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Hey CCP! Can we have an IGB update?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Mona Kasenumi Wrong Cyno Brothers of Tangra 15	Posted - 2015.12.17 00:05:05 - [1] - Quote Hello, I think that CCP does use chromium to give the game some cute browser capabilities. This same browser is quite outdated at the moment as it doesn't support the latest version of many things that exist out there (latest jquery, angular material, bootstrap 4 and so on). Can we have a version update pretty please? It would help a LOT as we would be able to use the latest tech in our tools. Thanks <3
Mr Twinkie Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 30	Posted - 2015.12.17 00:53:47 - [2] - Quote CCP has stated the IGB will be going away eventually. Which is why most devs will tell you not to bother coding for it anymore. MAMBA Head of IT
Mona Kasenumi Wrong Cyno Brothers of Tangra 15	Posted - 2015.12.17 01:50:20 - [3] - Quote I know, but this might take a long while
Mr Twinkie Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 30	Posted - 2015.12.17 02:14:45 - [4] - Quote I'd rather they just pull the plug and have links open oog already... any modern site is broken as all hell igb MAMBA Head of IT
Mona Kasenumi Wrong Cyno Brothers of Tangra 15	Posted - 2015.12.17 02:36:42 - [5] - Quote Everyone would love that, but until then its not really cool to just limit what devs could do due old tech.
David Davaham 0	Posted - 2015.12.18 07:44:01 - [6] - Quote The devs are not being limited if they don't intent for the site to be opened in the IGB. It actually lifts the limit and allows them to build a modern site. That is one of the things that got to me right after I started playing the game. I hated that the devs that have developed awesome sites for the game had to make the site look like crap because the IGB was is incapable of understanding modern code.
Louis Vitton Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 83	Posted - 2015.12.18 08:53:03 - [7] - Quote Mona Kasenumi wrote: Everyone would love that, but until then its not really cool to just limit what devs could do due old tech. In simple terms why invest time / money in something that currently works in a limited fashion that they have stated they want to remove.
Mr Twinkie Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 30	Posted - 2015.12.18 09:26:52 - [8] - Quote I can't see it being that hard to launch links in an oog browser.. Hell making a browser launch in an overlay like say steam should be easy as balls. MAMBA Head of IT

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4195	Posted - 2015.12.18 11:27:36 - [9] - Quote If I get my way the IGB will get nuked next year. I hope to have a location service in CREST early next year so we can start the major transition away from it. @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Equto Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 50	Posted - 2015.12.18 12:42:38 - [10] - Quote Socks a big meany pushing around the IGB, saying hes going to kill it and get rid of it
Max Kolonko WATAHA. Fidelas Constans 579	Posted - 2015.12.18 12:53:04 - [11] - Quote Hey FoxFour, what if instead of nuking it completly just remove all igb integration. So no location cia headers and no igb java script. But leave it as an in-game browser for links. Maybe thus way you dont have to make new version everytime chromium get updated? And we can still use crest tools in game without alt tabing. Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page. Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4198	Posted - 2015.12.19 13:46:22 - [12] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page. What do you use the IGB for? @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.


CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4198	Posted - 2015.12.19 13:46:51 - [13] - Quote Equto wrote: Socks a big meany pushing around the IGB, saying hes going to kill it and get rid of it I have the gun loaded and ready, just waiting for the IGB to make its peace first. :P @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Max Kolonko WATAHA. Fidelas Constans 579	Posted - 2015.12.19 15:54:56 - [14] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Max Kolonko wrote: Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page. What do you use the IGB for? Siggy obviously to map whs, to set dedtination to/from entrence and show info on system Dotlan and other map tools to set destination, add waypoints and show info on sysyems Dotlan radar to see where i am (tell ui guys to fix map btw, its beauty but not much location awareness available) Fleetup to open market for specific item and ingame fit screen Various market tools to open market info on item and show info ZKillboard links from chat Adashboard and other intell tools to copy paste stuf from game into page or read others results Paplinks Cat pics from chat UNTILL RECENTLY FOR GDOCS HEAVILY I think that covers most of my usage Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Lucius Victus Repercussus Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2015.12.20 03:53:14 - [15] - Quote I don't understand why you guys WANT to get rid of it. Like Max above me I absolute love the thing. Like the site that has all our fits. It's so much easier to navigate through doctrines than through the fitting browser. Market tools also use the IGB in pretty nifty ways. When I still lived in wormholes the mappers we used also had IGB functions that I used a lot. I guess a lot of people have dual screens (or more) these days but it would be quite a hassle if you're one of the guys with only 1 screen and have to tab out all the time. Like I said, I have no idea why you guys would want to get rid of it instead of expanding on it. But if you don't want to update it just leave it as it is
Soleil Fournier Ultimatum. The Bastion 55	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:02:32 - [16] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: What do you use the IGB for? Dotlan, eve-central, killboards, jump planner are all easier to use with the IGB rather than alt-tabbing every single time I want to change something on those websites and then compare it in game. It's also super nice when people paste links to websites in chat that I don't have to go out of game to open the link. And heck, just going to Google is much nicer when I don't have to alt tab out of the game to do it. The IGB is super useful to us for game related purposes (and non related as well)and I think that's being under-appreciated by the devs.
