EVE Search - Regarding recent security concerns.

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Regarding recent security concerns.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:21:00 - [1] Just hoping to create a valid thread on this topic here so please keep it clean everyone. The discussion for those who missed it is: Certain alliances ask for screenshots of login names to try to catch lazy people who lie about how many accounts they have. It doesn't matter who does it I just want this thread to be about informing players that you should not do this as it is dangerous for you to do so. Never give out your account names to another player under any circumstances. It might not sound dangerous because it's not the same as a password but it is indeed VERY dangerous to do so. I would also like to request or say it would be "nice of CCP" to make a general announcement saying this is a no-no because it is dangerous and remind players not to do this sort of thing. Account hacking is on the rise due to increased visibility of this industry caused by WoW. Thus I think increased awareness is important.
Valan	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:30:00 - [2] I wouldn't have considered it a grey area. You should not give login names at all, what so ever. Recent posts by CCP staff saying that it was a grey area requires clarification by a senior CCP staff member. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:30:00 - [3] I can't believe that thread got locked, considering how important account security was to the Dev's with the recent patch, and not storing your password any longer. Hopefully ISD shrinks a little on the back that. As far as I can see, if the original author was truthful in his representations of events, it demonstrates an extremely clear case of EULA violation. You'll get my account name when you pry my cold dead hand off of it. Do not believe it is not a security hole. Your security is more than halved if you release your account name to anybody experienced at circumventing security systems. No alliance is worth that risk. You can't fly safe, if your account isn't. CCP are swift to warn certain known EULA violators, macro users, when a nuisance macro program is released. I would hope to see an equally well publicised ruling, nay reminder, on this very serious security problem for non EULA violators very very quickly. I also anticipate being dissappointed. If your sig is the best thing you've posted, stop posting.
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:33:00 - [4] We don't need to discuss the other threads really. All that needs to be said is that ISD has said something which is confusing and that a clear open response needs to be given on the forums and people should not need to petition a gm to get the answer to this as everyone needs to know.
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:45:00 - [5] I've seen the orginal post. Would love to see a GM post on this issue. ISD. I'd learn whats Black, White and gray.. you may not speak with any kind of power on the forums, but your normaly the first replys we get on issues. Known Issues & Workarounds - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to.

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:48:00 - [6] Quote: Recent posts by CCP staff saying that it was a grey area requires clarification by a senior CCP staff member. I am not CCP staff, and I did say petition this to the GMs. Keep this thread clear of the flaming of alliances and players which occurred in the previous thread. Originally by: Sorela We don't need to discuss the other threads really. All that needs to be said is that ISD has said something which is confusing and that a clear open response needs to be given on the forums and people should not need to petition a gm to get the answer to this as everyone needs to know. It maybe confusing, but to clear it up, ill say again. The best reponse you will receive is from the GMs by petitioning. ___ Email Us \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:50:00 - [7] I am not sure what you are on about. Asking for the login screen is a common practice to prevent alt abuse. And by login screens it means "character login screen", not "account login screen". And last i checked, the character login screen does not display your account name anywhere, just your alts in-game names. So what's the "security problem"? Am i missing something? =================================== Above comments are my personal views Originally by: Oveur Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:51:00 - [8] Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 18/01/2007 21:50:42 AFAIK, ISD can't say anything about whether is IS or IS NOT an exploit which is exactly what the guy did. Ya'll just flamed him by mixing his words around so that they sounded like he was making an unclear statement. ISD said, Quote: If you think this is a problem then please petition the GMs. AFAIK I know this is standard policy with many alliances. I'm not sure if this is a EULA violation or not And some person said Quote: And to the ISD chap, AFAIK doesn't exactly cut it. In circumstances like this you either know the right answer or you stay out of it. Speculation on the part of someone who many may deem to be official will just confuse matters more. I understand your trying to help, but dont flame -Eldo ~~~~~~~~~ Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it.

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:51:00 - [9] Originally by: hydraSlav I am not sure what you are on about. Asking for the login screen is a common practice to prevent alt abuse. And by login screens it means "character login screen", not "account login screen". And last i checked, the character login screen does not display your account name anywhere, just your alts in-game names. So what's the "security problem"? Am i missing something? Some alliances want account and character - that's where the problem exists. ___ Email Us \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.01.18 21:55:00 - [10] Originally by: hydraSlav Am i missing something? I think yes. From what I read of that previous thread, it was extremely clear they were asking for the login screen, with the drop down box shown, so they could examine how many accounts you held. Mine has six. Yes six. And five of them aren't mine. So how any Alliance thinks I should compromise 5 of my friends accounts for their benefit I don't know. Plus they would reject my application when I told them I didn't have the passwords so could not show them 5 other character screens. So it's a lose/lose situation for some applicants. I give my account name, and 5 other account names away and get rejected. Sounds like an intensely bad deal trying to join an alliance these days. They can keep 0.0, it's not worth the asking price. If your sig is the best thing you've posted, stop posting.

Jiekon	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:06:00 - [11] I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not. CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands. You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance. ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting Guides for new Revelations Features ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

Anator Namon	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:16:00 - [12] Considering how easy it is to fake it, I am confused. Additionally, the request for Harddrive screenshots is hilarious. Only the Admin of my computer can see everything...
Xaroth Brook Minmatar Doomcraft	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:23:00 - [13] asking for such specific details is stupid, everybody knows that info can be faked no problemo.. all it takes is a bit of time and some good coughdownloadscough Say no to giving your account info. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook Brainiac of Doomcraft
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:25:00 - [14] Edited by: Gaven Blands on 18/01/2007 22:23:52 EDIT: Typo fixed. I don't like typos on sensible threads. Thank you Jiekon. I also had another look at the EULA, and got this bit:- "You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the login name or --character name-- of anyone else." Does that mean even asking for screenshots of the character login screen is disallowed. I would think yes, but I also think it needs clarification. If your sig is the best thing you've posted, stop posting.
Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Gaven Blands Thank you Jiekon. I also had another look at the EULA, and got this bit:- "You may not obtain, attempt to obtain, use or attempt to use the login name or --character name-- of anyone else." You used his name, ooh you're in trouble!!! -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO
Tremitry Darkstar Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not. CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands. You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance. Speaking as someone with a strong programming and networking background, I look forward to the official word as this is a major concern. I am a relatively new member and will likely be looking to join a "major" corporation. If I may be so bold, I am expecting to see a pretty clear announcement that the "username" and other identity-related parts of the EULA will be enforced much more heavily in the future. -Tremitry Darkstar
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:35:00 - [17] Hiow does seeing someones account logon screen show their numbe of accounts? I've got 3 seperate installs that only show 1 account name each in the box... -----
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:36:00 - [18] Originally by: Kylania You used his name, ooh you're in trouble!!! Yeah, it does read a little bit peculiarly I agree. Kylania. Oops! I did it again! I obtained your name and used it! Kylania. ooo! Somebody Spank Me! If your sig is the best thing you've posted, stop posting.
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:39:00 - [19] This whole alts and spies thing is getting out of hand. Asking for login screenshots should never have been requested reguardless of anything. Even char screenshots might be to much. Personlly I always considered the best way to avoid spies and alts was to consider their actions, rather then requiring use of screenshots (which a serous spy would have forged long before). This is just a sad way for some alliances and corps who just "hire anyone" and lazy with reguards to keeping tabs on their memberbase to try and weed out spies.
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:41:00 - [20] Edited by: Sorela on 18/01/2007 22:39:30 Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO AFAIK, ISD can't say anything about whether is IS or IS NOT an exploit which is exactly what the guy did. Ya'll just flamed him by mixing his words around so that they sounded like he was making an unclear statement. That's why I said I wanted everyone to keep it clean. It's not like ISD has to know the answer to this. I agree that there is nothing wrong with him not knowing. That means the situation is still unanswered though and while I respect that "petition a GM" is the proper course of action for finding out the answer the aim of this thread is to get the GM's in here on the boards saying "don't do this anymore" and to warn people. That doesn't mean people need to flame Eldo though. Thanks Jiekon for responding at least we know it's going to be looked at and that was all that I really cared about.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:42:00 - [21] Clear cache. ir reset the log in drop box too. I have only 1 account, truly officer, how can you dubt it?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:49:00 - [22] Well how can you prove that X applicant isn't a spy for X corp trying to spy on X corp/alliance ? Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -ISD Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Kerushi Caldari BIG	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:53:00 - [23] i only have 1 account as i use 4 seperate directories and those other 3 are on a different hdd BIG Forum \| Deal \| Bank
Anator Namon	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:56:00 - [24] Eh, on the harddrive thing. If you are Admin you can make things not appear to whoever you don't want them to appear to.
Valan	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Eldo Davip Quote: Recent posts by CCP staff saying that it was a grey area requires clarification by a senior CCP staff member. I am not CCP staff, and I did say petition this to the GMs. Apologies forum representative :) /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Opai McTwist Amarr The Sell Swords	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:02:00 - [26] I was gonna flame. I thought better of it. I'm only going to say that people have very high opinions of themselves and the causes they take up... demanding this, expecting that. As far as I'm concerned, CCP has stated time and again that it is a player's responsibility to keep their account information secret. I wonder how some of the security-minded people that are so up in arms about their account information feel about all the account and character sales that go on? What about those accounts? Do you lecture the account sales people and demand a GM response in those forums as well? Account security is important, and knowing this, CCP has made appropriate statements to that effect. I am left wondering if, everytime this comes up, will there be "security-minded" people that demand responses from the GMs or CCP staff every time personal account information is mentioned? Has anyone considered how long EVE has been running? And wondered if this issue has ever come up before, or do people assume (because we humans are apt to do this simplification all the time) that since this is the first they read of it, that CCP has *NEVER* had to deal with this before. Ok so I may have waxed flame-y at the end there... I just think its pretty damn rude to demand anything from CCP without due diligence first.
