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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Fidelas Constans
582
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Posted - 2016.01.04 10:39:17 -
[31] - Quote
Kelath Erebus wrote:I posted this in another browser related thread. But...
Since you're set on removing the browser app, perhaps replace it with a beacon app. What I mean is, a pilot clicks on the app and can enter a series of URLs perhaps with a status toggle (on/off). Every time a pilot switches systems the beacon app fires a JSON formatted POST to the URLs that are "on".
This would allow for pilots to send the data in the browser header to the websites in a nicely formatted manner, without having to continue to manage the in-game browser in all its modified glory.
This could be expanded down the road, so perhaps specific actions fire off the beacon. I could see this useful for mining, for instance next to the URL in the beacon app there is a "config/settings/options" button. Select that and a modal pops-up providing the pilot the ability to choose what data they want sent to the URL, include additional things that perhaps are already logged locally, like mining data, combat data. It would be infinitely useful to have such data automatically sent to web applications for consumption when they occur.
I would imagine the above would be a lot easier to manage then the full modified web browser, while still providing the pilots of EVE the ability to send live data to web applications and potentially data that isn't already available over time. The possibilities are endless and they wouldn't tax the EVE servers as much I would imagine as if we have to ping the CREST server constantly on combat opps for locational data on fleet activities.
Just my two cents!
Dont You worry about taxing on eve servers. Market crest can accept few houndred requests per second per user, so i dont see problem with few thousands requests per second server wide.
Since location CREST is coming anyay I dont see how creating yet another way of comunicating between client and server to be viable.
The plus/downside of CREST is that once you register with your credentials into the app and allow access to certain informations about your character you dont even need to have it opened on your end (think like siggy - where you need it opened for it to work) and it can still work server side, reading Your location every now and then and doind its stuff with it (like siggy with all cor regustered always working without them needing to open it in or out of game to draw a map - you only open it to view the map itself).
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Fidelas Constans
582
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Posted - 2016.01.04 12:37:53 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Foxfour - I would like to add another point FOR keeping IGB (as a pure browser without build in eve integration like headers and js library - just pure in game browser, with crest to work as actual browser-server communication engine)
Interface-wise IGB is part of eve UI, it can be covered by other windows I open. Any DirectX overlay will be always on top. Especially for "always open apps" (like siggy, where you want them on screen all the time) this will be frustrating as you will need to close/minimize them before doing other stuff.
Right now You can open other EVE window that will simply cover the browser, you can always click on it to bring it back, etc
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Kelath Erebus
T.I.C Solyaris Chtonium
1
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Posted - 2016.01.04 22:08:10 -
[33] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote: Dont You worry about taxing on eve servers. Market crest can accept few houndred requests per second per user, so i dont see problem with few thousands requests per second server wide.
Since location CREST is coming anyay I dont see how creating yet another way of comunicating between client and server to be viable.
The plus/downside of CREST is that once you register with your credentials into the app and allow access to certain informations about your character you dont even need to have it opened on your end (think like siggy - where you need it opened for it to work) and it can still work server side, reading Your location every now and then and doind its stuff with it (like siggy with all cor regustered always working without them needing to open it in or out of game to draw a map - you only open it to view the map itself).
Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4215
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Posted - 2016.01.05 09:34:38 -
[34] - Quote
Hey,
There were some questions about the legality of using an overlay with EVE. Specifically in reference to our EULA apparently disallowing it. I went and asked some people internally for clarification on this and I got an answer back.
For reference:
Quote:We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time.
Taken from: https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/
In essence you need to read between the lines a little. Our concern with overlays is cheating and botting. Our intention is not to hamper your enjoyment of EVE in any way. The whole point of this is that it gives us the discretion to do what we need to do to try and stop botting and cheating.
With that in mind you should all feel very safe to use overlays, assuming it "simply enhances player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay.GÇ¥
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Fidelas Constans
582
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Posted - 2016.01.05 10:49:56 -
[35] - Quote
Kelath Erebus wrote:Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI.