xHjfx The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 11	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:32:50 - [17] - Quote It would be nice if you guys replace it with CEF (https://bitbucket.org/chromiumembedded/cef) or update your existing implementation rather than just outright kill it . Sometimes it's more convenient to check things ingame rather than look at it OOG and that is something that CREST doesn't solve.
Mona Kasenumi Wrong Cyno Brothers of Tangra 15	Posted - 2015.12.20 06:27:59 - [18] - Quote Glad that this turned in an useful discussion!! If you are able to give us a modern IGB (with CEF maybe? or whatever thing that is easy for you guys to keep without worrying too much about) plus the ingame javascript capability that we have today, you could get ride of the entire header thing as this is even not really secure for devs to rely on. The javascript lib to open things ingame and set routes is quite useful.
Haffsol 44	Posted - 2015.12.20 11:02:44 - [19] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: What do you use the IGB for? Siggy obviously to map whs, to set dedtination to/from entrence and show info on system Dotlan and other map tools to set destination, add waypoints and show info on sysyems Dotlan radar to see where i am (tell ui guys to fix map btw, its beauty but not much location awareness available) Fleetup to open market for specific item and ingame fit screen Various market tools to open market info on item and show info ZKillboard links from chat Adashboard and other intell tools to copy paste stuf from game into page or read others results Paplinks Cat pics from chat UNTILL RECENTLY FOR GDOCS HEAVILY I think that covers most of my usage ^ This. That being said I really hope CCP decides which way to go: invest some effort and make it really useful and not that sort of minmatar tool which is today or get rid of it providing a way to have all those FUNDAMENTAL features (mostly tracking position and sharing info with fleet/corp mates) via CREST or whatever means can guarantee to be not exploited by foes and third parties in general.
xHjfx The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 11	Posted - 2015.12.20 11:31:31 - [20] - Quote Well the current IGB was leaps ahead of the old one however it was also meant to be easier to maintain and see updates but they left it without attention for years without addressing it then came out by stating oh it's old, out of date and is planned for removal. Even if they had committed to a yearly/bi-yearly update, it would have been in a better state. To be honest FoxFour seems pretty set in his ways and has been running telemetry on how the IGB is being used - so it's definitely going whether we like it or not judging by his last post on here.
Stable Cusp Quintec Wormhole Exploration 7	Posted - 2015.12.20 12:40:12 - [21] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: What do you use the IGB for? Automagical mapping and mass monitoring wormholes in siggy. Different points in different clients. I have a website to calculate components for T2/T3 builds that uses IGB javascript to open buy windows. Checking chat links, without having to right-click, copy, alt-tab, paste, alt-tab. If you've got a scheme for transparently passing information between the whole ecosystem of OGBs and multiple, distinct clients, please give us a hint. I can see how interactive CREST can do some of those functions, but it seems like some of those would be really awkward. Coordinating three or four clients with three or four OGB windows linked to each account seems unpleasantly more complicated than an IGB. Passing messages from an OGB to the client seems like a massive opportunity for abuse.
