Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:03:27 -
[1] - Quote
It seems wherever I go I get hate mail. People seem to think that miners and industrialists are lazy, and pathetic? Im sorry but without us EVE would not exist. We turn what eve gives us into the end products that other players need. We CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY?
You know who does not contribute to the economy? Station traders. Even as more miners appear, the prices products continue to rise, partially because the pathetic station traders sit there and jack prices up. To make a buck they take something that was 10,000 ISK and make it 11,000, than 13,000 than 25,000 than 75,000 than 100,000 etc etc, soon prices are crazy because station traders are just trying to make a quick buck.
You know who else does nothing to contribute to the economy? Gankers, and PVP players. The majority of them just plex their accounts to play. Plexing is the WORST thing to happen to the EVE economy. Instead of people having to work to convert what EVE gives us into resources, and eventually ISK, PVP players just show up with 1.2bil ISK that no one had to work for, which drives prices up!
Its just nuts. The amount of low-life scum that just leech off of the economy is crazy, and these scumbags still have the audacity to blame miners for rising prices, or hate on us? |

Paranoid Loyd
7670
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:07:25 -
[2] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:You know who else does nothing to contribute to the economy? Gankers I suppose removing half a trillion isk from the economy over the past two years did nothing to remove supply and drive demand up. 
Learn to economy.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3241
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:08:40 -
[3] - Quote
Gankers and PVP create the demand for your minerals.
Also PLEXinge is by no means harmful to the economy, as the isk is not generated from nothing.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:08:47 -
[4] - Quote
To ammend this, PVP players CAN play an important role. But they do not. They also take the easy route of preying on miners and cargo ships. If they actually engaged in PVP, started wars and played the game like it is supposed to be played, than EVE would be much better off. But EVE has just come to nothing but PVP players leeching off the workers of EVE, nothing more, nothing less. |

Jenshae Chiroptera
2439
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:08:54 -
[5] - Quote
Pokes the offering It stinks of troll bait.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|

Kaska Iskalar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:11:38 -
[6] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:You know who else does nothing to contribute to the economy? Gankers, and PVP players. As in the people who create demand for your products. You realize stuff in Eve never wears out, right? If not for stuff exploding nobody would ever need to buy anything. It's the circle of life and it moves us all. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
41482
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:11:38 -
[7] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:It seems wherever I go I get hate mail. People seem to think that miners and industrialists are lazy, and pathetic? Im sorry but without us EVE would not exist. We turn what eve gives us into the end products that other players need. We CONTRIBUTE TO THE ECONOMY?
You know who does not contribute to the economy? Station traders. Even as more miners appear, the prices products continue to rise, partially because the pathetic station traders sit there and jack prices up. To make a buck they take something that was 10,000 ISK and make it 11,000, than 13,000 than 25,000 than 75,000 than 100,000 etc etc, soon prices are crazy because station traders are just trying to make a quick buck.
You know who else does nothing to contribute to the economy? Gankers, and PVP players. The majority of them just plex their accounts to play. Plexing is the WORST thing to happen to the EVE economy. Instead of people having to work to convert what EVE gives us into resources, and eventually ISK, PVP players just show up with 1.2bil ISK that no one had to work for, which drives prices up!
Its just nuts. The amount of low-life scum that just leech off of the economy is crazy, and these scumbags still have the audacity to blame miners for rising prices, or hate on us? The only hate o see here is yours. That would be a miners perspective then?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Paranoid Loyd
7670
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:12:38 -
[8] - Quote
Whadaya know, I go to the kill boards and see a silly loss driving this post.  
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|

