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Amarr Militia: The downfall of a once great army

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Mika Snow Cyber Knights 0	Posted - 2015.11.28 22:24:00 - [1] - Quote It's with a heavy heart I say this, but the Amarr Militia is a shadow of its former self. I used to see majestic fleets comprising of lots of different capsuleers from different corporations, including the 24th Imperial Crusade, but now the majority of fleets you see are under one ticker. Currently it is ran by an alliance, Habitual Chaos, who excels in awoxing fellow militia members and outcasting anyone that is new to the Militia. This goes against the core purpose of a Militia, an army compopsed of fighters and citizens of the Empire, not to mention it ruins the experience of every capsuleer who joins. I see and talk with many capsuleers who share my point of view. My personal experience in the Militia has been nothing but atrocious and is becoming apparent that something has to chance. Let this letter be a eye opener for the current "leadership" and a warning for future recruits.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 786	Posted - 2015.11.28 22:37:28 - [2] - Quote YAY! Also, I'm sure your well aware the TLF is willing to recruit anyone..... That doesn't mean we'll trust you however. Never know, couldn't hurt right?
Mika Snow Cyber Knights 0	Posted - 2015.11.28 22:52:09 - [3] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: YAY! Also, I'm sure your well aware the TLF is willing to recruit anyone..... That doesn't mean we'll trust you however. Never know, couldn't hurt right? At the moment we are employed by Khanid II to help the Amarr Empire in the war effort and will continue to do so, for the time being, despite the obstacles pointed out.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2246	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:01:30 - [4] - Quote I would also like to remind everyone that TLF is official enemy of Caldari State. Those, who will join enemies of the State or will support or help them, are to be destroyed on sight. Every enemy will be hunted down, stalked and eliminated, whenever they would try to hide from Caldari justice, would it be low security space, null security space or even their own high security space. Nobody will evade the Caldari wrath and everybody will pay what is due! Glory to the State! Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 786	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:03:01 - [5] - Quote Meh.... Worth a shot I guess...
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 786	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:03:54 - [6] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: I would also like to remind everyone that TLF is official enemy of Caldari State. Those, who will join enemies of the State or will support or help them, are to be destroyed on sight. Every enemy will be hunted down, stalked and eliminated, whenever they would try to hide from Caldari justice, would it be low security space, null security space or even their own high security space. Nobody will evade the Caldari wrath and everybody will pay what is due! Glory to the State! When was the state brought up?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1671	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:08:54 - [7] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: When was the state brought up? Kimmie just wants to make sure everyone knows that fighting for the Tribes means she'll say mean things about them on the IGS while she sends imaginary assassination squads into Heimatar.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2246	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:17:25 - [8] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: When was the state brought up? Kimmie just wants to make sure everyone knows that fighting for the Tribes means she'll say mean things about them on the IGS while she sends imaginary assassination squads into Heimatar. I am not a "Kimmie" for you. It is "Strike Commander Diana Kim", or have you difficulty reading the name and insignia, goon? Missed basic reading classes? Leave your stupid familiarity to your low-life cronies. I am neither your friend, nor equal. I am Caldari Officer, and you are insignificant goon, just a speck of dirt below my boot, who stink and spread goon-grade ignorances. Just to show that Arrendis is nothing but a lying goon, I would like to point out, that just today one TLF member was hunted down. His ship was destroyed. The pilot was executed on the spot. His survived crewmembers were imprisoned and currently await transfer to the MIO of Amarr Empire. Details could be found on public combat records. Pilot name was "GanibalVictor". Glory to the State! Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 786	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:21:18 - [9] - Quote Right...... Soldiers in a war died. Surviving ones were imprisoned. That's a novel concept...
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2246	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:26:56 - [10] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Right...... Soldiers in a war died. Surviving ones were imprisoned. That's a novel concept... Really?.. If that's a novel concept, were you sleeping last several thousands of years? Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 786	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:35:33 - [11] - Quote Your saying that you did something that happens daily by people incliding myself and her i think (dont know what goons do with "pows" for lack of a better name since half their wars i dont get) to prove someone was a liar. The imaginary hit squad thing I didn't really get honestly...
Tamiroth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 168	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:39:16 - [12] - Quote Mika Snow wrote: Currently it is ran by an alliance, Habitual Chaos, who excels in awoxing fellow militia members and outcasting anyone that is new to the Militia. This goes against the core purpose of a Militia, an army compopsed of fighters and citizens of the Empire, not to mention it ruins the experience of every capsuleer who joins. I see and talk with many capsuleers who share my point of view. My personal experience in the Militia has been nothing but atrocious and is becoming apparent that something has to change. Let this letter be a eye opener for the current "leadership" and a warning for future recruits. My observations in the warzone contradict this. Habitual Chaos seem to be an effective fighting force under a good fleet commander in Mira DeVorsha. I was a nobody, one to three days in the 24th IC, and they let me in their fleet AND on comms. Yes, sure, there were usual remarks that this one is certainly a spy, and I was kicked once for being in a pod in Amarr when the fleet was leaving, but it was obviously justified, and after that they let me in again. So, no. (On second thought, they may have decided that I'm an associate of someone in PIE because of my PTOUR trinket, but never the less...)
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1671	Posted - 2015.11.28 23:58:07 - [13] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Your saying that you did something that happens daily by people incliding myself and her i think (dont know what goons do with "pows" for lack of a better name since half their wars i dont get) to prove someone was a liar. The imaginary hit squad thing I didn't really get honestly... We don't shoot or capture baseliner lifeboats - crew who survive are free to go. As for the 'imaginary hit squads'... it was a reference to: Diana Kim wrote: or even their own high security space Kimbelina there is basically claiming that the Caldari State will hunt down TLF members in the Republic's sovereign space, outside of the sanctioned combat zone, in direct violation of the Yulai Accords. Edit to add: Also, what don't you get about our wars? I'd be happy to explain.
Spero Ohmiras Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.11.29 00:00:12 - [14] - Quote Sounds as though the CEMWPA treaty is working as intended.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 787	Posted - 2015.11.29 00:10:12 - [15] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: Your saying that you did something that happens daily by people incliding myself and her i think (dont know what goons do with "pows" for lack of a better name since half their wars i dont get) to prove someone was a liar. The imaginary hit squad thing I didn't really get honestly... We don't shoot or capture baseliner lifeboats - crew who survive are free to go. As for the 'imaginary hit squads'... it was a reference to: Diana Kim wrote: or even their own high security space Kimbelina there is basically claiming that the Caldari State will hunt down TLF members in the Republic's sovereign space, outside of the sanctioned combat zone, in direct violation of the Yulai Accords. Edit to add: Also, what don't you get about our wars? I'd be happy to explain. Glad to hear that about baseliners, and thanks for the clarification. As far as the majority of them, aside from the fountain war, the war with BOB, and all the other well known ones, half the ones I know of just seemed like "team A was bored so they invaded team b," like what was the point of the fights with Black Legion last year (had a few battles but the battle of I think it was CCP-US, where cfc lost one capital class ship and Black Legion lost like 3, only reason I remember it was because I was in a claw for it)? Probably part of the "line members don't need to know everything" thing which I can't say I don't understand. It's just from the outside looking in in hind sight, what was the point?
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 220	Posted - 2015.11.29 00:19:15 - [16] - Quote I won't cry. As Vess said, I'm sure the TLF wouldn't mind more people, as long as they don't support the holding of slaves. And as always, the State Protectorate will accept any honorable (and probably more than a few scoundrelous) eggers ready to give no inch against the Gallente. We could have used a few dozen more pilots to defend Pav, but we sure gave a hell of a fight anyways. Arekaini-ya saaja! Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
Mika Snow Cyber Knights 0	Posted - 2015.11.29 00:20:44 - [17] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: Mika Snow wrote: Currently it is ran by an alliance, Habitual Chaos, who excels in awoxing fellow militia members and outcasting anyone that is new to the Militia. This goes against the core purpose of a Militia, an army compopsed of fighters and citizens of the Empire, not to mention it ruins the experience of every capsuleer who joins. I see and talk with many capsuleers who share my point of view. My personal experience in the Militia has been nothing but atrocious and is becoming apparent that something has to change. Let this letter be a eye opener for the current "leadership" and a warning for future recruits. My observations in the warzone contradict this. Habitual Chaos seem to be an effective fighting force under a good fleet commander in Mira deVorsha. I was a nobody, one to three days in the 24th IC, and they let me in their fleet AND on comms. Yes, sure, there were usual remarks that this one is certainly a spy, and I was kicked once for being in a pod in Amarr when the fleet was leaving, but it was obviously justified, and after that they let me in again. So, no. (On second thought, they may have decided that I'm an associate of someone in PIE because of my old PIE anniversary trinket, but never the less...) My experience is the opposite. Two days in the Militia and I was awoxed by Mira deVorsha when helping the Militia conquer a system and after a myriad of different reasons to why he did it, we've come to terms. After this incident, I took part in one other fleet, a suicide fleet, and have been an outcast ever since. However, when I speak I don't do it just on my behalf, but also on those who I keep seeing in Militia comms getting the same treatment. After all, we are fighting torwards the same goal, are we not?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1674	Posted - 2015.11.29 00:28:20 - [18] - Quote Quote: Glad to hear that about baseliners, and thanks for the clarification. As far as the majority of them, aside from the fountain war, the war with BOB, and all the other well known ones, half the ones I know of just seemed like "team A was bored so they invaded team b," like what was the point of the fights with Black Legion last year (had a few battles but the battle of I think it was CCP-US, where cfc lost one capital class ship and Black Legion lost like 3, only reason I remember it was because I was in a claw for it)? Probably part of the "line members don't need to know everything" thing which I can't say I don't understand. It's just from the outside looking in in hind sight, what was the point? For the most part, our wars (other than Fountain) have been defensive in nature over the last few years. When we went to war with Northern Coalition. in Tribute three years ago, it was in response to a treaty violation where they attacked our Technetium moons. The next war after that was Fountain, which was due to economic necessity - and we'd tried to avoid it by cutting a deal with TEST, but they double-crossed us on the deal, which left us few options and little incentive to find more. After that came the Halloween War, where NCdot attacked our allies in SOLAR FLEET and we came to their aid, and then we've spent the last year and a half fending off periodic attacks on Delve, then Fountain, and most recently, Pure Blind. As a result, we've decided to stop being reactive, and instead to actively engage our enemies out here. If space is going to be set ablaze, it'll be theirs, not ours. And as they have a reasonable portion of their wealth tied up in lowsec moon harvesting, well, that gets to burn, as well. As for the action last year in YA0, CCP, and other parts of Deklein, well... when CONCORD announced the new jump safety systems that were going in, it seems some of our enemies decided they had no reason not to suicide their capital ships. It's not a route I'd have chosen, but... when they attacked, we defended. We lost a fair number of battleships during one such encounter, but overall, held our own reasonably well. . . other than the one titan that died because the pilot accidentally shut down the defensive systems at the wrong moment. ((pilot shuts down boosts, titan shields go negative, game decides 'that can't exist!' and blows it up. Pretty damned hilarious.))
