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Clementina Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.01.21 16:31:00 - [31] This game is not very newbie friendly, and that is unfortunate. It is however, very casual friendly. You don't need to grind for skills, ships that you have flown as a newbie, you can still get the same use out of them when you're a vet, and the fact that people lose stuff when they get popped means that there is a cap to how uber a particular person's setup can be. This means that your 2004 era vet can be flying a Incursus when you face him or her as easily as they could be flying a battleship. And if you are unusually busy at work for a week or two, you don't get outskilled by your corpmates.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.01.21 16:32:00 - [32] Edited by: Soulita on 21/01/2007 16:30:00 Originally by: Galk Maybe the naysayers that disagree would care to check out the recruitment forum, how many corps playing 'the real game' require you to have X ammount of skillpoints these days Why ffs, just why... discriminate elitism? Obviously has nothing to do with what players can't do, you guys have explained that as being a non issue CCP though don't share the wisdom of the most informed amoung us.... last years increased bloodline stats.. devaluing the price of implants, increased starting skillpoints in the last publish. The op obviously feels that does not go far enough, it's understandable imo. There is plenty of corps/alliances around that will take you on board as a low skillpoint char. All that is needed is an app to Eve-Uni, or a post in the recruitment forums. Not that hard to do, tbh.
wierchas noobhunter	Posted - 2007.01.21 16:32:00 - [33] Originally by: Becham I If your idea of fully playing the game is to have a limited role as a T1 frigate tackler for 6 or 7 months while you wait to step into a ship that doesn't explode in one volley, you are the one who is missing the point. Perhaps it is because you have been around a long time and didn't experience what newer players experience today. Who can say. in that time u will be semi ok raven or domi pilot ffs ....
Becham	Posted - 2007.01.21 16:45:00 - [34] Edited by: Becham on 21/01/2007 16:44:40 Quote: "My question to the OP is if hes spent much time in any sort of multiple ship op with a goal. If so, and he stands by his post, then this game is prolly not for him. Its not a FPS in space." Yes, I did spend much time in such ops. I joined a great 0.0 corp in the 2nd week of the game. I went on multiple ops of roving patrols and system defense. The corp was very good, if anything it enhanced the game for me and probably added 3 months to the time I spent here. You are right, as I stated the game is not for me for the reasons I've stated. I don't want to wait 8 months to recieve my FPS character.
Calladen Nimitz Caldari Sovereign Labs	Posted - 2007.01.21 16:46:00 - [35] I still cant fly Hacs or Carriers and Ive been around since Beta. Is that a skill divide? Nope its my choice. I've excelled in particular areas I've focused on and ignored those that havent interested me. I can build a mothership but I sure cant fly one. Its my choice. Also dont forget there are plenty of players out there who help new players. I live next door to a 1.0 new player system and frequently see "what is......" in local. Keep a stock of noob frigates with mining lasers handy, hand out learning skillpacks, direct them to the http://www.evegathering.com new player tutorial thats IG browser compatible. You can help them start on the right foot. I'm glad its like it is. Sure its time delayed but isnt life? When something is handed to someone it isnt coveted as much as something earned. Eve is kind of like that as well. In that way its more "real life" then you could imagine. Calladen SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.21 16:46:00 - [36] While not aggreeing with the OP (I personally think EVE is worth sticking around for), I do get slightly sick of people pretending that skillpoints / T2 don't matter. Try fighting a T2 kitted Recon gang with noobs in T1 Frigs and go prove me wrong. While it's true you only need x-ammount of skillpoints to max out a (T2)Frigate, that is far from the only skillpoints a new player will train. The first months, you will need to put skillpoints in Learning, the basic Engineering and Electronics skills, your basic weapon and tanking choices, the basic Navigation Skills, etc. If you dont start the game with mates and just have one account, you might consider training up some Social/Industrial/Science/Trade skills as well. Then you need to decide on what you want to spec in, which is easy when you look back, but a lot harder if you step into EVE for the first time. Before Kali, that was allready about 6 months training time before you can consider yourself somewhat specialised. For a game, that is a long time to invest. I would like to think that CCP aggree, as in Kali, they changed Learning Skills and let people start with better stats / skills fresh after creation. Also, if skillpoints matter that little, why do several of the better PVP outfits have Skillpoint requirements of 10, 15 or even 20M?
