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Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 794	Posted - 2015.12.02 20:01:59 - [1] - Quote People will rant at me for spilling the beans, but drifters? A bad joke now. We really got to do something about the incursions. Will sum up. It started with people being able to take less damage and finding smaller ships with less ehp lasted longer. Well finally, I did some testing on Sisi. Something I usually never do for content. How to beat drifters? 1. Get ship with a 40m sig radius or less. 2. Warp unfit ship in to bait them to warp in 3. Warp in condor with only missiles fit. 4. Do not move, and just keep firing. The drifters cannot hit you. At all. Clear any influx without issue. Want to do it quicker? Grab the minmi bomber. I am going to put this up now. Mega boss and burner mission style npcs where it is all either rock paper scissors, or minmaxing? Majority of gamers dislike that play. It is boring fast. How do I say to fix this CCP? Simple, reduce the number of drifters in all sites by like half. At the eight person fleet size for moderate influxes, have three drifters. Increase their orbit range, but drop tracking a bit. Drop drifter speed a bit. What this does is if you warp in on small sig, they cannot hit. So small ships can turn and burn, relying on their speed, not the drifters speed to avoid tracking. This also means that the more brick style of play is a little valid as well. At this time, a drifter incursion is a complete loss. If they hit the frigs with a tracking boost, then no small ship will be usable. Trying to evade tracking with that number of drifters on fields is impossible. There will always be one at zero angular, and a frigate is impossible to take even one hit. Therefore a tracking boost eliminates a whole potential gameplay. With the high numbers, a ship that can take the hits to allow logistics use has a high probability of dying by doomsday. Reward to cost of these ships means that drifters are nothing but a cash sink. So lets look at what this means. There are three groups of people who would do these sites. 1. Farming style pve players. Wouldn't do it cause L3 missions earn more (if the zero velocity frig is fixed by buffing tracking/resolution) 2. Lore people. They are most likely to do the counter drifter stuff for roleplay, but only so long til burnout. 3. Non pve people displaced. Face it. I would just move to another system. Drifters in amarr? Caldari space looks nice. A few might counter, but the time and isk loss eventually also would reach burnout. Ergo CCP, increase the orbit range a bit, drop the damage out put a bit from their regular weapons and half the number of drifters in the influx. Change reward to be more LP to allow incursion peeps to bling using their LP. Yes, it will drop value of amarr LP, but it still would be a non isk influx which would also reduce the issue they are having with incursions being a money farm. In fact, most rewards should be LP over isk imo... talk for another day. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Avon Salinder Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2015.12.02 23:30:10 - [2] - Quote So the answer to 'how do we safely complete drifter incursions?' is 'more kiting?' I did this a few years ago in FW missions. Get the npc fleet's attention with a fast orbiting interceptor and kill the bad guy with a bomber. Ridiculous. Getting pretty sick of the kiting meta totally dominating the game. Seems pointless training for anything larger than a cruiser these days. /rant
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 795	Posted - 2015.12.02 23:43:04 - [3] - Quote Well, that is the thing, offer both to be viable is best tactic with disadvantages on either side. Right now, you don't even need to kite. In drifter influx, drifter kite for you! To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Avon Salinder Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2015.12.03 11:48:58 - [4] - Quote Markus Reese wrote: Well, that is the thing, offer both to be viable is best tactic with disadvantages on either side. Right now, you don't even need to kite. In drifter influx, drifter kite for you! Gosh, isn't that nice of them! smashes head against keyboard
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1757	Posted - 2015.12.03 19:42:34 - [5] - Quote I'm not sure I get the solo part ... So you warp in, get killed, warp pod out, get condor, warp in, kill drifters? I'm my own NPC alt.
