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Becham
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:14:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Becham on 21/01/2007 15:10:59
I recently canceled my account and thought I would depart with a review to keep the ongoing discussion alive regarding the skill divide separating the new players from the established.
In my opinion the real-time-based skill system is deeply flawed for a game where combat plays like a non-twitch FPS but with a diversity of skills. There is nothing anyone can do to catch up to the skills of those who have been around for years because there is no way to buy time. Those who started out at Eve's beginning were able to enjoy a game where they didn't have to catch up because everyone was going at the same pace. The early game was more like a FPS with choices to make along the way, which must have made it great, I am sorry I missed it.
At present, to get into the real meat & potatoes of Eve, it is a game of waiting around for 7 or 8 months until you can fly & fit T2 mods and actually play a role in a PvP fight. T1 ships and mods are a joke, and after 3 months out in 0.0 space, I have yet to come across an enemy that wasn't in one T2 ship or another. The carebear game is just too drab to occupy the bulk of the time while waiting the eons neccesary for skills to mature. The only way I could make any kind of contribution to my corp was to go mining as much as possible. No thanks.
This is my view, your mileage my vary.
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Lance Hawke
Beyond Divinity Inc
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:15:00 -
[2]
stuff, etc.
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Light Elf
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:16:00 -
[3]
Did you know the average amount of time a player spends in eve is 7 months?
p.s can i have your stuff |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/01/2007 15:14:29
 Originally by: Becham
In my opinion the real-time-based skill system is deeply flawed for a game where combat plays like a non-twitch FPS but with a diversity of skills. There is nothing anyone can do to catch up to the skills of those who have been around for years because there is no way to buy time. Those who started out at Eve's beginning were able to enjoy a game where they didn't have to catch up because everyone was going at the same pace. The early game was more like a FPS with choices to make along the way, which must have made it great, I am sorry I missed it.
This has been said a thousand times, and its totally wrong.
There's a maximum amount of skillpoints in any particular category. Say, for piloting an Enyo, after 10 million skillpoints or so, you're not going to get any better at it. Same for any other ship in the game.
All skillpoints do is give you more possibilities for diversification. Past a point which does not take too long to pass for any single ship, you are no worse than a veteran. If anything, you have the advantage, because veterans have wasted 10s of millions of skillpoints on things that were nerfed and changed. Today, you have the benefit of years of wisdom by others.
Originally by: Becham
At present, to get into the real meat & potatoes of Eve, it is a game of waiting around for 7 or 8 months until you can fly & fit T2 mods and actually play a role in a PvP fight. T1 ships and mods are a joke, and after 3 months out in 0.0 space, I have yet to come across an enemy that wasn't in one T2 ship or another. The carebear game is just too drab to occupy the bulk of the time while waiting the eons neccesary for skills to mature. The only way I could make any kind of contribution to my corp was to go mining as much as possible. No thanks.
Totally wrong, but the worst part about that is the attitude.
You don't "need" a T2-fitted battleship to play EVE and have fun. With that kind of logic, the only way to have fun driving is with a Ferrari. Or the only way to enjoy watching a movie is with a 5,000 dollar HDTV and stereo system.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Sophism
Amarr
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:19:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sophism on 21/01/2007 15:15:59
Did you know that everything in your post is far from being correct?
A player with 1 mill Sp's is a valuable asset just as much as a 200mill SP player. You can still fly a tackler which every gang needs. And you can easily specialize in something and be better or just as good as the player who has played 3 years.
IBTDS
(edit) damn the crazy mofo beat me to it.
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Becham
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:23:00 -
[6]
Quote:
This has been said a thousand times, and its totally wrong.
Why then do you presume it has been said a thousand times? I gave it nearly 4 months, it's not like I logged in once and threw my hands up.
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x racer
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:25:00 -
[7]
I think you missed something and here it is:
Theres a role in PVP for players from day one in eve. Scouting and Tackling are the most critical jobs in PVP. This is the true genius of CCP in my opinion.
Most gangs I have ever been in have been short on these roles because, like the OP, most people think you need t2 whatever and BS's rule the Universe.
Of course, if your a solo player, eve prolly is not for you anyways.
Good luck in your search for the perfect game for you,
x |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:25:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/01/2007 15:21:55
Originally by: Becham
Quote:
This has been said a thousand times, and its totally wrong.
Why then do you presume it has been said a thousand times? I gave it nearly 4 months, it's not like I logged in once and threw my hands up.
What do you mean?
Its been said a thousand times because I've been a forum hoe for two yeas and I've seen this kind of post over and over and over.
Its probably the most common "I'M QUITTING" post there is. I mean seriously, you could template it and nobody would know the difference because its so common.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Yukami Kido
Caldari
Adeptus Illuminati Aegis Authentica
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:30:00 -
[9]
not the "omg noobs cant catch up to vets" argument again....
seriusly as others have said this argument is so old it isnt even funny. as well as being old as hell its so wrong it isnt even funny. as others have said you can specialise and be usefull from day one you just have to be smart about it.
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Tal Zokof
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:34:00 -
[10]
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
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Krulla
Minmatar
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
You are wrong. See Dark Shikari's post, for he speaks truth.
Sigs are for noobs. |
Prime Entity
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
I think I am going to need a special pair of glasses to understand what you have typed.
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Joe
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:45:00 -
[13]
I think Interceptors are the most enjoyable ships in the game, and they only require about 1.5m sp Including Tech II turrets.
when i'm cruising in my Taranis i'm using 1/40 th of my sp, the rest is wasted.
I could do everything I want in eve with about 6-7m Sp, pvp, npc, and missions, Ive wasted 10's of millions of Sp to figure that out.
Pe0w |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/01/2007 15:21:55
Originally by: Becham
Quote:
This has been said a thousand times, and its totally wrong.
Why then do you presume it has been said a thousand times? I gave it nearly 4 months, it's not like I logged in once and threw my hands up.
What do you mean?
Its been said a thousand times because I've been a forum hoe for two yeas and I've seen this kind of post over and over and over.
Its probably the most common "I'M QUITTING" post there is. I mean seriously, you could template it and nobody would know the difference because its so common.
