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Ankh
Angel Constellation
6
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Posted - 2011.12.14 11:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
TL:DR: CONCORD need to redraw their protectorate map, to better reflect player demographics in 2011, not 2003! Interested? read on...
Back in 2003, when everyone was a noob, the EVE map was open space for everyone. Empire space was where everyone started out, and if you wanted PvP or richer pickings for more risk, you ventured into null. Pretty much everyone travelled freely between the two, running the gank-gauntlet of choke points between the two. Everyone had to travel down the pipes to get in and out of null, and most people did!
The game has changed a lot since then. Alliances, jump-bridges, bubbles and blobbing... the list has been well documented on these forums. These have all changed the dynamic, we now have much less travel between hi-sec and null, with the player base split into stereotypes of nullers, w-holers, carebears etc.
What hasn't changed much in all that time is the sec status of systems, and the CONCORD presence in them. Some hi-sec systems have a large Concord presence, but have almost zero pod pilot's present. Other low-sec and null-sec systems have a high population, or have become busy, vital trade routes... yet with sero CONCORD presence.
So isn't it about time the officals at CONCORD redrew the map? Their precious resources should be deployed where they are needed to protect the people, not twiddling their thumbs or browsing the NeX catalogue in empty systems.
Before you all start trolling, just think about this for a minute. Vast tracks of hi-sec empire space would become either low-sec or even abandoned altogether, becoming null. In exchange, a modest number of null systems would gain a CONCORD presence... mostly trade routes, I'm guessing. Most importantly, the massive single bloc that is null would become much more accessible as the pipes are opened up through CONCORD protection... and there would be many smaller null-zones right in the middle of hi-sec space. The close proximity between null and high sec areas would dramatically increase interaction between the two, and the current cosy alliance map would have to be partially redefined.
CONCORD protected highways into null, lots of new 'rat runs' opening up, nullsec constellations in the heart of hi-sec... Sounds like a lot of fun for everyone! 
Veteran of Coalition of Free Stars Alliance (Senator) and The Big Blue.
Just because you can, doesn't make it right. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
446
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Posted - 2011.12.14 11:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
lots of work, not so much reward. |

Malcom Dax
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
10
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Posted - 2011.12.14 11:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Interesting idea. But many people would rage. Blacklight Incorporated: Recruiting now for PvP and Industry. |

Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
136
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Posted - 2011.12.14 11:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
To this point, a reactive sov system would be great, and would give eve the feeling of actually being alive.
Imagine if large numbers of suicide ganks in a system would lead to concord blockades and temporary sec boosts in that system.
Imagine if mostly unused systems gradually decayed in sec status.
Imagine if nulsec truesec changed based on alliance industry, ratting, and ihub upgrades.
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Ankh
Angel Constellation
6
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Posted - 2011.12.14 11:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:lots of work, not so much reward.
Is it really a lot of work for CCP? I was thinking a simple alogrythm, where sec status is derived from player generated statistics such as 'average number of pod-pilots in space during the last month', or something like that.
Yes, it would mean a lot of work for some players. But then that's part of the purpose, to stir things up a bit. I would imagine CONCORD would make announcements about the changes well in advance. Veteran of Coalition of Free Stars Alliance (Senator) and The Big Blue.
Just because you can, doesn't make it right. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
446
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Posted - 2011.12.14 11:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
I feel I should point out that a lot of those busy systems passing through lowsec are extremely intentional by design. Lowsec is supposed to be more profitable - lvl 5s, much better rats, faster and more direct trade routes, etc. The idea is that people actually *gasp* occasionally leave the little bubble that is highsec and experience EVE Online. |

Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
136
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:I feel I should point out that a lot of those busy systems passing through lowsec are extremely intentional by design. Lowsec is supposed to be more profitable - lvl 5s, much better rats, faster and more direct trade routes, etc. The idea is that people actually *gasp* occasionally leave the little bubble that is highsec and experience EVE Online.
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner. |

Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
446
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shivus Tao wrote:
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.
Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes - and the risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly. |

Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
242
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
oh god  |

