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Cerb + heavy assault missiles ... am i doing something wrong ?

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Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.14 14:34:00 - [31] Originally by: Dragy I don't like hit'n'run ship. If i'm outnumbered and outgunned i want to sacrifice myself in the name of freedom ! Having an option between killing one ship and running and killing no ship and dying and choosing dying doesn't make you a hero. It makes you a moron. Sacrifice is suicide if you don't do it to achieve some goal. Sigs are for noobs.
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.14 14:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Krulla Originally by: Dragy I don't like hit'n'run ship. If i'm outnumbered and outgunned i want to sacrifice myself in the name of freedom ! Having an option between killing one ship and running and killing no ship and dying and choosing dying doesn't make you a hero. It makes you a moron. Sacrifice is suicide if you don't do it to achieve some goal. Why killing no ship ? I would have a chance, if i haven't it'd be pointless to try. Vaga is ugly besides.
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.14 16:19:00 - [33] Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Krulla Originally by: Dragy I don't like hit'n'run ship. If i'm outnumbered and outgunned i want to sacrifice myself in the name of freedom ! Having an option between killing one ship and running and killing no ship and dying and choosing dying doesn't make you a hero. It makes you a moron. Sacrifice is suicide if you don't do it to achieve some goal. Why killing no ship ? I would have a chance, if i haven't it'd be pointless to try. Vaga is ugly besides. My point was, self-sacrifice is pointless if there's no real gain. If you can choose between killing one ship, running away, and living to fight another day and killing one ship, and dying, well, there's no point to running, now is there? Sigs are for noobs.
Hex'Caliber Gallente Mirage Industries	Posted - 2007.01.14 17:04:00 - [34] Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 14/01/2007 17:01:19 I will put this as simply as I am able, the Deimos is a turd. To fit ions with an mwd (essential for a blaster ship) and a mar 2 you need at least one rcu. If you want to try and fit one with neutrons and three damage mods be my guest, enjoy looking at that last high slot that always sits empty and the huge explosive hole in your 2k armour, you wonÆt fly it too often. Only three mid slots so you cannot tackle and fit a cap booster, it is a one trick pony, and that is as a damage dealer for small gang gank squads. You may as well train Gallente BS 5 and fly a megathron that does far more dps, is cheaper, and can fit a reasonable tank with neutrons, to fill the gank role. SISI testing ôDonÆt forget to start the log server before the client; the logs are needed for bug reports when something goes wrong.ö Regards HexCaliber
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.14 17:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Hex'Caliber Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 14/01/2007 17:01:19 I will put this as simply as I am able, the Deimos is a turd. To fit ions with an mwd (essential for a blaster ship) and a mar 2 you need at least one rcu. If you want to try and fit one with neutrons and three damage mods be my guest, enjoy looking at that last high slot that always sits empty and the huge explosive hole in your 2k armour, you wonÆt fly it too often. Only three mid slots so you cannot tackle and fit a cap booster, it is a one trick pony, and that is as a damage dealer for small gang gank squads. You may as well train Gallente BS 5 and fly a megathron that does far more dps, is cheaper, and can fit a reasonable tank with neutrons, to fill the gank role. 5 x Ion II's AWU 0 = 790 1 x 10mn Named MWD = 150 1 x MAR II = 175 Total 1115 Base PG 950: Minimum PG due to engineering 5 as a requirement to Assault ships: 1187.5 1187.5-1115= 72.5 Enough for an MWD, and MARII. Cant squese an injector in there, but you only have 4 mid slots anyway. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.14 17:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Hex'Caliber Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 14/01/2007 17:01:19 I will put this as simply as I am able, the Deimos is a turd. To fit ions with an mwd (essential for a blaster ship) and a mar 2 you need at least one rcu. If you want to try and fit one with neutrons and three damage mods be my guest, enjoy looking at that last high slot that always sits empty and the huge explosive hole in your 2k armour, you won’t fly it too often. Only three mid slots so you cannot tackle and fit a cap booster, it is a one trick pony, and that is as a damage dealer for small gang gank squads. You may as well train Gallente BS 5 and fly a megathron that does far more dps, is cheaper, and can fit a reasonable tank with neutrons, to fill the gank role. 5 x Ion II's AWU 0 = 790 1 x 10mn Named MWD = 150 1 x MAR II = 175 Total 1115 Base PG 950: Minimum PG due to engineering 5 as a requirement to Assault ships: 1187.5 1187.5-1115= 72.5 Enough for an MWD, and MARII. Cant squese an injector in there, but you only have 4 mid slots anyway. 3 med slots and with AWU lvl5 (which i have) you'll have : 151,5 pg left. And don't forget that you can buy rigs without any drawback and they give you additional 10% pg. What ya say for that ?