It's true, alot of folks come to Eve with the Skill points = Levels = Progress mentality and just can't or won't get their heads around the difference.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Forum Troll
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:46:00 -
[15]
Can I have your stuff?
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Light Elf
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
Originally by: Oveur
the average EVE player only stays for 7 months.
Theres some 'bull honky' from a dev blog for you
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:57:00 -
[17]
Eve is easier for new players now than it was when i started. I couldn't afford a cruiser for about a month. Didn't fly a battleships until after about 6 months... though that was mainly due to laziness.
I started with about 70k sp, now you start with 10 times that. When I started there were just frigs cruisers and battleships. Now you have destroyers and battlecruisers as space fillers. When I started space was dangerous. now it is safe for all.
As for t1 being a joke? Tell that to the command cruisers that my myrmidin has raped.
You have it easy, but if you can't hack it, then quiting is the right choice.
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scabbsssjr
Gallente
M'8'S
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Posted - 2007.01.21 15:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Becham
Edited by: Becham on 21/01/2007 15:10:59
SP MEANS EVERYTHING
Eve is not just about SP. A 2 week old players is just as deadly as a 2 year old player in a gang. It takes very little skill to tackle which is a very useful job to full fill.
Can the devs just make one sticky were everyone can post their "I AM QUITING" whine?
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What ever I say is my own views and not of my corp. |
Malcanis
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Becham
Edited by: Becham on 21/01/2007 15:10:59
I recently canceled my account and thought I would depart with a review to keep the ongoing discussion alive regarding the skill divide separating the new players from the established.
In my opinion the real-time-based skill system is deeply flawed for a game where combat plays like a non-twitch FPS but with a diversity of skills. There is nothing anyone can do to catch up to the skills of those who have been around for years because there is no way to buy time. Those who started out at Eve's beginning were able to enjoy a game where they didn't have to catch up because everyone was going at the same pace. The early game was more like a FPS with choices to make along the way, which must have made it great, I am sorry I missed it.
At present, to get into the real meat & potatoes of Eve, it is a game of waiting around for 7 or 8 months until you can fly & fit T2 mods and actually play a role in a PvP fight. T1 ships and mods are a joke, and after 3 months out in 0.0 space, I have yet to come across an enemy that wasn't in one T2 ship or another. The carebear game is just too drab to occupy the bulk of the time while waiting the eons neccesary for skills to mature. The only way I could make any kind of contribution to my corp was to go mining as much as possible. No thanks.
This is my view, your mileage my vary.
I respectfully disagree. I've been playing less than 5 months and I have seen and contributed to PvP. What you *can't* do is fly the biggest and best straight away.
That's the way I like it. In a YEAR, I will still have something to look forward to.
Did you master everything that you could do with a frigate? I suspect not. Your complaint is premature. Frigate FunÖ is just as much meat & potatoes (well maybe cheeseburger & fries) as flying a t2-fitted BS.
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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:02:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Soulita on 21/01/2007 16:00:16
"Is EVE new player friendly?"
That depends completely on you, and a bit of luck in finding the right corp.
The key is: Look for a corp to join asap. Ask questions and learn. Listen to the vets advice, most of them know what they are talking about.
An example of a good crop to join for new players is Eve-Uni.
Skillpoints are of far less importance than knowledge of the game, and a good bunch of peeps to hang around with.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:05:00 -
[21]
Of my 36m SP, probably only 6m is of any use when flying an interceptor, and I am not quick to attack noobs in Arbitrators, Vexors and Ruptures because they would comfortably own me with a cheap T1 fitting - and in the past, have.
So you are wrong. You needed to find yourself a place where people would have been happy to develop you as a PVPer as part of a team, rather than compare yourself alone to some guy in a HAC.
Logoffs on Fraps
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Lt Hole
Caldari
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:08:00 -
[22]
Only the strongest gamers can handle Eve.
If you're nervous, smacktalk in local.
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JoDirt
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:10:00 -
[23]
you don't use 2 years worth of sp all at the same time. 4 months and you can easily fit medium T2 guns and mods. just need to plan your skills effectively.
--------------------------------
Luckily my neck broke my fall... |
Nir
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:12:00 -
[24]
For a MMO the learning curve in EVE is just fine. The key thing about EVE is that you can PVP and do most other aspects of the game right from the bat. I'm scratching my head to think of a profession a newbie could not get into within the 14 days of his trial. There is no locked away content, no minimum level or rank before you can enter a PVP battleground like you'll find in some games.
Sure there is a lot of info to take in but again not really any more than most MMORPGs i've played. I'm willing to bet most people who quit because they think the learning curve is too high had never played a MMO prior to EVE.
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Ozzie Asrail
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:12:00 -
[25]
The most popular ship on our killboard is a fully t1 fitted carcal. A good scout and decent FC are worth 10x the value of uber ships and equipment.
The new T2 BC's are awsome, i can fly gallente hac's but havnt even bothered buying one. Myrmidon > Ishtar by miles.
Theres a guy in my corp who can fly motherships and titans but loves flying a t1 destroyer and popping pods :)
-----
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x racer
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Newsflash; 4x t2 drones do a number on t2 frigates too
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
I think most are saying get in a T1 frigate and learn how to tackle, how gangs work, how not to die, and scouting. Most corps give t1 frigates and basic mods for free. Does not take much ratting, missions or mining to afford free. Clones are also much, much, cheaper for low skill point players.
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
People that do the trial and quit, kill the average. Whats unusual in the OP's case, and the only reason I am posting here is that the OP has been in the game for 4 months and put his "Oh Noes, I just realised I can never catch up in SP's" obligatory post.
My guess is that he just logs on to change skill training and has messed around a bit doing a few things some have suggested. In between taking head shots on BF, of course.
My question to the OP is if hes spent much time in any sort of multiple ship op with a goal. If so, and he stands by his post, then this game is prolly not for him. Its not a FPS in space.
cheers,
x
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Won Swunglow
Dead By Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:17:00 -
[27]
as a 34mill skill point char, i can honestly say skill points arent everything...