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not. CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands. You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance. I have already set my account to expire at the end of this cycle over this and some other issues. However a CCP DEV response on this issue quashing the practice would go a LONG way to making me reconsider. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Opai McTwist I was gonna flame. I thought better of it. I'm only going to say that people have very high opinions of themselves and the causes they take up... demanding this, expecting that. As far as I'm concerned, CCP has stated time and again that it is a player's responsibility to keep their account information secret. I wonder how some of the security-minded people that are so up in arms about their account information feel about all the account and character sales that go on? What about those accounts? Do you lecture the account sales people and demand a GM response in those forums as well? Account security is important, and knowing this, CCP has made appropriate statements to that effect. I am left wondering if, everytime this comes up, will there be "security-minded" people that demand responses from the GMs or CCP staff every time personal account information is mentioned? Has anyone considered how long EVE has been running? And wondered if this issue has ever come up before, or do people assume (because we humans are apt to do this simplification all the time) that since this is the first they read of it, that CCP has *NEVER* had to deal with this before. Ok so I may have waxed flame-y at the end there... I just think its pretty damn rude to demand anything from CCP without due diligence first. Account sales are illegal and should be punished. Character sales are legal and fine, and have a very specific EULA legal process to use. Take a look at the bottom of the account info screen for more on this. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Opai McTwist Amarr The Sell Swords	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:12:00 - [29] Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not. CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands. You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance. I have already set my account to expire at the end of this cycle over this and some other issues. However a CCP DEV response on this issue quashing the practice would go a LONG way to making me reconsider. First to ask! Can I have your stuff?
Jashan T'Okara	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:15:00 - [30] I think that the whole paranoia in-game is reaching an unhealthy level. I understand that being cautious of new recruits is a good thing, and even getting a screenshot of the character selection screen would make sense. But screenshots of the login screen and hard drive prove nothing. In addition to all this, getting those screenshots in no way will protect you from a dedicated corp thief/spy, as they will just fake the stuff. I would never give out my login info or anything so personal as a screenshot of my harddrive contents to gain membership of a corp, no matter how good the corp. And personally, would wonder about the mentality of a corp/alliance which goes to such lengths of paranoia in order to 'protect' themselves, and would not want to put my lot in with that crowd. Onoez!! I posterd with an ALT!??!!???
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:16:00 - [31] Edited by: Gaven Blands on 18/01/2007 23:16:19 Opai, I see where you are coming from. But Eve is a game for the general public, and many of them are not aware of things like account security issues, EULA's, accepted practises and so on. This whole issue reminds me of when my bank first rang me and insisted that I answer security questions to validate who I was. When I refused and immediately rang them to complain at this practice they simply could not understand what my or anybody else's problem could possibly be. The moment giving out secure information to persons unknown, on request, becomes common practice, then the sooner people who would abuse that system are going to start abusing it. If somebody were to create an Alliance, specifially to being farming Account names and character names, it is likely they will be able to hijack a few accounts a week. Because the sorts of people who fall for giving out that information are not the sort of people who make secure passwords. True, we do have a responsibility to maintain the confidentiality of our own accounts. CCP have a responsibility too. Additionally, we all have a moral responsibility to ensure that people who are not aware of their responsibility are made aware of it. And that is what I believe is happening in these threads tonight. I see it as a good thing for everybody. EDIT: The sooner I learn to spell "practice" the better. If your sig is the best thing you've posted, stop posting.
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:25:00 - [32] Originally by: Jashan T'Okara I think that the whole paranoia in-game is reaching an unhealthy level. I understand that being cautious of new recruits is a good thing, and even getting a screenshot of the character selection screen would make sense. But screenshots of the login screen and hard drive prove nothing. In addition to all this, getting those screenshots in no way will protect you from a dedicated corp thief/spy, as they will just fake the stuff. I would never give out my login info or anything so personal as a screenshot of my harddrive contents to gain membership of a corp, no matter how good the corp. And personally, would wonder about the mentality of a corp/alliance which goes to such lengths of paranoia in order to 'protect' themselves, and would not want to put my lot in with that crowd. This is what's going to continue to happen (the paranoia) until CCP starts to tighten restrictions on some of the activities infiltrationwise that should have never been allowed in the first place IMHO. I actually was just talking about this with a friend ingame and he made the observation that for all the speculation about BoB taking all 0.0 and killing EvE, paranoia and alliances shutting almost all recruiting down because of spies probably have a better chance. Without new blood having a place to go, (for those who wish to) the experience will stagnate and less newcomers will stay, and without infusions of fresh blood into Corps and alliances, they will begin to have troubles (some of them). So where I sit on it corp thieving and spying should probably right about now begin to have limits, to help ease up on the paranoia.
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:30:00 - [33] Originally by: Opai McTwist Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not. CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands. You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance. I have already set my account to expire at the end of this cycle over this and some other issues. However a CCP DEV response on this issue quashing the practice would go a LONG way to making me reconsider. First to ask! Can I have your stuff? No. You can however, blow it out y... you know what, never mind. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Tara Sitano	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Venkul Mul Clear cache. ir reset the log in drop box too. I have only 1 account, truly officer, how can you dubt it? change username=xxx in the prefs.ini, take screenshot, change it back
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.19 00:03:00 - [35] sharing any form of account details is foolish any alliance that trusts a screen shot of accout details is also foolish because its so easily gotten around Originally by: Jashan T'Okara I think that the whole paranoia in-game is reaching an unhealthy level. I understand that being cautious of new recruits is a good thing, and even getting a screenshot of the character selection screen would make sense. But screenshots of the login screen and hard drive prove nothing. In addition to all this, getting those screenshots in no way will protect you from a dedicated corp thief/spy, as they will just fake the stuff. he pretty much said it its party ccps fault for allowing this kind of sillyness to go on but i do see that in some way it adds something to the game,however there is no test that can be trusted to prevent it
Opai McTwist Amarr The Sell Swords	Posted - 2007.01.19 00:07:00 - [36] Gaven: A sensible reply gets a sensible answer. I'll not deny that security is an issue that most of the public know little about. I agree that security needs to be referred to. It wouldn't be bad if people took to heart that line in the EULA about giving out account information. Seeing as how (in the original thread) the OP knew this was an issue and did not give out their account, I'm curious as to where people find the reason to act indignant toward CCP, make claims against CCP, and twist the words of a volunteer. What I also don't understand is the attitude that some people adopt. Flaming is the easy choice here. Claiming that CCP has no interest in paying attention to this incident, demanding CCP warn specific players and alliances, flaming ISD, threatening to cancel accounts, and generally acting like spoiled children accomplishes nothing. Nothing at all except to incite sods like myself to make outrageous counter-claims. (Hi Sniper, If you just jettison your stuff in jetcans when you leave, that'd work best. Rens? Oursalaert? Can I have your login name? kthnxbye ) I'm not sure that it serves any good to demand that CCP remind folks exactly what their responsibilities are and what CCP is liable for. It is one thing to just say, as a player, that there are dangers with the practice. It is quite another believing that CCP, the corporation, needs to validate what this person is already telling us. I don't disagree with the idea that giving out account names could lead to having your account hacked. What I do disagree with is how some people go about saying it.
Opai McTwist Amarr The Sell Swords	Posted - 2007.01.19 00:12:00 - [37] Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Opai McTwist Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not. CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands. You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance. I have already set my account to expire at the end of this cycle over this and some other issues. However a CCP DEV response on this issue quashing the practice would go a LONG way to making me reconsider. First to ask! Can I have your stuff? No. You can however, blow it out y... you know what, never mind. With such a love note, how can I not respond?? Sniper. You quote a dev response... and then demand another dev response. Heh. Not only quote a dev response... but a response that actually advises people NOT to give out their account information... in essence, answering your demand. And then you go all EMO and tell everyone that you're quitting. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Can I have your stuff? Pwetty pwease?
Allantia FW Inc Kith of Venal	Posted - 2007.01.19 00:15:00 - [38] Quote: The discussion for those who missed it is: Certain alliances ask for screenshots of login names to try to catch lazy people who lie about how many accounts they have. If that's the case, the aforementioned alliances are pretty stupid. I have 2 accounts, and I can show you login screens all day with only 1 account name and without going to any special effort.
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 00:18:00 - [39] Edited by: Stitcher on 19/01/2007 00:15:26 Having done some recruitment for my corp and alliance myself in the past, I feel I should clear this up. when people ask for your login screen, more often than not, what they want is THIS: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/SwitchbladeUK/example1.jpg As you can see, not a shred of important login information is present. It shows only my main, and two creation-level alts that I initially made for demoing the game to a friend and now retain purely because I can't be bothered to delete them. The only information present about my main is his corp, title, present location, sec status and wealth - most of which is publically available knowledge, and the rest of which is basically harmless. My login name and password are NOT present. This is not a foolproof method, nor was it ever meant to be. Thanks in part to this practice, most active spies in this game use alts that run on separate paid-for accounts where they can actually train skills up and slip past this security procedure. Obviously, those characters are NOT caught by this process. Nevertheless, it has helped out in the past, and I know of at least one corp that succesfully averted being infiltrated by a known corp thief after the player in question was dumb enough to post that page - with the name of his thieving alt clearly visible. If someone asks you for your login and password screen for security purposes, then what they really want to see is the number of accounts you hold. Just open the dropdown menu, and then censor out all the usernames, like so: http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/SwitchbladeUK/example2.jpg Anyone looking to recruit me would now know that: 1) I have only one active paid account 2) that account has three characters on it Again, the information can be faked - I might have two accounts, but only use the other one off my laptop, for example, but this can be considered a reasonable level of security to minimize the risk of infiltration As with CCP policy, don't give your username and password to anyone. If somebody asks for that information, tell them to go do something unspeakable with a scout drone, and go find somebody else to join. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Pellaeon DuGalle Caldari Deep Black Industries	Posted - 2007.01.19 01:18:00 - [40] But stitcher....clearing the cache will re-set the login name details. That way I can just make a backup of my cache, get a "clean" login, replace my cache, and BoB's your uncle. Or alliance as the case may be ------------------- "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible."
