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Becham
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:14:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Becham on 21/01/2007 15:10:59
I recently canceled my account and thought I would depart with a review to keep the ongoing discussion alive regarding the skill divide separating the new players from the established.
In my opinion the real-time-based skill system is deeply flawed for a game where combat plays like a non-twitch FPS but with a diversity of skills. There is nothing anyone can do to catch up to the skills of those who have been around for years because there is no way to buy time. Those who started out at Eve's beginning were able to enjoy a game where they didn't have to catch up because everyone was going at the same pace. The early game was more like a FPS with choices to make along the way, which must have made it great, I am sorry I missed it.
At present, to get into the real meat & potatoes of Eve, it is a game of waiting around for 7 or 8 months until you can fly & fit T2 mods and actually play a role in a PvP fight. T1 ships and mods are a joke, and after 3 months out in 0.0 space, I have yet to come across an enemy that wasn't in one T2 ship or another. The carebear game is just too drab to occupy the bulk of the time while waiting the eons neccesary for skills to mature. The only way I could make any kind of contribution to my corp was to go mining as much as possible. No thanks.
This is my view, your mileage my vary.
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Lance Hawke
Beyond Divinity Inc
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:15:00 -
[2]
stuff, etc.
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Light Elf
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:16:00 -
[3]
Did you know the average amount of time a player spends in eve is 7 months?
p.s can i have your stuff |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/01/2007 15:14:29
 Originally by: Becham
In my opinion the real-time-based skill system is deeply flawed for a game where combat plays like a non-twitch FPS but with a diversity of skills. There is nothing anyone can do to catch up to the skills of those who have been around for years because there is no way to buy time. Those who started out at Eve's beginning were able to enjoy a game where they didn't have to catch up because everyone was going at the same pace. The early game was more like a FPS with choices to make along the way, which must have made it great, I am sorry I missed it.
This has been said a thousand times, and its totally wrong.
There's a maximum amount of skillpoints in any particular category. Say, for piloting an Enyo, after 10 million skillpoints or so, you're not going to get any better at it. Same for any other ship in the game.
All skillpoints do is give you more possibilities for diversification. Past a point which does not take too long to pass for any single ship, you are no worse than a veteran. If anything, you have the advantage, because veterans have wasted 10s of millions of skillpoints on things that were nerfed and changed. Today, you have the benefit of years of wisdom by others.
Originally by: Becham
At present, to get into the real meat & potatoes of Eve, it is a game of waiting around for 7 or 8 months until you can fly & fit T2 mods and actually play a role in a PvP fight. T1 ships and mods are a joke, and after 3 months out in 0.0 space, I have yet to come across an enemy that wasn't in one T2 ship or another. The carebear game is just too drab to occupy the bulk of the time while waiting the eons neccesary for skills to mature. The only way I could make any kind of contribution to my corp was to go mining as much as possible. No thanks.
Totally wrong, but the worst part about that is the attitude.
You don't "need" a T2-fitted battleship to play EVE and have fun. With that kind of logic, the only way to have fun driving is with a Ferrari. Or the only way to enjoy watching a movie is with a 5,000 dollar HDTV and stereo system.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Sophism
Amarr
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:19:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sophism on 21/01/2007 15:15:59
Did you know that everything in your post is far from being correct?
A player with 1 mill Sp's is a valuable asset just as much as a 200mill SP player. You can still fly a tackler which every gang needs. And you can easily specialize in something and be better or just as good as the player who has played 3 years.
IBTDS
(edit) damn the crazy mofo beat me to it.
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Becham
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:23:00 -
[6]
Quote:
This has been said a thousand times, and its totally wrong.
Why then do you presume it has been said a thousand times? I gave it nearly 4 months, it's not like I logged in once and threw my hands up.
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x racer
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:25:00 -
[7]
I think you missed something and here it is:
Theres a role in PVP for players from day one in eve. Scouting and Tackling are the most critical jobs in PVP. This is the true genius of CCP in my opinion.
Most gangs I have ever been in have been short on these roles because, like the OP, most people think you need t2 whatever and BS's rule the Universe.
Of course, if your a solo player, eve prolly is not for you anyways.
Good luck in your search for the perfect game for you,
x |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:25:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/01/2007 15:21:55
Originally by: Becham
Quote:
This has been said a thousand times, and its totally wrong.
Why then do you presume it has been said a thousand times? I gave it nearly 4 months, it's not like I logged in once and threw my hands up.
What do you mean?
Its been said a thousand times because I've been a forum hoe for two yeas and I've seen this kind of post over and over and over.
Its probably the most common "I'M QUITTING" post there is. I mean seriously, you could template it and nobody would know the difference because its so common.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Yukami Kido
Caldari
Adeptus Illuminati Aegis Authentica
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:30:00 -
[9]
not the "omg noobs cant catch up to vets" argument again....
seriusly as others have said this argument is so old it isnt even funny. as well as being old as hell its so wrong it isnt even funny. as others have said you can specialise and be usefull from day one you just have to be smart about it.
