Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
83
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 02:55:35 -
[31] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Paul Pohl wrote:If there is a problem, it is equating skill points to actual player skill.... speeding up the first does not speed up the latter Indeed. Skill acquired in learning the game doesn't change.. It merely adjusts the background stats which give the vets an advantage. I get that they spent the time into the game and I'm not trying to remove that.. I just think speeding up the bar for new players is healthy for the game as a whole.
Oh grow up....
Sure a vet... (god I hate that term)... can pop you before you target them (or whatever)... big deal.... pay for the insurance and have a reserve stock of PVE fittings...
What you are missing is that there are plenty of places where you can go, and make money, and have fun, and train skills, and do stuff, that have precisely naff all to do with 'vets' - the skill is in finding them - and staying away from 'vet' corps looking to help you.
All your moan does is to allow 'vets' to train their alts faster, which in turn compounds the supposed misery that underlies the meme of your complaint.
Let genuine newbs understand the potential difference between capacitor III and capacitor IV - and enjoy the complaints of the 'vets' who already know the difference and are grinding their teeth that despite having sixteen screens running in thei command bunker under the stairs, they are still a no-body in their corps, making little or no ISK, and moronically saluting whenever the CEO deigns to announce they are going impoverish themself for the greater good., in this or that, attempt to define the question of 'why you should hold sov'...
So no.... this will not bring in new players... is useful for 'vets' and their alts... and is completely contradictory to the nature of the game , as it would speed up newbs getting into battleships.... and 'vet' alts shooting them down with frigates and cruisers.... as they transition form the godlike status of level 4 missions to low-sec |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7004
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 02:59:59 -
[32] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Sure the boosters I got when I joined were cool. I just don't think it is enough.
And exactly the kind of gamer this game doesn't need is the kind that never will think it's fast enough.
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:You aren't helping to convince me of anything but the elitist want their special sandbox to shrink until it dies.
And you aren't making any kind of counterpoint by just calling people elitist. The game has existed for more than a decade, longer than WoW, on a small and slowly growing userbase that continued to grow when the game was even more 'elite' (read: harder and slower to get into) than it is now. What makes you think it's going to shrink until it dies? What makes you think anyone here wants that? That is an unqualified assertion that you're going to have to elaborate on, or we can dismiss this petty pejorative for what it is: a tantrum because you're not getting what you want.
Ever consider that this game might not be good for you, or that you might not be good for this game? If you want instant gratification, there are a tonne of first-person shooters and even RPGs out there that will provide it. Hell, I've been playing Fallout 4 and just using console commands to get myself all the best weapons and power armor right from the word go, not to mention giving myself instant level 50 and a few other bits and pieces. It's a more casual game, where instant gratification is an option you have.
EVE is not, and never should be.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
84
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 03:02:06 -
[33] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:I can personally attest, we're beset by the Entitled By Birth crowd.
Don't make me WAIT! I want it NOW!!
No...
Don't make me LEARN (by experience), I already know... and if you can program me to always be 0.01 in the market I'll be a trader too... |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3736
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 03:04:02 -
[34] - Quote
It's been my general experience that SP requirements are synonymous with lazy leadership and a community that doesn't like helping its members. It's dumb too since a 150 million SP player who has spent his entire life in the game shooting mission rats probably knows less about the game than a 2 million SP player who joined pandemic horde or became a CODE. agent after getting his venture ganked.
Restrictions or behaviours that are the result of player action aren't necessarily actually related to the inherent nature of the game.
|
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2809
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 03:08:13 -
[35] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:If this is true why do so many corps have huge SP requirements? To my this seems to illustrate the fact these points are very important because if it was simply knowledge they could teach that. One of the biggest reasons is spies. Spies can masquerade as new players, with fresh accounts. Eventually, successful spying will get them caught and blacklisted, and they must recycle the account and start over. This becomes prohibitively difficult if they must train 2 million SP or more just to get into the corp/alliance they want to spy on, only to get caught within a few weeks of spying.
One of the unfortunate aspects to being new is that most of your offers will come from weaker groups who are desperate for new pilots. You'll get good experience to harden you up, but it'll be with people who lose a lot of fights, and you'll be tossed around nullsec a lot. Just hang in there, with a bit of experience under your belt, you'll find yourself able to join a strong group in no time. Or perhaps you'll be the driving force that picks up your crap corp out of the ashes and makes it great--then you're a rookie in a high position of corp leadership. You'll have great offers come in from powerful corps and you might find yourself turning them down.