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.19 01:52:00 - [41] Originally by: Opai McTwist Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Opai McTwist Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Jiekon I will point kieron to this thread and he will decide if it deserves a general announcement or not. CCP has always encouraged people to keep their account details top secret, especially account usernames as it can be very dangerous if it were to fall into teh wrong hands. You really have to ask: Is it worth risking your account security to join this alliance? if the answer is no (which it should be) either fake it or forget the alliance. I have already set my account to expire at the end of this cycle over this and some other issues. However a CCP DEV response on this issue quashing the practice would go a LONG way to making me reconsider. First to ask! Can I have your stuff? No. You can however, blow it out y... you know what, never mind. With such a love note, how can I not respond?? Sniper. You quote a dev response... and then demand another dev response. Heh. Not only quote a dev response... but a response that actually advises people NOT to give out their account information... in essence, answering your demand. And then you go all EMO and tell everyone that you're quitting. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Can I have your stuff? Pwetty pwease? Even though you're a troll, I just have to say it's not a threat. My sub ends Feb 8, and if at that time at least ONE of the three issues that have made me make my decision isn't resolved, that'll be it. And my friends will have any stuff I give, not some asshats on the forum. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 01:57:00 - [42] like I say, it's not a foolproof, catch-all spy zapper. It's a basic security precaution designed to offer a first layer of defence. It is not a substitute for keeping your wits about you and being careful with who you trust - and as recent events with my own alliance show, sometimes the bad guys are just impossible to detect until it's too late to catch them, anyway. It's a sad fact that even the most security-conscious alliance in EVE most likely has at least one hostile spy installed that they would never suspect. The screenshot system is there to weed out the inept and the stupid. After all, if you're going to be infiltrated, you may as well insist on high quality spies. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.19 02:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Stitcher like I say, it's not a foolproof, catch-all spy zapper. It's a basic security precaution designed to offer a first layer of defence. It is not a substitute for keeping your wits about you and being careful with who you trust - and as recent events with my own alliance show, sometimes the bad guys are just impossible to detect until it's too late to catch them, anyway. It's a sad fact that even the most security-conscious alliance in EVE most likely has at least one hostile spy installed that they would never suspect. The screenshot system is there to weed out the inept and the stupid. After all, if you're going to be infiltrated, you may as well insist on high quality spies. Stitch, I can accept this is an unfortunate side effect of some of the things CCP has decided to allow in the game. I cannot accept that that makes it okay. If you had seen the chatlog as it was posted, you would see that the guy was asked for WAY too much information, and possibly security compromising info. Completely unacceptable.
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 02:14:00 - [44] Edited by: Stitcher on 19/01/2007 02:11:57 Originally by: Stitcher As with CCP policy, don't give your username and password to anyone. If somebody asks for that information, tell them to go do something unspeakable with a scout drone, and go find somebody else to join. yeah, 'nuff said I think. RE: Mr dude who's quitting - "Can I have your stuff" is pretty much the standard response to any announcement that a player intends to quit. You're just one of several thousand people who play this game, and you're quitting over a trivial quirk of player behaviour that the devs have no ability whatsoever to control? Newsflash: Nobody cares. You aren't making a statement by doing this at all. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.19 04:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 19/01/2007 02:11:57 Originally by: Stitcher As with CCP policy, don't give your username and password to anyone. If somebody asks for that information, tell them to go do something unspeakable with a scout drone, and go find somebody else to join. yeah, 'nuff said I think. RE: Mr dude who's quitting - "Can I have your stuff" is pretty much the standard response to any announcement that a player intends to quit. You're just one of several thousand people who play this game, and you're quitting over a trivial quirk of player behaviour that the devs have no ability whatsoever to control? Newsflash: Nobody cares. You aren't making a statement by doing this at all. Well, I wouldn't call it trivial, and apparently there are three(?) things bugging him, But I'm going to mention this again: This game seems to be simple schoolyard bully pvp combined with a forum of fire that is no different than any other video game forum (even your dreaded enemy WoW). So the trolling of the guy didn't surprise me in the least. His choice of word but I think he was right. Put it this way STILL looking for a another spaceship MMO And yes, if you find me one I like you CAN have my stuff, but you'll be sorely disappointed at the lack of stuff to have
Zarlak Caldari Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:22:00 - [46] Hopefully to clear confusion What they did NOT want from him (which WOULD be a UELA violation but isnt of any use to recruiters as my login name could be ilikeprettypinkpanties1988 but my charecter names completely different, this would not help the recruiters at all, that isnt my login name by the way) http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/donot.JPG what they DID want from him for good reasons so they can check if hes a spy or not or has alts in other alliances http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/do.JPG
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:26:00 - [47] People shouldn`t get 2 things confused. A screenshot of your characters is something else as a screenshot of you`r acount login name. As info is power. Alliances try all new sorts of way`s to get a benefit above the other to win a war or do maximum dmg. Therefore Alliances need to protect there assets. This has to be done for maximum security. There are allot of other way`s to check someone integrity but i will not go there. ->My Vids<- CCP= More skilz more moneh!
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.19 10:46:00 - [48] I don't see how CCP can rule its a EULA violation to ask for a screenshot of the account page on login. Its their own fault for allowing spying and similar things in the game. All Corps and Alliances are trying to do is protect themselves from spying, and yes, that can include pretty harsh measures, but the consequences for allowing a spy in can be pretty harsh as well. If the spying continues or even grows worse, I wouldn't be surprised if in a year some alliances will demand RL information, webcam interviews and such before admitting people.
ApaKaka Minmatar Fippel And Trixx	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:08:00 - [49] Originally by: Zarlak Hopefully to clear confusion what they DID want from him for good reasons so they can check if hes a spy or not or has alts in other alliances http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/do.JPG Wrong! I talked to this guy last night while he was talking to the LV recruiter. He posted screenshots and chatlogs of everything he had provided to the guy, and the guy did IN FACT ask him for a screenshot of the Eve login screen, with account and password box showing. He also quite definetly did send the character screen and assorted info to the LV guy, but refused to send him the login account-screen and got upset - to which the LV recruiter responded something like "I'll make sure no alliance ever accepts you anywhere" Arrogance is your worst enemy.
Stormhold FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:10:00 - [50] Edited by: Stormhold on 19/01/2007 11:06:35 I got to agree with some posters. If someone asks you to donate all your belongings to him to join his club, you can say no. If a corp asks you for something you feel you can't give just say no. As simple as that.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:50:00 - [51] The original thread was closed or deleted? And if it still exist, someone has a link? I would like to see the original discussion.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:02:00 - [52] Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/01/2007 12:01:33 Originally by: Venkul Mul Clear cache. ir reset the log in drop box too. I have only 1 account, truly officer, how can you dubt it? Indeed, I you can let it show anything you want just by clearing cache and/or using notepad, I think. So what's the point ? ______________ need new sig
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:04:00 - [53] Edited by: Tiny Tove on 19/01/2007 12:02:30 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=462042 There are some points to be made: 1. It was locked by ISD because somebody hurt their feelings, which is less important than account security, it seems. 2. The chatlogs that CLEARLY showed LV asking directly for account information having not been satisfied that the character information was enough have been snipped. 3. LV now have free license in this thread to claim it never happened. It was low enough that they did do it, and now to lie about it is just disgusting. The old thread is nearly useless thanks to ISD rules and intervention. Section 6. No Forum User May Upset CCP, It's Representatives, Or Large Influential Groups Of PAYING Account Holders. EDITTING for linky
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:10:00 - [54] Huh, this is quite the witchhunt! This is what I believe; Account names is nothing to be kept secret, the password is the thing that shoulders the responsability of your security. Compare this with emails where usually the email is also the account name. Inboxes can contain a lot of sensitive information, with more weight than that of a game. An account name can't be more public than this. Although having a non-public account name adds to the security it should only be seen as a bonus on top of the security of your very long and random password. If your password is crap, your security is crap. Three more things; You cannot change account name if it becomes "compromised". There are probably a lot of players with the same account name as character name. And with so many users you can guess account names just by chosing some random words, like arnold, sunflare, apache etc (sorry goes out to those users for revealing their secret accountnames!). Meh, carry on with the witchhunt :p ------ Simply by pulling on both ends, Chuck Norris can strech diamonds back into coal.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:18:00 - [55] This is a game. The paranoya to the extent of forcing players to screenshot their account information and anything outside of game is unhealthy. I will never screenshot anything. If that means I can never fight in alliances fine. I will wait for CCP to put in NPC faction fights, or take a leave from the game until they do. Fact is that anyone with a head about security can't play in alliances. You have to be quite stupid to meet the requirements of alliances that put your accounts in danger. Sad but true. I wonder if alliance leaders ever make it outside and see the sun. From these requests they seem like paranoid freaks of nature to me. They probably accuse the mailman of stealing their air. Anti-social gameplay FTL. Someone needed to say it. Flame me if you must.
