And at that level of investment and considering the risk associated with having one I think it is safe to assume that these citadels will not be popping up in high sec like weeds in an untreated lawn.
Dev blog states: "Like all Tech I blueprints, they will be seeded from specific NPC corporations through various areas of space, including high-security areas. We want the prices to be that high to keep a long term goal and investment for industrial players, while making sure there is gameplay involved with selling blueprint copies to third parties." And the following picture features copying time as a stat. This together strongly hints BPO. And the first line doesn't sit well with the soe ships line, explicitly saying "Like all Tech I blueprints" and 3 ships are on the very minor side of "all".
ED: CSM Citadel FAQ also says: "How will I build my Citadel?Blueprints will be available on the market." I dare you to find a BPC on the market. Only BPOs are there. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2479
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 17:05:49 -
[27] - Quote
Might want to read this: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/building-your-citadel-one-block-at-a-time/
Estimated prices, mod costs etc etc |
Varyah
I am Forever of the Stars
16
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Posted - 2015.11.29 18:55:59 -
[28] - Quote
I think the problem is with you.
Why do you declare war on a corp that has no intention of fighting back?
If you wanted to disrupt their business, you accomplished that.
If you wanted to remove their structures in space, you accomplished that if they pack up, otherwise you can shoot them.
If you just wanted some easy kills done with ships that are more shiny than a catalyst that is your problem! You want other players that are not interested that much in ship-vs-ship pvp to just roll over and let you kill them.
Pick targets for war decs that give you actual fights or go pirating in low sec or wormholes if you need this thing you all claim to be the "content" your are looking for. If you don't have the balls to do that - why should CCP help you overcompensate? Why demand the content gets delivered on a silver platter?
"Wahwahwah, I paid CONCORD some ISK, CCP you have to force those miners to let me shoot them!" |
Iain Cariaba
2072
|
Posted - 2015.11.29 21:13:10 -
[29] - Quote
Varyah wrote:Why do you declare war on a corp that has no intention of fighting back?
If you wanted to disrupt their business, you accomplished that. Oh look, you answered your own question. Not all PvP in EvE requires a target lock. Economic warfare does exist here.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 03:28:58 -
[30] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Varyah wrote:Why do you declare war on a corp that has no intention of fighting back?
If you wanted to disrupt their business, you accomplished that. Oh look, you answered your own question. Not all PvP in EvE requires a target lock. Economic warfare does exist here. Newbies in retrievers without even a single foreman link have about as much effect on economy as house cats on dow jones. Let's face it, if it wasn't worth defending, than it had no economical impact whatsoever, so it wasn't economic warfare, it was just routine attempt to feel good about griefing hisec newbies out of the game. |
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Iain Cariaba
2073
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 06:10:27 -
[31] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Varyah wrote:Why do you declare war on a corp that has no intention of fighting back?
If you wanted to disrupt their business, you accomplished that. Oh look, you answered your own question. Not all PvP in EvE requires a target lock. Economic warfare does exist here. Newbies in retrievers without even a single foreman link have about as much effect on economy as house cats on dow jones. Let's face it, if it wasn't worth defending, than it had no economical impact whatsoever, so it wasn't economic warfare, it was just routine attempt to feel good about griefing hisec newbies out of the game. Not all economics is macro economics.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15290
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 06:35:12 -
[32] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: Newbies in retrievers without even a single foreman link have about as much effect on economy as house cats on dow jones. Let's face it, if it wasn't worth defending, than it had no economical impact whatsoever, so it wasn't economic warfare, it was just routine attempt to feel good about griefing hisec newbies out of the game.
If only it hadn't already been conclusively shown to us that non consensual PvP has a hugely positive effect on retention.
When you shoot a miner, you're doing them a favor by showing them that parts of this game exist that are actually worth playing.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2015.11.30 07:08:46 -
[33] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:If only it hadn't already been conclusively shown to us that non consensual PvP has a hugely positive effect on retention. Too bad grief decs are not non-consensual pvp, they are either mutual avoidance fest or farming of people who weren't born with knowledge of war dec mechanics.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:When you shoot a miner, you're doing them a favor by showing them that parts of this game exist that are actually worth playing. Eve combat pvp is not worth playing until you are at least 50 million SP - as conclusively shown by CCP in their kills presentaiton.
Iain Cariaba wrote:Not all economics is macro economics. A newbie in retriever is nano economics (because it doesn't qualify for micro). |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15290
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 07:20:38 -
[34] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: grief decs
There is no such thing, Basil. Wardecs are never griefing.
Quote: Eve combat pvp is not worth playing until you are at least 50 million SP
A complete, utter lie. It's people like you who are the real griefers, constantly trying to shut out new players with your vile attitudes and naysaying.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Iain Cariaba
2076
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 07:26:22 -
[35] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:When you shoot a miner, you're doing them a favor by showing them that parts of this game exist that are actually worth playing. Eve combat pvp is not worth playing until you are at least 50 million SP - as conclusively shown by CCP in their kills presentaiton. This is 100% wrong. Even a day old character in a hero tackle t1 frigate can contribute to PvP.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 07:53:02 -
[36] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There is no such thing, Basil. Wardecs are never griefing. We've been over this literally more than ten times. I've even citated the Terms of Service and quoted CCP to you. Persistently chasing someone is harassment. Harassment is a form of griefing and forbidden by ToS I. ToS IV further clarifies that "war", "roleplay", etc - cannot be used as an excuse to violate ToS I. In short, it means valid target for shooting does not translate to valid target for griefing, and since grief dec is all about persistently chasing someone (who is clueless enough about concord removal mechanics to just drop corp and avoid you or do not undock) - it is actually griefing. Now try to refute that without using lame excuses like "no it's not cuz my intracranial cabbage is stylish".