SJ Astralana Syncore 136	Posted - 2015.12.20 20:56:44 - [22] - Quote I use it to pop up buy orders from item links as well as to easily see my production business alongside client windows. I would gladly tolerate the javascript quirks in exchange for a sell item popup and update buy/sell popups keyed on asset id. I also play on a single monitor and it would be a hassle to half-screen browser and client. Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager
BigSako Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 119	Posted - 2015.12.21 14:42:41 - [23] - Quote SJ Astralana wrote: I use it to pop up buy orders from item links as well as to easily see my production business alongside client windows. I would gladly tolerate the javascript quirks in exchange for a sell item popup and update buy/sell popups keyed on asset id. I also play on a single monitor and it would be a hassle to half-screen browser and client. Same here. I have an IGB site where I mainly use the commands to pop up the buy item window. Though I'd love to see (and test, CCP feel free to contact me!) any new mechanic with CREST that allows the same behaviour. edit: the exact methods I am using are: CCPEVE.showMarketDetails( ... ) as well as CCPEVE.buyType( ... )
BigSako Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 119	Posted - 2015.12.21 14:47:47 - [24] - Quote Stable Cusp wrote: Passing messages from an OGB to the client seems like a massive opportunity for abuse. Yes and no. If CCP enables this, they can not claim that someone hacked the game etc... So if they enable it, they will most likely only have CREST stuff available, which will also slow down some things ...
Mhari Dson Lazy Brothers Inc 125	Posted - 2015.12.29 19:37:33 - [25] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Max Kolonko wrote: Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page. What do you use the IGB for? Siggy obviously to map whs, to set dedtination to/from entrence and show info on system Dotlan and other map tools to set destination, add waypoints and show info on sysyems Dotlan radar to see where i am (tell ui guys to fix map btw, its beauty but not much location awareness available) Fleetup to open market for specific item and ingame fit screen Various market tools to open market info on item and show info ZKillboard links from chat Adashboard and other intell tools to copy paste stuf from game into page or read others results Paplinks Cat pics from chat UNTILL RECENTLY FOR GDOCS HEAVILY I think that covers most of my usage +1 to all of these
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor Phoebe Freeport Republic 1693	Posted - 2015.12.29 20:38:55 - [26] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Max Kolonko wrote: Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page. What do you use the IGB for? Siggy obviously to map whs, to set dedtination to/from entrence and show info on system Dotlan and other map tools to set destination, add waypoints and show info on sysyems Dotlan radar to see where i am (tell ui guys to fix map btw, its beauty but not much location awareness available) Fleetup to open market for specific item and ingame fit screen Various market tools to open market info on item and show info ZKillboard links from chat Adashboard and other intell tools to copy paste stuf from game into page or read others results Paplinks Cat pics from chat UNTILL RECENTLY FOR GDOCS HEAVILY I think that covers most of my usage Me too on this. I never understood the whole 'CREST will replace the IGB' line. I use it to browse sites in game when I'm in full screen mode. I never understood how crest was going to allow that but gathered that the IGB was more of a link to the data in game instead of a dedicated browser. Then it makes sense to replace it with crest but I don't think you get how nice it is to have in game for just general use. When google docs became available then we really could have spreadsheets in space. It was a huge bonus to so many things. GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
xHjfx The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 15	Posted - 2015.12.29 22:38:59 - [27] - Quote Zifrian wrote: Max Kolonko wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Max Kolonko wrote: Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page. What do you use the IGB for? Siggy obviously to map whs, to set dedtination to/from entrence and show info on system Dotlan and other map tools to set destination, add waypoints and show info on sysyems Dotlan radar to see where i am (tell ui guys to fix map btw, its beauty but not much location awareness available) Fleetup to open market for specific item and ingame fit screen Various market tools to open market info on item and show info ZKillboard links from chat Adashboard and other intell tools to copy paste stuf from game into page or read others results Paplinks Cat pics from chat UNTILL RECENTLY FOR GDOCS HEAVILY I think that covers most of my usage Me too on this. I never understood the whole 'CREST will replace the IGB' line. I use it to browse sites in game when I'm in full screen mode. I never understood how crest was going to allow that but gathered that the IGB was more of a link to the data in game instead of a dedicated browser. Then it makes sense to replace it with crest but I don't think you get how nice it is to have in game for just general use. When google docs became available then we really could have spreadsheets in space. It was a huge bonus to so many things. The IGB provides headers such as the pilots location, name, etc which is what CREST will provide I figure - it won't replace the ability to browse ingame which they want to remove.
