EVE Search - Bloggers #46, TomB on Inventions

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE Information Portal

Bloggers #46, TomB on Inventions

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)

kieron	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:06:00 - [1] A number of the EVE science and manufacturing community have had some concerns about Inventions and the lack of resources available to participate in this new content. Those concerns have not gone unheeded. TomB's new blog goes into some of the thoughts behind the release of the Inventions system, what we thought went wrong with the release, what is going to be done to fix the system and a rough date for when. So, there you have it, Inventions: status and update. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

Xordus Beasts of Burden	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:21:00 - [2] Finally, Thank God..
Laendra	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:41:00 - [3] GRRR** I HATE THIS STUPID FORUM BUG THAT CAUSES YOU TO LOSE YOUR POST. FIX IT, PLEASE. I don't know why anyone would spend RP to purchase Datacores, when it is already hard enough to get a T2 BPO from the lottery as it is. It just doesn't make sense to reduce your already miniscule chances. Adding them as agent mission rewards or mission drops isn't feasible either. You already had that problem before with R.Db and R.A.M., and your solution there is the same thing you should do here...put the production into the hands of the players, as it should be. The whole T2 process is too much like watching some NPC come in to save the day when you are the main character in the story, anyway. You could kill two birds with one stone by having the Datacores require Raw Moon materials to build, which would also boost that industry some, and keep the strain off of the standard minerals. You could up the amounts of materials required to get the prices you want for invention, and can more easily get things the way you want them, much like you mentioned you have for standard production. I mean, what can you be worried about by having player controlled invention? T2 Invention BPCs already have significant penalties built into the, so it isn't like anyone can compete in the market. They are really only useful in remote space (0.0) anyway, as the T2 BPO owners have significant competitive advantage over T2 BPCs. -------------------
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:54:00 - [4] I believe the following changes should be introduced: Cut datacore RP prices to one tenth. Increase interface drops to by a factor of 5-10. Increase the part drops to build interfaces by a factor of 3-6. What this in my mind should do is that while all the final building blocks could be easily obtained it would be relatively hard or expensive to actually start the inventing process. Yes, it would oversaturate the datacore market heavily but on the other hand oversaturation also means good availability of materials. Without actual numbers this opinion of course does not hold any ground so I'm just babbling.
Centurin Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:06:00 - [5] Invention was never meant to make any impact on the t2 market. It was created to stop the whining about the lottery. IMO, its too time consuming so many people won't do it. While I'll be the first to admit that the t2 market is broken, I highly doubt invention will make any impact. ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
Ather Ialeas Amarr Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:09:00 - [6] Originally by: Centurin Invention was never meant to make any impact on the t2 market. It was created to stop the whining about the lottery. IMO, its too time consuming so many people won't do it. While I'll be the first to admit that the t2 market is broken, I highly doubt invention will make any impact. Hint #1: Cap Recharger II Hint #2: Warp Disruptor II
Garet Jackson Ars Caelestis	Posted - 2007.01.15 19:52:00 - [7] Edited by: Garet Jackson on 15/01/2007 19:49:07 Edited by: Garet Jackson on 15/01/2007 19:48:32 Originally by: TomB Any comments on the data cores (specifically concerning agents) will be my privilege to read in the thread of comments The number of Mechanical Engineering Agents, especially high level ones is out of proportion to the need for Mechanical Engineering Datacores. Based on the TL2MaterialsForTypeWithActivity.SQL file, Mechanical Engineering Datacores are used in the invention of 160 modules, ships and rigs, more than double the next highest type, and the number of Mechanical Engineering Datacores needed to invent one of everything that can be invented is more than four times the next highest type (Largely because all ships need multiple Mechanical Engineering Datacores). The last time I checked, I think I found exactly seven L4 agents with Mechanical Engineering as an option, and four of those seven worked for the Minmatar Faction. Given the extensive use of Mechanical Engineering Datacores, I think this situation is significantly unbalanced.