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 16:51:00 - [37] As a rule of thumb, the higher the rank of the skill, the less of an impact it has. case in point: Racial frigate (rank 1). takes about 10 days to train to level 5. Result? You go from being able to fly tech 1 frigates to flying tech 2 frigates. Advanced Weapon Upgrades (rank 6): takes about 36 days to train to level. Result? the powergrid need to fit any gun or missile launcher to my ships drops by a measly 2%. is also one of four requisite skills for using a siege module on a dreadnought - an effect which is of no use whatsoever if you aren't a dreadnought pilot. So, low end skills produce big results. you get very tangible improvements out of them. Higher end skills are all about refining your performance by small increments. They give an edge, but not a big one by any means... and having the ability to fit that extra tachyon II to my Geddon is of limited use if I've been ECM'd by somebody with a tenth of my skill points flying a blackbird, and can't shoot anything. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Becham If your idea of fully playing the game is to have a limited role as a T1 frigate tackler for 6 or 7 months while you wait to step into a ship that doesn't explode in one volley, you are the one who is missing the point. Well then, I guess if it really comes down to it then no, you won't be competing on the same level with veterans for at least 6 months. But is your ego really that brittle that you can't simply accept that there will always be someone who's better than you? Again this is how it works in most MMOs. To compare, it took me 2 years to reach a stage in Dark Age of Camelot where I could take on veterans and win consistantly. Mostly because by that time, I had become a veteran myself. But that doesn't mean that I spend the many months leading up to that point crying myself to sleep every night because some guy on the server had more realm points than me. So the notion of veterans being better at PVP is not exclusive to EVE. Heck in some of them the age of your account grants you extra abilities to the point where new account owners are in a league of their own. Long story short, EVE's skillpoint curve ain't so bad when compared to the effort required to get on top of the foodchain in other MMOs.
Valan	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:10:00 - [39] Edited by: Valan on 21/01/2007 17:08:13 When I started people had battleships and I could barely fly a cruiser, so what. It also took a month to get a cruiser, not 5 minutes like it does now. EDIT if they make this game any easier than it is now for noobs it will be Teletubbies in space. Even the rat spawns are easier and give more isk. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:13:00 - [40] Originally by: Clementina This game is not very newbie friendly, and that is unfortunate. It is however, very casual friendly. You don't need to grind for skills, ships that you have flown as a newbie, you can still get the same use out of them when you're a vet, and the fact that people lose stuff when they get popped means that there is a cap to how uber a particular person's setup can be. This means that your 2004 era vet can be flying a Incursus when you face him or her as easily as they could be flying a battleship. And if you are unusually busy at work for a week or two, you don't get outskilled by your corpmates. Just to say - EVE is newbie friendly. But it's very, very unfriendly to those who come to it with the wrong attitude.
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:13:00 - [41] Originally by: Valan When I started people had battleships and I could barely fly a cruiser, so what. It also took a month to get a cruiser, not 5 minutes like it does now. Aye, it's not like 'twas in t' olden days.... why, I use to have to fly fifteen kilometers to t' gate and t' station, all in t' cold hard vacuum o' space... aye, them were the days.... +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:16:00 - [42] Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Valan When I started people had battleships and I could barely fly a cruiser, so what. It also took a month to get a cruiser, not 5 minutes like it does now. Aye, it's not like 'twas in t' olden days.... why, I use to have to fly fifteen kilometers to t' gate and t' station, all in t' cold hard vacuum o' space... aye, them were the days.... AND pay't Mill owner fer't privelidge!