ApaKaka Minmatar Fippel And Trixx	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Huh, this is quite the witchhunt! I think the original concern is that some alliances seem to be gearing towards this practise. (Or maybe it was just this recruiter, who knows) With it being potentially security-breaching and foremostly against the EULA, as well as being pretty pointless as it is easily modified, it's not strange that the OP in the other thread was upset. Alliances should really take a step back and think about what they require of people to be part of their crew. There are other ways to insure loyalty - out of alliance starter corps for example, or invites by referral from already trusted corpmates.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:24:00 - [57] Originally by: Opai McTwist Seeing as how (in the original thread) the OP knew this was an issue and did not give out their account, I'm curious as to where people find the reason to act indignant toward CCP, make claims against CCP, and twist the words of a volunteer. Did you ignore the number of people claiming that giving out your account name is not a big issue? Seriously, a general warning would not be a bad thing, and banning anyone asking for it on second offence would be a smart move too. Originally by: Opai McTwist I'm not sure that it serves any good to demand that CCP remind folks exactly what their responsibilities are and what CCP is liable for. It is one thing to just say, as a player, that there are dangers with the practice. It is quite another believing that CCP, the corporation, needs to validate what this person is already telling us. I suggest reading the EULA, if you find any passage that points out CCP acknowledges any responsibility whatsoever, please point it out to me.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:25:00 - [58] Originally by: Kate Nexus This is a game. The paranoya to the extent of forcing players to screenshot their account information and anything outside of game is unhealthy. I will never screenshot anything. If that means I can never fight in alliances fine. I will wait for CCP to put in NPC faction fights, or take a leave from the game until they do. Fact is that anyone with a head about security can't play in alliances. You have to be quite stupid to meet the requirements of alliances that put your accounts in danger. Sad but true. I wonder if alliance leaders ever make it outside and see the sun. From these requests they seem like paranoid freaks of nature to me. They probably accuse the mailman of stealing their air. Anti-social gameplay FTL. Someone needed to say it. Flame me if you must. Do you really think people ask this kind of information just for the hell of it? Check what kind of damage well-placed spies can do to a corp or an alliance, and what kind of damage HAS been done by these kinds of practices. Then tell me that there is no reason to be very cautious. CCP allows spying, fine. But then they can't go about and disabling some of the counterintelligence/security efforts people undertake to stop spies.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:28:00 - [59] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 19/01/2007 12:26:12 Originally by: Malachon Draco But then they can't go about and disabling some of the counterintelligence/security efforts people undertake to stop spies. Doesnt matter. It has no place in gameplay. Its antisocial and this is why 99% of the playerbase are not in 0.0 and are not in alliances. If anyone tries to join you want screenshots of their brains. Omgz a spy might tell someone about a gate youve been camping for 20 hours straight, you might have to get some sleep! Oh no! Call to arms, a noob corp pilots just went to an empty system we never use 20 jumps away, we need to camp them for 4 hours! Puleaaaaase
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:39:00 - [60] Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/01/2007 12:44:24 Originally by: Kate Nexus Doesnt matter. It has no place in gameplay. Its antisocial and this is why 99% of the playerbase are not in 0.0 and are not in alliances. If anyone tries to join you want screenshots of their brains. Omgz a spy might tell someone about a gate youve been camping for 20 hours straight, you might have to get some sleep! Oh no! Call to arms, a noob corp pilots just went to an empty system we never use 20 jumps away, we need to camp them for 4 hours! Puleaaaaase Spies are a big issue. They post internal forum stuff and infiltrate the teamspeak. Especially on teamspeak it really sux, if the enemy reacts to every tactical move the fleetcommand plans to do. That's why covert ops pilots are often in extra-channels. Almost every time, when we tried to pick targets that were of the main fleet in 1v- in the last days and called the target openly in TS, the target or fleet warped away, before we went there. If a covert pilot reports: 'Ok, I am 170km above the station. Warp to me. Blabla is there unaligned, shoot him first.', you think: 'Nice, now the enemy knows our primary and where we land, useless !' I wanted already to propose to kick all pilots from the fleet and teamspeak channel, who don't have some killmail record on the killboards that shows that they are killing and getting killed by the enemy. Don't know if that would have made a change though. ______________ need new sig
Zarlak Caldari Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:48:00 - [61] Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 19/01/2007 12:26:12 Originally by: Malachon Draco But then they can't go about and disabling some of the counterintelligence/security efforts people undertake to stop spies. Doesnt matter. It has no place in gameplay. Its antisocial and this is why 99% of the playerbase are not in 0.0 and are not in alliances. If anyone tries to join you want screenshots of their brains. Omgz a spy might tell someone about a gate youve been camping for 20 hours straight, you might have to get some sleep! Oh no! Call to arms, a noob corp pilots just went to an empty system we never use 20 jumps away, we need to camp them for 4 hours! Puleaaaaase considering your employment history is made up of industrial corps, try to join a 0.0 pvp alliance and youll see the damage that can be done by spies, you dont have the same concerns as us when your sat in a belt mining as we do when we have a fleet heading towards enemy space and they find out because theres a spy here, or that were gatecamping for a reason obviously because its boring but has to be done, and the enemy come in from a different gate and we miss them because of spies, or that our titan is compromised because of spies, or our forum talk and secrets and teamspeak information, so grow up before posting things like "its antisocial to be a bit concerned over your alliances assets or theyre operations"
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:49:00 - [62] internal forum, teamspeak? do you have a toilet at your computer too? im sorry I probably dont understand since I have a job and dont play 16 hours a day. maybe ill quit my job and start screenshotting my desktop and everyone I meet Ill accuse of being a spy since they obviously care sooo much about spying on me
Zarlak Caldari Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:51:00 - [63] Edited by: Zarlak on 19/01/2007 12:48:22 Originally by: Kate Nexus internal forum, teamspeak? do you have a toilet at your computer too? im sorry I probably dont understand since I have a job and dont play 16 hours a day. maybe ill quit my job and start screenshotting my desktop and everyone I meet Ill accuse of being a spy since they obviously care sooo much about spying on me why are you posting here? why the hell would i a.) have a toilet at my computer and b.) that have anything to do with every alliance in the game having a forum and using teamspeak, i also have a job aswell ill have you know, congratulations on you having one aswell, desktop screenshots arent asked for, and we havent accused anyone of being a spy its a security measure, for the love of god stop posting random garble on here you know nothing about
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:52:00 - [64] Originally by: Kate Nexus internal forum, teamspeak? do you have a toilet at your computer too? im sorry I probably dont understand since I have a job and dont play 16 hours a day. maybe ill quit my job and start screenshotting my desktop and everyone I meet Ill accuse of being a spy since they obviously care sooo much about spying on me Troll.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:52:00 - [65] Originally by: Zarlak considering your employment history is made up of industrial corps, try to join a 0.0 pvp alliance and youll see the damage that can be done by spies thats funny because I thought thats what we were discussing. try to join a paranoid antisocial group of players how? I wonder how many screenshots, references, and identification numbers ill need before they stop twitching and let me in your circular logic is just brilliant
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Ediz Daxx Troll. you're so observant. want a medal? ill just need your login screen before i can give it to you
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:55:00 - [67] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Ediz Daxx Troll. you're so observant. want a medal? ill just need your login screen before i can give it to you Like i said, troll.
Zarlak Caldari Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:56:00 - [68] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Zarlak considering your employment history is made up of industrial corps, try to join a 0.0 pvp alliance and youll see the damage that can be done by spies thats funny because I thought thats what we were discussing. try to join a paranoid antisocial group of players how? I wonder how many screenshots, references, and identification numbers ill need before they stop twitching and let me in your circular logic is just brilliant i think to be honest youd be rejected on attitude anyway, this is my last post directed at you as i dont wish for this thread to be locked either for flaming or arguments, your overexaggerations show how little you know about the subject so for in the interests of everybody who has something constructive to say about the subject and knows something about the issue let them reply on your behalf, also how is a hundreds of players alliance who regularly go on ops with each other antisocial? lolz
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:57:00 - [69] Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 19/01/2007 12:53:44 Originally by: Vito Parabellum Huh, this is quite the witchhunt! This is what I believe; Account names is nothing to be kept secret, the password is the thing that shoulders the responsability of your security. you go ahead and believe that mr i-am-not-a-security-expert. I handle security for a large network, and you are wrong. Quote: Compare this with emails where usually the email is also the account name. Inboxes can contain a lot of sensitive information, with more weight than that of a game. An account name can't be more public than this. true, but that is why my users email address cannot be used to login, nor can thier user name from the address be used, a prefix has to be added to designate which of the domains they belong to, before it will work (another layer of security that ccp cannnot use, thus the rule against sharing the login name...) Quote: Although having a non-public account name adds to the security it should only be seen as a bonus on top of the security of your very long and random password. If your password is crap, your security is crap. brute force and dictionary attacks are common because people with no knowledge of security use weak passwords, the same type that think giving out their login name is 'ok' Three more things; You cannot change account name if it becomes "compromised". There are probably a lot of players with the same account name as character name. And with so many users you can guess account names just by chosing some random words, like arnold, sunflare, apache etc (sorry goes out to those users for revealing their secret accountnames!). weak argument (and it is one point, not threee), using idiots as an example of why it is ok to passout your account name is as bad as being one of those idiots Quote: Meh, carry on with the witchhunt :p you can always post your login name in this thread, if you feel so assured of what you posted already...(didn't think so...)