Quote:A complete, utter lie. It's people like you who are the real griefers, constantly trying to shut out new players with your vile attitudes and naysaying. If only it weren't conclusively demonstrated by CCP kills presentation... |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15291
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 07:55:52 -
[37] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:*snipped out more of his repetitive whining*
Shut up, Basil.
Wardecs are never griefing, harassment, or whatever other tearful bullshit you come up with. If you cannot deal with wars, stop being in a player corp. So long as that option exists at all, you don't have a leg to stand on.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 07:57:09 -
[38] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:This is 100% wrong. Even a day old character in a hero tackle t1 frigate can contribute to PvP. If you consider being a bait for killboard padders a "contribution", yes he can. If you mean doing something meaningful, no he can't. According to CCP kills presentation, there are almost no kills scored by characters below 50m SP to characters above 50m SP. That is conclusive enough. You don't like it? Well, go be bittervethurt somewhere else.
I'll even speculate and say that most of the kills scored were in gank catalysts against freighter pilot, which is not even pvp (it makes no difference is freighter is piloted or not, so it's pve with an observer). |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 07:58:40 -
[39] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Now try to refute that without using lame excuses like "no it's not cuz my intracranial cabbage is stylish". And your arguments are?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Shut up, Basil.
Wardecs are never griefing, harassment, or whatever other tearful bullshit you come up with. If you cannot deal with wars, stop being in a player corp. So long as that option exists at all, you don't have a leg to stand on.
Let me help you: it's not griefing BECAUSE ... (fill your argument here).
Otherwise it is griefing as stated in ToS I. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15291
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 07:59:04 -
[40] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:That is conclusive enough.
No, it doesn't mean anything close to what you're claiming.
Once again, shut up Basil.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:01:10 -
[41] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:That is conclusive enough. No, it doesn't mean anything close to what you're claiming. Once again, shut up Basil.
Care to actually point out the difference between CCP claim and mine? No. Then, unfortunately, it does. I'm sorry for your dialectic fiasco. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2479
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:01:58 -
[42] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Quote:A complete, utter lie. It's people like you who are the real griefers, constantly trying to shut out new players with your vile attitudes and naysaying. If only it weren't conclusively demonstrated by CCP kills presentation...
Too bad there are "eve is easy" videos out there with sub 4m skill points, owning people left, right and centre.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je5UPKssuiE |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15291
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:02:14 -
[43] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: Let me help you: it's not griefing BECAUSE .
Because that particular portion of the TOS requires that someone has made a reasonable effort to get away. And if you don't drop to an NPC corp, you have not made that effort. But then I already said this, you just lack in reading comprehension.
Go ahead and ask a GM sometime. They will tell you that no amount of wars is considered griefing or harassment, and if you can't deal with wars then you need to stop being in a player corp.
It's one of the few things they will give you a consistent answer on. Your self serving, dishonest interpretation of the rules doesn't matter at all.
Wars are never griefing. Certainly not just because your dumb ass thinks they are.
Once again.
Shut up, Basil.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:11:21 -
[44] - Quote
Finally some argument-looking thing to tear apart.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Because that particular portion of the TOS requires that someone has made a reasonable effort to get away. And if you don't drop to an NPC corp, you have not made that effort. But then I already said this, you just lack in reading comprehension. Wasn't it you crying about it being exploit the last week? Define "reasonable effort to get away", otherwise you can pull everything into this. Is not undocking for a week reasonable effort? Running 10 systems away reasonable effort?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Go ahead and ask a GM sometime. They will tell you that no amount of wars is considered griefing or harassment, and if you can't deal with wars then you need to stop being in a player corp. There is a clear ToS and clarification that certain action during concord removal grief dec may fall within griefing. It is not a matter of GM opinion or someone else's opinion.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's one of the few things they will give you a consistent answer on. Your self serving, dishonest interpretation of the rules doesn't matter at all. So your interpretation of vague "reasonable effort" over mine of nothing but using clarification is better? Let me help you again: BECAUSE ...
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Wars are never griefing. Certainly not just because your dumb ass thinks they are. ToS I and IV say otherwise.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Once again.
Shut up, Basil.
Are you referring to yourself by any chance? |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15291
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:16:03 -
[45] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: Wasn't it you crying about it being exploit the last week?
Repeatedly rerolling corps was an exploit for a long time. I believe it should be again.
Quote: Define "reasonable effort to get away"
Actually doing something, instead of doing nothing.
When all else fails, if you have not yet dropped to an NPC corp, you have not made a reasonable effort.
Quote: Is not undocking for a week reasonable effort? Running 10 systems away reasonable effort?
Neither.
Quote:It is not a matter of GM opinion or someone else's opinion.
It's a matter of GM opinion only. Not yours, certainly.
Quote: ToS I and IV say otherwise.
That's just it, they literally don't.
Shut up, Basil.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:17:34 -
[46] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:Quote:A complete, utter lie. It's people like you who are the real griefers, constantly trying to shut out new players with your vile attitudes and naysaying. If only it weren't conclusively demonstrated by CCP kills presentation... Too bad there are "eve is easy" videos out there with sub 4m skill points, owning people left, right and centre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je5UPKssuiE
He's using experience to carefully pick targets below 50m SP, against whom he uses his vet wallet in a superfocused corner case of SP usage of a character. Real newbies neither has his experience in picking newbie targets he can't kill due to SP wall factor, nor his super-focused character, neither his deep wallet.
While he does create an exception, it is far too minor to be reconsidering the general rule. It doesn't even contradict the CCP claim (can't kill 50m SP in a straight fight), only that of mine, and not majorly so. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:24:35 -
[47] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Repeatedly rerolling corps was an exploit for a long time. I believe it should be again. Because?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Actually doing something, instead of doing nothing. So moving next system is a reasonable effort? It's doing something.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:When all else fails, if you have not yet dropped to an NPC corp, you have not made a reasonable effort. I stayed up docked for a week to avoid being griefed, was that not a considerable effort?
