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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
13547
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Posted - 2016.01.05 17:50:49 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks.
It's been almost a month since the Tech Two Logistics Frigates were released and I have a specific feedback request. We're interested in what you all think about the option of allowing these Logi Frigates into small FW complexes.
At launch we intentionally disallowed the Logi Frigates from small complexes, out of an abundance of caution and some concern that they might become oppressive in that environment. Now that the community has had a chance to play with them on TQ, we're revisiting the question.
On the one hand, logistics is always a very powerful tool and I can easily see 1 combat ship plus 1-2 T2 logi being very hard to break in a small plex. The defensive position provided by FW complexes creates the potential for logistics to be more frustrating to fight than usual.
On the other hand, T1 Support Frigates aren't getting a lot of complaints and they can even be used in novices. Allowing the Logi Frigates into small plexes would also keep them consistent with other T2 frigates.
Additionally, it is generally true that something being overpowered with a group of friends is a significantly different issue than something being overpowered solo (like T3Ds) or soloish (like alt offgrid links).
So your thoughts and opinions on the issue are welcome. As always, answers with reasoning supporting your opinions are especially valuable. We brought the discussion up with the CSM earlier as well, but I'll let them share their individual opinions if and when they want to.
Thanks and happy new year!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Oddsodz
Rifterlings
Zero.Four Ops
171
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Posted - 2016.01.05 17:57:14 -
[2] - Quote
Simple answer.
Yes you should.
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Natheniel
Mostly Sober
Dead Terrorists
52
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:01:17 -
[3] - Quote
Yes
"Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
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Kalaratiri
Death By Design
Did he say Jump
756
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:04:27 -
[4] - Quote
I think in general it would be better to allow them into small plexes.
I have not seen them as particularly oppressive in any environment (yet at least), and I think the confusion of having a single branch of frigates not allowed into a plex that other t2 frigates can enter is not worth it.
While these t2 logi frigs are extremely powerful against larger targets due to their low sig and high speed, frigates have no problem tracking them especially once theyre webbed down. Having been in many 10-20 man frigate fleets with t1 frig logi, I've never seen them as being as totally controlling as cruiser logi due to the much smaller rep amounts. Lower frigate HP also allows the tactic of target switching to burn down targets before the logi can catch them much more easily.
So I vote yes.
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon
I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
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Heathen Blaggard
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
0
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:10:05 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, they should be allowed in. |
Fintarue
Rifterlings
Zero.Four Ops
19
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:10:38 -
[6] - Quote
Definitely stick with the consistency. Even t2 logi cruisers can go in mediums I believe.
Host of http://www.twitch.tv/fintarue Bringing you the best tunes for the trip to a new clone!
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP
The Marmite Collective
3103
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:11:41 -
[7] - Quote
Allow them, maybe reduce the reps ? Like in a wh with an anomaly.
DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode : Removed an accidental lock. Nothing happened. whistles innocently
Tora Bushido : Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
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Kirith Kodachi
Aideron Robotics
39
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:11:52 -
[8] - Quote
Since T1 logi frigs can get into novices and smalls, and T1 logi cruisers can get into mediums, not allowing T2 logi frigs into smalls squeezes them out of any niche in FW plexes, too big for smalls and too small for mediums.
In other words, yes to T2 Logi in Small plexes.
Hey, you let Command Dessies in and no one is complaining about them in smalls ( I think) |
Cabon Scout
Pyryt's Rest
4
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:12:46 -
[9] - Quote
Yes they should. You've given us an sufficient way to counter them - the faction navy frigs. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1242
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:25:01 -
[10] - Quote
The fun thing about small complexes is that logistics have a harsh diminishing return once you put 10 or more destroyers into one - DPS is so high and buffers so small that logi ships make little difference as people just get volleyed off field. The only time logi in small complexes matters is in smaller gang settings, which are more manageable with ewar.
I don't have a lot of experience with the logi frigs yet, but if I can recall they do not repair that much more than their T1 counterparts, but they are much more survivable. Simply burning through them with massive DPS should still be an option. In all I don't think they will cause much of a problem in smalls, except if paired with Command Destroyers. With their resistance bonuses and ability to fit bigger buffers, they might cause some problems... |
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Leonardo Adami
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
104
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Posted - 2016.01.05 18:49:11 -
[11] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Allow them, maybe reduce the reps ? Like in a wh with an anomaly.
