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Badger
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Posted - 2003.12.05 07:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Badger on 05/12/2003 07:01:44
Israeli Defense Force corp has been told by CCP that they have to change their name. This after the corp has been in existance for a little over 4 months??
Yet its ok to have The British Space Corps (name used as an example)? or any one of a number of countries, companies, or what not having EVE corporations naming themselves after them.
Now I am concerned that maybe my corps name could be considered satanical and ...
B
Badger
Admiral of Ethics
Hadean Drive Yards
"Fear shouldn't hurt, just never put your hand into a bag of angr |
Agent Shield
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Posted - 2003.12.05 07:17:00 -
[2]
It is strange, but I think what happened is that someone saw postings by one of their corp members, and saw a way to cause a ruckus. In space, you would probably never see the name of their corp, or give it a second notice.
But in the forums, your name and corp can be recognized by your postings, so be careful on who you get riled up. 
You are correct though, if a corp can have a name for 4 months, then have to change now because of someone tattle-tailing, then every player and corp is a possible target.
I even saw a post, where I may not have ever noticed until it was pointed out, that some player has a name like: Sukkannuh Bahlsacht (or something like that).
People can be ingenious with their names and this was definitely creative. Why someone finds that IDF is offensive or somehow wrong to have as a corp name, I don't know. Do they not like the word Israeli, or Defense, or the word Force in the corp name? Would the person who has a problem with it be ok with Middle Eastern Protective Group? 
BTW Badger, I won't tell or get upset with your name. You are using the word Yards in your name and I find it offensive. You should have to change your name to Hadean Drive 3 Feets, but I will just let it go. 
Agent Shield |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.05 07:36:00 -
[3]
CCP started it by including "of French origin" in the gallente description...If they hadn't they could have just simply banned any Earth references in corp and player names. WOuld've made things much easier.
As is I think you will find a distinction between BSC as having no identiy attached to it in terms of an organisation, otherwise lets just get al queda corp back on the books.
Bottom line is that for any chance of everyone to believe this is deliberatly discriminatory we all hav to subscribe to a combined CCp and GM team methodical anti-semitic stance/operation.
And that, frankly, is farce.
Let it lie.
I've no interest in seeing the ***, Sinn Fein, IDF, al queda, PLO, or any other name chosen either deliberatley to draw ire and comment or innocently (like yeah - they are all making a statemnt) - none are especially suitable or relevant and all indicate a succinct and direct notional statement... because they are organisations.
Sorry but this dog wnt run imo and trying to make a big deal out of a simple and inconsequential matter is simply playing for attention and wasting the DEVs/GMs time.
How many more IDF threads must we have?
Its an organisation, grasp the difference and please lets all move on.
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T'Rana
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:18:00 -
[4]
There is quite a big thread in EVE-I about this.
http://www.eve-i.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=eve1&Number=57102&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:21:00 -
[5]
I think due to the current political situation in palestine and israel, this is a good call.
I find the name offensive.
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Dead
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PERCYDAMAN
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:24:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
I think due to the current political situation in palestine and israel, this is a good call.
I find the name offensive.
Sorry, I disagree... This is just more political correctness run amok.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:29:00 -
[7]
RL politics and religion discussions do not sit well in Eve. Lock please.
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Dead
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Beeny
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:35:00 -
[8]
I think CCP were quite right.
I don't think any real world organisations, current or historical, should be allowed in a virtual world. Personally I don't really care what you choose to call yourself or your corp, but many of these real world groups do cause offense to various other groups, and since we are all here to have fun and escape real life for a while so why add the aggravation of being offended. Now you can argue that it's all about Freedom of Speech, or civil liberties all you want, but how to be fair? Easy, make it policy to have only fictional names with no real world reference. I'm a brit by nationality, and I can imagine some folks being offended if I called my corp "The British Empire", so why do it. People only do it to cause offense to others and are only really showing their own stupidity and ignorance. As for Gallente - French thing, they may have French origins but are now about as french as my big toe. So to have a corp called the FDF(French Defence Force) for example would be daft as I have yet to find the location,planet,faction,city,... called France.
So what are you exactly defending???
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Oosel
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:38:00 -
[9]
i myself had to lose the name ****holio after having it all through beta and 2 months in retail i asked to use cornholio but was told that wasnt allowed either as somebody complained......i now see names far worse than mine currently in game but hey whats in a name it doesnt stop you enjoying the game.
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Scragg
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:42:00 -
[10]
For all you hypersensative aholes out there...
/bonk /bonk /bonk /bonk /bonk /bonk /bonk
Scragg, Tyrell Corporation
Vice-Director Military Operations |
Beeny
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:48:00 -
[11]
Quote:
RL politics and religion discussions do not sit well in Eve. Lock please.
This isn't about specific RL politics or religions, it's about a few muppets out to deliberately cause offense to another group of players. Something we can all well do without. I think this discussion should continue as long as it does not include RL facets. Maybe some good policy can come out of it.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.12.05 14:55:00 -
[12]
I tend to agree that names with real-world geography significance shouldn't be allowed for the sake of suspension of disbelief: it just doesn't help to see "British Space Corps" swanning around when nobody's been in touch with Britain for at least the last fourteen thousand years. Ditto Israeli Defence Force.