Xavindo Sirober
The Merchant Marine's Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:12:59 -
[9] - Quote
Outside the fact that this trollpost is ranting let me remind you though,
Even in our Corp we have people that have jobs and play the game, and yet plex their account, or we even gave them a plex because they just couldn't afford the game. not everyone has good salary.
And also, everyone in this game has atleast mined once, because we all know how it feels like, some love it, most hate it.
And we all know that we need them.
If you are so pissed off about the station traders, become one and undercut them every damn second they post something if you want to actually do something about it. become the messiah of plex.
People play this game for fun, some people like to gank, most like to pvp, how are you gonna make ur money mining if nobody is gonna pvp anymore? since there is no new ships required to build.
Blaming everyone isn't gonna help anyone either. |

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:13:48 -
[10] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:You know who else does nothing to contribute to the economy? Gankers I suppose removing half a trillion isk from the economy over the past two years did nothing to remove supply and drive demand up.  Learn to economy.
The gankers do NOT HELP the economy when they just turn around and Kill miners! It does no good if they just turn around and ruin everything that went towards building their ships. If they ganked actauly PVP ships, or did something else, than that 500b would mean something
|
|

Paranoid Loyd
7670
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:15:43 -
[11] - Quote
So are you just trolling or are you really that dumb?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|

Xavindo Sirober
The Merchant Marine's Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:16:05 -
[12] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:You know who else does nothing to contribute to the economy? Gankers I suppose removing half a trillion isk from the economy over the past two years did nothing to remove supply and drive demand up.  Learn to economy. The gankers do NOT HELP the economy when they just turn around and Kill miners! It does no good if they just turn around and ruin everything that went towards building their ships. If they ganked actauly PVP ships, or did something else, than that 500b would mean something
Mining barges/catalysts are build from thin air? They do help the economy, while having fun blowing stuff up. its you who is not having fun. less netflix, more awareness prevents almost any loss for a ship while mining |

Chris Kovach
Aphro Spaceships
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:17:29 -
[13] - Quote
Is this post for real? I have hard time deciding if the poster is a genuine lego bricks nerd or neckbeard... |

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
696
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:18:52 -
[14] - Quote
Well, aren't you a bag of sunshine? Look, just because you don't agree with their playstyle doesn't mean they are "low-life scum". It certainly doesn't mean they don't contribute to Eve or its economy any more than you do for that matter. To be fair, they have no more or less freedom to do as they will than you do.
If you do truly feel as though you are being harassed in anyway that is contrary to legitimate gameplay, then the proper outlet would be a petition. I will say that this game does ask quite a bit from players in terms of who fits and who doesn't. You may not like hearing it, but you are going to have to learn to accept that not everyone here plays the same way, as the rules to this game allow for players to explore both noble and sometimes less than noble methods to get what they want out of it, even a times at the cost of another players belongings. That's called competition, and this game is a competitive game at its very core. That's not easy for some to swallow, but it is what it is.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
|

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9635
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:19:15 -
[15] - Quote
Every profession has a place in this game. Without that synergy and rivalry this game would have died long ago.
That's all I have to say on the topic.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
41484
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:19:15 -
[16] - Quote
Chris Kovach wrote: I have hard time deciding if the poster is a genuine lego bricks nerd or neckbeard... https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbmk3pSKyKFAY90V21F9tlTIHENy-NTJZMl_a5UvjQl_Yp2pwfmHzG0MlaEg
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:24:20 -
[17] - Quote
The stupidity of the PVP and Gankers just goes to show how doomed the eve economy may be.
If PVP went on as it was supposed to (That being that factions and alliances are trying to kill each other, and eliminate the opposing infrastructure while protecting their own), the economy would be much better off. Instead this is how PVP goes
Player PLEXES, buys PVP ship, kills miners.
Thats just not productive. Its harder for us to sell things and make profits if the very items we are producing are just being used to destroy us. It creates a double negative, which is not how EVE should work
"Every profession has a place in this game. Without that synergy and rivalry this game would have died long ago.
That's all I have to say on the topic."
I agree, I think that ALL playstyles are valuable, if played properly. Gankers, PVP players, and everyone else could be playing Vital roles in the economy, and having WAY WAY WAY more fun! Instead you just sit around and kill us. Would it not be more fun to go charging into battle, fleet vs fleet, knowing that your corps/alliances indy players are hard at work making everything you need, compared to just sitting around all day killing anything that moves?
Thats all I am going to say.
|

Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
169
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:24:51 -
[18] - Quote
[quote=Azure Feixing) If they actually engaged in PVP, started wars and played the game like it is supposed to be played,[/quote] Dude, you Indy players and pvp'ers alike need to get this through your thick skulls. This game is a sandbox. Once they have subscribed people can play however the **** they choose. Learn to eve.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
|

Paranoid Loyd
7671
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:25:16 -
[19] - Quote
Ok so your trolling, IBTL
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:29:41 -
[20] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Ok so you're trolling, IBTL
No. I mean what I say. Eve is not as good as it used to be. It seems like players have abandoned EVEs former values and adopted easier ways.
|
|

Paranoid Loyd
7672
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:30:57 -
[21] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Ok so you're trolling, IBTL No. I mean what I say. Eve is not as good as it used to be. It seems like players have abandoned EVEs former values and adopted easier ways. Look man, you lost a shitfit hauler in low sec. 99.9% of the players in Eve would have killed your dumbass. It has nothing to do with the fact you are a miner, in fact there is no way in hell the guy that killed you knew were a miner. So to say there is hate for miners based off your loss is just childish. You were using poor tactics that is why you were killed, no other reason.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
41485
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:31:17 -
[22] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:The stupidity of the PVP Is killing shuttles ok within your rules for acceptable pvp?
Just asking, looking at your killboard and all.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:34:43 -
[23] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:The stupidity of the PVP Is killing shuttles ok within your rules for pvp? Just saying. Looking at your killboard and all.
The shuttles we killed we players in our WH. They were not active, and had logged off in space inside of a recently aquired POS. As we destroyed the ships left inside the shield, we ran into a few of these shuttle that we had no idea were alive.
And did I not say that PVP is okay? As long as PVP players are going against one another. Like wars, invasions, etc. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
41485
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:38:18 -
[24] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:The stupidity of the PVP Is killing shuttles ok within your rules for pvp? Just saying. Looking at your killboard and all. The shuttles we killed we players in our WH. They were not active, and had logged off in space inside of a recently aquired POS. As we destroyed the ships left inside the shield, we ran into a few of these shuttle that we had no idea were alive. And did I not say that PVP is okay? As long as PVP players are going against one another. Like wars, invasions, etc. So killing logged off shuttles is ok, because clearly the players are going against you while logged off.
Killing you is not ok.
Got it.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:40:09 -
[25] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:The stupidity of the PVP Is killing shuttles ok within your rules for pvp? Just saying. Looking at your killboard and all. The shuttles we killed we players in our WH. They were not active, and had logged off in space inside of a recently aquired POS. As we destroyed the ships left inside the shield, we ran into a few of these shuttle that we had no idea were alive. And did I not say that PVP is okay? As long as PVP players are going against one another. Like wars, invasions, etc. So killing logged off shuttles is ok, because clearly the players are going against you while logged off. Got it. Killing you is not ok. Got it.
Can you read? I said we had NO idea the shuttle has pilots in them, and since we PURCHASED the WH they were given plenty of time to leave. Not to mention to completely different circumstances. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
41485
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:42:45 -
[26] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:The stupidity of the PVP Is killing shuttles ok within your rules for pvp? Just saying. Looking at your killboard and all. The shuttles we killed we players in our WH. They were not active, and had logged off in space inside of a recently aquired POS. As we destroyed the ships left inside the shield, we ran into a few of these shuttle that we had no idea were alive. And did I not say that PVP is okay? As long as PVP players are going against one another. Like wars, invasions, etc. So killing logged off shuttles is ok, because clearly the players are going against you while logged off. Got it. Killing you is not ok. Got it. Can you read? I said we had NO idea the shuttle has pilots in them, and since we PURCHASED the WH they were given plenty of time to leave. Not to mention to completely different circumstances.
Yeah I can read.
Killing someone is ok if you don't know you are killing someone.
Ok. Got it this time.
Any more rules I should abide by to make sure I only do acceptable pvp?
Maybe you can detail them all?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:47:36 -
[27] - Quote
"Yeah I can read.
Killing someone's ship is ok if you don't know you are killing someone's ship.
Ok. Got it this time.
How long should I give someone to leave before its ok to shoot their ship?
This is so confusing.
Any more rules I should abide by to make sure I only do acceptable pvp?
Maybe you can detail them all?[/quote]
Pretty sure I covered this topic. Perhaps reading and ANALYZING the whole thread will help. |