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 787	Posted - 2015.11.29 00:40:16 - [19] - Quote Mika Snow wrote: My experience is the opposite. Two days in the Militia and I was awoxed by Mira deVorsha when helping the Militia conquer a system and after a myriad of different reasons to why he did it, we've come to terms. After this incident, I took part in one other fleet, a suicide fleet, and have been an outcast ever since. However, when I speak I don't do it just on my behalf, but also on those who I keep seeing in Militia comms getting the same treatment. After all, we are fighting torwards the same goal, are we not? Ugh, don't know why I'm telling you this, really I don't.......... Within my first week in the TLF, I joined a few people in jumping someone who shot up one of us in abudon. We were looking for the guy, I was the only one not blindly warping to every celestial, choosing to use my directional scanner and find the guy. My info given was "(insert name here) in a thrasher." I found a thrasher on D scan, reported it to the rest of the fleet and got accused of being a spy (I didn't know we had a thrasher in fleet, someone switched out of a talwar into one). Well they decided to proclaim it in the militia channel and for a few weeks I got booted from fleets or denied entry into them. That didn't stop until I joined a corp that was in a well known alliance (UK, but they joined HASH the day I joined my corp). I learned alot there (honestly just about everything I know from that alliance, they are the best out there and I am more greatful than you can imagine for how much they went out of their way to mold me into the pilot I am today) and more importantly I got recognition for being loyal to our cause. What I'm telling you is simple. If your a nobody you'll be treated as a threat. Any group you join it will be that way. Stick it out and prove your devotion to your cause, sooner or later it will be you questioning the new pilots and wondering why you DIDN'T before. Take it from me or don't, just stay off my overview for your own sake.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 787	Posted - 2015.11.29 00:49:16 - [20] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Quote: Glad to hear that about baseliners, and thanks for the clarification. As far as the majority of them, aside from the fountain war, the war with BOB, and all the other well known ones, half the ones I know of just seemed like "team A was bored so they invaded team b," like what was the point of the fights with Black Legion last year (had a few battles but the battle of I think it was CCP-US, where cfc lost one capital class ship and Black Legion lost like 3, only reason I remember it was because I was in a claw for it)? Probably part of the "line members don't need to know everything" thing which I can't say I don't understand. It's just from the outside looking in in hind sight, what was the point? For the most part, our wars (other than Fountain) have been defensive in nature over the last few years. When we went to war with Northern Coalition. in Tribute three years ago, it was in response to a treaty violation where they attacked our Technetium moons. The next war after that was Fountain, which was due to economic necessity - and we'd tried to avoid it by cutting a deal with TEST, but they double-crossed us on the deal, which left us few options and little incentive to find more. After that came the Halloween War, where NCdot attacked our allies in SOLAR FLEET and we came to their aid, and then we've spent the last year and a half fending off periodic attacks on Delve, then Fountain, and most recently, Pure Blind. As a result, we've decided to stop being reactive, and instead to actively engage our enemies out here. If space is going to be set ablaze, it'll be theirs, not ours. And as they have a reasonable portion of their wealth tied up in lowsec moon harvesting, well, that gets to burn, as well. As for the action last year in YA0, CCP, and other parts of Deklein, well... when CONCORD announced the new jump safety systems that were going in, it seems some of our enemies decided they had no reason not to suicide their capital ships. It's not a route I'd have chosen, but... when they attacked, we defended. We lost a fair number of battleships during one such encounter, but overall, held our own reasonably well. . . other than the one titan that died because the pilot accidentally shut down the defensive systems at the wrong moment. ((pilot shuts down boosts, titan shields go negative, game decides 'that can't exist!' and blows it up. Pretty damned hilarious.)) I guess it's more so some of the stupid reasons the blocks in general come up with that I don't get. I think I was around to hear about that titan incident and ya that was soo dumb ((on that note, really ccp? I would think it would just default to 1 hp or something. Oh well, that's why I'm stopping at carriers)). Being on the defense is understandable.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2247	Posted - 2015.11.29 00:51:17 - [21] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Kimbelina there is basically claiming that the Caldari State will hunt down TLF members in the Republic's sovereign space, outside of the sanctioned combat zone, in direct violation of the Yulai Accords. Edit to add: Also, what don't you get about our wars? I'd be happy to explain. Only an ignorant would claim that hunting TLF members in any space is a violation of the "Yulai Accords", since the Protectorate and TLF are in CONCORD-sanctioned WAR, and killing them right in the Pator wouldn't attract neither CONCORD retaliatory force, nor would even mark you as a suspect. Arrendiot, your place is not in the Intergalactic Summit, but in the rookie chat. They will teach you about Concord-sanctioned wars and rules of engagement. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Mika Snow Cyber Knights 0	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:01:11 - [22] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Ugh, don't know why I'm telling you this, really I don't.......... Within my first week in the TLF, I joined a few people in jumping someone who shot up one of us in abudon. We were looking for the guy, I was the only one not blindly warping to every celestial, choosing to use my directional scanner and find the guy. My info given was "(insert name here) in a thrasher." I found a thrasher on D scan, reported it to the rest of the fleet and got accused of being a spy (I didn't know we had a thrasher in fleet, someone switched out of a talwar into one). Well they decided to proclaim it in the militia channel and for a few weeks I got booted from fleets or denied entry into them. That didn't stop until I joined a corp that was in a well known alliance (UK, but they joined HASH the day I joined my corp). I learned alot there (honestly just about everything I know from that alliance, they are the best out there and I am more greatful than you can imagine for how much they went out of their way to mold me into the pilot I am today) and more importantly I got recognition for being loyal to our cause. What I'm telling you is simple. If your a nobody you'll be treated as a threat. Any group you join it will be that way. Stick it out and prove your devotion to your cause, sooner or later it will be you questioning the new pilots and wondering why you DIDN'T before. Take it from me or don't, just stay off my overview for your own sake. I understand the concern for infiltrated agents within the Militia. What I dont understand is the continuous disregard and lack of respect torwards new Militia members.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 787	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:14:58 - [23] - Quote Mika Snow wrote: I understand the concern for infiltrated agents within the Militia. What I dont understand is the continuous disregard and lack of respect torwards new Militia members. Infiltration is a huge part of it, getting your fleet killed due to inexperience is another. Being content with almost being successful as opposed to only accepting success are far from each other. If I had to choose to fill the last spot in my fleet with someone who is recognized as being devoted to their people and maybe not the best pilot verses someone full of **** and vinegar, who im scratching my head about who this "super devoted" person who nobody knows is and hasn't fired on another capsuleers, who would I choose? No one wants to lose their crew or their system or their fight. What you should do is show your ability, show your devotion to your comrades. Your being tested the moment you undock for any militia, its not a hard test but it at the same time isn't a short one either. Put the time in....
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1674	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:23:38 - [24] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Only an ignorant would claim that hunting TLF members in any space is a violation of the "Yulai Accords", since the Protectorate and TLF are in CONCORD-sanctioned WAR, and killing them right in the Pator wouldn't attract neither CONCORD retaliatory force, nor would even mark you as a suspect. Arrendiot, your place is not in the Intergalactic Summit, but in the rookie chat. They will teach you about Concord-sanctioned wars and rules of engagement. Sorry there, El Kimino, but according to your claim: El Kimino wrote: Every enemy will be hunted down, stalked and eliminated, whenever they would try to hide from Caldari justice, would it be low security space, null security space or even their own high security space. Nobody will evade the Caldari wrath and everybody will pay what is due! Even a pilot who leaves the TLF and is no longer with the militia 'will be hunted down' - otherwise, they'd 'evade the Caldari wrath' and not 'pay what is due'. And really, you're still working on the first name? Still haven't come up with so much as a second shot? Weak.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 787	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:27:45 - [25] - Quote Air in this..... Head?
Trii Seo Executive Outcomes 897	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:33:56 - [26] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Diana Kim wrote: Only an ignorant would claim that hunting TLF members in any space is a violation of the "Yulai Accords", since the Protectorate and TLF are in CONCORD-sanctioned WAR, and killing them right in the Pator wouldn't attract neither CONCORD retaliatory force, nor would even mark you as a suspect. Arrendiot, your place is not in the Intergalactic Summit, but in the rookie chat. They will teach you about Concord-sanctioned wars and rules of engagement. Sorry there, El Kimino, but according to your claim: El Kimino wrote: Every enemy will be hunted down, stalked and eliminated, whenever they would try to hide from Caldari justice, would it be low security space, null security space or even their own high security space. Nobody will evade the Caldari wrath and everybody will pay what is due! Even a pilot who leaves the TLF and is no longer with the militia 'will be hunted down' - otherwise, they'd 'evade the Caldari wrath' and not 'pay what is due'. And really, you're still working on the first name? Still haven't come up with so much as a second shot? Weak. Why, oh why are you trying to demand integrity from someone whose attention-span is measured in micro-squirrels? Seriously, Kimmie is like a machine on the fritz - every time her mind attempts to analyze something, the watchdog resets her back to the primary subroutine of "speak mean things about the Gallente and any allies, even when they're not actually allies. Or aligned with the Federation in any way shape or form." One could think that she's actually an artificial person - might have been an officer some years back, but now it's a replicant that took its place. Mm - with the Gallente Federation specializing in amazing propaganda techniques, I'd wager she was programmed to behave in a way that puts State soldiers in a bad light. I wonder if we took her apart we'd find circuits with the very characteristic Caille branding... The king is dead, long live the king! Glory to Maximilian Singularity the Sixth, First of his Name! Proud pilot of the Imperium
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 787	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:37:34 - [27] - Quote Are in 'dis.....
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1674	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:48:25 - [28] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Air in this..... Head? She's better than you at this, Kimbuktu.
Indira Harashani Harashani Family 84	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:49:34 - [29] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: ]My observations in the warzone contradict this. Habitual Chaos seem to be an effective fighting force under a good fleet commander in Mira deVorsha. I was a nobody, one to three days in the 24th IC, and they let me in their fleet AND on comms. Yes, sure, there were usual remarks that this one is certainly a spy, and I was kicked once for being in a pod in Amarr when the fleet was leaving, but it was obviously justified, and after that they let me in again. So, no. My experiences in the Crusade have mirrored yours rather well, though most of the fleets I was in with Habitual Chaos were led by Odysseus Olacar. I have been treated with nothing less than respect and patience as someone new to capsuleer militia service, and found myself frequently being invited to HC fleets simply because my Neocom registered as "online." I imagine the relatively short time since your license was granted and your joining of the militia has something to do with the response you got; I've yet to see any "awoxing" in a HC fleet that was not in self-defense of one of our fleetmates. In fact, it is CVA who I have seen attacking pilots registered with the Crusade in our fleets. Lady Indira Harashani Holder of the Kheryskova Archipelago, Kihtaled IV
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 788	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:55:26 - [30] - Quote And this is why the CVA must be destroyed! Don't you agree, Harerendis?
Mika Snow Cyber Knights 0	Posted - 2015.11.29 02:45:28 - [31] - Quote Indira Harashani My experiences in the Crusade have mirrored yours rather well, though most of the fleets I was in with Habitual Chaos were led by Odysseus Olacar. I have been treated with nothing less than respect and patience as someone new to capsuleer militia service, and found myself frequently being invited to HC fleets simply because my Neocom registered as "online." I imagine the relatively short time since your license was granted and your joining of the militia has something to do with the response you got; I've yet to see any "awoxing" in a HC fleet that was not in self-defense of one of our fleetmates. In fact, it is CVA who I have seen attacking pilots registered with the Crusade in [i wrote: our[/i] fleets. My experience is the opposite. And I suspect you were affiliated with them or some of their members before joining the militia in some way. Anyways, I stand by my views until proved otherwise.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1675	Posted - 2015.11.29 02:52:07 - [32] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: And this is why the CVA must be destroyed! Don't you agree, Harerendis? Mmmm, I dunno about destroyed, but I'd certainly get a giggle out of seeing CVA set upon by the reclaimers.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 789	Posted - 2015.11.29 03:02:04 - [33] - Quote You don't like burning provi, arsondis?
Indira Harashani Harashani Family 84	Posted - 2015.11.29 03:17:46 - [34] - Quote Mika Snow wrote: My experience is the opposite. And I suspect you were affiliated with them or some of their members before joining the militia in some way. Aside from knowing one or two pilots among PIE who introduced me, no. I had no prior affiliations with them or theirs. I have been busy tending to things at home of late, as it happens, and have not had the time to fly much in the last several weeks save some work with the (not-Upwell) Consortium regarding the Drifters. Lady Indira Harashani Holder of the Kheryskova Archipelago, Kihtaled IV
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1676	Posted - 2015.11.29 04:54:51 - [35] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: You don't like burning provi, arsondis? Eh, it's not a thing to me, really. It was a good way to learn the new warfare-style, but really, they've never done anything to us, and they're pretty far from home.
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 223	Posted - 2015.11.29 08:57:58 - [36] - Quote Mika Snow wrote: My experience is the opposite. Two days in the Militia and I was awoxed by Mira deVorsha when helping the Militia conquer a system and after a myriad of different reasons to why he did it, we've come to terms. After this incident, I took part in one other fleet, a suicide fleet, and have been an outcast ever since. Wait what, didn't Mira ask you to reposition multiple times and you just ignored every command and acted like a complete spy so you got blaped for that. Mika Snow wrote: It's with a heavy heart I say this, but the Amarr Militia is a shadow of its former self. I used to see majestic fleets comprising of different capsuleers from different corporations, including the 24th Imperial Crusade, but now the majority of fleets you see are under one ticker. Currently it is ran by an alliance, Habitual Chaos, who excels in awoxing fellow militia members and outcasting anyone that is new to the Militia. This goes against the core purpose of a Militia, an army compopsed of fighters and citizens of the Empire, not to mention it ruins the experience of every capsuleer who joins. I see and talk with many capsuleers who share my point of view. Also I do have to ask how do you know that something changed, were you in 24th for a long time before?
Mika Snow Cyber Knights 0	Posted - 2015.11.29 10:13:29 - [37] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: Wait what, didn't Mira ask you to reposition multiple times and you just ignored every command and acted like a complete spy so you got blaped for that. I wasn't asked to reposition once, I was shot without warning and after reimbursed for my loss and only then asked to leave the system. You need to get your facts straight. But that is not the purpose of this post anyways, I'm talking about the global feeling I get from the Militia. And the results are out there for everyone to see. Ashlar Vellum wrote: Also I do have to ask how do you know that something changed, were you in 24th for a long time before? And yes, I did fight alongside the 24th a long time ago under a different name, so I do know what I am talking about. I have no interest in making up stories, I'm simply stating my experience and point of view.
Mika Snow Cyber Knights 0	Posted - 2015.11.29 10:18:40 - [38] - Quote Indira Harashani wrote: Mika Snow wrote: My experience is the opposite. And I suspect you were affiliated with them or some of their members before joining the militia in some way. Aside from knowing one or two pilots among PIE who introduced me, no. I had no prior affiliations with them or theirs. I have been busy tending to things at home of late, as it happens, and have not had the time to fly much in the last several weeks save some work with the (not-Upwell) Consortium regarding the Drifters. The fact that you were introduced by a well respected corp within the Militia is enough for a change of attitude by their part.
morion Lighting Build 5	Posted - 2015.11.29 10:37:19 - [39] - Quote Is a forever war worthwhile? With LP as the reward it seems such a hollow meaningless story. No mater who wins today. LP will be there tomorrow in infinite and unending supply. as a outsiders viewing a paradox of insanity why not duel over the largest stack of toxic waste it will be just as pointless. is it meaningful? if you treat NPC wonderful the reward is a 0.80% broker fee reduction big deal why bother?
Ashlar Vellum PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 224	Posted - 2015.11.29 11:31:09 - [40] - Quote Mika Snow wrote: I wasn't asked to reposition once, I was shot without warning and after reimbursed for my loss and only then asked to leave the system. You need to get your facts straight. But that is not the purpose of this post anyways, I'm talking about the global feeling I get from the Militia. And the results are out there for everyone to see. Ok ... what is the problem then if you were reimbursed, mistakes happen, let bygones be bygones and move on. "After all, we are fighting torwards the same goal, are we not?" Also what is the purpose of your post or what are you trying to achieve with your OP? Mika Snow wrote: Ashlar Vellum wrote: Also I do have to ask how do you know that something changed, were you in 24th for a long time before? And yes, I did fight alongside the 24th a long time ago under a different name, so I do know what I am talking about. I have no interest in making up stories, I'm simply stating my experience and point of view. Then as a former pilot of 24th you should know better, respect and trust are not given willy-nilly they are earned and proven time and time again.