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:00:00 - [70] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 19/01/2007 12:57:01 Originally by: Zarlak i think to be honest youd be rejected on attitude anyway I agree. My non-paranoid, logical, and highly social additude just doesn't go with the flow in ba-humbug "its a trap!" land.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:16:00 - [71] Concerning spies... I honestly don't blame CCP for allowing them. I blame all those people who think that having spies add such a rich new layer to gameplay. Really, forcing alliances to operate on a need to know basis, where individual pilots cannot be told what they are fighting and risking their ships for is such a great addition to PVP. Not.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:21:00 - [72] Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 19/01/2007 12:57:01 Originally by: Zarlak i think to be honest youd be rejected on attitude anyway I agree. My non-paranoid, logical, and highly social additude just doesn't go with the flow in ba-humbug "its a trap!" land. Hmmm, maybe just maybe you ought to go and live in 0.0 land for a while and experience a few wars to see how serious the issue of spies is. In anyway, it's a natural reaction to broken game design. Allow only one accout per person and one character per person and the ingame persona could be hold responsible, however due to design issues prevention now starts with the real people behind their characters. It's easy to steal, it's easy to spy, it's almost impossible to catch either other then through luck. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:21:00 - [73] Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/01/2007 13:19:36 Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 19/01/2007 12:57:01 Originally by: Zarlak i think to be honest youd be rejected on attitude anyway I agree. My non-paranoid, logical, and highly social additude just doesn't go with the flow in ba-humbug "its a trap!" land. You just don't know the alliance reality in EVE yet. Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Zarlak considering your employment history is made up of industrial corps, try to join a 0.0 pvp alliance and youll see the damage that can be done by spies thats funny because I thought thats what we were discussing. try to join a paranoid antisocial group of players how? I wonder how many screenshots, references, and identification numbers ill need before they stop twitching and let me in your circular logic is just brilliant Spies and players, who are brought into another alliance to cause damage like stealing corps and alliance assets, offlining poses etc. are a reality. Many people play this game quite seriously and some use all means they have to get an advantage. That's not just paranoia that's a truth. Maybe you don't read the corps & alliances forum often enough. Offlining poses by spies are a truth, ask Red Alliance, it was done to them. Stealing capital ships out of the pos by a spy happened, ask us and several others. Infiltrating the teamspeak is a truth, ask ASCN, BoB, LV, us.And several more evil incidents with spies and thieves that people let into their corps. Some 'brainiacs' even take the game so serious that they'd even start denial-of-service attacks against your TS server, although luckily that's rare, because most people aren't that stupid and know where to stop. Ok, those are not in your corp, but it shows quite clear, how far some people are willing to go. ______________ need new sig
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:23:00 - [74] Originally by: Zarlak Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Zarlak considering your employment history is made up of industrial corps, try to join a 0.0 pvp alliance and youll see the damage that can be done by spies thats funny because I thought thats what we were discussing. try to join a paranoid antisocial group of players how? I st post directed at you as i dont wish for this thread to be locked either for flaming or arguments, your overexaggerations show how little you know about the subject so for in the interests of everybody who has something constructive to say about the subject and knows something about the issue let them reply on your behalf, also how is a hundreds of players alliance who regularly go on ops with each other antisocial? lolz LV wants eula violating screenshots. LV can spin it how they want, it is still an eula violation. LV can be as social as they like internaly, but seem antisocial as heck to anyone on the outside, and as far as I am concerned, are trying to steal accounts based on their demand for login info. as many mentioned, that login screeny can be faked with ease, and if the spy is worth squat, they would ensure you got a bogus screeny...so what would be the point of asking for the screeny to start with???? paranoid...ya, LV is paranoid.., banned for it, no, just pity them for having ignorance and stupidity running wild through their midst CCP at fault for allowing spies, allowing the grief tactics some use, and allowing other completely unintended results form game mechanics (exploits)? yes, blame CCP because they are the ones that not only allow it, they encourage it. ...but a solution, one I know is easy to impliment, ccp can work with those who made the mistake and passed their info to the LV (or other 'dee'dee'dee' corps) paranoia machines, and change their login name. It is a field in a db and is not something that cannot be changed like the PK, which would not be the login name (oh I would hope CCP wouldn't make such a boneheaded mistake like that...), the login name is just in the db for reference...so it CAN be changed with out effecting the PK, which links all things related to the account/charactor... (yes I am a DBA) hope that helps you understand
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:39:00 - [75] Originally by: DrAtomic it's a natural reaction to broken game design. Normal people don't run around a game paranoid that everyone is going to take their lucky charms. 0.0 alliances are antisocial paranoid people and thats why 99% of the playerbase is in empire. You have to be stupid to screenshot your account info or anything else for a player in a video game. Make the connections and draw your own conclusions.
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:42:00 - [76] Originally by: Zarlak Hopefully to clear confusion What they did NOT want from him (which WOULD be a UELA violation but isnt of any use to recruiters as my login name could be ilikeprettypinkpanties1988 but my charecter names completely different, this would not help the recruiters at all, that isnt my login name by the way) http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/donot.JPG what they DID want from him for good reasons so they can check if hes a spy or not or has alts in other alliances http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/do.JPG Originally by: Garia666 People shouldn`t get 2 things confused. A screenshot of your characters is something else as a screenshot of you`r acount login name. Incorrect. I have seen the original thread with chatlog and he very much did violate the EULA. He starts by asking for the screenshot of character screen. When this is provided, he then demands the login screen with drop down box displayed. He further goes on to ask for a Directory snaphot of the guys hard drive. Read the original thread to which this applies.
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:42:00 - [77] Edited by: Ediz Daxx on 19/01/2007 13:38:31
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:45:00 - [78] Originally by: DrAtomic Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 19/01/2007 12:57:01 Originally by: Zarlak i think to be honest youd be rejected on attitude anyway I agree. My non-paranoid, logical, and highly social additude just doesn't go with the flow in ba-humbug "its a trap!" land. Hmmm, maybe just maybe you ought to go and live in 0.0 land for a while and experience a few wars to see how serious the issue of spies is. In anyway, it's a natural reaction to broken game design. Allow only one accout per person and one character per person and the ingame persona could be hold responsible, however due to design issues prevention now starts with the real people behind their characters. It's easy to steal, it's easy to spy, it's almost impossible to catch either other then through luck. Lived there, fought BoB for well over 3 months daily (mostly good fights, with a few lag fest that sucked for both sides), and know what spies can do...but that does not mean asking for login info should be allowed (you may notice I was on the losing end of that war with BoB). Spies will be part of the game since ccp allows it, but ccp does not allow the sharing of login info either, so asking for it is not acceptable. What CCP allows, and what CCP intended have a long history of being in conflict, and the loudest voice has always been those using the exploitive means to gain an advantage, while those vicimized...were mostly silent and just left the game. How many accounts has CCP lost due to their permissive attitude towards grief and metagaming grief tactics? Has CCP seen how other games handle things of this nature, and pondered if they did the same, would they also have millions of subscribers instead of less then 200k active accounts and only 30kish online? subscribers = $$$$$$$$ in CCP wallets.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:45:00 - [79] Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: DrAtomic it's a natural reaction to broken game design. Normal people don't run around a game paranoid that everyone is going to take their lucky charms. 0.0 alliances are antisocial paranoid people and thats why 99% of the playerbase is in empire. You have to be stupid to screenshot your account info or anything else for a player in a video game. Make the connections and draw your own conclusions. So you don't have any experience on the subject matter and yet you are ready to deal judgement? There is a word for that as well... ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:46:00 - [80] Originally by: Lyn30101 Originally by: Zarlak Hopefully to clear confusion What they did NOT want from him (which WOULD be a UELA violation but isnt of any use to recruiters as my login name could be ilikeprettypinkpanties1988 but my charecter names completely different, this would not help the recruiters at all, that isnt my login name by the way) http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/donot.JPG what they DID want from him for good reasons so they can check if hes a spy or not or has alts in other alliances http://www.freewebs.com/byrnes/do.JPG Originally by: Garia666 People shouldn`t get 2 things confused. A screenshot of your characters is something else as a screenshot of you`r acount login name. Incorrect. I have seen the original thread with chatlog and he very much did violate the EULA. He starts by asking for the screenshot of character screen. When this is provided, he then demands the login screen with drop down box displayed. He further goes on to ask for a Directory snaphot of the guys hard drive. Read the original thread to which this applies. I was part of that original thread, and yes, LV DID ASK FOR THE LOGIN INFO.
Dr CapitalShip Caldari Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:47:00 - [81] Alliances asking for login screenshots and accout screenshots are silly. Just use the test server to delete "sekrit" alts, and fake a logon name. To be honest - any spy worth their salt will do this anyway.
Menkaure Amarr Vanitas Corp.	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:48:00 - [82] Edited by: Menkaure on 19/01/2007 13:50:21 Just sticking my foot in for no apparent reason, I'd like to say that I generally agree that giving people usernames should never be done and LV are in the wrong for asking for it. However, I'm thinking that this Kate person (among others) is a complete and utter moron and his (her?) attitude towards others is the most repellant thing about this thread (as opposed to a eula violation). Hell, most 0.0 residents probably have a reason to petition him for harassment due to the comment "0.0 alliances are antisocial paranoid people and thats why 99% of the playerbase is in empire" Thats just damn slander.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:49:00 - [83] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Lyn30101 Incorrect. I have seen the original thread with chatlog and he very much did violate the EULA. He starts by asking for the screenshot of character screen. When this is provided, he then demands the login screen with drop down box displayed. He further goes on to ask for a Directory snaphot of the guys hard drive. Read the original thread to which this applies. I was part of that original thread, and yes, LV DID ASK FOR THE LOGIN INFO. But to be fair he only claimed that others even demand screenshots of harddrives.
Jags Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:52:00 - [84] Originally by: Bawldeux LV can be as social as they like internaly, but seem antisocial as heck to anyone on the outside, and as far as I am concerned, are trying to steal accounts based on their demand for login info. To accuse people of paranoia is one thing to accuse people of stealing is another one entirely. Out of order statement to make IMO.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:55:00 - [85] Originally by: Bawldeux IV ASCN victim story... You seen and felt the damage and wreckage in gamefun that spies do, I find it only naturally that alliance start to do out of game audits as a result as it is about the only thing they can do since the game itself grants them complete immunity. Morally it shouldnt be like this. However they only try to protect their gameplay experience and that of thousands of others in their alliance; before it is ruined by one or a few rotten souls without any ingame options to weed them out. ----------------------------------------------- The BIG Lottery
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:56:00 - [86] Edited by: Lyn30101 on 19/01/2007 13:54:54 Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Lyn30101 Incorrect. I have seen the original thread with chatlog and he very much did violate the EULA. He starts by asking for the screenshot of character screen. When this is provided, he then demands the login screen with drop down box displayed. He further goes on to ask for a Directory snaphot of the guys hard drive. Read the original thread to which this applies. I was part of that original thread, and yes, LV DID ASK FOR THE LOGIN INFO. But to be fair he only claimed that others even demand screenshots of harddrives. My apologies, you are correct sir. He asked for character screen, login drop down screen, then claimed other alliances wanted hard drive snapshots. I stand corrected. This in no way makes what he did ask for appropriate. I'd reccomend LV to fire the recruiter in question to be honest but I somehow doubt they would. I still am troubled by the Devs unwillingness to step up and tell alliances Do not do this.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:56:00 - [87] Originally by: DrAtomic So you don't have any experience on the subject matter and yet you are ready to deal judgement? There is a word for that as well... Oh I'm sorry, did you have anything to add to the thread or are you here to look up words in a dictionary? Here do me a favor and look up incompetent then report back to us.