Emphasis on the most important aspect of IGB removal and why I'm oposing it (Esecially that I am in a single monitor situation without hope of redemption without redesigned layout of my apartament)
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Equto
Imperium Technologies DARKNESS.
51
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Posted - 2016.01.06 00:48:27 -
[36] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Kelath Erebus wrote:Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI. Emphasis on the most important aspect of IGB removal and why I'm oposing it (Esecially that I am in a single monitor situation without hope of redemption without redesigned layout of my apartament)
This is my problem as well, Its useful and I don't see the reason for removal other than support. Links are part of the eve culture from kill mails to pictures and stuff. There is little chance an overlay will accurately allow you to view these nicely and while the overlay is up playing the game is difficult. |
Kyra Lee
Ixian Machines TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
25
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Posted - 2016.01.09 06:36:47 -
[37] - Quote
I guess i'll add my opinions in here too! I don't use the igb for nearly as many things as most people in this thread, but I do still use it. The primary reason is because its much easier to use than opening up an out of game browser. I use it to look at pictures, killmails, and dotlan.
I am also involved in the Eve Radio and New Eden Radio communities. One of the first questions new people ask is how do I listen to these things. We have to tell them to open up in an out of game browser, and that usually turns people off from listening. Some find it to much hassle, some say an ogb uses to many resources, and some are playing on one monitor. I would actually like to see MORE functionality for the IGB to be an actual browser. For the radio stations to work would require flash support i think? Being able to watch youtube training videos or live twitch streams would be a really nice benefit. I guess with flash support we could also watch netflix and mine...
Overall the IGB is used for many reasons and is another thing that makes eve unique. I would hate to see it go for any reason. |
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake
208
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Posted - 2016.01.11 13:58:10 -
[38] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:CCP Foxfour - I would like to add another point FOR keeping IGB (as a pure browser without build in eve integration like headers and js library - just pure in game browser, with crest to work as actual browser-server communication engine)
Interface-wise IGB is part of eve UI, it can be covered by other windows I open. Any DirectX overlay will be always on top. Especially for "always open apps" (like siggy, where you want them on screen all the time) this will be frustrating as you will need to close/minimize them before doing other stuff.
Right now You can open other EVE window that will simply cover the browser, you can always click on it to bring it back, etc
This is my biggest concern aswell. A lot of the webbased third party tools (such as dotlan) work so well because the igb basically integrates them into the eve UI. Having to use these tools while you play in an out of game browser will be cumbersome for some people. It might even break immersion for some people that play fullscreen with 1 monitor. |
Amely Miles
Second Exile Space Monkey Protectorate
56
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Posted - 2016.01.11 15:55:27 -
[39] - Quote
Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve. Not listening to your clients CCP is why Eve currently has so many issues.
I realise that CCP does not want to deal with it but it makes the lives of its player base easier. I personally use it all the time for loads of things and think that removing it will complicate my life in Eve and ruin my immersion in to the game (Eve is Real). when i need to ALT TAB out of eve to access something it reminds me i have Facebook and email and oh crap i need to clean the house before the wife gets home... as a game company i fail to see how reminding us of the real world all the time is good for your bottom line.?
As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter.
I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me.
"I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4233
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Posted - 2016.01.11 19:09:11 -
[40] - Quote
Amely Miles wrote:Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve.
Feel free to voice your opinion but saying things like this only hurts your case. When you say this it completely invalidates your case since the majority of users DON'T use the IGB. We have metrics on it, I know how many users open the IGB, how many pages are requested with the IGB, how many times the custom JavaScript hooks are used, etc. The single biggest use of the IGB is leaving it open and letting it refresh for sites like SIggy and Tripwire to track your location in wormholes. Even with that the majority of users do NOT use the IGB. Taking the less than majority and subtracting a substantial portion of that leaves the user base of the IGB at... well not that large at all.