Trii Seo Executive Outcomes 897	Posted - 2015.11.29 13:53:53 - [41] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: You don't like burning provi, arsondis? Eh, it's not a thing to me, really. It was a good way to learn the new warfare-style, but really, they've never done anything to us, and they're pretty far from home. Careful, citizen... those are seditious words I hear! Well, honestly, while the campaign was entertaining - and I was very pleased with the performance of our group, CVA is not a threat to us - and as such, we have no business in torching that territory. The king is dead, long live the king! Glory to Maximilian Singularity the Sixth, First of his Name! Proud pilot of the Imperium
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 824	Posted - 2015.11.29 16:38:42 - [42] - Quote While I feel habitual chaos is an effective fighting force, it is very different from fighting the mercs of the Multicultural F1 Brigade. I daresay that with them in the Amarr Milita we would not be where we are today. Things are only going to get more Interesting as fewer systems lead a stronger defence. As to the original poster, if you don't want to fly with -HB- and you don't want to be on the right side of history and be with the TLF, then remember nothing stops you from making your own corproation. I can say, getting to fly with Khushakor Clan as a very new entity and help it grow have been very rewarding to me.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1678	Posted - 2015.11.29 16:52:00 - [43] - Quote Trii Seo wrote: Careful, citizen... those are seditious words I hear! Even knowing it's a joke... hardly. We've much closer fish to bone.
edeity Holy Amarrian Battlemonk Habitual Chaos 83	Posted - 2015.11.30 07:15:18 - [44] - Quote Ignore the propoganda and wolf in sheep clothing posts here. The militia is changing. Alliances are changing. What is not changing is that the Minmatar have never earnt a medal.
Alizabeth Vea Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 639	Posted - 2015.11.30 08:25:00 - [45] - Quote The Amarr militia is odd. Their idea of small gang is about five ships, not fifty. And they look at me funny when I bring an Oneiros. Forged in the fires of the forth Delve war, I've been to hell, and I'm back for more, so cap the gas and push back the door, turn fuel to fire, let the monster roar. Retainer of House Sarum
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 878	Posted - 2015.11.30 09:05:20 - [46] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: The Amarr militia is odd. Their idea of small gang is about five ships, not fifty. And they look at me funny when I bring an Oneiros. Welcome to privateer land. Our idea of 'small' actually means 'small'. It's time to get unspoiled from all those times you spent in null. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Anyanka Funk Hematology Advancement Program Sani-Sabik 337	Posted - 2015.11.30 13:11:15 - [47] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: The Amarr militia is odd. Their idea of small gang is about five ships, not fifty. And they look at me funny when I bring an Oneiros. Welcome to privateer land. Our idea of 'small' actually means 'small'. It's time to get unspoiled from all those times you spent in null. But that would mean she would actually have to learn to pilot a ship on her own without any orders.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 796	Posted - 2015.11.30 14:27:07 - [48] - Quote Anyanka Funk wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: The Amarr militia is odd. Their idea of small gang is about five ships, not fifty. And they look at me funny when I bring an Oneiros. Welcome to privateer land. Our idea of 'small' actually means 'small'. It's time to get unspoiled from all those times you spent in null. But that would mean she would actually have to learn to pilot a ship on her own without any orders. She's mainly a logi pilot right? Don't they have to be at least slightly competent, even on the massive block fleet level? They may not need to know how to spiral or orbit without assistance but they still have to know how to stay within a cap chain or maintain distances with their fleet and the opponents fleet. Not exactly a novice friendly position if you ask me...
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5806	Posted - 2015.11.30 14:36:09 - [49] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: The Amarr militia is odd. Their idea of small gang is about five ships, not fifty. And they look at me funny when I bring an Oneiros. Welcome to privateer land. Our idea of 'small' actually means 'small'. It's time to get unspoiled from all those times you spent in null. But that would mean she would actually have to learn to pilot a ship on her own without any orders. She's mainly a logi pilot right? Don't they have to be at least slightly competent, even on the massive block fleet level? They may not need to know how to spiral or orbit without assistance but they still have to know how to stay within a cap chain or maintain distances with their fleet and the opponents fleet. Not exactly a novice friendly position if you ask me... Stop bringing logic into the hate hour. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 796	Posted - 2015.11.30 14:43:42 - [50] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Stop bringing logic into the hate hour. Well, what can I say.... Anyone who does fleet combat should always respect logi... Grr EWAR!!!!! when not on my side
Utari Onzo Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 819	Posted - 2015.11.30 14:52:59 - [51] - Quote As much as I'd love to dogpile on the Grr Null pilot agenda, Ms Vea showed her capabilities at the Amarr Championships. Now, to the OP, might I recommend looking at the 'other' alliance in the Militia, the Praetorians? "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1682	Posted - 2015.11.30 15:47:42 - [52] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: The Amarr militia is odd. Their idea of small gang is about five ships, not fifty. And they look at me funny when I bring an Oneiros. Welcome to privateer land. Our idea of 'small' actually means 'small'. It's time to get unspoiled from all those times you spent in null. Alternately, we could send SMA over to help the TLF and EXE to the 24IC...
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 799	Posted - 2015.11.30 15:59:14 - [53] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: The Amarr militia is odd. Their idea of small gang is about five ships, not fifty. And they look at me funny when I bring an Oneiros. Welcome to privateer land. Our idea of 'small' actually means 'small'. It's time to get unspoiled from all those times you spent in null. Alternately, we could send SMA over to help the TLF and EXE to the 24IC... Well..... We wouldn't want EXE to have the joys of a deployment, logistics, moving caps, ect. They don't have to go for the 24ic, if they really wanna go, they could do a joint deployment with SMA to the TLF...
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1682	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:02:03 - [54] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: The Amarr militia is odd. Their idea of small gang is about five ships, not fifty. And they look at me funny when I bring an Oneiros. Welcome to privateer land. Our idea of 'small' actually means 'small'. It's time to get unspoiled from all those times you spent in null. But that would mean she would actually have to learn to pilot a ship on her own without any orders. She's mainly a logi pilot right? Don't they have to be at least slightly competent, even on the massive block fleet level? They may not need to know how to spiral or orbit without assistance but they still have to know how to stay within a cap chain or maintain distances with their fleet and the opponents fleet. Not exactly a novice friendly position if you ask me... Alizabeth Vea is one of the most capable logistics pilots and anchors that I've ever had the pleasure of working with - and for. In addition to the personal piloting skills she displayed in the Succession Trials, she's proven herself able to maintain her cool and keep the pilots under her direction focused and effective in prolonged, heavy fighting. There are very few people I'd trust to watch over me as readily. She's probably one of the top five in the cluster at what we do.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1682	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:04:25 - [55] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Arrendis wrote: Alternately, we could send SMA over to help the TLF and EXE to the 24IC... Well..... We wouldn't want EXE to have the joys of a deployment, logistics, moving caps, ect. They don't have to go for the 24ic, if they really wanna go, they could do a joint deployment with SMA to the TLF... Then how would we cheaply supply Imperial Navy Remote Capacitor Transmitters?
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 799	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:05:44 - [56] - Quote Looting wrecks?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1683	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:07:32 - [57] - Quote Do AmarrMil pilots often carry them?
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 799	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:09:17 - [58] - Quote Nope.... But if you constantly kill them your chances go up...
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1683	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:15:25 - [59] - Quote given the number of them we'd need to be comfortable mandating their use, we'd really need a more direct supply line. And, while the Republic Fleet has some rather nice toys of their own, unfortunately the one really useful thing for us has been supplanted by developments in the Great Wildlands. With the Thukkers putting their own shield extenders on the market, and outperforming the signature reduction on the Republic version... well, once we get adequate sourcing there, those are clearly the superior choice. It's why I use them on Thundersaint.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 799	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:20:33 - [60] - Quote Arrendis wrote: given the number of them we'd need to be comfortable mandating their use, we'd really need a more direct supply line. And, while the Republic Fleet has some rather nice toys of their own, unfortunately the one really useful thing for us has been supplanted by developments in the Great Wildlands. With the Thukkers putting their own shield extenders on the market, and outperforming the signature reduction on the Republic version... well, once we get adequate sourcing there, those are clearly the superior choice. It's why I use them on Thundersaint. Well.... Can't say I didn't try.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1685	Posted - 2015.11.30 16:47:57 - [61] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Well.... Can't say I didn't try. I think my personal preference on the matter is pretty solidly established by now... but yeah, supply issues aside, I'd really love a two-month 'we are all MinFac now' deployment. It might make it a little difficult to keep our stockpiles in Amarr tended, but eh, that's what cut-out and shell corps are for.
Mika Snow Cyber Knights 0	Posted - 2015.11.30 20:16:37 - [62] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: As much as I'd love to dogpile on the Grr Null pilot agenda, Ms Vea showed her capabilities at the Amarr Championships. Now, to the OP, might I recommend looking at the 'other' alliance in the Militia, the Praetorians? PIE are the only alliance I have been flying with lately. Have nothing but good things to say about them. Friendly, competent and dedicated pilots.
Alizabeth Vea Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 641	Posted - 2015.11.30 20:37:40 - [63] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Alizabeth Vea is one of the most capable logistics pilots and anchors that I've ever had the pleasure of working with - and for. In addition to the personal piloting skills she displayed in the Succession Trials, she's proven herself able to maintain her cool and keep the pilots under her direction focused and effective in prolonged, heavy fighting. There are very few people I'd trust to watch over me as readily. She's probably one of the top five in the cluster at what we do. Thank you, madame Repswarm Director. Forged in the fires of the forth Delve war, I've been to hell, and I'm back for more, so cap the gas and push back the door, turn fuel to fire, let the monster roar. Retainer of House Sarum
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum 19	Posted - 2015.12.02 09:11:42 - [64] - Quote Mika Snow wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: As much as I'd love to dogpile on the Grr Null pilot agenda, Ms Vea showed her capabilities at the Amarr Championships. Now, to the OP, might I recommend looking at the 'other' alliance in the Militia, the Praetorians? PIE are the only alliance I have been flying with lately. Have nothing but good things to say about them. Friendly, competent and dedicated pilots. Just dont mention the Empress
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5810	Posted - 2015.12.02 15:55:32 - [65] - Quote Kalo Askold wrote: Mika Snow wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: As much as I'd love to dogpile on the Grr Null pilot agenda, Ms Vea showed her capabilities at the Amarr Championships. Now, to the OP, might I recommend looking at the 'other' alliance in the Militia, the Praetorians? PIE are the only alliance I have been flying with lately. Have nothing but good things to say about them. Friendly, competent and dedicated pilots. Just dont mention the Empress I don't remember Matari having much of a sense of humour about Karen Midular's assassination, either. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Anyanka Funk Hematology Advancement Program Sani-Sabik 337	Posted - 2015.12.02 17:02:29 - [66] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Kalo Askold wrote: Mika Snow wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: As much as I'd love to dogpile on the Grr Null pilot agenda, Ms Vea showed her capabilities at the Amarr Championships. Now, to the OP, might I recommend looking at the 'other' alliance in the Militia, the Praetorians? PIE are the only alliance I have been flying with lately. Have nothing but good things to say about them. Friendly, competent and dedicated pilots. Just dont mention the Empress I don't remember Matari having much of a sense of humour about Karen Midular's assassination, either. I believe they threw her naked corpse on the side of a plateau to rot and feed the wilderness. It would've of been much more respectful to at least drain her blood and consume her flesh. Giving her death a purpose instead of being thrown away like trash.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 882	Posted - 2015.12.03 01:31:17 - [67] - Quote Anyanka Funk wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Kalo Askold wrote: Mika Snow wrote: Utari Onzo wrote: As much as I'd love to dogpile on the Grr Null pilot agenda, Ms Vea showed her capabilities at the Amarr Championships. Now, to the OP, might I recommend looking at the 'other' alliance in the Militia, the Praetorians? PIE are the only alliance I have been flying with lately. Have nothing but good things to say about them. Friendly, competent and dedicated pilots. Just dont mention the Empress I don't remember Matari having much of a sense of humour about Karen Midular's assassination, either. I believe they threw her naked corpse on the side of a plateau to rot and feed the wilderness. It would've of been much more respectful to at least drain her blood and consume her flesh. Giving her death a purpose instead of being thrown away like trash. Why yes, it's disrespectful to return the body back to nature so that it can contribute to the natural cycle of birth, growth and decay. At least we aren't risking a prion or a blood disease with this practice. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 802	Posted - 2015.12.03 01:33:20 - [68] - Quote Burn!
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1699	Posted - 2015.12.03 01:44:46 - [69] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Just so you know, we do not just toss bodies onto the side of a plateau. There are rituals to put the spirit to rest, a moment of silence and other things. And we don't toss them. We're Sebiestor for crying out loud... ... we use home-made catapults.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 882	Posted - 2015.12.03 01:56:02 - [70] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Just so you know, we do not just toss bodies onto the side of a plateau. There are rituals to put the spirit to rest, a moment of silence and other things. And we don't toss them. We're Sebiestor for crying out loud... ... we use home-made catapults. Not helping. We actually just laid them on top of the plateau on a flat surface, either a man-made pedestal or a natural-occurring flat boulder. Then after all the rituals are done, we leave the corpses to the corovids. At least that's how it's done on Matar. The practice is still the same we leave the corpse to the slave hounds or some other scavenger or animals with scavenging habits. There are no corovids on Skarkon II. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1699	Posted - 2015.12.03 05:42:03 - [71] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Not helping. We actually just laid them on top of the plateau on a flat surface, either a man-made pedestal or a natural-occurring flat boulder. Then after all the rituals are done, we leave the corpses to the corovids. At least that's how it's done on Matar. In my hometown, the practice is still the same we leave the corpse to the slave hounds or some other scavenger or animals with scavenging habits. There are no corovids on Skarkon II. C'mon, you really think she's going to listen to the truth? Just let her keep her bigoted notions - she's no more our friend than her erstwhile idol, Nauplius. But as actual funerary proceedings go? There are even fewer scavengers on stations - but for us, the immediate family accompanies the dead to the surface. I haven't had the misfortune yet - my grandparents died before I was born, and my uncles are either alive, or in the State and not telling us if he's dead. I assume Cailyn would get in touch, though.