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
41486
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:52:47 -
[28] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:Pretty sure I covered this topic. Perhaps reading and ANALYZING the whole thread will help. Lol. Yeah ok.
So the rules so far:
1. Don't shoot industrialists 2. Dont shoot miners 3. Don't shoot other ships unless it's mutual
Disclaimer: It's ok to shoot someone's ship as long as you don't know someone else owns it It's ok to shoot someone's ship if you give them enough time to leave
All other pvp makes you scum and in any case PvPers don't contribute anything to the economy anyway. They just PLEX their accounts.
Ok. I think that summarises the thread so far.
This should be in a Wili somewhere.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Raiz Nhell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
473
|
Posted - 2015.12.10 23:54:15 -
[29] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:
And did I not say that PVP is okay? As long as PVP players are going against one another. Like wars, invasions, etc.
Ahhh... so what your asking is to be completely safe... gotcha... go away.
How do you know you weren't killed in an invasion, how do you know the person who killed you doesn't want your WH.
As has been pointed out, all of Eve is competitive, all of Eve is PVP, there is no distinction between an industrialist and a PVP once you undock.
By undocking you are a PVP player, by undercutting on the market you are a PVP player, by mining you are denying others the minerals... it is all PVP.
Adapt and overcome. Eve success is based on climbing a pyramid that is made of other characters, tear down those above you and trample those below.
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.
|

Bobb Bobbington
The Cult of the Rare Pepes
175
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:02:55 -
[30] - Quote
heh, you're funny. I suppose you make ships with your minerals and think insurance is an isk sink too.
This is a signature.
It has a 25m signature.
No it's not a cosmic signature.
Probably.
Btw my corp's recruiting.
|
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:14:07 -
[31] - Quote
Raiz Nhell wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:
And did I not say that PVP is okay? As long as PVP players are going against one another. Like wars, invasions, etc.
Ahhh... so what your asking is to be completely safe... gotcha... go away. How do you know you weren't killed in an invasion, how do you know the person who killed you doesn't want your WH. As has been pointed out, all of Eve is competitive, all of Eve is PVP, there is no distinction between an industrialist and a PVP once you undock. By undocking you are a PVP player, by undercutting on the market you are a PVP player, by mining you are denying others the minerals... it is all PVP. Adapt and overcome. Eve success is based on climbing a pyramid that is made of other characters, tear down those above you and trample those below.
Players like you will be the destruction of eve. Ask any dev here if the game was build SOLELY for PVP, and that miners withhold minerals from others? That has to be the stupidest statement of the month.
Lets summarize the PVP we have covered since you seem unable to read and understand what I have said.
Random ganking in low and high of miners and industrialist = lazy scumbag
Ganking miners and industrialists in low and high sec as part of a war, or to strategically hurt THE ENEMY = GREAT! So long as you are at war and fighting the corp PVP as well
Roaming around killing miners and haulers because you are too lazy to go get real combat, = detriment to the economy
Breaching an alliances territory during wartime and attacking their "protected" miners = You are actually being productive
I know for a fact that I was killed by lazy scumbags, because their corp was not at war, they had no fight with me, or my corp.
I still cannot get over this - > by mining you are denying others the minerals... it is all PVP.
How about, by killing miners and haulers YOU are denying others the minerals. What do you think you in your battleship are gonna harvest the rocks, gas, ice, and moons? Not a chance. Without us there would be nothing. WE, the indy, are the only reason you have anything to gank us with, and the only reason you can PVP.
BTW did I mention how fun it would be to go head to head in massive fleets against rival alliances, battling for control of strategic systems, and new places for the hopefully indy part of your corp. This is how eve is supposed to work. This way, everything is a competition. On one side, the war front. On the other, covert ships cutting supply lines in and out of enemy space, on another is the market war. So yeah, EVE is competitive, but if it was meant just for PVP you would think that CCP would of had no reason to add mining barges, or freighters, or really anything else. EVE was created to be a complicated and strategic game. Instead a bunch of barbaric idiots have turned the game into nothing but kills, how many, and how much damage did I just cause to the economy for no reason?
If you think EVE is about PVP you are just plain wrong, and have obviously failed to see all sides of EVE. At this point I am being more understanding than anyone in this thread. I have said PVP can be good, everything can contribute, you dont have to mine, you dont have to ship things. But as a player in the sandbox of eve it is YOUR responsibility to preserve EVE, because there is a breaking point, and I fear we are approaching faster than ever.
|

