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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Ptyler
Tech III Bone Cancer
0
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Posted - 2016.01.06 03:44:33 -
[31] - Quote
yes, let them in. considering every other t2 frigate can currently enter them, and considering command destroyers can currently enter them too, yes definitely let them in. |
Tenar Sparrowhawk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2016.01.06 04:01:25 -
[32] - Quote
+1 for consistency.
It's the only T2 small ship that can't fit into a Small plex.
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soranno
14th Legion
The Bloc
37
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Posted - 2016.01.06 05:09:44 -
[33] - Quote
Put simply, they should be allow into smalls as, in my opinion, they belong with Assault frigates and destroyers.
Consistency in plex restrictions is one factor, it is straighforward enough that a friage being restricted to mediums and up is incorrect. And that those mediums allow all forms of cruiser logi... does not compute.
Thank you for your attention on this matter. Have been trying to get attention for this from the week the ships were introduced. |
Ascentior
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
238
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Posted - 2016.01.06 05:20:16 -
[34] - Quote
Absolutely! It is where they belong.
Make no mistake, they will cause a stir. Another tool that will allow pricey ships to tank above their weight. And unfortunately, Amarr look to have drawn the short straw as the meta will favour kitey shield gangs over Armor. Lots of comments about 'easy counters' might be missing the mark a little.
Aldrith's point that alpha is king in smalls is right on the money. For the same reason that svipul gangs died laughably to t1 fit t1 destroyers in smalls.
Just to clarify a little, I don't believe consistency is relevant at all. Future decisions should not be made based on past mistakes. While I think the logi frig was quite clearly safe to those who are heavily invested in the FW meta, I would still prefer that the devs take extra time to do it right that just say "Screw balance, we must be consistent!"
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:It's literally the only trolly thing I can do in the entire game.
You're not fooling anyone.
Admiral of PIE Inc.,
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment)
Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy
Chosen by God to serve the Empire.
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Irsam Samri
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
51
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Posted - 2016.01.06 06:32:24 -
[35] - Quote
A BIG NO FROM ME.
but only to add a differing opinion. I want them in actually |
Charles Surge
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2016.01.06 08:09:33 -
[36] - Quote
Yes.
I dislike that Logistics Frigates not being allowed in Smalls was kept secret from the players.
I have enough problems and if these couldn't fit in Smalls, thinking about them again following this surprise was not a priority. I did the math just now for the first time ever on what they actually rep. Balancing them isn't my job. CCP has created this ship class, if their existence is not a mistake, let them be used. |
Castromil
Tech III Bone Cancer
0
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Posted - 2016.01.06 08:27:25 -
[37] - Quote
Yes definitely. |
trenny jr
Hoplite Brigade
13
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Posted - 2016.01.06 09:42:58 -
[38] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:IMO consistency is important:
Novice - T1 frig only
Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3)
Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3)
Large - anything goes
This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.
saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.
I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!
This is pretty much all the arguments you need |
Yngvar ayShorn
Einheit X-6
658
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Posted - 2016.01.06 11:44:36 -
[39] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:IMO consistency is important:
Novice - T1 frig only
Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3)
Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3)
Large - anything goes
This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.
saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.
I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!
+1 so much this.
So, yes, let them in.
21 Tage EVE testen! -->> Klick mich <<--
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Techno36
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
22
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:45:44 -
[40] - Quote
Yes let them in. The reps must flow. |
Ruby Gnollo
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:56:06 -
[41] - Quote
Quote: While these t2 logi frigs are extremely powerful against larger targets due to their low sig and high speed, frigates have no problem tracking them especially once theyre webbed down.
couldn't say it better |
ivona fly
Black Fox Marauders
30
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Posted - 2016.01.06 17:05:41 -
[42] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Allow them, maybe reduce the reps ? Like in a wh with an anomaly. Let's let them in first and see what happens before we start nerfng them in smalls.
This is correct lets see how they function first
I already see situations that would be scary for them, would you warp into 8 arty thrashers with them and be confident of getting reps on before second volley? you would probably lose at least 1 to derp fit 280 arties.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
13547
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Posted - 2016.01.07 13:50:38 -
[43] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
983
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Posted - 2016.01.07 14:12:31 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access.
you know that date hasnt been released anywhere else yet 
No Worries
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
13547
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Posted - 2016.01.07 14:20:41 -
[45] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access. you know that date hasnt been released anywhere else yet
We haven't been broadcasting it all that widely since it's a fairly small release, but it's not a secret. Our soundcloud page for the theme song and CCP Foxfour's third party developer blog both mention it for instance.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
983
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Posted - 2016.01.07 14:23:51 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access. you know that date hasnt been released anywhere else yet We haven't been broadcasting it all that widely since it's a fairly small release, but it's not a secret. Our soundcloud page for the theme song and CCP Foxfour's third party developer blog both mention it for instance.
ahh cool.... any info coming our way about the tribute thing?
