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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Miles Winter
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
12
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:03:08 -
[151] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Also, the gap you're worried about doesn't actually exist.
Paul Pohl wrote:If there is a problem, it is equating skill points to actual player skill.... speeding up the first does not speed up the latter
A serious mechanical advantage absolutely exists until a new player has several million skillpoints - I'd argue around 6-12 months of gametime and at least 3 months, assuming they pick the right skills, which they won't.
Yes, anyone can easily and quickly learn the basics of PvP, and with a month or two in PvP oriented corps they could even get pretty good at it, but that doesn't overcome the intrinsic advantage of a vet being able to fit a damage control II while noobs are stuck with meta variants or basic damage control I's.
The dps and ehp difference between a 3 month old player and a veteran player could be nearly double - or more - just based on what their skills let them fit on their ships. It's enough that even in situations where Frigate A SHOULD have a clear advantage against Frigate B, the difference coming from those fittings, and thus ship capability, allows B to defeat A regardless.
Player skill is absolutely important - moreso than skillpoints, but to say skillpoints don't matter at all - that's hogwash.
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Vivias Xelnoa
Council of Economic Advisors Bitter Vets n Noobs
3
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:05:39 -
[152] - Quote
Made another post looking for a corp and pretty much everyone who has commented thus far as told me that you are simply too weak to do anything below 2 mil SP if you want to go to nul space even with an established group. Seems like the Eve community is split on this as some claim that SP doesn't matter while another group stipulates the exact opposite. While I admit an acceleration for new players might be abused by older players that doesn't mean CCP cannot invest a way to prevent the worst of it. CCP seems smart enough to find a way to avoid the few bad apples which prevent a new audience from joining Eve as by the looks of it the population has been declining in the last few months. Surely you realize that in order for your game to thrive and grow it needs to change? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26623
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:24:06 -
[153] - Quote
Miles Winter wrote:Yes, anyone can easily and quickly learn the basics of PvP, and with a month or two in PvP oriented corps they could even get pretty good at it, but that doesn't overcome the intrinsic advantage of a vet being able to fit a damage control II while noobs are stuck with meta variants or basic damage control I's. That's true in terms of paper stats, but that's pretty much the point: paper stats are not the reality and they can trivially be subverted in roughly a bajillion different ways GÇö that's where the whole GÇ£learn the basics of PvPGÇ¥ comes in. Learning what to attack with what (and when) and how to overcome the increasingly marginal improvements that the exponentially longer training times provide.
Quote:The dps, targeting range, optimal+falloff, and ehp difference between a 3 month old player and a veteran player could be nearly double - or more - just based on what their skills let them fit on their ships. You'd be surprised. For a regular combat ship, the difference is often less than a 50% advantage (and that's assuming the veteran has maxed everything out, which is a) far from guaranteed, and b) not a good use of his training time). But more than that, all that assumes that the new player is being stupid: that he is trying to take on the veteran in a 1:1 matched head-on competition.
It takes a year and a half to completely (and, granted, stupidly) max out a T1 cruiser. It takes 70 days to do an GÇ£all IVGÇ¥ version of the same ship and end up with ~60% the DPS and 80% the tank, and even that assumes that the 70 days aren't spent all that intelligently.
Quote:It's enough that even in situations where Frigate A SHOULD have a clear advantage against Frigate B, the difference coming from those fittings, and thus ship capability, allows B to defeat A regardless. The assumption here is that frigate A is the same as frigate B, because if not, there is nothing to suggest that such an advantage will exist or that B will have such an easy victory.
