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Transfering ice/ore from one jet can to another - griefing?

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Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:16:00 - [1] While I wasn't stupid enough to fall for it, I think there is a game mechanic that helps griefers:- I was mining a bit of ice, storing it in a jetcan, minding my own business, when a Typhoon pulls up alongside me. Perhaps he's looting my wrecks and salvaging them (I'd just put out an invite in local for the n00bs). I ignored him. He's not gonna take 6000m3 of ice in a typhoon. No, what he's gonna do is launch his own jetcan, open mine, then drag the whole lot across! This shouldn't be possible. Surely transfers should have to go through your cargo hold to be anything like sensible and realistic? What does he do then? Blows up the can and logs off! This isn't a whine BTW, more and inquirey as to the ilogical mechanics in certain aspects of Eve.
Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:17:00 - [2] The solution to this is to not solo mine, period. Have a friend there to pick up the ore/ice/whatever as you mine it. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO
DangermanUK Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:33:00 - [3] ^ ditto. Mining to a jetcan is never safe, nor is it meant to be. DangermanUK Not dangerous, but am a man in the UK! Has anyone seen my alt?
Amantus Gallente Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:33:00 - [4] Edited by: Amantus on 12/01/2007 15:32:01 Petition him for griefing? He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh. Edit: Yeah about the mechanic, maybe it should be changed to having to let stuff go through your cargo. It won't screw dedicated ore theives who steal stuff legitimately but might stop griefers from doing stuff like that. ----------- It's great being Gallente aint it? No, seriously I think it's pretty good.
Admai Sket	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Amantus Petition him for griefing? He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh. No he didn't - he just got a load of ore for free, and the possibility of a bit of PvP - it's legit, whether it's nice or not. -------------- Sig removed, due to inappropriate content. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your sig!) -wystler - Fantastic! Thanks! :)
Amantus Gallente Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Admai Sket Originally by: Amantus Petition him for griefing? He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh. No he didn't - he just got a load of ore for free, and the possibility of a bit of PvP - it's legit, whether it's nice or not. Maybe I misread but I read that he blew up all the ice then logged off straight after. Gaining nothing. ----------- It's great being Gallente aint it? No, seriously I think it's pretty good.
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:48:00 - [7] It's not griefing even if he blew up the ore, because once he took the ore, it was his to do what he wants with. (Although blowing up ore makes Ironfleet salvagers cry, and we don't do it.) That said, sometimes when Ironfleet rescues jettisoned ore, we flip it into an Ironfleet can and then have another character (usually me) use an indy or transport to haul it quickly away. I can't tell you how many times we've been yelled at in local for "destroying" ore that was safely in our hangars waiting for our refinery specialists to fondle and caress it. I don't know if it's overview settings or camera views or being focused on the flipping ship, but a huge percentage of ore jettisoners just never seem to see the transport. So perhaps that's what happened here.
Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:52:00 - [8] It's that special kind of greifing that's well within game mechanics. As was mentioned, he gained nothing from it so it's pure greifing. It's similar to a school bully walking up to some kid and knocking his sandwich onto the floor, just because he can. Very telling about the type of person that Typhoon pilot is, beyond the fact that he choose to fly a trash can. But again, it's 98% preventable, so I dunno. Might as well petition it, anyone that does that kind of crap has probably done worse before and will do even worse after. Players like that add very very little to the game. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO
Falcione Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:53:00 - [9] Never jet a can to mine....Especially Ice. Anchor a can or you can't complain when this happens. ----------- My Bio in Progress Prologue / CH.1
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots From Honour	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:55:00 - [10] While I certainly don't condone this kind of griefing of player miners, it is part of the game mechanics and isn't any kind of exploit. The devs have said repeatedly that jetcans aren't meant to be safe or secure, if you mine solo you run the risk of losing your ore, whether it gets stolen or popped. Conversely, this kind of griefing is great for macro miners. Some systems are particularly great for harvesting ore from them, just get a nice big ship to transfer it to its can, then have a hauler take it from there. I did once manage (somehow) to get a macro miner in a covetor to aggro my battleship, which was certainly a nice perk to my ore thieving.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:55:00 - [11] I do that in the hopes the miner gets mad at me and sends his drones after me. After seeing everything in 0.0 log off at the mere sight of me in local (or any of my corpmates, for that matter... or anyone not blue...), I rather like messing with highsec miners again. They don't log because they think they're safe. But highsec doesn't protect you from reflexively attacking blinky reds =P ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.12 15:59:00 - [12] A way to deal with this that is not foolproof is to repetedly yetison containers while you are sitting there. After a while you have a huge amount. When someone gets close you start shifting the ice or ore between your different containers untill he leaves. Also remember that you can only open cans really close to you so if you have... say just 5 cans but they are spread out round you you can shift the stuff you want to a can out of reach from him. I do however agree with the notion that you should never consider a jet can safe, you should likewise not mine into jetcans. It is true that you dont get all that much ice into a secure container of the largest size but ice in there is safe from the above grief. And yes, it is grief, it is however not grief that is against the game rules.
