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Cerwyn Taraman
Minmatar
Phoenix Tech Industries
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.03.04 07:18:00 -
[61]
Better question, where is Rebuen? I made the mistake of buying into GAINS off of RESX and then getting hit with liquidation a few days later :-/ :-/
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c1iche
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Posted - 2007.03.04 17:57:00 -
[62]
Kasia: I appreciate the amount paid out was > IPO price for the shares, which lends some credence to this not being a scam.
BUT
value paid out at liquidation was 101% of the initial payment (ie 505M)
Corp value at 17-02 was 2157M
Someone has run off with 1.6 billion ISK
I can only assume this is Rebuen
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Jaedar Metron
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.04 21:08:00 -
[63]
Gettin hit by the scamhammer, C1? 
I regrettetf not buying any shares in this one until I saw these last posts 
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c1iche
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Posted - 2007.03.04 22:37:00 -
[64]
My hope is that the missing isk is now in a freighter + skillbooks or similar, and Rebuen is setting up a new corp for his planned expansion and will convert our shares.
Sadly the lack of a message from Rebuen is going to lead people to assume the worst.
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Mular Sumnar
Gallente
Espire
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Posted - 2007.03.05 01:07:00 -
[65]
Just hope everything in RL is ok for him.
Hope to hear from you soon Rebuen.
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c1iche
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Posted - 2007.03.05 07:50:00 -
[66]
I wonder... Prof Bunsen appeared on the same weekend Rebuen disappeared.
Related?
(disclaimer: I have given Bunsen some isk)
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Sophie Marceaux
Akhetaten
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Posted - 2007.03.05 08:23:00 -
[67]
 Originally by: c1iche
I wonder... Prof Bunsen appeared on the same weekend Rebuen disappeared.
Related?
(disclaimer: I have given Bunsen some isk)
hmmm, I think the 'style' is a little different but you never know.
Also, having checked on this after the liquidation, Rebuens main 'Wolfotron' left his corp 2 weeks ago...
Now, this is from memory as not in-game but I believe 'wolfotron' was the founder and CEO of a 40 man corp and had been in-game for ages..... also, his main 'leaving' 2 weeks before Rebuen seems a risky thing to do regarding raising suspicions - why not just have them both leave on the same day?
I this case, I would suggest scam is unlikely for only a couple of bil. I have a feeling that maybe RL has intervened - in which case I hope everything is ok
Maybe the new CEO of 'Wolfotron's old corp can shed some light?
Sophie
PS I invested in Rebuen right at the start and have done the same with Bunsen.
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Block Ukx
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Posted - 2007.03.05 12:37:00 -
[68]
Votee,
I agree this seems suspicious, and IÆm not taking sides with GAINS. If it was BSAC, I would have paid out NAV, as it is clearly stated in our Certificate of Incorporation.
However, if you read his original [GAINS] Initial investment thread, you will find no liquidation clause. But, it is clearly stated that the ôMaximal buyback price after February 1st: 1,150,000 ISK / share.ö
IÆm trying to be objective here, but in the absence of a liquidation clause, I canÆt find any wrong doing in GAINS liquidation. Any investor expecting more than 1,150,000 per share didnÆt read his IPO thread carefully.
Having people trying to turn this into a scam can only hurt the very few public corps still out there.
Block Ukx
BSAC President
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c1iche
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Posted - 2007.03.05 18:36:00 -
[69]
Surely anyone with serious RL issues would just disappear?
If he had time to pay out final dividends, liquidate the corp, cancel the wordpress account etc, why not enough to jot a quick sentence on the boards?
I agree it's hardly a huge amount to run away with but as a "Recent graduate with a 20M inheritance" it might be a lot to that character? (RP-wise)
Block: Whether this is a proper "scam" or not, it's uncertainty - and that uncertainty will definitely hurt the other public corps.
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Votee
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Posted - 2007.03.07 01:56:00 -
[70]
I strongly disagree that if there is no liquidation clause, then you only have to pay back the original investment amount if you liquidate a company.
As far as I know if you buy an ordinary share - not taking priority or preference shares into account - then you are partially own the company including all assets, debts, cash, everything.
For example if you bought 1% stake, then 1% of the total company value is yours, and it has nothing to do with the original share price or with the price you paid for that stake.
In the case of liquidation, you are still entitled as much percentage of company value as much percentage stake you have in the company.
This is the general rule.
And because there is no mention of liquidation in the original thread, then general rules apply.
In every kind of contract or agreement always the general rules apply, except those thing which are mentioned in the contract.
A contract or an agreement is practically a collection of things where not the general rules apply.
Some more info:
I was online about for an hour just before the payment took place and I was online when the money actually was paid out as well. He just logged in and in a few seconds money started to roll in. I tried to convo him, which he didnt refused, but went offline in about 3 minutes without answering it.
I sent him a mail asking for some info. One and a half day later came the answer that that char is under a new owner, because of RL issues of the original owner, and the original one will never come back.
And if you consider that the freighter alone could be sold for at least 800m in a few minutes, then I am pretty convinced that there was no liquidation whatsoever, rather original share price payback took place. And the excuse of new owner because of RL issues is one of the most used excuse of scammers after scamming.
If you put it all together, it doesnt make any sense, because in a way it was a kind scam, because he didnt paid out everything what the shareholders entitled to, but the other hand all the original investors booked about 60% profit on this venture, only those were screwed who bought at inflated price.
regards,
Votee
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