Let's let them in first and see what happens before we start nerfng them in smalls. |
James Clough
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
30
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Posted - 2016.01.05 19:02:36 -
[12] - Quote
You let tech three destroyers in small for months, why not let t2 frigs in?
#GLITTER http://i.imgur.com/KXyHvqy.jpg
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Zenoidan
Icendus Corux
Quam'Nocent
26
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Posted - 2016.01.05 19:04:10 -
[13] - Quote
Yes.
The simple reason being small gang fights will be so much better in Small complexes.
Small complex = the new small gang place to be.
But seriously as others have said...you let T3D's in with out asking, knew they were OP, players gave feedback that it was OP and stupid for them to be in smalls, hell it took A LOT to get you guys to remove them.
Since day one of Logi Frig everyone has been miffed you wont let them into smalls. One again players gave feedback saying they should be let in.
Now this post? Just let them in already...
This would also sort of be better for assault frigs in a way since T3D's are not allowed in them anymore. And I would argue that you cant say the same for mediums because T3D's and Recons exist in those that once again will make small gang fights cancer with everyone flying a svipul. |
Alizabeth Vea
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
665
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:19:12 -
[14] - Quote
I prefer to fly logi, if possible. So, I would ask: what is the place for T2 logi frigs in FW if they are not allowed into smalls? For a medium, just ship up to a T1 logi cruiser. For a novice, use a T1 logi frig.
In what other scenarios do you see T2 logi frigs being used over other choices? In most cases it would seem to be wiser to take a T1 logi cruiser. The T1 logi cruiser is cheaper and generally more capable. Yes, I know it is slower and has more mass, but that doesn't seem to be a huge hindrance in most cases. Faction Warfare is the only place that one really sees fights filtered out by hull types. So, I say to let the T2 logi frigs into small plexes.
Forged in the fires of the forth Delve war, I've been to hell, and I'm back for more, so cap the gas and push back the door, turn fuel to fire, let the monster roar.
Retainer of House Sarum
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Super Chair
Project Cerberus
712
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:25:15 -
[15] - Quote
The raw dps output of dessies, new ewar frigs (and old ones too, <3 maulus, griffin, keres, and kitsune) combined with the new command dessies micro jump field means there are so many tools available to counter logi in smalls (Not to mention recent logi nerfs...). It'd be a complete waste of a ship class from a FW player perspective if they were not allowed in smalls (since you can just bring a t2 cruiser logi into a medium rather than a t2 frig). So yes, let them in. |
Gorski Car
687
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Posted - 2016.01.05 19:37:38 -
[16] - Quote
Yes they should be allowed in. They are not that big of a problem especially compared to say recons in mediums or pirate frigs in novices. But then again those arent that common anyway.
Collect this post
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Vivace Naaris
OpSec.
2
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:50:32 -
[17] - Quote
Yes, they should be allowed. I see very little reason not to. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Decayed Orbit
120
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:52:07 -
[18] - Quote
yes please. logi frig 5 just finished a few days ago! :D |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1242
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 19:58:26 -
[19] - Quote
Gorski Car wrote:Yes they should be allowed in. They are not that big of a problem especially compared to say recons in mediums or pirate frigs in novices. But then again those arent that common anyway.
You leave my Curse lurking in mediums alone. It's literally the only trolly thing I can do in the entire game. |
Matthew Dust
MATARSOC
Minmatar Republic Marines
53
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Posted - 2016.01.05 20:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yes and bring back td3's too everyone has the option to use them so it's only op for poor people who should join a community that works together to overcome ****. |
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Thorr VonAsgard
Never Surrender.
69
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Posted - 2016.01.05 20:20:40 -
[21] - Quote
Yes they should as other t2 frigs are already allowed
You miss blink ? Come and play with us at EVE-Lotteries.com !
Envie de fraicheur ? Frugu, le forum fruité est fait pour toi !
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Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
45
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Posted - 2016.01.05 20:30:22 -
[22] - Quote
Yes.
I wonder why you did this.
T3 Cruisers : not allowed in Medium Plexes = "Let's allow T3 Dessies in Smalls !!!!"
T2 Cruisers : allowed in Medium Plexes = "Let's not allow T2 Frig Logis in Smalls !!!"
CCP_Logic at his best.