You can't claim it's neither based on that definition. Remove contradiction from your definition... or go the usual way of no argumentation whatsoever, like you typically do.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's a matter of GM opinion only. Not yours, certainly. The rules are clear enough to not be up for opinions. If it's starting the opinion contest, it's a welcoming mat for bias and corruption.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:That's just it, they literally don't. You know it's funny that they literally do. The whole effort things was a part of clarification, that is not a part of ToS, strictly speaking. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2479
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:25:56 -
[48] - Quote
No, what he's showing is SP matters not a jot but experience is the case.
In game where experience comes with time and so do SP independent of activity, it is hardly a shock, is it?
And no experience lets him "carefully pick targets under 50m SP"...that's ludicrous to even suggest he knows how many skills or where they are spent a pilot has.
My booster pilot has 27m skill points and most of those are in LD but I absolutely would take the pepsi challenge with him against a 50m pilot in a heartbeat. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15291
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:30:25 -
[49] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: So moving next system is a reasonable effort? It's doing something.
No, it's still doing nothing. Defending yourself is doing something, and dropping to an NPC corp is doing something.
Moving one system? You might as well just suspect flag yourself and go afk on the 4-4 undock.
Quote: I stayed up docked for a week to avoid being griefed, was that not a considerable effort?
No. Not at all.
Quote: The rules are clear enough to not be up for opinions.
Exactly. It's just very much not in your favor.
Only their opinion matters, and their opinion is universally against your claims.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:40:25 -
[50] - Quote
afkalt wrote:No, what he's showing is SP matters not a jot but experience is the case. By carefully choosing low SP targets he actually shows that SP is next to only thing that actually matters.
afkalt wrote:In game where experience comes with time and so do SP independent of activity, it is hardly a shock, is it? The only experience part in his play is learning to chose low SP targets in a ship they can't reliably fly.
afkalt wrote:And no experience lets him "carefully pick targets under 50m SP"...that's ludicrous to even suggest he knows how many skills or where they are spent a pilot has. It really is not that hard.
afkalt wrote:My booster pilot has 27m skill points and most of those are in LD but I absolutely would take the pepsi challenge with him against a 50m pilot in a heartbeat. And prove my point by losing. |
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:44:39 -
[51] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:No, it's still doing nothing. Defending yourself is doing something, and dropping to an NPC corp is doing something. One week you cry about it as an exploit, the other week you're actually... encouraging it? Still have no definition which would reliably break things into "doing something" and "not doing something". And defending is not possible, because attacker would either ignore you or blob you. There is no case where defending does anything, so why is it "doing something", when it should be a noteworthy example of "doing nothing"? Your definition is still full of contradtictions.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote: I stayed up docked for a week to avoid being griefed, was that not a considerable effort?
No. Not at all. Because?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote: The rules are clear enough to not be up for opinions.
Exactly. It's just very much not in your favor. Only their opinion matters, and their opinion is universally against your claims.
They are not in griefers favor, and I'm not the grief deccer here. It is clear enough that grief deccing is a violation of ToS I and there is no excuse to it according to ToS IV. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15291
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:55:32 -
[52] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: One week you cry about it as an exploit, the other week you're actually... encouraging it?
Wrong. If you aren't being deliberately obtuse, then you're just too dumb to understand it.
Do I really have to explain to you that not playing the game does not constitute having taken any action in your own defense?
Are you really that dense? (don't answer that, I already know you are. You're the numbskull that tried to convince a bunch of newbies that docking was griefing for crying out loud)
Quote: They are not in griefers favor
There are no griefers in wardecs. It is totally in favor of the aggressors, however. If you are still in a player corp, then you have not made a reasonable effort.
Quote: It is clear enough that grief deccing is a violation of ToS I and there is no excuse to it according to ToS IV.
There is no such thing. Wardecs are never griefing.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Azrael Hyabusa
Senex Legio The OSS
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 08:55:48 -
[53] - Quote
My first kill was Nov 2nd 2013.
/discuss. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2481
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 09:35:03 -
[54] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:afkalt wrote:No, what he's showing is SP matters not a jot but experience is the case. By carefully choosing low SP targets he actually shows that SP is next to only thing that actually matters. afkalt wrote:In game where experience comes with time and so do SP independent of activity, it is hardly a shock, is it? The only experience part in his play is learning to chose low SP targets in a ship they can't reliably fly. afkalt wrote:And no experience lets him "carefully pick targets under 50m SP"...that's ludicrous to even suggest he knows how many skills or where they are spent a pilot has. It really is not that hard. afkalt wrote:My booster pilot has 27m skill points and most of those are in LD but I absolutely would take the pepsi challenge with him against a 50m pilot in a heartbeat. And prove my point by losing.
No he's not. He's picking ships he can fight and kill based on their visible fittings and hull choice. He's using experience, not skillpoint fuckery.
You, like a great great many people, put far too much stock in "high SP = win". You have a case given equal skill and solo, but that is so rare as to barely even be relevant. Implants/drugs would make a bigger difference.
Furthermore, should a pilot specialize then the SP "level" is essentially meaningless. If I fight a guy when I'm flying a caracal, my however many millions of SP in guns, spaceship command mean exactly nothing.
It is a mistake a great many, heck I venture most people, make at one time or another so I am not surprised that it is oft repeated; but high SP are not required to partake in PvP. The barrier for solo is marginally higher I'll freely admit, but as a fleet it's absolutely not. No, brave newbie #45714 doesn't get to be the guy in the sleipnir, with CS V chainsawing through the other fleet - what is is is support, or fast tackle enabling that fight to even happen in the first place, or keeping the sleip alive.
SPs are no barrier to PvP content, the biggest barrier is peoples own fear, their own unwillingness to even try.