Hex'Caliber Gallente Mirage Industries	Posted - 2007.01.14 18:38:00 - [37] Originally by: Goumindong 5 x Ion II's AWU 0 = 790 1 x 10mn Named MWD = 150 1 x MAR II = 175 Total 1115 Base PG 950: Minimum PG due to engineering 5 as a requirement to Assault ships: 1187.5 1187.5-1115= 72.5 Enough for an MWD, and MARII. Cant squese an injector in there, but you only have 4 mid slots anyway. Yes, now fill the rest of your slots, the last high will sit empty without an rcu, unless you think there is some point to fitting a small nos on a cruiser class ship, sucking 9 energy every 3 seconds is clearly going to kill the cap on anything but a frigate not! It certainly isnÆt enough to sustain cap drain from t2 ions using am. With the recent changes every man and his dog with any sense is fitting nos now. A small neutralizer is not viable on the Deimos because of cap constraints. If you had ever flown a blaster ship, you would understand why cap is so important. If you opt to try and fit some sort of tank you cannot fit anything larger than a 400mm plate without an rcu so are stuck at about 3k armour. You may think a gank ship needs no tank, just try getting into blaster range while running an mwd without one, unless you can warp in on top of your target every time (one trick pony). If you are operating as a one trick pony and can drop some tackling gear to free up a mid for a cap booster you still need an rcu to fit it. An additional point, if you opt for three damage mods, wait and see how long your cap will last running your tackling gear, and 5 t2 ions without a nos or cap booster after mwd'ing into range, and god forbid you actually have to run a few cycles on your rep too. Oh and the Deimos has three mid slots not four. The bottom line is that the deimos offers nothing that other classes cannot do as well if not better and cheaper, it is slower than its t1 counterpart, really great idea for a ship that needs to get into range quickly. SISI testing ôDonÆt forget to start the log server before the client; the logs are needed for bug reports when something goes wrong.ö Regards HexCaliber
Hex'Caliber Gallente Mirage Industries	Posted - 2007.01.14 18:38:00 - [38] Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 14/01/2007 18:37:36 Originally by: Dragy 3 med slots and with AWU lvl5 (which i have) you'll have : 151,5 pg left. And don't forget that you can buy rigs without any drawback and they give you additional 10% pg. What ya say for that ? I am fully aware of pg rigs, fine waste your two rig slots using pg rigs to make up for a ships design flaws while every other hac is using them to fill holes in their tank, to improve weapon tracking, improve cap regen, et al, adding even more cost to an already over priced sack of cack. Only an idiot uses expensive rigs on a turd trying to make it viable . SISI testing ôDonÆt forget to start the log server before the client; the logs are needed for bug reports when something goes wrong.ö Regards HexCaliber
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.14 20:15:00 - [39] Originally by: Hex'Caliber Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 14/01/2007 18:59:10 Originally by: Dragy 3 med slots and with AWU lvl5 (which i have) you'll have : 151,5 pg left. And don't forget that you can buy rigs without any drawback and they give you additional 10% pg. What ya say for that ? I am fully aware of pg rigs, fine waste your two rig slots using pg rigs to make up for a ships design flaws while every other hac is using them to fill holes in their tank, to improve weapon tracking, improve cap regen, et al, adding even more cost to an already over priced sack of cack. Only an idiot uses expensive rigs on a turd trying to make it viable . We are still only talking about a hac using mid damage blasters, now try fitting t2 neutrons. The idea of gank over tank is to get the most damage possible, that would be a fitting using neutrons on a deimos with 3 damage mods, with a fitting that allows you to sustain your cap. You can fit it with neutrons, 3 dmg mods, mwd without any problem. You won't have any spare pg to do anything else. But still you'll fit for gank, which is approx 800 raw pure dps from a cruiser