Last week i was bored, so i created a new minmitard alt, gave him 1.5mill isk, stuck him in a rifter, and went straight to low sec, where i was chased around a sys for a few mins, then met up with a guy i had never seen before, and we proceeded to kill 2 intys and a thorax.
It wasnt my skillpoints that helped, it was the 3 years i've spent in this game, and the ability to get along with others.
This game is all about groups... 5 x 1 day old chars can easily take down a T2 fitted ship in low sec.
Trust me i've done it, and it was fun \0/
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Ashurn
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:21:00 -
[28]
The only few activities I can think of that requires ****-load of Tech 2 items are;
1.) Solo Level 4 missions, all of 'em including few of the hardest ones.
2.) Solo PVPing
3.) Ego/Muscle Flexing! (till you get blown up by couple of pilots in Tech 1 ships with Tech 1 fittings anyway) 
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Galk
Gallente
Autumn Tactics
All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:22:00 -
[29]
Maybe the naysayers that disagree would care to check out the recruitment forum, how many corps playing 'the real game' require you to have X ammount of skillpoints these days
Why ffs, just why... discriminate elitism?
Obviously has nothing to do with what players can't do, you guys have explained that as being a non issue
CCP though don't share the wisdom of the most informed amoung us.... last years increased bloodline stats.. devaluing the price of implants, increased starting skillpoints in the last publish.
The op obviously feels that does not go far enough, it's understandable imo.
______
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Becham
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:26:00 -
[30]
I agree, the learning curve in Eve is not very long. I got the gist of it in a matter of a week or so and I can assure you I have not won any Nobel prizes. The time based skills are however very long and even the MMOG genius can't do anything to speed it up. You could be a brilliant nuclear physicist and you still can't get into a T2 ship.
If your idea of fully playing the game is to have a limited role as a T1 frigate tackler for 6 or 7 months while you wait to step into a ship that doesn't explode in one volley, you are the one who is missing the point. Perhaps it is because you have been around a long time and didn't experience what newer players experience today. Who can say.
A limited role as a T1 frigate tackler is not much variety. Like mining or ratting, it might be fun for the first bit or two, but it does not hold long term interest. You WILL lose your T1 ship in a matter of seconds after the battle starts unless you have a serious numbers advantage or a collectively dense opponent.
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Clementina
Eye of God
X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:31:00 -
[31]
This game is not very newbie friendly, and that is unfortunate. It is however, very casual friendly. You don't need to grind for skills, ships that you have flown as a newbie, you can still get the same use out of them when you're a vet, and the fact that people lose stuff when they get popped means that there is a cap to how uber a particular person's setup can be. This means that your 2004 era vet can be flying a Incursus when you face him or her as easily as they could be flying a battleship. And if you are unusually busy at work for a week or two, you don't get outskilled by your corpmates.
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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:32:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Soulita on 21/01/2007 16:30:00
Originally by: Galk
Maybe the naysayers that disagree would care to check out the recruitment forum, how many corps playing 'the real game' require you to have X ammount of skillpoints these days
Why ffs, just why... discriminate elitism?
Obviously has nothing to do with what players can't do, you guys have explained that as being a non issue
CCP though don't share the wisdom of the most informed amoung us.... last years increased bloodline stats.. devaluing the price of implants, increased starting skillpoints in the last publish.
The op obviously feels that does not go far enough, it's understandable imo.
There is plenty of corps/alliances around that will take you on board as a low skillpoint char.
All that is needed is an app to Eve-Uni, or a post in the recruitment forums. Not that hard to do, tbh. 
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wierchas noobhunter
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Becham
I
If your idea of fully playing the game is to have a limited role as a T1 frigate tackler for 6 or 7 months while you wait to step into a ship that doesn't explode in one volley, you are the one who is missing the point. Perhaps it is because you have been around a long time and didn't experience what newer players experience today. Who can say.
in that time u will be semi ok raven or domi pilot ffs ....
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Becham
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:45:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Becham on 21/01/2007 16:44:40
Quote:
"My question to the OP is if hes spent much time in any sort of multiple ship op with a goal. If so, and he stands by his post, then this game is prolly not for him. Its not a FPS in space."
Yes, I did spend much time in such ops. I joined a great 0.0 corp in the 2nd week of the game. I went on multiple ops of roving patrols and system defense. The corp was very good, if anything it enhanced the game for me and probably added 3 months to the time I spent here.
You are right, as I stated the game is not for me for the reasons I've stated. I don't want to wait 8 months to recieve my FPS character.
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Calladen Nimitz
Caldari
Sovereign Labs
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:46:00 -
[35]
I still cant fly Hacs or Carriers and Ive been around since Beta. Is that a skill divide? Nope its my choice. I've excelled in particular areas I've focused on and ignored those that havent interested me. I can build a mothership but I sure cant fly one. Its my choice.
Also dont forget there are plenty of players out there who help new players. I live next door to a 1.0 new player system and frequently see "what is......" in local. Keep a stock of noob frigates with mining lasers handy, hand out learning skillpacks, direct them to the http://www.evegathering.com new player tutorial thats IG browser compatible. You can help them start on the right foot.
I'm glad its like it is. Sure its time delayed but isnt life? When something is handed to someone it isnt coveted as much as something earned. Eve is kind of like that as well. In that way its more "real life" then you could imagine.
Calladen
SOVEREIGN ENTERPRISES WEBPAGE AND FORUMS |
Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:46:00 -
[36]
While not aggreeing with the OP (I personally think EVE is worth sticking around for), I do get slightly sick of people pretending that skillpoints / T2 don't matter.
Try fighting a T2 kitted Recon gang with noobs in T1 Frigs and go prove me wrong.
While it's true you only need x-ammount of skillpoints to max out a (T2)Frigate, that is far from the only skillpoints a new player will train.
The first months, you will need to put skillpoints in Learning, the basic Engineering and Electronics skills, your basic weapon and tanking choices, the basic Navigation Skills, etc.
If you dont start the game with mates and just have one account, you might consider training up some Social/Industrial/Science/Trade skills as well. Then you need to decide on what you want to spec in, which is easy when you look back, but a lot harder if you step into EVE for the first time.