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2007.01.16 01:18:00 - [8] "At the end of the year there were around 200 more to be built, which is far from being enough." Uh oh... I'm hoping this is an ambiguity of language. Was this meant to imply that there's a fixed number of interfaces "to be built", of which 200 have not yet been built, and that after that, BP drops will cease? If so, that's horrifying. I take hope from the "which is far from being enough", and I'm hoping that something like "there were around 200 which had been built, which is far from being enough" was meant. Can we possibly get a little clarification, and put to rest the nightmare vision of a small fixed number of interfaces in the game? Thanks.
DHU InMe Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.16 01:52:00 - [9] Allow to remote buy datacore from anywere ! I got 6 agent scatter in the game !! From my calcul, i would need around 30-60 day to empty my agent point and i have to make around 90 jump/days. __ UI Overhaul Eve Links http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread
VortiK Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 03:23:00 - [10] Invention isn't easy yes. I'm not sure what CCP was/is expecting from invention about T2 market but here's my point of view. As said by TomB, interface isnt consumed by an invention job nor stuck in it for its duration. Making it a life long item, enabling you to virtually invent anything you want and at any rate. In fact, the only thing limiting you is the succes chance (roughly 50% with good named items, bpcs, tools) and the Datacores needed for the job. Maybe tweaking the datacore (which is a ressource) drop instead of the interface (which is an undestructible tool) would be better ? Otherwise interfaces could just become another no value item that, in the long run, everybody will have. Maybe keep the interface in the lab during the job if it's going to be easier to drop and build ? As it is you could just get 50 of your corp mates and launch as much job as you can with the necessary components. Getting an interface BPC requires effort, about 10 hacking site to get the chance of looting it. I got like 3 in a month of exploration. Looks quite ok for something you'll never lose. Exploration gameplay isn't the most exciting thing with its 1 click/5minutes stuck in a cov-ops but it's a bit better with some skills. The real pain comes when you want to build it. The materials drops in the same hack sites and other locations, but at a low rate, this requires some grind and lot of time. Could help to get a bit more from thoses hack site but then again, that's a little effort for such a valuable item. Then again, but the time you get the bpc you'll have some of the materials, except for that nightmare ship interface. Science before invention was about launching a BP in a lab and going to do something else. Now there is much more to do, it is actually a full time activity. Hell, even the BPCs market is going to get alive. None the less it requires efforts, but it is really rewarding and by looking at cap rechargers II prices it seems to be doing its purpose. Now maybe CCP wants to speed the process up, but the market prices are going to get lowered a lot. Invention gets you bad ME's so BPO are still valuable, everyone's happy but what will happen when T2 will get to rock bottom and everyboddy in vagabond ? Is T3 coming to replace the elite priced stuff ? Harder invention process, rare tool/interface drop or just less luck of job success ? All in all, lot of variables to play with, just make sure you know what you hit and the consequences. Anyway, more accessible good stuff, more people using it, more killing, more fun I guess. What is a life, devoid of strife ?

Brad Stone Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.16 09:03:00 - [11] "They are really only useful in remote space (0.0) anyway, as the T2 BPO owners have significant competitive advantage over T2 BPCs." Dude, have you SEEN the price of cap recharger IIs lately? They cost pennies to build even with the high waste from a invented 40 run bpc. Inevented bpcs are driving down the cost of several t2 mods already. The gravytrain for some t2 bpo owners is ending... some corps are doing quite well from invention, even in empire.
Lynn de'Marco Harbour Rats Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.16 09:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Garet Jackson The number of Mechanical Engineering Agents, especially high level ones is out of proportion to the need for Mechanical Engineering Datacores. Was going to write a long post about this but i think u did it already. The first i noticed when looking at invention was the big use of Mechanical Engineering Datacores. This is what i see is the biggest problem. Droprate of interfaces second.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.16 09:15:00 - [13] Edited by: Shadowsword on 16/01/2007 09:11:47 About Hydromagnetic Physics: If you look at the level 4 agents in that field, you'll see that only one of them is what you could call a "good" agent. That means the numbe of people pursuing research in that field is probably very limited... The Khanid faction could really use some more research agents, the highest they have right now is a lv2, of bad quality. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Sunaria	Posted - 2007.01.16 09:59:00 - [14] well first of all I'm glad to hear this , Invention should become used more. Please fiddle around with the BPC drops and items to build them. But don't touch the datacore drops in the exploration sites those are great as they are now and I would hate to see them decrease greets
Timotheus Siberius Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:22:00 - [15] The first days of Revelations are over, so there is no need to maintain the datacore buy limit per day any longer. A dedicated researcher (fixing a snag each day, having skilled the relevant skills to level V) probably should be able to acquire one datacore a day for each (level IV) agent by turning in his research points. This would suggest to decrease the rp cost to 2/5 of what it is now. Compare that to the amount of effort and coordination needed to aqcuire datacores by running explorations. * See you in space!