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.14 21:40:00 - [40] Edited by: Goumindong on 14/01/2007 21:37:11 Originally by: Hex'Caliber Yes, now fill the rest of your slots, the last high will sit empty without an rcu, unless you think there is some point to fitting a small nos on a cruiser class ship, sucking 9 energy every 3 seconds is clearly going to kill the cap on anything but a frigate not! It certainly isnÆt enough to sustain cap drain from t2 ions using am. With the recent changes every man and his dog with any sense is fitting nos now. A small neutralizer is not viable on the Deimos because of cap constraints. If you had ever flown a blaster ship, you would understand why cap is so important. If you opt to try and fit some sort of tank you cannot fit anything larger than a 400mm plate without an rcu so are stuck at about 3k armour. You may think a gank ship needs no tank, just try getting into blaster range while running an mwd without one, unless you can warp in on top of your target every time (one trick pony). If you are operating as a one trick pony and can drop some tackling gear to free up a mid for a cap booster you still need an rcu to fit it. An additional point, if you opt for three damage mods, wait and see how long your cap will last running your tackling gear, and 5 t2 ions without a nos or cap booster after mwd'ing into range, and god forbid you actually have to run a few cycles on your rep too. Oh and the Deimos has three mid slots not four. The bottom line is that the deimos offers nothing that other classes cannot do as well if not better and cheaper, it is slower than its t1 counterpart, really great idea for a ship that needs to get into range quickly. Oh no, you cant fit a NOS. Why if only there were any other ships that cant fill their high slots when running a full gank setup. Like the Zealot, Prophecy, Armageddon, Harbinger, Omen, Maller, Punisher.... [And the only 4 mid slot ship in that line up is the Harbinger just so you know] I truely feel sorry for the fact that one of your ships, in a line up of stupendously versitile and powerful ships is only able to be a 600 DPS ship with a set of ECM drones as a one trick pony. Also, stick an i-stab or nano in that extra low slot you get and the Deimos is not slower than a Thorax. Yea, the Deimos is not as nice a value as the Ishtar or the Brutix/Myrmadon, its rough, but all of the HAC's are for specialized roles, and all but the vagabond and the ishtar are nearly obsoleted by their battlecruiser cousins All of them when not filling a specialized role. Run a deimos fast, and stick rails on it, it should do better than trying to mix it up with bigger ships in bigger ships wheelhouse. ed: Use your dronebay well, they are there for a reason, and that reason is not nessesarily damage. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

Hex'Caliber Gallente Mirage Industries	Posted - 2007.01.15 00:21:00 - [41] The op posted that the curb sucks and he would be better training for a Deimos, I pointed out why that is wrong, if he wants to fly a Gallente hac he is better off with an Ishtar or sticking with a bs or bc. The whole point is that it is useless in comparison to other hacÆs, it is the worst by far, it needs nos or cap boosters to sustain the cap drain when using t2 ions, damage mods and am, never mind messing about with neutrons. It cannot sustain cap drain without some way of boosting cap, be that nos (needs an rcu to fit that with ions), cap boosters (which it cant fit with tackling gear and would need an rcu anyway). It has absolutely no dps once it runs out of cap, now with hp increases for t1 cruisers at 25% as opposed to the hac's 12.5% and cap increases it can have a hard time breaking the tank on many t1 cruiser's if it has to use its mwd or mar before it's cap is empty. Most deimos pilots fit electrons in order to fit that valuable nos, but imho that negates the whole point of a ship designed as a damage dealer. You say it is specialised, 150 mil for a ship that cannot be flown solo and requires the sp investment it does when there are t1 cruisers in the game that can kill it easily, and kill it they do, is ridiculous not specialised. Its lock on time is longer than all but three of the t1 cruisers in the game; it is also slower than all but three of the t1 cruisers in the game with a couple that match its speed, then throw in the fitting problems already pointed out and there is absolutely no good reason for flying one. I have killed more than one deimos 1 v 1 in a Vexor without breaking a sweat, a single med nos kills it faster than the pilot can blink and I can tank them long enough to drain them