Before Kali, that was allready about 6 months training time before you can consider yourself somewhat specialised. For a game, that is a long time to invest.
I would like to think that CCP aggree, as in Kali, they changed Learning Skills and let people start with better stats / skills fresh after creation.
Also, if skillpoints matter that little, why do several of the better PVP outfits have Skillpoint requirements of 10, 15 or even 20M?
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Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.21 16:51:00 -
[37]
As a rule of thumb, the higher the rank of the skill, the less of an impact it has.
case in point:
Racial frigate (rank 1). takes about 10 days to train to level 5. Result? You go from being able to fly tech 1 frigates to flying tech 2 frigates.
Advanced Weapon Upgrades (rank 6): takes about 36 days to train to level. Result? the powergrid need to fit any gun or missile launcher to my ships drops by a measly 2%. is also one of four requisite skills for using a siege module on a dreadnought - an effect which is of no use whatsoever if you aren't a dreadnought pilot.
So, low end skills produce big results. you get very tangible improvements out of them.
Higher end skills are all about refining your performance by small increments. They give an edge, but not a big one by any means... and having the ability to fit that extra tachyon II to my Geddon is of limited use if I've been ECM'd by somebody with a tenth of my skill points flying a blackbird, and can't shoot anything.
+++
FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
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Nir
The Doldrums
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Posted - 2007.01.21 17:07:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Becham
If your idea of fully playing the game is to have a limited role as a T1 frigate tackler for 6 or 7 months while you wait to step into a ship that doesn't explode in one volley, you are the one who is missing the point.
Well then, I guess if it really comes down to it then no, you won't be competing on the same level with veterans for at least 6 months. But is your ego really that brittle that you can't simply accept that there will always be someone who's better than you?
Again this is how it works in most MMOs. To compare, it took me 2 years to reach a stage in Dark Age of Camelot where I could take on veterans and win consistantly. Mostly because by that time, I had become a veteran myself. But that doesn't mean that I spend the many months leading up to that point crying myself to sleep every night because some guy on the server had more realm points than me.
So the notion of veterans being better at PVP is not exclusive to EVE. Heck in some of them the age of your account grants you extra abilities to the point where new account owners are in a league of their own.
Long story short, EVE's skillpoint curve ain't so bad when compared to the effort required to get on top of the foodchain in other MMOs.
|
Valan
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:10:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Valan on 21/01/2007 17:08:13
When I started people had battleships and I could barely fly a cruiser, so what. It also took a month to get a cruiser, not 5 minutes like it does now.
EDIT if they make this game any easier than it is now for noobs it will be Teletubbies in space. Even the rat spawns are easier and give more isk.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Malcanis
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Clementina
This game is not very newbie friendly, and that is unfortunate. It is however, very casual friendly. You don't need to grind for skills, ships that you have flown as a newbie, you can still get the same use out of them when you're a vet, and the fact that people lose stuff when they get popped means that there is a cap to how uber a particular person's setup can be. This means that your 2004 era vet can be flying a Incursus when you face him or her as easily as they could be flying a battleship. And if you are unusually busy at work for a week or two, you don't get outskilled by your corpmates.
Just to say - EVE is newbie friendly. But it's very, very unfriendly to those who come to it with the wrong attitude.
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Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.21 17:13:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Valan
When I started people had battleships and I could barely fly a cruiser, so what. It also took a month to get a cruiser, not 5 minutes like it does now.
Aye, it's not like 'twas in t' olden days.... why, I use to have to fly fifteen kilometers to t' gate and t' station, all in t' cold hard vacuum o' space...
aye, them were the days....
+++
FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
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Malcanis
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Valan
When I started people had battleships and I could barely fly a cruiser, so what. It also took a month to get a cruiser, not 5 minutes like it does now.
Aye, it's not like 'twas in t' olden days.... why, I use to have to fly fifteen kilometers to t' gate and t' station, all in t' cold hard vacuum o' space...
aye, them were the days....
AND pay't Mill owner fer't privelidge!
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Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:18:00 -
[43]
Aye, and when I got back to t' station, t' CEO'd pod me and bathe in m'pod goop.
+++
FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
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Gretek Lal
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.01.21 17:22:00 -
[44]
I've never understood why some people tie their sense of self-worth to what level they are in a computer game. They bring the same rat-race, stressed-out mentality that gives them ulcers in RL to Eve. It's pathetic.
Eve is not about 'winning' or sweating on that treadmill to be better than somebody else. It's about doing your thing and having fun. You can have fun on day one and on day 365.
Eve gives you a platform to do and be many different things. Join a corp where others can help you. Or play solo. Be a pvp-er or just explore the galaxy, stopping here and there to mine a little Veldspar.
Relax and enjoy the game.
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Malcanis
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:22:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Stitcher
Aye, and when I got back to t' station, t' CEO'd pod me and bathe in m'pod goop.
LUXURY!
|
Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:24:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Stitcher
Aye, and when I got back to t' station, t' CEO'd pod me and bathe in m'pod goop.
LUXURY!
Aye, t'were a good life... not like today....
+++
FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
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x racer
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 18:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Galk
Maybe the naysayers that disagree would care to check out the recruitment forum, how many corps playing 'the real game' require you to have X ammount of skillpoints these days
Why ffs, just why... discriminate elitism?
Obviously has nothing to do with what players can't do, you guys have explained that as being a non issue
CCP though don't share the wisdom of the most informed amoung us.... last years increased bloodline stats.. devaluing the price of implants, increased starting skillpoints in the last publish.
The op obviously feels that does not go far enough, it's understandable imo.
The best alliances and corps are invite only.
x
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Nastratu
Minmatar
Serefon Creatin
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Posted - 2007.01.21 19:02:00 -
[48]
You just have to learn to enjoy what you have at each stage in EVE. Not state that since you can't fly that T2 outfitted HAC right here and now, the game sucks. I remember from my newbie days, we killed quite a few T2 ships, with group effort and 1vs1 ganks as well (and they killed plenty of us too). And that was fun.