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1245
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:19:45 -
[32] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:In response to all of the above posts:
Gankers and PVP do generate need for product. But at the same time if they are all coming after us the economy cannot grow, and will ultimately wither and die.
If players went to war, and played the game like it was supposed to be, none of this would be happening.
Some players do go to war. Others blow up players like you. Player freedom to choose is integral to Eve.
Frankly, you're looking at it all wrong. Gankers aren't your enemy. Your enemy is other miners. If you can learn to avoid getting ganked, you have a competitive advantage over miners who can't do that.
Quote:Random ganking in low and high of miners and industrialist = lazy scumbag
Lazy miners and industrialists who get ganked because they didn't take steps to protect themselves and then cry about it on the forums = lazy scumbags. And I say this as an industrialist.
Eve is not a PvP-optional game. You click undock, you consent to PvP. So, play the game accordingly.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|

Chris Kovach
Aphro Spaceships
0
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:32:34 -
[33] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Eve is not a PvP-optional game. You click undock, you consent to PvP. So, play the game accordingly.
MIC DROP.
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
41488
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:34:49 -
[34] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:How about, by killing miners and haulers YOU are denying others the minerals. What do you think you in your battleship are gonna harvest the rocks, gas, ice, and moons? Not a chance. Without us there would be nothing. WE, the indy, are the only reason you have anything to gank us with, and the only reason you can PVP. Here's an alternative picture for you:
http://i.imgur.com/haNCwOB.png
The biggest group of pvpers in the game are classified by CCP as the 'professional' players and they do just as much mining and industrial activity as they do pvp.
If the self entitled "we miners are the driving force of the economy" people disappeared, then the same players that shoot you will also create more than they already do.
In realtity, the idea that there are industrialists and pvpers as two distinct groups is ridiculous. Lots of people in the game do lots of different things, both production and destruction focused.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
438
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:39:21 -
[35] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:Don't hate me, hate those other guys.
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:41:13 -
[36] - Quote
Quote:Some players do go to war. Others blow up players like you. Player freedom to choose is integral to Eve.
Frankly, you're looking at it all wrong. Gankers aren't your enemy. Your enemy is other miners. If you can learn to avoid getting ganked, you have a competitive advantage over miners who can't do that.
I am looking at it like I should be. Miners to sell their product to the market. But if that market was controlled soley by their alliance/corp there would be no competition. My corps citizens are buying my ORE, and my alliance is preventing other miners from selling their product here. This is how the corp/alliance/player relationship is supposed to work.
Gankers are the enemy, and they are your enemy. I already described the economical ramifications of gankers. They are leaches. You would have a greater advantage over other players if your corp had a larger area under its control, and therefore more business for you. How do corps gain control of other systems/regions? War. How do ships get produced for the war? Us. The failure on your part to see how the EVE economy does work, can work, and is designed to work it horrifying. Yes, we take stuff to high-sec to sell. If your alliance is strategically preventing the warring alliances miners from selling their products in high-sec than good for you. If the other alliances sov works correctly, they still have COMPLETE monopoly over the market in their regions. Not to mention funding the war effort. So you see the market is multifaced, and the gankers are nothing more than lazy, pathetic, detrimental players who are UNWILLING to play the game. By doing this, they drive the game towards its destruction, while others attempt to do their part in preserving EVE.
Quote:Eve is not a PvP-optional game. You click undock, you consent to PvP. So, play the game accordingly.
This is not true. When you undock in your alliance protected indy zone, you are protected, you are safe. And unless your alliance is at war, or you have done something to agress someone else, than there is truly no reason to kill you, except if you are a lazy pathetic ganker who has failed at playing the game, and resorted to preying on those who have done nothing.