The best place to learn this is not higsec, PvP there is abysmal, but get yourself into a decent low sec/NPC 0.0 outfit and learn the ropes of small gang work. I'd avoid sov 0.0 as the combat there is quite different a lot of the time, but FW, NPC 0.0 regularly have nice small roaming gangs you can fly with, contribute meaningfully to and kill stuff. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 10:10:23 -
[55] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Wrong. If you aren't being deliberately obtuse, then you're just too dumb to understand it. Aside from obviously being right, yes, it was an intended pin in your tuches.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Do I really have to explain to you that not playing the game does not constitute having taken any action in your own defense? Within current mechanics, this is one of the best defensive options available to the receiving end of a grief dec. If you remain active, obviously watchlisted by grief deccer, odds of being followed around, grief decced again in new corp, or otherwise being subjected to harassment is high. Being inactive may convince the attacker to find another target to grief, and that makes it one of the best. So, unfortunately, you have to explain why do you think one of the best defensive options is not defensive enough.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Are you really that dense? (don't answer that, I already know you are. You're the numbskull that tried to convince a bunch of newbies that docking was griefing for crying out loud) I didn't need to convince anyone on the side of the obvious. We can do that tango again if you wish. At the moment, you were crying about dodging being an exploit, but attacker dodging somehow you were denying to be the exploit. You can't have your cake and eat it - either the dodging is an exploit and attacker is exploiting just as defender does, or neither are exploits. Considering you switched from crying about corp dropping to encouraging it as the highest defensive measure, I believe you've came to terms with the latter and it's no longer an issue on your double standards sheet.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:There are no griefers in wardecs. It is totally in favor of the aggressors, however. If you are still in a player corp, then you have not made a reasonable effort. The definition of "reasonable effort", one contradiction-free portion please, no salt. The above was a joke, but there is no denying that your "effort" grade still have gaps, and also no denying your waiter-level argumentation deficiency. Oops, you were making an effort and I spoiled it, I am sorry.
Quote: It is clear enough that grief deccing is a violation of ToS I and there is no excuse to it according to ToS IV.
There is no such thing. Wardecs are never griefing. [/quote]
ToS I and IV quite clearly spell otherwise. So here we go again: Wardecs are never griefing despite falling into griefing category according to ToS, because... ? |
Iain Cariaba
2080
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 10:13:54 -
[56] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:afkalt wrote:No, what he's showing is SP matters not a jot but experience is the case. By carefully choosing low SP targets he actually shows that SP is next to only thing that actually matters. This is complete and utter bullshit. I'll use myself as an example.
~65mil SP Perfect gunnery support skills. Perfect missile support skills. Perfect drone skills, except for fighters. Perfect core skills. With the exception of Amarr and Minmatar t2 battleships, there isn't a subcap in the game I can't fly.
With all that, every single time I go roaming lowsec for solo PvP, I get my ass handed to me by people who have only been in the game for a few months. Why? Because I learned PvP out in nullsec with the big sov blocks. I do well in small to large fleets, but I never really learned solo PvP, so I suck at it. I've lost t2 fit pirate frigs to t1 fit t1 frigs because the 6 month old character flying it knew more about solo PvP than I do.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15291
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 10:17:42 -
[57] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:You can't have your cake and eat it - either the dodging is an exploit and attacker is exploiting just as defender does, or neither are exploits.
Dec dodging should be an exploit.
And if you don't want to deal with wars, you don't belong in a player corp.
The two are not contradictory.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 10:29:26 -
[58] - Quote
afkalt wrote:No he's not. He's picking ships he can fight and kill based on their visible fittings and hull choice. He's using experience, not skillpoint fuckery. He obviously is.
afkalt wrote:You, like a great great many people, put far too much stock in "high SP = win". You have a case given equal skill and solo, but that is so rare as to barely even be relevant. Implants/drugs would make a bigger difference. SP is required to use implants, not to mention wallet. For even the lowest of specialization skills, 1 extra level is a built-in 2% implant. Thus SP beats implants easily - you can have only 10 implants, but there's a lot more than 10 relevant skills. In the end, NOTHING makes more difference than the ultimate force multiplier of eve universe - SP. Not even wallet.
afkalt wrote:Furthermore, should a pilot specialize then the SP "level" is essentially meaningless. If I fight a guy when I'm flying a caracal, my however many millions of SP in guns, spaceship command mean exactly nothing. You are able to pilot a ship which reliably counters whatever the specialized guy brings. If you got caught in a wrong ship, this is effectively you self-destructing where he just happened to be there, where everyone in comparable ship could've been in his place. It's your loss, but not his win.
afkalt wrote:It is a mistake a great many, heck I venture most people, make at one time or another so I am not surprised that it is oft repeated; but high SP are not required to partake in PvP. The barrier for solo is marginally higher I'll freely admit, but as a fleet it's absolutely not. No, brave newbie #45714 doesn't get to be the guy in the sleipnir, with CS V chainsawing through the other fleet - what is is is support, or fast tackle enabling that fight to even happen in the first place, or keeping the sleip alive. High SP is not a requirement to participate, it is a requirement to actually kill anyone. If you're fine participating as a free target due to SP deficiency, fine, do that, however, once again, as stated by CCP kills presentation, the struggle to kill anyone who is above the SP wall will prove near-impossible. The brave newbie #45714's fleet participation of a juicy bait to "pro" killboard targets which can tell a free kill by seeing his age is a participation too, I guess.
afkalt wrote:SPs are no barrier to PvP content, the biggest barrier is peoples own fear, their own unwillingness to even try.