You know EVE is a very complex game. I found that that time I spent training my skills, those months upon months until I got to the T2 stuff, I really needed to learn more about the game, so that later I won't make some very stupid and expensive mistakes. I needed that time to do some trial and error in cheaper ships, to sit here on forums and read occassionally. It is not just your character's skills. It is also your own skill and knowledge that needs improvement. And that requires some real time. And yes, for most of us with work/school and busy schedule it does take months to read about every aspect of EVE and piece it all together. So I don't really see any problem being limited in your character's abilities for a while until you yourself gain more advanced knowledge about how the game works.
And btw you can always buy a skilled character if you want.
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Pholocix
Digital Horizons
Unbrella Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 19:09:00 -
[49]
Ah yes the old days.
I remember having to fly to the station to change out jobs, back when you had to find an open spot to rent. Back when we could only afford to have 20 labs in the station.
I also remember mining hemorphite in an imicus, with miner 1's, uphill both ways!
I won't lie and say SP don't matter at all, but its not the end all. One of my 7m SP alts could own my 41M sp main. But if your moving on, I wish you well. Just don't go Halo2, please! M1cro$oft has enough of your soul already.
If you found yourself in a fair fight your intel sucks. |
Araxmas
Black Lance
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 19:15:00 -
[50]
Ah not this old topic again.
1, Why does everyone think you have to be t2 to do stuff in eve. Sure 1v1 if your not t2 than you are at a dis-advantage but not all the time, especially in fleets.
2, T1 ships aren't a joke. For starters if your gallente than the celestis is a nasty piece of work with its targetting range damps.
3, There are T1 versions of T2 items, they cost a-bit but they don't require skills.
4, New characters have already given a huge sp boost. You can pretty much get a t2 assualt frig without too long training, sure you cant t2 mod it up but the ship itself is nasty.
--------
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Pan Crastus
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 19:24:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sophism
Edited by: Sophism on 21/01/2007 15:15:59
Did you know that everything in your post is far from being correct?
A player with 1 mill Sp's is a valuable asset just as much as a 200mill SP player.
Maybe from a gang/corp perspective, but I think his (very valid) point is that he's not having as much fun by being the disposable noob tackler in the throwaway ship as the T2 sniper guy.
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Pan Crastus
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 19:26:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Theres a guy in my corp who can fly motherships and titans but loves flying a t1 destroyer and popping pods :)
How about you build him a mothership / titan then and see if he still does that? ;-)
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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.01.21 19:29:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Soulita on 21/01/2007 19:29:03
Originally by: x racer
Originally by: Galk
Maybe the naysayers that disagree would care to check out the recruitment forum, how many corps playing 'the real game' require you to have X ammount of skillpoints these days
Why ffs, just why... discriminate elitism?
Obviously has nothing to do with what players can't do, you guys have explained that as being a non issue
CCP though don't share the wisdom of the most informed amoung us.... last years increased bloodline stats.. devaluing the price of implants, increased starting skillpoints in the last publish.
The op obviously feels that does not go far enough, it's understandable imo.
The best alliances and corps are invite only.
x
Define "best" please.
The same crop that is the "best" for one player might be the "worst" for another.
For new players I see Eve-Uni as the arguably "best" corp. I dont think that is invite only.
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Tal Zokof
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 20:18:00 -
[54]
i have no problem with waiting 6-8 months to fly a realy good ship but in the mean time i realy cant do anything because the idiot griefers in there t3 ships like to play god
and to all that say sp dont mean anything i will put up 500mil isk that the person with 2m sp in a t1 ship agianst a person with 10m sp in gunnery and drones and a t2 ship that if the t1 person wins he gets the money
no the t1 ship had all t1 epuip and the t2 has t2 guns only now who wants to take me up on this
all u people that say sp dont matter come line up
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Tal Zokof
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 20:20:00 -
[55]
now also both fly the same ship of course left that out and same weapons except t1 guns and t2 and the better sps
just to clear that up
also sorry my enlish is second language
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D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 20:30:00 -
[56]
this char only has 21mil sp and i can pvp with the best of them.
my second character only has 11mil sp and i can still pvp with the best of them,
specialization is your friend
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Tal Zokof
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Posted - 2007.01.21 20:43:00 -
[57]
when u people listen to what we are saying
11mil sp 22mil sp
we are talking about 2mil sp please read next time it will take like we said 6months if not more to get 10mil sp
the ones with 2m dont stand a chance oh sure we can takle till a t2 ship wants to target us instead and pop we go now that was fun
agian i dont mind the time ivestment but the people who want to shot noobs are pushing alot out of game u wont go shot bigger targets cause u are scared they will fight back you are the tipical playground bullies
again sure i can spend 30m getting a group together hoping he is still there and then spend another 30m finding him hoping he is not cloaked so i just spent 1hr out of my time when i just want to rat in peace
no one still has given valided resonds for griefing
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Valan
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 20:45:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Valan
When I started people had battleships and I could barely fly a cruiser, so what. It also took a month to get a cruiser, not 5 minutes like it does now.
Aye, it's not like 'twas in t' olden days.... why, I use to have to fly fifteen kilometers to t' gate and t' station, all in t' cold hard vacuum o' space...
aye, them were the days....
AND pay't Mill owner fer't privelidge!
lol didn't have to fly 15km :)
Just putting out there is always somebody with more. You either get on with it or whine like a 4 year old girl.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Ryas Nia
Minmatar
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 20:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mi Lai
Also, if skillpoints matter that little, why do several of the better PVP outfits have Skillpoint requirements of 10, 15 or even 20M?
Most often its a way of only highering people who have been playing for 1+ years who know the game and the mechanics. They dont care about the SP as much as they do your commitment to the game and your corporation.
SP help they make fitting a gang out for specific tasks much simpler because you know your going to have enough inty/recon/commandship pilots to fill out the gang.
SP is like isk more of it makes things simpler but it does not win the game.
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D'onryu Shoqui
Vengeance of the Fallen
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.21 21:02:00 -
[60]
Edited by: D''onryu Shoqui on 21/01/2007 20:59:02
Quote:
when u people listen to what we are saying
11mil sp 22mil sp
we are talking about 2mil sp please read next time it will take like we said 6months if not more to get 10mil sp
i cant think of any other mmo where you can take 2-3 one month old chars and go kill someone who has been playing for 2+ years apart from eve.