The rest of your points however are far more valid and being kept in mind.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3480
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Posted - 2016.01.12 00:44:30 -
[41] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Amely Miles wrote:Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve. Feel free to voice your opinion but saying things like this only hurts your case. When you say this it completely invalidates your case since the majority of users DON'T use the IGB. We have metrics on it, I know how many users open the IGB, how many pages are requested with the IGB, how many times the custom JavaScript hooks are used, etc. The single biggest use of the IGB is leaving it open and letting it refresh for sites like SIggy and Tripwire to track your location in wormholes. Even with that the majority of users do NOT use the IGB. Taking the less than majority and subtracting a substantial portion of that leaves the user base of the IGB at... well not that large at all. The rest of your points however are far more valid and being kept in mind.
i use it exclusively as picture viewer. for anything else the security risk is too high.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
240
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Posted - 2016.01.12 06:09:06 -
[42] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:If I get my way the IGB will get nuked next year. I hope to have a location service in CREST early next year so we can start the major transition away from it.
*looks at siggy's codebase needing major rewrite*
*looks at need to also switch to crest for the location tracking*
*looks at real life job to create a system handling 1 million cellular modem devices reporting data remotely in next few months*
*cries* |
Aaril
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
19
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Posted - 2016.01.12 06:51:54 -
[43] - Quote
My suggestion is to keep the browser...
BUT...add an option to disable it (or vice versa, disable and give a warning when people enable it in their options about security holes).
Also, while we're at it, let us disable links...or if we do click on a link, have it put in our clipboard. |
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
120
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Posted - 2016.01.12 09:49:32 -
[44] - Quote
Removing the IGB will sure have a benefit for CCP in the sense that they do not need to worry about people "hacking" the game or other eve players with a website. It will free resources, for sure. Considering MANY players have a tablet or a smartphone with a rather large screen, it is the right way to go.
However, I personally expect CCP to not just replace the IGB with CREST functionality, but to provide features that make me WANT to switch. Some features will obviously require you to run the EvE client (e.g., location, "showinfo", market stuff, ...), but others may not (read and ANSWERE eve mail, modify the skill queue, etc...).
Communication with the community about those features is key! Make a focus group, hold a chat, gather some developers together on slack, etc.... Because if you lose your 3rd-party developers (which are the main reasons that large groups of people can enjoy the game together, and not just solo), then you will eventually lose your players.
TL;DR: If they (CCP) kill the IGB, they need to provide KILLER FEATURES for CREST to make the change worth it. Communication is key. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4234
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Posted - 2016.01.12 10:34:30 -
[45] - Quote
BigSako wrote:Removing the IGB will sure have a benefit for CCP in the sense that they do not need to worry about people "hacking" the game or other eve players with a website. It will free resources, for sure. Considering MANY players have a tablet or a smartphone with a rather large screen, it is the right way to go.
However, I personally expect CCP to not just replace the IGB with CREST functionality, but to provide features that make me WANT to switch. Some features will obviously require you to run the EvE client (e.g., location, "showinfo", market stuff, ...), but others may not (read and ANSWERE eve mail, modify the skill queue, etc...).
Communication with the community about those features is key! Make a focus group, hold a chat, gather some developers together on slack, etc.... Because if you lose your 3rd-party developers (which are the main reasons that large groups of people can enjoy the game together, and not just solo), then you will eventually lose your players.
TL;DR: If they (CCP) kill the IGB, they need to provide KILLER FEATURES for CREST to make the change worth it. Communication is key.
So basically the existing plan? As is being proven with todays release of things like location and editing waypoints from CREST. Our pain point is going to be not with people that use the custom features of the IGB but with the people who only have 1 monitor and don't want to alt tab. Even as we add features to CREST that are not in the IGB they are going to want those features in the IGB in some way because they don't want to alt tab.