I'm not exaggerating, this stuff happens all the time. All you need is a will to go out there and find out what happens, and stick with it. You just need to take all those ideas about how a game should be and let them go.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
3739
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 03:15:18 -
[36] - Quote
Just for the love of crap never join a highsec group that's super eager to get new players for no apparent reason. I don't even understand why those groups want those new players. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7005
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 03:15:39 -
[37] - Quote
Actually, I tend to find SP requirements for any reason to be quite redundant. Anyone can buy a toon off the market and even a 150mil SP character could be purchased by a new player who has no idea what they're doing.
Additionally, out of that 150mil SP, only 5-10 mil of it MIGHT apply to any given ship in the game, capping one's 'advantages' in that ship. Anyone else who's been playing for years with their SP maxed in the same ship and a lot of PVP experience is going to wipe the floor with that person without batting an eyelid.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7005
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 03:16:28 -
[38] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Just for the love of crap never join a highsec group that's super eager to get new players for no apparent reason. I don't even understand why those groups want those new players.
Taxes. Social recognition as a 'leader'. Cannon fodder. There are a lot of reasons.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
987
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 03:59:10 -
[39] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Also, the gap you're worried about doesn't actually exist. For a second I thought we were talking about feminism. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9672
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 04:31:25 -
[40] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I've spent the last few weeks playing Fallout 4 and despite loving the game, it lost a lot of its heart and soul when the dialogue wheel was introduced and the karma system removed. The karma system never worked and I don't mind the dumbed down dialogue system too much. What's killing me (literally) is that you can't play as a total fukwad. Half the NPCs don't even acknowledge you shooting them and the other half murder you without taking the least bit of damage. I want to kill everyone. Children, NPC and quest specific characters alike. Just like the good old days of FO3.
So lame.
As for the topic at hand. I'd have no problem with an increased skill training speed. It's kind of like in real life when you are making the same money year after year but the price of everything keeps rising. Same with this game. Replace inflation with continually adding new skills and your static wage with the never increasing skill speed.
It wouldn't hurt the game to increase it slightly, in my opinion.
For everyone, though. The nublets just got that large boost to starting SP, so they're fine.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
|
Memphis Baas
824
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 04:52:06 -
[41] - Quote
Issue 1: New players don't have many skill points.
Issue 2: New players don't have enough ISK to afford the bigger ships.
Issue 3: Even with access to bigger ships, new players don't have the game knowledge to PVP vs. the veterans (as demonstrated when CCP gave everyone 0-skill cruisers a few Christmases ago).
Issue 4: There is no differentiation between a true newbie creating a new character (and receiving a bunch of stuff), and a veteran creating a new character (to receive the same stuff).
It's been done in the past. Free skillpoints means we just create ready-to-go suicide gank alts to kill you, the more skillpoints the bigger the ships we can gank you with. Free ISK means we just accumulate it all in the wallet, and since now everyone has lots of ISK, prices increase for everything (it's like printing money - money are worth less, things cost more).
|
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6566
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 04:54:41 -
[42] - Quote
The system is being improved 'soon' & everyone will gain SP at the same rate. Apart from that I don't agree with a 3x SP accumulation speed because older players like me will just abuse the hell out of it.
This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
|
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7006
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 05:33:12 -
[43] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I've spent the last few weeks playing Fallout 4 and despite loving the game, it lost a lot of its heart and soul when the dialogue wheel was introduced and the karma system removed. The karma system never worked and I don't mind the dumbed down dialogue system too much. What's killing me (literally) is that you can't play as a total fukwad. Half the NPCs don't even acknowledge you shooting them and the other half murder you without taking the least bit of damage. I want to kill everyone. Children, NPCs, companions and quest specific characters alike. Just like the good old days of FO3.
The whole idea of 'essential' NPCs is what tells me Fallout is essentially finished with this title. F4 signifies the decline of the series if they intend to make more. The thought of anything being unkillable in this game makes me squirm, but it's still 'Fallout' enough to enjoy it. It is on its way out though. I don't think they'll make another Fallout though, not without a huge engine overhaul, and then it will probably just be another linear QTE fest like every other 'AAA' release that all too easily amuses the mindless masses.
Off topic, I know, but I had to say as much. I've been there since the original was little more than a lonely box on a shelf that everyone walked past, an underrated abstract that few even knew existed. I knew with F3, though, when it started going into FPS realms, that it wouldn't have many more titles before it dies out. Vegas was surprisingly good, but still not truly Fallout as far as I'm concerned.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1776
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 05:48:40 -
[44] - Quote
Any system that allows vet characters to create instant high SP alts while suckering new players into investing lots of SP into useless things like battleships they are not ready to fly and will just lose anyway is not a good thing.
Aside from which dumbing down to suck in "churn" players wanting to instantly level and try some new shiney toys may seem a cunning way to increase subs to the degreed marketing types but it is invariably a massive fail - just look at 4th Ed D&D for an example. |
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
86
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:02:43 -
[45] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Issue 1: New players don't have many skill points.
Issue 2: New players don't have enough ISK to afford the bigger ships.
Issue 3: Even with access to bigger ships, new players don't have the game knowledge to PVP vs. the veterans (as demonstrated when CCP gave everyone 0-skill cruisers a few Christmases ago).
Issue 4: There is no differentiation between a true newbie creating a new character (and receiving a bunch of stuff), and a veteran creating a new character (to receive the same stuff).
It's been done in the past. Free skillpoints means we just create ready-to-go suicide gank alts to kill you, the more skillpoints the bigger the ships we can gank you with. Free ISK means we just accumulate it all in the wallet, and since now everyone has lots of ISK, prices increase for everything (it's like printing money - money are worth less, things cost more).
And there is the issue of a true newbie not knowing what it is they should be training to fit their playstyle
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1887
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:11:09 -
[46] - Quote
Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28177
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:29:44 -
[47] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim. And they'd be helped with if the game didn't start with mining and running missions...
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2145
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:34:07 -
[48] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim. And they'd be helped with if the game didn't start with mining and running missions...
thats the problem. as soon as you start the game you are pretty much forced into mining or missions, no wonder people quit the game when they are forced into the 2 most boring activities in the game
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1889
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:35:32 -
[49] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim. And they'd be helped with if the game didn't start with mining and running missions... thats the problem. as soon as you start the game you are pretty much forced into mining or missions, no wonder people quit the game when they are forced into the 2 most boring activities in the game
No, you're not. It's just the two most obvious things to do, especially to people who are used to grind MMO's. But it certainly isn't the only thing to do. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2145
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 11:43:18 -
[50] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Newbies are not helped with skill points, they are not helped with isk, they're not helped with hand holding. They're helped by giving them a proper tutorial that explains stuff properly, a long one, where this all is explained. And beyond that they're help with "stop being a giant massive pussy" attitude from both other players as the game. Sink or swim. And they'd be helped with if the game didn't start with mining and running missions... thats the problem. as soon as you start the game you are pretty much forced into mining or missions, no wonder people quit the game when they are forced into the 2 most boring activities in the game No, you're not. It's just the two most obvious things to do, especially to people who are used to grind MMO's. But it certainly isn't the only thing to do.
i wasn't shown anything pvp related in tutorials (the new system may have changed), nothing about fitting ships, what scrams and points do, counter measures, different space and what sort of precautions you should take when traveling there.
I was use to the mmo grind and would avoid it by using rl money as my income and cant remember being shown anything other than missions and mining
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
|
Vivias Xelnoa
Council of Economic Advisors Bitter Vets n Noobs
1
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 13:52:38 -
[51] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Issue 1: New players don't have many skill points.
Issue 2: New players don't have enough ISK to afford the bigger ships.
Issue 3: Even with access to bigger ships, new players don't have the game knowledge to PVP vs. the veterans (as demonstrated when CCP gave everyone 0-skill cruisers a few Christmases ago).
Issue 4: There is no differentiation between a true newbie creating a new character (and receiving a bunch of stuff), and a veteran creating a new character (to receive the same stuff).
It's been done in the past. Free skillpoints means we just create ready-to-go suicide gank alts to kill you, the more skillpoints the bigger the ships we can gank you with. Free ISK means we just accumulate it all in the wallet, and since now everyone has lots of ISK, prices increase for everything (it's like printing money - money are worth less, things cost more).
Best response I've seen to it. From that vantage point I can understand why a system like that would be more of a burden then a blessing. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2148
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 13:54:06 -
[52] - Quote
just forget about sp and enjoy learning the game
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28193
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 13:56:20 -
[53] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:just forget about sp and enjoy learning the game Exactly.