I can *just about* make out a case whereby Israeli Defence Force could be considered offensive where British Space Corps would not, but it's an extremely tenuous case - I don't believe it myself, for starters.
More likely is that someone's complained about IDF, but nobody's yet complained about BSC. Given the current state of world politics, anything to do with Israel, pro- or anti-, is more likely to arouse complaint than anything to do with Britain. NOT, I hasten to add, more justified; just more likely.
I'm pretty sure CCP do not have anyone routinely checking all corp names to make sure they're acceptable - I've twice petitioned about offensive once and been thanked for pointing them out.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.12.05 15:05:00 -
[13]
Quote:
I think CCP were quite right.
I don't think any real world organisations, current or historical, should be allowed in a virtual world. Personally I don't really care what you choose to call yourself or your corp, but many of these real world groups do cause offense to various other groups, and since we are all here to have fun and escape real life for a while so why add the aggravation of being offended. Now you can argue that it's all about Freedom of Speech, or civil liberties all you want, but how to be fair? Easy, make it policy to have only fictional names with no real world reference. I'm a brit by nationality, and I can imagine some folks being offended if I called my corp "The British Empire", so why do it. People only do it to cause offense to others and are only really showing their own stupidity and ignorance. As for Gallente - French thing, they may have French origins but are now about as french as my big toe. So to have a corp called the FDF(French Defence Force) for example would be daft as I have yet to find the location,planet,faction,city,... called France.
So what are you exactly defending???
complete noncense.. Someone can find the MI5 or KGB facinating and is using their ideology and strategies ingame to get succes in the game or simply by facination or even a small aspect as humor.
I bet if i would call my corporation NASA, noone would object against it. And if i would call it Seal or SWAT noone would petition it.
The issue in Israel is overrated, its not like the guy named his corporation Arabic suicide squad or something. He called his corporation an official and international aknowledged organisation, and the ingame corp exists for over 4 MONTHS!!!!
Like.. common 
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.12.05 15:51:00 -
[14]
Yea i bet CCP are all ****s and are making plans to destroy the jewish race and take over europe as we speak. I think someone should call the united nations or something. This is clearly discrimination. If the corp was called Iraqi Defence Force, i dont think the same thing would happen. I bet CCP would give them a miner3 bp and 1billion isk, because CCP are obviously DISCRIMINATING little ****s that hate israel and its residents. Omg the horror, the horror. *yawn*
-
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SkyQuake
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:03:00 -
[15]
Call yourself IDF - plain and simple. Nothing offensive about that.
British Space consortium need to change their name to though (Blair - Fox-hunting - They attacked my country in 1840-70 something) - if Isralei defence force have to!
Well my point is, if CCP goes through with this, they have to do it with all the corps who use IRL country names. There can be no difference.
SQ
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Amin
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:05:00 -
[16]
Quote:
The issue in Israel is overrated, its not like the guy named his corporation Arabic suicide squad or something. He called his corporation an official and international aknowledged organisation, and the ingame corp exists for over 4 MONTHS!!!!
Its not discrimination, the Palestinian- Israeli issue brings up very strong feelings from people all over the world. And most of us play games to get away from rl issues.
Similarly, had i named a corp Palestinain Liberation Army, i would expect mass protest and expect it to be changed by GM's.
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
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Hardin
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:39:00 -
[17]
Corps named after food never offend anyone!
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Hakera
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:43:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Hakera on 05/12/2003 16:43:32
I hate pie (the food - not the corp)!
but I like pizza 
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Luxer
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:44:00 -
[19]
Mmmmmmm. Pie.
_________________
Do unto others before they do unto you. |
SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:45:00 -
[20]
Edited by: SlightlyMad on 05/12/2003 16:50:26
The mentioned corp named sucked.
I would have banned it because of lack of imagination.
However, any individual taking offence because of it is pretty weak of mind. The offensive nature lies only in the offended persons mind, drawing far fetched conclusions and mixing in reallife events.
Why isn't "Carebears on Weed" changed?
Clearly a refference to drugs.
What about "Playboy Corp"?
That is pretty offensive. Referring to naked women, sex, and a general low attitude towards women
Why isn't "Jade Constantine" names change?
95% of the EVE population gets an upset stomach thinking of her
*
-"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
Hakera
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:48:00 -
[21]
hey lets take this totally out of proportion (this debate is already!) and just rename everyone to Eve member # and every corp to Eve Corp #
"Mountain out of molehill anyone!?"
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
SlightlyMad
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:51:00 -
[22]
Great idea!!!
I'll be: Player#666
*
-"You know, we play the "good guys" right? We kill pirates, griefers, retards and general subversive elements in the EVE-Community. To the rest, we are friendly and always prepared to help out. Peo |
Guiermes
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Posted - 2003.12.05 16:58:00 -
[23]
Lock this thread before it degenerates into a flamefest. IDF Ceo has already started one at eve-i and its become a **** contest. And for the record, count me as one who finds it offensive.