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:02:00 - [13] Seems to me game mechanics wise this is a screwed up system. Want to steal my ore? Fine. Then as the thief you should have to decide whether to steal it in a hauler and get a big haul (but risk getting attacked) or whether you want to steal in a battleship (smaller haul but less chance of getting attacked). As a miner I might set my drones after a hauler (nevermind them hoping to do this so they can bring a combat ship back in after me) but I'm not stupid enough to try that against a battleship. At least the battleship is hauling so little away that it isn't as big a deal. EVE is always about a give and take in the choices you make. If you can move ore from one can to another in a battleship then you have essentially taken possession with near zero risk to yourself. Ideally an ore thief should have to make the same hard decisions everyone else does.
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Marlenus I don't know if it's overview settings or camera views or being focused on the flipping ship, but a huge percentage of ore jettisoners just never seem to see the transport. So perhaps that's what happened here. There was no transporter involved. I checked the can he transfered to and it contained all my ice. I told him he was wasting his time waiting for me to take it and let him pop me, so he popped the can. On the subject of the overview tho, it doesn't help that it doesn't refresh on it's own. After he'd done the swap, his ship flashed red but not on the overview til I [TAB] refreshed it. If I hadn't noticed his ship flashing, I'd have been none the wiser til I took the ice back.
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:12:00 - [15] Man there must be tons of people waiting to jump on people screaming "quit whining loser!" because they obviosuly are so ready to post that they missed the main point of the OP. Quote: This isn't a whine BTW, more and inquirey as to the ilogical mechanics in certain aspects of Eve. He was wondering how a tiny craft can transfer that much ICE at one time from can to can....logic would assume that the cargo would have to be able to fit in the ship's cargo hold and then be transfered to the new can. He was not whining about greifing. Let's stop the derail and get back on topic. I personally think it's garbage that cargo transfer between two cans can be done on any scale no matter what ship you are in...that definately is something that needs to be looked at.
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:12:00 - [16] Man there must be tons of people waiting to jump on people screaming "quit whining loser!" because they obviosuly are so ready to post that they missed the main point of the OP. Quote: This isn't a whine BTW, more and inquirey as to the ilogical mechanics in certain aspects of Eve. He was wondering how a tiny craft can transfer that much ICE at one time from can to can....logic would assume that the cargo would have to be able to fit in the ship's cargo hold and then be transfered to the new can. He was not whining about greifing. Let's stop the derail and get back on topic. I personally think it's garbage that cargo transfer between two cans can be done on any scale no matter what ship you are in...that definately is something that needs to be looked at.
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:13:00 - [17] In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:13:00 - [18] In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk?