11mil sp isnt much when you consider the majority of people in 0.0 probably have 40mil sp.
theres people in the same alliance as me who have been in 0.0 since there chars were born and they have never complained about anything
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anti disestablishment
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 21:23:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
You don't "need" a T2-fitted battleship to play EVE and have fun. With that kind of logic, the only way to have fun driving is with a Ferrari. Or the only way to enjoy watching a movie is with a 5,000 dollar HDTV and stereo system.
Is there any other way to do things? 
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Cmdr Sy
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.21 21:56:00 -
[62]
Originally by: anti disestablishment
Originally by: Dark Shikari
You don't "need" a T2-fitted battleship to play EVE and have fun. With that kind of logic, the only way to have fun driving is with a Ferrari. Or the only way to enjoy watching a movie is with a 5,000 dollar HDTV and stereo system.
Is there any other way to do things?
I will quote you, but direct this at the OP and like-minded people.
That's the problem - other games spoil people and give the whole entire global gaming community the impression that there is no other way to do things.
In other games YOU are the Hero, YOU are the Ferrari Man, YOU hold the Seven Bladed Sword of Some Made Up Word With An Apostrophe In The Middle.
And you try to ignore the fact that so does everyone else. And the fact that they're wearing the same outfit. And damn her, she looks better in it.
Well in EVE, you start off as just another raw recruit, and most people will never rise above the rank of common soldier because the environments and societies here need more soldiers working as a team than they need heroes.
Any newbie who realises that, who can take pride in being a cog in a machine rather than a generic hero, is instantly liberated from his envy and insecurity. You don't need awesome skills and T2 to enjoy this game. I don't need faction implants and fittings. And I doubt there is a single veteran out there who doesn't like to spend a day every now and then, creating havoc with a noob alt.
Logoffs on Fraps
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Valan
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 22:09:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Valan on 21/01/2007 22:05:35
Originally by: Sertan Deras
Edited by: Sertan Deras on 21/01/2007 21:18:04
As a new player myself, I have some perspective on this. I see both sides of the argument really. I've always stuck with MMO's I enjoy, and end up becoming the "veteran player", so to speak. From that perspective, I understand why veteran EVE players are saying "It's not that hard. Plan your SP, do this in a gang, do that in a gang.". Great advice...except how is a new player supposed to know any of that?
There is a bit of an inflated ego attitude sometimes from the more veteran EVE players. You tell us "Do this and do that to enjoy the game.", but you don't bother to tell us how to learn that stuff. I don't know what tackling is, I don't know how to do it. I'm told I can fly "Great ships" with 7M SP, but I have no idea what skills to buy.
In short, I think both sides of the argument need to try and see the others point. New players (me include) need to understand that EVE is a complex game, and that it will take some time and patience to really become a productive citizen. Veteran players need to be a little more understanding of new players who have so much information to intake and process, that telling us we are stupid because we don't know the seven million skill points to happiness isn't really fair either.
Thats all down to the people you fly with and how you bond with them. You also need to realise that vets don't know everything especially after a patch. I haven't even tried probing since Revelations, there is always someone else to fill that role. Which is where the new player comes in. Find a group you like and get on with finding a niche and specialise, even if you're a back up for the guy that usually does it, you're still invaluable.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Silistra
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 23:16:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Silistra on 21/01/2007 23:18:00
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
That's the problem - other games spoil people and give the whole entire global gaming community the impression that there is no other way to do things.
In other games YOU are the Hero, YOU are the Ferrari Man, YOU hold the Seven Bladed Sword of Some Made Up Word With An Apostrophe In The Middle.
And you try to ignore the fact that so does everyone else. And the fact that they're wearing the same outfit. And damn her, she looks better in it.
Well in EVE, you start off as just another raw recruit, and most people will never rise above the rank of common soldier because the environments and societies here need more soldiers working as a team than they need heroes.
Any newbie who realises that, who can take pride in being a cog in a machine rather than a generic hero, is instantly liberated from his envy and insecurity. You don't need awesome skills and T2 to enjoy this game. I don't need faction implants and fittings. And I doubt there is a single veteran out there who doesn't like to spend a day every now and then, creating havoc with a noob alt.
Best post I've read. Thank you Sir!
Asteroids! The cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast!
Be sure to eat a balanced diet to avoid constipation. |
AvatarADV
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 23:43:00 -
[65]
One reason a lot of the "elite" corps are picky about recruitment is because of the possibility of sabotage and spycraft. Anybody can start up an alt, train for a couple of weeks to wear off some of the "new" shine, and apply to their corp's enemies. Suddenly you have a man on the inside, you can scout out their territory and listen in on their conversations, maybe even jack some of the corp assets and run like hell. When you're discovered, you delete the alt, laughing all the way as your main rolls in with the assault force while the target's forces are all engaged elsewhere.
Even making alts non-anonymous wouldn't do the trick. Plenty of corps have people sufficiently hardcore to own two accounts (a favorite of miner/hauler combos).
So corps put up some steep entrance requirements in order to make this sort of shenanigan harder to pull off. It's a lot harder to take six months' training time away from your main to set up a disposable spy!
Of course, at the same time a certain amount of it is the usual ego stroking. "You have to be THIS hardcore to be admitted to our guild." Even in games like WoW, where having an additional member of your group is essentially free, you see a lot of that. In EVE, where increasing your corp size means significant training on the behalf of the CEO, he's got an active incentive in keeping the membership down where possible.
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Fierce Deity
Gallente
Hera Star
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 23:52:00 -
[66]
Is eve new player friendly? no.
However the same could be said for any game really. The only way someone will view a game as new player friendly is when they are spoon fed the game and actively helped out by fellow players.
Due to the eat or be eaten nature of eve trust is somthing you give to another player you a) know in rl or b) have flown with for a very long time. This is due to alt spies ect. ect.
Eve is not new player friendly, eve = smart player friendly.
