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Lyra Gerie Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2015.12.28 21:15:10 - [31] - Quote aside from scramblers and such has any one tried bumping these ships as they're spooling up? it's not a direct counter but if they launch you 100km and they're thrown off 45 or so degrees then they're trapped with you rather then you being trapped with them and their buddies.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 993	Posted - 2015.12.28 23:36:34 - [32] - Quote First the tactical destroyers are a problem, now command destroyers are a problem and people complain about the solution.. You crazy kids really don't know what you want.. /whisper.. "We want a Confessor with a scram on..." Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 42443	Posted - 2015.12.29 00:44:51 - [33] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Does this qualify as a #firstworldbattleshipproblem ? More like a #friendlessbattleshipproblem. It's probably worth reading the AAR from Asher on yesterday's fight in Ikoskio and then the very relevant comments from Elise Randolph: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3yhfl6/my_ikoskio_aar_long_post_warning/ I would guess that Niraia is probably coming from a position of the experience in that fight and there is fairly wide agreement among large fleet FCs that the CDs are somewhat OP, which seems yo be are cent trend CCP have been on when introducing new ships. Niraia is hardly one to cry and CFT are not without friends when they fight. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 997	Posted - 2015.12.29 06:07:28 - [34] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Does this qualify as a #firstworldbattleshipproblem ? More like a #friendlessbattleshipproblem. It's probably worth reading the AAR from Asher on yesterday's fight in Ikoskio and then the very relevant comments from Elise Randolph: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3yhfl6/my_ikoskio_aar_long_post_warning/ I would guess that Niraia is probably coming from a position of the experience in that fight and there is fairly wide agreement among large fleet FCs that the CDs are somewhat OP, which seems yo be are cent trend CCP have been on when introducing new ships. Niraia is hardly one to cry and CFT are not without friends when they fight. Sorry for asking this but what does an ancillery armor rep have to to with a text and a compact disk with an "op"? Just need a clarification. I'm genuine curious. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 1093	Posted - 2015.12.29 06:19:48 - [35] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Sorry for asking this but what does an ancillery armor rep have to to with a text and a compact disk with an "op"? Just need a clarification. I'm genuine curious. I don't think you are. But just in case - AAR means after action report. Riot Girl wrote: With diminishing returns on fleets appearing soon, certainly seems that way I second the question about this one. What change is being referred to? Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 341	Posted - 2015.12.29 06:21:01 - [36] - Quote gimme iwin button
Davian Thule Pirkibo The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 4	Posted - 2015.12.29 06:28:06 - [37] - Quote They are apart of ccpS war on the blob, good thing too, a lot of new possibilities , and an easy counter to protect your logis is to have fast tackle hunt down hostile cds* nullsec groups do that for hostile dictors already
RcTamiya SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart. 43	Posted - 2015.12.29 07:12:59 - [38] - Quote In 00 you may have counters, but have you seen what is possible in wspace with them?! Of course due to lower numbers, it's rare to see more than 2-4 of them in a Fleetfight, however what are you doing if 1. your subcaps get MJDg away from your Triage? 2. your logis get MJDg away from your fleet? Wspace doesn't have that much Pilots to have anti-CD-Interceptors on standby, in fact there were people saying a single hic might do the job .... a single Jammgu disagreed (Failcons work great too!). in lower Numbers they're incredible difficult to counter, but also such an awesome toy to use against the blob :/ So yes in Theory in a perfect world you have scrambchains, anti-tackle on standby etc, but that's kinda difficult to setup in wspace, we use way too much neuting and ecm there to hunt our prey (unlike 00 with their high DPS in Fleets of >150), which is the counter to counter CDs, so now we have to bring the counter for CDs, together with the counter of hostiles counter to our counter?! starts recruiting again, sigh
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 68	Posted - 2015.12.29 09:23:30 - [39] - Quote Niraia wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: align on opposite direction and MJD back... What if there is more than one of them! What then! This is in response to part about CDs and solo bigger ships. The problem is not the CDs per se as they can't kill you solo. But the gang that follows them can. It means you have to counter it like you would with every blop. A) Bring something fast to kite them, this would also help to avoid being jumped or B) Bring support. Concerning the daisy chaining a newer corp mate in a navy maulus with double scram, would actually be able to hold two CDs, at least you can fight were you want to then. or C) watchlist pilots who does this and avoid them. It is not every gagn that runs with a CD so pick your fights or D) accept you chose to solo in a ship that is vulnerable solo, and go down like a hero smiling (because you know your courage will send you directly to Valhalla) when you inevitable explode Another point you touched on is the lack of skill required for CDs. I don't see how using the CD requires less skil than a normal blop, a normal blop with a griffin, falcon, keres etc.? Lets be honest in EVE a lot of the group pvp is low skill based, which is also fine. Instead of being annoyed you can't solo a gang with a CD, think about what shenanigangs you could do with it.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 999	Posted - 2015.12.29 10:38:53 - [40] - Quote Barrogh Habalu wrote: elitatwo wrote: Sorry for asking this but what does an ancillery armor rep have to to with a text and a compact disk with an "op"? Just need a clarification. I'm genuine curious. I don't think you are. But just in case - AAR means after action report. Riot Girl wrote: With diminishing returns on fleets appearing soon, certainly seems that way I second the question about this one. What change is being referred to? See, not long ago I asked to keep acronyms at a minimum and I am used to "aar" meaning ancillery armor rep. Now it makes sense to me too. And Riot Girl, glad to see you back! Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Xe'Cara'eos A Big Enough Lever 395	Posted - 2015.12.29 13:00:42 - [41] - Quote Niraia wrote: I don't know what's with you guys adding stuff that reduces the amount of conflict in the game, seems to me like a good way to kill it, but since we're stuck with this un-EVE design philosophy, could you at least make MJD field generators require a little bit of skill? Either make it jump whoever the user has targeted at the time of activation, or jump whatever is in a narrow (5-10 degree) cone? Or, you know, add a counter <3 what happened to your HAC/lachesis/T3 support? For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