Alizabeth Vea Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 646	Posted - 2015.12.03 05:54:03 - [72] - Quote Wait, you're serious? That's what you do with the dead? Forged in the fires of the forth Delve war, I've been to hell, and I'm back for more, so cap the gas and push back the door, turn fuel to fire, let the monster roar. Retainer of House Sarum
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 883	Posted - 2015.12.03 06:33:05 - [73] - Quote Alizabeth Vea wrote: Wait, you're serious? That's what you do with the dead? Yes, that's what we do to our dead. At least that's what we Sebiestor do to our dead. I cannot speak for the other Tribes. As one of your priests preached, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Our funerary rites is based on a similar idea, except we believe not in God but in the Great Mother, and we also believe that the spirit of our forebears do return to the realm of the living once a year. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Leopold Caine Stillwater Corporation 619	Posted - 2015.12.03 07:34:47 - [74] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: Wait, you're serious? That's what you do with the dead? Yes, that's what we do to our dead. At least that's what we Sebiestor do to our dead. I'm curious to hear how that fits in with Federation's sanitation laws and protocols. Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim Angels are never far... Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 884	Posted - 2015.12.03 08:22:30 - [75] - Quote Leopold Caine wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: Wait, you're serious? That's what you do with the dead? Yes, that's what we do to our dead. At least that's what we Sebiestor do to our dead. I'm curious to hear how that fits in with Federation's sanitation laws and protocols. Not my problem. I'm not a citizen. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Leopold Caine Stillwater Corporation 619	Posted - 2015.12.03 08:48:44 - [76] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Not my problem. I'm not a citizen. Oh, I must've jumped to a conclusion there - given your corporate employment and all. I'm curious as to how do ethnic Matari living in the Federation get around this issue - do they just send all their corpses to the Republic? Someone has to move all those corpses after all - sounds like a lucrative business, even if you're not tied in with Quafe. Elmund Egivand wrote: For now it's Skarkon II. Who knows where our Enclave end up in the a generation or two later. Interesting little planet, isn't it. Feel invited to join us during our annual humanitarian event over Skarkon II next May; I hadn't known you were related to it. Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim Angels are never far... Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Skyweir Kinnison Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 151	Posted - 2015.12.03 08:49:28 - [77] - Quote Leopold Caine wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Alizabeth Vea wrote: Wait, you're serious? That's what you do with the dead? Yes, that's what we do to our dead. At least that's what we Sebiestor do to our dead. I'm curious to hear how that fits in with Federation's sanitation laws and protocols. The Federation stands for individual freedom. That includes religious freedoms. As long as you don't infringe other people's rights, you are good to go. There is however, usually a process of authorisation required from the local governing body. Such rituals are clearly not allowed on the streets or rooftops of great cities - anymore than the Minmatar allow their dead to be consumed in the village centre - there are plenty of planets and continents far away from human habitation which can be licensed for the ceremonies. I understand that in the great population centres, many Minmatar groups have bought their own lands on nearby planets for providing services. On our Estates, we have set aside several places in the southern mountains for our Minmatar employees. It must also be noted that many Minmatar families across the Federation have enough money to take the deceased back to their ancestral homes in the Republic, and this seems to be the preferred approach if affordable. There are probably more than a million different rituals for disposing of the dead available in the Federation. And a very flourishing funerary business to service those varied needs. Infinite diversity in infinite decomposition, if you will. Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
Tamiroth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 179	Posted - 2015.12.03 09:08:04 - [78] - Quote That's unhealthy and outright scary. I had no idea that the Minmatar do this... Thought they either bury or burn their dead, like most civilized people do. And what if there's a plague? ...People are weird.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 884	Posted - 2015.12.03 09:14:43 - [79] - Quote Leopold Caine wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: For now it's Skarkon II. Who knows where our Enclave end up in the a generation or two later. Interesting little planet, isn't it. Feel invited to join us during our annual humanitarian event over Skarkon II next May; I hadn't known you were related to it. The planet is crap. It's a miracle we survived and somehow managed to thrive on this desolate backwater where the water is so briny you can't even sink a pebble in it and the commodities so scarce even the Republic figured that further investment on this planet is like flushing ISK down a sink. Sometimes had to wonder if the Clan crash-landing on the planet was a miracle or a curse. We are well aware of the Cartel efforts on this planet and will gladly refuse your fruit, no matter how sweet and succulent. We are doing okay on this dustbowl, thanks. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 884	Posted - 2015.12.03 09:16:28 - [80] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: That's unhealthy and outright scary. I had no idea that the Minmatar do this... Thought they either bury or burn their dead, like most civilized people do. And what if there's a plague? ...People are weird. Sky burials are done out in the mountains or wilderness or wasteland, depending on planet, and far enough away from population centers. Without a dense population around the corpse, diseases can't find a host to incubate and spread. We are well aware of the current advances in medical science, you know. Wouldn't be able to survive long enough to reach the stars if we didn't. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1700	Posted - 2015.12.03 13:28:54 - [81] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: That's unhealthy and outright scary. I had no idea that the Minmatar do this... Thought they either bury or burn their dead, like most civilized people do. And what if there's a plague? ...People are weird. Burying the dead only limits which scavengers get the remains. And burning... that's supposed to be civilized? There's energy bound up in your meat - no mysticism there, either, I'm talking pure caloric content. It's going to be released one way or another. Life itself is a process by which chemical compounds are broken down and converted into waste heat, with the (for us) useful side-effect of fueling self-propagating organisms. Burning the body only streamlines the process, efficiently producing heat, with none of the side effects we rely on. As for diseases, that's been answered already. It's not like we do this stuff in the middle of population centers and invite all the vermin in town.
Tamiroth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 180	Posted - 2015.12.03 13:46:21 - [82] - Quote Arrendis wrote: And burning... that's supposed to be civilized? There's energy bound up in your meat - no mysticism there, either, I'm talking pure caloric content. It's going to be released one way or another. Life itself is a process by which chemical compounds are broken down and converted into waste heat, with the (for us) useful side-effect of fueling self-propagating organisms. Burning the body only streamlines the process, efficiently producing heat, with none of the side effects we rely on.. Hm, won't technically using one's ashes as organic fertilizer also count as "fueling self-propagating organisms" and/or "return to nature"?
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 885	Posted - 2015.12.03 14:09:18 - [83] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: Arrendis wrote: And burning... that's supposed to be civilized? There's energy bound up in your meat - no mysticism there, either, I'm talking pure caloric content. It's going to be released one way or another. Life itself is a process by which chemical compounds are broken down and converted into waste heat, with the (for us) useful side-effect of fueling self-propagating organisms. Burning the body only streamlines the process, efficiently producing heat, with none of the side effects we rely on.. Hm, won't technically using one's ashes as organic fertilizer also count as "fueling self-propagating organisms" and/or "return to nature"? Burning breaks the bonds in our biochemical molecules and release that energy as waste heat, the same bonds which can be used as energy to fuel metabolism and many other important chemical processes. Ashes are very inefficient fertilisers. Corovid droppings are better. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1700	Posted - 2015.12.03 14:29:16 - [84] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: Hm, won't technically using one's ashes as organic fertilizer also count as "fueling self-propagating organisms" and/or "return to nature"? The ashes have already had most of the calories consumed - that's what fueled the fire that reduced them to ashes, after all. The more efficiently you convert complex organic molecules to carbon and released energy, the less effective the results are for.. well, more or less anything but being carbon. To nurse the maximum return from the energy stored in the molecular bonding, you want as inefficient a process as is feasible, and when it comes to energy release, chemical corrosion (ie: cellular digestion) is about the break-even point. For maximum 'how much life do you get from X molecules', you probably want anaerobic life, but then you don't get complex forms, and for our purposes as a species... we're kinda biased toward complex forms.
Anyanka Funk Hematology Advancement Program Sani-Sabik 337	Posted - 2015.12.03 16:29:02 - [85] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: I believe they threw her naked corpse on the side of a plateau to rot and feed the wilderness. It would've of been much more respectful to at least drain her blood and consume her flesh. Giving her death a purpose instead of being thrown away like trash. Why yes, it's disrespectful to return the body back to nature so that it can contribute to the natural cycle of birth, growth and decay. Just so you know, we do not just toss bodies onto the side of a plateau. There are rituals to put the spirit to rest, a moment of silence and other things. Our practice also doesn't have us risking a prion or a blood disease either. I see why Diana calls you stupid all the time. People are not always bound to a planet. People with diseases including prions, and especially Sabik's Sepsis, are not fit for consumption or blood donation. The blood should be drained and certified clean as well as the body. I wouldn't expect you to know how cleaning a carcass is done or why. Do you even farm at all? Our religion is very clean. The Blood Raiders pride ourselves in our cleanliness. Even Omir Sarikusa, in his video debut, is taking his shower in clean fresh blood. The carcasses of your dead stink up the country side. I know very well. I'm from Hek V! And when food is scarce.. Guess what? The poor minmatar eat the dead.
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 222	Posted - 2015.12.03 16:37:38 - [86] - Quote Anyanka Funk wrote: The carcasses of your dead stink up the country side. I know very well. I'm from Hek V! And when food is scarce. Guess what? The poor minmatar eat the dead. Where'd you buy that lie, Funk? Even Jita rumor-sellers don't stock such garbage. ~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 885	Posted - 2015.12.03 16:46:19 - [87] - Quote Anyanka Funk wrote: Elmund Egivand wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: I believe they threw her naked corpse on the side of a plateau to rot and feed the wilderness. It would've of been much more respectful to at least drain her blood and consume her flesh. Giving her death a purpose instead of being thrown away like trash. Why yes, it's disrespectful to return the body back to nature so that it can contribute to the natural cycle of birth, growth and decay. Just so you know, we do not just toss bodies onto the side of a plateau. There are rituals to put the spirit to rest, a moment of silence and other things. Our practice also doesn't have us risking a prion or a blood disease either. I see why Diana calls you stupid all the time. People are not always bound to a planet. People with diseases including prions, and especially Sabik's Sepsis, are not fit for consumption or blood donation. The blood should be drained and certified clean as well as the body. I wouldn't expect you to know how cleaning a carcass is done or why. Do you even farm at all? Our religion is very clean. The Blood Raiders pride ourselves in our cleanliness. Even Omir Sarikusa, in his video debut, is taking his shower in clean fresh blood. The carcasses of your dead stink up the country side. I know very well. I'm from Hek V! And when food is scarce.. Guess what? The poor minmatar eat the dead. Because the food is scarce. I see grotesque practices like that in the more impoverished and practically abandoned parts of Black Rise, but I do not go ahead and label the Caldari as cannibals for that few exceptional instances of desperate cannibalism. Why don't you go walk in some other planet where food is more plentiful? The carcases of our dead only stink our traditional sky burial sites for just a couple days anyway. The scavengers will clean out the bones, consume the organs and suck the marrows, leaving scraps for the bacteria. Once that is done, all that is left are cleaned out marrow-less bones and those things do not have an odour. We know, because we also collect the bones of our dead after a few days of the sky burial, pound them into gravel, mix that into milk or gruel or whatever, depending on availability, and leave that for the second round of scavengers. The only thing we leave to remember the dead by are the chronicles of their lives, heirlooms and, for some of the Clans, the hair. Also, had you missed the detail of having our dead returned to their Clan or their traditional burial grounds? We spare no expenses for that sort of thing. Many of the Republic worlds have funerary services that will ferry the corpses to their families and Clans, and such businesses are also available in Federation space. If such a service is not available, either a passer-by kin will collect the corpse and arrange for the corpse to be returned to family or Clan, or we will cremate them if such measures are deemed infeasible and return the ashes to the family or Clan, if able. Us Sebiestor take the matter of recovering bodies very seriously. On the note of screening, there is always that chance that the screening will give you false negatives. A point zero five percent error rate still means that there are errors, albeit rare. Otherwise, Sabik's Sepsis would had been eradicated generations ago. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Tyrel Toov Delusions of Granduer SpaceMonkey's Alliance 665	Posted - 2015.12.03 16:48:46 - [88] - Quote Wtf? How did this go from the Amarr Militia to Minmatar eating their dead? And no, we don't eat our dead. I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Anyanka Funk Hematology Advancement Program Sani-Sabik 337	Posted - 2015.12.03 17:21:07 - [89] - Quote Neph wrote: Anyanka Funk wrote: The carcasses of your dead stink up the country side. I know very well. I'm from Hek V! And when food is scarce. Guess what? The poor minmatar eat the dead. Where'd you buy that lie, Funk? Even Jita rumor-sellers don't stock such garbage. I grew up on Hek V, not in Jita. But I wouldn't doubt the slum lords in Jita use low grade biomass in their products just to keep prices low... If I recall some Quafe products even use low grade biomass accrued from ship wrecks.