dry. Once nosed it can't mwd out of range, cant rep, cant fire guns, is too slow without mwd to escape scram range and itÆs single complement of t2 med drones goes down quickly to a couple of rails while drones tear it a new one. I have also killed them using the celestis, sit at 12kmÆs with a 15k scram, keep them damped and they cant do a damn thing as they havenÆt a chance in hell of catching me when I use an mwd. It is also similarly raped by stabbers, which just kite it outside webbing range, there are three t1 cruisers I know, that have absolutely no fear 1 v 1 against a deimos and I am sure there are pilots flying other t1 cruisers who have no problems with them either. As a t2 Heavy assault cruiser, it shouldnÆt have so many problemsÆ one on one against t1 cruisers. I have flown the Deimos and killed other cruisers with it, but in nearly every case, they were complete morons who panicked or didnÆt know how to fit their ships. If it were able to fulfil its role, the recent capsuleer competition would have been an ideal place to field them, with limited ranges making it easy to get into range to dish out their supposed ôawesome dps.ö The few times they were fielded, they died quickly and miserably without making any impact on the opposing team. Oh and do stop taking the dps quoted for blasters as listed by quick fit as gospel, it isnÆt, it is complete fantasy. I have yet to see any combat log generated in game for blasters that comes close to the dps quoted by that piece of software, in most cases even at optimal the dps are more than 40% lower. I wonÆt even comment on the stupid idea of fitting an out an out blaster ship with rails. SISI testing ôDonÆt forget to start the log server before the client; the logs are needed for bug reports when something goes wrong.ö Regards HexCaliber
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.15 00:22:00 - [42] I like to fly all race ceptor's and most of the ships out there. It's not becasue of what the fotm is, it's becasue i just like to be versatile and enjoy flying whatever takes my fancy, usually whatever ship suits the op im going to be going on best. Pos siege, roaming gang, fleet battle etc.
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.15 14:33:00 - [43] Someone said that every hac is for different purpose. Maybe a Deimos is a small gang ship, sometimes solo. But if you're soloing be sure that you don't encounter any myrmidon (or how you call it).
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.15 15:24:00 - [44] Originally by: Dragy Someone said that every hac is for different purpose. Maybe a Deimos is a small gang ship, sometimes solo. But if you're soloing be sure that you don't encounter any myrmidon (or how you call it). That is a pretty general rule though ;) ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Jehovah Cooper Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.15 15:37:00 - [45] Maybe its role is salvaged ship. Not salvager, salvaged. In small gang it should probably always be called primary (maybe right after an EW if there is one) because you can take out a lot of DPS very quickly by popping this ship. Whereas Brutix does about the same damage and if it gets called primary (in a small gang say 3-4 ships) it can tank long enough to have some relevance - and the fact that they have to focus fire on a ship with tanking ability can really change the dynamic of the fight.
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.15 16:48:00 - [46] Why don't I see any Deimos setups posted using 1600mm plates, like the Thorax setups? I suspect the Deimos would be a more reasonable proposition if it were ~60m, so losing one costs only a bit more than an expensively fitted BC.
Centurin Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.15 17:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Vasiliyan Why don't I see any Deimos setups posted using 1600mm plates, like the Thorax setups? Because then you'd be fitting small blasters ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:26:00 - [48] You can find electron setups with 800 plate. But when i learn to fly this baby on sisi, i'm 100% sure that i can think of a nice setup for her
Xasz G.H.O.S.T	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:10:00 - [49] Meh. My gripe with the Deimos is that I can grab an Ishtar and do everything the Deimos can, ten times better. Oh well, Drake > Cerb, Brutix > Deimos. Not much variety.