*sigh*
*facepalm* |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
343
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Posted - 2016.01.05 20:43:57 -
[23] - Quote
IMO consistency is important:
Novice - T1 frig only
Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3)
Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3)
Large - anything goes
This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.
saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.
I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Esnaelc Sin'led
The Unchained Club
45
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Posted - 2016.01.05 20:47:40 -
[24] - Quote
Not even mentioning that Logi T2 would've been OP ASIDE T3Dessies, if those ones were still allowed in smalls.
Which they are not anymore, so why forbid frig logis in small ? The is just ... whatever.. |
Destman
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.01.05 21:30:37 -
[25] - Quote
If you want faction warfare to be about solo PVP, don't allow powerful logi into the sites. If you want faction warfare to be about group PVP, consider allowing powerfullogi to enter smaller sites.
I see more power logi in smaller sites as a good thing to promote faction warfare into being about group PVP rather then solo. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
1197
|
Posted - 2016.01.05 22:06:35 -
[26] - Quote
I hope you aren't implying that links aren't totally gamebreaking all the time
and yeah, logistics is horrible, but so is a bunch of other stuff like ecm and unkillable risk-free kiting ships. I guess let them in the plex if only to be consistent and not have exceptions for people to remember. |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc.
Ixtab.
340
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Posted - 2016.01.05 22:24:51 -
[27] - Quote
Yes, let them in.
Where else would you want them to be used in FW?
There are enough counters to them that can enter a small. (e-war frigs or simply the alpha from destroyers) |
Kalaratiri
Death By Design
Did he say Jump
756
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Posted - 2016.01.06 00:02:11 -
[28] - Quote
My god, 26 posts of people agreeing unanimously. Is this some kind of record?
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. - CCP Falcon
I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
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Varus Sakura
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
14
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Posted - 2016.01.06 00:48:11 -
[29] - Quote
I am a Faction Warfare pilot. I in the past flew logi in other areas of the game, and still fly guardians, augorors, and inquisitors routinely.
I trained Logistics Frigates to level 4 as soon as they were released, under the assumption / anticipation that they would be of great and frequent use to me as a faction warfare pilot.
I have not at this point ever flown one. There has not been a single situation where Logistics Frigates were available to me that it would have been preferable to fly one over a t1 or t2 logistics cruiser.
I would really like to fly one in the future; but in order for that to happen, they need to have a use case, insomuch as there is a situation where their use would be warranted of a different ship. |
Xavier Azabu
Tarantism
Paisti Syndicate
34
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Posted - 2016.01.06 01:40:05 -
[30] - Quote
I would put them in - as long as you continue to monitor them for balancing reasons.
I can understand your concern about putting them in at first. Small complexes seem like one of the few places in Eve to find a true solo experience.
However there are enough counters to warrant their use. I already see gangs in small complexes as well. Their addition would give faction warfare pilots an additional option for training and fleet composition.
Solo warfare generally depends upon the intel that you're not going to be facing too many enemies. This information is already provided by tools like D-Scan, Killmail API, and Local. |
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Ptyler
Tech III Bone Cancer
0
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Posted - 2016.01.06 03:44:33 -
[31] - Quote
yes, let them in. considering every other t2 frigate can currently enter them, and considering command destroyers can currently enter them too, yes definitely let them in. |
Tenar Sparrowhawk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2016.01.06 04:01:25 -
[32] - Quote
+1 for consistency.
It's the only T2 small ship that can't fit into a Small plex.
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soranno
14th Legion
The Bloc
37
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Posted - 2016.01.06 05:09:44 -
[33] - Quote
Put simply, they should be allow into smalls as, in my opinion, they belong with Assault frigates and destroyers.
Consistency in plex restrictions is one factor, it is straighforward enough that a friage being restricted to mediums and up is incorrect. And that those mediums allow all forms of cruiser logi... does not compute.
Thank you for your attention on this matter. Have been trying to get attention for this from the week the ships were introduced. |
Ascentior
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
238
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 05:20:16 -
[34] - Quote
Absolutely! It is where they belong.
Make no mistake, they will cause a stir. Another tool that will allow pricey ships to tank above their weight. And unfortunately, Amarr look to have drawn the short straw as the meta will favour kitey shield gangs over Armor. Lots of comments about 'easy counters' might be missing the mark a little.
