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GTC sales abuse

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J Valkor	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:04:00 - [91] Originally by: Valan Now I understand why gank and non-constual PvP complaints have gone up. When a pirate blows up your faction ship paid for by RL cash through GTCs and then collects your loot. He has actually mugged you without any fear from the law. So 2 billion isk for a faction ship and a few good mods costs around $264 dollars at isk sellers. I blow it up and get a few hundred mill from it. If I use that to pay for my account through GTCs I'm actually saving RL money. So I've actually mugged you and saved money albeit not much as if I did it in the street. This is the best bit, the victim is happy and having fun! I'm taking money off him and he doesn't even mind. Oh my God! EVE IS THE BEST GAME EVER! (No sarcasm.)
Astorothe Ono-Sensai	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:37:00 - [92] Edited by: Astorothe on 17/01/2007 18:34:22 Originally by: Valan Originally by: Astorothe Edited by: Astorothe on 17/01/2007 16:54:39 How the heck do you expect me to buy my +5 implants without GTCs? cheeky grin I personally don't think this is a big deal - and have no problems with it. More power to you though, if you do. You do realise how little an increase that extra point makes when training a skill Forget to skill for an hour per year and you probably lose the advantage. (this is were some maths head comes along and proves it to be 1.58676 hours) I can understand buying a BPO to some extent but a full rack of +5s. That can disappear in a blink. In fact posting that is bad, a empire pk corp may just target you to ruin your day. Oh I was just being asinine - I dont have +5 imp's - I'd sooner spend the GTC-Isk on a nice ship or some hookers.
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:50:00 - [93] Ohh I want to say this, Why are you trying to make me play my game your way? If buying GTC sales is allowed ohhh well. that felt good. Now I can say there are many things in EVE that dont make sense. Some will be corrected today, some tomorrow and some may never be. The question is can you deal with it? New NPC NPC Market
Manipulator General	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:15:00 - [94] Edited by: Manipulator General on 17/01/2007 19:12:08 Originally by: Keira Skywatcher CCP need to look into this, it's outrageous to be honest. It minds its own business or it gets the hose. Jealousy 4tl
Gulldrengurinn	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:36:00 - [95] It doesnt matter how much you dislike or love the RMT market, the hard reality is it is ALWAYS a part of a competive game. Sure you can totally destroy the game by adding NO DROP to every item and do other restriction to about every aspect of the game. Atleast the GTC sales does help a lot of players along with insuring CCP a cut in the process. EULAs are there to protect the gaming companies, not the players.
Moghydin Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:20:00 - [96] Buying ISK from e-bay and buying ISK through GTC's is virtually the same. It's the same action with the same purpose - to get in-game advantage using RL currency. CCP allow the later because they can profit from it. If ppl can't see what's wrong with mass GTC selling, then they are beyond hope I think. The monopoly analogy that was brought earlier in this thread is right on the spot. In an ideal world, RL $$$ should have no influence on in-game success. But we live in the material world. So, ppl get themselves 2-nd, 3-rd, 4-rth and so on accounts to fund their fun activities easier. Here RL starts to influence the in-game world, but at least all those accounts have to be in game and to earn ISK by methods defined by game mechanics. Selling GTCs for ISK is totally different story. It's an out of game activity, that allows you to "buy" you advantage in game. Just look at it, ppl are selling much more, than is needed to finance their "fun" activities like PvP, new mission ship with cool fitting or something like that. Ppl are buying items of strategical importance - T2 BPOs with their RL money. 15 pages of GTC transactions are not just to buy a new battleship or a HAC after the old one was lost in PvP. If it's not cheating, then what it is? And to that beaten to death example of General Motors CEO who wants to play Eve, but don't have time to dedicate to it. You know, if you don't have time to dedicate to the game, then you should be worse off in game than those who do spend a lot of time playing. Yes, in an ideal world CEO should suck at Eve and semi-employed burger flipper should have an advantage exactly because he can spend 12h per day in Eve. But in our world ppl with too much RL money are sure that it can pave them the road anywhere, and CCP just allows them to legally have the ISK trainer for Eve.