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 799	Posted - 2015.12.03 20:07:16 - [6] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: I'm not sure I get the solo part ... So you warp in, get killed, warp pod out, get condor, warp in, kill drifters? Well, get anything really. What happens is you use cheap or freebee ships to bait them to the warp in. On sisi, just warping in causes agression and they burn towards warp in. Once there, you can jump any small sig in. Bombers and confessors are smaller sig and high damage. Plug in halos and take the X-stinct booster is it for sig size, and they are near impossible able to hit you. Result is they just orbit you with shots missing, including their doomsday. Meaning it can be soloed at the low cost of rookie ships. Solo is not perfect, still risk being popped if the sig is closer to the 40m side of things and orbiting drifters bump you. Of course, killing them all solo takes a fair bit of time and the incursion payout system means solo is no money. Hench where it gets ugly. Tactical fleet? Bring orca or bowhead at the site beacon. Everybody goes in with rookie ship or small sig frigate, getting popped and reshipping to damage ship until one rookie ship or small sig frigate remains. Small sig frigate usually more successful and cheap. At which time, rest of people not tacked do a quick bounce off a bookmark dropped just on approach to site. Switch to pure gank small sig and drifters gone in a minute. No losses aside from inconcequencial. My time estimates in testing puts a site cycle at 5 minutes from initial warp to full clear and ready for next. Because all battleships are the same, this tactic scales to all sites, not just the small. Due to site spawn rates, This means 20m (severe) or 45m (critical) per influx site, every five minutes. Then add in antikythera and LP. It would not be without loss, but for the cost of mid grade halos, a booster, and the evasive maneuvering link, losses should number zero. Doing the bombers with the severe sites, even one or two bomber losses is able to be laughed off. I did testing in condors to see about how long a single unmodified and unbonused condor could last. I averaged 9.5 minutes by doing nothing aside from getting them to the warp in point. Only module fitted was a target painter to trigger agression on TQ. Wish to do it faster? Full tactic not tested but is a plausible. I know mallers can get without bling, enough ehp to take the alphas in the moderate influx. So if you go in, take the alphas and rep, and use small sig frig to then draw agro. Bait ships go silent to prevent the DD and alpha. Small ships pop. Faster and no losses potentially. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Whitehound 2891	Posted - 2015.12.03 20:43:57 - [7] - Quote You are missing the point, Markus, but first off 'Good Job' to finding out how to run Drifter Incursions. Welcome to the club! The point is not to solo the Drifter Incursions, but to do them as a fleet, or else will you not get any payout. So you are obviously not quite done yet... The actual problems start when you coordinate a fleet of players to clear a site in a time fast enough to be competitive to other fleets. As you have already realized can these sites be cleared with only frigates and therefore will you have to face much more competition than compared to Sansha Incursions. At this point will FCs and pilots start taking risks, not just stupid ones but calculated ones, and this is where the Drifters come in: any mistake you or your fleet makes results very fast in a ship loss or simply no payout. To give you an example of how deep the rabbit hole goes... Imagine you are in a contest with another fleet and one of your ships is taking the aggro. What will happen when the other fleet starts webbing one of the Drifters or only bumps them? ... Well, that Drifter will nuke your ship of the field, because its turrets can suddenly track your ship again. A fleet of cheap T1 frigates may then not clear a site as fast as one with T2 frigates, pirate frigates and T3 destroyers, but they can risk losing a ship much more than others. So you are not done yet with Drifter Incursions. It is much like playing with fire or Russian Roulette than just running site after site for ISKs. I am not even sure if I like all the possibilities. There is so much room for grief-play... it is going to rain tears and will cause so much aggravated drama. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 799	Posted - 2015.12.03 21:24:36 - [8] - Quote Whitehound wrote: You are missing the point, Markus, but first off 'Good Job' to finding out how to run Drifter Incursions. Welcome to the club! The point is... I think the point was missed. Lots of stuff was there, but none of it relevant to origin of the discussion. This was posted to show that the basic nature of drifters have a flaw. A flaw that meant I could run incursions, vs what is supposed to be the most dangerous AI, while watching netflix. To run a site optimally, one just needs to do locks and press F1, hence changes to bring more player involvement. We can discuss exploits all we want, but is the purpose of drifters only to be dangerous when another player helps them? Personally, I would like a mechanic where the mechanic is fun, not competition between other players is so easy. If we want that, CCP should just make sites that have a can full of aurum tokens or plex in it, anybody taking from it gets flagged. Watch fun ensue. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Whitehound 2891	Posted - 2015.12.03 23:01:57 - [9] - Quote Markus Reese wrote: Whitehound wrote: You are missing the point, Markus, but first off 'Good Job' to finding out how to run Drifter Incursions. Welcome to the club! The point is... I think the point was missed. Lots of stuff was there, but none of it relevant to origin of the discussion. This was posted to show that the basic nature of drifters have a flaw. A flaw that meant I could run incursions, vs what is supposed to be the most dangerous AI, while watching netflix. ... No, I still think that you do miss the point. You expect to get beaten by the game's AI like a chess player gets beaten by the AI of a chess computer, but this is never going to happen in an MMO. The most dangerous AI in any MMO is and always will be the intelligence of other players. Drifters simply deal a lot of damage, but that's it. Let me know if you want a discussion or if all you want to say is "Look, I can solo this, therefore it is stupid." Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 799	Posted - 2015.12.03 23:26:41 - [10] - Quote Whitehound wrote: No, I still think that you do miss the point. You expect to get beaten by the game's AI like a chess player gets beaten by the AI of a chess computer, but this is never going to happen in an MMO. The most dangerous AI in any MMO is and always will be the intelligence of other players. Drifters simply deal a lot of damage, but that's it. Let me know if you want a discussion or if all you want to say is "Look, I can solo this, therefore it is stupid." I would love discussion. I didn't solo it, the drifters soloed it for me. I didn't have to do anything aside from glitch them out. This works in larger. I don't expect to be beaten by the AI, but like in chess, I don't expect to win vs ai by two move checkmate or have them deliberately move their queen so my pawn can take it out. Try to visualize yourself in our shoes. Drifter combat sites. We go in, they agress, and nothing happens. I shoot them, nothing happens. They keep shooting me, but all I have is drifter miss notifications in a constant stream. I can sit, no tank, no movement, not even a single module active in one of the cheapest starter ships in the game.... and nothing happens. How is it okay then? What is the point of the mechanic if the only threat is somebody coming in and webbing the drifter to cause site contest? Like incursions, the only contest would be who can get the site first. They get cleared so fast that the whole webbing tactic won't matter, small windows and it suddenly becomes another meta game, not actual game. Why is it bad that I have to know chess to play vs the AI and ask that maybe player interaction be involved. The point of view you presented is three options. 1. Sit and do nothing... PROFIT 2. Contest the site and beat person to it... PROFIT 3. If somebody is there, web with cheap bait ship, they die... PROFIT Summary, without remedy to this situation, the drifters only involvement in the site is a trigger for profit, or to be used as a weapon so you can shoot said turkeys and profit. Your previous comment "Welcome to the club!" states this is info you probably already know. And you are satisfied with this form of gameplay? This is what will bring players and depth to eve? The answers in your first post were all the parts of the incursions to make them engaging are separate from the drifters themselves. Racing and webbing. That makes me think of good ol chess boxing. You show up for a game of chess vs the computer, but instead it punches you in the head. GG To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Whitehound 2891	Posted - 2015.12.04 01:42:27 - [11] - Quote Markus Reese wrote: ... I didn't have to do anything aside from glitch them out. ... It is not a glitch. It is their weakness, which we are supposed to exploit. Drifter battleships fly too fast for their own good and then cannot track very small ships that sit still. This is all. Other than this did Drifters destroy everything we threw at them. Only more perfect than Drifters is the "Self Destruct..."-option. Anyhow, for players to complete a Drifter Incursion does it need to have a weakness. It is the one thing you should have expected to find when you started doing Drifter Incursions. It may only not be the kind of weakness you thought it would be. What did you expect to find? A clone of the Sansha Incursion mechanic? Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 799	Posted - 2015.12.04 02:13:04 - [12] - Quote Whitehound wrote: Markus Reese wrote: ... I didn't have to do anything aside from glitch them out. ... It is not a glitch. It is their weakness, which we are supposed to exploit. Drifter battleships fly too fast for their own good and then cannot track very small ships that sit still. This is all. Other than this did Drifters destroy everything we threw at them. Only more perfect than Drifters is the "Self Destruct..."