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Tal Zokof
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:34:00 -
[10]
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
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Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
You are wrong. See Dark Shikari's post, for he speaks truth.
Sigs are for noobs. |
Prime Entity
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
I think I am going to need a special pair of glasses to understand what you have typed.
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Joe
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:45:00 -
[13]
I think Interceptors are the most enjoyable ships in the game, and they only require about 1.5m sp Including Tech II turrets.
when i'm cruising in my Taranis i'm using 1/40 th of my sp, the rest is wasted.
I could do everything I want in eve with about 6-7m Sp, pvp, npc, and missions, Ive wasted 10's of millions of Sp to figure that out.
Pe0w |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/01/2007 15:21:55
Originally by: Becham
Quote:
This has been said a thousand times, and its totally wrong.
Why then do you presume it has been said a thousand times? I gave it nearly 4 months, it's not like I logged in once and threw my hands up.
What do you mean?
Its been said a thousand times because I've been a forum hoe for two yeas and I've seen this kind of post over and over and over.
Its probably the most common "I'M QUITTING" post there is. I mean seriously, you could template it and nobody would know the difference because its so common.
It's true, alot of folks come to Eve with the Skill points = Levels = Progress mentality and just can't or won't get their heads around the difference.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Forum Troll
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:46:00 -
[15]
Can I have your stuff?
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Light Elf
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
Originally by: Oveur
the average EVE player only stays for 7 months.
Theres some 'bull honky' from a dev blog for you
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:57:00 -
[17]
Eve is easier for new players now than it was when i started. I couldn't afford a cruiser for about a month. Didn't fly a battleships until after about 6 months... though that was mainly due to laziness.
I started with about 70k sp, now you start with 10 times that. When I started there were just frigs cruisers and battleships. Now you have destroyers and battlecruisers as space fillers. When I started space was dangerous. now it is safe for all.
As for t1 being a joke? Tell that to the command cruisers that my myrmidin has raped.
You have it easy, but if you can't hack it, then quiting is the right choice.
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scabbsssjr
Gallente
M'8'S
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Becham
Edited by: Becham on 21/01/2007 15:10:59
SP MEANS EVERYTHING
Eve is not just about SP. A 2 week old players is just as deadly as a 2 year old player in a gang. It takes very little skill to tackle which is a very useful job to full fill.
Can the devs just make one sticky were everyone can post their "I AM QUITING" whine?
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What ever I say is my own views and not of my corp. |
Malcanis
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Becham
Edited by: Becham on 21/01/2007 15:10:59
I recently canceled my account and thought I would depart with a review to keep the ongoing discussion alive regarding the skill divide separating the new players from the established.
In my opinion the real-time-based skill system is deeply flawed for a game where combat plays like a non-twitch FPS but with a diversity of skills. There is nothing anyone can do to catch up to the skills of those who have been around for years because there is no way to buy time. Those who started out at Eve's beginning were able to enjoy a game where they didn't have to catch up because everyone was going at the same pace. The early game was more like a FPS with choices to make along the way, which must have made it great, I am sorry I missed it.
At present, to get into the real meat & potatoes of Eve, it is a game of waiting around for 7 or 8 months until you can fly & fit T2 mods and actually play a role in a PvP fight. T1 ships and mods are a joke, and after 3 months out in 0.0 space, I have yet to come across an enemy that wasn't in one T2 ship or another. The carebear game is just too drab to occupy the bulk of the time while waiting the eons neccesary for skills to mature. The only way I could make any kind of contribution to my corp was to go mining as much as possible. No thanks.
This is my view, your mileage my vary.
I respectfully disagree. I've been playing less than 5 months and I have seen and contributed to PvP. What you *can't* do is fly the biggest and best straight away.
That's the way I like it. In a YEAR, I will still have something to look forward to.
Did you master everything that you could do with a frigate? I suspect not. Your complaint is premature. Frigate FunÖ is just as much meat & potatoes (well maybe cheeseburger & fries) as flying a t2-fitted BS.
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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:02:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Soulita on 21/01/2007 16:00:16
"Is EVE new player friendly?"
That depends completely on you, and a bit of luck in finding the right corp.
The key is: Look for a corp to join asap. Ask questions and learn. Listen to the vets advice, most of them know what they are talking about.
An example of a good crop to join for new players is Eve-Uni.
Skillpoints are of far less importance than knowledge of the game, and a good bunch of peeps to hang around with.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:05:00 -
[21]
Of my 36m SP, probably only 6m is of any use when flying an interceptor, and I am not quick to attack noobs in Arbitrators, Vexors and Ruptures because they would comfortably own me with a cheap T1 fitting - and in the past, have.
So you are wrong. You needed to find yourself a place where people would have been happy to develop you as a PVPer as part of a team, rather than compare yourself alone to some guy in a HAC.
Logoffs on Fraps
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Lt Hole
Caldari
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:08:00 -
[22]
Only the strongest gamers can handle Eve.
If you're nervous, smacktalk in local.
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JoDirt
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:10:00 -
[23]
you don't use 2 years worth of sp all at the same time. 4 months and you can easily fit medium T2 guns and mods. just need to plan your skills effectively.
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Luckily my neck broke my fall... |
Nir
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:12:00 -
[24]
For a MMO the learning curve in EVE is just fine. The key thing about EVE is that you can PVP and do most other aspects of the game right from the bat. I'm scratching my head to think of a profession a newbie could not get into within the 14 days of his trial. There is no locked away content, no minimum level or rank before you can enter a PVP battleground like you'll find in some games.
Sure there is a lot of info to take in but again not really any more than most MMORPGs i've played. I'm willing to bet most people who quit because they think the learning curve is too high had never played a MMO prior to EVE.
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Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:12:00 -
[25]
The most popular ship on our killboard is a fully t1 fitted carcal. A good scout and decent FC are worth 10x the value of uber ships and equipment.
The new T2 BC's are awsome, i can fly gallente hac's but havnt even bothered buying one. Myrmidon > Ishtar by miles.
Theres a guy in my corp who can fly motherships and titans but loves flying a t1 destroyer and popping pods :)
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x racer
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Newsflash; 4x t2 drones do a number on t2 frigates too
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
I think most are saying get in a T1 frigate and learn how to tackle, how gangs work, how not to die, and scouting. Most corps give t1 frigates and basic mods for free. Does not take much ratting, missions or mining to afford free. Clones are also much, much, cheaper for low skill point players.
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
People that do the trial and quit, kill the average. Whats unusual in the OP's case, and the only reason I am posting here is that the OP has been in the game for 4 months and put his "Oh Noes, I just realised I can never catch up in SP's" obligatory post.
My guess is that he just logs on to change skill training and has messed around a bit doing a few things some have suggested. In between taking head shots on BF, of course.
My question to the OP is if hes spent much time in any sort of multiple ship op with a goal. If so, and he stands by his post, then this game is prolly not for him. Its not a FPS in space.
cheers,
x
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Won Swunglow
Dead By Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:17:00 -
[27]
as a 34mill skill point char, i can honestly say skill points arent everything...
Last week i was bored, so i created a new minmitard alt, gave him 1.5mill isk, stuck him in a rifter, and went straight to low sec, where i was chased around a sys for a few mins, then met up with a guy i had never seen before, and we proceeded to kill 2 intys and a thorax.
It wasnt my skillpoints that helped, it was the 3 years i've spent in this game, and the ability to get along with others.
This game is all about groups... 5 x 1 day old chars can easily take down a T2 fitted ship in low sec.
Trust me i've done it, and it was fun \0/
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Ashurn
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:21:00 -
[28]
The only few activities I can think of that requires ****-load of Tech 2 items are;
1.) Solo Level 4 missions, all of 'em including few of the hardest ones.
2.) Solo PVPing
3.) Ego/Muscle Flexing! (till you get blown up by couple of pilots in Tech 1 ships with Tech 1 fittings anyway) 
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Galk
Gallente
Autumn Tactics
All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:22:00 -
[29]
Maybe the naysayers that disagree would care to check out the recruitment forum, how many corps playing 'the real game' require you to have X ammount of skillpoints these days
Why ffs, just why... discriminate elitism?
Obviously has nothing to do with what players can't do, you guys have explained that as being a non issue
CCP though don't share the wisdom of the most informed amoung us.... last years increased bloodline stats.. devaluing the price of implants, increased starting skillpoints in the last publish.
The op obviously feels that does not go far enough, it's understandable imo.
______
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Becham
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:26:00 -
[30]
I agree, the learning curve in Eve is not very long. I got the gist of it in a matter of a week or so and I can assure you I have not won any Nobel prizes. The time based skills are however very long and even the MMOG genius can't do anything to speed it up. You could be a brilliant nuclear physicist and you still can't get into a T2 ship.
If your idea of fully playing the game is to have a limited role as a T1 frigate tackler for 6 or 7 months while you wait to step into a ship that doesn't explode in one volley, you are the one who is missing the point. Perhaps it is because you have been around a long time and didn't experience what newer players experience today. Who can say.
A limited role as a T1 frigate tackler is not much variety. Like mining or ratting, it might be fun for the first bit or two, but it does not hold long term interest. You WILL lose your T1 ship in a matter of seconds after the battle starts unless you have a serious numbers advantage or a collectively dense opponent.
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