Aldrith's point that alpha is king in smalls is right on the money. For the same reason that svipul gangs died laughably to t1 fit t1 destroyers in smalls.
Just to clarify a little, I don't believe consistency is relevant at all. Future decisions should not be made based on past mistakes. While I think the logi frig was quite clearly safe to those who are heavily invested in the FW meta, I would still prefer that the devs take extra time to do it right that just say "Screw balance, we must be consistent!"
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:It's literally the only trolly thing I can do in the entire game.
You're not fooling anyone.
Admiral of PIE Inc.,
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment)
Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy
Chosen by God to serve the Empire.
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Irsam Samri
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
51
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Posted - 2016.01.06 06:32:24 -
[35] - Quote
A BIG NO FROM ME.
but only to add a differing opinion. I want them in actually |
Charles Surge
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
19
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Posted - 2016.01.06 08:09:33 -
[36] - Quote
Yes.
I dislike that Logistics Frigates not being allowed in Smalls was kept secret from the players.
I have enough problems and if these couldn't fit in Smalls, thinking about them again following this surprise was not a priority. I did the math just now for the first time ever on what they actually rep. Balancing them isn't my job. CCP has created this ship class, if their existence is not a mistake, let them be used. |
Castromil
Tech III Bone Cancer
0
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 08:27:25 -
[37] - Quote
Yes definitely. |
trenny jr
Hoplite Brigade
13
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Posted - 2016.01.06 09:42:58 -
[38] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:IMO consistency is important:
Novice - T1 frig only
Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3)
Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3)
Large - anything goes
This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.
saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.
I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!
This is pretty much all the arguments you need |
Yngvar ayShorn
Einheit X-6
658
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 11:44:36 -
[39] - Quote
Ashterothi wrote:IMO consistency is important:
Novice - T1 frig only
Small - T1 and T2 destroyer down (no T3)
Medium -T1 and T2 cruiser (no T3)
Large - anything goes
This is easy to understand, process, and teach new players in a combat environment that is designed for newer players.
saying "You can have all T2 desy down, except T2 logi frigs" breaks any of the consistency, and causes even veteran players to become confused.
I say the simplicity and elegance of the rules are what is important here. Logi is far easier to counter then T3 destroyers are that is for sure!
+1 so much this.
So, yes, let them in.
21 Tage EVE testen! -->> Klick mich <<--
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Techno36
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
22
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:45:44 -
[40] - Quote
Yes let them in. The reps must flow. |
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Ruby Gnollo
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:56:06 -
[41] - Quote
Quote: While these t2 logi frigs are extremely powerful against larger targets due to their low sig and high speed, frigates have no problem tracking them especially once theyre webbed down.
couldn't say it better |
ivona fly
Black Fox Marauders
30
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Posted - 2016.01.06 17:05:41 -
[42] - Quote
Leonardo Adami wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Allow them, maybe reduce the reps ? Like in a wh with an anomaly. Let's let them in first and see what happens before we start nerfng them in smalls.
This is correct lets see how they function first
I already see situations that would be scary for them, would you warp into 8 arty thrashers with them and be confident of getting reps on before second volley? you would probably lose at least 1 to derp fit 280 arties.
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
13547
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Posted - 2016.01.07 13:50:38 -
[43] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
983
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 14:12:31 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access.
you know that date hasnt been released anywhere else yet 
No Worries
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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
13547
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Posted - 2016.01.07 14:20:41 -
[45] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access. you know that date hasnt been released anywhere else yet
We haven't been broadcasting it all that widely since it's a fairly small release, but it's not a secret. Our soundcloud page for the theme song and CCP Foxfour's third party developer blog both mention it for instance.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
983
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 14:23:51 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access. you know that date hasnt been released anywhere else yet We haven't been broadcasting it all that widely since it's a fairly small release, but it's not a secret. Our soundcloud page for the theme song and CCP Foxfour's third party developer blog both mention it for instance.
ahh cool.... any info coming our way about the tribute thing?
No Worries
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2182
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Posted - 2016.01.07 17:14:56 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access.
Good change.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
361
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Posted - 2016.01.07 17:23:43 -
[48] - Quote
The dps to ehp ratio in smalls is skewed towards the dps because of the huge number of tech 1 destroyers. The tech 1 logi frigs die in droves because of the massive dps.