I get it though, free choice and all that. I am saying that if we do not recognize the ramifications of the actions and playstyles we are adopting, EVE may not survive another 5 years. We have got to figure out how to play the game where it is fun, competitive, and successful. Right now, things are competitive. But I dont consider it very fun, and it seems EVE player base is diminishing. If its not fun to play, and almost impossible to become successful, than people will stop playing.
Quote:The biggest group of pvpers in the game are classified by CCP as the 'professional' players and they do just as much mining and industrial activity as they do pvp.
If the self entitled "we miners are the driving force of the economy" people disappeared, then the same players that shoot you will also create more than they already do.
In realtity, the idea that there are industrialists and pvpers as two distinct groups is ridiculous. Lots of people in the game do lots of different things, both production and destruction focused.
Yes, players do many different things. But I find this information very hard to believe, because I know that at least some smart people are left in the game. If players were truly double-faced, and truly understood the many sides and markets of EVE, we would not be having this conversation. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Snuffed Out
4505
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:41:47 -
[37] - Quote
i don't understand
what is one supposed to do when one's ore has been erronously placed in another's barge, whose owner refuses to relinquish the misplaced material to its rightful owner, except by shooting at it |

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1246
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:42:17 -
[38] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:How about, by killing miners and haulers YOU are denying others the minerals.
That's exactly why competent miners like gankers. By keeping the lazy slob caste of miners from bringing their minerals to market, the ganker ensures that the mining elite get top dollar for their minerals when they bring their minerals safely to market because they know what they are doing and took pains to avoid getting ganked. ;)
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|

Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
395
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:46:01 -
[39] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Whadaya know, I go to the kill boards and see a silly loss driving this post.  
That's gotta be worth at least 8 points on the GD Bingo Card?
Azure Feixing wrote:Pretty sure I covered this topic. Perhaps reading and ANALYZING the whole thread will help.
i've read it. my analysis is as follows:
You flew a hilariously badly fit hauler into Lowsec and got popped by an Orthrus. This gives rise to some pretty basic questions, like, did you or anyone in your corp scout the gate? You supposedly have 26 corpmates you can call upon for these sorts of things.
As to said spectacularly failfit Tayra. You chose to use precisely zero tank and no afterburner, despite a plethora of open slots simply yearning to be filled with these generally useful, ship saving devices.
So, you've made three stupendously bad decisions in quick succession and been given an ISK125m lesson in How To EVE as a result.
I suggest you learn from those mistakes, else you'll them again. Coming onto forums and bleating about nasty, nasty people simply provides delicious, live affirming tears to your killer and all those of us who would have gladly taken that shot at you in the same situation.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:47:46 -
[40] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:Don't hate me, hate those other guys.
I did not say this. Why you try to do this is just ridiculous. Anyone can forge a qoute like this below
Neuntausend wrote:I enjoy twisting information and not reading the whole thread.
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:How about, by killing miners and haulers YOU are denying others the minerals. That's exactly why competent miners like gankers. By keeping the lazy slob caste of miners from bringing their minerals to market, the ganker ensures that the mining elite get top dollar for their minerals when they bring their minerals safely to market because they know what they are doing and took pains to avoid getting ganked. ;)
Because you must not have read the rest of the thread. I specifically said that a GOOD WAY to eliminate other miners is through ganking, only when you are at war. Normal gankers do not pick and choose who they shoot. Alliances and corps will. There is an effective way to monopolize the larger markets. Gankers do more harm than good. |
|