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:03:00 - [88] Bald, the problem is with the amount of alt financeer accounts growing so people can mine for isk in empire to finance their pvp, it takes a lot of subs lost before people will notice a turn in numbers.

Eldo Davip Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:17:00 - [89] Thread cleaned. Please don't flame and don't troll. ___ Email Us \| Forum Rules \| Our Website EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER

Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:18:00 - [90] Originally by: Lyn30101 Bald, the problem is with the amount of alt financeer accounts growing so people can mine for isk in empire to finance their pvp, it takes a lot of subs lost before people will notice a turn in numbers. And by the time they do, EVE will be beyond recovery. Its a question of morality vs winning.
Topaz Skydiver	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:23:00 - [91] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 19/01/2007 14:20:07 @Kate you have to notice that 0.0 alliances just play the game on a more serious level. There is a lot more to lose. I don't like the dollar vs. isk charts for obvious reasons, because EVE is a game and not an investment that is supposed to pay something back except a bit fun maybe. But it has been said already that e.g. a Titan would be worth 18.000 $ in RL currency. Some alliances own two, add the capital fleet and other assets and they are playing with stuff that would be worth like 50-100.000$ in RL currency maybe. And in a war, one side might lose it almost all inclusively their home with the resources that brought them a lot of that wealth. That is the game of the top alliances in 0.0 with spies, intrigues and all that.
Pistonbroke D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:39:00 - [92] It is true that there are concerns over security whne lettins someone into your corp or alliance. These are well illustrated by the following: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=429951 There is little that can be done in a lazy way to be sure that you are not letting a spy into your organization though. If required to post a screenshot, there are ways around the issue. It's like in life, if you are going to employ someone, trust them with your stock, your money, your customer base and the reputation of your business, then you can only do so much and then you have to rely on instinct. There are however things you can do within the organization to limit the ability of an untrustworthy member to cause harm (and let's face it CCP have supplied lots of these, and there are still more that can be done with the application of a little lateral thinking), perhaps instead of looking for an instant fix, the people who are most paranoid about this need to focus their attention in these areas. Anyway, enjoy the post and vid.... and remember, it could be you next ;)
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:41:00 - [93] Yeah and that serious note keeps me out of them. Why anyone would enjoy being interrogated to join a group of people they just want to game with for fun is beyond my understanding. Ive been in serious first person shooter clans in real tournaments, but you know what? never did we force people to send us copies of their harddrives and screenshots and account info. no, we had fun. We joked around. in 0.0 it's like me: hi, I read about your corp and would like to join! them: YOUR A SPY. screenshot your harddrive and login. screenshot your skills. if you dont have at least 76.8% of your skill points in this this and this category then you dont be in. me: um. hi? so what do you guys do for fun? them: stupid newbie alt noob corp noob carebear empire scum. you are dumb and you cant fly with us. good luck ever getting into a corp its like they think they are elite or something when really they just seem to be afraid of making friends
abukede Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:41:00 - [94] Another example of an individual who needs attention and can't get it in real life. p.s. guess you won't be joining the alliance huh? Your loss. Shinra is the Predator and Eve is our prey.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:43:00 - [95] Originally by: abukede Another example of an individual who needs attention and can't get it in real life. p.s. guess you won't be joining the alliance huh? Your loss. with your attitude you should direct that post at yourself
Lyn30101	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:50:00 - [96] Edited by: Lyn30101 on 19/01/2007 14:53:57 Originally by: abukede Another example of an individual who needs attention and can't get it in real life. p.s. guess you won't be joining the alliance huh? Your loss. Your alliance should get ahead of this and fire the recruiter that asked for sensitive personal login info. And before you deny it, the guy asked for BOTH character AND login screen with drop down box displayed, so yeah, there's no getting around the EULA violation there. ------ Sub ends Feb 13. No you can't have my stuff, why should I reward bullies and phishers?
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:53:00 - [97] I can spank him gently.
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:01:00 - [98] Originally by: Bawldeux IV you go ahead and believe that mr i-am-not-a-security-expert. I handle security for a large network, and you are wrong. Yeah, I'll take your word for it mr-i-am-a-securty-expert. Originally by: Bawldeux IV true, but that is why my users email address cannot be used to login, nor can thier user name from the address be used, a prefix has to be added to designate which of the domains they belong to, before it will work (another layer of security that ccp cannnot use, thus the rule against sharing the login name...) You being a bofh does not have any bearing on what's standard when it comes to account names. Originally by: Bawldeux IV brute force and dictionary attacks are common because people with no knowledge of security use weak passwords, the same type that think giving out their login name is 'ok' Hehe just a line of blah blah that you invented to sound credible. Brute force attacks are only possible on systems that allow you to spam a million password attempts per second. Is this one of those? People like you on the other hand would think its ok to accidentally type your password in alliance chat and believe you are safe because noone knows your account name O_o Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Vito Parabellum Three more things; You cannot change account name if it becomes "compromised". There are probably a lot of players with the same account name as character name. And with so many users you can guess account names just by chosing some random words, like arnold, sunflare, apache etc (sorry goes out to those users for revealing their secret accountnames!). weak argument (and it is one point, not threee), using idiots as an example of why it is ok to passout your account name is as bad as being one of those idiots No, it's three different points. I'll elaborate, just for you. One being that if your accountname, in your poor users case their domain followed by their email (oh, so secret!), gets "leaked" out, the user cannot do anything to change it himself without going to daddy-o. And what are you gonna do? Move him to another domain? Change his email? Also account names are stored everywhere, in cookies, in the registry, inifiles. It's also shown in clear text when you type it into the box. If you are so daft to believe that the account name should have any inherent security, you might want to go back to school. The second point is that many eve-chars will have the same char name as account name. What Im getting at here is that if the dude is called John in game, the chances of his accountname also being John is higher than it being Betty and you can thus connect account to char in some cases, without even asking him. Third point is that if you are going to brute force any account, you can just choose a random name and almost be assured that there is an account with that name, just because theres no security rested on account names (except on your domains ofc) and so they aren't usually randomized. Now please tell me why this is really one argument and a weak one, and do it with a strong one instead of trolling. Speaking about arguments, I've read your post twice and come to the conclusion that you are trying to make weak points with no arguments at all. So please rephrase if you are able. Originally by: Bawldeux IV you can always post your login name in this thread, if you feel so assured of what you posted already...(didn't think so...) Heh, I have no problem giving out my account name but I could get warned for breaking the EULA you know. I know my password is strong and it carries all the security surrounding my account. BTW, you trying to reveal my account name makes you as bad as LV right? ;) ------ Simply by pulling on both ends, Chuck Norris can strech diamonds back into coal.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:14:00 - [99] Both the login screen and the character selection screen is easy to fake. Its so easy, that I will not accept this as it gives a senses of false security to the corp/alliance that uses it. Also my account details are private to myself, and its the same to all my members as well. There are better way to determine if there is a spy or not. ----------- Management and Leadership
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:26:00 - [100] Originally by: Kate Nexus Ive been in serious first person shooter clans in real tournaments, but you know what? never did we force people to send us copies of their harddrives and screenshots and account info. no, we had fun. We joked around. Did you ever have a hostile clan try to infiltrate yours in your FPS shooter? And then inform the other team of where you were or even at an opportune moment start killing your own side? The equivalent stuff does happen in Eve, so I bet if that happened to you in FPS tourneys, you'd be more careful about who you recruited as well.