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:While I admit an acceleration for new players might be abused by older players that doesn't mean CCP cannot invest a way to prevent the worst of it. That's pretty much exactly what it means. Anything that would benefit a new player will inherently benefit older players more. You are still stuck at this idea that acceleration is somehow needed for new players, but you have yet to offer anything to back this up, much less to link it to some hypothetical wider audience.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42175
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:26:47 -
[154] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Made another post looking for a corp and pretty much everyone who has commented thus far as told me that you are simply too weak to do anything below 2 mil SP if you want to go to nul space even with an established group. Seems like the Eve community is split on this as some claim that SP doesn't matter while another group stipulates the exact opposite. While I admit an acceleration for new players might be abused by older players that doesn't mean CCP cannot invest a way to prevent the worst of it. CCP seems smart enough to find a way to avoid the few bad apples which prevent a new audience from joining Eve as by the looks of it the population has been declining in the last few months. Surely you realize that in order for your game to thrive and grow it needs to change? There are Corps out there that don't want to train new players, which is perfectly fine for them.
There are a lot more that will and some great nullsec Corps that focus on that very thing.
Join Pandemic Horde and see how well organised they are and supportive of new players. You'll be in nullsec in no time, involved in pvp or PvE with experienced support around to help you and plenty of other new players to learn alongside.
As to the game declining, there's a whole other long thread with competing opinions as to why. Recent change of the game might also be the cause of the decline. Who knows? The only thing certain is that the game has always been changing since it began and there is no simple solution of "change the game and numbers will increase".
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Arkady Romanov
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
632
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:29:09 -
[155] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Made another post looking for a corp and pretty much everyone who has commented thus far as told me that you are simply too weak to do anything below 2 mil SP if you want to go to nul space even with an established group. Seems like the Eve community is split on this as some claim that SP doesn't matter while another group stipulates the exact opposite. While I admit an acceleration for new players might be abused by older players that doesn't mean CCP cannot invest a way to prevent the worst of it. CCP seems smart enough to find a way to avoid the few bad apples which prevent a new audience from joining Eve as by the looks of it the population has been declining in the last few months. Surely you realize that in order for your game to thrive and grow it needs to change?
Did you somehow miss Karmafleet and Pandemic Horde?
Whole Squid: Get Inked.
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Vivias Xelnoa
Council of Economic Advisors Bitter Vets n Noobs
3
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:34:14 -
[156] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Made another post looking for a corp and pretty much everyone who has commented thus far as told me that you are simply too weak to do anything below 2 mil SP if you want to go to nul space even with an established group. Seems like the Eve community is split on this as some claim that SP doesn't matter while another group stipulates the exact opposite. While I admit an acceleration for new players might be abused by older players that doesn't mean CCP cannot invest a way to prevent the worst of it. CCP seems smart enough to find a way to avoid the few bad apples which prevent a new audience from joining Eve as by the looks of it the population has been declining in the last few months. Surely you realize that in order for your game to thrive and grow it needs to change? There are Corps out there that don't want to train new players, which is perfectly fine for them. There are a lot more that will and some great nullsec Corps that focus on that very thing. Join Pandemic Horde and see how well organised they are and supportive of new players. You'll be in nullsec in no time, involved in pvp or PvE with experienced support around to help you and plenty of other new players to learn alongside. As to the game declining, there's a whole other long thread with competing opinions as to why. Recent change of the game might also be the cause of the decline. Who knows? The only thing certain is that the game has always been changing since it began and there is no simple solution of "change the game and numbers will increase".
Appreciate your comments. I've been enjoying Eve and plan to try to stick it out at least 6 months to see where I can go with it. By then SC might be further along in Alpha as they seem to making pretty solid progress recently.
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Vivias Xelnoa
Council of Economic Advisors Bitter Vets n Noobs
3
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:35:01 -
[157] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Made another post looking for a corp and pretty much everyone who has commented thus far as told me that you are simply too weak to do anything below 2 mil SP if you want to go to nul space even with an established group. Seems like the Eve community is split on this as some claim that SP doesn't matter while another group stipulates the exact opposite. While I admit an acceleration for new players might be abused by older players that doesn't mean CCP cannot invest a way to prevent the worst of it. CCP seems smart enough to find a way to avoid the few bad apples which prevent a new audience from joining Eve as by the looks of it the population has been declining in the last few months. Surely you realize that in order for your game to thrive and grow it needs to change? Did you somehow miss Karmafleet and Pandemic Horde?