Der Komissar	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:14:00 - [19] Edited by: Der Komissar on 12/01/2007 16:10:48 Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk? Getting blown up by you. Call the whaaambulance, eve is not fair
Der Komissar	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:14:00 - [20] Edited by: Der Komissar on 12/01/2007 16:10:48 Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk? Getting blown up by you. Call the whaaambulance, eve is not fair
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:30:00 - [21] There is no griefing on this game . People call griefing anyone making harm to others.. that is pVP. Only griefing is whne a vet for example put a can outside anoob station.. or invite a 5 hours old cahracter to gang to carry it to low sec just o pod him.. etc.. All other things are not griefing. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Admai Sket Originally by: Amantus Petition him for griefing? He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh. No he didn't - he just got a load of ore for free, and the possibility of a bit of PvP - it's legit, whether it's nice or not. OFC it is griefing silly... he had fun ruining someone elses gameplay, without financial, tactical or strategical gain, if thats not griefing I'm George W Bush Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Nicocat I do that in the hopes the miner gets mad at me and sends his drones after me. After seeing everything in 0.0 log off at the mere sight of me in local (or any of my corpmates, for that matter... or anyone not blue...), I rather like messing with highsec miners again. They don't log because they think they're safe. But highsec doesn't protect you from reflexively attacking blinky reds =P Ok, if someone in a MINING SHIP reflexively attack someone blinking red, even I will think he deserve what he get. I am more ot the kind get the megathron and then attack.
Lin Dze	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:56:00 - [24] Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk? Having gang-mates warp in with a couple battleships and then say "Hello, our names are Inigo and Montoya. You stole from our friend's can. Prepare to die."
Lord Slater Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:57:00 - [25] simple fix have a guy next to you in a industrial constantly emptying the can [exept for say an item of ammo to keep the can. That way the Ore thief is welcome to the can he wont get the ore tho. ----------------------------------------------- YYAARRHH HAHAHA IM THE HAPPY PIRATE
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2007.01.12 16:58:00 - [26] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 12/01/2007 16:56:09 Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk? Blowing up a can activates a 15 minute timer that is reset if he logs off before the 15mins is up. You probe him out and have all the time in the world to get a noobship kill on him! And yes - I have tested this - You stay for 15mins in space after you log if you blow up a can! And ore theft aggro is 15 mins anyway so work it out and blow up his ship :) -- Slot 10 Blacklight's Modified 'GMhaX' implant +8% Pwnage FREE
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Der Komissar Edited by: Der Komissar on 12/01/2007 16:10:48 Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk? Getting blown up by you. Call the whaaambulance, eve is not fair Hmmmmm. Wonder how long it would take to destroy a Typhoon, using mining lasers and light drones? That's assuming he never got the urge to destroy my ship first Anyway, back on topic, my point really was that realistically he shouldn't have been able to transfer 6000m3 of ice when his cargo space is <1000m3. I don't mind in the slightest if someone has the balls to drive up in a hauler and empty my can. That's why I have a scrambler and 5 x T2 drones
ee21k	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:19:00 - [28] things you can do in future: 1. when you see possible ore thief approching, stop your miners mining, open your can, right click 'select all', drag all selected item over to your hold BUT dont release the button. When ore thief tries to take your stuff he is told that it is already in use. 2. when mining always be grouped with corpmates, even if they are in different system. plan is as above, but leave a small deposit of something unselected (prefrably first thing in can) e.g. 2k of veld. when thief steals all from you he gets nothing except for 2k of veld and draws full aggro from your group. get yer chums in to mop him up 3. worst case: you dont know whats happening, or how things work and you somehow allow him to gain aggro on you (i.e. your drones were predeployed and attack him or something) He is probably in a battleship fireing missiles at you (because that way if anyone warps to 0 on you he is far enough away to run) thus eject from your ship and let the missiles pod you. let concorde do its job. respawn back in station, get in shuttle, fly out to your mining ship, get back in. continue mining. you may laugh now. never smack talk. it encourages them.