Utari Onzo Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 825	Posted - 2015.12.03 18:18:16 - [90] - Quote Tyrel Toov wrote: Wtf? How did this go from the Amarr Militia to Minmatar eating their dead? And no, we don't eat our dead. Welcome to the IGS. I hear this sort of thing (going off on tangents, not cannibalism that is) is sadly all too common on the GalNet. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Tamiroth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 181	Posted - 2015.12.03 19:30:01 - [91] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Burning breaks the bonds in our biochemical molecules and release that energy as waste heat, the same bonds which can be used as energy to fuel metabolism and many other important chemical processes. Ashes are very inefficient fertilisers. Corovid droppings are better. Arrendis wrote: The ashes have already had most of the calories consumed - that's what fueled the fire that reduced them to ashes, after all. The more efficiently you convert complex organic molecules to carbon and released energy, the less effective the results are for.. well, more or less anything but being carbon. To nurse the maximum return from the energy stored in the molecular bonding, you want as inefficient a process as is feasible, and when it comes to energy release, chemical corrosion (ie: cellular digestion) is about the break-even point. For maximum 'how much life do you get from X molecules', you probably want anaerobic life, but then you don't get complex forms, and for our purposes as a species... we're kinda biased toward complex forms. Uh... I'm almost speechless. I don't even know in which way. You explain why it is more efficient for bodies to decompose to give back their stored energy to the ecosystem in a logical, scientific manner, befitting a Sebiestor as I know them. And yet the fact that this tradition survived to the present day speaks about the spiritual connection with the nature so deeply ingrained into your culture that this should put any gallentean eco-activist to shame. You helped me understand important things about your people, so thank you. (Disclaimer: decaying corpses gnawed upon by the scavengers are still disgusting).
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1701	Posted - 2015.12.03 20:14:43 - [92] - Quote Might I request that, since it exists, this discussion be moved to the thread about funerary practices? Just so people know where to look for it.
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 1115	Posted - 2015.12.03 21:16:45 - [93] - Quote Those Wacky 24th Imperial Crusaders. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1702	Posted - 2015.12.03 23:35:30 - [94] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Those Wacky 24th Imperial Crusaders. Wacky? Or whacky? How often do they run around slapping one another?
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 889	Posted - 2015.12.04 01:36:10 - [95] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: Uh... I'm almost speechless. I don't even know in which way. You explain why it is more efficient for bodies to decompose to give back their stored energy to the ecosystem in a logical, scientific manner, befitting a Sebiestor as I know them. And yet the fact that this tradition survived to the present day speaks about the spiritual connection with the nature so deeply ingrained into your culture that this should put any gallentean eco-activist to shame. You helped me understand important things about your people, so thank you. (Disclaimer: decaying corpses gnawed upon by the scavengers are still disgusting). Us Minmatar are always a pretty odd bunch as compared to the rest of the cluster. We have all this technology, we have this understanding in science, mathematics and engineering, we, or at least the Thukkers and the Sebiestors, are the leaders in the field of mechanical engineering, advance materials applications and nanotechnology and yet we cling to our traditions and the old ways. For some of us we even merge the old ways with the new ways. My Clan for example extends our beliefs in spirits to our machines, treat them as equals. It all started with the reliance on technology to keep us alive in the wastes of Skarkon II, especially considering how unsuitable the water is for agriculture and how we keep getting superfine dust storms on a seasonal basis. Then somehow, along the way, we decided to treat our machines as kindred. Our Fenrir, which ferried us when we travelled the stars and whose husk became our shelter on this hostile planet became 'Sister Fenrir'. The water desalination system became the 'Moisture-giver'. It became custom to spend an hour engaging our vehicles in communion before we move out into the badlands during our salvage ops. Fabrication of new machines became a hallowed ritual and newly-manufactured or recovered and/or refurbished machines were name-marked and treated as individuals in their own right. The reactor of Sister Fenrir became more than just a reactor and became the center of one of my Clan's history-myth sagas. Even the brewing and partaking of coffee became a daily communal ritual. The spirit of Sister Fenrir lives on in her Heart (reactor), sheltering us from the lung-rotting dust-winds of the devil-planet, etc. etc. I do not really recall the details. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 58	Posted - 2015.12.04 03:00:36 - [96] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Tamiroth wrote: Uh... I'm almost speechless. I don't even know in which way. You explain why it is more efficient for bodies to decompose to give back their stored energy to the ecosystem in a logical, scientific manner, befitting a Sebiestor as I know them. And yet the fact that this tradition survived to the present day speaks about the spiritual connection with the nature so deeply ingrained into your culture that this should put any gallentean eco-activist to shame. You helped me understand important things about your people, so thank you. (Disclaimer: decaying corpses gnawed upon by the scavengers are still disgusting). Us Minmatar are always a pretty odd bunch as compared to the rest of the cluster. We have all this technology, we have this understanding in science, mathematics and engineering, we, or at least the Thukkers and the Sebiestors, are the leaders in the field of mechanical engineering, advance materials applications and nanotechnology and yet we cling to our traditions and the old ways. For some of us we even merge the old ways with the new ways. My Clan for example extends our beliefs in spirits to our machines, treat them as equals. It all started with the reliance on technology to keep us alive in the wastes of Skarkon II, especially considering how unsuitable the water is for agriculture and how we keep getting superfine dust storms on a seasonal basis. Then somehow, along the way, we decided to treat our machines as kindred. Our Fenrir, which ferried us when we travelled the stars and whose husk became our shelter on this hostile planet became 'Sister Fenrir'. The water desalination system became the 'Moisture-giver'. It became custom to spend an hour engaging our vehicles in communion before we move out into the badlands during our salvage ops. Fabrication of new machines became a hallowed ritual and newly-manufactured or recovered and/or refurbished machines were name-marked and treated as individuals in their own right. The reactor of Sister Fenrir became more than just a reactor and became the center of one of my Clan's history-myth sagas. Even the brewing and partaking of coffee became a daily communal ritual. The spirit of Sister Fenrir lives on in her Heart (reactor), sheltering us from the lung-rotting dust-winds of the devil-planet, etc. etc. I do not really recall the details. Despite the obvious ideological differences between us it's pleasant to see someone else treating machines as partners rather than tools.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 891	Posted - 2015.12.04 03:16:59 - [97] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Despite the obvious ideological differences between us it's pleasant to see someone else treating machines as partners rather than tools. We sometimes banter, snark and ****-talk each other. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2250	Posted - 2015.12.12 12:06:34 - [98] - Quote Trii Seo wrote: [ Seriously, Kimmie is like a machine on the fritz - every time her mind attempts to analyze something it does. Unlike yours, primitive scum. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Sinjin Mokk Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration 701	Posted - 2016.01.04 21:50:42 - [99] - Quote I am in agreement with Lady Snow. The 24th is a shadow of what it once was. It is rife with mercenaries, heretics and opportunists. Few pilots are there to serve the needs of the Empire or the Will of God. CONCORD is at the heart of this failing, it is their system. I, for one, do not see the Republic as a threat to the Empire and the paltry systems beyond the Bleaks are not a worthy addition. Better to aim our knights at the real enemies of God and Empire than waste our resources chasing escaped slaves and petty tribals. I also have returned to support the needs of the Kingdom. Dark Amarr: Rumors!
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 501	Posted - 2016.01.04 22:14:03 - [100] - Quote I'd take this opportunity to gloat, except it's no different anywhere else. TLF is home to Sani Sabik, Sansha and other scum, to the point where I barely find opportunity to undock lest I rub shoulders with them. I've never bothered to hide that I am not a solo pilot of note, not particularly fond of it nor good at it. I am far better in a fleet, taking up specific roles and excelling at them. This is now a truly rare thing, as even my own alliance opens up fleets to these... creatures. It is a pity. We all know these proxy wars have no real impact on anything of note. Who holds which systems means nothing but who makes money off which government and it's for all intents and purposes mere bloodsport. A place where individual pilots and even organizations can only achieve one real thing, inspiring dirtside hearts and minds that might actually achieve something in the long run. Yet, standards and principles are thrown out the window so you can have one more canister full of crew on the field to sacrifice to the bloodthirst, in the hopes that a system will tilt one way or the other, chasing some non-existent reward at the end of it all. Why? Why does PIE throw principles to the wind, flying alongside the scum of the Empire? Why does Ushra'Khan fly with Sani Sabik and worse? For blips on a map to turn a different color, creating no change at all in the actual systems themselves? Are these things truly worth shredding whatever tattered remains of ones spirit one has left? It is sad to see, whether it be among enemies or among ourselves, that people are so hungry for a victory that means nothing that they'll make the victory mean nothing by throwing all principle to the wind to achieve it. I would rather lose this pointless proxy war honestly with principles and honor intact rather than win because I was willing to sacrifice being Matari. It speaks rather ill of New Eden that this is a truly rare position to take.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 833	Posted - 2016.01.04 23:02:31 - [101] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I'd take this opportunity to gloat, except it's no different anywhere else. TLF is home to Sani Sabik, Sansha and other scum, to the point where I barely find opportunity to undock lest I rub shoulders with them. I've never bothered to hide that I am not a solo pilot of note, not particularly fond of it nor good at it. I am far better in a fleet, taking up specific roles and excelling at them. This is now a truly rare thing, as even my own alliance opens up fleets to these... creatures. It is a pity. We all know these proxy wars have no real impact on anything of note. Who holds which systems means nothing but who makes money off which government and it's for all intents and purposes mere bloodsport. A place where individual pilots and even organizations can only achieve one real thing, inspiring dirtside hearts and minds that might actually achieve something in the long run. Yet, standards and principles are thrown out the window so you can have one more canister full of crew on the field to sacrifice to the bloodthirst, in the hopes that a system will tilt one way or the other, chasing some non-existent reward at the end of it all. Why? Why does PIE throw principles to the wind, flying alongside the scum of the Empire? Why does Ushra'Khan fly with Sani Sabik and worse? For blips on a map to turn a different color, creating no change at all in the actual systems themselves? Are these things truly worth shredding whatever tattered remains of ones spirit one has left? It is sad to see, whether it be among enemies or among ourselves, that people are so hungry for a victory that means nothing that they'll make the victory mean nothing by throwing all principle to the wind to achieve it. I would rather lose this pointless proxy war honestly with principles and honor intact rather than win because I was willing to sacrifice being Matari. It speaks rather ill of New Eden that this is a truly rare position to take. It's a somewhat sad state that we have hit, I don't think that's deniable at this point. Who's to blame for it? Don't ask me. Rubbing shoulders with undesirables isn't the most pleasant experience but blame that on the sheer number of enemies the Empire has. Even in these mock battles, these live fire war games the actual point of the TLF, the 24IC, the FDU and the state protectorate is lost. You know our history, our freedom was largely backed by alterior motives. Think the Gallante really cared about our freedom? Think the Jove did? If you didn't come to the same conclusion I pegged you wrong. We were pawns then, now we stand on our own with pawns fighting our enemies for us as well as with us. You don't have to like who your with, you don't have to trust them either. When the rest of the republic wakes up well have something. Until then we have place holders. What exactly is this "sacrificing being Matari" you speak of? We are some of the most resourceful people in the cluster. What do resourceful people do? Use what's around them to their advantage. We use catalysts in fleets, we use Caldari designed missiles, our logistics wings generally use Guardians for armor logistics, yet even using logistics ships designed by our enemies were not being true to ourselves by using outside resources namely people. Our freedom itself was won by acting upon another race's fighting the empire. Why is it so wrong now?
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 950	Posted - 2016.01.05 02:24:22 - [102] - Quote You forgot to mention the modernised Breachers, Cyclones and Typhoons, which incorporate bits of Gallente and Caldari technologies into their design. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 833	Posted - 2016.01.05 02:28:54 - [103] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: You forgot to mention the modernised Breachers, Cyclones and Typhoons, which incorporate bits of Gallente and Caldari technologies into their design. Exactly, though I don't really disagree with the sentiment I'm just confused for lack of better words
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 501	Posted - 2016.01.05 08:15:43 - [104] - Quote If you think it is Matari to tolerate and ally with slaver scum worse than the Imperials, over a proxy war, things have indeed become dire.
Ria Nieyli 37771	Posted - 2016.01.05 08:27:25 - [105] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: If you think it is Matari to tolerate and ally with slaver scum worse than the Imperials, over a proxy war, things have indeed become dire. You don't really have a choice, talent is so thin across the cluster that you take whatever you can get.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 501	Posted - 2016.01.05 08:57:26 - [106] - Quote Talent for what, though? This is not some fight for survival where the end justifies the means. It's a bloodsport with no end-game. Nothing to be gained other than killmarks. The only thing you can really do as a capsuleer in the proxy wars is potentially inspire or affect the hearts of the baseliners to stir into action, and setting the example that the faithful of the Empire should happily embrace anyone from Sansha through Sabik is rather an iffy proposition, and it certainly isn't an example I'd like to set for my own people. Again I pose the question, what justifies this tolerance of vile scum? What is gained from tarnishing oneself such with the association? The opposing capsuleers will never run out of crew, isk and ships. They're all replenishable. The territory gains you nothing we don't already have, as the staircase has been established even before the proxy wars started. Which end justifies these means? I'd even argue that there is more to be gained from taking a stand, not tolerating these things, and perhaps even losing as a result. It sends a far stronger message to the cluster that Matari will not sink to the depths of our enemies over mere bloodsport, but retain our principles and ways and still stand strong even if our enemies throw all of theirs to the winds over a fake war with no real prize.
Ria Nieyli 37773	Posted - 2016.01.05 09:23:09 - [107] - Quote Please spare me the political rhetoric, I'm smarter than that.
Skyweir Kinnison Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 164	Posted - 2016.01.05 09:43:37 - [108] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Again I pose the question, what justifies this tolerance of vile scum? What is gained from tarnishing oneself such with the association? The opposing capsuleers will never run out of crew, isk and ships. They're all replenishable. The territory gains you nothing we don't already have, as the staircase has been established even before the proxy wars started. Which end justifies these means? I'd even argue that there is more to be gained from taking a stand, not tolerating these things, and perhaps even losing as a result. It sends a far stronger message to the cluster that Matari will not sink to the depths of our enemies over mere bloodsport, but retain our principles and ways and still stand strong even if our enemies throw all of theirs to the winds over a fake war with no real prize. This is well said. I think all one can do is uphold the nobility of your own cause - hopefully in association with a few true comrades of like mind. Almost all wars attract venal scum into both irregular and even regular forces. There is little to be done save take care of one's own conduct and honour. Because there is no ultimate territorial victory in this CONCORD designed 'war', the only achievement available to warriors is to be true their own beliefs and perhaps uphold the noblest tenets of their society - in whatever small way. Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2622	Posted - 2016.01.05 09:50:51 - [109] - Quote Del'thul is right.