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:18:00 - [43] Aye, and when I got back to t' station, t' CEO'd pod me and bathe in m'pod goop. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Gretek Lal Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:22:00 - [44] I've never understood why some people tie their sense of self-worth to what level they are in a computer game. They bring the same rat-race, stressed-out mentality that gives them ulcers in RL to Eve. It's pathetic. Eve is not about 'winning' or sweating on that treadmill to be better than somebody else. It's about doing your thing and having fun. You can have fun on day one and on day 365. Eve gives you a platform to do and be many different things. Join a corp where others can help you. Or play solo. Be a pvp-er or just explore the galaxy, stopping here and there to mine a little Veldspar. Relax and enjoy the game.
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:22:00 - [45] Originally by: Stitcher Aye, and when I got back to t' station, t' CEO'd pod me and bathe in m'pod goop. LUXURY!
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 17:24:00 - [46] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Stitcher Aye, and when I got back to t' station, t' CEO'd pod me and bathe in m'pod goop. LUXURY! Aye, t'were a good life... not like today.... +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
x racer	Posted - 2007.01.21 18:52:00 - [47] Originally by: Galk Maybe the naysayers that disagree would care to check out the recruitment forum, how many corps playing 'the real game' require you to have X ammount of skillpoints these days Why ffs, just why... discriminate elitism? Obviously has nothing to do with what players can't do, you guys have explained that as being a non issue CCP though don't share the wisdom of the most informed amoung us.... last years increased bloodline stats.. devaluing the price of implants, increased starting skillpoints in the last publish. The op obviously feels that does not go far enough, it's understandable imo. The best alliances and corps are invite only. x
Nastratu Minmatar Serefon Creatin	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:02:00 - [48] You just have to learn to enjoy what you have at each stage in EVE. Not state that since you can't fly that T2 outfitted HAC right here and now, the game sucks. I remember from my newbie days, we killed quite a few T2 ships, with group effort and 1vs1 ganks as well (and they killed plenty of us too). And that was fun. You know EVE is a very complex game. I found that that time I spent training my skills, those months upon months until I got to the T2 stuff, I really needed to learn more about the game, so that later I won't make some very stupid and expensive mistakes. I needed that time to do some trial and error in cheaper ships, to sit here on forums and read occassionally. It is not just your character's skills. It is also your own skill and knowledge that needs improvement. And that requires some real time. And yes, for most of us with work/school and busy schedule it does take months to read about every aspect of EVE and piece it all together. So I don't really see any problem being limited in your character's abilities for a while until you yourself gain more advanced knowledge about how the game works. And btw you can always buy a skilled character if you want.
Pholocix Digital Horizons Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:09:00 - [49] Ah yes the old days. I remember having to fly to the station to change out jobs, back when you had to find an open spot to rent. Back when we could only afford to have 20 labs in the station. I also remember mining hemorphite in an imicus, with miner 1's, uphill both ways! I won't lie and say SP don't matter at all, but its not the end all. One of my 7m SP alts could own my 41M sp main. But if your moving on, I wish you well. Just don't go Halo2, please! M1cro$oft has enough of your soul already. If you found yourself in a fair fight your intel sucks.
Araxmas Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:15:00 - [50] Ah not this old topic again. 1, Why does everyone think you have to be t2 to do stuff in eve. Sure 1v1 if your not t2 than you are at a dis-advantage but not all the time, especially in fleets. 2, T1 ships aren't a joke. For starters if your gallente than the celestis is a nasty piece of work with its targetting range damps. 3, There are T1 versions of T2 items, they cost a-bit but they don't require skills. 4, New characters have already given a huge sp boost. You can pretty much get a t2 assualt frig without too long training, sure you cant t2 mod it up but the ship itself is nasty. --------
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Sophism Edited by: Sophism on 21/01/2007 15:15:59 Did you know that everything in your post is far from being correct? A player with 1 mill Sp's is a valuable asset just as much as a 200mill SP player. Maybe from a gang/corp perspective, but I think his (very valid) point is that he's not having as much fun by being the disposable noob tackler in the throwaway ship as the T2 sniper guy.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:26:00 - [52] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Theres a guy in my corp who can fly motherships and titans but loves flying a t1 destroyer and popping pods :) How about you build him a mothership / titan then and see if he still does that? ;-)
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.01.21 19:29:00 - [53] Edited by: Soulita on 21/01/2007 19:29:03 Originally by: x racer Originally by: Galk Maybe the naysayers that disagree would care to check out the recruitment forum, how many corps playing 'the real game' require you to have X ammount of skillpoints these days Why ffs, just why... discriminate elitism? Obviously has nothing to do with what players can't do, you guys have explained that as being a non issue CCP though don't share the wisdom of the most informed amoung us.... last years increased bloodline stats.. devaluing the price of implants, increased starting skillpoints in the last publish. The op obviously feels that does not go far enough, it's understandable imo. The best alliances and corps are invite only. x Define "best" please. The same crop that is the "best" for one player might be the "worst" for another. For new players I see Eve-Uni as the arguably "best" corp. I dont think that is invite only.