------FD------
Recruiting: Hera Star |
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
|
Posted - 2007.01.21 23:54:00 -
[67]
Edited by: madaluap on 21/01/2007 23:51:23
When i pirated in my 200mm railthorax with 8 beserkers, i had a 300K sp vigil tackle for me...worked fine...
We killed carebears with way more sp in other cruisers, it was a awesome ride.
eve is for all.
_________________________________________________
Breetime
|
Fierce Deity
Gallente
Hera Star
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 00:02:00 -
[68]
that actually brings up another point.
When i was in 0.0 we had a term for you first podding, you were being set free. What it meant was you no longer had to worry about the 30 mil + implants implanted in your skull.
Also not being the richist player in eve i rarely pvp in somthing i can't afford to loose. been playing 3 years i've been ship destroyed 3 times and podded once.
Imo if your new and your afraid of losing your fancy new frig, don't buy the frig. What you do is you buy the bpo (they arn't expensive in the least) then build the frig and pvp in it. You'll have no worries on blowing up because back at home you have the resorce to build an infinate number of your ship.
^ twice as good as any insurence this game offers imo.
------FD------
Recruiting: Hera Star |
Hamshoe
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 01:48:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
[You don't "need" a T2-fitted...
A glance at the market suggests you aren't telling the whole story.
Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse? |
Maximillian Pele
Caldari
Jewel Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 02:12:00 -
[70]
Actually SP isn't the be all and end all.
What you actually need is SP + isk + ingame experience.
What's the point of being able to fly a HAC if you can't afford one? Or if you could afford one you'd probably loose it to the first guy you encounter with PvP experience, or you'd loose it to a blob.
New players will never catch up with the three year vets SP wise, and why should they? That is they reward for them paying and playing for three years.
The real advice to give new players to EvE is have more than one account if you can afford it. EvE is a game of multiple accounts as that is the only way to be able to spec up characters to be good quickly.
In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite. |
Ander
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 02:17:00 -
[71]
Anyone can become a pirate!
EVE Online - Pirates |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 02:26:00 -
[72]
I was going to write a big long post for the OP detailing why I thought they were wrong, until I noticed Dark Shikari had already done it, only better. so instead I shall only say this:
Originally by: Ander
Anyone can become a pirate!
Yar har, fiddle di dee, being a pirate is alright to be, do what you want 'cause a pirate is free! YOU ARE A PIRATE!
*cough*
-----------------------------------------------
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ceaon
Gallente
Porandor
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 02:27:00 -
[73]
that BAd part is that EVE after finish the tutorial let u make alot of solo stuff and n00b get the idea that they can go solo all the time
+
@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@
@@@@@@@@@
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Mi Lai
Sanguine Legion
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 03:42:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ander
Anyone can become a pirate!
QFT!
Getting into any form of war / pvp should actually be in the tutorial. Some people seem to spend 6-7 months in high sec doing EVE's pretty meager 'single player content' to train / earn up to become a bad ass fighter, only to become to bored by it to continue.
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Blindscythe
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 15:10:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Blindscythe on 22/01/2007 15:07:31
Call me crazy, but it seems CCP have done an awful lot to address the new player vs veteran player situation.
I agree with the folks here saying that SP != everything, but from a new player's stance, how are they to know without getting into the game? In order to appreciate the game and its mechanics, you need to become a veteran in the first place.
So, props to CCP for 800k SP start-up chars. Gives the new players a boost over the previous 30-40k SP startups, and keeps them interested til they realise it ain't all about SPs after all...
Hope that made sense :)
edit: dear God that was some horrible grammar.
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Zimi Vlasic
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 15:46:00 -
[76]
I started off as a tackler in a rifter. People in my corp before me started off as a tackler in a rifter. People after me have started off as a tackler in a rifter. We have brand new people in the corp training minmatar frig 3 so they can tackle in a rifter right now.
This is a TEAM GAME. There is no need for 30 bajillion SP. Specialize in one thing, do it wel, and you WILL be useful and get a lot of enjoyment out of the game.
I was frustrated at first as well. I thought I would never get out of the Rifter or the Wolf. Then all of a sudden, about a year later, Large artillery spec 4 finished.
You know what? I'm still not any more or less useful than the guy tackling in a rifter. Everyone is a gear or a cog in the war machine, and if one of the cogs is removed, the machine don't work.
Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer |
Asinia Au
Amarr
Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 15:53:00 -
[77]
My level of experience: Still < 2million SP
My level of enjoyment: Best MMORPG I have ever played, by FAR!
I can't even imagine the game that will replace EVE for me. It sure won't be some level grind game like Vanguard. EVE gives me the freedom to play MY game rather than force me to play the game of constant grind and level, grind and level.
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Asinia Au
Amarr
Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:11:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Becham
I agree, the learning curve in Eve is not very long. I got the gist of it in a matter of a week or so and I can assure you I have not won any Nobel prizes. The time based skills are however very long and even the MMOG genius can't do anything to speed it up. You could be a brilliant nuclear physicist and you still can't get into a T2 ship.
Unlike some games, EVE is not about the goal, getting to lvl 60 or flying T2 ships, EVE is about the journey. EVE is not about being led about by the nose by the quest system, or even by other players with more experience. EVE is about finding your own fun, deciding what the game is for you, and then playing it the best you know how.
As you have rightly pointed out, even a genius can't get into a T2 ship faster, but that is not the point of EVE. The point of EVE is to find your game and play, enjoy the journey with the tools you have, and I can tell you from personal experience, it doesn't take a genius to be successful, but imagination helps.
Quote:
If your idea of fully playing the game is to have a limited role as a T1 frigate tackler for 6 or 7 months while you wait to step into a ship that doesn't explode in one volley, you are the one who is missing the point. Perhaps it is because you have been around a long time and didn't experience what newer players experience today. Who can say.
I disagree. I would say that if you think that is the only thing available to a low SP player then is is YOU that have missed the point.
Quote:
A limited role as a T1 frigate tackler is not much variety. Like mining or ratting, it might be fun for the first bit or two, but it does not hold long term interest. You WILL lose your T1 ship in a matter of seconds after the battle starts unless you have a serious numbers advantage or a collectively dense opponent.