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:25:00 - [29] Originally by: ee21k 1. when you see possible ore thief approching, stop your miners mining, open your can, right click 'select all', drag all selected item over to your hold BUT dont release the button. When ore thief tries to take your stuff he is told that it is already in use. I really wish I'd known this one. Every days a school day!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:33:00 - [30] Originally by: Amantus Edited by: Amantus on 12/01/2007 15:32:01 Petition him for griefing? He's getting sod all from it so it's no legitimate ore thievery or piracy. He went out of his way to annoy you while gaining exactly nothing. Pretty lame tbh. Edit: Yeah about the mechanic, maybe it should be changed to having to let stuff go through your cargo. It won't screw dedicated ore theives who steal stuff legitimately but might stop griefers from doing stuff like that. I think its damn funny actually its like filling some ones house with small cups of water or covering some one with sticky notes while they are passed out drunk. Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:38:00 - [31] Anchor a couple secure cans next to you, problem solved
Jaggeh Salvage Team And Rig Suppliers	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:40:00 - [32] i completely agree with the have corpmates in gang suggestion. also have an assault ship such as an ishkur with a probe launcher in system for hunting down agro players. --------------------------------------- Carpe Pugya Pyga - Seize the Buttocks
Miri Tirzan Caldari Clan Korval	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Xelios Anchor a couple secure cans next to you, problem solved Does anyone else need to point out that is a clueless statement? Secure cans are not big enough to matter much when Ice mining. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.12 17:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Lin Dze Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk? Having gang-mates warp in with a couple battleships and then say "Hello, our names are Inigo and Montoya. You stole from our friend's can. Prepare to die." i lol'ed
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:19:00 - [35] Originally by: Miri Tirzan Originally by: Xelios Anchor a couple secure cans next to you, problem solved Does anyone else need to point out that is a clueless statement? Secure cans are not big enough to matter much when Ice mining. That's ignoring the fact that you can only anchor them 5000m apart, and 5000m away from any other cans. Not many ice fields where you can get a clear 5000m from another can.
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:21:00 - [36] Originally by: Brutor Shaun That's ignoring the fact that you can only anchor them 5000m apart, and 5000m away from any other cans. Not many ice fields where you can get a clear 5000m from another can. That and you can fill a GSC in a few minutes with Ice. Secure cans are FAR more trouble than they are worth. I suppose if you are mining with a frig it could take awhile to fill one but barges fill them so fast it's stupid.
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:23:00 - [37] Originally by: Humpalot Originally by: Brutor Shaun That's ignoring the fact that you can only anchor them 5000m apart, and 5000m away from any other cans. Not many ice fields where you can get a clear 5000m from another can. That and you can fill a GSC in a few minutes with Ice. Secure cans are FAR more trouble than they are worth. I suppose if you are mining with a frig it could take awhile to fill one but barges fill them so fast it's stupid. WTB: Ice mining frigate
Ralus eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.12 18:49:00 - [38] Originally by: ee21k 1. when you see possible ore thief approching, stop your miners mining, open your can, right click 'select all', drag all selected item over to your hold BUT dont release the button. When ore thief tries to take your stuff he is told that it is already in use. that's brilliant, I never knew you could do that.
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:25:00 - [39] If I was the guy trying to steal the stuff I would stick aroudn and see just how long the guy could keep his hand on the mouse button... His hand has gotta cramp at some point....