Ria Nieyli 37773	Posted - 2016.01.05 10:00:18 - [110] - Quote Why do you fight then? If victory is impossible, why not do something else?
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1511	Posted - 2016.01.05 10:04:24 - [111] - Quote Bread and Circus, again. The answer is not that hard to see after so many years..
Skyweir Kinnison Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 165	Posted - 2016.01.05 10:32:59 - [112] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Why do you fight then? If victory is impossible, why not do something else? This is the dilemma of life, surely? For the baseliner, the question is "why do anything, we are all worm food in the end." Death defines them, and all that matters must be the journey itself rather than the end. Capsuleers have escaped death (to all intents and purposes) yet the same applies - we shape ourselves by the journey, not the victory. Moments of camaraderie, a noble and skilled opponent, the abstract satisfaction of upholding, even momentarily, the honour of our nation. For myself, I find great inspiration and comfort from the writings of an ancient Gallente philosopher, who once started an essay on the meaning of life by forcing one to examine the question: "Why do I not commit suicide?" He likens life to the myth, common among all civilisations, of a great and influential man condemned to eternally pointless labour by pushing a stone up a mountain only for it to plummet back to the beginning just as he nears his goal (many variants of the task exist). Removing all question of a god or higher purpose, he challenges us to argue reasons for life in the face of evidential cruelty, wantoness, misery and guaranteed oblivion. His answer: broadly, it's all absurd. That moment when everything goes so badly wrong, where one's decision making goes madly awry or the circumstances spiral out of control - yet despite defeat and humiliation we find ourselves laughing like a madman with the sheer delight of experience - that's the truth of life. If we laugh at the absurdity of life with a few select friends, either at the moment, or warm and safe later on, life finds meaning in that moment and the cruelty too, can be faced with laughter. Moments in the journey, mist in the wind, a sunset just as the clouds break. I believe one has to be free to really enjoy laughter, which is why I believe in and fight for Liberty. Control, autocracy, and conformity are, to me, strait-jackets for misery. If there is one marvellous compensation in my poorly skilled pilot career, it is that I have made a couple of Caldari officers laugh. Of course, if one believes in a god and/or a higher, external purpose that guides the universe, these are inspirations to be greater than oneself. Someone more faithful than I can answer how that might work for them. Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
Ria Nieyli 37773	Posted - 2016.01.05 10:48:47 - [113] - Quote Autocracy means self-government. You believe that it is oppressive. And this is the first time that I've heard that you need to believe in a greater power to better yourself. Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution.
Skyweir Kinnison Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords 165	Posted - 2016.01.05 11:13:14 - [114] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Autocracy means self-government. You believe that it is oppressive. And this is the first time that I've heard that you need to believe in a greater power to better yourself. Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution. And this is why the State must be amused. Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
Ria Nieyli 37782	Posted - 2016.01.05 11:18:10 - [115] - Quote And now, for an actual answer?
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2279	Posted - 2016.01.05 11:23:17 - [116] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Autocracy means self-government. You believe that it is oppressive. And this is the first time that I've heard that you need to believe in a greater power to better yourself. Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution. Colonel Nieyli! Gallentean agressors still occupy almost half of our homeworld, and they have started current militia war to try to occupy our Black Rise as well. These hypocrites have no right to apply word "oppressive" towards us. And if they do - it means talking with them is useless. They are just brainwashed by gallentean propaganda dolts, refusing to use logic and facts. Simply shoot them down to save the world from such inconveniences. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1511	Posted - 2016.01.05 12:36:09 - [117] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution. If wisdom is only afforded to live practitioners, then better to get rid of philosophers. The things we read I swear...
Ria Nieyli 37799	Posted - 2016.01.05 12:37:34 - [118] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Your entire diatribe is an excellent example why humane sciences are an utter piece of schlock. They rely on abstracts to develop their theory, which by definition makes them incapable of offering a practical solution. If wisdom is only afforded to live practitioners, then better to get rid of philosophers. The things we read I swear... Wisdom comes from experience. So yes.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1511	Posted - 2016.01.05 12:44:49 - [119] - Quote You should open books once in a while in your life.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 502	Posted - 2016.01.05 12:47:27 - [120] - Quote Didn't you hear? Books are for burning.
Ria Nieyli 37835	Posted - 2016.01.05 12:51:57 - [121] - Quote What part of what I said upset you so much that you need to insult me?
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1511	Posted - 2016.01.05 19:21:18 - [122] - Quote Alright... My apologies. By your reasoning, then better to get rid of every theoretical field then, right? Mathematics, philosophy... They rely on "abstract", right?
Ria Nieyli 37835	Posted - 2016.01.05 19:31:14 - [123] - Quote Mathematics are widely utilised in applied sciences like physics and chemistry. They are used to design an engine that won't turn your ship into a fireball in the middle of the flight. They're used when you traverse the universe in a FTL speed. Possibly time too. Every tool that you use, your clothes, even your shampoo - mathematics have come into designing it at some point. On the other hand, philosophers fail to answer simple questions such as "is the glass half-empty or is it half-full". Let me ask you this: what is the value of art?
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2282	Posted - 2016.01.05 20:59:28 - [124] - Quote Easy question. To calculate the value of art you multiply the time the workers has been creating it by their hourly wages and add the value of the materials used. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1511	Posted - 2016.01.05 21:25:24 - [125] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Mathematics are widely utilised in applied sciences like physics and chemistry. They are used to design an engine that won't turn your ship into a fireball in the middle of the flight. They're used when you traverse the universe in a FTL speed. Possibly time too. Every tool that you use, your clothes, even your shampoo - mathematics have come into designing it at some point. On the other hand, philosophers fail to answer simple questions such as "is the glass half-empty or is it half-full". Let me ask you this: what is the value of art? And yet, mathematics couldn't be more theory, and abstract. Mathematics in themselves, are NOT applied science. They are, however, used as a tool in applied sciences, as you say. Philosophy originates from the same exact roots, and uses the same exact abstracts tools, especially the use of reason and logic. Without those fundamental bases, your applied sciences have very little value, if none at all. Empiricism is nice and good, but to a certain point. I think you would like to consider also that by your statement, you basically tell that every spiritual matter is in even worse state, being Amarr Faith, Cold Wind, or anything else, really. Well, not believing in such things is an opinion I guess..
Ria Nieyli 37835	Posted - 2016.01.05 21:41:19 - [126] - Quote A theory is supported by evidence. Mathematics change to suit the sciences. At some point in the past, there was no way to mathematically describe the orbit of a rocket around a planet. Now there is. Let me ask you again: what is the value of art?
morion Lighting Build 34	Posted - 2016.01.05 23:31:47 - [127] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Easy question. To calculate the value of art you multiply the time the workers has been creating it by their hourly wages and add the value of the materials used. Artist are freely creative self producing by my definition. Artist produce / create "work" themselves and do not have a "hourly wage" Value others place upon art is subjective at best A Brutor in the subway station playing a instrument. That performer is never sure what will be offered in a open case while he plays to passers by. how long they will preform is also their choice . Easy question: hardly...
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2291	Posted - 2016.01.06 07:34:46 - [128] - Quote morion wrote: Diana Kim wrote: Easy question. To calculate the value of art you multiply the time the workers has been creating it by their hourly wages and add the value of the materials used. Artist are freely creative self producing by my definition. Artist produce / create "work" themselves and do not have a "hourly wage" Value others place upon art is subjective at best A Brutor in the subway station playing a instrument. The performer is never sure what will be offered in a open case while they play to passers by. how long they preform is also their choice . Your definition of art sounds like "State Produced ART" From a totalitarian government. Easy question: hardly... Here in the State we VALUE people's efforts, that they actually WORK and PRODUCE something. Thus they are REWARDED for what they do. And this reward is GUARANTEED for the time the worker has used to do the job, provided his work will fit into predefined quality standards, that he should know before starting the work (as they must be stated in the contract). And your type of ART is priceless. And priceless not in a good term, but priceless in a meaning that its price is null. The brutor playing his tribal drum or whatever in subway, does it sign contract with anyone? Does anyone sign contract with him? No. He won't get anything. His sort of art is USELESS and utter waste of time. Thus, I have to add correction to my answer, that it stays true only for PROFESSIONAL art, made by properly trained and educated specialist workers of art. And otherwise, it's value is insignificant. Still, this question remains easy. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Solecist Project The Scope Gallente Federation 30438	Posted - 2016.01.06 07:58:46 - [129] - Quote I am art. I am a professional. What am I worth ? ... ... and should it be measured per hour, or by session? Do I get paid more if my art is more satisfying than the art of others? RoAnnon wrote: O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me I just scanned for sites and I found a C3 The fleet is now forming, FC wants T3s O Bob, wonGÇÖt you buy a new Svipul for me
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 951	Posted - 2016.01.06 08:18:59 - [130] - Quote The determination of value of pieces of art is not an exact science. More like, well, an art. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1511	Posted - 2016.01.06 10:11:02 - [131] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: A theory is supported by evidence. Mathematics change to suit the sciences. At some point in the past, there was no way to mathematically describe the orbit of a rocket around a planet. Now there is. Let me ask you again: what is the value of art? I am sorry, where we talking about Art? I thought it was about philosophy... Now, mathematics change to suit sciences? How can you even state something like that? Your rocket orbit has been possible to describe exactly because there was mathematical theory behind already, that had to be applied to that specific case of applied sciences.
Grash Uriza Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate. 30	Posted - 2016.01.08 20:05:12 - [132] - Quote So There's some information on the which needs to be stated for the record. It comes in two different narratives that intertwine here. The first is about the twilight of Habitual Chaos [HB] in Amarr FW in 2015. The other is a story of a disgraced pilot causing trouble on his way out. Habitual Chaos [HB] was the leading Alliance in Amarr FW from July 2015 to November 2015. I was a member of [HB] in Obsidian Cadre (OBCA). I was an (OBCA) director before taking on corp CEO. We, [HB] had support from DNG (Who are recuiting, if you didn't know), some from PIE, and a few others. But the bulk of the work was on [HB]'s shoulders. We were effective, ruthless, and the terror of the slaves. After taking Houla, slaves gave up and weaponized boredom. Once we had headshot their capital system, the standing orders of day became to not engage [HB]. By the time that November had begun, burnout had set in from the work done to Push Amarr back to Tier 2 & the cowardly slaves not fighting. This lead to the leading [HB] corp, Calibrated Chaos (L33T.), to leave FW to join Triumvirate. I would leave OBCA to join L33T. in null. This decision ended [HB]'s leadership role in the Amarr FW. The ball was handed to DNG and they reformed Primary Is Local. quote=Mika Snow]Currently it is ran by an alliance, Habitual Chaos, who excels in awoxing fellow militia members and outcasting anyone that is new to the Militia. /quote] So by the time this was posted HB was not active, but DNG was still ramping up Local is Primary. The awoxing, however is another story... Tamiroth wrote: Habitual Chaos seem to be an effective fighting force under a good fleet commander in Mira deVorsha. Mira is the FC who sounds like he knows what he doing. And in small gang stuff, you can get by on the size of nuts between your legs. (That's how FC's are born, kids) But once you get into something where it matters, Mira had no clue what he was doing nor the inclination to learn what he was doing wrong. He was the FC who is willing to throw your personal assets into the fire to be whelped. On top of that, He was a liar of the highest sort. He said he had Titans. He would tell his fleet stories to get you to bring your shiny ship cause it'll get replaced. My two Guardians on that night were not. And yes In FW, A Guardian is a shiny ship *Mira wasn't a good FC. He was a horrible FC.* The issue with Mira wasn't that he was just a bad FC. No. As the CEO of another HB corp, I had to deal with with Mira going from being just an rash but full blown cancer on the sphinkter. And when this took place, Mira was gone from [HB]. And when he did, he did with ax to grind. Apologies to the OP. What you saw wasn't Habitual Chaos on the field.
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 837	Posted - 2016.01.08 20:34:26 - [133] - Quote Grash Uriza wrote: ...After taking Houla, slaves gave up and weaponized boredom. Once we had headshot their capital system, the standing orders of day became to not engage [HB]... . There were not standing orders "not to engage" HB. There isn't anyone in any position in the Minmatar milita that could even give or enforce an order like that. The Truth is, HB at one point swelled to surpassing over 400 members in 9 corporation (don't believe me check dotlan on the galnet) and that meant that fleets were fielded that were so much larger than what the Minmatar could field. It was very simple from at least the Matari Safari perspective (Khushakor Clan's alliance back then), that all we were going to do was kite and pick of ships from much larger fleets, and that is exactly what we did. This is what happens when you grow so big, so quickly. It is easy to blame your enemies, but there are no conspiracies here, individual alliances and FCs largely do their own thing, Tribalism is very strong in the TLF (who would have known?), but that means that we couldn't have even had standing milita wide orders even if we had wanted to. I can think of only one FC who I can quote as saying to "blueball or helldunk" HB and they are certainly not in my alliance.
Ottom Ephesianos Mirkur Draug'Tyr 44	Posted - 2016.01.12 18:52:20 - [134] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: I am art. I am a professional. What am I worth ? ... ... and should it be measured per hour, or by session? Do I get paid more if my art is more satisfying than the art of others? Are you changing your name and expanding your .. canvas? Can you be finished? Who decides when you are complete? As art, do you think of yourself or only allow others to do it for you? What other things are you other than art? Art gets paid once. Stay alive. As for bad FC's. Is that art?