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:34:00 - [97] Quote: Eve is all about ISK he spends his time working makeing RL money If any RL money is being made off this game I would hope that it is being reported to the proper financial agency in your area of the world that records taxable income...... because once it stops being "in game money" and it tranlslates over to "real world money" that becomes income...and fully taxable under your local tax regulations. You may laugh now, but I'd hate to be bent over the table over unreported income from a video game.
Vodka Neat Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:54:00 - [98] Another thing to consider is that the GTCs aren't at a fix price and can have a huge range. So people with 15 pages of orders might be selling high and then waiting till there is a lull and buying back GTCs and thus making a tidy in game profit. I was tempted myself to try this when I saw them dip down from 450 mil for 100 day to 320 mil range. -Why don't the NPC pilots have pods?-
Keira Skywatcher	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:29:00 - [99] There are people here - such as students, the unemployed etc - who consider their Eve subscription as a luxury. Let's say a bunch of students, a bit short on cash who are friends in RL, formed a PVP corp and want make their mark in Eve. But look - a corp just declared war on them! This corp, at equal numbers, is funded by a ridiculous amount of GTC sales. So they bring out the faction-fitted Navy Ravens without even breaking a sweat and with no fear of loss (plenty more ISK where that came from). It's called ADVANTAGE. A couple of GTC sales per-character or per-account won't make really that much of a difference; however, when you are making billions spamming the sell forums with GTCs using your RL income, you potentially just bought an i-win ticket with absolutely no in-game effort. Where's the level playing field here? It's unfair, end of story. It's a game mechanic that begs for restrictions. Keira
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:22:00 - [100] 1. The monopoly analogy is bogus. No more isk is being generated by GTC sales. ISK is merely being redistributed. Someone suggested very early in the thread that GTC sales devalue isk. Rubbish. Only if new isk was being created would that happen. It isn't. 2. I doubt Zeroh spends much, if any, RL cash on EVE. I'd imagine he, as has been suggested further up this page, is a GTC reseller. He plays the GTC market in the same way people play the market in EVE. 3. I find buying isk in any fashion distasteful, but as a student I have bought a GTC with isk to keep my subscription alive when money was tight. I suppose that makes me a hypocrite, but I wanted to play and couldn't afford to pay. As a player who flys cheap ships and kills expensive ones, I know that isk only makes a real difference at Outpost/Nyx level. Most of the people buying themselves expensive kit with RL cash lose it quite quickly, because they haven't learned how to survive with cheap kit. Our alliance has nothing to do with GTC sales. Zeroh is only a new recruit into our ranks, and as you will see in the linked thread has been selling GTCs far longer than he has been with us. Do a little research. Our alliance isn't rich by any means. I could post how much is in our corp wallet right now but I won't. Our members are generally richer than the corporation (due to being 3+year 30million sp+ players, not through any GTC-related shenanigans), and our CEO is very well known in the EVE financial community. _____________________________________________

mechtech	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:42:00 - [101] Ive got no problem with it, for 2 reasons that most people don't realize. 1) CCP makes money 2) The isk is "clean". People buying GTCs with isk are not macrominers, they are rich eve players paying for accounts with isk. You can't resell GTCs easily (you don't know if they work) so macrominers can't make any real profit from GTC buying, they still have to use ebay. So its isk selling that doesn't promote gameplay practices that hurt the common eve player (like macro ratters and miners).