I'm looking and posting. I don't know the ins and outs of the big corps. I take it those are two you suggest looking into? |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42175
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:37:49 -
[158] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Arkady Romanov wrote:Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Made another post looking for a corp and pretty much everyone who has commented thus far as told me that you are simply too weak to do anything below 2 mil SP if you want to go to nul space even with an established group. Seems like the Eve community is split on this as some claim that SP doesn't matter while another group stipulates the exact opposite. While I admit an acceleration for new players might be abused by older players that doesn't mean CCP cannot invest a way to prevent the worst of it. CCP seems smart enough to find a way to avoid the few bad apples which prevent a new audience from joining Eve as by the looks of it the population has been declining in the last few months. Surely you realize that in order for your game to thrive and grow it needs to change? Did you somehow miss Karmafleet and Pandemic Horde? I'm looking and posting. I don't know the ins and outs of the big corps. I take it those are two you suggest looking into? Both have the backing/support of major Alliances:
Karmafleet: Goonswarm Pandemic Horde: Pandemic Legion and Waffles
They are both good choices for new players and provide the fun that Brave used to provide a couple of years ago.
Skillplans, cheap ships, mentoring programs, regular organised activities, members in all timezones, forums, team speak/mumble, slack and irc servers, etc., etc., etc. You can't go wrong joining either one.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Arkady Romanov
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
632
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:41:37 -
[159] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:
I'm looking and posting. I don't know the ins and outs of the big corps. I take it those are two you suggest looking into?
I can't speak for Pandemic Horde's quality since I'm not in that alliance, but I imagine it's at least as good as Karmafleet.
Regarding Karmafleet:
It is a newbie friendly corp backed by (arguably) the most successful alliance in the game. You will have opportunities to participate in basically any activity you can imagine. You will have access to learning resources and help from mentors basically 24/7. You will have access to near infinite wealth and access to those who can teach you how to make it.
Honestly there's never been a time where a new player has had easier access to the best resources. GSF invests in newbies, but generally has stuck to investing in newbies of our own external forum community only. Now it's basically a free for all for anyone who plunges in and makes an effort.
Whole Squid: Get Inked.
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Vivias Xelnoa
Council of Economic Advisors Bitter Vets n Noobs
3
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:49:42 -
[160] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Vivias Xelnoa wrote:
I'm looking and posting. I don't know the ins and outs of the big corps. I take it those are two you suggest looking into?
I can't speak for Pandemic Horde's quality since I'm not in that alliance, but I imagine it's at least as good as Karmafleet. Regarding Karmafleet: It is a newbie friendly corp backed by (arguably) the most successful alliance in the game. You will have opportunities to participate in basically any activity you can imagine. You will have access to learning resources and help from mentors basically 24/7. You will have access to near infinite wealth and access to those who can teach you how to make it. Honestly there's never been a time where a new player has had easier access to the best resources. GSF invests in newbies, but generally has stuck to investing in newbies of our own external forum community only. Now it's basically a free for all for anyone who plunges in and makes an effort.
Isn't the Goonswarm the same thing as the Goonsquad? If so I've heard of you folks even before I played Eve.. Mostly bad. Lol
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Max Muni
Muni Corp
5
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:58:32 -
[161] - Quote
Those would be cool, but they no longer seem to be available, at least on the market anywhere. |
Arkady Romanov
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
633
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Posted - 2015.12.23 00:59:10 -
[162] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote: Isn't the Goonswarm the same thing as the Goonsquad? If so I've heard of you folks even before I played Eve.. Mostly bad. Lol
Some of them might even be true. We like to perpetuate the idea of being the villain. Its a huge amount of fun.
We make no bones about being horrible to those who aren't on the inside. We'll steal enemy space, infiltrate and spy on corps, pull their space entrails from their bodies and wear their skins like a suit but when you are one of us, you are invited to sit at the head table of the monster's ball and taste the gooey brains of our defeated enemies. If CCP implement the skill packet system, we'll be able to do that in a literal sense.