The best place to learn this is not higsec, PvP there is abysmal, but get yourself into a decent low sec/NPC 0.0 outfit and learn the ropes of small gang work. I'd avoid sov 0.0 as the combat there is quite different a lot of the time, but FW, NPC 0.0 regularly have nice small roaming gangs you can fly with, contribute meaningfully to and kill stuff. The biggest barrier to PvP content is overcoming the crucifying pain of being hit with the SP wall, when you realize there are years before you will become anything bigger than a free target. The hisec has more kills than any other area - the leet hisec peeveepeer like Kaarous here surely can tell you why - it's because this is the best place for a high SP toon to be farming low SP toons who have no chance to fight back due to SP deficiency. Sov 0.0 combat is now the great place for a 50 million SP starter-level pvp players, as fights for nodes are done in small mobile ships, in what is close to a small gang format. Oh I bet a bittervet like yourself would love to see more newbro roams of free kills available, so it comes at no surprise that you would encourage them. For newbies it surely will be a horrible experience of being hit by SP wall of yours right in the face, but I guess it doesn't matter to you. You'll make Kaarous-level excuses by stating that stepping out to lowsec they have made themselves targets and if not you someone else would slap them with SP wall in the face, but in the end, you'll just farm them for pleasure and tears and there's nothing they can do until SP wall is crossed, at which point all leet peeveepeers would start avoiding them. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 10:35:06 -
[59] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dec dodging should be an exploit. Because your bladder content infused intracranial cabbage is acting up again, or... because?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And if you don't want to deal with wars, you don't belong in a player corp. Contradictory with the previous statement. You are confused. Either you claim an exploit, then I point out your double-standards again, or you encourage it again, in which case I keep mocking you for 180 degree turn. Unless you go back to exploit song which makes your turn 360 degrees and adds extra space hilarity as you don't even know what are you claiming anymore.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:The two are not contradictory. The one is self-contradictory, because attacker dodging of his own dec must then be an exploit also, or neither must be an exploit.
As expected, instead of being constructive, you jumped into the old dance again, where you have been had thousands of times, but just want another go... inb4 lock. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15291
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 10:36:04 -
[60] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: The biggest barrier to PvP content is overcoming the crucifying pain of being hit with the SP wall
Which doesn't exist.
So the biggest barrier to PvP content for new players is overcoming poisonous, bullshit attitudes like yours.
Like I said before, it's carebears like you who are the real griefers, trying to force new players to mine for months before they actually play the real game.
Pathetic.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2735
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:00:20 -
[61] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: Contradictory with the previous statement. You are confused. Either you claim an exploit, then I point out your double-standards again, or you encourage it again, in which case I keep mocking you for 180 degree turn. Unless you go back to exploit song which makes your turn 360 degrees and adds extra space hilarity as you don't even know what are you claiming anymore. .
Much as I regularly disagree with Kaarous, and in fact disagree with him over his views on wars, he is not taking a 180 turn. He is saying that repeatedly rolling a new player corp to dec dodge is bad. (To me it's forced on people by bad game design and should be solved by fixing said bad game design). He is then saying that if you don't like having a war declared on you while you are in a player corp, you should drop to your NPC corp and stay there.
These are not contradictory statements or double standards.
Also while I no longer have the link due to new computer, CCP at one stage said moving 5+ systems and changing corps was potentially considered reasonable effort to evade an aggressor in high sec. As at that point you aren't in their immediate operational vicinity or the original corp that was their target. I'd note that I'd read that as changing from corp A to corp B. Not closing corp A and opening identical corp B. Exact circumstances obviously vary, and if you smack talk them or taunt them about having run away, you are going to be considered fair game as a result.
Finally, there is no SP wall for PvP. Even as a 'non' PvPer I say this ('non' meaning I do PvP occasionally but I much prefer the co-op experience, so will never chose to solo PvP, preferring fleets in some kind of support role). What you have to do is fly appropriate to your skills and wallet. And engage appropriate targets to match. CCP have done amazing things with making T1 frigates viable, and are working hard at continuing that, by doing things like making Capitals no longer Ewar immune any more. It's virtually no time to train into a T1 cruiser even, and those are even more amazing (Yay cruisers online!). For example, the main doctrine one of the groups investigating fighting drifters is using is entirely based on T1 cruisers, and currently does not have specific skill requirements for their fleets either. |
Iain Cariaba
2081
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:43:52 -
[62] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:...endless blathering whine... If you're so adamant that SP is the end all, be all to determine who wins in PvP, then answer me this:
Why does my 69,236,135 skill points not guarantee my victory against people who have been playing for less than a year? I'm obviously over that ludicrous 50mil sp barrier you imagine you need for PvP, so why do I lose when I roam solo?
Using your logic, I should win every single fight I get into with the people who run the small FW sites I hunt in, yet I do not.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15293
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:47:14 -
[63] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote: Using your logic
Something I don't recommend by the way, unless you have spare brain cells to replace the ones that will die of shock.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:56:09 -
[64] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:If you're so adamant that SP is the end all, be all to determine who wins in PvP, then answer me this:
Why does my 69,236,135 skill points not guarantee my victory against people who have been playing for less than a year? I'm obviously over that ludicrous 50mil sp barrier you imagine you need for PvP, so why do I lose when I roam solo?
Using your logic, I should win every single fight I get into with the people who run the small FW sites I hunt in, yet I do not.
There are 3 exceptions which I call "SP wall leaping mechanics": 1) You are in a fleet that is over SP wall. The fleet just takes you in out of pity and will function equally well without you, so anyone can be in your place, which makes you personally still irrelevant, but able to be on a killmail of higher SP character which qualifies for an exception. 2) You blob of newbs has more total SP than the enemy. You're likely to lose the ISK war very very very badly in this scenario, but it's possible to get kills of higher SP characters that way, thus an exception. 3) The high SP guy self-destructed by doing something stupid. Like being caught in an inappropriate ship, having a brain fart and messing up, etc. But this is his loss and not your win, he just happened to self-destruct and you just happened to be there. There could be anyone witnessing his self-destruction, which makes you irrelevant, but still generates a killmail, and thus qualifies as an exception.
Outside of those exceptions you will always win. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2482
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:58:23 -
[65] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:...endless blathering whine... If you're so adamant that SP is the end all, be all to determine who wins in PvP, then answer me this: Why does my 69,236,135 skill points not guarantee my victory against people who have been playing for less than a year? I'm obviously over that ludicrous 50mil sp barrier you imagine you need for PvP, so why do I lose when I roam solo? Using your logic, I should win every single fight I get into with the people who run the small FW sites I hunt in, yet I do not.