Leave real-life in real-life , it's a game ffs there is absolutely no reason to bring real life hatred, animosity and politics into eve. Some people, like me, want to take a break from the real world when we login.
Lock and shut this sucker down.
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Yoseph Cohen
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:00:00 -
[24]
I normally don't surf the general discussion forum, and I was quite blown away that there was this level of support for the IDF.
Thanks, guys.
I have argued this to several GMs, Pann, and anyone else who will listen to me.
The bottom line is that the IDF is considered unacceptable for EVE, as is any name with "Israel" in it, because "Israel" is considered a reference to RL politics.
"british space corps" is considered ok, because its not a refernece to RL politics.
At least that's what the arguement is as best as I can understand it.
I feel there is something wrong when the IDF is banned, but (and this is just a short list -
Swedish Mining Corporation,
Swedish *
Swedish * (times 50)
Vikings * (times 50)
Playboy
Microsoft
RUS
S.A.S.
Miners Union * * (A good number of these too - falls under politics)
Are allowed.
I could accept that the IDF is "too hot to handle", but I take incredible offense that British Space Corporation is allowed, but Israeli Space Corporation is not.
But, CCP Customer Service has spoken, and there is nothing else I can do.
I doubt a massive player campaign would do anything at this point, since its a "dig in heels" issue.
Therefor, I can only say I'll get over it, and find a new game to play.
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
Israeli Defense Forces
(A divison of Israeli Space Corporation) |
Guiermes
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:03:00 -
[25]
Great then you can stop trolling for sympathy. Either change the name and play the game. or move on, as you said
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Yoseph Cohen
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:04:00 -
[26]
I didn't start the thread, or post it in intill it was two pages long.
Go scream at someone for daring to post about it.
I don't even KNOW that guy.
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
Israeli Defense Forces
(A divison of Israeli Space Corporation) |
Guiermes
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 17:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Guiermes on 05/12/2003 17:13:56
Grow a thicker skin and move on. You know full well that starting or entering this thread was only going to help it along into degenerating into a **** fest, just like the one at eve-i.
I'm just at a loss to see why after that one has gone so badly that you folks have decided to open the same can of worms here. CCP is final say if you dont like it , then cancel and find another game. There is absolutely no one forcing you to pay and play for this one.
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Yoseph Cohen
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:16:00 -
[28]
That's exactly what I intend to do.
However, someone I've never spoken to in game stook up for me.
I appricate that, and said so, along with what will likely be my final word on the issue.
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
************************* (Corp Name blocked by offensive content filter) |
Guiermes
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:21:00 -
[29]
Quote:
I appricate that, and said so, along with what will likely be my final word on the issue.
I honestly hope so. I would have thought the eve-i forum thread would have been enough. There is enough negativity on these boards without adding to it.
Hopefully you will be able to find yourself another mmog to login to. Do yourself a favor and read the EULA on that one before clicking yes, it will save you alot of time.
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Yoseph Cohen
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:24:00 -
[30]
I have had the IDF as my org name on every single MMOPG that was sci-fi based I have ever played.
And I have played them all.
Its never been a problem. So, I do read the EULA. If you want rote reading of the EULA, Playboy and Microsoft corps violate the "No Copyrighted Names" part.
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
************************
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Guiermes
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:25:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Guiermes on 05/12/2003 17:27:00
CCP has final say . What part of that don't you understand . It's been 2 to 3 weeks of this BS move on or go away.
Sitting there moaning about it and ****ing people off isn't going to do you any favors.
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Yoseph Cohen
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:26:00 -
[32]
2 to 3 weeks?!
Man. :)
More like 2 to 3 days.
No, 4 days actually.
Cause 4 days ago the name was changed.
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
*********************** |
Guiermes
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:30:00 -
[33]
Would you like a cookie? Will that make it all better? I'll send you one.
By the way i thought it was your final say on the matter etc....
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Yoseph Cohen
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:31:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Yoseph Cohen on 05/12/2003 17:32:03
Sorry, your corp name was effecting me. :)
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
Israeli Defense Forces
(A divison of Israeli Space Corporation) |
Guiermes
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 17:38:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Edited by: Yoseph Cohen on 05/12/2003 17:32:03
Sorry, your corp name was effecting me. :)
Nothing like it. Best damn fun i've had ingame since i started. With more to come.
Here's my final word on the matter because its getting seriously tedious. CCP is GOD whatever they say goes if you don't like it, hey you can always get together and build another wall or barrier. Whatever the real IDF chooses to call it lately.
Just make sure to build a really big long lasting one so that people in the future can see the sheer stupidity of man and his hatred towards another. Have a nice day.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:52:00 -
[36]
The corporation is named after a real world organization that carries heavy political, religious and nationalist connotations. It will not be viewed in a positive light by everone.
Until there is a corporation explicitedly named 'United States Marine Corp' in game and the GMs refuse to change that name after being notified, you don't have any grounds to claim discrimination.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Cortex Reaver
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Posted - 2003.12.05 17:53:00 -
[37]
Quote:
I think due to the current political situation in palestine and israel, this is a good call.