So yeah, some of those things said about us are true. However, anyone with an ounce of honesty in them when they start spraying spittle and hate about us will at least grudgingly concede that we invest in newbies.
Whole Squid: Get Inked.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42176
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:14:54 -
[163] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Isn't the Goonswarm the same thing as the Goonsquad? If so I've heard of you folks even before I played Eve.. Mostly bad. Lol
Don't go and read Reddit at the moment then.
For Karmafleet, Goons have a no scamming policy, so it's safe to join.
But then you'll cop the grr Goon stuff from everyone else, even though Karmafleet is good.
Pandemic Horde doesn't have the grr gons, hat gons stigma and they are both about the same for supporting new players.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
989
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:20:52 -
[164] - Quote
Yeah, it's tough for new players to catch up. It's supposed to be. Deal with it. |
Vivias Xelnoa
Council of Economic Advisors Bitter Vets n Noobs
3
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:26:00 -
[165] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:Yeah, it's tough for new players to catch up. It's supposed to be. Deal with it.
I don't get this attitude. In any other MMO I can grind my ass off and put in the time to be at the top with other folks but here there is a glass ceiling and folks seem to like that.. I really don't get it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26623
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:30:05 -
[166] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:I don't get this attitude. In any other MMO I can grind my ass off and put in the time to be at the top with other folks but here there is a glass ceiling and folks seem to like that.. I really don't get it. Quite the opposite: there is no glass ceiling GÇö getting to the top is inevitable. This, along with the lack of level grinding, is what people like.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Memphis Baas
837
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:47:48 -
[167] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:I don't get this attitude. In any other MMO I can grind my ass off and put in the time to be at the top with other folks but here there is a glass ceiling and folks seem to like that.. I really don't get it.
You've never seen "stop dumbing the game down", "stop making it easy to raid", "where is the difficulty", and "achieving level x or item y used to mean something" posts in other games?
Some people don't like change, and blame you / whoever posts / whoever disagrees with them as the reason why developers chose to change the game.
Posting repeatedly at CCP is pointless; they don't respond. You, however, do. Thus, such threads.
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Vivias Xelnoa
Council of Economic Advisors Bitter Vets n Noobs
3
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:51:00 -
[168] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Vivias Xelnoa wrote:I don't get this attitude. In any other MMO I can grind my ass off and put in the time to be at the top with other folks but here there is a glass ceiling and folks seem to like that.. I really don't get it. You've never seen "stop dumbing the game down", "stop making it easy to raid", "where is the difficulty", and "achieving level x or item y used to mean something" posts in other games? Some people don't like change, and blame you / whoever posts / whoever disagrees with them as the reason why developers chose to change the game. Posting repeatedly at CCP is pointless; they don't respond. You, however, do. Thus, such threads.
I threaten their view of what they feel Eve should be? I guess that make sense. Oh well either CCP will try to adjust to entice new people to play or Eve will shrink with games like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen beginning to get big. |
Arkady Romanov
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
633
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Posted - 2015.12.23 01:57:32 -
[169] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote: I threaten their view of what they feel Eve should be? I guess that make sense. Oh well either CCP will try to adjust to entice new people to play or Eve will shrink with games like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen beginning to get big.
Just like when SW:TOR came out, and when STO came out, and when X and Y Eve killers came out. Oh wait.
In the words of Morpheus;
WE ARE STILL HERE!
Heck, when I joined, people said I was 8 years too late to be joining. They were, to a man, wrong. Nobody is threatened by your opinion, we're tired of it. It was wrong 3 years ago and its wrong now.
Whole Squid: Get Inked.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26623
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:04:34 -
[170] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Eve will shrink with games like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen beginning to get big.
Oh dear. Does anyone know a good surgeon? I need my sides stitched back together.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.3 - Vanguard Edition.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13194
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:21:40 -
[171] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Eve will shrink with games like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen beginning to get big. Oh dear. Does anyone know a good surgeon? I need my sides stitched back together.