Trotski II Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Vladikov Orrico If I was the guy trying to steal the stuff I would stick aroudn and see just how long the guy could keep his hand on the mouse button... His hand has gotta cramp at some point.... /takes note and adds this option to macro-miner bot
David Corbett Gekidoku	Posted - 2007.01.12 22:38:00 - [41] Fun fact about mining barges: the elite ones have lots of med-slots and lock real fast. If you have guards with you, your barges can shut the enemies down with webs, scrambler, and EW while the guards pwn your enemies. Haulers are great for EW in this sort of situation, too. :) Or, more ideally, don't mine ice in crowded systems. Or keep a friend in a hauler next to you. Or mine in an anchored can. Or stop mining altogether and declare war on his corp! ---
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:20:00 - [42] Wow... Once again I find myself in the anti-ore thief thread. As a professional ore thief, I would like to chime in on some of the things that have been mentioned so far. 1. Flipping miner cans is not griefing - it is most always done with profit in mind. I flip cans in my small combat ship. Then I have someone haul the ore out (especially in the case of macro miners), or I wait for the annoyed miner to flip the can back. If the miner comes back in a combat ship, it is even better. Most miners have big, expensive, poor fitted ships, low combat skillpoints, and no combat player skill. 2. If you (or your corpmates) indeed do have nice combat ships, and enough skillpoints where it matters - why are you still mining high sec ore into jetcans? No, you won't win a fight with an experienced ore thief - even if he is in a small ship or a hauler. No, it is not profitable for your corpmates to guard 27000 m3 of Scordite in three Caldari Navy Ravens. 3. If you attack a thief's hauler, you become flagged to the thief for the next 15 minutes. Yes, you can destroy the cheap hauler. Expect the "thief" to come back at you in the next 30 seconds in an AF, HAC, or a battleship, and open up on you with all the modules he has fitted. And he will have better modules and skills than you do, not to mention the player skill. I use this "I am just stealing ore" trick all the time, I have lost 3-4 Iteron Mark IIs, and I have killed and looted quite a few mining barges and escort ships. My friendly advice to all miners: -never, ever, ever mine afk -don't mine in jetcans -if you do mine in a jetcan, and if your can got flipped, don't fight (you WILL lose), and don't flip it back -convo the thief and try to come to a mutually beneficial agreement (pay him a few million for leaving your corp alone for a week, or promise him some percentage from your mining - and keep your word) -use an alt in a shuttle or Velator to flip the can back (don't lose that battleship of yours - you WILL lose it, and your ore too) -if the thief warped out right after the flip, use your scanner to see where he is -watch local for his corpmates ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:32:00 - [43] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 13/01/2007 01:28:47 I see no problem with transfering, that's merely another technicque of ore thefth, and that's allright. However, transferring particularly with the idea of destroying, well, that could be different, sounds awfully grieffy to me tbh, unless maytbe there's a war situation at hand. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Quilan Ziller 2. If you (or your corpmates) indeed do have nice combat ships, and enough skillpoints where it matters - why are you still mining high sec ore into jetcans? Expect the "thief" to come back at you in the next 30 seconds in an AF, HAC, or a battleship, and open up on you with all the modules he has fitted. And he will have better modules and skills than you do, not to mention the player skill. Why would a highly combat skilled af ,hac or bs pilot waste time with ore stealing from noobs in high sec ? Oh pls.., ore thiefs are not an elite pwn3n gang, if they steal from you, get some experienced friends and bomb them back to stone age, or just ignore them and go watching some tv..
InigoMontoya Amarr KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.13 01:36:00 - [45] Originally by: Lin Dze Originally by: Brutor Shaun In fact, the more I think about this, the more I'm thinking RISK Vs REWARD!!! My risk was using a jetcan... where was his risk? Having gang-mates warp in with a couple battleships and then say "Hello, our names are Inigo and Montoya. You stole from our friend's can. Prepare to die." It is true, we can (for a fee) help defend against this sort of issue.