Kelath Erebus T.I.C Solyaris Chtonium 1	Posted - 2015.12.31 17:32:22 - [28] - Quote I posted this in another browser related thread. But... Since you're set on removing the browser app, perhaps replace it with a beacon app. What I mean is, a pilot clicks on the app and can enter a series of URLs perhaps with a status toggle (on/off). Every time a pilot switches systems the beacon app fires a JSON formatted POST to the URLs that are "on". This would allow for pilots to send the data in the browser header to the websites in a nicely formatted manner, without having to continue to manage the in-game browser in all its modified glory. This could be expanded down the road, so perhaps specific actions fire off the beacon. I could see this useful for mining, for instance next to the URL in the beacon app there is a "config/settings/options" button. Select that and a modal pops-up providing the pilot the ability to choose what data they want sent to the URL, include additional things that perhaps are already logged locally, like mining data, combat data. It would be infinitely useful to have such data automatically sent to web applications for consumption when they occur. I would imagine the above would be a lot easier to manage then the full modified web browser, while still providing the pilots of EVE the ability to send live data to web applications and potentially data that isn't already available over time. The possibilities are endless and they wouldn't tax the EVE servers as much I would imagine as if we have to ping the CREST server constantly on combat opps for locational data on fleet activities. Just my two cents!
Louis Vitton Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 86	Posted - 2016.01.01 10:00:53 - [29] - Quote What your describing with "beacon" is whats called "long polling" or "webSockets". I personally would prefer CCP to implement webSockets for some things, i believe this should be configured out of game like the API, if not configured it could be tied to crest and require a specific authentication scope in Oauth2, register for the webSocket and then wait for the data to flow.. Here is some information on it. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10028770/html5-websocket-vs-long-polling-vs-ajax-vs-webrtc-vs-server-sent-events
Kelath Erebus T.I.C Solyaris Chtonium 1	Posted - 2016.01.02 01:54:49 - [30] - Quote I don't see EVE creating a special API outside of CREST since that's what they're trying to push and move everything too and I haven't played around with CREST yet to formulate a response. One thing I understand about CREST is like the API it relies on the website to make requests to EVE, so unlike beacon which would be active once the pilot starts EVE, with CREST you'd have to check to see what pilots are online I'd imagine then start pulling the what would have been in the header data or JSON data with beacon. Plus with CREST you're restricted by the number of requests which isn't a problem for small corps, but could be an issue for larger alliances or popular sites providing tools utilizing for multiple corps and alliances.
Max Kolonko WATAHA. Fidelas Constans 582	Posted - 2016.01.04 10:39:17 - [31] - Quote Kelath Erebus wrote: I posted this in another browser related thread. But... Since you're set on removing the browser app, perhaps replace it with a beacon app. What I mean is, a pilot clicks on the app and can enter a series of URLs perhaps with a status toggle (on/off). Every time a pilot switches systems the beacon app fires a JSON formatted POST to the URLs that are "on". This would allow for pilots to send the data in the browser header to the websites in a nicely formatted manner, without having to continue to manage the in-game browser in all its modified glory. This could be expanded down the road, so perhaps specific actions fire off the beacon. I could see this useful for mining, for instance next to the URL in the beacon app there is a "config/settings/options" button. Select that and a modal pops-up providing the pilot the ability to choose what data they want sent to the URL, include additional things that perhaps are already logged locally, like mining data, combat data. It would be infinitely useful to have such data automatically sent to web applications for consumption when they occur. I would imagine the above would be a lot easier to manage then the full modified web browser, while still providing the pilots of EVE the ability to send live data to web applications and potentially data that isn't already available over time. The possibilities are endless and they wouldn't tax the EVE servers as much I would imagine as if we have to ping the CREST server constantly on combat opps for locational data on fleet activities. Just my two cents! Dont You worry about taxing on eve servers. Market crest can accept few houndred requests per second per user, so i dont see problem with few thousands requests per second server wide. Since location CREST is coming anyay I dont see how creating yet another way of comunicating between client and server to be viable. The plus/downside of CREST is that once you register with your credentials into the app and allow access to certain informations about your character you dont even need to have it opened on your end (think like siggy - where you need it opened for it to work) and it can still work server side, reading Your location every now and then and doind its stuff with it (like siggy with all cor regustered always working without them needing to open it in or out of game to draw a map - you only open it to view the map itself). Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Max Kolonko WATAHA. Fidelas Constans 582	Posted - 2016.01.04 12:37:53 - [32] - Quote CCP Foxfour - I would like to add another point FOR keeping IGB (as a pure browser without build in eve integration like headers and js library - just pure in game browser, with crest to work as actual browser-server communication engine) Interface-wise IGB is part of eve UI, it can be covered by other windows I open. Any DirectX overlay will be always on top. Especially for "always open apps" (like siggy, where you want them on screen all the time) this will be frustrating as you will need to close/minimize them before doing other stuff. Right now You can open other EVE window that will simply cover the browser, you can always click on it to bring it back, etc Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Kelath Erebus T.I.C Solyaris Chtonium 1	Posted - 2016.01.04 22:08:10 - [33] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: Dont You worry about taxing on eve servers. Market crest can accept few houndred requests per second per user, so i dont see problem with few thousands requests per second server wide. Since location CREST is coming anyay I dont see how creating yet another way of comunicating between client and server to be viable. The plus/downside of CREST is that once you register with your credentials into the app and allow access to certain informations about your character you dont even need to have it opened on your end (think like siggy - where you need it opened for it to work) and it can still work server side, reading Your location every now and then and doind its stuff with it (like siggy with all cor regustered always working without them needing to open it in or out of game to draw a map - you only open it to view the map itself). Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4215	Posted - 2016.01.05 09:34:38 - [34] - Quote Hey, There were some questions about the legality of using an overlay with EVE. Specifically in reference to our EULA apparently disallowing it. I went and asked some people internally for clarification on this and I got an answer back. For reference: Quote: We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay. For instance, the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time. Taken from: https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/third-party-policies/ In essence you need to read between the lines a little. Our concern with overlays is cheating and botting. Our intention is not to hamper your enjoyment of EVE in any way. The whole point of this is that it gives us the discretion to do what we need to do to try and stop botting and cheating. With that in mind you should all feel very safe to use overlays, assuming it "simply enhances player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay.GÇ¥ @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Max Kolonko WATAHA. Fidelas Constans 582	Posted - 2016.01.05 10:49:56 - [35] - Quote Kelath Erebus wrote: Max Kolonko wrote: ... Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI. Emphasis on the most important aspect of IGB removal and why I'm oposing it (Esecially that I am in a single monitor situation without hope of redemption without redesigned layout of my apartament) Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff?
Equto Imperium Technologies DARKNESS. 51	Posted - 2016.01.06 00:48:27 - [36] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: Kelath Erebus wrote: Max Kolonko wrote: ... Thanks for the informative post Max, I didn't quiet understand how CREST works (which is an issue I'm working on rectifying right now with a few projects), With the way you put it, then yes, I don't see any issue at all with the removal of IGB apart from it being nice to have an in-game browser now and again that is fully integrated with the game UI. Emphasis on the most important aspect of IGB removal and why I'm oposing it (Esecially that I am in a single monitor situation without hope of redemption without redesigned layout of my apartament) This is my problem as well, Its useful and I don't see the reason for removal other than support. Links are part of the eve culture from kill mails to pictures and stuff. There is little chance an overlay will accurately allow you to view these nicely and while the overlay is up playing the game is difficult.
Kyra Lee Ixian Machines TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance 25	Posted - 2016.01.09 06:36:47 - [37] - Quote I guess i'll add my opinions in here too! I don't use the igb for nearly as many things as most people in this thread, but I do still use it. The primary reason is because its much easier to use than opening up an out of game browser. I use it to look at pictures, killmails, and dotlan. I am also involved in the Eve Radio and New Eden Radio communities. One of the first questions new people ask is how do I listen to these things. We have to tell them to open up in an out of game browser, and that usually turns people off from listening. Some find it to much hassle, some say an ogb uses to many resources, and some are playing on one monitor. I would actually like to see MORE functionality for the IGB to be an actual browser. For the radio stations to work would require flash support i think? Being able to watch youtube training videos or live twitch streams would be a really nice benefit. I guess with flash support we could also watch netflix and mine... Overall the IGB is used for many reasons and is another thing that makes eve unique. I would hate to see it go for any reason.
Bloemkoolsaus Viperfleet Inc. It Must Be Jelly Cause Jam Don't Shake 208	Posted - 2016.01.11 13:58:10 - [38] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: CCP Foxfour - I would like to add another point FOR keeping IGB (as a pure browser without build in eve integration like headers and js library - just pure in game browser, with crest to work as actual browser-server communication engine) Interface-wise IGB is part of eve UI, it can be covered by other windows I open. Any DirectX overlay will be always on top. Especially for "always open apps" (like siggy, where you want them on screen all the time) this will be frustrating as you will need to close/minimize them before doing other stuff. Right now You can open other EVE window that will simply cover the browser, you can always click on it to bring it back, etc This is my biggest concern aswell. A lot of the webbased third party tools (such as dotlan) work so well because the igb basically integrates them into the eve UI. Having to use these tools while you play in an out of game browser will be cumbersome for some people. It might even break immersion for some people that play fullscreen with 1 monitor.