Me too, no one tell that poster about Star Trek Online, Jumpgate, Black Prophecy, SWTOR, SWG or the other dozen or so games that were supposed to do that before people started claiming it's going to be Elite, SC, No Man's Sky or some other game that won't and can't offer what EVE does.
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Arkady Romanov
Hole Violence Goonswarm Federation
634
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:26:01 -
[172] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Yeah, it's tough for new players to catch up. It's supposed to be. Deal with it. I don't get this attitude. In any other MMO I can grind my ass off and put in the time to be at the top with other folks but here there is a glass ceiling and folks seem to like that.. I really don't get it.
Incidentally, you know this option exists already right?
Get yourself into a basic Highsec Incursion Logi ship and poopsock your way to billions. If that doesn't appeal, join Karmafleet, do a strat op or two per month and spend the rest of the time ratting. Don't want to do null and don't want to work with other people? Fine; run missions in highsec and learn to do them efficiently. Still not satisfied? Station trade or seed markets for cash. Feeling a little shady? Scam some people! Break into a corporation and steal everything not nailed down! Whatever floats your boat! Once you've got a fat wad of cash, make your way to the character bazaar on the forums and get a character with 50 million SP (or whatever minimum amount YOU deem is an acceptable amount).
Congratulations, you've just grinded your way to the "top."
Then what? You'll be able to sit in more ships. Great! Pity you won't know how to use any of them properly, and you'll probably discover that without your own goals for yourself, you'll quickly get bored and quit.
The things you need most in EVE are; friends, and a goal to work towards and a rival to compete with. That's what makes EVE fun.
Whole Squid: Get Inked.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
42179
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:36:14 -
[173] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Eve will shrink with games like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen beginning to get big. I hope both SC and Elite Dangerous are hits and live long lives as games for people.
That won't make either of them an Eve killer and I doubt I'll ever play either (I bought E:D but haven't played it), for the same reason I don't play any game other than Eve.
They don't offer the single shard, competitive challenge that Eve offers.
Not every gamer looks for the same thing and not every game has to offer a product to meet everyone's needs.
Eve meets the needs of gamers in a particular way and for all the possibilities that E:D and SC promise, they wont meet every gamers need either.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
28300
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Posted - 2015.12.23 02:43:46 -
[174] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Yeah, it's tough for new players to catch up. It's supposed to be. Deal with it. I don't get this attitude. In any other MMO I can grind my ass off and put in the time to be at the top with other folks but here there is a glass ceiling and folks seem to like that.. I really don't get it. I can answer that.
What your people are doing is grinding for self esteem. Then, when they all have equally long schlongs (reached max level) ... ... they can fight "fair fights" to determine who is the more skilled one.
That's all there is to it. Of course we have schlongs in EVE as well ... ... but our game isn't made to cater to them.
Our game doesn't manipulate people into a contest about the size of our ego/schlong/wallet.
Your games do.
Umar Umarhabib > The bad thing is, every time I die with a juicy Deadspace set up, it becomes harder to fly solo.
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W33b3l
The Scope Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:05:31 -
[175] - Quote
In regards to new players not being able to go almost anywhere (NBSI with bubbled gates are a pain for anyone), I flew a noob ship to the EVE Gate on autopilot. twice. SOV space can be iffy in some places but low and NPC null are not the emediate death traps that people like to think all the time. If you know the basics on how to fly a ship, you can wander damn near anywhere. The only reason I died the first time was because I didnt have any implants, didnt want to fly back, flew up to a HAC and said HI! lol
I agree that doing things like PVP can be hard if you just dont have the income to replace your losses, that is a valid point since new players generally do not have that isk. The thing is though, there are soo many corps out there that will just give a newer player a frigate they can fly and have them come along on a roam.
This is not a theme park MMO. If you want that play WOW or ESO. People need to understand that EVE is supposed to mimic a real world. EVE is supposed to be hard. EVE is supposed to **** you off to all hell at times. You are expected to make your own game.