It's also the plex that uses the most ships with utility highs, neuts are MUCH more common in smalls than anywhere else. The only problem I see with allowing the tech 2 logi frigates in is that they may be a bit too fast.
A slight speed nerf so that they are easier to catch, and then a pretty massive speed boost to AFs would be in order. It's WAY past time for AFs to get their mass decreased. Make them faster than the logi frigs and give them a bit of a grid buff to fit a neut and you instantly have a nice counter to the tech 2 logi frigates.
Although something may have to be done about the rail harpy, because rail harpies and tech 2 logi frigs would be pretty disgusting. It would either need a nerf or the other "sniping" AFs would need to get the same double optimal bonus it gets. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force
A T O N E M E N T
720
|
Posted - 2016.01.07 20:01:41 -
[49] - Quote
Fozzi, do you want my love or not? I have been complaining to corp mates all day about how lame it is that my logi frig cant get into small so my alt gets blapped. Yet command destoyers can fit with their uber tanks. I absolutely think they should.
Once we see how they work in small plexes then we can revisit thr questoon again. As of current i see no reason to bring my logi v frig with the gang when it can only go into mediums. It makes the decision either a bantam or a scythe. Doing this adds a lot of flexibility. |
Alexis Nightwish
379
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Posted - 2016.01.07 22:05:24 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. We're currently planning on granting the Logi Frigates access to small complexes in our January release next Tuesday. We'll continue monitoring from there to ensure that they work out well with the new access.
So player feedback works, but only if it's unanimous.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc.
The Ditanian Alliance
252
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Posted - 2016.01.08 04:04:20 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Additionally, it is generally true that something being overpowered with a group of friends is a significantly different issue than something being overpowered solo (like T3Ds) or soloish (like alt offgrid links).
^^ Exactly. T3D's were OP in small plexes because people were using them to farm solo and the only way to beat them is with more t3d's. This won't be a problem with logi. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2846
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Posted - 2016.01.08 07:03:16 -
[52] - Quote
I feel that if it's overpowered to let them into the site, either the ship is overpowered or the site is overpowered, and it is not the specific combination of the two that is at fault.
Now I am not against saying that both are a little overpowered...
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Milostiev
Full of Dreams
0
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:15:54 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello folks.
It's been almost a month since the Tech Two Logistics Frigates were released and I have a specific feedback request. We're interested in what you all think about the option of allowing these Logi Frigates into small FW complexes.
At launch we intentionally disallowed the Logi Frigates from small complexes, out of an abundance of caution and some concern that they might become oppressive in that environment. Now that the community has had a chance to play with them on TQ, we're revisiting the question.
They are oppressive in that environment.
Their RR range, coupled with difficulty of taking them down (small sig, decent ab speed, high resists and awesome overall ratio of EHP/sig ratio) make them very OP is small gang scenarios or solo work (when engaging someone who has them).
In larger gangs, as many have posted, they will not tip the balance well enough to be called OP, and miltias tend to go for doctrines of putting out good dps at range (at least in minnie vs amarr).
The potential counters to this is using your onboard scanner.
Then again, the frigate might be cloaked, which is fine because putting a cloak on these things, has serious drawbacks and cuts efficiency of the fit a lot.
Overall, the game will not be more affected by allowing them into smalls then it already is.
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However, i would like to point something out.
The problem of logi also has to do with the fact their use does not show up on killmails, unless they choose to.
Ego aside (for those who kb stats matter), the killmail tells a story, and the change from mail to combat log with more details is a good change in that direction of telling the story of the engagement
The problem is that acts of support to the one who got the kill, are left out.
When you get the km, and you have lost (they had logi), you feel like the story out there is an incomplete one. It makes you feel resentfull, pissed and annoyed that it is your 'word' against theirs, that their entire gang is not visible, that you died to something that is not ... acknowledged.
Add logi's who just repp to killmails, and a good chunk of the rage ppl have at logi's will be gone.
Not to mention that you ppl who hunt gangs, will have a better view of the enemy, and kb warriors will be massively affected. |
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1463
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Posted - 2016.02.02 17:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
Milostiev wrote:
However, i would like to point something out.
The problem of logi also has to do with the fact their use does not show up on killmails, unless they choose to.
Yep, add them to killmails. Also add links to killmails. And put links on-grid and give them suspect or criminal timers where appropriate. That would change some things.
Do not run. We are your friends.
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