Amely Miles Second Exile Space Monkey Protectorate 56	Posted - 2016.01.11 15:55:27 - [39] - Quote Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve. Not listening to your clients CCP is why Eve currently has so many issues. I realise that CCP does not want to deal with it but it makes the lives of its player base easier. I personally use it all the time for loads of things and think that removing it will complicate my life in Eve and ruin my immersion in to the game (Eve is Real). when i need to ALT TAB out of eve to access something it reminds me i have Facebook and email and oh crap i need to clean the house before the wife gets home... as a game company i fail to see how reminding us of the real world all the time is good for your bottom line.? As I slipped my finger slowly inside her hole, I could immediately feel it getting wetter and wetter. I took my finger back out and within seconds she was going down on me. "I really need a new boat," I thought to myself.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4233	Posted - 2016.01.11 19:09:11 - [40] - Quote Amely Miles wrote: Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve. Feel free to voice your opinion but saying things like this only hurts your case. When you say this it completely invalidates your case since the majority of users DON'T use the IGB. We have metrics on it, I know how many users open the IGB, how many pages are requested with the IGB, how many times the custom JavaScript hooks are used, etc. The single biggest use of the IGB is leaving it open and letting it refresh for sites like SIggy and Tripwire to track your location in wormholes. Even with that the majority of users do NOT use the IGB. Taking the less than majority and subtracting a substantial portion of that leaves the user base of the IGB at... well not that large at all. The rest of your points however are far more valid and being kept in mind. @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Bienator II madmen of the skies 3480	Posted - 2016.01.12 00:44:30 - [41] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Amely Miles wrote: Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve. Feel free to voice your opinion but saying things like this only hurts your case. When you say this it completely invalidates your case since the majority of users DON'T use the IGB. We have metrics on it, I know how many users open the IGB, how many pages are requested with the IGB, how many times the custom JavaScript hooks are used, etc. The single biggest use of the IGB is leaving it open and letting it refresh for sites like SIggy and Tripwire to track your location in wormholes. Even with that the majority of users do NOT use the IGB. Taking the less than majority and subtracting a substantial portion of that leaves the user base of the IGB at... well not that large at all. The rest of your points however are far more valid and being kept in mind. i use it exclusively as picture viewer. for anything else the security risk is too high. how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Jack Tronic borkedLabs 240	Posted - 2016.01.12 06:09:06 - [42] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: If I get my way the IGB will get nuked next year. I hope to have a location service in CREST early next year so we can start the major transition away from it. looks at siggy's codebase needing major rewrite looks at need to also switch to crest for the location tracking looks at real life job to create a system handling 1 million cellular modem devices reporting data remotely in next few months cries
Aaril Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 19	Posted - 2016.01.12 06:51:54 - [43] - Quote My suggestion is to keep the browser... BUT...add an option to disable it (or vice versa, disable and give a warning when people enable it in their options about security holes). Also, while we're at it, let us disable links...or if we do click on a link, have it put in our clipboard.
BigSako Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 120	Posted - 2016.01.12 09:49:32 - [44] - Quote Removing the IGB will sure have a benefit for CCP in the sense that they do not need to worry about people "hacking" the game or other eve players with a website. It will free resources, for sure. Considering MANY players have a tablet or a smartphone with a rather large screen, it is the right way to go. However, I personally expect CCP to not just replace the IGB with CREST functionality, but to provide features that make me WANT to switch. Some features will obviously require you to run the EvE client (e.g., location, "showinfo", market stuff, ...), but others may not (read and ANSWERE eve mail, modify the skill queue, etc...). Communication with the community about those features is key! Make a focus group, hold a chat, gather some developers together on slack, etc.... Because if you lose your 3rd-party developers (which are the main reasons that large groups of people can enjoy the game together, and not just solo), then you will eventually lose your players. TL;DR: If they (CCP) kill the IGB, they need to provide KILLER FEATURES for CREST to make the change worth it. Communication is key.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4234	Posted - 2016.01.12 10:34:30 - [45] - Quote BigSako wrote: Removing the IGB will sure have a benefit for CCP in the sense that they do not need to worry about people "hacking" the game or other eve players with a website. It will free resources, for sure. Considering MANY players have a tablet or a smartphone with a rather large screen, it is the right way to go. However, I personally expect CCP to not just replace the IGB with CREST functionality, but to provide features that make me WANT to switch. Some features will obviously require you to run the EvE client (e.g., location, "showinfo", market stuff, ...), but others may not (read and ANSWERE eve mail, modify the skill queue, etc...). Communication with the community about those features is key! Make a focus group, hold a chat, gather some developers together on slack, etc.... Because if you lose your 3rd-party developers (which are the main reasons that large groups of people can enjoy the game together, and not just solo), then you will eventually lose your players. TL;DR: If they (CCP) kill the IGB, they need to provide KILLER FEATURES for CREST to make the change worth it. Communication is key. So basically the existing plan? As is being proven with todays release of things like location and editing waypoints from CREST. Our pain point is going to be not with people that use the custom features of the IGB but with the people who only have 1 monitor and don't want to alt tab. Even as we add features to CREST that are not in the IGB they are going to want those features in the IGB in some way because they don't want to alt tab. @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Fonac Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 117	Posted - 2016.01.12 11:22:24 - [46] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: BigSako wrote: Removing the IGB will sure have a benefit for CCP in the sense that they do not need to worry about people "hacking" the game or other eve players with a website. It will free resources, for sure. Considering MANY players have a tablet or a smartphone with a rather large screen, it is the right way to go. However, I personally expect CCP to not just replace the IGB with CREST functionality, but to provide features that make me WANT to switch. Some features will obviously require you to run the EvE client (e.g., location, "showinfo", market stuff, ...), but others may not (read and ANSWERE eve mail, modify the skill queue, etc...). Communication with the community about those features is key! Make a focus group, hold a chat, gather some developers together on slack, etc.... Because if you lose your 3rd-party developers (which are the main reasons that large groups of people can enjoy the game together, and not just solo), then you will eventually lose your players. TL;DR: If they (CCP) kill the IGB, they need to provide KILLER FEATURES for CREST to make the change worth it. Communication is key. So basically the existing plan? As is being proven with todays release of things like location and editing waypoints from CREST. Our pain point is going to be not with people that use the custom features of the IGB but with the people who only have 1 monitor and don't want to alt tab. Even as we add features to CREST that are not in the IGB they are going to want those features in the IGB in some way because they don't want to alt tab. I'll be honest, i do not have the overview to understand what exactly CREST does, and what the possiblities are in the future. However.... People that can't/won't alt-tab must be a minority... I mean really, alt-tabbing is one of the most beneficial thing you can do while using a computer. I could not imagine a world where alt-tabbing was something i never used, it's only going to limit your abilities, if you abstain from using such an usefull feature of the windows eco system. Please don't limit your features, because of such people :) ... Oh and also keep up the good work Edit: So i just read up on CREST... My point still stands.. Who are those people
BigSako Burning Napalm Northern Coalition. 120	Posted - 2016.01.12 12:55:15 - [47] - Quote Thanks for the reply! Yes, the current endpoints are looking good, let's see what the community makes out of them. However, an excellent example of people that only have on monitor are laptop users. Forcing them to alt-tab might be.... bad? I don't know. But again, if CREST (or rather the apps that use CREST) offer the ability to use external devices (read: smartphones/tablets), then alt-tabbing this is no longer an issue. I believe the number of people that really "browse the web" in their IGB is rather limited, and alt-tab is a viable option for those people.
Bruce Warhead Fun is Pain 8	Posted - 2016.01.12 19:15:15 - [48] - Quote If CCP replace used functionality of the IGB with crest data that is available in reasonable usable time intervals, I do not have a problem with removing the IGB. It is better to be able to use proper website in modern day browsers out of game and have the same functionality then have your website need to function on the ingame browser. And CCP is already showing that they are going to provide functionality that is going to be lost with the IGB on other resources. The recent CharacterLocation resource shows that. So yeah if they are going to keep up the functionality I am all for replacing the ingame browser actually! But please keep the IGB until the needed data is available over other methods :) What would be harder to replace are probably functionalities like opening mail windows, sending fleet invites and such by pressing a button in a browser. It would be nice if the client would just get an interface that you could connect to from an application on the same computer to execute those actions. Might be a good idea to even make them http post/get calls to actually enable browser websites to call those with simple cross domain ajax requests to localhost. (Pretty sure that would require the client to set that Access-Control-Allow-Origin header and you could like specifiy in the local clients settings it self a list of allowed websites, or pop up a message when a website that is not in the list connects for the first time. Ofc answer that first call without the calling website in the header, just if the user clicks yes, have the website added to the header the next time. Sure website will need to update the way they access data, but that should not be that hard. Well that would be my ideas to that matter :) From some one who just prepared to actually create a website for the ingame browser and on his research hit this forum entry.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 4236	Posted - 2016.01.13 09:12:01 - [49] - Quote Jack Tronic wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: If I get my way the IGB will get nuked next year. I hope to have a location service in CREST early next year so we can start the major transition away from it. looks at siggy's codebase needing major rewrite looks at need to also switch to crest for the location tracking looks at real life job to create a system handling 1 million cellular modem devices reporting data remotely in next few months cries I know the feels. :( If there is anything I can do to help please let me know! @CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

lost packet Alpha Flight Almost Broken 91	Posted - 2016.02.13 01:54:26 - [50] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: What do you use the IGB for? Couple of things regularly used:- Being able to visit a site, such as one containing alliance fits, click on a fit, click buy all. (lazy?) Being able to use [custom] sites for finding [alliance] contracts and setting up logistics contracts dScan tools which allow you to quickly click on the ship-type to pull up the description KOS checkers used in Provi, which allow you to click on a pilot/corp/alliance to quickly set standings, especially the ones that check multiple pilots in local.