Nachtjaeger Minmatar Silent Services Research	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:29:00 - [16] Boosting the drop frequency of certain materials needed to build interfaces would help increase their use. For example an occult data interface requires 25 force cables. The only ones available on buy order atm are up for 150mil each. That puts the cost of building an interface at 3,75bn just for the force cables. When people are asking of upwards of 5bn for a 2 run bpc, coupled with the drastically low drop rate of the power cables, this puts the production of interfaces well outside the realms of the small corp and back into the arms of the mega corps who have the money to buy t2 bpos any way.
Amaron Ghant Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:02:00 - [17] Finding the things should be harder , but building them should be easier. I freely admit this is completely in my own self interest as i¦m busy scavaging for the parts to build my own esoteric tuner data interface.
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:46:00 - [18] Another thing which could do with ballancing is the ease of making Tech 2 rigs. Once invention is up and running we should see a fair few T2 rig BPCs hitting the server. At the moment they are appearing, slowly but surely, out of archeology complexes. the issue is the tech 2 Rig Components drop rate. It is utterly lousy. The number of components required to build a T2 rig is comparable to those required to build a T1 rig but the only two sources of components are from T2 wrecks and rare finds in arcsal sites of usually two components per site maximum. T2 wrecks are limited to battlecruiser size (max 12 components I believe) meaning that for some of the T2 rigs we will need to find ten T2 vbattlecruiser wrecks, 50 Arcsal sites or greater numbers of lesser T2 wrecks. Ignoring the price of components at the moment as this is a purely player-driven value, the rate of entry into the game of T2 rig components is ridiculously small. At a guess, if they were all collected by a single player there are currently only enough T2 rig components dropping on the server to allow for ten rigs to be manufactured in total per day. Given the large numbers of people collecting these things and the huge number of ships which want to be rigged this is unworkably small. SUMMATION - Please analyse the drop rate of T2 rig components and either boost them or find alternate ways of getting them into the game. IDEA - Take 1000 damaged rig components, some morphite and a seeded T2 rig components BPO and allow a T2 rig component to be manufactured via standard industry.
Sabahl Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:46:00 - [19] Another thing which could do with ballancing is the ease of making Tech 2 rigs. Once invention is up and running we should see a fair few T2 rig BPCs hitting the server. At the moment they are appearing, slowly but surely, out of archeology complexes. the issue is the tech 2 Rig Components drop rate. It is utterly lousy. The number of components required to build a T2 rig is comparable to those required to build a T1 rig but the only two sources of components are from T2 wrecks and rare finds in arcsal sites of usually two components per site maximum. T2 wrecks are limited to battlecruiser size (max 12 components I believe) meaning that for some of the T2 rigs we will need to find ten T2 vbattlecruiser wrecks, 50 Arcsal sites or greater numbers of lesser T2 wrecks. Ignoring the price of components at the moment as this is a purely player-driven value, the rate of entry into the game of T2 rig components is ridiculously small. At a guess, if they were all collected by a single player there are currently only enough T2 rig components dropping on the server to allow for ten rigs to be manufactured in total per day. Given the large numbers of people collecting these things and the huge number of ships which want to be rigged this is unworkably small. SUMMATION - Please analyse the drop rate of T2 rig components and either boost them or find alternate ways of getting them into the game. IDEA - Take 1000 damaged rig components, some morphite and a seeded T2 rig components BPO and allow a T2 rig component to be manufactured via standard industry.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:47:00 - [20] Originally by: Centurin Invention was never meant to make any impact on the t2 market. It was created to stop the whining about the lottery. IMO, its too time consuming so many people won't do it. While I'll be the first to admit that the t2 market is broken, I highly doubt invention will make any impact. Did you actually read the blog? TomB said clear out that what invention was supposed to make an impact on the t2 market. I'll quote it for you. Originally by: TomB Invention was supposed to be the revolutionary feature of Revelations and should have changed the entire science and industry genre as we know it, with the potential side effect that could change the biggest part of the player economy; Tech 2. Yes it did not turn out that way and this is why drop rates etc are being fixed. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations

Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Centurin Invention was never meant to make any impact on the t2 market. It was created to stop the whining about the lottery. IMO, its too time consuming so many people won't do it. While I'll be the first to admit that the t2 market is broken, I highly doubt invention will make any impact. Did you actually read the blog? TomB said clear out that what invention was supposed to make an impact on the t2 market. I'll quote it for you. Originally by: TomB Invention was supposed to be the revolutionary feature of Revelations and should have changed the entire science and industry genre as we know it, with the potential side effect that could change the biggest part of the player economy; Tech 2. Yes it did not turn out that way and this is why drop rates etc are being fixed. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Emily Spankratchet Minmatar Pragmatics	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Laendra I don't know why anyone would spend RP to purchase Datacores, when it is already hard enough to get a T2 BPO from the lottery as it is. It just doesn't make sense to reduce your already miniscule chances. This is very true. I was getting ready to play with invention in the runup to Revelations. Then patch day came and I saw the list of reseeded TII BPOs. When my agents have so many potentially cool BPOs, why would I want to buy datacores and worsen my odds in the lottery? Bad timing I guess. On the bright side, by the time the drop of interfaces has been sorted out the reseeded BPO queues will be emptier and I'll be more likely to play with invention.
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:12:00 - [23] Some comments: 1) Make sure that not just increasing the drop rate of components but also to look at the drop rate of some of the more rare components (like Power Couplings and Force Cables) compared to other components. 2) I do think it should be hard to do invention, but not like it is today. If it get to easy/cheap then T2 prices will become to low and not worth doing. 3) Are you going to do any changes to research fields for agents, for example to increase the number of mechanical eng agents? 4) Not sure if RP cost for data cores are to high or to low. Maybe should be a bit lower than it is now. 5) Make it possible to buy datacores remote. Also remove the daily limit of how many cores you can buy/day. Don't serve any purpose IMO and make it much harder when you want to change research field (especially if you can't buy the cores remote).
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:18:00 - [24] Edited by: Bermag on 16/01/2007 15:15:41 Originally by: Sabahl SUMMATION - Please analyse the drop rate of T2 rig components and either boost them or find alternate ways of getting them into the game. IDEA - Take 1000 damaged rig components, some morphite and a seeded T2 rig components BPO and allow a T2 rig component to be manufactured via standard industry. I agree. I have been playing with the same idea. This way you would only need to seed some new BPOs.
Quutar Caldari Auraxian Irregulars	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:46:00 - [25] What about the Ice Miner I and the Strip Miner I BPOs? we can't invent the tech 2 ice miner, or the tech 2 modulated strip miner with out those BPOs being seeded. Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services.
Galimiy Portret R.u.S.H. Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:34:00 - [26] Remove T2 BPOs from the game... This should boost invention somewhat. ...now in RED
Kabeil Blackdawn The Shadow Order Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Kabeil Blackdawn on 16/01/2007 18:30:03 Edited by: Kabeil Blackdawn on 16/01/2007 18:29:44 For those that dont what to get datacores from agent because it reduces there change at a t2 bpo. Well invention allows you to make a lot of isk without having the lottery feel. If you have a data interface and you can change agent to get the right datacore and make billions, why would you not do it for a slim chance at a bpo. Its a choise you have to make. I do see that the cost in rp for datacore should be decreased. What I like with the drop rate of the building components is that dedicated hackers in the cosmos complex can have a real profession being hackers. I see hackers as being the data interface producers for scientists. The price of those components are insane atm, because there is more demand then offer. With high price, more ppl should go hacking to get the components, that will in time drop the price.