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.18 07:06:00 - [102] Edited by: subvert on 18/01/2007 07:03:46 Originally by: SN3263827 1. The monopoly analogy is bogus. no its not. you spend cash on GTC and you can buy T2 BPOs off people. you can buy an i-win with gtc. you can win corp wars with gtc. with gtc you never have to do anything to make isk. an alliance with lots of gtc selling is unstoppable. unlimited ISK. unlimited ships. its the god-mode of eve
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2007.01.18 07:38:00 - [103] Having unlimited isk won't help you win a war or make you better in PVP, just means by collecting isk in this way, each ship loss is much more painful. Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:24:00 - [104] Originally by: Gone'Postal Having unlimited isk won't help you win a war or make you better in PVP, just means by collecting isk in this way, each ship loss is much more painful. Ya it will. Unlimited ships. T2 monopoly. You cant fight an enemy with unlimited ISK. The way to win EVE is through GTCs
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:35:00 - [105] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gone'Postal Having unlimited isk won't help you win a war or make you better in PVP, just means by collecting isk in this way, each ship loss is much more painful. Ya it will. Unlimited ships. T2 monopoly. You cant fight an enemy with unlimited ISK. The way to win EVE is through GTCs So by having unlimited ingame money, there will to fight, Logistics, members, fleet Experiance, everything that goes with a war in eve is automaticly givin to you ? ISK helps in a war, not saying it don't but it's not the be all and end all of war in eve. (just my view on it) Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to.
KHEN Gallente New Horizons	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:51:00 - [106] FYI : Link : GTC sales are allowed by CCP, EVE is CCP property, period And keep in mind that nowadays, even 100 Bil (around 13 or 14000$ spent in GTC) are not much in EVE
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:11:00 - [107] Originally by: Gone'Postal So by having unlimited ingame money, there will to fight, Logistics, members, fleet Experiance, everything that goes with a war in eve is automaticly givin to you ? yes. you can throw isk at anything and win
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:18:00 - [108] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gone'Postal So by having unlimited ingame money, there will to fight, Logistics, members, fleet Experiance, everything that goes with a war in eve is automaticly givin to you ? yes. you can throw isk at anything and win Ah yes money = power... 100 man alliance can win vs any alliance or corp in eve just as long as the 100 men can sell GTC. maybe you think having a nice isk ballance is winning eve. Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:33:00 - [109] Originally by: Gone'Postal Ah yes money = power... 100 man alliance can win vs any alliance or corp in eve just as long as the 100 men can sell GTC. yes
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:37:00 - [110] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gone'Postal Ah yes money = power... 100 man alliance can win vs any alliance or corp in eve just as long as the 100 men can sell GTC. yes Yeah ok then.... Reminder to ASCN.. you should have sold more GTC's guys you could have won! Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to.

Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:41:00 - [111] Originally by: Gone'Postal Yeah ok then.... Reminder to ASCN.. you should have sold more GTC's guys you could have won! that is correct
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:22:00 - [112] Edited by: Forum Joe on 19/01/2007 17:19:20 Originally by: NiBk Originally by: Irrilian I was playing Monopoly earlier today. I wasn't having much luck so during a break I went out and bought another box. After the return from the break the game went a lot better, whenever I needed more cash I just reached into the other box and used its cash. Counting out notes grew a bit tiresome after a while, so I grabbed a handful of hotels and location cards too. I like Monopoly now. Worst Analogy Ever. It's a variation of one of the main anti-buffbots analogy used (usually the game used is chess). I've known it for years. It's very solid as you can't counter it on it's base, but only by arguing on how it directly applies in the game the discussion is about. Oh, but excuse me! NiBk the God has spoken! His omniscious knowledge has been revealed to us! All bow before NiBk who brings justice and enlightment to man, converts water into wine, multiplies the strawberries, and fertilizes the c-ockroaches...