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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Fonac
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
117
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Posted - 2016.01.12 11:22:24 -
[46] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:BigSako wrote:Removing the IGB will sure have a benefit for CCP in the sense that they do not need to worry about people "hacking" the game or other eve players with a website. It will free resources, for sure. Considering MANY players have a tablet or a smartphone with a rather large screen, it is the right way to go.
However, I personally expect CCP to not just replace the IGB with CREST functionality, but to provide features that make me WANT to switch. Some features will obviously require you to run the EvE client (e.g., location, "showinfo", market stuff, ...), but others may not (read and ANSWERE eve mail, modify the skill queue, etc...).
Communication with the community about those features is key! Make a focus group, hold a chat, gather some developers together on slack, etc.... Because if you lose your 3rd-party developers (which are the main reasons that large groups of people can enjoy the game together, and not just solo), then you will eventually lose your players.
TL;DR: If they (CCP) kill the IGB, they need to provide KILLER FEATURES for CREST to make the change worth it. Communication is key. So basically the existing plan? As is being proven with todays release of things like location and editing waypoints from CREST. Our pain point is going to be not with people that use the custom features of the IGB but with the people who only have 1 monitor and don't want to alt tab. Even as we add features to CREST that are not in the IGB they are going to want those features in the IGB in some way because they don't want to alt tab.
I'll be honest, i do not have the overview to understand what exactly CREST does, and what the possiblities are in the future. However....
People that can't/won't alt-tab must be a minority... I mean really, alt-tabbing is one of the most beneficial thing you can do while using a computer. I could not imagine a world where alt-tabbing was something i never used, it's only going to limit your abilities, if you abstain from using such an usefull feature of the windows eco system. Please don't limit your features, because of such people :)
... Oh and also keep up the good work
Edit: So i just read up on CREST... My point still stands.. Who are those people |
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
120
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Posted - 2016.01.12 12:55:15 -
[47] - Quote
Thanks for the reply! Yes, the current endpoints are looking good, let's see what the community makes out of them. However, an excellent example of people that only have on monitor are laptop users. Forcing them to alt-tab might be.... bad? I don't know.
But again, if CREST (or rather the apps that use CREST) offer the ability to use external devices (read: smartphones/tablets), then alt-tabbing this is no longer an issue. I believe the number of people that really "browse the web" in their IGB is rather limited, and alt-tab is a viable option for those people. |
Bruce Warhead
Fun is Pain
8
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Posted - 2016.01.12 19:15:15 -
[48] - Quote
If CCP replace used functionality of the IGB with crest data that is available in reasonable usable time intervals, I do not have a problem with removing the IGB. It is better to be able to use proper website in modern day browsers out of game and have the same functionality then have your website need to function on the ingame browser.
And CCP is already showing that they are going to provide functionality that is going to be lost with the IGB on other resources. The recent CharacterLocation resource shows that. So yeah if they are going to keep up the functionality I am all for replacing the ingame browser actually!
But please keep the IGB until the needed data is available over other methods :)
What would be harder to replace are probably functionalities like opening mail windows, sending fleet invites and such by pressing a button in a browser. It would be nice if the client would just get an interface that you could connect to from an application on the same computer to execute those actions.
Might be a good idea to even make them http post/get calls to actually enable browser websites to call those with simple cross domain ajax requests to localhost. (Pretty sure that would require the client to set that Access-Control-Allow-Origin header and you could like specifiy in the local clients settings it self a list of allowed websites, or pop up a message when a website that is not in the list connects for the first time. Ofc answer that first call without the calling website in the header, just if the user clicks yes, have the website added to the header the next time.
Sure website will need to update the way they access data, but that should not be that hard.
Well that would be my ideas to that matter :) From some one who just prepared to actually create a website for the ingame browser and on his research hit this forum entry. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
4236
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Posted - 2016.01.13 09:12:01 -
[49] - Quote
Jack Tronic wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:If I get my way the IGB will get nuked next year. I hope to have a location service in CREST early next year so we can start the major transition away from it. *looks at siggy's codebase needing major rewrite* *looks at need to also switch to crest for the location tracking* *looks at real life job to create a system handling 1 million cellular modem devices reporting data remotely in next few months* *cries*
I know the feels. :( If there is anything I can do to help please let me know!