I find the name offensive.
And what about your Corp name then? Isn't Jericho an issue of the whole Palastinian/Israeli debacle?
-CR
/*
Cortex Reaver
crtxreavr at trioptimum dot com
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759
*/ |
Guiermes
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 18:06:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Quote:
I think due to the current political situation in palestine and israel, this is a good call.
I find the name offensive.
And what about your Corp name then? Isn't Jericho an issue of the whole Palastinian/Israeli debacle?
-CR
Replies like that are what shut it down. I'm sure Eve Devs. wouldn't want to have a scope headline that read ,
" Newsflash Reports just in of a major catastrophe in New Tel Aviv system where New galil weapons station planet 4 moon 3 was blown up 22:34 EV time today . Neither the muslim brotherhood or PLO have taken responsibilty."
Somehow i seriously doubt that's where the developers want to take this game.
As i stated in a previous post , Real-life very very touchy politics ,for many people, has no business ingame. And that corp. name justifiably will inflame passions for or against. And ok thats it my last post on the subject, honest.
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.12.05 18:08:00 -
[39]
Example of how current events affect life:
1
30 years ago:
smoking pot was ok
smoking was ok
drinking was not
Now:
drinking is fine,
smoking is condemned
pot is the devil
2
150 years ago
the irish in the US were considered scumbags
50 years ago
the italian were scum
30 years ago
african americans
10 years ago
indians
now
people from the middle east are taking heat, it sucks, it would be best if we all did something better with opur lives, but its pointless to argue with a company that is just trying to keep the game as away from the current mess in the world as possible.
Personally I think all names that have a national reference in them are somewhat unoriginal and boring.
Jericho Faction sounds ok because of the history behind it...
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
----------------------------------------------- |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 18:15:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Quote:
I think due to the current political situation in palestine and israel, this is a good call.
I find the name offensive.
And what about your Corp name then? Isn't Jericho an issue of the whole Palastinian/Israeli debacle?
-CR
Until there is an organization explicitedly named 'Jericho Fraction' in the real world and the GMs refuse to force that organization to change that name after being notified, you don't have any grounds to claim discrimination.
After all Jericho Fraction has right of usage being first 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Rohann
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Posted - 2003.12.05 18:16:00 -
[41]
Quote:
The mentioned corp named sucked.
I would have banned it because of lack of imagination.
And that comes from a corp member with the name of a famous comic book. How imaginative.
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Lone Gunman
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Posted - 2003.12.05 18:36:00 -
[42]
Personally I think this situation sucks. But I have a solution, Change your name to the JDL. Jovian Defense League.
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Yoseph Cohen
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Posted - 2003.12.05 18:55:00 -
[43]
Heh, that's cute. :)
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
*********************** |
Percy Loudbottom
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Posted - 2003.12.05 19:15:00 -
[44]
British Mining Corp = OK
Swedish Mining Corp = OK
Israeli Mining Corp = Not Allowed
WTF?
I could care less about the Middle East or anybodies Corp name. But if the policy is no RL countries etc the top two should be banned and if RL geopolitical refferences are allowed the bottom one should not be banned. Give me a clearly defined policy and please explain the reasoning on the above three cases.
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Unicode
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Posted - 2003.12.05 19:24:00 -
[45]
Israeli Defense Force not Mining corp and ppl have already said explained "why" its not allowed. Just cos u dont care about the middle east and have no opinion doesnt mean others are the same.
Quote of the Week:
"Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds."
Franklin D. Roosevelt |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.12.05 19:33:00 -
[46]
What a load of carebear crap. If you find the name of a corporation offensive, don't read it. I personally find Microsoft to be more politically and socially offensive than IDF.
If you want to take issue with corporations that relate directly or indirectly to real world organizations that people might find "offensive" you've got a damn long road ahead of you.
Are they preaching hate on public chat channels or forums? Are they behaving in a discriminatory manner? Does their corporation description have anything to do w/ the real IDF? Do they have discriminatory recruitment policies? Are they related to the real IDF in any way? No. No. No. No. No. No.
Asinine.
Let's make m0o change their name in case any Hindu players take offense. Also, any corporations which make reference to the mafia or mob need to be changed. Also, anyone with a real company or country name in the title needs changed. Oh, and while we're at it lets change any names that mention fighting or death so EVE is more friendly to the Jainist community. Oh, and while we're at it the Zoroastrianists have a list of complaints they would like to go over. Would you like to deal with them first, or the people who have had family members die in mining accidents and object to the term "mining" or "miners" in corporate titles and descriptions.
Bah. Gah.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Viper Bronco
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Posted - 2003.12.05 19:48:00 -
[47]
this is to orginal poster.
in another game I had a guild with a rather comical name. I didn't use it in EVE even though I had wanted to, because some found it offensive although funny. after game retailed I noticed that another person used that name.
and thought what a dummy I was for not using it. now I am betting if CCP is starting to check what they allowed, a lot of corps or people will be gettig notices soon
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Rohann
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Posted - 2003.12.05 20:00:00 -
[48]
Well if CCP is to make corps change their names because of rl organizations then they need to rethink the Gallente origins as it pertains to a rl race of ppl. I find it offensive that you have to train Ethnic Relations in order for you to have other races in your corp. I find it to be very discriminating and racist.