Tal Zokof	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:18:00 - [54] i have no problem with waiting 6-8 months to fly a realy good ship but in the mean time i realy cant do anything because the idiot griefers in there t3 ships like to play god and to all that say sp dont mean anything i will put up 500mil isk that the person with 2m sp in a t1 ship agianst a person with 10m sp in gunnery and drones and a t2 ship that if the t1 person wins he gets the money no the t1 ship had all t1 epuip and the t2 has t2 guns only now who wants to take me up on this all u people that say sp dont matter come line up
Tal Zokof	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:20:00 - [55] now also both fly the same ship of course left that out and same weapons except t1 guns and t2 and the better sps just to clear that up also sorry my enlish is second language
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:30:00 - [56] this char only has 21mil sp and i can pvp with the best of them. my second character only has 11mil sp and i can still pvp with the best of them, specialization is your friend
Tal Zokof	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:43:00 - [57] when u people listen to what we are saying 11mil sp 22mil sp we are talking about 2mil sp please read next time it will take like we said 6months if not more to get 10mil sp the ones with 2m dont stand a chance oh sure we can takle till a t2 ship wants to target us instead and pop we go now that was fun agian i dont mind the time ivestment but the people who want to shot noobs are pushing alot out of game u wont go shot bigger targets cause u are scared they will fight back you are the tipical playground bullies again sure i can spend 30m getting a group together hoping he is still there and then spend another 30m finding him hoping he is not cloaked so i just spent 1hr out of my time when i just want to rat in peace no one still has given valided resonds for griefing
Valan	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Stitcher Originally by: Valan When I started people had battleships and I could barely fly a cruiser, so what. It also took a month to get a cruiser, not 5 minutes like it does now. Aye, it's not like 'twas in t' olden days.... why, I use to have to fly fifteen kilometers to t' gate and t' station, all in t' cold hard vacuum o' space... aye, them were the days.... AND pay't Mill owner fer't privelidge! lol didn't have to fly 15km :) Just putting out there is always somebody with more. You either get on with it or whine like a 4 year old girl. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Ryas Nia Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.21 20:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Mi Lai Also, if skillpoints matter that little, why do several of the better PVP outfits have Skillpoint requirements of 10, 15 or even 20M? Most often its a way of only highering people who have been playing for 1+ years who know the game and the mechanics. They dont care about the SP as much as they do your commitment to the game and your corporation. SP help they make fitting a gang out for specific tasks much simpler because you know your going to have enough inty/recon/commandship pilots to fill out the gang. SP is like isk more of it makes things simpler but it does not win the game.
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.21 21:02:00 - [60] Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 21/01/2007 20:59:02 Quote: when u people listen to what we are saying 11mil sp 22mil sp we are talking about 2mil sp please read next time it will take like we said 6months if not more to get 10mil sp i cant think of any other mmo where you can take 2-3 one month old chars and go kill someone who has been playing for 2+ years apart from eve. 11mil sp isnt much when you consider the majority of people in 0.0 probably have 40mil sp. theres people in the same alliance as me who have been in 0.0 since there chars were born and they have never complained about anything

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