Sugilite Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 29	Posted - 2016.02.15 05:38:27 - [51] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Max Kolonko wrote: Also i have only one monitor so its kind of touchy subject for me and all overlay browsers ive tried are s#?!t compared to igb. And no, im not going to rearrange my apartament to fit second monitor unless i see two monitors on eve online minimal system requirements page. What do you use the IGB for? http://i.imgur.com/r9i0SvV.png That's what I use most. I can't believe lost packet was the only other person to mention dscan. Oh god need the ability to share that information easily. Being able to show info on things/set destination/other stuff in the IGB is so good. Need. In my SS you can see you can click on that little info button to show info on any of those.
Captain Panther Polite-people-KGB United Fleet 6	Posted - 2016.02.15 16:59:30 - [52] - Quote And i just want to be able to easily open those cute GIFs in a game window during the gang roam >.< UFR - -¦-¦-+-¦-+ -Ç-¦-¦-Ç-â-é-+-+-¦-¦ -ƒ-¦-ƒ -¦-+-î-Å-+-ü-¦ United Fleet. -Æ-¦-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-¦-+-Ç -+-+-+-+-é-+-¦ -ü-+-+-é-¦-¦-é-ü-é-¦-â-Ä-ë-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-+-Ç-¦-¦-+-¦-+-+-Å -¦-+-Å -Ç-+-â-+-+-¦ -+-+ -+-+-â-ü-¦-¦-â -¦ -ü-+-ü-é-¦-¦-¦ -ä-+-+-é-¦ -¦-+-î-Å-+-ü-¦ :)
Laranell Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 0	Posted - 2016.02.23 21:31:06 - [53] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Amely Miles wrote: Removing the IGB in my opinion is a BAD MOVE on CCPs part since majority of people use it in Eve. Feel free to voice your opinion but saying things like this only hurts your case. When you say this it completely invalidates your case since the majority of users DON'T use the IGB. We have metrics on it, I know how many users open the IGB, how many pages are requested with the IGB, how many times the custom JavaScript hooks are used, etc. The single biggest use of the IGB is leaving it open and letting it refresh for sites like SIggy and Tripwire to track your location in wormholes. Even with that the majority of users do NOT use the IGB. Taking the less than majority and subtracting a substantial portion of that leaves the user base of the IGB at... well not that large at all. The rest of your points however are far more valid and being kept in mind. How do your metrics from when it was up to date compare to now? I would use it more when actually playing if I could watch videos and ****, but I guess that was never the intended use anyway. For a while I could just use a stay on top Chrome window, but the addon I was using died. I play triplemon with the client actually using all three. It was nice leaving browser open in an empty space on one side looking up fittings and other noob stuff. To be frank I more often used that stay on top for various EVE things because the IGB was garbage. I don't understand all the hate for the IGB. It's really a unique feature that has the chance to actually keep people in-game (even while being side-tracked) but seems to get poopood all day long. Is it really that much of a pain in the ass to just update it? I feel like a properly supported browser in-game means more content in-game. If you're not tabbed out of the game you're more likely to be a part of something going on. Is my thinking incorrect?
Dilagant Butterfly Effect The Company. 3	Posted - 2016.04.21 23:25:56 - [54] - Quote CCP, If you need some money to update the IGB, start a "Go Fund Me" and I'll give you some cash. If you want to know how much we love it, give us a survey. I don't get to chat with CSM members much, but I will do a survey.

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