@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co
Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
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lost packet
Alpha Flight Almost Broken
91
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Posted - 2016.02.13 01:54:26 -
[50] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:What do you use the IGB for? Couple of things regularly used:-
- Being able to visit a site, such as one containing alliance fits, click on a fit, click buy all. (lazy?)
- Being able to use [custom] sites for finding [alliance] contracts and setting up logistics contracts
- dScan tools which allow you to quickly click on the ship-type to pull up the description
- KOS checkers used in Provi, which allow you to click on a pilot/corp/alliance to quickly set standings, especially the ones that check multiple pilots in local.
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Sugilite
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
29
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Posted - 2016.02.15 05:38:27 -
[51] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Max Kolonko wrote:Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page. What do you use the IGB for?
http://i.imgur.com/r9i0SvV.png That's what I use most.
I can't believe lost packet was the only other person to mention dscan. Oh god need the ability to share that information easily.
Being able to show info on things/set destination/other stuff in the IGB is so good. Need. In my SS you can see you can click on that little info button to show info on any of those. |
Captain Panther
Polite-people-KGB United Fleet
6
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Posted - 2016.02.15 16:59:30 -
[52] - Quote
And i just want to be able to easily open those cute GIFs in a game window during the gang roam >.<
UFR - -¦-¦-+-¦-+ -Ç-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦-¦ -ƒ-¦-ƒ -¦-+-î-Å-+-ü-¦ United Fleet. -Æ-¦-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-¦-+-Ç -+-+-+-+-é-+-¦ -ü-+-+-é-¦-¦-é-ü-é-¦-â-Ä-ë-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-+-Ç-¦-¦-+-¦-+-+-Å -¦-+-Å -Ç-+-â-+-+-¦ -+-+ -+-+-â-ü-¦-¦-â -¦ -ü-+-ü-é-¦-¦-¦ -ä-+-+-é-¦ -¦-+-î-Å-+-ü-¦ :)
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Laranell
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2016.02.23 21:31:06 -
[53] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Amely Miles wrote:Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve. Feel free to voice your opinion but saying things like this only hurts your case. When you say this it completely invalidates your case since the majority of users DON'T use the IGB. We have metrics on it, I know how many users open the IGB, how many pages are requested with the IGB, how many times the custom JavaScript hooks are used, etc. The single biggest use of the IGB is leaving it open and letting it refresh for sites like SIggy and Tripwire to track your location in wormholes. Even with that the majority of users do NOT use the IGB. Taking the less than majority and subtracting a substantial portion of that leaves the user base of the IGB at... well not that large at all. The rest of your points however are far more valid and being kept in mind.
How do your metrics from when it was up to date compare to now?
I would use it more when actually playing if I could watch videos and ****, but I guess that was never the intended use anyway. For a while I could just use a stay on top Chrome window, but the addon I was using died. I play triplemon with the client actually using all three. It was nice leaving browser open in an empty space on one side looking up fittings and other noob stuff. To be frank I more often used that stay on top for various EVE things because the IGB was garbage.
I don't understand all the hate for the IGB. It's really a unique feature that has the chance to actually keep people in-game (even while being side-tracked) but seems to get poopood all day long. Is it really that much of a pain in the ass to just update it?
I feel like a properly supported browser in-game means more content in-game. If you're not tabbed out of the game you're more likely to be a part of something going on. Is my thinking incorrect? |
Dilagant
Butterfly Effect The Company.
3
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Posted - 2016.04.21 23:25:56 -
[54] - Quote
CCP, If you need some money to update the IGB, start a "Go Fund Me" and I'll give you some cash. If you want to know how much we love it, give us a survey. I don't get to chat with CSM members much, but I will do a survey. |
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