No Worries
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2182
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Posted - 2016.01.07 17:14:56 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access.
Good change.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
361
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Posted - 2016.01.07 17:23:43 -
[48] - Quote
The dps to ehp ratio in smalls is skewed towards the dps because of the huge number of tech 1 destroyers. The tech 1 logi frigs die in droves because of the massive dps.
It's also the plex that uses the most ships with utility highs, neuts are MUCH more common in smalls than anywhere else. The only problem I see with allowing the tech 2 logi frigates in is that they may be a bit too fast.
A slight speed nerf so that they are easier to catch, and then a pretty massive speed boost to AFs would be in order. It's WAY past time for AFs to get their mass decreased. Make them faster than the logi frigs and give them a bit of a grid buff to fit a neut and you instantly have a nice counter to the tech 2 logi frigates.
Although something may have to be done about the rail harpy, because rail harpies and tech 2 logi frigs would be pretty disgusting. It would either need a nerf or the other "sniping" AFs would need to get the same double optimal bonus it gets. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force
A T O N E M E N T
720
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Posted - 2016.01.07 20:01:41 -
[49] - Quote
Fozzi, do you want my love or not? I have been complaining to corp mates all day about how lame it is that my logi frig cant get into small so my alt gets blapped. Yet command destoyers can fit with their uber tanks. I absolutely think they should.
Once we see how they work in small plexes then we can revisit thr questoon again. As of current i see no reason to bring my logi v frig with the gang when it can only go into mediums. It makes the decision either a bantam or a scythe. Doing this adds a lot of flexibility. |
Alexis Nightwish
379
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Posted - 2016.01.07 22:05:24 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access.
So player feedback works, but only if it's unanimous.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc.
The Ditanian Alliance
252
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Posted - 2016.01.08 04:04:20 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Additionally, it is generally true that something being overpowered with a group of friends is a significantly different issue than something being overpowered solo (like T3Ds) or soloish (like alt offgrid links).
^^ Exactly. T3D's were OP in small plexes because people were using them to farm solo and the only way to beat them is with more t3d's. This won't be a problem with logi. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2846
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Posted - 2016.01.08 07:03:16 -
[52] - Quote
I feel that if it's overpowered to let them into the site, either the ship is overpowered or the site is overpowered, and it is not the specific combination of the two that is at fault.
Now I am not against saying that both are a little overpowered...
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Milostiev
Full of Dreams
0
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:15:54 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello folks.
It's been almost a month since the Tech Two Logistics Frigates were released and I have a specific feedback request. We're interested in what you all think about the option of allowing these Logi Frigates into small FW complexes.
At launch we intentionally disallowed the Logi Frigates from small complexes, out of an abundance of caution and some concern that they might become oppressive in that environment. Now that the community has had a chance to play with them on TQ, we're revisiting the question.
They are oppressive in that environment.
Their RR range, coupled with difficulty of taking them down (small sig, decent ab speed, high resists and awesome overall ratio of EHP/sig ratio) make them very OP is small gang scenarios or solo work (when engaging someone who has them).
In larger gangs, as many have posted, they will not tip the balance well enough to be called OP, and miltias tend to go for doctrines of putting out good dps at range (at least in minnie vs amarr).
The potential counters to this is using your onboard scanner.
Then again, the frigate might be cloaked, which is fine because putting a cloak on these things, has serious drawbacks and cuts efficiency of the fit a lot.
Overall, the game will not be more affected by allowing them into smalls then it already is.
---
However, i would like to point something out.
The problem of logi also has to do with the fact their use does not show up on killmails, unless they choose to.
Ego aside (for those who kb stats matter), the killmail tells a story, and the change from mail to combat log with more details is a good change in that direction of telling the story of the engagement
The problem is that acts of support to the one who got the kill, are left out.
When you get the km, and you have lost (they had logi), you feel like the story out there is an incomplete one. It makes you feel resentfull, pissed and annoyed that it is your 'word' against theirs, that their entire gang is not visible, that you died to something that is not ... acknowledged.
Add logi's who just repp to killmails, and a good chunk of the rage ppl have at logi's will be gone.
Not to mention that you ppl who hunt gangs, will have a better view of the enemy, and kb warriors will be massively affected. |
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1463
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Posted - 2016.02.02 17:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
Milostiev wrote:
However, i would like to point something out.
The problem of logi also has to do with the fact their use does not show up on killmails, unless they choose to.
Yep, add them to killmails. Also add links to killmails. And put links on-grid and give them suspect or criminal timers where appropriate. That would change some things.
Do not run. We are your friends.
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