It's like talking to the wall mate, SP > all.
Apparently.
I mean, I've literally never seen such crap in my life and it's even more blindingly obvious that even posters who butt heads and fight constantly are all in alignment here that it's a non-problem. That's a sign right there. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15293
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 11:59:49 -
[66] - Quote
Did anyone see him contradict his own claims in every paragraph? I feel an equal mixture of shock, amusement and disgust. I call this feeling "Basil'ed", a portmanteau of "baffled, sickened, and chuckled."
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3979
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote: Outside of those exceptions you will always win.
So if I fit up a svipul right now and went to FW space, are you saying that as I have over 100mil SP, I would kill everybody that I came into contact with?
Because usually I die to the first real opposition I meet and kill maybe a farmer or two on the way, if I'm lucky... |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:10:59 -
[68] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Orca Platypus wrote: Outside of those exceptions you will always win.
So if I fit up a svipul right now and went to FW space, are you saying that as I have over 100mil SP, I would kill everybody that I came into contact with? Because usually I die to the first real opposition I meet and kill maybe a farmer or two on the way, if I'm lucky...
Gewnie in lowsec = classic example of exception #3. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:12:44 -
[69] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:...endless blathering whine... If you're so adamant that SP is the end all, be all to determine who wins in PvP, then answer me this: Why does my 69,236,135 skill points not guarantee my victory against people who have been playing for less than a year? I'm obviously over that ludicrous 50mil sp barrier you imagine you need for PvP, so why do I lose when I roam solo? Using your logic, I should win every single fight I get into with the people who run the small FW sites I hunt in, yet I do not. It's like talking to the wall mate, SP > all. Apparently. I mean, I've literally never seen such crap in my life and it's even more blindingly obvious that even posters who butt heads and fight constantly are all in alignment here that it's a non-problem. That's a sign right there.
Surprise, surprise: Bittervets who want to farm newbies are in alignment. It is a sign indeed, of bittervetting over the fact that every leet peeveepeer sees you're above the SP wall and avoids you, because he doesn't want to lose on account of lack of SP. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15293
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:14:35 -
[70] - Quote
I've actually seen the subreddit simulator on r/eve make more sense than Basil.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3981
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:26:42 -
[71] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Orca Platypus wrote: Outside of those exceptions you will always win.
So if I fit up a svipul right now and went to FW space, are you saying that as I have over 100mil SP, I would kill everybody that I came into contact with? Because usually I die to the first real opposition I meet and kill maybe a farmer or two on the way, if I'm lucky... Gewnie in lowsec = classic example of exception #3.
Your goalpsts are moving.
How is my alliance in any way relevant? If I had gone into lowsec a year ago (before I joineed CONDI), would I have killed everyone I came into contact with?
Hell. I'm on 124mil SP at the moment. If I go wandering around in a frigate, how much of that SP is actually useful? (Hint: The answer is 'not much'.) |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:35:17 -
[72] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Your goalpsts are moving. No they aren't.
Danika Princip wrote:How is my alliance in any way relevant? If I had gone into lowsec a year ago (before I joineed CONDI), would I have killed everyone I came into contact with? Group enforcement of self-destructive principles. See the medium shield booster carriers laughingstock for example.
Danika Princip wrote:Hell. I'm on 124mil SP at the moment. If I go wandering around in a frigate, how much of that SP is actually useful? (Hint: The answer is 'not much'.) You seem to start getting the point of "being caught in the inappropriate ship" part of #3. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:38:34 -
[73] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I've actually seen the subreddit simulator on r/eve make more sense than Basil. "I couldn't put sense into a fool's brain if I tried." (c) Nero Wolfe. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15294
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:47:45 -
[74] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I've actually seen the subreddit simulator on r/eve make more sense than Basil. "I couldn't put sense into a fool's brain if I tried." (c) Nero Wolfe.
Oh, the irony.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:50:15 -
[75] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I've actually seen the subreddit simulator on r/eve make more sense than Basil. "I couldn't put sense into a fool's brain if I tried." (c) Nero Wolfe. Oh, the irony. If only you were equipped to appreciate it, but mother nature took a rest on your fateful day. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3981
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 12:54:57 -
[76] - Quote
How is a frigate an inappropriate ship for wandering around faction warfare space?
And you do know those MSB carriers are designed for one purpose, ratting while being immune to solo/microgang roamers, which they do very well, right?
And you didn't answer my question. If I went lowsec roaming before I joined goonwaffe, would I have killed everyone I came into contact with, whilst dying if I tried it now based on nothing but my corp ticker? |
Azrael Hyabusa
Senex Legio The OSS
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:05:18 -
[77] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:afkalt wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:...endless blathering whine... If you're so adamant that SP is the end all, be all to determine who wins in PvP, then answer me this: Why does my 69,236,135 skill points not guarantee my victory against people who have been playing for less than a year? I'm obviously over that ludicrous 50mil sp barrier you imagine you need for PvP, so why do I lose when I roam solo? Using your logic, I should win every single fight I get into with the people who run the small FW sites I hunt in, yet I do not. It's like talking to the wall mate, SP > all. Apparently. I mean, I've literally never seen such crap in my life and it's even more blindingly obvious that even posters who butt heads and fight constantly are all in alignment here that it's a non-problem. That's a sign right there. Surprise, surprise: Bittervets who want to farm newbies are in alignment. It is a sign indeed, of bittervetting over the fact that every leet peeveepeer sees you're above the SP wall and avoids you, because he doesn't want to lose on account of lack of SP.