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Venkhar Krard Why would a highly combat skilled af ,hac or bs pilot waste time with ore stealing from noobs in high sec ? Oh pls.., ore thiefs are not an elite pwn3n gang, if they steal from you, get some experienced friends and bomb them back to stone age, or just ignore them and go watching some tv.. You have posed a good question, and I will give you some good answers. 1. It can be very, very profitable. No, not the high sec ore itself, obviously. But if I flag and gank an unsuspecting hauler, I can make quite a bit of ISK from those named or T2 cargo expanders. If I gank an "escort" ship, I can score some good named mods. If I gank a barge - I get various flavors of Strip Miners. Which the victim will, most probably, buy right back from me. I speak from experience here... Most of my income used to come from 0.0 ratting, but now I rarely jump into my clone in Stain anymore - high sec rats^H^H^H^H^H hard working miners drop better loot. Then there is the whole "protection" racket... 2. It is sooo fun! Sometimes people in high sec mine with [drumroll] faction battleships, and think it is a very smart idea. Sometimes they use their Hulk to sic a few small kinetic drones on a "thieving" Ishkur, and then don't pay the ransom. Yet other times they get half their corp concordokken'd, smack in local and think it was a bug. Or they bring a Raven fitted with large Projectile turrets to kill a "thief". Macro miners are a separate issue - have you ever been smacked in chinese? 3. Almost every big, well organized mining op I have attacked have tried to bring in some "experienced friends" to bomb me to kingdom come. The result, sadly for them, has been the opposite most of the time. Most people don't even have a complete understanding of high sec aggression rules. Even if they don't get concordokken'd straight out, they usually just add to the body count. 4. No, I don't have any overly uber skills, and have never claimed that. However, if someone approximately 6 months old or less flies a Hulk, or mines/escorts miners in that shiny battleship, it is obvious that I will win the fight 10 times out of 10 ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:44:00 - [47] Originally by: Venkhar Krard Why would a highly combat skilled af ,hac or bs pilot waste time with ore stealing from noobs in high sec ? Oh pls.., ore thiefs are not an elite pwn3n gang, if they steal from you, get some experienced friends and bomb them back to stone age, or just ignore them and go watching some tv.. You have posed a good question, and I will give you some good answers. 1. It can be very, very profitable. No, not the high sec ore itself, obviously. But if I flag and gank an unsuspecting hauler, I can make quite a bit of ISK from those named or T2 cargo expanders. If I gank an "escort" ship, I can score some good named mods. If I gank a barge - I get various flavors of Strip Miners. Which the victim will, most probably, buy right back from me. I speak from experience here... Most of my income used to come from 0.0 ratting, but now I rarely jump into my clone in Stain anymore - high sec rats^H^H^H^H^H hard working miners drop better loot. Then there is the whole "protection" racket... 2. It is sooo fun! Sometimes people in high sec mine with [drumroll] faction battleships, and think it is a very smart idea. Sometimes they use their Hulk to sic a few small kinetic drones on a "thieving" Ishkur, and then don't pay the ransom. Yet other times they get half their corp concordokken'd, smack in local and think it was a bug. Or they bring a Raven fitted with large Projectile turrets to kill a "thief". Macro miners are a separate issue - have you ever been smacked in chinese? 3. Almost every big, well organized mining op I have attacked have tried to bring in some "experienced friends" to bomb me to kingdom come. The result, sadly for them, has been the opposite most of the time. Most people don't even have a complete understanding of high sec aggression rules. Even if they don't get concordokken'd straight out, they usually just add to the body count. 4. No, I don't have any overly uber skills, and have never claimed that. However, if someone approximately 6 months old or less flies a Hulk, or mines/escorts miners in that shiny battleship, it is obvious that I will win the fight 10 times out of 10 ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:47:00 - [48] Originally by: InigoMontoya Having gang-mates warp in with a couple battleships and then say "Hello, our names are Inigo and Montoya. You stole from our friend's can. Prepare to die." It is true, we can (for a fee) help defend against this sort of issue. Gang members don't get an aggro flag against a thief. The flag is limited to the corp itself. You will be able to jet your can for the miners to mine into, but it will be of only very limited utility (OK, I have to stop divulging my trade secrets at this point) ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.13 02:47:00 - [49] Originally by: InigoMontoya Having gang-mates warp in with a couple battleships and then say "Hello, our names are Inigo and Montoya. You stole from our friend's can. Prepare to die." It is true, we can (for a fee) help defend against this sort of issue. Gang members don't get an aggro flag against a thief. The flag is limited to the corp itself. You will be able to jet your can for the miners to mine into, but it will be of only very limited utility (OK, I have to stop divulging my trade secrets at this point) ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.13 03:00:00 - [50] Oh, I have one more observation to add to this thread. I have noticed that "ore thief" is one of the most hated professions in EVE - right up there with corp thieves aka social engineers, and suicide gankers. There are plenty of anti-ore thief threads on these forums. If a practicing thief is being caught red-handed, some very unprofessional smack in local is almost a certainty. Ransoming ore is almost out of question - a lot of miners I meet would rather have the ore can blown up than pay a reasonable 500K fee to get their prized possession back. Can flagging and thieving is the only viable way of high sec piracy. It can be quite risky - more so than the traditional low sec piracy. Concord is on your victim's side, your friends can't help you. If you made a bad choice of target, you lose your ship. Yet, we ore thieves, are not getting any respect of the kind traditional low sec pirates do Why is it so? ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.01.13 03:05:00 - [51] 1. Originally by: Lord WarATron Blowing up a can activates a 15 minute timer that is reset if he logs off before the 15mins is up. You probe him out and have all the time in the world to get a noobship kill on him! And yes - I have tested this - You stay for 15mins in space after you log if you blow up a can! And ore theft aggro is 15 mins anyway so work it out and blow up his ship :) 2. Changing these transfer mechanics will break a lot of stuff, especially in "friendly" situations.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.01.13 04:07:00 - [52] Ought to be able to retake your ore from another can without getting flagged. After all, it is yours. If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a better browser.