Quote:
I like Oreos
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Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2003.12.05 20:27:00 -
[49]
While personnally I could careless what any corp is named, I do think that if CCP wants to ban the IDF, then all corps with RL countries, races, religions, or organizations to include copywrited business names should be removed also. At least meet your own rules on this otherwise I have to agree it is discrimination to say IDF is bad and British, etc.. is ok.
I agree CCP can put any restriction they want on names, but it should be consistant. How does this look if it gets to a gaming mag or the news, or CCP gets a call from the lawyers of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League? CCP does need to be smarter than setting themselfs up for this.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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st0ned
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Posted - 2003.12.05 20:33:00 -
[50]
if i understand right ccp is againt "israel"
being in any corp name . hench , smells like
anti-semitism .
kinda makes me consider ,as an israeli ,
if i want to pay a monthly free to an
antisemitist company . i also wonder
if one could put CCP name on the news , in
other context then "game sales" or "game
review" more like "racism in the gaming
industry"
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.12.05 20:36:00 -
[51]
OMFG... you are nuts.
-----------------------------------------------
Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
----------------------------------------------- |
SkyQuake
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Posted - 2003.12.05 20:37:00 -
[52]
Yup change all RL names or none at all.
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st0ned
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Posted - 2003.12.05 20:39:00 -
[53]
Quote:
OMFG... you are nuts.
notice i did not object to rename the IDF
name , it is a military org after all . but
ANY name containing "israel" not being allowed?
spin around that any way you want , the only
reason for that is racism .
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.05 20:45:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 05/12/2003 20:48:08
Linkage
Now quit being twips and pretending that any of the stupid examples being thrown out has anywhere near the potential to offend as something on that level.
"make m0o change their name in case any Hindu players take offense." Grow up. No adult would say anything that stupid.
"if i understand right ccp is againt "israel" being in any corp name . hench , smells like anti-semitism ." 'st0ned'? Apt.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Amin
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 20:46:00 -
[55]
Quote:
if i understand right ccp is againt "israel"
being in any corp name . hench , smells like
anti-semitism .
kinda makes me consider ,as an israeli ,
if i want to pay a monthly free to an
antisemitist company . i also wonder
if one could put CCP name on the news , in
other context then "game sales" or "game
review" more like "racism in the gaming
industry"
You totally wrong, CCP is not anti-semitic, its all too easy to call them that without thinking about it properly. Iv already posted why CCP are right but let me say it again, Palestinian- Israeli issue brings up very strong feelings from people all over the world.
People obviuosly objected, like other would if there was a corp called Palestinian Liberation Army. Which would also, without doubt would get banned.
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
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j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 20:52:00 -
[56]
... Am i the only one who thinks that whoever complained about the "Israeli Defense Force" used as corporation name was simply offended to see the name they might hold in high esteem, associated with the trash that's been going for quite a while in the "Corporations, Factions and Organizations HQ" section of this forum? >>;
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Miri Tirzan
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 20:52:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Quote:
if i understand right ccp is againt "israel"
being in any corp name . hench , smells like
anti-semitism .
kinda makes me consider ,as an israeli ,
if i want to pay a monthly free to an
antisemitist company . i also wonder
if one could put CCP name on the news , in
other context then "game sales" or "game
review" more like "racism in the gaming
industry"
You totally wrong, CCP is not anti-semitic, its all too easy to call them that without thinking about it properly. Iv already posted why CCP are right but let me say it again, Palestinian- Israeli issue brings up very strong feelings from people all over the world.
People obviuosly objected, like other would if there was a corp called Palestinian Liberation Army. Which would also, without doubt would get banned.
And your missing the point. What CCP is doing is dumb, and I dont mean banning the name. I mean in doing it in a way that it is easy to say this is "anti-semitism", this is discrimination. It is smarter to have a rule that applies to all, and then no one can say they were singled out. I would just as soon not see CCP wasting money that could be spent on making the game better for me on lawyers or PR hacks because of heavy-handed tactics.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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st0ned
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 20:53:00 -
[58]
Edited by: st0ned on 05/12/2003 20:56:44
i bet some iraqis feel very strongly about
the USA , count in most arab countries as well.
i dont see CCP banning any corp name containing
USA in it , do you ?
say any people from argentina finding BRITISH
offensive please stend up .
point is , you cannot ban a country name
because some twit decided its offensive .
every country has the right to defend its
borders and citizens , CCP clearly thinks
that "israel" gets a special treatment over
"british" or "swedish" or whatever , again
spin it any way you want . racism.
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Amin
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:03:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Edited by: st0ned on 05/12/2003 20:56:44
i bet some iraqis feel very strongly about
the USA , count in most arab countries as well.
i dont see CCP banning any corp name containing
USA in it , do you ?
say any people from argentina finding BRITISH
offensive please stend up .
point is , you cannot ban a country name
because some twit decided its offensive .
every country has the right to defend its
borders and citizens , CCP clearly thinks
that "israel" gets a special treatment over
"british" or "swedish" or whatever , again
spin it any way you want . racism.
I suggest u click on the link Jash gave and see that the IDF is a real organisation. Name a corp in eve that is also a rl organisation that people find offense to?
Its not that the corp has the word "Israel", its so easy to scream anti-semitic. Its the fact that its a real life organisation with ties to the occupation.
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
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st0ned
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:06:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Its not that the corp has the word "Israel", its so easy to scream anti-semitic. Its the fact that its a real life organisation with ties to the occupation.
read my posts again , i will repeat myself for you . cpp bans the word "israel" IN ANY FORM
even "israeli mining corporation" would be
banned . how would you explain that when
other countries names are allowed?
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Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:09:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 05/12/2003 21:12:38
Quote:
Quote:
Its not that the corp has the word "Israel", its so easy to scream anti-semitic. Its the fact that its a real life organisation with ties to the occupation.
read my posts again , i will repeat myself for you . cpp bans the word "israel" IN ANY FORM
even "israeli mining corporation" would be
banned . how would you explain that when
other countries names are allowed?
And you know this based on...what exactly?
You had a corp named Israeli Mining Corporation renamed?
Unless you can provide an actual example of CCP banning the word 'Israel' or 'Israeli' specifically, what you just did is called 'Libel' which is subject to punative action.
Tread carefully beyond this point
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
st0ned
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:12:00 -
[62]
Quote:
The bottom line is that the IDF is considered unacceptable for EVE, as is any name with "Israel" in it, because "Israel" is considered a reference to RL politics.
you should really read up entire posts jash.
talking with yoseph in the idf channel i
suggested IDF might be a bit offensive to some
and should rename to "israeli X corp" . yos
promptly told me CCP will not allow israel
in the corp name .
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Tabius
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:13:00 -
[63]
I must say, this particularly bothers me. I'm way more insulted by the French than Israel.
I hope that CCP will actually address this.
If they ban the use of country names and political names in-game, then they need one standard rule and they need to stick with it.
And if this is just a rumor without and basis in fact, then they need to discount it...
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Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:15:00 -
[64]
Quote:
Quote:
The bottom line is that the IDF is considered unacceptable for EVE, as is any name with "Israel" in it, because "Israel" is considered a reference to RL politics.
you should really read up entire posts jash.
talking with yoseph in the idf channel i
suggested IDF might be a bit offensive to some
and should rename to "israeli X corp" . yos
promptly told me CCP will not allow israel
in the corp name .
Provide proof this is what was actually said, not Yoseph's interpretation, and I'll help you burn them.
"He said" = Hearsay, which isn't proof.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
st0ned
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:20:00 -
[65]
Edited by: st0ned on 05/12/2003 21:22:33
im afraid that even if i poke you in the eye
with proof you will not realise that .
pretty simple way to check i think , make
an alt , create "israeli mining" corp and have
someone send a petition about it. anyone care
to try ? im out of alts .
p.s read yoseph's 1st post on this thread
again , he asked ccp to rename to "israeli
space corp" and was refused .
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Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:22:00 -
[66]
Quote:
im afraid that even if i poke you in the eye
with proof you will not realise that .
pretty simple way to check i think , make
an alt , create "israeli mining" corp and have
someone send a petition about it. anyone care
to try ? im out of alts .
What will happen at this point is quite immaterial as anyone with any sense will have warned the GMs to expect something like that and they'd not even blink.
But what you're saying is bull****. You just crossed a pretty damn thick line. Back it up.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Unicode
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:22:00 -
[67]
Quote:
I must say, this particularly bothers me. I'm way more insulted by the French than Israel.
You find the french more insulting, why? Cos they disagree with American policy? While Israel are ok cos there occupying a foriegn nation? Explain that to me?
Quote of the Week:
"Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds."
Franklin D. Roosevelt |
Bad Harlequin
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:23:00 -
[68]
Quote:
I think due to the current political situation in palestine and israel, this is a good call.
yeah, you can't discount the world context for something like this, like it or not. i come here when i DON'T wanna watch the news any more. My views on the matter it conjures are irrelevant - the important fact is that it conjures them.
I don't find it offensive; i find it intrusive. There's an important difference there, but is no less a reason to NOT touch this hot issue with a 100 foot stabber. Let's keep the gameworld free of RL baggage - especially *really* touchy baggage. Hell, we have enough conflict that gets personal as it is, don't we?
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
st0ned
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:24:00 -
[69]
excse me ? thick line ?
why is israel banned and not british ?
or swedish ?
this is an issue bothering not only me
but other players of this community . i feel
i have the right to address this issue without
you trying to scare me away with threats.
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Amin
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:25:00 -
[70]
Quote:
I don't find it offensive; i find it intrusive. There's an important difference there, but is no less a reason to NOT touch this hot issue with a 100 foot stabber. Let's keep the gameworld free of RL baggage - especially *really* touchy baggage. Hell, we have enough conflict that gets personal as it is, don't we?
My feelings exactly 
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Tenacha Khan
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:27:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Tenacha Khan on 05/12/2003 21:28:43
Quote:
Edited by: st0ned on 05/12/2003 21:22:33
im afraid that even if i poke you in the eye
with proof you will not realise that .
pretty simple way to check i think , make
an alt , create "israeli mining" corp and have
someone send a petition about it. anyone care
to try ? im out of alts .
p.s read yoseph's 1st post on this thread
again , he asked ccp to rename to "israeli
space corp" and was refused .
St0ned if I found your name offencive and petitioned it strongley...CCP would make you change it.
So if some1 makes a corp called Israeli mining corp and you petition CCP are gonna make them change it.
FFS, the people who have a problem with the british corps, why do you not petition, I think because you cannot come up with a good enough reason too. But there are many reasons to why IDF would be changed.
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Bad Harlequin
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:28:00 -
[72]
Quote:
Are they related to the real IDF in any way? No. No. No. No. No. No.
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes; they have the exact same name. There's the relation. Hello?
A most particular reference is made, bringing some headline reality into our little game here. Not generic, as you go on with your "examples" of trying to bury a point with overexaggeration.
Look, i'm not trying to start a brawl with you, but i wanna know if you see that it's the situational that is the problem, not the nouns themselves. Were there no ongoing, heated, bloody violent conflict in the middle east, this would not have come up.
For the record, i am a native New Yorker. If someone called themselves Twin Towers Memorial Corp, i would petition to have it changed. Because i don't need to have to look at that in my gameworld. Let the real world stay OUTSIDE these gates. It WILL be there when you get back, i PROMISE.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Tabius
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:28:00 -
[73]
Quote:
excse me ? thick line ?
why is israel banned and not british ?
or swedish ?
this is an issue bothering not only me
but other players of this community . i feel
i have the right to address this issue without
you trying to scare me away with threats.
I agree completely! If CCP actually has decided to Ban one name but not all of them, then they're the ones that have made an issue out of this...
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Bad Harlequin
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:29:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Provide proof this is what was actually said, not Yoseph's interpretation, and I'll help you burn them.
"He said" = Hearsay, which isn't proof.
Tremble and fear, O ye mighty. I'm 100% with Jash on this one.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:30:00 -
[75]
Quote:
excse me ? thick line ?
why is israel banned and not british ?
or swedish ?
this is an issue bothering not only me
but other players of this community . i feel
i have the right to address this issue without
you trying to scare me away with threats.
this depends entirely on CCP making a statement such that references to Palestine would be barred as well. Right?
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:36:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 05/12/2003 21:37:58
Quote:
Quote:
excse me ? thick line ?
why is israel banned and not british ?
or swedish ?
this is an issue bothering not only me
but other players of this community . i feel
i have the right to address this issue without
you trying to scare me away with threats.
I agree completely! If CCP actually has decided to Ban one name but not all of them, then they're the ones that have made an issue out of this...
Which is the problem, Tabius. st0ned has made the claim CCP specifically bans the word 'Israel'. So far what proof he's provided is 'Yoseph said'. That's hearsay.
But he has made a pretty damn serious accusation. He now has to provide real proof to validate that claim. Otherwise he's committed Libel.
Actually Libel and Defamation of Character and anything else CCP's lawyers would feel like slapping him around with in a court if they thought he had any real cash.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Miri Tirzan
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 21:57:00 -
[77]
Quote:
Edited by: Jash Illian on 05/12/2003 21:37:58
Quote:
Quote:
excse me ? thick line ?
why is israel banned and not british ?
or swedish ?
this is an issue bothering not only me
but other players of this community . i feel
i have the right to address this issue without
you trying to scare me away with threats.
I agree completely! If CCP actually has decided to Ban one name but not all of them, then they're the ones that have made an issue out of this...
Which is the problem, Tabius. st0ned has made the claim CCP specifically bans the word 'Israel'. So far what proof he's provided is 'Yoseph said'. That's hearsay.
But he has made a pretty damn serious accusation. He now has to provide real proof to validate that claim. Otherwise he's committed Libel.
Actually Libel and Defamation of Character and anything else CCP's lawyers would feel like slapping him around with in a court if they thought he had any real cash.
Jash, I dont see where anyone has to prove it to you. Why not go out an collect your own information instead of doing the pseudo arguement and then implying threats. The fact is that the only corp name I have heard of begin forced to change is IDF. I also dont care if CCP is right or wrong. But I do care that they are opening themselves up with the appearance of discrimination which within this political correct world is stupid.
All of which is why I suggested that CCP make a policy, apply it to everyone.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 22:06:00 -
[78]
Quote:
Jash, I dont see where anyone has to prove it to you. Why not go out an collect your own information instead of doing the pseudo arguement and then implying threats. The fact is that the only corp name I have heard of begin forced to change is IDF. I also dont care if CCP is right or wrong. But I do care that they are opening themselves up with the appearance of discrimination which within this political correct world is stupid.
All of which is why I suggested that CCP make a policy, apply it to everyone.
Miri when you grow up you might understand that CCP is entirely safe from what you say. However, they are in serious danger if what st0ned says can be proven.
The law allows for common sense, which is enough of a protection from what you're saying they should worry about. The law is specifically designed to punish what st0ned is claiming if proven true.
Now you can worry about the minutia or the more serious accusation.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Major Trucker
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 22:07:00 -
[79]
Maybe it's religious. Just ban all religion, allah told me to do it, God Bless America for Bombing people to the StoneAge, We come to this continent to Spread the word of God all heathens who do not accept Christ will perish (read in nonnative language by the damn near every white dude who murdered native north and south americans just to make his troops think well the captain said God said it OK so lets mutilate some human beings)
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Yoseph Cohen
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 22:27:00 -
[80]
There's been alot of back on forth about who said the Israeli name is unacceptable.
So I'm going to publish some of what I sent to CCP, and some of what came back to me. I'm leaving out the parts that deal with extranious issues, because I feel they'll start a serious flame war here, which isn't nice. If you want to see everything, send me an eve-mail, and I'll be happy to oblige you.
Here's the email I recieved from CCP to the following question I emailed back.
My Email to CCP:
Reading your reply, I'm confused as to one point - if you reason that "Playboy" and "Microsoft" (which according to the EULA are a violation because those names are copyrighted in every country on the planet), are acceptable, but a country name is not - then why is the "British Space Corporation" allowed?
Even better, why is the "british space corporation" allowed, but no varation of Israel in any way shape or form?
Would for instance, "Nation of Israel" or "Israeli Space Defense" be acceptable? How about Knights of Israel? Or "Remember Masada" ?
Are you trying to say the line is a name that some may not like? (IE anything Israeli, or politicaly "hot")
As I have suggested many places, I do feel there is some amount of discrimination involved. While I do not believe that the GMs or CCP is racist, I do believe that whoever petitioned the IDF, has some serious anti-semitic and political correctness issues.
_______________________________
CCP's response to me:
Presently, we will continue to allow players to use the names of real world countries, provided the name falls within the scope of our policies, i.e. doesn't include any real world political, religious or military references. If this starts to be a problem in the future, we may find it necessary to disallow any names of this type.
I must say that I am disappointed by your argumentative tone when I feel we have been more than fair in explaining our policy to you and I have put a lot of effort into getting this matter resolved as best I could.
_______________________________________________
Again, I want to say I do not feel that the employees of CCP are racist, anti-semitic etc.
I do feel however, that this is a serious case of political correctness run amok, and its implintation onto me and the other members of my corp, comes across feeling like discrimination because in my eyes its being selectively applied.
I would however, like to know the results of several players I know petitioning the S.A.S. corp, the SASRecon Deepspace Corp, British Space Corporation, Swedish Mining Group, etc, before I pass final judgement.
If all RL names are banned, there's no problem in my mind.
I know I said I was done talking about this, but I have completely deluged by mail, forum posts, emails, etc of people voicing support.
Quite honestly, it blew me away.
Thank you again, no matter how this turns out.
Shalom.
Yoseph Cohen
Aluf
*********************** |
Rohann
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 22:28:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Rohann on 05/12/2003 22:40:15
Damn this thread is gonna be locked, this sux, well crap.
I say we let all Israeli and Palestinian players get their frustration out in 0.0. Too bad all rl problems cant be solved in a violent video game.
|
Veruna Caseti
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 22:37:00 -
[82]
Jash once again turns a thread into a "You can't prove it!" argument.
Quote:
Grow up. No adult would say anything that stupid.
Whatever, Jash. Fact is what is politcally charged and offensive to some is innocuous to others, and what seems harmless to you can be incredibly offensive to others.
Since we can safely assume the univserse doesn't revolve around you, or around CCP, then singling out IDF for having a "politically motivated" name is indeed a form of discrimination. There are plenty of names out there for which valid complaints could be issued on the exact same grounds, but somehow "Israeli" takes precedence over them. Why? Because it's "more offensive" than others? Give me a break.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Pann
|
Posted - 2003.12.05 23:13:00 -
[83]
The Name policy applies equally to usernames, character names and corporations. We feel that the wording regarding the use of names of real world organizations was clear enough that this issue was cut-and-dried.
In dealing with this case, we have decided to take it a step further and add an additional line to the policy stating that names of real world political, religious or military groups are also not permitted.
Also noted in the policy is the mention that just because a disallowed name may go undetected for a length of time doesn't mean it will be "grandfathered" into acceptance. We don't scroll through the multitude of user, character or corporation names to weed out anything that may not belong there. That would be a huge waste of time. Inappropriate names are usually brought to our attention by forum posts, complaints from players or observations by our volunteers in-game.
When a complaint is received, we investigate and weigh that against our policies. If we find that there is a problem with the name, we take action to correct it.
That said, I am closing this thread now. The sometimes heated responses here illustrate precisely why policies like this are necessary. One man's sense of offensiveness is another man's punchline. There's never going to be a common agreement regarding this subject and it's best to drop it.
Eve Community Manager
[email protected]
CCP |
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