-option. Anyhow, for players to complete a Drifter Incursion does it need to have a weakness. It is the one thing you should have expected to find when you started doing Drifter Incursions. It may only not be the kind of weakness you thought it would be. What did you expect to find? A clone of the Sansha Incursion mechanic? Stupid is weakness? Do you honestly believe that? I don't want to sound rude but do you think any game designer in the world would program an enemy that is so stupid that it wouldn't think to... I dunno, slow down to hit it's target? That any game designer thinks the best way to design a feature is "To win, you must not play the game" It isn't a "what I expected" It is just a bad game design of the utmost if intended. I was hoping for something completely different from Sansha, but if this is as intended, it isn't sansha, it is worse. Take sansha, and remove the need for sniping, tackle, logi, fleet warps, and priority targeting. It is press F1 in it's purest. What I expected was tactics, player input and high risk, but with smart play, able to get a reward. The simple fact that classic agent missions are more technical and dangerous than this "weakness" says a lot. "Other than this did Drifters destroy everything we threw at them." Well, that was your fleets. The guys I ran with, we took losses but made money. We had strategy that were effective and worked well. So your debate is that the only way you could beat them was to let them beat themselves? Ergo as opposed to me who wants a proper challenge, you just want the farm with the risk being webifiers... Not sure how to explain better than bad gameplay is bad? To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Whitehound 2891	Posted - 2015.12.04 09:22:43 - [13] - Quote Markus Reese wrote: Stupid is weakness? ... Clearly, this has got to be a rhetorical question. I will leave you to your complaints Good luck! Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1436	Posted - 2015.12.04 15:39:57 - [14] - Quote The problem isn't rally with Drifters, but with the way tracking is calculated. The ability to out-track your own guns while in a stable orbit is nonsense. Other than that, I 've found that sisi and TQ incursion drifters do not behave the same. On sisi they automatically engage. On TQ, they do not care that I am there. I can literally just sit there at the warp in and they will ignore me indefinitely. Not only that, but they also ignore the Amarr faction ships as well. They will continue to ignore me until I start shooting at them. Then I get insta-blapped, even in these tiny ships. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 799	Posted - 2015.12.04 16:16:18 - [15] - Quote Soldarius wrote: The problem isn't rally with Drifters, but with the way tracking is calculated. The ability to out-track your own guns while in a stable orbit is nonsense. Other than that, I 've found that sisi and TQ incursion drifters do not behave the same. On sisi they automatically engage. On TQ, they do not care that I am there. I can literally just sit there at the warp in and they will ignore me indefinitely. Not only that, but they also ignore the Amarr faction ships as well. They will continue to ignore me until I start shooting at them. Then I get insta-blapped, even in these tiny ships. Quite true. The drifters are not being agressive on TQ including with the amarr navy. I did have a counter to that when I did TQ testing. it was to make use of target paint condors to bait them into the warp in. Without the aggression, I was able to burn to the wormhole though and that worked as well if agressed there. Is why on the drifter kill report, will see a stack of condors dead with just a painter. Not perfect as I was testing in a moderate, but sig reduced and in critical, that is a few condors, that are half a mil a piece to get 20m a person site. there is chance of lucky hits, but if you have the link, that is dramatically reduced. More with booster and insanely low if you got halos. The blap is because they are shooting without the angular. So need to be in a position so that they are at angular while they are locking, so when they open fire, are at max tracking difficulty. https://zkillboard.com/character/731832753/ The condors there are from my testing. First few were from burning, then from baiting to warp in. After that, took a couple tries, but you can see the time difference between last two. That is when I got them into a successful orbit. So minus a few of them, that would be time spent getting them aggroed with a reshipping on the site beacon. Each pop would go back for dps. Once control achieved, leave that one locked there, rest in dps and blap. In DPS built small sig, the site would be but a quick burst to clear. Two per drifter in high damage, and done right fast. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 799	Posted - 2015.12.05 03:15:00 - [16] - Quote Update to add images: http://imgur.com/a/XWG1r They are pretty pics... To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2015.12.16 06:45:36 - [17] - Quote Ive taken interest into drifters since they came out, and farmed them around jove wormholes when we could sell the element for 12-13m a piece about a year ago. I noticed this thread, and found it interesting. So I tried this, with halo set + booster + dramiel and just the TP. 22m sig radius. On Sisi, I popped after 20 sec. So something has changed ?
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2015.12.16 06:55:12 - [18] - Quote even a shuttle with halo and booster = 19meter sig radius pops on sisi.