Tarquin Tarquinius Gallente Etruscan Kings	Posted - 2007.01.13 04:14:00 - [53] going back to the original question, I don't think it is a problem with game mechanics. I don't see why you should need space in your cargo bay, you're putting the ore there. You're transfering it from one can to another. Even if you did need cargo space, it wouldn't stop this from happening. It would just be done at about ~400m3 at a time. ----- Traditional morality is just a clever way for the weak masses to shackle the strong individual. -- Callicles
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2007.01.13 04:31:00 - [54] First of all, we don't go after thieves that go for more than 5k isk worth of ore. Secondly, i run both a hauler and protection, meaning that i jet the cans from my bestower while a corp mate fills it. We try to keep it empty most of the time. Thirdly on the rare occasion that there is ore in the can and someone jacks it i will come back in an assault frig with a scrambler or an abaddon with a scrambler. Pop their ship and hold their pod for the better part of an hour. Its mildly evil but there is no sec hit or concordukken. ------------- Midshipman Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.13 04:37:00 - [55] The only thing I can possibly see wrong with this is that when you flip the ore to a new can the person who might eventually pick it up and haul it away would not get flaged. So potentially it could be abused by someone sitting in a scout ship I suppose but I can't imagine actually avoiding the PvP flag is very useful in the first place.
Quilan Ziller Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.13 04:49:00 - [56] Edited by: Quilan Ziller on 13/01/2007 04:48:17 Originally by: Lithalnas First of all, we don't go after thieves that go for more than 5k isk worth of ore. Secondly, i run both a hauler and protection, meaning that i jet the cans from my bestower while a corp mate fills it. We try to keep it empty most of the time. Thirdly on the rare occasion that there is ore in the can and someone jacks it i will come back in an assault frig with a scrambler or an abaddon with a scrambler. Pop their ship and hold their pod for the better part of an hour. Its mildly evil but there is no sec hit or concordukken. You, sir, have just won the prize for the most BS post in the whole thread. First of all, if you try to scramble the thieve's pod AFTER popping his ship, you WILL get concordokken'd. Right away, with extreme prejudice. That's a hard fact. Not that you will be able to easily lock a pod with a battleship oreven an AF. Second, it takes more than 20 seconds to change ships when you dock. Add warping time to that. Do you think an ore thief is still going to be sitting in the belt waiting for your Abaddon with aggro to your entire corp? If he is - good for you. But not many people will. Not me for sure, and not anyone I know. When you post, try to stick to your area of expertise so as not to embarrass yourself like you just did. People like you are what makes ore thieving and high sec piracy so fun. Yes, you have exaggerated your achievements your post, but I bet you DO come after ore thieves in poorly fitted Abaddons. What system do you mine in, incidentally? Any Local Hull Conversions on your Abaddon I should know of? Maybe a good damage control? ______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2007.01.13 05:05:00 - [57] Edited by: Lithalnas on 13/01/2007 05:02:20 Originally by: Quilan Ziller Edited by: Quilan Ziller on 13/01/2007 04:48:17 You, sir, have just won the prize for the most BS post in the whole thread. First of all, if you try to scramble the thieve's pod AFTER popping his ship, you WILL get concordokken'd. Right away, with extreme prejudice. That's a hard fact. Not that you will be able to easily lock a pod with a battleship oreven an AF. Second, it takes more than 20 seconds to change ships when you dock. Add warping time to that. Do you think an ore thief is still going to be sitting in the belt waiting for your Abaddon with aggro to your entire corp? If he is - good for you. But not many people will. Not me for sure, and not anyone I know. When you post, try to stick to