Valan	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:27:00 - [113] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gone'Postal Ah yes money = power... 100 man alliance can win vs any alliance or corp in eve just as long as the 100 men can sell GTC. yes Hasn't RA proven that by disappearing off the map but managing to hang on and remerge with the ISK gained off farming complexes? /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Forum Joe	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:43:00 - [114] Originally by: SN3263827 1. The monopoly analogy is bogus. Well, let's see. Quote: No more isk is being generated by GTC sales. ISK is merely being redistributed. Someone suggested very early in the thread that GTC sales devalue isk. Rubbish. Only if new isk was being created would that happen. It isn't. Of course GTC's ISK do not come from thin air, their latent sources do but it's only by player time that they become ISK. ISK devaluation because of GTCs? I must admit I don't know about this problem. Like you said, in-game it's only some ISK changing owner. Someone losses them, someone gains them. However, the problem about purchasing of in-game currencies with IRL cash is not about where those ISKs come from, it's about why they change owner. You argue about this monopoly analogy because in it player A "buys another box". Basically you say that there is "no other box", you analyze on a global scale. Sadly, it's only rethorical : just like in the analogy player A isn't playing versus all monopoly players on earth, in EvE it's about a modification of the existing forces in the local scale (ie : a war, an auction for a BPO etc...). There are reasons perfectly legit about why a side can mobilize more ressources than the other : mining, trading, NPCing, killing, ransomming, borrowing, begging, even scamming is in line with the game mechanics. All of those happen in-game. It's about in-game actions of players or relations between players. "Players". People who play. A game. Besides subscription cost, I do not think the original EvE box advertised EvE as being a game in wich your IRL cash plays a role in the gaming rules.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:02:00 - [115] While I agree with the notion that buying your way ahead in EVE is cheating (and that includes GTC sales CCP, try not to be so hypocritical about it), it has about the same influence on the game's economy and balance as randomness. The effects on EVE of someone buying a GTC is about the same as that of someone getting a DG Invulnerability Field from an NPC. EVE contains much more harmful (in the same way) features, for example the T2 BPO lottery and lag in fleet fights...
Removal Tool Flashman Services Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:12:00 - [116] To all those explaining why buying ISK is wrong: I completely agree but you are essentialy trying to teach ethics to sociopaths. If you need to have right VS wrong explained, and are willing to do whatever you can get away with, condoned or not, you have some growing up to do. There used to be an ideal that said "it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game". That was when people still had a sense of ethics and honor. But when enough of society feels that Ideals and ethics are for suckers, then you have what we have now. I mean FFS we have people agruing that it's not fair that someone who puts more time into the game should therefore gain an advantage. Of course it's fair, it could not be MORE fair. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b157/blacklabelsar/BoSSiggyFinal.jpg Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo Fight with your heart and balls!
BubbaZanetti	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:22:00 - [117] Originally by: Forum Joe Of course GTC's ISK do not come from thin air, their latent sources do but it's only by player time that they become ISK. ISK can be made by spending time in the game? That's ludicrously unfair. People who have more freetime than me are getting a huge advantage over me, then. That's not right. Real life circumstances should not affect the in game experience in any way. I demand that everyone immediately be limited to only being able to log on for about four or five hours per week maximum.
Frug SYOID Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:25:00 - [118] Maybe buying ISK is wrong, but people blow it out of proportion. a) ISK is not everything, and people should stop thinking like it is. b) I like the idea that I can pay to play with ISK. c) He spends money for isk and I'll spend ISK for money. According to how people here think, he's winning and I'm losing. Hah. Right. - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:26:00 - [119] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gone'Postal Having unlimited isk won't help you win a war or make you better in PVP, just means by collecting isk in this way, each ship loss is much more painful. Ya it will. Unlimited ships. T2 monopoly. You cant fight an enemy with unlimited ISK. The way to win EVE is through GTCs I keep seeing things like this. "You can't win against an enemy with unlimited ISK.." Question for everyone that believes this: Did ASCN lose the war because they ran out of ISK? ---------- We've all heard that a million monkeys typing will eventually create something intelligent. Thanks to message forums we know that isn't true.
Anonymous Coward Gallente Panopticon Citadel	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:35:00 - [120] Originally by: Removal Tool To all those explaining why buying ISK is wrong: I completely agree but you are essentialy trying to teach ethics to sociopaths. Of course, anyone that could possibly disagree with you simply must be a sociopath. There's no other explanation... speaking of no explanation, your post was pretty lacking in backing up this utterly ridiculous statement. GTC sales are no different than owning multiple accounts. RL money still gives you an advantage in Eve (and, frankly, pretty much everything) even if they didn't exist.



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