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2015.12.16 07:17:01 - [19] - Quote Ive noticed the new logi frigates, especially the gallente one, have 4% lowered sig radius per skill level. I guess 2 of these can probably sig tank with remote reps and cap transfer between themselves in these sites.! gotta try that on sisi.
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2015.12.16 09:02:16 - [20] - Quote just tried a vigil with a tp to keep aggro on tq, it got shot down after 10 seconds. so this mechanic did get changed.

Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 826	Posted - 2015.12.16 16:14:48 - [21] - Quote Correct, they did change the drifters by having them orbit considerably shorrter. Sorry for not updating post after we noticed this change. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2015.12.17 21:12:18 - [22] - Quote funny to see though, that drifter incursions were such a big huge hype from ccp, and none runs them, as they are nearly impossible to do. drifters are so strong in so many ways, and so weak in so many ways. But their strong areas are nearly impossible to overcome, especially with their 2 sec target time on a 19m sig radius dramiel ship which takes a normal battleship 15 sec to target.
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2015.12.17 21:13:33 - [23] - Quote If they atleast allowed low sig radius ships to use their sig radius for target delay as normal pvp situations, we could overcome this with tracking disruptors and then warp in the dps frigs.
Chan'aar State War Academy Caldari State 30	Posted - 2015.12.19 13:35:52 - [24] - Quote I think the problem is a disconnect between CCP wanting to introduce a new kind of content that cannot be farmed without loss and us players who seem to want to believe that every type of PvE must have a magic min/max fit /ship that can complete said PvE entirely risk free. Personally I think the forced loss mechanic is very interesting but I guess that the only way CCP will get any buy in is to either have the rewards be massive or to have the Drifters force a situation where we HAVE to fight them regardless of losses. I'm thinking that they could start to shutdown stations / gates etc. I would really like to see this but I don't think CCP would dare.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2814	Posted - 2015.12.20 03:14:32 - [25] - Quote mannyman wrote: funny to see though, that drifter incursions were such a big huge hype from ccp, and none runs them, as they are nearly impossible to do. drifters are so strong in so many ways, and so weak in so many ways. But their strong areas are nearly impossible to overcome, especially with their 2 sec target time on a 19m sig radius dramiel ship which takes a normal battleship 15 sec to target. By 'no-one' you mean 'no-one except that incursion group that has scheduled incursion fleets about every second day' right? Though obviously they are having to create a new doctrine every time CCP changes them. It's just Drifter incursions vanish instantly they hit 0% influence. So it doesn't take that long to do one and then it looks like no-one is running them again. And Chan'aar. Lets see you come up with a profitable approach to drifter incursions and FC fleets then. People are not going to run respawning content at a loss for any significant length of time. If they shut down gates and stations but can't be beaten except at massive loss, people will just go somewhere else in EVE or play another game. It's easy to sit back and accuse people of wanting magic risk free income from the cheap seats.
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2015.12.22 04:22:00 - [26] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: mannyman wrote: funny to see though, that drifter incursions were such a big huge hype from ccp, and none runs them, as they are nearly impossible to do. drifters are so strong in so many ways, and so weak in so many ways. But their strong areas are nearly impossible to overcome, especially with their 2 sec target time on a 19m sig radius dramiel ship which takes a normal battleship 15 sec to target. By 'no-one' you mean 'no-one except that incursion group that has scheduled incursion fleets about every second day' right? Though obviously they are having to create a new doctrine every time CCP changes them. It's just Drifter incursions vanish instantly they hit 0% influence. So it doesn't take that long to do one and then it looks like no-one is running them again. And Chan'aar. Lets see you come up with a profitable approach to drifter incursions and FC fleets then. People are not going to run respawning content at a loss for any significant length of time. If they shut down gates and stations but can't be beaten except at massive loss, people will just go somewhere else in EVE or play another game. It's easy to sit back and accuse people of wanting magic risk free income from the cheap seats. First of all, whats the point of having influx status when running them equals substantial loss to the fleet ? Just that, the reward is messed up. then reward has to be measured differently than sansha incursions where reward is based on whole fleet surviving the site entirely to get payout in the end. If half the fleet is dead, then there is no reward for those capsuleers that died. simple as that. hence that is why I am stating they are impossible to do without substantial loss = no one will run them. Yes, some people are running them just for the fun of it and exploring which is fun by itself. But if it is so hard to get reward that half fleet will die in the attempt, then return of reward is wrong. then that have to be returned in a different way.