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC.	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:36:00 - [101] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Three more things; You cannot change account name if it becomes "compromised". There are probably a lot of players with the same account name as character name. And with so many users you can guess account names just by chosing some random words, like arnold, sunflare, apache etc (sorry goes out to those users for revealing their secret accountnames!). LOL I truly do feel sorry for the security illiterate who would use their account name for one of their character names. Originally by: Vito Parabellum One being that if your accountname, in your poor users case their domain followed by their email (oh, so secret!), gets "leaked" out, the user cannot do anything to change it himself without going to daddy-o. And what are you gonna do? Move him to another domain? Change his email? Also account names are stored everywhere, in cookies, in the registry, inifiles. It's also shown in clear text when you type it into the box. If you are so daft to believe that the account name should have any inherent security, you might want to go back to school. If people are looking at your registry, cookies, or your login screen, your security is already fatally flawed, and no super-encrypted, 47 digit password is going to pull your bacon out of the fire. Originally by: Vito Parabellum The second point is that many eve-chars will have the same char name as account name. What Im getting at here is that if the dude is called John in game, the chances of his accountname also being John is higher than it being Betty and you can thus connect account to char in some cases, without even asking him. If your account name is the same as your character name, well, what can I say? You are ignorant. Originally by: Vito Parabellum Third point is that if you are going to brute force any account, you can just choose a random name and almost be assured that there is an account with that name, just because theres no security rested on account names (except on your domains ofc) and so they aren't usually randomized. Sure, there's a chance you may end up with an actual account name. Assuming that, there's also a chance you may actually get an active account. Assuming even further, there's a chance you might get an account name of an active account with anything worth a damn on it. Or you could just remove all these steps and variables and just hand out your account name, assuring the would-be thief that not only is it an active account, but he will also have a general idea of whether the account is worth the effort to get into (SP total, isk in wallet). Originally by: Vito Parabellum Now please tell me why this is really one argument and a weak one, and do it with a strong one instead of trolling. Speaking about arguments, I've read your post twice and come to the conclusion that you are trying to make weak points with no arguments at all. So please rephrase if you are able. There are no weak arguments when it comes to keeping security high. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:08:00 - [102] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Originally by: Bawldeux IV you go ahead and believe that mr i-am-not-a-security-expert. I handle security for a large network, and you are wrong. Yeah, I'll take your word for it mr-i-am-a-securty-expert. It's just simple statistics, you can work it out yourself. Assuming that it is equally difficult to guess accountname or password and it takes you 1000 tries to hit the right password that would mean you need 1 million tries to guess both of them at the same time. I would call this a significant increase in security. Originally by: Vito Parabellum One being that if your accountname, in your poor users case their domain followed by their email (oh, so secret!), gets "leaked" out, the user cannot do anything to change it himself without going to daddy-o. And what are you gonna do? Move him to another domain? Change his email? Also account names are stored everywhere, in cookies, in the registry, inifiles. It's also shown in clear text when you type it into the box. If you are so daft to believe that the account name should have any inherent security, you might want to go back to school. So using mailbox names as login is bad security? Indeed, but what does this have to do with EVE account names? Originally by: Vito Parabellum The second point is that many eve-chars will have the same char name as account name. What Im getting at here is that if the dude is called John in game, the chances of his accountname also being John is higher than it being Betty and you can thus connect account to char in some cases, without even asking him. Nearly as bad as giving away your account name. But is this a reason to do it? Originally by: Vito Parabellum Third point is that if you are going to brute force any account, you can just choose a random name and almost be assured that there is an account with that name, just because theres no security rested on account names (except on your domains ofc) and so they aren't usually randomized. Yes almost. There is no guarantee that such an account name exists. You are still guessing in the dark. Originally by: Vito Parabellum Heh, I have no problem giving out my account name You are free to do whatever you want, but please be nice and stop attacking people that point out that this might be a bad move.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:24:00 - [103] This is a moot point, if the op of this topic thought somthing was wrong then he should have contacted the GM's. Now is this in violation of the EULA hell yeah, is it going to get looked into, probably. Does every frigging alliance out there want this type of information, you betcha. This falls under the same grey area, dont let anyone else play on your account stuff...We all know it happens, but see no problem with it. "This is not jack, its Mark...I am just changing Jack's skill while he is away." Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:32:00 - [104] Edited by: Galk on 19/01/2007 16:29:27 It's when i see things happening like this, i feel so justified in my stance against joining any sort of group playing the game ccp is now primarialy developing. One group does this, others will to compete, it will only get worse and worse. In the end it goes far beyond an enjoyable game/hobby for me. CCP never draw lines under anything like this, so don't expect an answer. One day the house of cards will crumble though, ccp's silence over issues such as these and the causes will catch up with them sooner or later. ______
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:18:00 - [105] Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Vito Parabellum Originally by: Bawldeux IV you go ahead and believe that mr i-am-not-a-security-expert. I handle security for a large network, and you are wrong. Yeah, I'll take your word for it mr-i-am-a-securty-expert. It's just simple statistics, you can work it out yourself. Assuming that it is equally difficult to guess accountname or password and it takes you 1000 tries to hit the right password that would mean you need 1 million tries to guess both of them at the same time. I would call this a significant increase in security. Originally by: Vito Parabellum One being that if your accountname, in your poor users case their domain followed by their email (oh, so secret!), gets "leaked" out, the user cannot do anything to change it himself without going to daddy-o. And what are you gonna do? Move him to another domain? Change his email? Also account names are stored everywhere, in cookies, in the registry, inifiles. It's also shown in clear text when you type it into the box. If you are so daft to believe that the account name should have any inherent security, you might want to go back to school. So using mailbox names as login is bad security? Indeed, but what does this have to do with EVE account names? Originally by: Vito Parabellum The second point is that many eve-chars will have the same char name as account name. What Im getting at here is that if the dude is called John in game, the chances of his accountname also being John is higher than it being Betty and you can thus connect account to char in some cases, without even asking him. Nearly as bad as giving away your account name. But is this a reason to do it? Originally by: Vito Parabellum Third point is that if you are going to brute force any account, you can just choose a random name and almost be assured that there is an account with that name, just because theres no security rested on account names (except on your domains ofc) and so they aren't usually randomized. Yes almost. There is no guarantee that such an account name exists. You are still guessing in the dark. Originally by: Vito Parabellum Heh, I have no problem giving out my account name You are free to do whatever you want, but please be nice and stop attacking people that point out that this might be a bad move. thanks, you grasped the concepts well. saved me the trouble of a reply to the 'special' person. I do notice that after all the brevodo that he still did not share his account info that he claims was safe to do...then made excuses as to why...while calling my arguements weak..HEH...wuv those 'special' people.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:02:00 - [106] I do not see this as a EULA infringment, as - if you sell a char - you NEED to supply your login NAME to the vendor so he can transfer the character. So I cannot see someone asking you for the name as an issue. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:05:00 - [107] well again unless CCP provides EULA supported methods of spying and spy detection I guess things are going to stay the way they are DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:15:00 - [108] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 19/01/2007 20:12:29 Originally by: Necronomicon I do not see this as a EULA infringment, as - if you sell a char - you NEED to supply your login NAME to the vendor so he can transfer the character. So I cannot see someone asking you for the name as an issue. Never done, so I may be wrong, but if you do that with the EULA approved system, so throug CCP and not E-bay, you will not give the other party any private information.

kieron	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:33:00 - [109] I fail to see where the 'grey area' in the EULA is in regards to sharing account information. Item 2 of the EULA, specifically the third paragraph under sub heading A and the first and second paragraphs of sub heading B concern account usernames and passwords. To summarize, unless you are a minor or paying for the account of your minor child, you are not allowed to share account information, including (but not limited to) your user name and password, nor is anyone authorized to ask for this information. It doesn't matter if the requestor is in a single man corporation or a 1000+ member alliance, sharing account information is still against the EULA. In short, just don't do it. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online


CCP kieron	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:33:00 - [110] I fail to see where the 'grey area' in the EULA is in regards to sharing account information. Item 2 of the EULA, specifically the third paragraph under sub heading A and the first and second paragraphs of sub heading B concern account usernames and passwords. To summarize, unless you are a minor or paying for the account of your minor child, you are not allowed to share account information, including (but not limited to) your user name and password, nor is anyone authorized to ask for this information. It doesn't matter if the requestor is in a single man corporation or a 1000+ member alliance, sharing account information is still against the EULA. In short, just don't do it. kieron Director of Community Relations, EVE Online EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang Look Ma, I'm in a Dev thread! Oh wait...

Snarls McGee	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:01:00 - [111] Originally by: kieron To summarize, unless you are a minor or paying for the account of your minor child, you are not allowed to share account information, including (but not limited to) your user name and password, nor is anyone authorized to ask for this information. It doesn't matter if the requestor is in a single man corporation or a 1000+ member alliance, sharing account information is still against the EULA. In short, just don't do it. Thanks for the reply but I'm wondering how your answer jives with the character transfer mechanism where you NEED to ask for the account name of the target account that is getting the character in question. How is that any different than getting the same information in the form of a screenshot? ---------- We've all heard that a million monkeys typing will eventually create something intelligent. Thanks to message forums we know that isn't true.
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:14:00 - [112] Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 19/01/2007 21:11:01 Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 19/01/2007 21:10:41 Originally by: Snarls McGee Originally by: kieron To summarize, unless you are a minor or paying for the account of your minor child, you are not allowed to share account information, including (but not limited to) your user name and password, nor is anyone authorized to ask for this information. It doesn't matter if the requestor is in a single man corporation or a 1000+ member alliance, sharing account information is still against the EULA. In short, just don't do it. Thanks for the reply but I'm wondering how your answer jives with the character transfer mechanism where you NEED to ask for the account name of the target account that is getting the character in question. How is that any different than getting the same information in the form of a screenshot? As I understand it, the legal process for transfer can be done through the GM's without the two parties involved knowing each other's account info. I imagine it can get pretty complicated, but I'm sure it's worth the effort. Kieron thank you for commenting on this. I wish you'd tell the alliances to not ask for it, but at least if asked for such one could now link this thread to a person so as to make them understand they cannot ask for that information. This thread will now go into my favorites. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Tremitry Darkstar Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:06:00 - [113] Edited by: Tremitry Darkstar on 19/01/2007 23:02:51 While I am all for an official clarification, I still wonder if this is enough "encouragement" to dissuade alliances from continuing this practice. A rule is fine and dandy... as long as it is enforced. I'm all for giving them a warning, and the punishment is somewhat implied in the post, but I wonder if it'll actually stop the practice of asking for login information. Btw, for the funny guy that is trying to compare typical Windows network security to Eve account security, they are entirely two different animals with different levels of security protection. Eve has no rules on username or password generation, but any IT professional worth the Mt Dew he drinks will likely have a very strict password requirement for his users. And that's just the first difference of a lengthy list of many, many things. -Tremitry Darkstar
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.20 16:42:00 - [114] Edited by: Tarkan Kador on 20/01/2007 16:39:19 Originally by: kieron It doesn't matter if the requestor is in a single man corporation or a 1000+ member alliance, sharing account information is still against the EULA. In short, just don't do it. Thanks for the statement, but I doubt you'll do anything to make it less prevalent. These alliances just plain don't want anyone in their ranks that won't surrender their info, and if they can't do it openly in a way you can track and enforce, they'll just demand the stuff over TS/vent servers, private forums, etc. I highly doubt that CCP can do anything to a 1000+ subscriber block though, even if its flagrant. You all just can't afford to. My guess is that if you'll clamp down on anyone at all, it will be that single sub corp. Not the 1000+ member alliance who buys EON, goes to fanfest, and provides revenue with alt money, and GTC money.
