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Kiyano
Caldari Star Fraction Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 00:55:00 -
[1]
So i've been hearing a lot about this and i've seen a fair few people say they don't like it or it shouldn't be added. I've not however seen a single reason for this. I myself don't know exactly how it will be implimented so i'll reserve judgement until there is at least a working model for it.
Those of you who don't like it, care to explain some of your reasoning? I mean my first thought was, to those who dislike the increase in fight time, the heat element would only serve to speed up the fight if used correctly... meh, discuss.
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smashsmash
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Posted - 2007.01.11 00:56:00 -
[2]
cold > heat ---- Would you like some cries with your whaaamburger? |
Kiyano
Caldari Star Fraction Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 00:57:00 -
[3]
Originally by: smashsmash cold > heat
When it comes to the weather i'd agree with you, but when it comes to the game I wanna hear reasons
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Kadreal
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:02:00 -
[4]
People don't need more of a reason to use hammerhead 2s, thermal damage ftl
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Zaribeth
Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:03:00 -
[5]
more ways to kill people faster in fleet battles are welcome. Would decrease killing time from 10sec to 5sec... I dont like the heat system they are talking about developing for eve. i say fix the other problems with combat first then if the comunity wants it, implement the heat system :) -------FIX-------
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Noeken Logican
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:16:00 -
[6]
I'm a pod pilot. That means I'm the best of the best. Therfore, when I step in the pod, and everything gets hooked in, my modules and all should already be optimally maximized for the greatest damage/effect, and my crew is there to deal with the heat.
Also, it would add lag.
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Serendipity007
Caldari X.T.R Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:20:00 -
[7]
IMHO, heat should never be a problem in the cold vaccum of space. Heat-based features should be reserved for the Mechwarrior universe and their mechs.
Any ship that operated in space away from any star could very easily vent any heat out into space.
However, a "power-diversion" mechanic could be used. IE: Redirect power from your afterburner to your launchers for a temporary boost in refire rate at a cost of top AB speed, and a chance to damage the launcher.
But I agree, fix drones and other combat systems before you add more. ___________________________________________________ "I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!" - Scotty, Star Trek: The Original Series |
Sovy Kurosei
Amarr Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:22:00 -
[8]
Would this be analogous to how it is done in Freespace 2 where you can give more power to your shields or to your weapons or to your engines? That might not be as bad but would it be another variable to deal with and balance in Eve. ___________________
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 11/01/2007 01:36:12
Originally by: Sovy Kurosei That might not be as bad but would it be another variable to deal with and balance in Eve.
That's both the appeal for me and the problem. I love the idea of being able to manage combat more in EVE, but at the same time it sounds very challenging to balance.
I'd be more trusting if it had seemed like rigs and boosters were introduced in a more finished way.
Anyway, I'm definitely reserving judgement, but that's probably a concern a lot of people share.
Quote: cold > heat
Actually cold doesn't exist--it's all just varying amounts of heat from zero on up. So throw away your sweaters. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Nex Angelus
Caldari Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.01.11 01:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Serendipity007 IMHO, heat should never be a problem in the cold vaccum of space. Heat-based features should be reserved for the Mechwarrior universe and their mechs.
Any ship that operated in space away from any star could very easily vent any heat out into space.
However, a "power-diversion" mechanic could be used. IE: Redirect power from your afterburner to your launchers for a temporary boost in refire rate at a cost of top AB speed, and a chance to damage the launcher.
But I agree, fix drones and other combat systems before you add more.
Actually you are wrong. Cooling a spacecraft is one of the harder things to do.
You see, to cool a body fast you have a medium that can absorb the heat, and in space (vaccum) there is, well almost nothing. So the only way for the heat to escape is through radiation, and that's not very effective.
Compare space to a thermos, and we all know where the coffee remains hot and where it doesn't, right!
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Kiyano
Caldari Star Fraction Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 02:39:00 -
[11]
Right well assuming that CCP can't have 100% of their staff working on fixing issues, and that they have people who spend a great deal of their time designing new stuff/ideas and that when they're not doing that they wouldn't be best suited for bug fixing, the reason "fix bugs first" i don't consider a good enough reason.
As for lag, i fail to see how this would add much lag and it certainly pales in comparrison to the load taken off the server with 90% reduction in NPC amounts etc.
As far as i see it, this *could* be a potential way of sorting a whole bunch of racial balance issues. Still waiting for a solid reason
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Aaron Static
Igneus Auctorita
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Posted - 2007.01.11 04:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Serendipity007 IMHO, heat should never be a problem in the cold vaccum of space. Heat-based features should be reserved for the Mechwarrior universe and their mechs.
Any ship that operated in space away from any star could very easily vent any heat out into space.
However, a "power-diversion" mechanic could be used. IE: Redirect power from your afterburner to your launchers for a temporary boost in refire rate at a cost of top AB speed, and a chance to damage the launcher.
But I agree, fix drones and other combat systems before you add more.
Physics has no place in eve. It's way too scientific.
Otherwise BoB would have to chase POSs down as they orbit a moon instead of them jus floatin' around
- Igneus Auctorita Video - |
Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.01.11 05:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Serendipity007 IMHO, heat should never be a problem in the cold vaccum of space.
Vacuums make excellent insulators.
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Komen
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:17:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Komen on 11/01/2007 06:22:17 Space is a fun place. In direct sunlight, yes, heat is hard to get rid of...the answer for spacecraft is to have heatsinks that get very, very hot to radiate heat energy (inefficient but at high temperatures, effective). When out of direct sunlight, however, it gets very, very cold, and keeping astronauts warm becomes a very big challenge, when they go on spacewalks. hence 'spacesuits' actually have to be man-shaped refrigerators (in sunlight) and man-shaped furnaces (out of sunlight) It's not quite that simple...oh...where's that link?
Quick and dirty on space suits
/edit:
Though thinking on this, though...spaceships in Eve must throw a LOT of heat out their backends, with those thrusters. Really, I'm hoping 'heat' is a codename for this, like 'Kali' was the codename for Revelations. Power distribution, or something like that, would make sense.
Then again, my ship's velocity equals its thrust, it 'rights itself' if it ever flies upside down, and banks to turn.
So screw the physics, whatever. Power boosting, heat, or telling the gerbils to run faster. Whatever. ___________________________________
Wielder of the Trout of Doom(tm)! ___________________________________ |
Joskken Inx
J.H.E.N.R Pure.
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Posted - 2007.01.11 06:23:00 -
[15]
Heat has the best shootout ever
Other than that, need more info
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kiyano Right well assuming that CCP can't have 100% of their staff working on fixing issues, and that they have people who spend a great deal of their time designing new stuff/ideas and that when they're not doing that they wouldn't be best suited for bug fixing, the reason "fix bugs first" i don't consider a good enough reason.
As for lag, i fail to see how this would add much lag and it certainly pales in comparrison to the load taken off the server with 90% reduction in NPC amounts etc.
As far as i see it, this *could* be a potential way of sorting a whole bunch of racial balance issues. Still waiting for a solid reason
You're not going to get a "solid reason" until we get some solid information. OTOH, there's no reason to be more than cautiously optimistic until we get some solid information either. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Zeko Rena
Caldari Tangent Technologies
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:29:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Zeko Rena on 11/01/2007 07:27:54 Surely a spaceship can just vent the hot air into space... and surely there is no risk of fire since theres no air to actully fuel the fire unless its in the*****pit which there isnt on EVE anyway
You remind me of the babe, what babe, babe with the power, what power, power of voodoo, who do, you do, do what, remi |
Anatolius
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zaribeth more ways to kill people faster in fleet battles are welcome. Would decrease killing time from 10sec to 5sec... I dont like the heat system they are talking about developing for eve. i say fix the other problems with combat first then if the comunity wants it, implement the heat system :)
Well, the grand development campaign is currently all about lengthening combat. See the hit point changes. I wouldn't look for combat to be made shorter any time soon. I believe the official word is, less pew pew pew, more pew pew *think* *fiddle* pew.
I myself am not looking forward to any heat system. I've played Mechwarrior, I can only imagine what horrible penalties would be levied against my lasers in terms of heat.
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Gone'Postal
Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:35:00 -
[19]
Every combat i've been in on eve ended with either a
client crash due to insane lag in fleet's. The kind of fight where you sit back and have a smoke waiting for the client to say... Oh yeah your pod did warp to the POS... didn't you have a ship ? or the kind that end's with.... "Quick BBQThatSoloCruiserMiner"
How does advanced heat help ?
Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to. |
Aiyleena Iluvatar
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:41:00 -
[20]
hm vent hot air into space... nice idea. but from where do i get my cold air back?? ever tryed to put a thermos flask in a icebox and hope to cool your coffee down
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Rakeris
Legio VIII
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Posted - 2007.01.11 07:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sovy Kurosei Would this be analogous to how it is done in Freespace 2 where you can give more power to your shields or to your weapons or to your engines? That might not be as bad but would it be another variable to deal with and balance in Eve.
Ah, yes I remember that. (I love that game, still have it too, haven't played it in ages though)
I don't see much of a reason for such a system in EVE or a heat system to be honest. If anything they would need to come up with a better name. C'mon this far in the future and heat is a problem? Think they would have came up with some fancy air conditioners or something. :p
---------- I gave up on sigs. As all the beatings are starting to hurt and leave nasty bruises. |
Bohoba
Caldari Dragons United Pure.
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:16:00 -
[22]
hehe heat hum in space what is the temp in space seems it would be cold enough to cool of anything man made. unless you warp to the sun/star then I could see even taking shield and armor damage and if stay to long radiation will eat away at you OH that was EnB hehehe your ship would turn black and mods have damage to them I can see this and takes a while to ware off the radiation effects if you get hit that bad :)
Get Into the Game it makes it fun for all |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zeko Rena Edited by: Zeko Rena on 11/01/2007 07:27:54 Surely a spaceship can just vent the hot air into space... and surely there is no risk of fire since theres no air to actully fuel the fire unless its in the*****pit which there isnt on EVE anyway
The problem with that is that sooner or later you run out of air.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Shandling
Minmatar Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:11:00 -
[24]
My cat is in heat. It sucks.
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Oveur We don't want Heat to be just yet another level of complexity for new players but rather to expand functionality that is already intuitive to the more experienced players. To do that we need to make it an option for more skilled players but not to make it too powerful so less skilled pilots can still compete
and yet that is exactly what this is likely to turn into, there is talk about altering heat settings on the fly and imo unless ccp find a truly ingenious interface (not like the drone interface) for heat control this could very easily end up favouring some client setups over others or worse have people using macros to quickly reconfigure - perhaps thats a little bit OTT but not beyond the realms of posibility i dont think eve needs heat or any other way to overcharge modules at this time and it sounds a bit gimmiky
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Kiyano
Caldari Star Fraction Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Kiyano Right well assuming that CCP can't have 100% of their staff working on fixing issues, and that they have people who spend a great deal of their time designing new stuff/ideas and that when they're not doing that they wouldn't be best suited for bug fixing, the reason "fix bugs first" i don't consider a good enough reason.
As for lag, i fail to see how this would add much lag and it certainly pales in comparrison to the load taken off the server with 90% reduction in NPC amounts etc.
As far as i see it, this *could* be a potential way of sorting a whole bunch of racial balance issues. Still waiting for a solid reason
You're not going to get a "solid reason" until we get some solid information. OTOH, there's no reason to be more than cautiously optimistic until we get some solid information either.
Yes I see your point. I think we should be cautiously optimistic, but i'm looking at my UI and not really seeing any space for a new section for this so... hmm i think the implimentation of the way you change the power to modules could be more important then the actual end effect lol.
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Ikvar
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:50:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Serendipity007 Heat should never be a problem in the cold vaccum of space.
You'd think so.
Originally by: Rekindle I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything I own.
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The Judge
The Eternal Knights
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:58:00 -
[28]
I don't want this system to be implemented, however if something like this has to then i'd prefer something like being able to target different parts of the ship individually. E.g.
Target the shield, engine, armor, weapons etc and disable a certain part of the ship. Would be a popular change for pirates i would imagine. |
Alexi Borizkova
Caldari New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2007.01.11 12:38:00 -
[29]
Maybe heat will finally be something to manage with my off hand. As it is, I rarely ever use my hand except to occasionally mash function keys, which can be done while holding a soda. Maybe the heat/power management interface could be handled with the offhand somehow. of course, that kind of cancels out even pretending that eve has a chat interface useful in combat, which is what the vivox patch will "fix".
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.11 14:23:00 -
[30]
There are so many reasons to dislike it.
I guess my real reserve is along the lines of the fact that we need a limit on how far you can boost something. Tanking resistances are already stupid even without rigs. I can't even fathom how bad rigs are going to make it. Then you've got boosters and etc etc. They need to cool it for a while on anything that gives a bonus to anything at all.
I have the feeling revelations probably pushed things even more out of whack than they already were and we havn't even got a clue yet where the balance will end up. Talking about something like heat anytime in the next 6 months is pushing it.
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