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2015.12.22 04:22:59 - [27] - Quote so ccp could change the way the reward is given out, eg. that all capsulers that warped in on the gate to begin with gets payout, that would change the scene entirely. but still, if you take a t1 cruiser fleet into a site that does 15m payout and half fleet dead before site is done, then u realistically get like 5m payout per capsuleer that died. If were supposed to take the hit for the team, the reward have to be given out also taken into account personall loss. that reward pool eg. calculates total reward, and gives covers the loss to the specific pilots that died in the attempt so they can get another ship back based on the shared reward pool. if that happens, incursion sites can be the same as today, and its just a matter of fine adjusting the reward to make the sites worth running for capsuleers.
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 2100	Posted - 2015.12.28 16:41:41 - [28] - Quote Chan'aar wrote: I think the problem is a disconnect between CCP wanting to introduce a new kind of content that cannot be farmed without loss and us players who seem to want to believe that every type of PvE must have a magic min/max fit /ship that can complete said PvE entirely risk free. Personally I think the forced loss mechanic is very interesting but I guess that the only way CCP will get any buy in is to either have the rewards be massive or to have the Drifters force a situation where we HAVE to fight them regardless of losses. I'm thinking that they could start to shutdown stations / gates etc. I would really like to see this but I don't think CCP would dare. THat can easily be done by CCP on a move that could be the best thing ever for eve or the destruction of eve. Change to a single incursion. Make the incursion grow 1 system per day if unnoposed.. forever... until they take ALL empire . So people will be forced into a real war, war that you fight not for profit but to keep your land (land where you can then do your profit activities). "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!" For the rest hire PoH \| Recruitment
mannyman High Flyers Northern Coalition. 14	Posted - 2016.01.04 17:09:25 - [29] - Quote Well, holidays season passed, and drifter incursion didnt even move a bit. I checked.. none running em.. total scandal by CCP.
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 841	Posted - 2016.01.05 01:26:57 - [30] - Quote Last I checked, the AI is still bugged too. They should do some live event and just pull em from the game for now I thinks... To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Udonor Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 70	Posted - 2016.01.15 20:02:01 - [31] - Quote Yup in future all NPC combat will be forced net loss. So CCP can sell more PLEX. Nothing wrong with that up to a point. Especially if people get advanced warning signs to evacuate area. More people will simply be forced to acknowledge PVP is the way to make ISK in game. LOL - but I am sure all the CareBear types will scream and leave EVE. CCP will need to promote EVE as like most RL sports, it costs RL money to compete and show who is best. Up to players to get sponsors or fans to help pay their way. WHole different slant on what EVE could be. But being good at EVE will mean a whole lot more than having uber rich players who primarily suck up ISK from guaranteed PVE scenarios.
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17108	Posted - 2016.01.18 06:25:07 - [32] - Quote I think this thread highlights the problem we have with bears who have become used to big rewards for near zero risk. CCP add an activity with highish risk and they scamper away from it like its the Antichrist. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Morathia Angry Naga's 4	Posted - 2016.02.01 21:35:43 - [33] - Quote well i was just linked this travesty of a post today and felt i should come post my thoughts on drifters ... as i am one of the fc's that regularly runs public drifter fleets (read 1-2 a week as schedule allows) for starters no ... drifters are not broken in any way except they cannot be ewar'd like we used to do. More importantly the site time and payout is 50M isk for about 10-15 minutes of nailbiting fun (and danger) if more folks got the word out about the drifter community then im sure the sansha players would start doing it as well but for now its just 4 communities of dedicated players who have cracked the code and discovered how to farm the drifters for isk. high risk but far higher reward. for anyone interested in flying drifter fleets you can stop by the "What Drifters?" channel or join the "What Drifters" mailing list the fleets are usually posted a few days in advance for location of focus as well as time and the doctrine ships are all in the mailing list as well as motd of the channel. we may be small in number atm but ....Corporate Reward Payout50,000,000 ISK1,697,698,421 ISKCONCORD rewarded Morathia for services performed. we are definately making isk from them XD.


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