OrangeAfroMan Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:15:00 - [50] Originally by: Dragy Maybe Deimos is fragile, but it'll be my Deimos! And i can get myself ishtar and other useful ships then. Orange, wanna bet that noone of your beloved ships will win vs an Eos ? Eos is mean :(

Hex'Caliber Gallente Mirage Industries	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:29:00 - [51] Originally by: Dragy Someone said that every hac is for different purpose. Maybe a Deimos is a small gang ship, sometimes solo. But if you're soloing be sure that you don't encounter any myrmidon (or how you call it). As I already said, it is a one trick pony working well in small gank squads, where it can generally survive long enough to have its dps count. It doesnÆt need to worry about tackling as someone else can fit that bill, then you are free to slap in that rcu and add a cap booster or nos, or pop in a couple of cap rechargerÆs, although personally I would use the ishtar in that instance. However, it is not just the myrm BC you have to worry about; every bc in game will take out a deimos easily as will a few of the t1 cruisers too. It is a damn shame; I still keep mine and would love it to carry out its role a little better to make risking the isk spent on it worthwhile for pvp. The debate about hacÆs in general taking on and beating bcÆs one on one, is better left for another thread. Of course, there are die hard blaster fans who will stick with a deimos come hell or high water and defend it to the hilt, I am also a blaster fan having more points in gunnery than any other skill area, but those sp are better used flying a mega or hyperion. If I feel the urge to use medium hybrids, I fly a brutix, cheaper, easier to fit, and with its higher hp and rep bonus, better survivability. On paper, the Deimos looks like it should be a great hac, in practice it sucks too much to be used in preference over any other hac or bc. I guess some one has to have the worst hac in game and it is easily replaced by the Ishtar anyway, which really is a demon powerhouse. The ishtar is a ship I would heartily recommend to anyone, that is of course, until something is done about nos being the current i-win button . SISI testing ôDonÆt forget to start the log server before the client; the logs are needed for bug reports when something goes wrong.ö Regards HexCaliber
Monkeera	Posted - 2007.02.16 22:38:00 - [52] Originally by: Hex'Caliber lots of stuff Dear Hex, this is your CEO , please get off the forums and come play the game. We miss you. love , Fog
Fog Render	Posted - 2007.02.16 22:40:00 - [53] ooops wrong char
Marquis Dean Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.02.16 23:09:00 - [54] Does anyone have any viable HAM Cerb setups then? ------ ------ Originally by: Crag Heyder I'm not talking FPS here, it's SPF.
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 23:11:00 - [55] and the Zealot is one gun slot short of being good. _________________________________________
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.02.16 23:12:00 - [56] Originally by: Marquis Dean Does anyone have any viable HAM Cerb setups then? Actually i don't think that it'd help ... you'd deal about 400 dps maybe 500 with 2-3 dmg mdos. Cerb shoudl have more tanking slots available. With HAM's you need to stay to your target close, so i wouldn't think that it's a good idea ... but willing to check it out on the test server.
Marquis Dean Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.02.16 23:18:00 - [57] It wouldn't be solo, so that free's up slots for a web and mwd. It's really a question of whether you can tank properly with 4 slots (after the ab) and if you have enough grid. ------ ------ Originally by: Crag Heyder I'm not talking FPS here, it's SPF.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.16 23:40:00 - [58] Why use HAMs on a Cerb? It has all them nice range bonuses. I use HAMs on my CNC because it doesn't have range bonuses. Plus its so secsi! ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
KillmAll187	Posted - 2007.02.16 23:58:00 - [59] Originally by: Dragy Orange, wanna bet that noone of your beloved ships will win vs an Eos ? Unless you start point blank, that Curse will WTFPWN your Eos while you look at an empty capacitor. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt


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