I don't know about anyone else but I don't want to farm newbros. I want people in my fleets running tackle, running ewar, running T1 logi. Getting excited at making a difference. Enjoying the thrill of landing the scram on the fleeing machariel/cynabal/ONI desperately trying to climb to freedom. The excitement in their voices is genuinely priceless and irreplaceable. As you grow longer in the tooth, that fades and it's a shame.
No-one here is bitter, except maybe you and all because of some psychological "wall" you let cripple you.
I bet you can fly a T1/pirate frigate at 100% perfect skills for change out of 10 million SPs. At that point, the difference between you and a 200m SP player is exactly 0.00000%.
People want fun, however the more people spout garbage (need absurd SP to even play, lowsec is insta death etc etc etc) the harder that gets to come by because it's repeated over and over. Rookie help is the freakin' worst.
People put far too much stock in not losing some T1 frigate over having fun and learning. I've said before on these boards and I'll say it again, the BEST fights I've ever been in were ones where we KNEW we would die, we just wanted to go down swinging and take people with us. Utterly glorious.
People seem to take "don't fly what you cant replace" and mentally convert that to "don't fly if you might lose the ship, no matter how cheap". It is a real shame. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2483
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:12:51 -
[78] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:How is a frigate an inappropriate ship for wandering around faction warfare space? And you do know those MSB carriers are designed for one purpose, ratting while being immune to solo/microgang roamers, which they do very well, right? And you didn't answer my question. If I went lowsec roaming before I joined goonwaffe, would I have killed everyone I came into contact with, whilst dying if I tried it now based on nothing but my corp ticker?
Because it is obviously impossible
I mean this guy had been PVPing for 2 years more than the other guy and lost. Clearly his T1 cruiser was "inappropriate" to fight the other guys T1 cruiser. Or something.
Yes, it's a singularly impossible event and I sincerely hope the loser here petitioned CCP for the obvious and clear hacks employed by the opponent to circumnavigate the enforced "SP wall".
Whilst we're at it, let's talk about the alliance tournament and why it is that the oldest players regularly lose there. Clearly there is something wrong here.
Honestly it's quite pathetic and viewpoints like this just turn people off from even trying new things. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:19:30 -
[79] - Quote
Azrael Hyabusa wrote:I don't know about anyone else but I don't want to farm newbros. I want people in my fleets running tackle, running ewar, running T1 logi. Getting excited at making a difference. Enjoying the thrill of landing the scram on the fleeing machariel/cynabal/ONI desperately trying to climb to freedom. The excitement in their voices is genuinely priceless and irreplaceable. As you grow longer in the tooth, that fades and it's a shame. The eve pvp is fundamentally unexciting. Some assets get on grid. Some numbers are tossed. Some assets disappear. Yawn. It is literally only done for tears. Tears is what excite you and likes of you, you only have trouble admitting it, trying to rationalize it as something else.
Azrael Hyabusa wrote:No-one here is bitter, except maybe you and all because of some psychological "wall" you let cripple you. Yeah, sure, all this newbie farmer wannabe fest is just here for social gathering, uhm, no?
Azrael Hyabusa wrote:I bet you can fly a T1/pirate frigate at 100% perfect skills for change out of 10 million SPs. At that point, the difference between you and a 200m SP player is exactly 0.00000%. He's in svipul. You died.
Azrael Hyabusa wrote:People want fun, however the more people spout garbage (need absurd SP to even play, lowsec is insta death etc etc etc) the harder that gets to come by because it's repeated over and over. Rookie help is the freakin' worst. Unless they can have fun being free kills for bittervets, it has to wait until 50 million SP.
Azrael Hyabusa wrote:People put far too much stock in not losing some T1 frigate over having fun and learning. I've said before on these boards and I'll say it again, the BEST fights I've ever been in were ones where we KNEW we would die, we just wanted to go down swinging and take people with us. Utterly glorious.
People seem to take "don't fly what you cant replace" and mentally convert that to "don't fly if you might lose the ship, no matter how cheap". It is a real shame. Being free kill is not fun. It is indeed learning to know your place behind the SP wall, that is undeniable. There is a thing called Norepinephrine addiction. It's a hormone which makes you feel good when overcoming the odds against you. It has a widespread usage in gaming to tickle norepinephrine addicts into believing the odds were against them to let them have their kicks, while the odds was never against them. If you expected to lose and won, you failed the appraisal of the enemy and it's utterly ********, unless you're a norepinephrine addict and that failure was exactly what your pleasure-seeking behavior led you to. Brainhex study revealed that no more than half of gamers are norepinephrine addicts, so maybe it helps to know that at least half of us do not share your definition of fun/pleasure. |
Azrael Hyabusa
Senex Legio The OSS
1
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:35:08 -
[80] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:Azrael Hyabusa wrote:I don't know about anyone else but I don't want to farm newbros. I want people in my fleets running tackle, running ewar, running T1 logi. Getting excited at making a difference. Enjoying the thrill of landing the scram on the fleeing machariel/cynabal/ONI desperately trying to climb to freedom. The excitement in their voices is genuinely priceless and irreplaceable. As you grow longer in the tooth, that fades and it's a shame. The eve pvp is fundamentally unexciting. Some assets get on grid. Some numbers are tossed. Some assets disappear. Yawn. It is literally only done for tears. Tears is what excite you and likes of you, you only have trouble admitting it, trying to rationalize it as something else.
I stopped reading here because everything which follows cannot be valid given that unbelievable statement.
No bloody wonder the devs don't stick a big toe in here when it's filled with shite like this. |
|
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 13:49:29 -
[81] - Quote
Azrael Hyabusa wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:Azrael Hyabusa wrote:I don't know about anyone else but I don't want to farm newbros. I want people in my fleets running tackle, running ewar, running T1 logi. Getting excited at making a difference. Enjoying the thrill of landing the scram on the fleeing machariel/cynabal/ONI desperately trying to climb to freedom. The excitement in their voices is genuinely priceless and irreplaceable. As you grow longer in the tooth, that fades and it's a shame. The eve pvp is fundamentally unexciting. Some assets get on grid. Some numbers are tossed. Some assets disappear. Yawn. It is literally only done for tears. Tears is what excite you and likes of you, you only have trouble admitting it, trying to rationalize it as something else. I stopped reading here because everything which follows cannot be valid given that unbelievable statement. No bloody wonder the devs don't stick a big toe in here when it's filled with shite like this.
I'm sorry truth hurt you so much. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
666
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 14:01:02 -
[82] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:If only it hadn't already been conclusively shown to us that non consensual PvP has a hugely positive effect on retention. Ah the tired old mistaken interpretation you strut out every time one of these debates comes up. CCP has NEVER stated that PvP is hugely positive to player retention, they have repeated stated that the social aspects of the game have a positive a impact on player retention so enough of this. And yes these social aspects can and do occur outside of the PvP(shoot other players) aspect of the game. CCP has never stated that being shot is a positive anyway, they have only stated that being shot is not a major factor in player retention. But then that works both ways so in reality that statement from CCP is actually neutral it does not prove that being shot is good for retention and it does not prove that being shot is bad for retention.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Wardecs are never griefing, harassment, or whatever other tearful bullshit you come up with. If you cannot deal with wars, stop being in a player corp. So long as that option exists at all, you don't have a leg to stand on. And another of your typical comments. I do agree with you that the average war dec filed would not meet the requirements to be considered griefing but that does not mean that war decs CAN NEVER BE griefing. And the answer is still NO I cannot and will not post my proof of this because I will not purposely violate the TOS to prove a point with you.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Repeatedly rerolling corps was an exploit for a long time. I believe it should be again. Funny I have been in the game since 2009 and rolling corps to avoid a war dec has never been a problem with CCP in all that time. So perhaps you have some evidence that you can (are allowed to) post that proves this. OR alternatively you could perhaps give us a point in time when rolling corps was considered and exploit.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It's a matter of GM opinion only. Not yours, certainly. Turning this around it is certainly not your opinion that matters either, at least no more or no less than anyone else's.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
15295
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 14:06:12 -
[83] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:And the answer is still NO I cannot and will not post my proof of this because I will not purposely violate the TOS to prove a point with you.
Ah yes, your tired old bullshit.
You have no proof. None. That's why you cringe behind the forum rules about it. The truth is available for any who want it, though, a ticket is free. I encourage anyone who cares to do so.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Azrael Hyabusa
Senex Legio The OSS
1
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 14:08:03 -
[84] - Quote
No. It's because you're talking utter garbage. It's like arguing with a kids who can only reply with "nu-uh".
- You are assuming that you speak for tens of thousands of players. You do not.
- You are assuming I have some ulterior motivations. I do not and given my corp has the heady heights of a 5m SP entry barrier that rather undermines your point anyway.
- You are sat in a PvP game, crying about PvP. It's ludicrous.
- People from all walks of eve are trying to show you where you made the mistake and you're wandering about with your fingers in your ears going "nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh"
- You are not interested in reasoned debate, you cannot counter any arguments at all save by ignoring them or moving the goal posts; all you have any interest in doing is further repeating the same lie - that PvP is effectively impossible before 50 million SPs.
And you wonder why I'm done with you?
You're flat out calling me a liar when you know nothing about me, how or who I fly with and the types of activities we find fun.
So yes, I'm done with you because there is no rational discussion to be had; you are a zealot, a lunatic clinging to a fundamentally incorrect belief set and not even open minded enough to consider that maybe, just maybe, your narrow viewpoint does not represent even the majority of eve players.
It's been demonstrated in this very thread on several occasions that your assertions are false, but that matters littel, you don't care and the dogma keeps on coming.
I'd be as well trying to talk a moth out of flying towards the light. |
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 14:16:59 -
[85] - Quote
Azrael Hyabusa wrote:
- You are assuming that you speak for tens of thousands of players. You do not.
- You are assuming I have some ulterior motivations. I do not and given my corp has the heady heights of a 5m SP entry barrier that rather undermines your point anyway.
- You are sat in a PvP game, crying about PvP. It's ludicrous.
- People from all walks of eve are trying to show you where you made the mistake and you're wandering about with your fingers in your ears going "nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh nu-uh"
- You are not interested in reasoned debate, you cannot counter any arguments at all save by ignoring them or moving the goal posts; all you have any interest in doing is further repeating the same lie - that PvP is effectively impossible before 50 million SPs.
And you wonder why I'm done with you? You're flat out calling me a liar when you know nothing about me, how or who I fly with and the types of activities we find fun. So yes, I'm done with you because there is no rational discussion to be had; you are a zealot, a lunatic clinging to a fundamentally incorrect belief set and not even open minded enough to consider that maybe, just maybe, your narrow viewpoint does not represent even the majority of eve players. It's been demonstrated in this very thread on several occasions that your assertions are false, but that matters littel, you don't care and the dogma keeps on coming. I'd be as well trying to talk a moth out of flying towards the light.
I am assuming that I speak for everyone who raised a hand when on presentation Kaarous misunderstands people were asked if they think newbie ganking is a problem. It was immediately extrapolated from newbie to everyone, from ganking to all non-consensual pvp, and from CCP's "we have no evidence it is a problem" (despite half the present people raising hand saying it is one) it became first "it is not a problem" and gradually degraded in their failing brain to "it is actually beneficial".
You, and every newbie farmer there is, has an ulterior motive in wishing for more free targets.
I am in a sandbox game, arguing about a dated, unbalanced and generally poor mechanics, which happens to be related to a boring part of sandbox known as pvp.
People from only bittervet section of eve are on the other side. Nobody else is.
"Ignoring" says the guy who "stopped reading" my post because truth hurt him too much. Who's ignoring, mate?
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
67
|
Posted - 2015.11.30 14:31:40 -
[86] - Quote
To prevent further degradation and trolling, I am locking this thread.
ISD Max Trix
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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