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1250
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:51:23 -
[41] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:
Because you must not have read the rest of the thread. I specifically said that a GOOD WAY to eliminate other miners is through ganking, only when you are at war. Normal gankers do not pick and choose who they shoot. Alliances and corps will. There is an effective way to monopolize the larger markets. Gankers do more harm than good.
I assume you have prepared a detailed analysis to support this completely-in-opposition-to-basic-economic-theory assertion of yours that you're going to crack out and wow us with at any moment, right?
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
|

Azure Feixing
Arcane Futuristics Elite Demons Playground
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:55:15 -
[42] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Whadaya know, I go to the kill boards and see a silly loss driving this post.   That's gotta be worth at least 8 points on the GD Bingo Card? Azure Feixing wrote:Pretty sure I covered this topic. Perhaps reading and ANALYZING the whole thread will help. i've read it. my analysis is as follows: You flew a hilariously badly fit hauler into Lowsec and got popped by an Orthrus. This gives rise to some pretty basic questions, like, did you or anyone in your corp scout the gate? You supposedly have 26 corpmates you can call upon for these sorts of things. As to said spectacularly failfit Tayra. You chose to use precisely zero tank and no afterburner, despite a plethora of open slots simply yearning to be filled with these generally useful, ship saving devices. So, you've made three stupendously bad decisions in quick succession and been given an ISK125m lesson in How To EVE as a result. I suggest you learn from those mistakes, else you'll them again. Coming onto forums and bleating about nasty, nasty people simply provides delicious, live affirming tears to your killer and all those of us who would have gladly taken that shot at you in the same situation.
In fact my loss is not driving this thread. This remains and open debate regarding the future of eve and proper use of PVP, along with corp/alliance structure. This was not a lesson. I was in a hurry to get this stuff into the WH, and did not have time to get a proper fit. This hardly scratches my wallet, thusly your argument is invalid. I have suffered MANY losses on all of my toons. Lost blockade runners to lucky ganks, and freighters to the pathetically weak. What I have learned from my combined 5 years playing experience is that no one stops to consider the ramifications of their actions in EVE, or how they can contribute to making the game more fun, and active, and competitive. I am not saying that these things don't happen, or shouldn't. I am saying they should happen for a reason. If you take anything from what I have said take that. If people had reasons to do what they do, and thought of the game on a larger scale, EVE would be the BEST game. But the greedy nature of the PVP player, and all human beings prevents it.
|

Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
439
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:55:35 -
[43] - Quote
Mining and ganking together form a self-stabilizing system: If the hardships the poor little miners have to face start outweighing the gains, miners will stop mining, supply will diminish and prices will rise, thereby making all the trouble worthwhile for the remaining ones. At the same time, ganking will get more expensive for the big, evil pvpers, resulting in fewer, more select ganks, giving the miners more space.
At the current state, Miners must be in a good position, otherwise there wouldn't be just as many. There's so much ore being mined, that minerals and in turn ships are cheap as dirt, compared to the income gained from other PvE activities. |

Elite Harvester
11
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:57:06 -
[44] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:People seem to think that miners and industrialists are lazy, and pathetic? Im sorry but without us EVE would not exist. Huh, that's funny. And here I thought CCP were the ones who created EVE Online.
Azure Feixing wrote:You know who does not contribute to the economy? Station traders. If the price is too high then nobody will buy. The issue corrects itself.
Azure Feixing wrote:You know who else does nothing to contribute to the economy? Gankers, and PVP players. Because a universe where spaceships and goods never need replaced is bad business for those who manufacture them, right?
Azure Feixing wrote:Its just nuts. Yes, this thread is nuts.
Have a nice day! 
Visit www.MinerBumping.com to find out how you can help save Highsec.
Proud owner of 100,000 New Order Shares.
|