Crystal Lyn	Posted - 2007.01.16 20:20:00 - [28] Edited by: Crystal Lyn on 16/01/2007 20:20:27 Invention fixes have high priority? Ok, so can you please make T2 barges inventable? They were supposed to be inventable, and at one point a dev even claimed it had been fixed so that they were, but the fact is they are still bugged. This is quite a bad bug, as it's allow hulk bpo owners to continue making 3-4 billion isk a week with no competition from inventors. Ever tried inventing a T1 barge bpc? It says you can't do that, as no higher meta level item exists. Saying invention is the fix for the T2 market but then allowing hulk bpo owners to continue making 3+ billion isk a week is damnright disgusting. This bug has existed now since revelations came out, and not a word from any dev on the matter. Please make T2 barges inventable.
Crystal Lyn	Posted - 2007.01.16 20:30:00 - [29] Increase the number of runs you can get from inventing ship bpc. Currently using the 4x run modifier decryptor, you get 40 run bpc's with modules, but only 4 runs max with ships. The number of runs needs to be increased for ship invention jobs.
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2007.01.16 21:29:00 - [30] hey hey Directly to TomB : Please note this is my personal erxperiance and opionion only and does no way reflect of what ccp is "trying" to do with TII etc etc. interface bpc's and exploration ive visited some exploration sites in empire and invested some considerable time and isk in the rare hope of a possible interface drop. not once have i found anything more than mining belts or tiny npc spawns and not once have i been "escalated" I am fully aware that the posibility of getting anything decent from empire will be rare but consider that alot of players live in empire and carebear you are instantly cutting off a large proportion of people searching for interfaces and as i see it low sec and 0.0 exploration is for the "spoilt children" of this incredible game. Interface BPC's them selves have horrendus build requirements. I have been to COSMOS and i know 100% that building even the easiest datafile BPC can be weeks worth of effort. Im sure your player character has at least attempted "hacking" and "archaeology" sites but im bettign that you never sat there and opened countless spawn containers in order to find your req's for building. I have a number of Datafile and prototype items built and can say that from experience its the most tedious thing CCP ever dreamed up and is so soul destroying that mining gives me wood. Getting 1 item per can i plain nutty (oxymoron ?) again i understand the need for things to be balanced and have a certain degree of challenge but if someone had listened to the playerbase about hacking drops then im sure that there would be a huge market in prototypes and datafiles etc. The recent changes to salvage blew the market wide open and availability is helping the rig market; although tweeks are needeed. the COSMOS have never had "adjustments" and have always been left by the wayside. Datacores and invention skills Datacores are plainly just too expensive to buy from your agent. again you have cut off alot of the playerbase and confined it to those who have high rp points and can actually afford to buy with rp spare. considering they are destructable its rp down a huge rp sink. Building/inventing from a bpc is just as painfull as everything else in the game and to invent something theres now a whole list of skills you need just to make an "attempt" coupled with the fact that you need race specific invention skills that are hard to get or expensive to buy its looking to some people to be more hassle than its worth. Please also consider that some of the inventions that a player want are from another race altogether. i think by now most people know im almost 100% matari only with my skills/ships and for me or even my industrial based alt will require CALDARI !!! encryption and excuse my gallente but how the **** am i going to go to caldari space just to get a skill ? its even a minmatar mod (shield based race ) this pushes me or my alt to get skills i neither want or skills for skill sake :( personally the skills should have been seeded. not forgetting i would actually need each science skill and its relative datacore too. Cost to invent Generally i play this game on the basis that everything is available for free somewhere but if you start to total up isk costs relating to invention your once again gimping alot of the playerbase and with PLAYER created prices for interface bpc's (lol at the idiots) its better to spend that isk on actually buying a TII BPO. Why (to those 2-6bil sdellers) would any sane person buy a bpc with reqs that are ebil to build pay those prices for something that you can buy directly for the same price. FFS id invest 1bil in TII resales. I was looking forward to invention and got myself prepared but i feel that its not worth the effort and again is something for the elite of the game :( SORRY for the long post but hopefully constructive. Drey



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.