your area of expertise so as not to embarrass yourself like you just did. People like you are what makes ore thieving and high sec piracy so fun. Yes, you have exaggerated your achievements your post, but I bet you DO come after ore thieves in poorly fitted Abaddons. What system do you mine in, incidentally? Any Local Hull Conversions on your Abaddon I should know of? Maybe a good damage control? then why did i do it in xxx system 2 days ago in an interceptor, granted he shot back at my interceptor. My ship is still intact as far as i can tell. AND if you don't believe me here is a screen shot. This was the 2nd or 3rd noob ship he lost after swapping cans. Notice the 0.5 sec. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/KhanProject/undergank2.jpg ------------- Midshipman Lithalnas - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.13 06:44:00 - [58] Sorry this isn't an exploit. There are a few ways to get around this. One would be to train anchoring skill and transfer to an anchored secure can if you need to mine alone. They hold around 3900 cubic meters for the Giant Secure Container. You can't place them closer than 5km from each other or asteroids. So you could set up 2 or 3 and then haul when you can. The other solution would be to have a buddy ganged with you to help you keep an eye out for ore thieves. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.01.13 06:54:00 - [59] The capacity of the secure cans suck balls. It's not a real option. If alone, warp to base on every full cargo-hold. Even if it's a 1.0 space... especially if it's a 1.0 space. If you can spare 12 bucks a month (using GTC), get a 2nd account and use it as your hauler.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.13 06:56:00 - [60] I do agree we need secure cans that can hold more :), but I disagree that its not a viable solution :) I'd love to have one that held around 13000 cubic meters and took up 10k cubic meters space. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2007.01.13 06:59:00 - [61] Well, if the secure can has less capacity than my barge's cargo-hold... ehm... don't sound viable to me.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 08:55:00 - [62] The position in the OP is clear, and this IS a case of griefing. If he deliberately spoilt your gameplay, and that was the sole intent of his actions, then it is griefing. If he had kept even 1 unit of ice it would not have been. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.13 09:17:00 - [63] Of course it's griefing. But this is Eve, that's practically the selling point.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 09:20:00 - [64] Originally by: Cipher7 Of course it's griefing. But this is Eve, that's practically the selling point. No, it is griefing as in the sort disallowed by the TOS, not the same. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.01.13 09:32:00 - [65] B(l)oB preaching people about griefing .. priceless Stealing your ore and then blowing it up is legimate game play. Stop calling it griefing. Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore (aka. stupid).
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.13 09:53:00 - [66] Originally by: Kuolematon Stealing your ore and then blowing it up is legimate game play. No, it IS griefing. If I do something just to annoy you, then it is griefing (as defined by the TOS). If I do something legitimate, which has the side effect of causing you grief, it isn't griefing. Capiche? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.01.13 10:56:00 - [67] Originally by: Avon If I do something just to annoy you, then it is griefing (as defined by the TOS) Aww Avon, wheres the love gone man? Your annoying me by killing cool carebear alliances .. is that exploit? Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore (aka. stupid).
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:13:00 - [68] Edited by: Venkhar Krard on 13/01/2007 11:10:59 Originally by: Jaggeh also have an assault ship such as an ishkur with a probe launcher in system for hunting down agro players. AF ships dont have enought CPU to fit a recon launcher ;]

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