When I first started I was constantly realizing that I couldn't use certain things because of skills. The thing is, at least when it came to ships, the things I wanted to fly, I didnt have the money for until the SP was there anyway. All us older players can skill up an alt no problem from scratch. Part of being a new player is learning how to do it. There is more real life experience (well experience in game) needed then SP. When I was new I looked forward to training up something new and making the isk to use it. If it where not for that time needed, I wouldnt appreciate it. Now I just have a 200 day skill plan just to do it. Growing is part of this game, skipping past it robs you of the experience.
Ships are not content, skills are not content, mods are not content. The crazy and weird crap people do just because they decide to do it is the content.
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Vivias Xelnoa
Council of Economic Advisors Bitter Vets n Noobs
3
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:20:53 -
[176] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:Vivias Xelnoa wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:Yeah, it's tough for new players to catch up. It's supposed to be. Deal with it. I don't get this attitude. In any other MMO I can grind my ass off and put in the time to be at the top with other folks but here there is a glass ceiling and folks seem to like that.. I really don't get it. Incidentally, you know this option exists already right? Get yourself into a basic Highsec Incursion Logi ship and poopsock your way to billions. If that doesn't appeal, join Karmafleet, do a strat op or two per month and spend the rest of the time ratting. Don't want to do null and don't want to work with other people? Fine; run missions in highsec and learn to do them efficiently. Still not satisfied? Station trade or seed markets for cash. Feeling a little shady? Scam some people! Break into a corporation and steal everything not nailed down! Whatever floats your boat! Once you've got a fat wad of cash, make your way to the character bazaar on the forums and get a character with 50 million SP (or whatever minimum amount YOU deem is an acceptable amount). Congratulations, you've just grinded your way to the "top." Then what? You'll be able to sit in more ships. Great! Pity you won't know how to use any of them properly, and you'll probably discover that without your own goals for yourself, you'll quickly get bored and quit. You'll also probably discover that the journey was more fun than the destination (assuming you took the smart option of working with and learning from other people, or otherwise being clever about getting the ISK required in the first place). The things you need most in EVE are; friends, and a goal to work towards and a rival to compete with. That's what makes EVE fun.
Joining a corp and doing big stuff sounds the most appealing to me. I'll prb end up trying to join you folks or the other folks mentioned.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7068
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:26:05 -
[177] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote:
I threaten their view of what they feel Eve should be? I guess that make sense. Oh well either CCP will try to adjust to entice new people to play or Eve will shrink with games like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen beginning to get big.
Rest assured, you idea is more threatening to new players than the old ones. This has been explained time and time again, but you are trying very hard to ignore it.
As for SC and Elite being a competitive threat to this game, Elite's been out for a while and has had no noticeable effect. EVE took a bigger hit from GTA5's release than Elite's, and even that was just a dint so statistically insignificant it was yawned at. Meanwhile, Star Citizen is more likely to appear to the more casual crowd, which is exactly the kind of crowd this game doesn't really need, even if the doors are open to them here. I don't see it being a threat either though, it does not have the same things that make EVE unique, and it's not the same kind of game, and neither is Elite, so you're comparing apples to oranges. Just because they're all space games doesn't mean anything.
For the record, in the time I've played Elite, I have yet to see it get 'big'. And I've been playing it since very very early alpha. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game, but both SC and Elite are as niche as EVE is, and will only ever appeal to a small-ish crowd to begin with themselves. Oh sure, other people will check them out, but they won't stick around like the hobbyists who are actually legitimately interested in the style of gameplay on offer.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
7068
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:42:01 -
[178] - Quote
Let me explain, for the new people that think they know better, why skill progression takes the time it does. There are two big reasons, and they are not mutually exclusive.