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5828	Posted - 2016.01.12 19:01:35 - [135] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Easy question. To calculate the value of art you multiply the time the workers has been creating it by their hourly wages and add the value of the materials used. I would say, Diana, that you have very exactly calculated the cost of Art, but not the value of it. The value of Art, as everyone knows, is the sum of money that someone will pay for it on the open market. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 79	Posted - 2016.01.12 20:31:30 - [136] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: A theory is supported by evidence. Mathematics change to suit the sciences. At some point in the past, there was no way to mathematically describe the orbit of a rocket around a planet. Now there is. Let me ask you again: what is the value of art? That's a very interesting question to be sure. The way I see it is that Art speaks directly to an individual for whatever reason affecting a very real and quantifiable change in their behaviour, stimuli affecting brain chemistry at a more fundamental level. I suppose I view art as a pseudo-science of the mind that rather than attempting to answer a single invariable truth instead seems to focus on the processes and efforts that have led to its construction and how that affects each viewer on an individual level. In some it inspires patriotism, in some it induces the need for social or political reform, others it can inspire to acts they would consider beyond themselves under any other circumstances, while for the artists themselves it is simply a means of release and recreation. As both Pieter and Dianna surmise above you can calculate the costs of production and retail on the open market quite easily....but that is is only provides shallow insight into it's true value which is in the culture of the people whom it represents or whom identify with it.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 22	Posted - 2016.01.12 21:55:35 - [137] - Quote The Amarr militia will never fall if people from Null sec lose space and come back to the dying Empire.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1523	Posted - 2016.01.12 22:17:32 - [138] - Quote A word I got from our friend Scherezad-haani: She thinks that abstract sciences are the core of wisdom, and the foundation of practicality.
Kalo Askold Sanguis Inceptum Of Questionable Repute 24	Posted - 2016.01.12 22:33:48 - [139] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: A word I got from our friend Scherezad-haani: She thinks that abstract sciences are the core of wisdom, and the foundation of practicality. If what I said is abstract, I think you are looking too deeply into it.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1249	Posted - 2016.01.12 22:46:22 - [140] - Quote The 24 Imperial Crusade's ranks are bolstered and we are retaking systems rapidly. This thread is now obsolete. You will have to wait until the next swing of fate to indulge in apocalyptic thinking and nonsensical debates that have nothing to do with the original topic.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 521	Posted - 2016.01.12 23:03:31 - [141] - Quote This thread was stillborn and still got to seven pages, Aldiboo. 24th getting another DnG booster shot is unlikely to affect it much. I do question the future mental state of the Empire loyalists and what they're going to have to deal with in fleets and even local. I mean, we've got some absolute pillocks who's arses have been sewn shut and thus only have one thing coming out of their mouths but what's coming from the Empire side in the next weeks or months is going to make our morons look like a candle next to a star. A little tip, for Empire Loyalists: Put the local stack behind another stack and only let the memberlist peek out like a frightened little pup, for intel purposes. Gives you what you need and hides everything that has the tendency to drive otherwise sane and reasonable people towards the urge to burn the entire cluster. Well, except Aldiboo. As I understand it he likes to partake.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1249	Posted - 2016.01.12 23:46:54 - [142] - Quote Indeed, I have grown accustomed to DnG psyops tactics and have chosen to take a few pages from their book. While they are mostly insane, the pilots are rather upbeat and bring a bit of laughter to the grim work we do, injecting some much needed ironic comedic relief to my flagging spirit when I see the sad state of the warzone and humanity at large. I have even taken to posting Scriptures, Imperial propaganda, and a lovely little video file my 4-year-old son made of me blowing up the Minmatar symbol in a Coercer in local channels to class up the usual inundation of gibberish they fill them with. When you've spent seven years in the Bleak Lands you have to take solace in the little things, no?
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 1213	Posted - 2016.01.12 23:50:07 - [143] - Quote Aldrith Shutaq wrote: When you've spent seven years in the Bleak Lands you have to take solace in the little things, no? So, it's bleak in the Bleak Lands, eh ? Well, who'd have thought. Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 522	Posted - 2016.01.12 23:59:02 - [144] - Quote Well I don't particularly mind seeing Aldiboo degenerate into the addictive and corrosive loquaciousness of the howling apes that surround the Empire loyalists more thoroughly than anything our forces ever could. Nothing could serve us much better in that regard. I merely pity even my enemies the fate of having to suffer through such things. As I've said before, I would rather lose standing tall and with principles intact rather than win a hollow and empty victory borne only through sacrifice of ideals, principle and example. This proxy war bloodsport is not worth selling what little remains of one's spirit, when I can instead set an example for my people and serve them in that manner. Dying on one's feet is preferential to living on one's knees. Taking a knee just to gain a hollow victory? Beyond disgusting.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1249	Posted - 2016.01.13 00:32:10 - [145] - Quote I believe I do remember a certain Jebi Vjetar who would rile the mindless venom-spitters on the Minmatar side into epileptic spasms that would rival DnG's domination of the local channels. Unfortunately it seems your counter-psyops prototype gave up and died when Sahtogas was retaken. Such a pity. Back to the drawing board, I suppose. But Mizzy, why so bitter? You Minmatar still hold the overwhelming advantage as far as territory goes, couldn't you at least try to add a bit of perk back to your words? I thought Minmatar were supposed to be spicy, not salty.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 855	Posted - 2016.01.13 00:35:24 - [146] - Quote Technically salt's a spice.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1249	Posted - 2016.01.13 00:45:11 - [147] - Quote I deny this. It is a mineral and a flavor, quite unlike the other natural food flavoring as it is not grown by slaves; it is mined by slaves.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 855	Posted - 2016.01.13 00:48:31 - [148] - Quote What do salt and spices have in common? They both season food.
Ottom Ephesianos Mirkur Draug'Tyr 44	Posted - 2016.01.13 00:54:12 - [149] - Quote ::Otto's feed illuminates among the vast streams of data. The awareness that the intergalactic summit was connected to made the hairs on the Ephesian's neck stand on end. It always made him feel nervous and paranoid to broadcast naked and harnessed by an egg. As his conscious awareness intermingled with the A.I. environments parameters and limitations, Ottom Ephesianos stepped into the IGS. Materializing as pixels and shades defined his ancient amarrian visage. Wearing a spider silk duster, breach gear and a captain's customary saber a mug of digital ale in his grip sloshed over the side spilling static and aroma into the infinite.:: Success can be as melancholic as entitlement. This emotion is purposefully remorseful despite conviction in order to dissuade continued practice. It is counter evolutionary to embrace the dangers of war. The mind is not meant to accept war as a state of being otherwise the young and impressionable dream of war. Only the insane think bloodlust an admirable quality. To the sad state of the Amarr... The traditional values of pride through comparative intelligence seems too contrived to contemplate in the Amarr Empire. The smokescreen of their theologies has turned into a wall blinding them. They will have to break out of the Empire or be slowly choked of smarts within. A pacifist would seek mercy selling slaves into freedom as an Amarrian.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 522	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:09:01 - [150] - Quote I've already explained my bitterness before in this thread. You know first hand how it is to have your own side infested by certain undesirables. I'm just less willing than you to embrace such creatures as Sansha and Sabik. Principles are a pain in the arse, but I'm not sacrificing them over a proxy war, as I've already said. I'll leave that to PIE and the rest of the TLF.
Ottom Ephesianos Mirkur Draug'Tyr 44	Posted - 2016.01.13 01:42:42 - [151] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: I've already explained my bitterness before in this thread. You know first hand how it is to have your own side infested by certain undesirables. I'm just less willing than you to embrace such creatures as Sansha and Sabik. Principles are a pain in the arse, but I'm not sacrificing them over a proxy war, as I've already said. I'll leave that to PIE and the rest of the TLF. I have been flying with the Minmatar Republic and the Tribal Liberation Force for long enough to say that if there are blood rituals in the ranks they are hidden or hearsay. Sometimes lore and reality muddle the truth of a social norm or ancestral commonality. Second generations of any abnormal behavior automatically rebuke self destructive behavior and transform said behavior into rebellious activity. It is less than a few generations before ignorant traditions are manipulated beyond observance. There is no faith and so the continuance is merely political and capitalistic. In those regards the negatives of the lore's affects are departed from spiritual beliefs and used as excuses for progress either by reflection or relapse.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1249	Posted - 2016.01.13 02:28:35 - [152] - Quote Mizzy, I do believe you have lost sight of what we should be fighting for. We are not fighting for our own principles and dignity, but for the people who live in the warzone. Namely, to protect them. If you actually thought you'd matter in the grand scheme of national politics and policy, I can see why you'd be embittered. But no, the militias are not the nation they are supposed to represent. The only effect we have is on the lives in the warzone itself, specifically the poor souls who have no choice but to live and work there. I fight to protect Amarrians from Minmatar terrorism and occupation. I will use any cudgel I have on hand to defeat my enemy and achieve that end, unless it is a greater detriment to the total cause, such as the Butcher. Meanwhile, you should be fighting to protect Minmatar from Amarrian enslavement and oppression, and likewise be using every tool at your disposal to do so. In fact, I do believe you have done so in the past, with terror operations and psyops being conducted by you and your own peers. As far as DnG go, I'd say most of them are less disagreeable than some of the things you have done personally. They may be irritating, but they are not cruel. Well, except edeity's lot, but they'll get theirs soon enough. So really, stop with this moral high horse bit. That is our schitck, not yours. Just admit you are on the backfoot because you cannot beat DnG and get on with it. Fight harder, not whine harder.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 523	Posted - 2016.01.13 11:00:51 - [153] - Quote Oh do come off it, Aldiboo. It's a little late to start pretending system ownership affects anyone's lives but the actual members of the TLF and 24th. Don't worry though. I'm sure you'll find that this "any end justifies any means" attitude of yours won't come to bite you in the arse at any point. An honest piece of advice though: Save up those "means" for when it actually matters. When you actually can affect something. Dulling the blades and showing all your cards over empty pots is only as satisfying as pissing yourself in a snowstorm. Momentary relief, but ultimately rather stupid. Perhaps it's a little too late though, if you're already breaking out the "whine" and "moral high horse" nonsense. I didn't really think you'd run out of discourse already, but I suppose I've given you too much credit.
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 840	Posted - 2016.01.13 11:30:54 - [154] - Quote Aldrith Shutaq wrote: ... So really, stop with this moral high horse bit. That is our schitck, not yours. Just admit you are on the backfoot because you cannot beat DnG and get on with it. Fight harder, not whine harder. You really don't get the moral high ground either, you all are after all slavers, something inherently immoral, but, I am sure you can justify it to yourselves, I know I did long enough so I won't lecture you because it won't help. We are on the backfoot because, well we don't have anywhere close to the amount of pilots your side has. There isn't much to entice people to enlist over here either, the rewards aren't very good, and haven't been for a long time due to market saturation, there isn't very much structure or leadership, and what is around is largely divided into two groups who seem to have some mutual frustrations with one another. Add to it, the drama of being decried as traitor for attacking Amarrians in providence, or procuring resources outside of the TLF for our people; and that sort of thing scares off lots of recruits who might otherwise want to protect the people of the Republic. But I will certainly see you around in space Aldrith, For what it is worth, I like you, I felt like you fought for me when I was trying to find my place, but that won't make me go easy on you.
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 79	Posted - 2016.01.13 11:42:01 - [155] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Oh do come off it, Aldiboo. It's a little late to start pretending system ownership affects anyone's lives but the actual members of the TLF and 24th. Don't worry though. I'm sure you'll find that this "any end justifies any means" attitude of yours won't come to bite you in the arse at any point. An honest piece of advice though: Save up those "means" for when it actually matters. When you actually can affect something. Dulling the blades and showing all your cards over empty pots is only as satisfying as pissing yourself in a snowstorm. Momentary relief, but ultimately rather stupid. Perhaps it's a little too late though, if you're already breaking out the "whine" and "moral high horse" nonsense. I didn't really think you'd run out of discourse already, but I suppose I've given you too much credit. It's not exactly like you have a great deal to fall back yourself Mizhara.... I mean the Minmatar Militia's track record for actually being able to conquer the warzone is.... wait.... it's non-existent... So much for 'you' being able to affect a meaningful change.
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 79	Posted - 2016.01.13 11:44:54 - [156] - Quote ValentinaDLM wrote: For what it is worth, I like you, I felt like you fought for me when I was trying to find my place, but that won't make me go easy on you. Same can be said from me to you on the few occasions we've met and you've treated myself and Satja well considering your stance on the morality of our culture and complexities of our relationship. I somewhat understand why you fight but at times I wish you wouldn't so adamantly.... and you should know better than anyonewhy that is.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 523	Posted - 2016.01.13 11:50:51 - [157] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: It's not exactly like you have a great deal to fall back yourself Mizhara.... I mean the Minmatar Militia's track record for actually being able to conquer the warzone is.... wait.... it's non-existent... So much for 'you' being able to affect a meaningful change. In the Militias? Certainly not. If you'd actually comprehended basic text, you'd note that I've always said militia progress affects nothing. Even the post you quote says it. Meaningful changes I've accomplished have almost always been on personal levels with my clan, or through extreme measures outside the militias. If you'd like to argue against my accomplishments, I suggest picking ones where we aren't already in agreement.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1523	Posted - 2016.01.13 16:47:06 - [158] - Quote Always sad to see people resorting to ad personam when their argument fails.