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:01:00 - [115] I tend to think that a lot of people have got the wrong end of the stick with EVE. This is not just a game about spaceships. This is a game about politics, war, social conflict, market trading, and the expansion and clash of power bases and factions. Espionage is an integral part of that dynamic, and poses another layer of challenge to overcome. Now, I really love taking part in that kind of a dynamic universe. This isn't some bland PvE-fest, nor is the PvP limited to a few fixed arenas under strict ruling - we as players are granted unprecedented freedom in what we are allowed to do, and with that comes the option of infiltrating and spying on a rival faction - and frankly I give grudging kudos to anyone who can do it and not get caught. I would be highly disappointed if CCP introduced a change to the rules of the game that in some way nerfed spying. It may be irritating but it's an integral part of the flavour and freedom of EVE, which are the things that make this game truly special. In short: Spies are a fact of life, and in a roundabout way, part of what make this game great. There's challenge and fun to be had in outwitting them and rooting them out. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Hikari Kisugi Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:33:00 - [116] Originally by: Stitcher I tend to think that a lot of people have got the wrong end of the stick with EVE. This is not just a game about spaceships. This is a game about politics, war, social conflict, market trading, and the expansion and clash of power bases and factions. Espionage is an integral part of that dynamic, and poses another layer of challenge to overcome. In short: Spies are a fact of life, and in a roundabout way, part of what make this game great. There's challenge and fun to be had in outwitting them and rooting them out. While, I agree this is what the game is based upon, I think now it has gone to the wrong extreme. Ingame espionage would be wonderful, its uses and abilites would require an entire major patch of content, I doubt people would be pleased if this was all a major patch provided. I think there is far too much reliance on out of game mechanisms for spying and subdefuge, this is simply at the current game mechanisms do not allow for it. Asking for this information has been borne out of this paranoia. Some corp have asked for login screenshots for years, account details was the natural progression, some corps even ask for account login and password, and have done so for years even though it is against the EULA. It would be nice to see this game progress to a point where these methods were not necessary, where espionage was ingame, and the mechanisms to defend against it were also. Multiple accounts are one thing, but this game was always bred upon deceipt when people could have 3 separate characters that were not linked in any fashion. Time for evolution and progression on this side of the game, don't see it happening anytime soon. ----- 'The worst spot in hell is reserved for those who betray.' Your signature graphics is not related to Eve. Signature graphics may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to EVE Online. - Devil ([email protected])
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.20 17:50:00 - [117] Originally by: kieron To summarize, unless you are a minor or paying for the account of your minor child, you are not allowed to share account information, including (but not limited to) your user name and password, nor is anyone authorized to ask for this information. I'm curious why, according to your EULA, a married couple cannot use each other's accounts, even though under law all their assets are shared. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Neslo Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.20 18:54:00 - [118] Edited by: Neslo on 20/01/2007 18:52:01 Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: kieron To summarize, unless you are a minor or paying for the account of your minor child, you are not allowed to share account information, including (but not limited to) your user name and password, nor is anyone authorized to ask for this information. I'm curious why, according to your EULA, a married couple cannot use each other's accounts, even though under law all their assets are shared. Because if your wife gets mad at your and pulls a GHSC on you, then they don't want to hear about your marital problems. So they cover themselves from having to be your divorce attorney about virtual assets. So in the EULA, they can just point and say your problem, close petition when you try and get your stuff back. From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:21:00 - [119] Edited by: Stitcher on 20/01/2007 19:20:53 Originally by: Hikari Kisugi While, I agree this is what the game is based upon, I think now it has gone to the wrong extreme. Ingame espionage would be wonderful, its uses and abilites would require an entire major patch of content, I doubt people would be pleased if this was all a major patch provided. I think there is far too much reliance on out of game mechanisms for spying and subdefuge, this is simply at the current game mechanisms do not allow for it. Asking for this information has been borne out of this paranoia. Some corp have asked for login screenshots for years, account details was the natural progression, some corps even ask for account login and password, and have done so for years even though it is against the EULA. It would be nice to see this game progress to a point where these methods were not necessary, where espionage was ingame, and the mechanisms to defend against it were also. Multiple accounts are one thing, but this game was always bred upon deceipt when people could have 3 separate characters that were not linked in any fashion. I disagree. in-game espionage? The entire point is that this is a player dynamic - a "playing style" if you will. ignoring the fact that it would take the soul out of the spy game to start with, how the hell would you do it? what "skills" could you use to generate an in-game spy. would you need to buy modules? would there be BPOs? would you, perhaps, have to mine human resources? how, in short, would it be possible to actually HAVE an in-game mechanic for spying on your opponent's alliance mail, intel channels and TS server? Now, I'm not saying that I'm in favour of spies. It's really annoying to have to constantly comb them out of the alliance's hair like some kind of glorified lice.... but it's still a valid tactic that exploits the game mechanic, like overview setups, aligned group warping, safespot BMs, and all the other little tricks that players use to make themselves more efficient without resorting to skill training or modules. We all of us use the game in ways that aren't factored in to the code. Spying is just another aspect of that player inventiveness. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Bawldeux IV Green Lantern Corps	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:27:00 - [120] Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 20/01/2007 19:20:53 Originally by: Hikari Kisugi While, I agree this is what the game is based upon, I think now it has gone to the wrong extreme. Ingame espionage would be wonderful, its uses and abilites would require an entire major patch of content, I doubt people would be pleased if this was all a major patch provided. I think there is far too much reliance on out of game mechanisms for spying and subdefuge, this is simply at the current game mechanisms do not allow for it. Asking for this information has been borne out of this paranoia. Some corp have asked for login screenshots for years, account details was the natural progression, some corps even ask for account login and password, and have done so for years even though it is against the EULA. It would be nice to see this game progress to a point where these methods were not necessary, where espionage was ingame, and the mechanisms to defend against it were also. Multiple accounts are one thing, but this game was always bred upon deceipt when people could have 3 separate characters that were not linked in any fashion. I disagree. in-game espionage? The entire point is that this is a player dynamic - a "playing style" if you will. ignoring the fact that it would take the soul out of the spy game to start with, how the hell would you do it? what "skills" could you use to generate an in-game spy. would you need to buy modules? would there be BPOs? would you, perhaps, have to mine human resources? how, in short, would it be possible to actually HAVE an in-game mechanic for spying on your opponent's alliance mail, intel channels and TS server? Now, I'm not saying that I'm in favour of spies. It's really annoying to have to constantly comb them out of the alliance's hair like some kind of glorified lice.... but it's still a valid tactic that exploits the game mechanic, like overview setups, aligned group warping, safespot BMs, and all the other little tricks that players use to make themselves more efficient without resorting to skill training or modules. We all of us use the game in ways that aren't factored in to the code. Spying is just another aspect of that player inventiveness. you said it, it can be seen as an exploit by some...while spy's are fine imho, the other things you mentioned are built into the game, spy's are not built in, but could be skill based, so there is a chance to hide your past when you apply for a corp . Maybe a skill for recruiters that would tell only if the applying pilot had an alias (alt/more then one account) the corp did not like or trust, without reveling anything else. Higher the skill, the 'deeper' the investigation would go, increasing chance of catching the spy. If something in the game is costing CCP subscribers because some groups take advantage of (exploit) lack of enforcement of rules, exploiting flaws in mechanics of the game, or meta gaming crap, then CCP has a right and duty to alter the game and the rules so as to keep customers subscribing. Those that drive other customers away, are not an asset to CCP, but are a liability that cost them revenue.
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.21 05:55:00 - [121] Wow. A long thread for something so simple. Do not give your account info out regardless of who asks for it. Yes. That's all there is to it. The corps and alliances ask because idiots are willing to do it. Yeah. Idiots. Is it wrong of them to ask? Yes. Is it stupid to give the info to them? Yes. Stop doing it and eventually they'll have to stop asking.
Tissa Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.21 10:17:00 - [122] Originally by: Tiny Tove Edited by: Tiny Tove on 19/01/2007 12:02:30 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=462042 There are some points to be made: 1. It was locked by ISD because snip Because it became a troll fest and flaming of a Moderator which is against the rules. Kreul Intentions 2. The chatlogs that CLEARLY showed LV asking directly for account information having not been satisfied that the character information was enough have been snipped. 3. LV now have free license in this thread to claim it never happened. It was low enough that they did do it, and now to lie about it is just disgusting. The old thread is nearly useless thanks to ISD rules and intervention. Section 6. No Forum User May Upset CCP, It's Representatives, Or Large Influential Groups Of PAYING Account Holders. EDITTING for linky Just to clarify. UKC asks for log in screens meaning your character selection screen not the screen showing your account name. Could the OP or someone with more information please Eve Mail me in-game with the chat logs. Tissa, Senior Recruitment officer, UKC, LV. My views do not represent those of my corp or alliance. (Joined UKC 19/09/06)
gestaltt	Posted - 2007.10.05 22:03:00 - [123] Edited by: gestaltt on 05/10/2007 22:04:40 Originally by: Bawldeux IV you said it, it can be seen as an exploit by some...while spy's are fine imho, the other things you mentioned are built into the game, spy's are not built in, but could be skill based, so there is a chance to hide your past when you apply for a corp . Maybe a skill for recruiters that would tell only if the applying pilot had an alias (alt/more then one account) the corp did not like or trust, without reveling anything else. Higher the skill, the 'deeper' the investigation would go, increasing chance of catching the spy. If something in the game is costing CCP subscribers because some groups take advantage of (exploit) lack of enforcement of rules, exploiting flaws in mechanics of the game, or meta gaming crap, then CCP has a right and duty to alter the game and the rules so as to keep customers subscribing. Those that drive other customers away, are not an asset to CCP, but are a liability that cost them revenue. I have no problem with spying / espionage this is more of a game content issue for me. if there is a tech guru in your corp working on 3rd party software to manage your corp, you know what im talking about. but anyway, there is no effective balance to RL or virtual espianage, with some kind of in-game countermeasures. you can't be imprisoned, tortured or truly killed (add meaningful deterent or punishment according to you here) as is quite effective in RL. plenty of punishment to be had, theoretically, but loyalty and honor are not much of a deterent for those who dont have any to start with. toons have no soul to save, and no body to encarserate, so most of your efforts are reactionary. id trade all the pos spamming for better user interface, logistics, and management content anyday.[

ISD Valorem Amarr ISD STAR	Posted - 2007.10.05 22:45:00 - [124] Thanks for the 10 month Bump click Valorem forum rules \| CAOD Rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

ThisAlt IsUseless	Posted - 2007.10.05 22:46:00 - [125] Originally by: ISD Valorem Thanks for the 10 month Bump click Valorem at least, it's only 10 months...

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.