The first is to try to balance what you can access in game with what you've learned to do in the game. For example, but the time you've skilled for a Taranis, it should be because you've enjoyed flying tackle in an Atron and want to up your game. Want to train into battleships? By then you should have learned at least some basics to fitting and fleet combat, if you've been working with other people (which is what this game intends). Decided you like flying armour reps in an Augoror and want to step up into a Guardian? Then you should already know how to set up cap chains and maintain a cohesive anchor point and target priority system for your logistics wing, maybe even manage and lead your own logistics wing. In simpler terms, you should already know how to use what you're training for before you've even trained for it. Despite popular opinion, you don't really need to get all level five skills for capitals and various other ships to 'fly them effectively'. Flying effectively is all about your own attitude, and your own wits, not skill points.
The other big reason, which ties in with the first by virtue of being a time sink, is CCP want subscribers. They want people to stick around. There has to be some degree of commitment shown by players, and this is a way of getting it. And don't look so bemoaned about 'underhanded business tactics' - every subscription game has time sinks for the same reason. What do you think cooldowns are for in games like SWTOR? Players who have a legitimate interest in the game will get past the time sinks, subscribe anyway, and earn their place in the community, while the impatient and less interested folk will head on back to whatever shiny thing catches their attention next. They were never going to subscribe anyway, and subscription game developers don't particularly want them around in the first place because they fuzzy up the data. Casuals are also part of the reason so many developers no longer listen to players and prefer to defer to data.
You really need to understand why skill training is the way it is before you suggest changes to it, because any changes you suggest have to satisfy the criteria that establish why the system exists the way it does in the first place. So please, explain to us how three years of training crammed into only one satisfies player commitment via time sinks, and we can start considering the suggestion worthwhile, because like it or not, the first criteria required for this game to survive is CCP has to be able to fund it, which means it needs to make money. Given that enough players stick around for the existing system for CCP to do exactly that, make money, I'm just not seeing how your suggestion is an improvement to the game as a whole. Your idea is nothing more than the illusion of an improvement to a select few individuals who don't understand how the game works in the first place, and if and when they do learn how it works, they'll finally understand how accelerated skill training did nothing for them.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9693
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Posted - 2015.12.23 03:55:41 -
[179] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote: The first is to try to balance what you can access in game with what you've learned to do in the game.
It takes a few weeks to understand how manufacturing works. It takes a year to train the skills to do it with any hope of making a profit.
That's just one example of how completely wrong you people are. Stop focusing on the one little thing out of the hundreds you can do in this game to support your personal bias.
What it really boils down to, as can be seen in all its glory in the skill pack thread, is that vets don't want new players to have it easier than they had it. What a bunch of selfish ingrates. So many posts where between the lines they're saying, "I don't care if it kills the game, God dammit. You newbs will suffer like we had to".
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
89
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Posted - 2015.12.23 04:06:36 -
[180] - Quote
Vivias Xelnoa wrote: I threaten their view of what they feel Eve should be? I guess that make sense. Oh well either CCP will try to adjust to entice new people to play or Eve will shrink with games like Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen beginning to get big.
Yeah fine, you are the saviour of Eve, and if we all adopt your ideas then we will not drown in popularity of Star Citizen - based on a very limited game, and heading the way of many other kickstarter hyped games - it'll turn up when interest has waned
You don't threaten anyone...
You have picked up a meme, that has been around for years - the open coms podcast was suggesting your exact idea 2 weeks ago - and now having failed to make a case for your 'idea', you have resorted to passive aggressive, woe is me, Joan of arc tactics.
Skill points are what they are... you can have ten of them, you can have 10billion.... they have precisely nothing to do with why you can or can't progress in the game... and until new players realise this, all speeding up their acquisition will do is to give them an excuse for why they failed at a non-linear game - (a quick tip, don't rush for the battleship, or the level 4 missions folks - it will just give you a godlike delusion that will only lead to disappointment - save your money, build you real skill, and the skills in the training queue, bide your time, and find your place in the game)
Oh and let's not forget, that arguably the period in which Eve stopped growing - was when they removed the mechanic that when you got popped and podded, unless you had your clone up-graded, you actually lost skill points - something that was removed because it 'apparently' didn't encourage new players... born hey! that was back before you were born...
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