Mitara Newelle PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 303	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:08:34 - [159] - Quote MIzzy? Aldiboo? ....Anyhow.... I will correct Captain Shutaq and say - no, you should not be fighting against the Amarr. Do everyone a service by returning to your home. The less time that must be spent repelling invaders of Amarr space - that would be you, Minmatar - means more time for my own family to be together. "Roleplaying beats tournament experience" - CCP Fozzie, Amarr Championships YC 117.11.08
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 525	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:11:28 - [160] - Quote It was almost Aldipoo, but I think the average reading comprehension of the IGS would lead to the belief it was scatological in nature.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1252	Posted - 2016.01.13 21:57:30 - [161] - Quote We both know that she is far too deluded to see the reasoning in that, dear. Best to gently sublimate her brutish, violent nature into a pursuit that could possibly be vaguely seen as noble and leave it at that.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 528	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:01:37 - [162] - Quote Oh, I'd be more than happy to stay with the clan. Just release the rest of my people so they can do the same, and I'll leave Empire space for good. If anything, I'd be too busy to even be in space. It'd let all of us focus on our own in our own territories, and let the mindless howling apes both our sides have to contend with fling their feces at each other without us ever having to get involved again.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1252	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:07:06 - [163] - Quote The best way to free them is to lay down your arms and prove to every Holder that Minmatar are worth freeing.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 528	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:14:02 - [164] - Quote Given what history has shown throughout... well, all of recorded history, you'll have to forgive us for not trusting the Empire to ever willingly release anything until the indoctrination is complete.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1253	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:19:01 - [165] - Quote It is still a better option than what you are trying.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 529	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:21:13 - [166] - Quote Given the amount of men, women and children who now live free thanks to efforts made by some of us, I'm afraid you can't back that statement up with anything but unsubstantiated claims.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1254	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:35:09 - [167] - Quote Ah, yes, the few tens of thousands you freed compared to the millions that were forcibly bred in that time, and the billions that had their leashes tightened because of your loud, frighting, explosive actions that cause holders to forget they are supposed to be educating their charges, not guarding them from raids and themselves from insurrection. There are only two outcomes of actions such as yours: the genocide of the Minmatar people, or the genocide of the Amarr people. I already know which you would prefer, but I do not think either option is preferable compared to a peaceful transition that could leave both of our nations intact. But please, I'm sorry for interrupting your short-sighted train of thought. Where were we going with this? Oh, yes! Go back to Auga and set up a base. You'll need to bolster your border if you don't want the Crusade's forward momentum to overtake your homelands.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 529	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:42:56 - [168] - Quote The Crusade could take the entire warzone and it'd have no effect on my homelands. Territory has never mattered for much but bragging rights in the proxy wars, you know that. That you're trying to blame outsiders for your own kind forcibly breeding slaves and the suffering you inflict upon them is rather telling, though. I wonder if you actually believe that nonsensical drivel? Ah well, chickens and eggs. It matters little. While you inflict suffering upon my people, I am bound tighter than any chains could to double my efforts and the money I funnel into the staircase and other means. Whichever causes which doesn't really seem to matter, it'd seem. You'll never willingly release them, so we will have to forcibly take them.
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 82	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:46:12 - [169] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: The Crusade could take the entire warzone and it'd have no effect on my homelands. Territory has never mattered for much but bragging rights in the proxy wars, you know that. That you're trying to blame outsiders for your own kind forcibly breeding slaves and the suffering you inflict upon them is rather telling, though. I wonder if you actually believe that nonsensical drivel? Ah well, chickens and eggs. It matters little. While you inflict suffering upon my people, I am bound tighter than any chains could to double my efforts and the money I funnel into the staircase and other means. Whichever causes which doesn't really seem to matter, it'd seem. You'll never willingly release them, so we will have to forcibly take them. You have an historic example of the Empire willingly releasing slaves and you choose to disregard it and that never again should this repeat... how short sighted.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 530	Posted - 2016.01.13 22:53:15 - [170] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: You have an historic example of the Empire willingly releasing slaves and you choose to disregard it and that never again should this repeat... how short sighted. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Given what history has shown throughout... well, all of recorded history, you'll have to forgive us for not trusting the Empire to ever willingly release anything until the indoctrination is complete. You still haven't seemed to master that "reading the posts in the thread before responding" concept, have you?
Mitara Newelle PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 305	Posted - 2016.01.13 23:03:22 - [171] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Just release the rest of my people... It has been said and demonstrated more times than I can remember, but apparently it needs repeating - Those of Matari blood living within the Empire are not *your* people any longer, they are *our* people, and have been for quite some time. You have no claim to them. "Roleplaying beats tournament experience" - CCP Fozzie, Amarr Championships YC 117.11.08
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1254	Posted - 2016.01.13 23:15:15 - [172] - Quote Oh Mizhara... so very good at arguing, but also so very bad. I am sorry for the miscommunication. I did not mean to suggest that the violent actions of free Minmatar are solely to blame for the poor treatment of Minamtar slaves, but that they exasperated it. I think I have already made my position on slavery clear, including how it should be properly conducted and how the Reclaiming ought to be pursued in lieu of the conquest and further enslavement of the cluster. I may be inclined to change those ideas, however, now that my family have been made Sarum holders. Still, despite the political risks I incur to myself, I will endeavor to express my ideals as best as I may, to the betterment of both our peoples and humanity at large. You are welcome for that. Anyway, having addressed your faux pas in calling me a believer of nonsensical drivel (which I am most certainly not, I actively fight against that sort of thing), I would like to address your final statement. Empress Jamyl I, God rest her soul, freed more slaves with a single decree than free Matari ever have in all their days of raiding and fighting, save for in the rebellion itself. You will not achieve your goals with violence, and even if it were possible, the cost would be so great that you would have become far worse than what you fight. Despite what you think, it is possible to be freed from bondage in the Empire. The Udorians did it, we Ni-Kunni did it, and I have faith that the Matari will do it as well. It will take time, and internal pressure towards official reform and cultural evolution, but it will happen, even if it is slowed by the willfully ignorant such as yourself.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 531	Posted - 2016.01.13 23:39:29 - [173] - Quote Mitara Newelle wrote: Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Just release the rest of my people... It has been said and demonstrated more times than I can remember, but apparently it needs repeating - Those of Matari blood living within the Empire are not *your* people any longer, they are *our* people, and have been for quite some time. You have no claim to them. Your kind demonstrated quite eloquently that having a claim is rather irrelevant if you have the strength to take them. They weren't yours to take back then, nor are they yours now. They belong to themselves and until they are freed they do not have the agency to be their own. You can feel free to claim otherwise of course, but just like my words will not make you let my people go, I doubt you'll be able to stop me from taking them myself. So far, neither have your armed forces. Quote: Anyway, having addressed your faux pas in calling me a believer of nonsensical drivel (which I am most certainly not, I actively fight against that sort of thing), I would like to address your final statement. I'd say it was fair game to question if that were the case. Quote: Empress Jamyl I, God rest her soul, freed more slaves with a single decree than free Matari ever have in all their days of raiding and fighting, save for in the rebellion itself. You will not achieve your goals with violence, and even if it were possible, the cost would be so great that you would have become far worse than what you fight. Despite what you think, it is possible to be freed from bondage in the Empire. The Udorians did it, we Ni-Kunni did it, and I have faith that the Matari will do it as well. It will take time, and internal pressure towards official reform and cultural evolution, but it will happen, even if it is slowed by the willfully ignorant such as yourself. I think we've gone over this bit a few dozen times by now, but I suppose we can do it again. Your #NoEmpress freed no slaves. She took countless poor indoctrinated souls and used them as ammunition in the greatest weapon ever fired upon another nation in known history. Unleashing indoctrinated zealots in countless numbers upon the Tribes, in what I'll admit was a masterful double strike letting her use it for propaganda and public relations while doing quite significant financial and systemic damage to the Tribes. It's brilliant. It's genius. It's one of the greatest acts of evil in modern history. The amount of suffering she inflicted on them and others with that act of war is immeasurable, I suspect. This is yet another example of what I have been saying all along. You will never release anything that isn't already indoctrinated and broken. I wonder what it'd look like if every first-generation slave was freed? First and second, perhaps? Third? I imagine that'd be a less... successful weapon against us.
Aldrith Shutaq PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1254	Posted - 2016.01.14 00:11:04 - [174] - Quote I see. You are not interested in seeing people freed from slavery, only people who agree with you.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 533	Posted - 2016.01.14 00:17:06 - [175] - Quote That's a rather liberal re-interpretation of what I said. There's a difference between freeing people from slavery and using them as a weapon. Free them all and let them go where they please, no matter their generation, faith or political stance. That'd be freeing slaves and people. The poor fools you used as weapons will unfortunately be slaves the rest of their lives, leashed more firmly than anything you can physically inflict upon a human being. Don't pretend you don't see the difference. It is unbecoming to lie quite so blatantly.
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 82	Posted - 2016.01.14 01:12:45 - [176] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: You still haven't seemed to master that "reading the posts in the thread before responding" concept, have you? I did miss that so fair point.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5839	Posted - 2016.01.14 06:14:52 - [177] - Quote Interesting... Mizhara, are you seriously positing a hard limit of three generations for the release of slaves of Minmatar descent? That might constitute an actual starting point for negotiations. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 535	Posted - 2016.01.14 06:49:05 - [178] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Interesting... Mizhara, are you seriously positing a hard limit of three generations for the release of slaves of Minmatar descent? That might constitute an actual starting point for negotiations. It would seem I may have chosen my words poorly there. I wasn't considering that at all, but now that you mention it the subject might be worthy of discussion and deliberation, even though I think for most of us it's "all of them, or the fight continues". It'll probably be so for me. They don't need to be Tribes friendly to deserve freedom and have this inhumane and barbaric practice forced upon them. Still, it is certainly an interesting notion that I would have to think about and consider with care. Probably reach out to the experienced specialists we used during our attempts to undo the massive conditioning and indoctrination and get their data and opinions, for that matter. I was not positing a hard limit, no, but for transparency's sake this discussion should be had in case it has merit. I doubt it, in the end, but no stone unturned etc.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2330	Posted - 2016.01.14 10:41:34 - [179] - Quote I don't know, why are you even talking with this tribal dog. It is already clear that she comes for "her people", as she calls Amarr citizens of Minmatar origin to kidnap them. She is a terrorist and rabid dog that's better be shot down instead of being talked to. Mizhara lacks ability to learn and understand, she is blinded by her hatred. People like her will never learn disregarding how logical your reasons will be and how many you will repeat them. Really. Just shoot her down. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Grash Uriza Calibrated Chaos Triumvirate. 31	Posted - 2016.01.15 03:33:42 - [180] - Quote ValentinaDLM wrote: There were not standing orders "not to engage" HB. There isn't anyone in any position in the Minmatar milita that could even give or enforce an order like that. Where's the a whip there's a way. It's just that we were holding the whip.
Deitra Vess Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies. 872	Posted - 2016.01.15 03:54:56 - [181] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: I don't know, why are you even talking with this tribal dog. It is already clear that she comes for "her people", as she calls Amarr citizens of Minmatar origin to kidnap them. She is a terrorist and rabid dog that's better be shot down instead of being talked to. Mizhara lacks ability to learn and understand, she is blinded by her hatred. People like her will never learn disregarding how logical your reasons will be and how many you will repeat them. Really. Just shoot her down. Aren't you saying that to someone who you once questioned his honor and called him a traitor? I clearly remember you devoting a whole thread calling him out about something to do with Heth... Either way its not my concern, I just find it a little funny is all. I don't remember him redeeming himself there and the thread died out, thus I'm surprised in your surprise when dealing with someone you deemed "unworthy" to call a Caldari.
Ottom Ephesianos Mirkur Draug'Tyr 45	Posted - 2016.01.15 04:14:39 - [182] - Quote Aldrith Shutaq wrote: Ah, yes, the few tens of thousands you freed compared to the millions that were forcibly bred in that time, and the billions that had their leashes tightened because of your loud, frighting, explosive actions that cause holders to forget they are supposed to be educating their charges, not guarding them from raids and themselves from insurrection. There are only two outcomes of actions such as yours: the genocide of the Minmatar people, or the genocide of the Amarr people. I already know which you would prefer, but I do not think either option is preferable compared to a peaceful transition that could leave both of our nations intact. But please, I'm sorry for interrupting your short-sighted train of thought. Where were we going with this? Oh, yes! Go back to Auga and set up a base. You'll need to bolster your border if you don't want the Crusade's forward momentum to overtake your homelands. It is the labor of the free to exert their own Will after it being stripped from them. How they choose to do this is irrelevant. A tight noose is an honest slave. For a slave to know the ignorance of the master guards them from emulating the higher social class. Enslaving souls in the name of God is an evil no offense could offend in countering. Slavery in the name of profit is debatable. Slavery in the name of necessity is forgivable with reformation. Slavery in the name of superiority is an ignorance which is rectifiable. God's slavers will burn as long as the sky holds stars.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2362	Posted - 2016.01.15 10:29:27 - [183] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Diana Kim wrote: I don't know, why are you even talking with this tribal dog. It is already clear that she comes for "her people", as she calls Amarr citizens of Minmatar origin to kidnap them. She is a terrorist and rabid dog that's better be shot down instead of being talked to. Mizhara lacks ability to learn and understand, she is blinded by her hatred. People like her will never learn disregarding how logical your reasons will be and how many you will repeat them. Really. Just shoot her down. Aren't you saying that to someone who you once questioned his honor and called him a traitor? I clearly remember you devoting a whole thread calling him out about something to do with Heth... Either way its not my concern, I just find it a little funny is all. I don't remember him redeeming himself there and the thread died out, thus I'm surprised in your surprise when dealing with someone you deemed "unworthy" to call a Caldari. Excuse me? I was adressing it to anyone who will read and I didn't say anything about "Caldari". What are you talking about at all?Just to object with unrelated fact for the sake of objecting? I hope it isn't a consequence of Derpslo's dumbing influence. Clarify yourself. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

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