Major Templar
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your right, Concord should redraw their lines. But I propose the other way around. Lets just remove them completely and make all of EVE 0.0 space. Yarr. 
Serious note though. No. Why? Because Null is supposed to be dragon land where anything goes. Not carebear land like Jita. Thanks. Ok. Buh bye. |
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Ankh
Angel Constellation
6
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Major Templar wrote:...Serious note though. No. Why? Because Null is supposed to be dragon land where anything goes. Not carebear land like Jita. Thanks. Ok. Buh bye.
Err, I think you missed the point. The new null would still be dragon land, exactly the same mechanics as now. Only it would be in different systems, and a lot of it will be where hi-sec is now.  Veteran of Coalition of Free Stars Alliance (Senator) and The Big Blue.
Just because you can, doesn't make it right. |

Zaine Maltis
Innsmouth Enterprises
20
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Although I like the dynamic-ness of the idea, the bit that you are missing is that it isn't just Capsuleers in Eve space. There are plenty of normals out there living in these systems and would be protected by Concord? Just because players don't go there, doesn't mean that it's just empty in game world terms. Innsmouth Enterprises
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Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
446
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ankh wrote:Other low-sec and null-sec systems have a high population, or have become busy, vital trade routes... yet with sero CONCORD presence.
Pretty sure most of these hubs would not take kindly to CONCORD passing through, and they aren't covered for a reason.
Ankh wrote: So isn't it about time the officals at CONCORD redrew the map? Their precious resources should be deployed where they are needed to protect the people, not twiddling their thumbs or browsing the NeX catalogue in empty systems.
Sounds like every police force, ever?
Ankh wrote: Vast tracks of hi-sec empire space would become either low-sec or even abandoned altogether, becoming null. In exchange, a modest number of null systems would gain a CONCORD presence... mostly trade routes, I'm guessing.
This accomplishes nothing except outraging nearly every single group of players.
Ankh wrote: The close proximity between null and high sec areas would dramatically increase interaction between the two, and the current cosy alliance map would have to be partially redefined.
They're already pretty damn close, and interaction between them is quite high, especially considering most alliances supply the majority of their hub markets with highsec goods. Alliance level production tends to be focused on fleet ships and modules.
Ankh wrote: CONCORD protected highways into null, lots of new 'rat runs' opening up
the highways already exist. and riskless high value rat runs? doesn't that kind of defeat the whole point of risk versus reward? its only the core mechanic of EVE...
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
75
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
This game has a map? I that the black screed with the colored dots and the giant text? |

DelBoy Trades
Enslave. GIANTSBANE.
84
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alot of people will troll as it's unfashionable to agree with posts like this, but I could see this, if executed properly being a refreshing change. Damn nature, you scary! |

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1472
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Posted - 2011.12.14 12:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
hullo Ankhamasenkpth
how are things in holland and how is the pirate bay party doing
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |

Sinitron
Archaic Legion.
1
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
So basically, Caldari space would become 100% high-sec and everywhere else would be even more dead than it is now. |

Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
135
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
The four empires should be devided by low sec faction warfare grounds. Concord should not hold presence there, but the militias can fight for control, where say if ammarian FW guys control it, members of the amarr militia are treated as protected by ammarian 'concord' so their haulers would be safe, but minmitar haulers were completely without protection.
All trade routes should pass through at least 1 lowsec system, but there should be multiple routes, so savy traders can take longer quieter routes, but ballsy ones could take the shorter route, and run the pie gauntlet. This should better distribute the pies, and make more fun for everyone.
People unwilling to risk their freighter through lowsec, could stop one freighter just before the lowsec run, courier their gear through the lowsecs in cloakies, then continue on their merry way.
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |

Xtover
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
30
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Shivus Tao wrote:To this point, a reactive sov system would be great, and would give eve the feeling of actually being alive.
Imagine if large numbers of suicide ganks in a system would lead to concord blockades and temporary sec boosts in that system.
Imagine if mostly unused systems gradually decayed in sec status.
Imagine if nulsec truesec changed based on alliance industry, ratting, and ihub upgrades.
I've been pushing this for years. Sec status on the empire border systems should be dynamic.
Pirate missions should be opened in lowsec, and concord missions to oppose them. They help to raise and lower the sec status of a system but also factor in other things as well (population average, other NPC kills, FW) |

Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
337
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
A more eve(olving) universe would be nice, to be fair CCP has in the past changed system status and gatelinks so I assume its not totally off the table.
It would be hard to have such a big change as you propose though. I would hope that as the game evolves even more some regions like FW and low sec would get a mechanism that would enhance and/or destroy sec status over a long period of time based on all kinds of meterics/events/incursions/conquest/concord intervention. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
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Valei Khurelem
Viziam Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Malcom Dax wrote:Interesting idea. But many people would rage.
Perfect! Lets put the plan into action! |

Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
314
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Creating a dynamic system for Eve would be the "shake up" this game desperately needs. However this would be pointless, until low-sec actually becomes something unique and worth wild. Otherwise it would just **** everyone off. |

Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
135
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Also anyone that is interested in a revitalisation of lowsec, should head over to mittens blog at ten ton, he actually has a few good ideas about lowsec revitalistion.
All we can do at the moment, is hope that seeing as CCP has appeased the nullbears and HI-bears for the last patches, that the next major content patch will be lowsec focused. And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |

Prince Kobol
90
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.
Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes, and I know people who went from basically broke to flying a brand new carrier in just under 2 weeks. The risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly.
Yet many null sec peeps state this is the opposite...
Did you ask your Goons Masters for permission before you posted? |

Azro Zora
The Hatchery Team Liquid
0
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:
Except lowsec is the opposite of that. The rats are not "better enough" compared to level 4's to justify the risk of ganks. There are only a handful of systems dedicated for gud fites, even there it's a miracle when it's actually a good fight and not a bait and blob. Trade in the state of eve is a very small nice, and anyone that does trade runs through lowsec regularly likely does so in a blockade runner.
Trust me, the farther out you go, the more profitable it gets. Out in null it can get ridiculous, I can make what I did in a day of lvl 4s in maybe 15-20 minutes, and I know people who went from basically broke to flying a brand new carrier in just under 2 weeks. The risk of ganks is always tiny if you are actually aware of your surroundings and know how to react properly.
so you went from beeing really terrible to just beeing really bad. ic |

Taint
A Pack Of Wolfes
19
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Posted - 2011.12.14 13:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Like this idea :) |

VaMei
Meafi Corp
75
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Posted - 2011.12.14 14:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Major Templar wrote:Your right, Concord should redraw their lines. But I propose the other way around. Lets just remove them completely and make all of EVE 0.0 space. Yarr. 
My 1st reaction was the same; we need less Concord not more. Even a diehard carebear should know that Pew-Pew and Yarr!! is the engine that drives the economy. When players stop blowing things up and getting blown up, they stop buying goods to replace what has been lost. When that happens, the carebear is out of a job.
But on thinking a bit more, if it was limited only to Empire space, I could see a system of dynamic system security ratings as an interesting mechanic. Done in conjunction with dynamic agent rewards (over utilized agents give lower rewards, while unused agents give greater rewards), it could be very interesting and would reward players for spreading out rather than following the herd.
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
161
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Posted - 2011.12.14 14:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ankh wrote:Major Templar wrote:...Serious note though. No. Why? Because Null is supposed to be dragon land where anything goes. Not carebear land like Jita. Thanks. Ok. Buh bye. Err, I think you missed the point. The new null would still be dragon land, exactly the same mechanics as now. Only it would be in different systems, and a lot of it will be where hi-sec is now.  Well... and the activity in NPC "zero" sec would potentially lead to an increase in security level eventully allow for much better mining and ratting under CONCORD protection. The proposed system works both ways. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |

ovenproofjet
The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated
29
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Posted - 2011.12.14 14:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Smells of Carebeaer wanting another suicide ganking nerf. By the logic presented systems like Niarja, popular for ganking because of 0.5 sec and high traffic, would loose their "charm"  |

Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
2
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Posted - 2011.12.14 15:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
ovenproofjet wrote:Smells of Carebeaer wanting another suicide ganking nerf. By the logic presented systems like Niarja, popular for ganking because of 0.5 sec and high traffic, would loose their "charm" 
That bit of the suggestion does make sense though. You'd expect Concord to react and protect key trade routes and player traffic would establish it. |
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