Some people are so stuck in believing their egos matter, it's ruining the game for them.
Waahwaaah can't compete, too slow, too hard, waahwaah
If people weren't such babies nowadays we wouldn't have this mess.
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2150
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:10:44 -
[54] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Lan Wang wrote:just forget about sp and enjoy learning the game Exactly. Some people are so stuck in believing their egos matter, it's ruining the game for them. Waahwaaah can't compete, too slow, too hard, waahwaah If people weren't such babies nowadays we wouldn't have this mess.
i think these new players seem to think that they should be able to kill the 10+ year old player on day 1, if they cant then its inbalanced, thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Leeluvv
Polarized
52
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:21:37 -
[55] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote: If this is true why do so many corps have huge SP requirements? To my this seems to illustrate the fact these points are very important because if it was simply knowledge they could teach that.
The SP requirement is often more about experience than actual skills.
|
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2152
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:26:41 -
[56] - Quote
Leeluvv wrote:Vivias Xelnoa wrote: If this is true why do so many corps have huge SP requirements? To my this seems to illustrate the fact these points are very important because if it was simply knowledge they could teach that.
The SP requirement is often more about experience than actual skills.
Its actually quite easy to get into a corp if you are below the "requirement" just show a little enthusiasm and willingness to learn, unless you are going into a wormhole then the sp requirement is usually pretty legit as they do require pretty high skills for t3's and scanning etc.
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
|
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28205
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:28:22 -
[57] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Lan Wang wrote:just forget about sp and enjoy learning the game Exactly. Some people are so stuck in believing their egos matter, it's ruining the game for them. Waahwaaah can't compete, too slow, too hard, waahwaah If people weren't such babies nowadays we wouldn't have this mess. i think these new players seem to think that they should be able to kill the 10+ year old player on day 1, if they cant then its inbalanced, thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works Self esteem issues. People raised and educated by marketing and neuroscience.
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
|
Leeluvv
Polarized
52
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:31:05 -
[58] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:
i think these new players seem to think that they should be able to kill the 10+ year old player on day 1, if they cant then its inbalanced, thats not how this works, thats not how any of this works
I think it's simpler than that. They forget that Eve is really is a MMO and that they need to learn to play as a team. They are often too busy thinking as an individual and what they 'want', instead of asking how they can help their team succeed. T1 frigate tackle/scout is often better than a vet, as you may want the high SP char in a specialist ship, such as a recon, command ship or logistics, etc. |
Otso Bakarti
Filial Pariahs
563
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:44:11 -
[59] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:I've spent the last few weeks playing Fallout 4 and despite loving the game, it lost a lot of its heart and soul when the dialogue wheel was introduced and the karma system removed. The karma system never worked and I don't mind the dumbed down dialogue system too much. What's killing me (literally) is that you can't play as a total fukwad. Half the NPCs don't even acknowledge you shooting them and the other half murder you without taking the least bit of damage. I want to kill everyone. Children, NPCs, companions and quest specific characters alike. Just like the good old days of FO3. So lame. As for the topic at hand. I'd have no problem with an increased skill training speed. It's kind of like in real life when you are making the same money year after year but the price of everything keeps rising. Same with this game. Replace inflation with continually adding new skills and your static wage with the never increasing skill speed. It wouldn't hurt the game to increase it slightly, in my opinion. For everyone, though. The nublets just got that large boost to starting SP, so they're fine. Mr Epeen This contradicts your signature just a tad. And I quote
"There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'. Congratulations, dumbass!"
There just isn't anything that can be said!
|
Jade Blackwind
757
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 14:45:59 -
[60] - Quote
Skill points somewhat matter until maybe 5-8 million SP, depends on what you aim to achieve, and progressively less and less after that.
Ultimately Eve is not about points. It's about the player's understanding of the game and the meta-game (which is often is more important than the game) and, unfortunately, the player's social skills.
Once, I created a fresh alt and made a few very good posts with it. The said alt then got "accepted" in a certain subset of the community and soon was literally bombarded with recruitment offers from several visible alliances. The security checks ultimately revealed that she was an alt, so it went nowhere, but if she were a true newbie, she would have a smorgasbord of choices about which famous player organization to join. All that because of a single forum thread. True story.
That character had like no skill points at all. Those who think that they need ship x or module x to enjoy the game are doing it horribly wrong.
(There is a gap between certain groups of players and the rest, but it isn't skill point related.) |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |