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The battlecruisers and the cost.

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Greyshadow Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:41:00 - [31] Originally by: FreeHansjeToo Now let's try again: why would you want to fly a BC instead of a BS? Speed? There is not much difference there. There is a LOT of difference elsewhere: CAP, Poweroutput and Armor/Shield. I personally can fly BS's but the BC proved a good all around damage platform. You can supply gank and tank and you have a wider range of targets due to the weapons fitted. I'm talking about Drake to Raven/Scorp/Rokh, but the same can still apply to others, by all means though I'm not saying some BS's can't do the same but the BC is designed better for that kind of combat. Oh and you say speed isn't a lot different between BC & BS, well bang a 10mn MWD on and your get a good speed and good acceleration as well. Where as a BS will need some time to get that top end unless you've had to use other slots which then gimps your setup. Oh its so not as clear cut as you make out, so many good reasons to fly a BC. ------ The Grim Reaper is out of the office at the moment leave a message and Greyshadow will get back to you!
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:49:00 - [32] Originally by: FreeHansjeToo Now let's try again: why would you want to fly a BC instead of a BS? Speed? There is not much difference there. There is a LOT of difference elsewhere: CAP, Poweroutput and Armor/Shield. Large weapon sig resoltuion - 400 Medium weapon sig resolution - 125 and better tracking Thats why i prefer my BC. Its better for killing everything but bs.
Spaced Skunk Buffed Rumpuss Zit Dids	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:00:00 - [33] Edited by: Spaced Skunk on 19/01/2007 14:57:44 I am one of those pilots that prefer medium sized weapons, despite my character being well trained to use a Tempest/Typhoon/Mealstrom. I again do beleive the prices are rediculous, t2 does require more to build yes, but not so much more. Again, its not a case of demand with the modules, it is a case of resellers. As noted, a lot of the prices went down when CCP reseeded the BPOs, a week later back to thier normal prices with medium weapons being effected by heavy inflation. Its definatly resellers. I would personally like to build all my setups myself, adding that more challenging yet rewarding aspect to EvE. However because of the tech2 BPOs being rewarded from a lottery and invention being crappy the t2 prices never settle down. I dont think CCP will make it so invention gives you a chance of producing a BPO. Which obviously would get a lot of newbie industrial corporations a bigger chance at making isk, and give people the chance to be completely self reliant.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:16:00 - [34] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 19/01/2007 15:14:41 T2 modules cost so much perhaps for a simple reason. No t2 item is seeded on the market, as far as i'm aware they can only be bought from another player. Knowing that we need to look at where most people chose to spend their time doing research (from an agent), coincidentally that just happens to be overwhelmingly in favor or T2 ships. Since most people are using all their agents for ships research would it not stand to assume less T2 module bpo's are being won? Less people making them = higher cost because of less competition. The best example i can find are T2 Cap rechargers, they cost about 25mill each. Now use t1 and named times that you find and your module cost plummets well below the cost of the ship. If you want to deck out your t1 ship with t2 modules its probably going to cost more for the modules than for the ship. As a general rules for PvE fly the best ship you can, for PvP fly what you can afford to lose and replace immediatly without worrying about isk.
Sol Star	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:33:00 - [35] Originally by: Christopher Dalran The best example i can find are T2 Cap rechargers, they cost about 25mill each. You haven't checked latest market prices on these lately have you?
Arion Daishi	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:37:00 - [36] Dont forget the cost of rigs. Rigs will add another 50-100m to the cost of the ship. I am currently running with t2BCUs, t2 hardeners and extenders. The missile launchers, pdus and invuln fields are t1. I cant bring myself to pay 20m for a t2 invuln field. The gain over named t1 isnt all that big. My Drake is currently running at nearly 200m with 2 rigs, 7 arby launchers, and the rest (please dont bring my inability to find low prices into this). Take a look at the missile launchers. t1 arby heavy launchers are running at about 12m a pop. The same siege launchers is half that price. There are simply more people making BS sized weaponry, lowing its cost. Daishi
Ghostshadow Caldari Templars of Space	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:51:00 - [37] You don't make arbys.... Try compairing Siege I/II to Heavy I/II (might be the same issue... But at least those modules can be player built) _________________________________ He who laughs last Thinks slowest
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Christopher Dalran Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 19/01/2007 15:14:41 T2 modules cost so much perhaps for a simple reason. No t2 item is seeded on the market, as far as i'm aware they can only be bought from another player. Knowing that we need to look at where most people chose to spend their time doing research (from an agent), coincidentally that just happens to be overwhelmingly in favor or T2 ships. Since most people are using all their agents for ships research would it not stand to assume less T2 module bpo's are being won? Less people making them = higher cost because of less competition. The best example i can find are T2 Cap rechargers, they cost about 25mill each. Now use t1 and named times that you find and your module cost plummets well below the cost of the ship. If you want to deck out your t1 ship with t2 modules its probably going to cost more for the modules than for the ship. As a general rules for PvE fly the best ship you can, for PvP fly what you can afford to lose and replace immediatly without worrying about isk. Because im such a good guy im willing to sell you 20 caprechargers 2 for 18 mil each... _________________________________________________ Breetime
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:16:00 - [39] It's cheaper than an HAC. Originally by: Khavi Vetali Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:43:00 - [40] For as long as I have had the ISK and Skills to do it, I only use T2 items. I donÆt even bother with low level named or T1 unless itÆs a throw away ship (Ferox during war time). My Drakes are all fully T2 fitted except for my rigs, IÆll fix that as soon as they are listed on the market. I donÆt insure my ships anymore cause the fittings IÆll lose are often 2 to 3 times the cost of the ship. Just to give you an Idea, my level 4 mission Drake using faction gear costs around 500mil in total and itÆs worth every ISK I spent on it. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
OrangeAfroMan Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.20 00:54:00 - [41] Hell I faction fit my main ships to get an advantage over the T2ers. The cost is worth it - but also don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it, simple. Nos - Time for a Change
OrangeAfroMan Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.20 00:55:00 - [42] Originally by: FreeHansjeToo Now let's try again: why would you want to fly a BC instead of a BS? Speed? There is not much difference there. There is a LOT of difference elsewhere: CAP, Poweroutput and Armor/Shield. If you can't see the reason to, then just keep flying in battleships. Nos - Time for a Change
Ice Conch	Posted - 2007.01.20 01:03:00 - [43] t2 highs and lows are necessary
Lumberjackhammer Caldari Dodge this inc Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:29:00 - [44] drake - T2 modules all the way (almost, not shield pwer relays) its costs me about...7x12mill (launchers) 2x12(bcs) 45 for the ship,,,,another 150 mill for shield recharge rigs,,,and 2 extenders, 2 rechargers, 2 invulvs,,,,,yep it costs ALOT (altho, I bought alot of the stuff some time ago, when rigs still sold for 50-55 mill, and launcher were down on 8 mill)
FreeHansjeToo	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:21:00 - [45] Quote: If you can't see the reason to, then just keep flying in battleships Weak, very weak.
Kuno Hida	Posted - 2007.01.20 21:21:00 - [46] My rigs are t1.... Drake, T2 across the board. Its lovely. I'll cry when it gets blown up, and go dust off a Ferox for a while. Either of my BS cost more than this drake...but my guns are t1 mostly. Suck it up and go rat some more. Its worth it.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.01.20 21:28:00 - [47] Originally by: FreeHansjeToo Quote: If you can't see the reason to, then just keep flying in battleships Weak, very weak. FreeHansjeToo, You have been coming across as a Troll, while I am hoping that is not your intention, you have contributed very little to explain your point. Why do you think a BC isn't a good as a BS? Here are my reasons I think a BC, the Drake in this case, is better then a BS, Raven in this case. - Cost, right off the bat a Raven will cost you more ISK to buy over a Drake. - Time, the skills needed to get into a Raven take longer then getting into a Drake. - Fittings, Raven H:8 (6 Launchers), M:6, L:5 Drake H:8 (7 Launchers) M:6, L:4. Minus 1 low, the Drake has the exact same number of fitting slots. It has 8 highs, just like the Raven, The biggest difference is what you can fit on a Raven (Heavy gear). But The Drake gives you amazing selection of options on how to fit it, filling many different roles. Take, Anti-Frigate using assault launchers, Anti-Cruiser using heavy launchers, Anti-HAC using heavy assault launchers, for example. - Bonuses, The Drake has tank bonuses, where the Raven has gank bonuses. In REV tank has shown to be king, if you can out tank your target, you will win. In PVE, Tank is god, if you can shrug off the damage you take, the missions will be a lot easier. - Passive tank-ability, Thanks to the fact the Drake has the amazing Bonuses to it's tank, having BC 4-5 allows you to devote some mids to LSEIIs and shield rechargers, while still having great base Resists. Coupled with Purger rigs I have been able to create Fully passive tanks on the Drake that have more HP regen a second then you could get with a Gist X-Type XLarge booster with a 30% amp. Nos immune anyone? -Gang Assist Modules, Fitting warfare links allows you to contribute more to the fleet then just more firepower. With the right skills, the bonuses you can give to the fleet can give you a huge advantage. -Speed, ItÆs base speed may only be 30m/s faster then the Raven, but fit a AB or MWD and you can go 1200+ m/s with the right skills and gear. - Versatility, A Drake can run level 1Æs û 4Æs very fast and effectively, act as support to a fleet (warfare links), solo PVP, act as a tackler, Transport Cargoà While the Raven can do a all the same things, the Drake does most of them faster and cheaper. I could keep going but I think you get the general Idea. So please build an argument to counter my points if you would like to continue stating that a BS is better why bother with a BC. I am not flaming you in any way, I would just like to see your reasons. So please don't bring a jerry can to your next post. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.20 21:41:00 - [48] My mission running drake is a mix of T2 and quality named gear. The PvP snipeing Ferox I have is pure T2 except for the drones.
FreeHansjeToo	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:13:00 - [49] Majin82, If you counter questions and remarks with an answer as you gave, you will get remarks like my last 1, trollish or nor. I do not think I need to 'explain' anything, since I was asking a question. However, since your attitude irks me, here we go: First of all, as the original OP the question was stated in general, not for specific ships. You, sir, take 2 ships and start comparing, I wonder why. I compared too, Myrmadon vs Dominix, and I find the Myrm lacking in this comparison. I think this invalidates a lot of your points, bet let's get over some. Cost: difference in price between Myrm and Domi is 15-20 mil. Negligible, in my eyes, I hope I don't need to explain that. Time: as I stated in a previous post in this thread, learning BC is a CHOICE. You don't NEED to learn BC before entering another ship class. BC is only for BC, and maybe muchmuchmuch later Command ships. Fittings: BS usually has more fittings than BC. Maybe there are exceptions, they are just that. Again, you compare specific ships. Bonuses: again, ship specific. If I compare Myrm against Domi, the Myrm fails for me, very much so. Your next remarks are all for the specific ships you mentioned, I'll not go into that. Exception: speed. You maybe right about that, but slap on an AB and the rest on a BS and see the speed difference there... My remarks in previous posting you have not countered. More armor, more CAP, which enables you to fit LAR's instead of MAR's. In a damage-rich environment a BC has to leave very fast, I noticed, despite the repair bonus usually on a BC. Since I use suckers many times a BC just does not cut it. In this thread I read 1 advantage a BC has over BS: signature. That's the only thing sofar, wth versatility, where BC beats BS. Not enough for me.
Linavin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:37:00 - [50] Personally, all the sky high module prices makes me wanting to fly HAC's again. The price difference between a tech II BC and an HAC is smaller than ever before ---
Sgt Blade Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:02:00 - [51] fully t2 fitted for me, got faction stuffs on my bc's somwhere.... Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:43:00 - [52] everything i can get thats t2 :) guns, ammo, AB, tank. --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
Kashele	Posted - 2007.01.22 10:23:00 - [53] Originally by: FreeHansjeToo Time: as I stated in a previous post in this thread, learning BC is a CHOICE. You don't NEED to learn BC before entering another ship class. BC is only for BC, and maybe muchmuchmuch later Command ships. But BC gets you EVERY race's BC, as long as you have the cruiser prerequisites (which you'd need anyway for the race-specific battleship). So training battlecruiser isn't that valuable for the very race-specific character. However, it very much becomes a stepping stone for the character moving on to another race's ships. With a mediocum of training, you can make yourself quite happy in another race's BC while waiting for the cruiser and battleship skills you consider essential to catch up. The time difference becomes even more evident if you add training large weapon specialization into the mix.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:10:00 - [54] In group combat, battleships are usually the scrambled and primary called ones. That is enough reson for me to use a BC. :) But i do have my tempest to snipe a few things where my cane can't reach If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Kay Rissa The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:24:00 - [55] i have 2 characters: 1 caldary, 2nd Ammar/gallente.... U know what, i stoped flying caldary, because prices of t2 modules r insane. To fit drake with all t2 modules would cost more then 150 mils... To fit brutix/mirmidom cost 30-40 mils... EOS/astarte cost 98/120 mils or so, fitting also around 30-40 mils...nighhawk - 180-200 mils + 150mils for fitting... insane Proud member of the Priory ps: i dont like to kill innocent ppl, so if i killed u, u rnt innocent
Felinuszzz Caldari TunDraGon	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:24:00 - [56] Edited by: Felinuszzz on 22/01/2007 11:23:57 What's the whine about. Tech 2 is, in my opinion, the barebones lowest quality of fitting you should be using on any ship that you are planning on fighting others in. Yes, a Hurricane costs 50M, fittings cost another 40M-60M (at least the way I fit mine anyways). What's the problem. Unless you're dying daily and not getting any kills in the process, this should be affordeable and sustaineable from kill loot. If you cannot afford to go PvPing in a full t2/best named battlecruiser, you should do it in a cruiser instead. Look at it this way; the additional 15M for a 90% webber can (and will) save your life. The named MWD can (and will) save your life. Same with every high-priced fitting. They all make your ship more surviveable and harder to lose. The way I do it, I just spend all my ISK on a big stockpile of fittings. I keep my wallet thin, and my hanger crowded with best named/tech 2 stuff that I use. I'm starting to buy faction fittings now, and really, 40M-150M a piece, it is still affordeable if you are careful with your money and loot. ---------
Sherpondeldey Minmatar SolaR KillerS	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:45:00 - [57] i've got a new 'cane, had a couple of kills and it and then switched to autopest with t1 'scout' autocannons slots layout is almost the same but 6x220 t2 are like 70 times more expensive then 6xdual 425 'scout'. Heavy dim nosferatu is at least twice cheeper than medium dim nos. Large repairers t2 are more expensive then medium but who cares?! i had saved 40mil in my high slots
FreeHansjeToo	Posted - 2007.01.22 12:15:00 - [58] Quote: But BC gets you EVERY race's BC, Good point, can't argue that. Quote: If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! With such a slogan, why consider a BC...
The Hanz Caldari Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris	Posted - 2007.01.23 00:32:00 - [59] BC's are made of "win."
FreeHansjeToo	Posted - 2007.01.23 06:39:00 - [60] Quote: BC's are made of "win." ??? Care to explain?

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