TinkerHell Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 212	Posted - 2015.12.29 21:52:18 - [42] - Quote Xe'Cara'eos wrote: Niraia wrote: I don't know what's with you guys adding stuff that reduces the amount of conflict in the game, seems to me like a good way to kill it, but since we're stuck with this un-EVE design philosophy, could you at least make MJD field generators require a little bit of skill? Either make it jump whoever the user has targeted at the time of activation, or jump whatever is in a narrow (5-10 degree) cone? Or, you know, add a counter <3 what happened to your HAC/lachesis/T3 support? A HAC/Lachesis/T3/HIC cannot lock and scram a command destroyer doing its MJD from 105km away bringing a 2nd command destroyer that lands on you with 1s left on its timer. I do not have 105km scrams. I also dont have the alpha in my small gangs to kill a 25-30k EHP ship with a small sig within 5 seconds at 105km. 5 Seconds is not long when you factor in you need to spot the ship on overview, lock it, broadcast and kill its EHP all within 5s. Also if someone drops several command destroyers we cant lock and scram them all perfectly, we are not supercomputers that have the ability to make sure we have all scrammed different guys within 5s. There is a very high chance we will miss one and this is all that is needed. We have used scram chains within our fleet, but as this means we are all scramming each other, we are giving up ALOT of mid slots to counter one ship that the enemy can field. No other ship has this power. Also the scram chain can easily be broken by neuts and jams, so its a fairly crap counter in my opinion. The only counter i have currently which actually works is for every ship in my fleets to drop a cyno. Which is ridiculous. So, we can drop cynos and anchor ourselves in place, only fly fast nano kiting ships or fly 100% capital gangs.
Morrigan LeSante Senex Legio The OSS 946	Posted - 2015.12.30 08:46:19 - [43] - Quote Last I heard, they move cyno ships anyway. And bastioned marauders. The message is loud and clear, fly kitey small crap, or die in a fire.
Bad Messenger Rehabilitation Clinic 859	Posted - 2015.12.30 09:03:22 - [44] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Doesn't scrambling the destroyer stop it? Locking a destroyer and activating a module on it under 6 seconds is not small feat for a battleship... Is the concept of 'bring support' dead then? With diminishing returns on fleets appearing soon, certainly seems that way I'm not syaing the idea of bringing support is dead, but I think we might see some more solo BS soon whether that's good or bad, i don't know so if you use solo bs then how command destroyer can prevent you soloing? or did you ment that you can not deagro anymore and run like little girls do?
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3881	Posted - 2015.12.30 10:23:40 - [45] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Riot Girl, glad to see you back! Thanks! Barrogh Habalu wrote: I second the question about this one. What change is being referred to? Not sure, I was kinda drunk when I posted that but I think I read something about larger fleets being penalised with diminishing returns on greater numbers. I can't remember where I saw it though or if I understood it correctly. Oh god.
Riot Girl You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack 3881	Posted - 2015.12.30 10:25:57 - [46] - Quote Bad Messenger wrote: so if you use solo bs then how command destroyer can prevent you soloing? or did you ment that you can not deagro anymore and run like little girls do? I just meant if people are going to be penalised for using numbers, that will increase the relative power of the solo player. Oh god.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1003	Posted - 2015.12.30 12:20:07 - [47] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: Bad Messenger wrote: so if you use solo bs then how command destroyer can prevent you soloing? or did you ment that you can not deagro anymore and run like little girls do? I just meant if people are going to be penalised for using numbers, that will increase the relative power of the solo player. You're welcome and coincidentely very small and micro gangs. I love it. Having a handful of people to agree on how to proceed is much easier than telling 3485702566563815 people to press FONE at the same time on the same target - wait what are we shooting again??? No matter, it's toast now.. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Kagura Nikon Bon Jovian Drifters Did he say Jump 2136	Posted - 2015.12.30 15:08:13 - [48] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Danika Princip wrote: Doesn't scrambling the destroyer stop it? Locking a destroyer and activating a module on it under 6 seconds is not small feat for a battleship... Is the concept of 'bring support' dead then? No it's not dead but it can still happen and while you might realise what being in a BS imply, some people don't. There is a scan resolution threshold that a ship must pass for "well just scram it" to be an effective counter just like you need certain parameters for "just fly 6k away" to work also. The battleship is still left with less effective options than any other ship affected by the jump field generator to counter it. Kagura Nikon wrote: align on opposite direction and MJD back... You might get scrammed in your own spool-up. The destroyer will lock you fast enough that's for sure. If its a group fight some will escape, the destroyer will not scram several. If it is 1v1.. a Battleship with a half a brain can force a CD to its knees... Having a counters does nto mean somethign that works 100% of time, that would be to make the ship useles.. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1727	Posted - 2015.12.30 15:18:36 - [49] - Quote These jump bubble ships are a lot of fun. Three thumbs up. Instead of debating their tweeks and merits - go buy one, fit it out and do something unfair with it. I did a lot of "UGH" during this ship class' spool up to introduction. I was not pleased with the idea or with all the possible evil they could initiate. I WAS WRONG!!!! All I can say about these ships is "WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" TL/DR WEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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