With my (less than) 2 million SP I have played many roles. I have traded, mined, ratted, missioned, engaged in solo and gang PvP, blown up ships, lost ships, etc, etc, etc. All of it in T1 frigates and cruisers, and all of it great fun!
As has been said many times, EVE is not for everyone. But it does have some unique advantages. Perhaps if you gave the game a little more time and tried to look at it as an open field with unlimited possibilities (even for a low SP player) rather than a confining cage you might just find something you like in this game to.
Whatever you do though, all the best!
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:21:00 -
[79]
PIE recruits low-SP characters from time to time.
They're often amongst our most eager and bloodthirsty pilots in PvP.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Idami Raptor
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:49:00 -
[80]
Has it occurred to anyone, that if new players are regularly leaving the game saying the same few things... that it becomes so common that you could template it...rather than everyone else in the world being wrong, they are, in fact, addressing a legitimate concern? The the fact that it IS repeated ad-nauseaum points to the fact that it's something that a lot of people see as a problem?
Has it occurred to you, that new players are the only way the game can expand and become more successful?
How about the fact that most people don't like their games dictating to them how they should be played? Or especially not other players?
Fact is, Eve is not only not newbie friendly, it is in fact newbie UNfriendly. It is a very hard game to get into, to learn how to play, to get established in.
This becomes a limiting factor on the ability of the game to grow and expand, and at some point if not corrected, to continue to exist.
This very problem and the attempts to correct it is what has all but killed Star Wars Galaxies.
Fact is, if this game is ever to be more than a very, very minor niche product like it is currently... these repeat issues need to be addressed rather than ignored.
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Kylania
Gallente
Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.22 20:11:00 -
[81]
I'd just like to say that Wild Rho's sig made me laugh. That is all.
--
Lil Miner
Newbie Skills Roadmap | How to Build from a BPO |
Tal Zokof
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Posted - 2007.01.22 21:32:00 -
[82]
Idami you could have said it any better
when every a noob says these thing the vets say ah thats just the game well its just not the game the griefers make it this way and as idami if all the noobs leave who will u kill
i am not asking to be god in 2months i just want a chance as it now i will never get that sps are everything in this game this is the first time i have ever started a game this old and see why now no one wants too u cant catch up u play for 1 yr the the others are one yr better
as i have said before i dont mind getting killed but in 8 sec where i had hardly anything to target that is not fun
i wish i had some solutions to the prob but sadly realy the only one i could come with is somehow make if so the noobs cant be attacked by a 40mil sp toon make it a range like up till 4mil sp u cant be attacked by someone with more than 8mil that wont solve everthing but sure would help now if the griefer want to kill noobs get in a noob ship and have a go at it but they wont do that cause they might lose
this has been a good thread where i will continue in this game i havent decided i am in a very good 0.0 corp so that helps but just realy not fun that all i can do is tackle and go pop for the next 4months
thanks agian for all good replys
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Irasmus
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:43:00 -
[83]
As a new player, only 3 days in, I can see both sides to this issue. For me EVE was not that difficult to learn and since doing the tutorial I've always found something to do -- mining, missions or ratting. As far as skill training goes, I think it's a mixed bag. I like the fact that skills train offline but I don't like the fact that some skills take days or even weeks to train up one level. In other games you progress according to how much you play. In this game, skillwise, you can progress and not even play or do what you are training at. There's something strange about being able to train combat skills while I go mining. Usually combat skills progress by actually being in combat. I think that's the problem most new players have with this game. It's confusing and sometimes frustrating but EVE is by far the best online game I've played. To me this is the thinking man's game.
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Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.22 22:45:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Tal Zokof
this player is 100% correct untill u have the 10m sp to run a ship in t2 gear u are completely worthless sure u can tackle in a frig but 4 t2 drones blow the **** out of u,
Ok the others say well injoy the game ok doing what running missions till our eyes bleed in empire space i can kill rats in 0.0 by the dam griefers with 50m skill pts thinks it funny to kill me, or u can mine umm thats fun every day for the next 6months
as the poster said i bet this game was fun when everyone was on even footing as it now u cant every catch up
and to the person who says avg eve player is 7m bull honky everything i info someone they are 1 to 2 yrs old and please tell me how a 2month old toon stands a chance
Um fiddle with the high slot selection in your tackler if you're having drone problems. You may still go pop but taking a couple of his T2 drones with you is going to HURT.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Asinia Au
Amarr
Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.22 23:01:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Idami Raptor
Has it occurred to anyone, that if new players are regularly leaving the game saying the same few things... that it becomes so common that you could template it...rather than everyone else in the world being wrong, they are, in fact, addressing a legitimate concern? The the fact that it IS repeated ad-nauseaum points to the fact that it's something that a lot of people see as a problem?
Has it occurred to you, that new players are the only way the game can expand and become more successful?
How about the fact that most people don't like their games dictating to them how they should be played? Or especially not other players?
Fact is, Eve is not only not newbie friendly, it is in fact newbie UNfriendly. It is a very hard game to get into, to learn how to play, to get established in.
This becomes a limiting factor on the ability of the game to grow and expand, and at some point if not corrected, to continue to exist.
This very problem and the attempts to correct it is what has all but killed Star Wars Galaxies.
Fact is, if this game is ever to be more than a very, very minor niche product like it is currently... these repeat issues need to be addressed rather than ignored.
It is true that many people see the new player "unfriendliness" as a problem. It is also true that this must be a significant factor in the reason for EVE's slow growth. And, it probably means that EVE will never compete with WoW for the MMO with the most active accounts.
But, who ever said that it should be the goal of every MMO to be the largest around? The fact is, EVE is growing while most other MMOs that have been out for a year or more are shrinking.
True, not every player that starts EVE continues long term, but some do, and those that do join those that are already here because they love EVEs unique experience.
I used to play SWG before Sony tried to change it to attract new accounts. What did they do? They tried to make it more appealing to the mass market, and killed a fantastic game as a result. What remains of SWG is now on the very low side of mediocre.
If that happens to EVE I (and I am sure, many others) would be tremendously upset.
IMO, EVS should stay on the course it is on, attract the players that like EVE, and let those that don't find a game they like better.
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