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
41495
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:57:11 -
[45] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:I specifically said that a GOOD WAY to eliminate other miners is through ganking, only when you are at war What's the acceptable way to kill a miner or industrialist that is in an NPC Corp then?
Wouldn't all miners and industrialists just stay in NPC Corps and be essentially immune from conflict if war is the only way?
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|

Paranoid Loyd
7678
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 00:59:52 -
[46] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:In fact my loss is not driving this thread. Just a coincidence
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|

Mortlake
Disciples of Bob
895
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 01:00:53 -
[47] - Quote
The hyena does not hate the limping wildebeest calf or the naive warthog piglet, it simply sees food.
Be the porcupine, not the pork. |

Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
439
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 01:03:50 -
[48] - Quote
Azure Feixing wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Azure Feixing wrote:Don't hate me, hate those other guys. I did not say this. Why you try to do this is just ridiculous. Anyone can forge a qoute like this below Neuntausend wrote:I enjoy twisting information and not reading the whole thread.
Really? I did not know that. And here I thought I was being smart. :( |

Paranoid Loyd
7678
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 01:05:34 -
[49] - Quote
This is directly from the new pilot FAQ, do you see any mention about honorable combat?
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|
|

ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
76

|
Posted - 2015.12.11 01:09:24 -
[50] - Quote
Quote:3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
Locked. Thrown away the key. EVE Is not a nice game.
ISD Max Trix
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
|
|

ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
76
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 01:16:17 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.
Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent.
While every other MMO starts off with an intro that tells you you're going to be the savior of the realm, holds your hand, protects you, nurtures your development and ultimately guides you to your destiny as a hero along with several other million players who've had the exact same experience, EVE assaults you from the second you begin to play after you create a character, spitting you out into a universe that under the surface, is so complex that it's enough to make your head explode.
The entire design is based around being harsh, vicious, relentless, hostile and cold. It's about action and reaction, and the story that unfolds as you experience these two things.
True, we're working hard to lower the bar of entry so that more players can enjoy EVE and can get into the game. Our NPE (New Player Experience) is challenging, and we're trying to improve it to better prepare rookies for what lies out there, but when you start to play eve, you'll always start out as the little fish in the big pond.
The only way to grow is to voraciously consume what's around you, and its your choice whether that happens to be New Eden's abundant natural resources, or the other people who're also fighting their way to the top.
EVE is a playing experience like no other, where every action or reaction resonates through a single universe and is felt by players from all corners of the word. There are no shards here, no mirror universes, no instances and very few rules. If you stumble across something valuable, then chances are someone else already knows where you are, or is working their way toward you and you better be prepared to fight for what you've discovered.
EVE will test you from the outset, from the very second you undock and glimpse the stars, and will take pleasure from sorting those who can survive from those who'd rather curl up and perish.
EVE will let you fight until you collapse, then let you struggle to your feet, exhausted from the effort. Then when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel it'll kick you flat on your ass in the mud again and ask you why you deserve to be standing. It'll test you against every other individual playing at some point or another, and it'll ask for answers.
Give it an answer and maybe it'll let you up again, long enough to gather your thoughts. After a few more steps you're on the ground again and it's asking more questions.
EVE is designed to be harsh, it's designed to be challenging, and it's designed to be so deep and complex that it should fascinate and terrify you at the same time.
Corporation, Alliances and coalitions of tens of thousands have risen and fallen on these basic principles, and every one of those thousands of people has their own unique story to tell about how it affected them and what they experienced.
That's the beauty of EVE. Action and reaction. Emergence.
Welcome to the most frightening virtual playground you'll ever experience.
ISD Max Trix
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |